As many of you know, david boaz, ive been here a long time. I want to remind you that well be taking question both from people here in the audience and from people watching online. And the online audience may the conversation and submit questions directly on the event page or on facebook or youtube web or on twitter using hashtag tag keto events and hopefully all of those questions will come directly to me on this ipad. And if you are asking question in here, please speak directly and clearly into the microphone so everybody can hear you here and online. A lot of my colleagues these days prefer to events in interview but im Old Fashioned and i think when an author has spent years becoming the worlds leading expert on a topic id rather give him a few minutes to tell us what he thinks is important about what hes discovered. So thats what going to do before we take questions and we two outstanding scholars to hear from. It would be presumptive of me to say much about a hike in the presence of Bruce Caldwell and Deirdre Mccloskey, but ill just set the stage a bit. Hayek is best known as a recipient of the nobel prize in economics, or maybe as a distinguished senior fellow of the Cato Institute. But i think that understates the depth breadth of his scholarly work. Lawrence h. Summers, hayek, the author of the single most important thing learn from an economics course today, and Milton Friedman, him as the most important social thinker of the 20th century. John wrote in the new yorker that on the Biggest Issue of all the vitality of, he was vindicated to such an extent that it is hardly an exaggeration to refer to the 20th century as the hayeks. I wrote a few ago hayek was more than just an economist. He published impressive works on political psychology and the methodology of the social sciences. Hes like marx, only right . And with that ill introduce our distinguished speakers and get off the stage. Or technically put down my microphone. Bruce caldwell is Research Professor of economic ics at Duke University and director of the center for the history of political economy. He may be the greatest hayek scholar. He has the general editor of the collected works of f. A. Hayek, which has just been completed after more than 20 years. He is the author of hayeks challenge, an intellectual rule biography of f. A. Hayek. And hes here today because. He is the coauthor of the new fall biography hayek, a life. Though it was a life of such accomplishment that this is only the first of two volumes after he discusses the biography, well hear from Deirdre Mccloskey. And speaking of interdisciplinary scholarship, deirdre is the distinguished scholar isaiah chair in liberal thought at the Cato Institute and professor emerita economics and of history and professor emerita of english and of communication at the university of illinois at, chicago. She previously taught at the university of chicago and the university of iowa, and she is the author of some 24 books, perhaps most notably her bourgeois bourgeois virtues virtue, bourgeois dignity and bourgeois equality, and recently why liberalism works, how liberal values produce fairer, freer, more equal, prosperous world all. Please welcome Bruce Caldwell. David. Im delighted to be here and delighted to be joined on the podium by dear friend deirdre. So what to say as introduction to this book . I cant give you a summary of hayeks life in 20 minutes, given that the book took me ten years to to write. So what i thought id do is just start by my first of all say, why do we need book on hayek . Because indeed there are a number of other works on hayek, including one that that i that i wrote myself. And i think the best way to explain this is i am the general editor of the collected works of hayek. And i became in 2002, i was invited by the second general editor, steven kresge to take over for him. And i said, yes. I mean, this sounds like a wonderful opportunity to get to know more about this person whose work i was already quite interested in. And he said, well, but theres a catch, youll have to be vetted and approved by the hayek family. And i said, okay, okay. I can i can be charming, persuasive, perhaps find out anyway. So i went to devon in england where larry hayek had his home and christine hayek. So his family was his is his son, his daughter. She lived in london. She went down there to to meet me. And i was just blown away by this this introduction into his actual family. Christine hayek was was immediately charmed me completely. I mean, she i said, well, tell me something about your father and and she said, i barely knew the man she rears back and just he was the professor in the study. And i said, oh, my goodness, no, but she goes on and of course, tells me lots and lots and lots of stories about her father and her interaction with her father and his interaction with people that that she knew. And then she left. And larry came to the house and we had another long conversation. And i actually spent the night there. They said, well, lets have dinner. And you spend the night here. And the next day he took me up to his study and. His study was filled with hierarchy, ian memorabilia. Ill just give you a few. First of all, his these are skis that no person who skis today would recognize as skis. Basic he was one of the first out of skiing of type of downhill skiing that that think of as skiing is kind of more or less invented. Back at the time when he was boy and he just bought some skis of the type that would be available then and and he got a manual taught himself how to ski. That was one of the things there was a photographic collection. I said, what this . Well, when he was 16, he would accompany his father was who was a plant geographer would be kind of the way he would be described today. There wouldnt be a description back then, but he would he would accompany his father to various places in the austrian alps and surrounding areas and identify new species or what they thought were new species. And he would take photographs for his father. Each one of these was, you know, to carefully labeled, put into into place. There are a bunch of maps. And i said, what are these maps from . And i figured they were maps that he used when. He was either a skier, he was also an alpinist. He was a mountain climber. Turns out i find out now these maps were the maps that he was using as an artillery during world war one on the italian. So these are all the maps that that he had kept from that. So there was also lots of intellectual sorts of materials in the library and i just i between the interaction with the people and the recognition that there was all this material that had not been in, you know, i was an intellectual historian eminently historian, but i had an i had never i liked reading biographies but had never attempted to would even think about attempting to write one. Well, i was just so taken by the amount of material that was there and and there, there openness and willingness to, to talk it. And it only got better. They shared lots of family correspondence with me. Theres interesting stories behind each one of these things that ill just mention a sentence. There were interviews that bill bartley, who was the first general editor, had that his partner, stephen gave me. There was chriss own materials that he released slowly, surely to me. And i did interviews with larry. He died in 2004, but i did multiple interviews with christine, who became really, in a sense, a close friend, as well as someone who was who i was going to be writing about. One of my favorite times was we went to turner close, which is where they lived for 20 years in london. It was in a very now a very nice area near the Hampstead Heath garden, hampstead garden suburbs and. She hadnt been there for 50 years. This is the place that she grew up as a child. She would point out, oh, well, you know, the trees have grown up and theres a church over there that we used to be able to see the clock and no when it was time to come in and just being there with her and asking her questions in that environment was was very rich because she started to remember things that i think probably would have been difficult to remember. If you just say, well, tell about your childhood, you know, so we we have a lot of material. And what we what we tried to do with the book was to make it both a biography, but also blending that his intellectual contributions. So really putting and as as his Institution Building sorts of contribution so were were really trying to cover the the entire map thats why its such a thick book. If you if youve seen it out there and at the the emphasis would be, first of all that his was a 20th century life. He grew up and and and lived in extreme lonely, Interesting Times in terms of both whats going on in the world, but also whats going on in the economics profession. So he he grew up in fantastically austria he fought in world war one. Americans think of world war one as the, you know, the western front. Well, he he fought on the italian front where over a Million People died. It a fascinating to learn about the various episodes that took place during his war period. He got the spanish flu. Here we are in covid times they. He survived it. He got malaria and gets back to austria and the austrohungarian empire gets gets up. The Russian Revolution takes place. He sees sasha and antisemitism of various varieties emerging in various strange. We have a whole chapter on varieties of antisemitism that existed Central Europe during this period. Mean it was, you know, just doing this work. I learned a lot, all of which was very pleasant. But yeah, fascisms a Great Depression world war two, the the, the rise of the welfare immediately following world war two. All of these various episodes and this is just in, in, in this volume one. Volume one is 1899 to 1950. It 1950. He moved to the university of chicago not quite so close sorry so. We had one person who said we i didnt realize he he he died so early and i said, oh no, this is just volume one. Its just volume one. So the other thing that i wanted to emphasize is that we tried to place him in in time and place in the context of the people that he interacted with. One of the things about about hayek is as a figure to study is that he interacted with everyone. The Austrian School of economics people, people at the London School of economics, a Lionel Robbins and a whole host of people who are in robbins grand in the 1930s, when hayek was there, this was a this was a place where a lot of the, uh, the formalism of what we, what intermediate price theory and intermediate macroeconomics was developed. So he was on hand when this stuff was being developed. Of course there were his famous battles with the with various types of socialists as well as with John Maynard Keynes in the 1930. So we get to all of those stories up at the montpellier in society she founded in 1947. He this brought together all of the liberals, all of the most famous liberals of the 20th century were most of them were at that meeting. And those who werent were people who he had invited, but they werent able to come but ultimately became members. And just looking at the interactions, these people, one of the one of the side projects that came out this doing this book was another book with the Hoover Institution press on the very first meeting of the Mont Pelerin Society in 47. And its a transcript of what took place at the meeting. Not a verbatim transfer script, but gives you a sense of sorts of things that were being discussed at a very, very fraught time. Mean europe in 1947 was in is in horrible situation when it was still occupied. There was four zones of occupation through much of europe as they were trying to resolve what what was going to happen going forward. And that was the context in which they they had this meeting, important meeting, where they were saying what what would liberalism for the the postwar 20th century look like. So i have so many things to say about and what i should probably do at this point is just shut up and see if theres any questions. Its when we get to the q a and. That would probably be a better way to to deal with it. So thank you. For. Thank you, Bruce Deirdre mccloskey. Well, ill be brief, but youve heard professors say that before. That was a charming. Vignette. I think the thats an excellent. Entry way to this this fascinating book. I only came to hayek very late in my academic career. I was like so many people in that. In that 20th century where i started as a socialist, the old joke is that if youre not a socialist when youre 16, you have no heart, youre still a socialist. At 26, you have no and i just made it on both counts, but i didnt turn to austrian economics as i thought of hayek as being or understand not much about him really. The 1990s, as late as that. And it the key point that i got from the book book was what do we mean by being a liberal person work when were talking earlier and we we said we dont agree we we think we should take back the word liberal and perhaps put on the shelf the word. Libertarian and surely neo liberal or liberal. Those all need to go. We to get back to the l word and whats plain about hayek is that hes not a man of dogma. I mean, he hes accused of being a conservative. And he has a famous essay, if i had an as an appendix to the constitutional liberty, which is why i am not a conservative and he wasnt a conservative of a conservative. It would be someone who thinks about known past and admires it and wants to get back or to hold on to some or all of its and a progressive or a socialist is someone who looks forward to an imagined future. You often hear our friends. Our friends on the left, and i still have friends in the left who say, well, you, i want to be on right side of history. And i seem to know what the right side of history was in the 1940s at the end of this book, everyone thought that socialism was inevitable and this tiny group around hayek and he was very much at the heart of this, said, no, we think maybe theres theres hope for for saving a free society. So he was neither a conservative nor a progressive or a socialist. And then it shows in his School Career and his university career, he he founded a group when he was at the u. University of havana, which they called the la the geist crisis everything in vienna, all meetings were were crisis that is circles and their main principle was that they werent going to choose between catholics and or protestants they werent going to choose between socialists and conservatives. They werent going to choose between austrians and germans or austrians and whoever they were going to admit and encourage and intellectual girls interaction. Anyone who didnt want to belong to of those tribes. So it was against the tribalism which is so vivid these days in our politics here in the United States where you choose up your sports team and youre either a or a gop maga or a socialist, and youre wrong. And i think thats the core of modern liberalism since the 18th sense. Everyone came to be rather suddenly in france originally and then in scotland and britain and holland in this. 17th century. The the idea that neither were now here is the key point neither a masterful state with Central Planning nor a self and self indulgent individual is how society works. Hi, its great discovery or rediscovery, you might say was the invisible hand of adam smith. It was that most of our institutions, most of our life, our Economic Life is in between. Its not macro and micro. Its messel. Its the spontaneous orders, as he would say, of human interaction, as in the german language, which is not planned by anyone. And i cant just say, well, now im going use the word, for christs sake. Now crisis is the word. Youre youre stuck with it. And, and most so social institutions. So the the side of the french enlightenment or the the characteristically french side of the enlightenment is the reason side. And he didnt believe in a unaided human reason and that sense that sense he shared was people like edmund burke, a conservative, but he also he also didnt believe in the corresponding french idea of rousseau and so forth that private property the problem and we need to crush it and centrally plan on the contrary he believed all through his life in in the liberty side of the enlightenment which what you see in france but its especially obvious in adam smith and david hume and of the scottish enlightenment so oh i came to hayek late. Hes had a tremendous influence. Me and i highly recommend this book because hell have an influence on you. Thank you, deirdre. Well the florida questions. Now, as i said online you can submit questions a variety of ways facebook youtube, hashtag keto events. And here in the auditorium raise your hand and we will bring a microphone to you all right right there in the back. Thank you. Bert ely. Before proposing my question, i just want to mention that i had the pleasure of the time that i came to cato and i came here, what year was david . But i may probably not long before he died, but it was a real pleasure. And i still think back it of hearing the man himself speak as he did to cato that day. My question is, is this to what extent did hayek get into monetary manners and monetary theory in the Banking System and finance and just looking through the index, i didnt see references to that. And i was wondering if thats the theory he just didnt get into or it something youll address in the second book . No he actually started his intellectual career with a book called monetary theory in the trade cycle, so he interacted with keynes on their respective models of of of, you know, in hayeks case, it was a it was a theory of a capital using monetary economy. And his critique of keynes was that keynes had left out the capital theory. So his his early work in monetary theory and if its not clear from the table contents, it will be when. You look at the sections on his work in the late twenties and the early thirties, he continued, having an interest in that througho