Would do such a thing. Thank you. Thank you all so much. Great questions. Appreciate you coming. Im happy to sign any books you may have. Youve been watching American History tv on cspan3. We to want hear from you. Follow us on Twitter Twitter cspanhistory. Connect with us on facebook at facebook. Com cspanhistory where you can leave comments. Check out upcoming programs on our website, cspan. Org history. Every sunday at 6 p. M. And 10 p. M. Eastern, a look at american artifacts. Travel with cspan to historic sites, museums and archives to learn what artifacts reveal about American History. American artifacts every sunday at 6 p. M. And 10 p. M. Eastern here on American History tv on cspan3. And the 114th Congress Gavels in on tuesday at noon eastern. Well see the swearingin of members and the election of the house speaker. Watch the house live on cspan and the senate live on cspan2. And with the new congress youll have the best access on the cspan networks with the most extensive coverage anywhere. Track the gop as it leads on capitol hill and have your say as events unfold on tv, radio and the web. For 17 years, the unabomber mailed homemade bombs that targets airliners, universities and killing 23 and injuries 24 others. A panel of former fbi agents and coauthor of the book unabomber talked about the investigation and explained how the fbi changed its methods to capture suspect Ted Kaczynski. This talk was sponsored by the museum. Its about an hour. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name is craig floyd. Im the chairman and ceo of National Officers memorial fund. I want to welcome you all here today to the museums witness to history, investigating the unabomber, the tenth in our series of witness events. Generously sponsored by our friends from target, who join us here in the front row, as well as in partnership today with the museum, our host. Ill turn things over to john maynard in just a moment from the museum for moderation of todays event. I want to thank you all for coming. Today is a glorious day outside. The fact you would want to spend an hour or two here with us thats extra special. And i thank you for taking the time to join us. I think youre in for just a fascinating discussion here in just a moment. I[i also want to thank our friends from cspan who tend to cover many of these witness to history events. Theyre with us once again today. Theyll be sharing this on air over the coming weeks. For those of you who may not be familiar with the National Law Enforcement officers memorial fund, our organization, a little background. We remember formed in 1984 by congressman mary biage a former new York City Police officer and police legend. He is actually the author of the legislation to establish the National Law Enforcement memorial, our first major initiative. We dedicated that memorial in 1991. It sits just a couple of blocks from here andn judiciary scare the 400 block of e street northwest washington. On the walls of that memorial are the names of 20,267 federal state, local tribal and territorial Law Enforcement professionals who have given their lives in the line of duty. Our latest initiative is to establish a National Law Enforcement museum. Weve been working on this now since 2000 when congress authorized our organization to build the first ever National Law Enforcement museum. Weve been working on it ever since. That museum will open in just a few years from now in a place again, called judiciary square, right across the street from the national memorial. But in many ways our museum already exists. Weve collected 17,000 artifacts. Fascinating artifacts of Law Enforcement history that will help us tell that story. And weve also produced a number of educational and public programming events of which witness to history is part of that. This afternoon is certainly a good example. We bring together Law Enforcement professionals, experts, who were involved in some of the most famous criminal cases in American History. And today we bring together a group of experts who work so diligently and for so long on the unabomber investigation. One of the longest manhunts in american Law Enforcement history. And i want to just thank once again our friends from target for sponsoring todays event and all of our witness to history events. I now would like to turn our program over to john maynard, who will moderate todays program. John, please join us here. Thank you craig. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. And those of you watching on cspan. Welcome to the museums night studio and welcome to the museum, the unabombers cabin. For nearly two decades beginning in 1978 an i will loses ive criminal sent homemade bombs that targeted universities, airlines and computer stores, killing three people and injuring 23 others. The fbi branded him the unabomber and despite an investigation that spanned eight states and involved about 500 agents the fbi was flummoxed. 35,000word manifesto written by the unabomber whose real name was Ted Kaczynski, proved a turning event and brought an end of reign. Before the manifesto the investigation was hampered by bureaucracy, institutional pride, professional jealousies and some egos. Today we talk to three fbi agents to bring fi naturalty to the case by cutting through the cumbersome procedures of the investigation and breaking free of bureaucratic restraint. Their new book unabomber how the fbi broke its own rules to capture Ted Kaczynski details the investigation into the unabomber how these three worked in the agency. Jim freeman to my left was the special agent in charge of the multiagency unabomb investigation. He began his career as a special agent with the fbi in 1964 with assignments in Oklahoma City, los angeles and miami. And in 1993 assigned a special agent in charge of the San Francisco division. Following the unabomber investigation he returned from the fbi in 1996, retired from the fbi in 1996, and he joined charles schwab. Just recently retired as senior vp of global security. Max knoll ultimately became special agent supervisor of expand task force and ultimately concentrating on monday upon. He served as an fbi agent for 30 years and worked on numerous highprofile investigations including the weather underground, the Pattie Hearst kidnapping and the disappearance of jimmy hoffa. He rye tireetired from the fbi in 1999. Terry turchie between 1994 and 1998 on an operational level. Following the unabomber case he became inspector and led the task force in the hunt for olympic bomber eric rudolph. In 1999 he was named Deputy Assistant in the new Counterterrorism Division of the fbi and traveled extensively overseas to investigate International Terrorism in the middle east and in the former soviet union. I should also note in the book, jim writes that terry is the only fbi agent he knows who got into a fight with a russian spy. When he wrestled a kgb agent to the ground on a brooklyn subway platform in 1986. So, please welcome our panel. If youre treating todays conversation, please use the museums handle which is museum and National Law Enforcement handle which is nleomf. Jim, lets start with you. All three of you are listed as coauthors but the book is told from your perspective. Tell us how the book came together and what was your Main Objective for the book. Well thank you for your kind comments, introducing the three of us. I want to point out we represent dozens of fbi agents and atf agents and officers of the u. S. Postal inspection service, who all made a made worked together for the task force the last three years. You might imagine how many individuals and how much work went into such a project. The book came about in a very similar way to how the investigation came about those last two years. When i had volunteered i was the only volunteer ever for the Unabomb Task Force after 16 years of inability to find him. I volunteered because i was in San Francisco, and thats where the task force had been set up. So i wanted to take a shot at catching Ted Kaczynski. The investigation required that i look for a team that would bring together a Strategic Plan. And terry was where i went. He was in the San Francisco office. He was a supervisor of National Intelligence matters in the palo alto agency. I decided i wanted a different i wanted to shake it up. After 16 years what else could i do but shake it up . In the fbi theres that time a wall between the National Intelligence service and criminal Investigative Service for various reasons. I wanted to take advantage of the synergy of that in preparing a Strategic Plan and executing it. The book came together the same way. It was a matter of the three of us represent a unique perspective in the way the case was managed. We wrote it in that manner. We didnt want to write a book that stood on its own as our own creation. We wanted to just do a definitive description of the investigation, which was very complex and had over the years had not been appropriately described in any of the books that had been written about the unabomb case or mostly centered on Ted Kaczynski. Can he wrote the book to center on the investigation. Terry and max, i will ask you both, tell us about your reaction when you were asked to join this newly formed task force. I was stunned. I was very happy in palo alto. Any of you familiar with california know thats a nice place to be. We had an office across from stanford. I was settled for the rest of my career, at least i thought until jim had this bizarre idea that he was going to solve the un unabomb. I got a call one day. He said, i have a couple questions to ask you. How do you feel about coming up to the city and taking over the Unabomb Task Force . Jim is putting together a different structure and is interested in you doing that. My response was to laugh and say, thats funny, but thanks for the offer, but no thanks. So there was a pause. He said, im actually not joking. And then i didnt know what to say. Everybody tried to stay away from the corridor in the San Francisco office where they had signs that said unabomb. No one wanted to go near there. I said, i think i would need a lot of time to close up everything down here and get up there. And he said, how much time do you need . I said proibbably i need a month. He said, how about a couple of hour hours . Nothing went right until i met jim in the office and realized he was very very serious and maybe we had a chance to do things differently. Max, tell us about your enrollment . I was already on the task force. I saw jims taking over the task force and reconfiguring it and bringing terry in as an opportunity to leave the task force and go back to what i did best. And i submitted a memorandum to jim to that effect saying, please, let me go back and do what i was doing before, which was organized crime and asian organized crime work. Unfortunately, terry and jim had other ideas. Terry convinced me that i needed to stay. He went in and saw jim. Jim said, i know he wants off but hes not going. So i stayed. Jim, for maybe some of our younger visitors, give us a brief overview of the unabomber. What were some of his targets and some of his motives as we later learned . Thats what made it difficult to identify a suspect was because the unabomber became very clear early on had to be a lone wolf. He was not talking to anyone, or else something would have come to light in less than 16 17 years. His early targets were against University Professors, graduate students, bombs sent through the mail to specific professors as well as bombs placed in the corridor outside of computer Room University of utah. That was repeated in other locations as well university of california at berkeley. Then there was early on, i think his third bombing was against American Airlines flight, a mailed bomb was placed on there with a rigged altimeter that was a barometer was used and rigged to be an altimeter to explode at a certain altitude. It did detonate. It did ignite a fire but it didnt explode. It saved the lives of all the people on that plane. Even so, the pilot recognized that smoke was coming into the cabin and he did an Emergency Landing saving peoples lives. Airline and universities were the early targets. So the fbi has a propensity for acronyms. It became unabomb and it was a moniker that stuck. I will ask you again, jim, for both max and terry when did you realize that this was a case you would have to adjust the normal protocol and the subtitle of the week is how the fbi broke its own rules. Go through some of those rules. Well we actually had a meeting in jims office. One of the first things it he wanted was a strategy. He wasnt very clear on exactly what he wanted but he knew he wanted it to be out of the box and really something we hadnt tried before. Really made the impression that we want to solve this case. Were not just doing this for some process or to kind of babysit here until someone else comes along. Were all here in San Francisco and were going to stay here until we do this. I went away. I talked to max. Max and i had a number of meetings over the next week and met with just about everybody that was on the task force. And talked to them about what they thought our lacking some of our failings were as far as what we had overlooked before and how we might do this in a different way. It became apparent that we needed a Different Organization and structure and then we needed things that come with that. So at the end of a week i gave jim a paper. It said, here is what i think we should do based upon everybody i talked to and their input. Number one we had kind of a morale issue. A lot of people did want to get off the task force. They had worked hard. They had been there a long time. They were tired. To try to deal with that, it was kind of simple. I recommended to jim that we have People Choose a partner. I know when you watch tv everybody works with a partner. Thats not necessarily the way it is in real life. So we had a meeting. We told everybody whether its an fbi and atf agent or postal inspector and atf agent, have people get together, choose a partner. And you will be with this person for a long long time. That way when you have a down day, probably your partner will have an up day. You guys will be more creative working together like this. That was the biggest thing we did to make a difference in the internal mechanism of how things would operate. Then all the more complicated things made several suggestions. We needed to have a media component built into the strategy to use the media to get to the public. Eventually, we would have things and a specific message to tell the public. We needed a significant analytical capability that was integrated into the investigation that up until that time we just didnt have. Third, we needed to deal with the issue of profiling. Again, you probably watched shows like criminal minds and that type of thing. It doesnt happen in real life like on tv or in a couple of hour movie. So we needed to look differently there. We chose different people to work with us on the profiling. We will get into that in a while. Those are the essence of what i passed along to jim that was really the sum total of what many of the agents and analysts we had had told me during the interviews. You mentioned the media. Its a natural question for me to ask, but as we were discussing earlier, the fbi does play it close to the vest when it comes to media. What was the advantage in this case for you to shift the strategy to be more media friendly . We knew right away that we needed to have a consistent message to take to the public. We also had to have a consistent spokesperson. So we decided to recommend to jim that he be our spokesperson. Not fbi headquarters, not all the others that had a hand in it but jim because jim would always be sitting with us and would have the latest information that we were going to be getting coming from the reinvestigations that max was very much involved in. We wanted to give a consistent message to the public. Over time what we ended up doing, long before even we got the manifesto in 1995 was we started go being to the public with one message, and that was when you think about the unabomber, think about chicago between 1978 and 1980 then think about salt lake city, because between 1980 and about 1982 or 83, that seemed to be the focus of where there was a connection for the unabomber. And then after that time frame, from 1985 and on, think of the San Francisco bay area. Put those three things together and then eventually im going to defer to max to talk about the composite. That became a significant part of the message. Chicago, salt lake and the San Francisco bay area and the composite. By 1995 we got the manifesto. When all those pieces came together, we went back out to the public through jim with the message. We really, i think got what we were looking for. I will go back to that composite. Its a fascinating story of the investigation as well. I will jump