Transcripts For CSPAN3 Aviation 20240705 : comparemela.com

Hearing lasts an hour and 45 minutes. Were a couple minutes but will get started. The subcommittee on safety aviation will come to order. I want to welcome everyone to our hearing today addressing close calls to improve aviation safety. This may be the most important hearing we have all year and i want to thank chair cat well, Ranking Member cruz and moran in their help to making this hearing happen. The near misses weve been seeing recently are not normal and are a warning our Aviation System is under stress. And today we will have an opportunity to hear from several Key Stakeholders about why were experiencing so many near misses and what we need to do to increase our safety margins. Well hear from National Transportation safety chairwoman jennifer hamady, chief operational officer tim worrell and rich santa, Airline Pilots association, captain jason ambrossy and former administrator randy back out. While disagreements tend to garner more coverage than compromise, its worth noting i remain proud of the biden reauthorization act we introduced together and remain committed to finding a path forward to passage. Since in any nonbiased opinion, the cantwell crew is far superior than the alternative. Safety Must Come First and why i say this may be the most important aviation hearing i hold this year. Our nation is experiencing an aviation safety crisis. Near misses are happening way too frequently and i refuse to be complacent in waiting to act until the next runway incursion becomes a fatal conclusion. A wave of buyouts drained the United States Aviation System and coupled with a surge in demand created essentially a perfect storm that took the safety margins down to a unsafe level. In far too many near misses, the difference between a close call and deadly disaster has depended on a single individual taking Emergency Action along with some good luck. According to the new york times, in a recent 12month period, there were 300 accounts of near collisions involving commercial carriers, thats almost one near miss per day so far. I think weve got some images behind us here. The darker image is a video of a individual riding in the jump seat of a jetblue flight landing at boston airport and shows a hopper jet charter flight crossing the runway about to land on and shows how the plane came within 400 feet of the jet crossing in front of them while taking off superan intersecting runway. Despite that hopper jet receiving instructions to line up and wait. Logan airport installed a surface system that notified air Traffic Control when the charter flight began its unauthorized takeoff roll and this layer of safety was critical in empowering the controller to provide jetblue with the go round instructions that diverted disaster. That same month at Austin Bergstrom airport we witnessed how the lack of equipment drastically shows the catastrophe. A worker working on an overtime shift cleared the plane to run on the southwest 737 had been cleared to take off from. It was foggy in the early hours and the controller could not see the runway with its own eyes or see the runway and was on the ground when the other plane went through the clouds. 131 souls came close to dying that day. The following animation demonstrates what it looks like when a 757 comes within 100 feet of a landing 737. These two aircraft came within 100 feet of another. And a. T. C. Did not see how close those came and it was the pilot who called for the goaround and initiated his own goaround and told the other aircraft that he notified the other aircraft that they almost came in contact with one another and the air Traffic Controller never saw it. The air Traffic Controller also was on an overtime shift. Unfortunately, the near misses keep happening. Last month an Alaska Airlines flight executive flight executing a goaround in oregon veered into a flight path taking off from a parallel runway. The f. A. A. Congress and Aviation Industry must treat these near misses as precursor events if left unchecked will result in a deadly catastrophe. We have many layers of safety in our Aviation System. The first layer is the pilot controller readback and the second layer is the airport designs and markings. Next is a runway safety lights that turn red when the runway is active alerting a crossing pilot to not cross. In ideal situations, the fourth layer is a ground radar tool. And of course the last line of defense lies with the flight crew, especially the captain and first officer. Despite multiple layers of safety its come to the last line of defense. And the bottom line, pilots take Emergency Actions to save lives is either a broken system or one overwhelmed by new risks. Such new risk could be the aggregate loss of experience and forces the industry to confront a work force overall thats less experienced from pilots to controllers to technicians and other personnel. It appears weve been fortunate to have experienced pilots in many of these instances who prevented a close call from becoming a disaster but continuing to count on such good fortune is neither sustainable nor responsible. I hope well hear more from this about our witnesses. The one thing we already know now is not the time to weaken or water down the postcovid era Safety System. Now is the time to strengthen it. This includes prioritizing one of the most vital pillars of our aviation Safety System, air Traffic Control. Look, every air Traffic Controller has the privilege and pressure of working in a road thats inherently stressful even on a good day. That reality is no excuse for our current status quo which forces controllers to regularly work 60hour weeks because an estimated 99 of airports are understaffed. In addition to many airports lacking important runway technology, as both a pilot and passenger i refuse to accept the status quo that places the lives of our constituents in the hands of Civil Servants that are overworked and utterly exhausted. More than a decade ago the aviation established a new pilot rest rule. This aligned with a growing body of language shows optimizing performance, you need rest and recovery. The stakes could not be higher for a. T. C. F. A. A. Prioritizes the problem of fatigued controllers and Congress Wants to ensure a. T. C. Staffing levels are sufficient to end once and for all the error of controllers to work regularly 60 hours per week and often without the benefit of Vital Safety Technology and tools. I look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today how we can enhance safety and get our margins back to where they need to be. I recognize now Ranking Member moran for his opening statement. Representative moran thank you for your cooperation and working with me and others to see this subcommittee and whole committee accomplishes its task in regard to aviation. The f. A. A. Manages one of the worlds most complex Aviation Systems, in fact the most complex Aviation System that overseas more than 44,000 flights a day and almost three Million Airline passengers. Safety is so important. But it is an evolving process and we must continually reevaluate our system to make sure we have the most safe possible in play. We must determine how to prevent certain instances like runway incursions and near misses so im pleased to join you in having this hearing and we need to ensure these incidents are not indicative of a underlying issue. We know the demand for aviation is expected to grow and we have new entrants into our airspace. F. A. A. Is directly involved in 1. 5 million jobs and 1. 5 trillion in g. D. P. In the worlds economy. Our job is determine the pressure points on our system now so it can be ready to meet the demands not only today but in the future. Dangerous incidents also further highlight the need for congress to pass f. A. A. Reauthorization. Im pleased and agree with you we have a bill thats worthy of action by the full committee and action from the United States senate and looking forward so seeing it does. Earlier we confirmed an f. A. A. Administrators, one of the most important tasks we could do and also one of the basic roles of the United States senate. Im pleased the administration nominated and the United States Senate Confirmed a new f. A. A. Administrator we look forward to working with and have faith he will perform his task well. I do hope we get out of the series of reauthorizations weve had in years past and look forward to a long term reauthorization of the f. A. A. The f. A. A. In my view is at a critical juncture and perhaps that could be said at many times in our countrys history but we face many challenges and the f. A. A. Is front and center and ought to do everything in our power to ensure the United States remain as leader in Aerospace Innovation and in everything we do, we do it safely. Thank you, chairwoman. Ms. Duckworth i want to turn it over to ms. Cantwell for her opening remarks. Ms. Cantwell thank for you your comments and senator moran for this important hearing. I cant think of two People Better prepared to lead the safety charge and aviation charge on our committee than the two of you so thank you for doing this hearing and i so agree with both of your comments. I think you outlined exactly why were here this morning, that it is a constant task to be on top of innovation and safety and competitiveness. I want to thank the witnesses for being here, too, because i think that they are very illuminating of the challenges we face in the past and how we met them and thank them today. The safety accountability act outlines new ways to improve safety and one of those was to basically say we should have a trend report every year to better listen to some of the safety trends. This hearing this morning is really a reflection of thatits about what were doing and what we can do to fix it. I want to applaud the ntsb on the near misses and think theyve sounded the alarm and think youre sounding it again today and one of the reasons why, as senator moran said, is we need to get an f. A. A. Authorization bill because we have tools in this bill that will help us meet that challenge. First and foremost, ntsb director hamady is saying in her testimony for controllers weve cited staffing shortages and fatigue, lack of or deficient supervisory oversight, distraction, ineffective scanning, and the need for valueadded training. Thats an end quote there, a summation of hers. That is why we need the additional f. A. A. Air Traffic Controllers that are in the f. A. A. Bill of over 3,000 people to help us meet this balance. We cannot have people working six days a week. We need people who have the ample amount of rest and capability to deal with, as my colleague senator duckworth said, probably one of the most stressful and challenging jobs there is. Secondly, i think she also outlines correctly the important attributes of the air surface detection Equipment Program which is the ground radar and Electronic Technology that allows controllers to Craft Movement of vehicles and in the airports where we have this technology, guess what . Things have worked well. The areas where we havent, this is why we need this legislation because we are authorizing 18. 2 billion to make sure that all of our large and mid size airports have this technology and have this technology deployed. So im sure were going to hear other comments and other answers but two of them lie right in front of us and im with senator moran, we should get this job done and continue to move forward. Im a believer, as he is, that aviation is going to continue to grow. And we want it to. And that the International Competition is also going to be there. We have to lead and get it right and show we have the capacity in the future and get it to be the safest system in the world. With that, thank you, madam chair, for this important hearing. Sen. Duckworth in the meantime well go ahead with witness testimonies. I would like to go ahead and recognize the chairwoman of the National Transportation safety board for your comments. Thank you. E. Thank you for leading on this issue and having me here today. I want to start by emphasizing our incredible Safety Record. We have the safest airspace in the world, period. The critical efforts of everyone in this room have contributed to our reputation as the worlds Gold Standard for aviation safety. We have a lot to be proud of. But we can make aviation safer. As you can see from this chart, there were 23 serious runway incursions in fy23, up from 16 from fc22 and 11 from a decade ago. Runway incursions are happening more the last decade and all runway incursions and the most serious. While these events are incredibly rare, our Safety System is showing clear signs of strain we cannot ignore. The ntsb has opened investigations into seven runway encoringses alone and over half of the aircraft got within several hundred feet of each other. We also opened an investigation into a runway collision between two Business Jets that occurred two weeks ago in houston. Combined, these events put more than 1,300 lives at risk. Thats on top of three wrong surface landings we investigated. Thankfully no one was hurt or seriously injured in any of these incidents, but they could have been. It only takes one. It only takes one missed warning to become a tragedy, one incorrect response to destroy Public Confidence in a system thats been built over decades. These incidents must serve as a wakeup call before something more catastrophic occurs. This isnt the first time weve seen this. We issued this same warning in 2007 and we issued the same warning after the 2017 incident at s. F. O. Where an a320 came close to colliding with an a340 and three other airliners on a taxiway. The incident aircraft flew over the a340 at an altitude of 60 feet before it began climbing which resulted in only 10 to 20 feet of vertical separation. All told, more than 1,000 people on the taxiway that day were in imminent risk of serious injury or death. I know youre going to want to talk about our open investigations and get details on those. The ntsb is incredibly careful to gather all the facts and evidence around an incident before drawing conclusions or making safety recommendations. While i cannot discuss the details of our open investigations, i can share a few of what were seeing. In the wake of the pandemic, were experiencing a massive insurgence of air traffic but also seeing significant a. T. C. Shortages resulting in mandatory overtime, fatigue, distraction, and less opportunity for meaningful valueadded training. On the flight deck, fatigue and distraction are leading to deviations from federal aviation regulations. Across the entire industry, we have a newer work force who need training and mentorship and were seeing people that are struggling with Significant Mental Health challenges. All of this is compounded by a lack of technology to ensure redundancy and protect against human error. Redundancy is the foundation of our stellar aviation Safety Record and has served as the model for preventing accidents and crashes in all other modes of transportation. All that to say the current strain on our Aviation System and its work force cannot be underestimated. Before i close, i want to thank all of you for being staunch supporters of the ntsb. But now i need your help. The ntsb needs the resources to carry out our vital safety mission. We received 145 million in the president s fy24 budget which is included in the house mark. Had the senate is at 134. 3 million. We need the that to match that number of 145. Our agencys staffing and funding levels have remained somewhat stagnant since 1997. The small increases have gotten to well deserved pay increases for our staff. But since ive become chair, weve accomplished a lot. Weve eliminated our backlog spinally entirely. We boosted staffing and made significant efforts in i. T. Thanks for your continued support and im happy to answer your questions. Chairman duckworth i want to recognize the chief operating officer, f. A. A. Thank you chair duckworth and cantwell and Ranking Member moran. Thank you for the opportunity to testify along with my fellow professionals on an issue thats been referred to as close calls and near misses. I appreciate you holding this hearing for your continued oversight because transparency and commitment to a Continuous Improvement are keys to improving aviation safety. Youre familiar with the statistics, the u. S. Aviation system as chair homedy said, is the safe nest the world and theres not been a major crash involving a major u. S. Airline since 1989 but in my years of Public Service dedicated to aviation safety, ive come to understand safety isnt a number or static place but a journey of Ranking Member<\/a> cruz and moran in their help to making this hearing happen. The near misses weve been seeing recently are not normal and are a warning our Aviation System<\/a> is under stress. And today we will have an opportunity to hear from several Key Stakeholders<\/a> about why were experiencing so many near misses and what we need to do to increase our safety margins. Well hear from National Transportation<\/a> safety chairwoman jennifer hamady, chief operational officer tim worrell and rich santa, Airline Pilots<\/a> association, captain jason ambrossy and former administrator randy back out. While disagreements tend to garner more coverage than compromise, its worth noting i remain proud of the biden reauthorization act we introduced together and remain committed to finding a path forward to passage. Since in any nonbiased opinion, the cantwell crew is far superior than the alternative. Safety Must Come First<\/a> and why i say this may be the most important aviation hearing i hold this year. Our nation is experiencing an aviation safety crisis. Near misses are happening way too frequently and i refuse to be complacent in waiting to act until the next runway incursion becomes a fatal conclusion. A wave of buyouts drained the United States<\/a> Aviation System<\/a> and coupled with a surge in demand created essentially a perfect storm that took the safety margins down to a unsafe level. In far too many near misses, the difference between a close call and deadly disaster has depended on a single individual taking Emergency Action<\/a> along with some good luck. According to the new york times, in a recent 12month period, there were 300 accounts of near collisions involving commercial carriers, thats almost one near miss per day so far. I think weve got some images behind us here. The darker image is a video of a individual riding in the jump seat of a jetblue flight landing at boston airport and shows a hopper jet charter flight crossing the runway about to land on and shows how the plane came within 400 feet of the jet crossing in front of them while taking off superan intersecting runway. Despite that hopper jet receiving instructions to line up and wait. Logan airport installed a surface system that notified air Traffic Control<\/a> when the charter flight began its unauthorized takeoff roll and this layer of safety was critical in empowering the controller to provide jetblue with the go round instructions that diverted disaster. That same month at Austin Bergstrom<\/a> airport we witnessed how the lack of equipment drastically shows the catastrophe. A worker working on an overtime shift cleared the plane to run on the southwest 737 had been cleared to take off from. It was foggy in the early hours and the controller could not see the runway with its own eyes or see the runway and was on the ground when the other plane went through the clouds. 131 souls came close to dying that day. The following animation demonstrates what it looks like when a 757 comes within 100 feet of a landing 737. These two aircraft came within 100 feet of another. And a. T. C. Did not see how close those came and it was the pilot who called for the goaround and initiated his own goaround and told the other aircraft that he notified the other aircraft that they almost came in contact with one another and the air Traffic Control<\/a>ler never saw it. The air Traffic Control<\/a>ler also was on an overtime shift. Unfortunately, the near misses keep happening. Last month an Alaska Airlines<\/a> flight executive flight executing a goaround in oregon veered into a flight path taking off from a parallel runway. The f. A. A. Congress and Aviation Industry<\/a> must treat these near misses as precursor events if left unchecked will result in a deadly catastrophe. We have many layers of safety in our Aviation System<\/a>. The first layer is the pilot controller readback and the second layer is the airport designs and markings. Next is a runway safety lights that turn red when the runway is active alerting a crossing pilot to not cross. In ideal situations, the fourth layer is a ground radar tool. And of course the last line of defense lies with the flight crew, especially the captain and first officer. Despite multiple layers of safety its come to the last line of defense. And the bottom line, pilots take Emergency Action<\/a>s to save lives is either a broken system or one overwhelmed by new risks. Such new risk could be the aggregate loss of experience and forces the industry to confront a work force overall thats less experienced from pilots to controllers to technicians and other personnel. It appears weve been fortunate to have experienced pilots in many of these instances who prevented a close call from becoming a disaster but continuing to count on such good fortune is neither sustainable nor responsible. I hope well hear more from this about our witnesses. The one thing we already know now is not the time to weaken or water down the postcovid era Safety System<\/a>. Now is the time to strengthen it. This includes prioritizing one of the most vital pillars of our aviation Safety System<\/a>, air Traffic Control<\/a>. Look, every air Traffic Control<\/a>ler has the privilege and pressure of working in a road thats inherently stressful even on a good day. That reality is no excuse for our current status quo which forces controllers to regularly work 60hour weeks because an estimated 99 of airports are understaffed. In addition to many airports lacking important runway technology, as both a pilot and passenger i refuse to accept the status quo that places the lives of our constituents in the hands of Civil Servants<\/a> that are overworked and utterly exhausted. More than a decade ago the aviation established a new pilot rest rule. This aligned with a growing body of language shows optimizing performance, you need rest and recovery. The stakes could not be higher for a. T. C. F. A. A. Prioritizes the problem of fatigued controllers and Congress Wants<\/a> to ensure a. T. C. Staffing levels are sufficient to end once and for all the error of controllers to work regularly 60 hours per week and often without the benefit of Vital Safety Technology<\/a> and tools. I look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today<\/a> how we can enhance safety and get our margins back to where they need to be. I recognize now Ranking Member<\/a> moran for his opening statement. Representative moran thank you for your cooperation and working with me and others to see this subcommittee and whole committee accomplishes its task in regard to aviation. The f. A. A. Manages one of the worlds most complex Aviation System<\/a>s, in fact the most complex Aviation System<\/a> that overseas more than 44,000 flights a day and almost three Million Airline<\/a> passengers. Safety is so important. But it is an evolving process and we must continually reevaluate our system to make sure we have the most safe possible in play. We must determine how to prevent certain instances like runway incursions and near misses so im pleased to join you in having this hearing and we need to ensure these incidents are not indicative of a underlying issue. We know the demand for aviation is expected to grow and we have new entrants into our airspace. F. A. A. Is directly involved in 1. 5 million jobs and 1. 5 trillion in g. D. P. In the worlds economy. Our job is determine the pressure points on our system now so it can be ready to meet the demands not only today but in the future. Dangerous incidents also further highlight the need for congress to pass f. A. A. Reauthorization. Im pleased and agree with you we have a bill thats worthy of action by the full committee and action from the United States<\/a> senate and looking forward so seeing it does. Earlier we confirmed an f. A. A. Administrators, one of the most important tasks we could do and also one of the basic roles of the United States<\/a> senate. Im pleased the administration nominated and the United States<\/a> Senate Confirmed<\/a> a new f. A. A. Administrator we look forward to working with and have faith he will perform his task well. I do hope we get out of the series of reauthorizations weve had in years past and look forward to a long term reauthorization of the f. A. A. The f. A. A. In my view is at a critical juncture and perhaps that could be said at many times in our countrys history but we face many challenges and the f. A. A. Is front and center and ought to do everything in our power to ensure the United States<\/a> remain as leader in Aerospace Innovation<\/a> and in everything we do, we do it safely. Thank you, chairwoman. Ms. Duckworth i want to turn it over to ms. Cantwell for her opening remarks. Ms. Cantwell thank for you your comments and senator moran for this important hearing. I cant think of two People Better<\/a> prepared to lead the safety charge and aviation charge on our committee than the two of you so thank you for doing this hearing and i so agree with both of your comments. I think you outlined exactly why were here this morning, that it is a constant task to be on top of innovation and safety and competitiveness. I want to thank the witnesses for being here, too, because i think that they are very illuminating of the challenges we face in the past and how we met them and thank them today. The safety accountability act outlines new ways to improve safety and one of those was to basically say we should have a trend report every year to better listen to some of the safety trends. This hearing this morning is really a reflection of thatits about what were doing and what we can do to fix it. I want to applaud the ntsb on the near misses and think theyve sounded the alarm and think youre sounding it again today and one of the reasons why, as senator moran said, is we need to get an f. A. A. Authorization bill because we have tools in this bill that will help us meet that challenge. First and foremost, ntsb director hamady is saying in her testimony for controllers weve cited staffing shortages and fatigue, lack of or deficient supervisory oversight, distraction, ineffective scanning, and the need for valueadded training. Thats an end quote there, a summation of hers. That is why we need the additional f. A. A. Air Traffic Control<\/a>lers that are in the f. A. A. Bill of over 3,000 people to help us meet this balance. We cannot have people working six days a week. We need people who have the ample amount of rest and capability to deal with, as my colleague senator duckworth said, probably one of the most stressful and challenging jobs there is. Secondly, i think she also outlines correctly the important attributes of the air surface detection Equipment Program<\/a> which is the ground radar and Electronic Technology<\/a> that allows controllers to Craft Movement<\/a> of vehicles and in the airports where we have this technology, guess what . Things have worked well. The areas where we havent, this is why we need this legislation because we are authorizing 18. 2 billion to make sure that all of our large and mid size airports have this technology and have this technology deployed. So im sure were going to hear other comments and other answers but two of them lie right in front of us and im with senator moran, we should get this job done and continue to move forward. Im a believer, as he is, that aviation is going to continue to grow. And we want it to. And that the International Competition<\/a> is also going to be there. We have to lead and get it right and show we have the capacity in the future and get it to be the safest system in the world. With that, thank you, madam chair, for this important hearing. Sen. Duckworth in the meantime well go ahead with witness testimonies. I would like to go ahead and recognize the chairwoman of the National Transportation<\/a> safety board for your comments. Thank you. E. Thank you for leading on this issue and having me here today. I want to start by emphasizing our incredible Safety Record<\/a>. We have the safest airspace in the world, period. The critical efforts of everyone in this room have contributed to our reputation as the worlds Gold Standard<\/a> for aviation safety. We have a lot to be proud of. But we can make aviation safer. As you can see from this chart, there were 23 serious runway incursions in fy23, up from 16 from fc22 and 11 from a decade ago. Runway incursions are happening more the last decade and all runway incursions and the most serious. While these events are incredibly rare, our Safety System<\/a> is showing clear signs of strain we cannot ignore. The ntsb has opened investigations into seven runway encoringses alone and over half of the aircraft got within several hundred feet of each other. We also opened an investigation into a runway collision between two Business Jets<\/a> that occurred two weeks ago in houston. Combined, these events put more than 1,300 lives at risk. Thats on top of three wrong surface landings we investigated. Thankfully no one was hurt or seriously injured in any of these incidents, but they could have been. It only takes one. It only takes one missed warning to become a tragedy, one incorrect response to destroy Public Confidence<\/a> in a system thats been built over decades. These incidents must serve as a wakeup call before something more catastrophic occurs. This isnt the first time weve seen this. We issued this same warning in 2007 and we issued the same warning after the 2017 incident at s. F. O. Where an a320 came close to colliding with an a340 and three other airliners on a taxiway. The incident aircraft flew over the a340 at an altitude of 60 feet before it began climbing which resulted in only 10 to 20 feet of vertical separation. All told, more than 1,000 people on the taxiway that day were in imminent risk of serious injury or death. I know youre going to want to talk about our open investigations and get details on those. The ntsb is incredibly careful to gather all the facts and evidence around an incident before drawing conclusions or making safety recommendations. While i cannot discuss the details of our open investigations, i can share a few of what were seeing. In the wake of the pandemic, were experiencing a massive insurgence of air traffic but also seeing significant a. T. C. Shortages resulting in mandatory overtime, fatigue, distraction, and less opportunity for meaningful valueadded training. On the flight deck, fatigue and distraction are leading to deviations from federal aviation regulations. Across the entire industry, we have a newer work force who need training and mentorship and were seeing people that are struggling with Significant Mental Health<\/a> challenges. All of this is compounded by a lack of technology to ensure redundancy and protect against human error. Redundancy is the foundation of our stellar aviation Safety Record<\/a> and has served as the model for preventing accidents and crashes in all other modes of transportation. All that to say the current strain on our Aviation System<\/a> and its work force cannot be underestimated. Before i close, i want to thank all of you for being staunch supporters of the ntsb. But now i need your help. The ntsb needs the resources to carry out our vital safety mission. We received 145 million in the president s fy24 budget which is included in the house mark. Had the senate is at 134. 3 million. We need the that to match that number of 145. Our agencys staffing and funding levels have remained somewhat stagnant since 1997. The small increases have gotten to well deserved pay increases for our staff. But since ive become chair, weve accomplished a lot. Weve eliminated our backlog spinally entirely. We boosted staffing and made significant efforts in i. T. Thanks for your continued support and im happy to answer your questions. Chairman duckworth i want to recognize the chief operating officer, f. A. A. Thank you chair duckworth and cantwell and Ranking Member<\/a> moran. Thank you for the opportunity to testify along with my fellow professionals on an issue thats been referred to as close calls and near misses. I appreciate you holding this hearing for your continued oversight because transparency and commitment to a Continuous Improvement<\/a> are keys to improving aviation safety. Youre familiar with the statistics, the u. S. Aviation system as chair homedy said, is the safe nest the world and theres not been a major crash involving a major u. S. Airline since 1989 but in my years of Public Service<\/a> dedicated to aviation safety, ive come to understand safety isnt a number or static place but a journey of Continuous Improvement<\/a> and eliminating risk before it becomes a statistic. Any significant event isolated or indicative of a trend is a concern and one we dont take lightly. One close call is one too many. Aviation safety is a team sport. Air Traffic Control<\/a>lers, pilots, commercial operators, general aviation and airports provide multiple layers of safety to protect the flying public. Weve intentionally built in redundancies and procedures where if one fails the other one kicks in. Let me stress, the level of safety we currently have is only possible because of transparency and constant collaboration between the f. A. A. And users of the National Airspace<\/a> system. At the f. A. A. , we are proud of our proactive Safety Culture<\/a> which means we value and encourage the sharing of data and Safety Information<\/a> among the agency, industry, and labor to reduce risk, to learn from each other and to collaboratively develop mitigations. The bottom line is that sharing and exchanging Safety Information<\/a> makes us safer and stronger. In fiscal year 2023, there were approximate 54. 5 million takeoffs and landings in the u. S. And 1,756 total runway incursions. Its important to note, as the ntsb has highlighted, the number of most serious runway incursions is where the runway was avoided or significant spot of collisions is 23. All this information is available to the public. However, each though significant runway incursions were only 1. 3 of the total number of operations, any number is unacceptable. Were ernestly exploring the elimination of all significant safety event in the system. Our goal is zero significant safety events. Transparent and collaborative reporting revealed an uptick in the most significant events early and it was a call to action to other initiatives. The safety summit held in march of 2023 brought together more than 200 safety leaders across the Aviation Industry<\/a> including labor representatives from naca, alfa and pas to discuss ways for flight safety. Chair homedy spoke there as well and we contributed with a goal of no safety events. This was the same approach to look at the risk of fatalities among airlines. F. A. A. Has held a number of summits with general aviation, air carriers, Business Aviation<\/a> and airport operators. We hear a lot about Technology Solutions<\/a> and those are colonel key. Were fast tracking technologies to address specific concerns on the airport surface and are deploying a surface a Awareness Technology<\/a> it at those locations that dont have a surface surveillance system. The trend overall is going down but its not enough. As i stressed the beginning of my testimony, while were proud of our Safety Culture<\/a> and the progress weve made, we dont have the luxury of complacency. Were optimistic that our ongoing work in collaboration with industry and labor will continue to lead to greater safety improvements. The f. A. A. Will continue to collaborate with those that use the air system with a goal of eliminating significant safety events. Going forward, zero has to be the only acceptable number. Thanks for the chance to speak on this critical issue and look forward to answering your questions. Sen. Duckworth i recognize the president of the air Traffic Control<\/a>ler association for five minutes, mr. Santa. Ranking member moran and chair cantwell and ms. Duckworth, thanks for the opportunity to testify. The most important action the congress can take for the safety of the airspace system would be to pass a long term comprehensive f. A. A. Reauthorization bill before the end of this year that directs the f. A. A. To adopt a target staffing target thats been developed by the collaborative Resource Work<\/a> group as the basis of the f. A. A. Controller and work force plan and to maximize controller hiring for the duration of that bill. There are over 1,000 fewer controllers today than there were a decade ago. Continuing to follow the same flawed model that the f. A. A. Utilizes after more than a decade, missed hiring goals and staffing projections will continue this downward trend. A new approach is desperately needed. The f. A. A. Must adopt the updated and more accurate operational staffing targets that were jointly developed by the collaborative Resource Work<\/a> group. They were developed by a team comprised of f. A. A. s air Traffic Organization<\/a> and naca and the center for advanced Aviation Development<\/a> verified and validated that groups work. The facility staffing targets the f. A. A. Utilizes today in our facilities were developed almost a decade ago. Its beyond time to update them. The new crwg staffing targets need to be used for the basis of the f. A. A. Work force plan. Moving forward. So that congress and Aviation Industry<\/a> have a complete and most importantly, accurate picture in view of the staffing needs. We appreciate the commerce committees inclusion of the crwg targets in this draft reauthorization bill. Understaffing the f. A. A. Requires mandatory overtime to our controlled work force including regular six day workweeks and 10 hour days and this leads to fatigue. Last years controllers at 40 of our facilities work six day workweeks at least once a month and several of our facilities require six day workweeks and 10hour days every single week. Air Traffic Control<\/a> is already a highly stressful profession, working 200 hours per month layers on significant fatigue and inserts additional risk. In fact in june the d. O. T. Inspector general issued an audit concluding while the United States<\/a> has one of the safest air Traffic Systems<\/a> in the world, a lack of fully certified controllers poses a potential risk to air traffic operations. To reach the crwg staffing targets, the f. A. A. Must hire to the maximum throughput of the f. A. A. Academy for more than just the next five years. We are thankful for the Bipartisan Group<\/a> of senators who have cosponsored the important air Traffic Control<\/a>ler hiring act of 2023. Which we believe should be included in the base operations bill. The f. A. A. Needs to be aware of the funding the equipment budget would provide resources for fiscal infrastructure repairs and sustainment. Equipment modernization and major capital projects. Conhas always met the agents stated need but the f. A. A. Has consistently requested less than it needs. It hasnt even adjusted for inflation. This has prevented the agency from meeting its equipment sustainment replacement and modernization needs resulting in a significant backlog. Moving to a fix on fail model left the f. A. A. With the inability to maintain critical equipment thats exceeded its expected life and introduced unnecessary risk into the system. The failure of the u. S. Nodem system earlier this year resulting in a shutdown of the airspace was a glaring example of this risk. Funding limitations also delayed the f. A. A. From designing and implementing new technology to improve safety such as the airport surveillance Situational Awareness<\/a> polls that are so needed to address runway incursions, a top safety concern. Natca is looking at the thud bill because with the infrastructure and jobs act, it will meet the f. A. A. s needs this year. Finally i want to stress the need to avoid a Government Shutdown<\/a> that would force the f. A. A. To suspend hiring, close its training academy, delay the pipeline of new controllers, delay modernization which would be a catastrophic impact to the air system and thanks for your time and look forward to your yeses. Sen. Duckworth. Very impressed. Air Traffic Control<\/a>ler speaking right there, on the dot. Thank you, mr. Santa and recognize the captain for his remarks. Thank you. Im not sure ill be as accurate as rich was. Good morning. Thank you chair duckworth and cantwell and moran and members of the committee for holding this hearing. Im an international captain on the boeing 767 and president of the Airline Pilots<\/a> association international. Its an honor to testify today representing more than 77,000 Airline Pilots<\/a> that fly for 42 airlines in the United States<\/a> and canada. Id like to begin by thanking this committee and the entire committee for its commitment to keeping the american Aviation System<\/a> the safest in the world. In the context of this extraordinary level aviation safety and government labor and industry have achieved in the United States<\/a>, recent near misses remind us we can never let our guard down. From employees to procedures, theres a lot of new in the post covid era transportation system. We must do nor, not less to safeguard airline passengers, crews, and shippers. The success weve achieved in the Aviation System<\/a> didnt happen by chance, rather it stems from decades of work and commitment to collaboration, Data Collection<\/a> and analysis and hazard collection and mitigation. Our progress also result from critical changes to pilot qualification and training, fatigue, Airline Operations<\/a> and maintenance and technology. Airline pilots and other aviation employees are proud to play a Critical Role<\/a> in aviation safety. The voluntary safety reporting programs, were the ones, on the only ones to identify safety issues before they develop into accidents. The presence of highly trained and well rested pilots working on every Airline Flight<\/a> deck is another critical factor in safety. We saw this during the near miss incident in austin this past february that could have resulted in tragedy if not for the actions of the two fedex pilots working aboard that flight deck together. Such incidents make it clear that with demand returning quicker than some anticipated its no time to reduce safety. Whether these events compel us to safety with Data Collection<\/a> efforts such as the commercial Aviation Safety Team<\/a> and technologies like next again. More work can and must be done to prevent near misses and other incidents. Alpha is calling for expanding the capability at u. S. Air force including flight optimization and stars aviation displays, a. S. B. Outage equipage and next general equipage and help husband do more to highlight nexgen to pinpoint the position of aircraft while in flight and on the ground. Moving nexgen forward will not only help prevent near misses and enhanced safety but improve management and utilization and reduce flight delays, cut aviation omission and result in profitability. We commend the congress to give new funding to replace Aviation System<\/a> with new technology to ensure pilots and controllers benefit from the stateoftheart runway, surveillance and information, and we support the white house request for additional funding to extend these safety improvements to more u. S. Airports. Alpha is committed to ensuring that all u. S. Airports benefit from the same high level of safety rehardless of size or location. The bipartisan f. A. A. Reauthorization act of 2023 included provisions to enhance safety and prevent near miss incidents. We thank you for your focus on these important safetied a advancements. Recently theres been awareness of the workers Mental Health<\/a>. No one is more committed to alpa, to have the support we need when facing challenges. In 2024, alpa will mark the 50th year in implementing programs that help with Mental Health<\/a>. Weve set the standard and it is used by other industries and countries. However, we as an industry must do more. We applaud the committee for addressing your 2023 reauthorization bill. This is a good start and we stand ready to work with any stakeholder to make improvements in this critical area. Thanks to this committee and the commitment to collaborating with labor and other aviation stakeholders, u. S. Air travel is extraordinary safe. Alpa pilots are dedicated to protecting this nations Global Leadership<\/a> and moving forward to advance safety in our skies. Thank you. Sen. Duckworth not bad. An extra four seconds. I recognize the former f. A. A. Administrator, randy back out. Thank you. Randy babbott. Im pleased to speak to you with folks from the ntsb and labor in general. I was pleased to lead the f. A. A. And alpa in the past. I was a commercial Airline Pilot<\/a> for a number of years. As alpa president i worked back in the day with administrator henson to launch the f. A. A. Aviation Safety Action Program<\/a> and secured one level of safety and when we moved part 135 regulations to comply with 121 operations. We all at that point in time required each of our alpa pilot groups to establish and embrace professional standards and as president obamas f. A. A. Administrators i worked with the f. A. A. Safety professionals which we updated the pilot rest rules which had been on the ntsbs most wanted list for about two decades, so we got that done. We worked with carriers to implement the aviation safety analysis and sharing system. We advanced work with commercial Aviation Safety Team<\/a> cast which reported in 2008 that the risk in fatal commercial accidents had been reduced by 83 . All that work was done in conjunction and working together with all the parties. However, in mid 2009 i testified before this very committee after a tragic accident and knowing we must do more to enhance aviation safety, i instituted a call to action urging unions to focus on professionalism and professional standards committees. We asked the carriers to adopt voluntary safety and data sharing programs. Tata, when shared and acted upon without fear and no retribution is what makes this safe and this remains critical as its clear that what got us here today is not a guarantee it will take us into the future. A lack of action today is simply not a good predictor of future accidents. Our environment is changing and recent close calls and incursions are symptoms of strain and highly urge a strong refocus on professionalism, eliminating complacency if we can and boosting management throughout our operations. As our operating environment evolves, the training of our professionals has to advance with it. Flight simulators can be used in structured training courses to accurately recreate Flight Operations<\/a> and a immerse provision helping pilots encounter rare events like decompressions and emergency descents and high speed takeoffs, severe icing conditions, engine stopping and full stalls and doing this without placing lives in danger. Simulators present the opportunity to also record accident scenarios in training and pilots should experience the factors that led to the accident and learn how to successfully recover so such accidents never happen again. The tools are here. Its backed by substantial data and yet theres a hesitation to act. The focal rule was never meant to be static and the safety rule clearly directs, quote, supplemental training may be used to offset flight requirements when doing to brings us to a higher level of safety and additional Training Credit<\/a> should be well used to improve both safety and skills. The f. A. A. Has followed up with two aviation rule making committees comprised of experts from across aviation including alpa and the members of both organizations have recommended a curriculum to replace flight hours with advanced training and mentoring. This guidance has not been implemented and in my opinion it should be. Im not alone in saying this the current administrator encouraged the adoption of training techniques and i joined with eight administrators and two former alpa president s and i happen to be in both buckets, to urge the adoption of tested and trusted new technologies to strengthen air safety. We said in that letter if scenario based Simulator Training<\/a> was a routine part of gaining 1,500 hours required, we could do update of training and help with the scenarios leading to near misses. We said as Pilot Training<\/a> and technology evolves, its the responsibility of the f. A. A. And policymakers to evolve with it. That concludes my message today and look forward to answering any questions. Thank you. Sen. Duckworth. Thank you. I now will recognize myself for five minutes of questions. As you know well, addressing pilot fatigue was a high priority under your leadership. In december of 2009, the associate administrator Peggy Gilligan<\/a> testified before this very committee, and i quote, this is quoting her, we believe it is critical whenever possible to incopycat science information on fatigue and regulations on flight crew scheduling and such information could maintain the safety margin and promote optimum crew performance and flight alertness during operation. The f. A. A. Acted in late 2011 to publish new rules on pilot fatigue which many, including the then chair of the ntsb believe is a contributor of the cogan trash that killed 50 people in 2009. F. A. A. Limits the amount of time pilots can be on duty and pilot flight time and implement rest before duty day. Chair homedy, you state when the it comes to these recent high profile incidents, mistakes by flight crews or personnel are cited sometimes as a contributing factor but is it human error when 90 of your workplaces are exhausted and dont have adequate staffing . Is it time for f. A. A. And congress to reexamine and update rules aimed to optimize air Traffic Control<\/a>ler performance . Ms. Homedy its not just the number of hours but the scheduling practices. If youre already short staffed you have people working mandatory overtime, six days a week, 10hour days and when you look at the schedule, its a constantly rotating schedule. I have one from one event, a schedule for a week from one event that were currently investigating. We have two evenings, a morning shift, another evening shift, another morning shift, a day off and evening. All of that can impact your sir cade yum rhythm. Circadian rhythm and where you end up with that is distraction, fatigue, youre missing things, youre forgetting things. Thats all an impact. Sen. Duckworth i feel what was taken as the minimum amount of rest has become a standard way we schedule folks and dont believe its sustainable. Can you share why rest rules are needed to protect flight crews and the flying public . s. Thank for you the question, it comes down to the resiliency of our staffing and were short staffed and most or many of our facilities that Service Travel<\/a> now, we dont have the opportunity or the capacity to have a fiveday workweek with eighthour days. Richie the norm, keeping the system active and keeping the capacity at the level its expected to be requires six day work weeks and 10 hour days clue to the fact the f. A. A. Model of hiring and what they produce on the work force plan has exasperated the situation resulting in 1,000 fewer controllers in this elevated aviation upturn. Its unsustainable and needs to be changed through f. A. A. Reauthorization. The f. A. A. Has been unwilling to collaboratively involve these new processes. s sen. Duckworth thank you. If congress premiere role is passing the safety act in 2010 is to prevent disasters one must recognize its been a success, starting with the 99. 9 reduction in part 2021 fatalities since when the rules went into effect. We must not take the precovid safety for granted and i aprudent person tinkering with the 15hour rule. As a military pilot i flew simulators and you have six degree of motion and full simulators, thats an immense tool and very useful tool. But i do think that if we just substitute some of the 1,500 hours and just say structured simulator time but dont specifically say what type of simulator, what kind of training thats going to be. You can burn holes in the sky in a simulator as you can burn holes in the sky in a 152. Lets be clear when you say lets talk about simulators that were talking about full motion, six degree, full emergent simulator and not microsoft simulator sitting in a Hotel Ballroom<\/a> some place. Our system mandatory protocols dont seem to be accounting for new risks in our system and the aggregate is less experienced work force and pervasive air Traffic Control<\/a> shortages. Mr. Ambrosi, at a time we have a 736 and 767 flying within 100 feet together and every other month seems to be a chilling runway or near miss, would you agree the most prudent or safest course of action would be to auditional training requirements instead of watering it down to the 1,500 rule . Mr. Ambrosi absolutely. All of the above. You need the real world experience as well as better training. So its an all of the above. Sen. Duckworth i think what we can do trying to get to the 1,500 hour rule we can break that down and say you actually need a certain number of i. M. C. Hours or a certain number of crosscountry hours and be very specific in that which is what happens in the military which is much more structured than the average person trying to get to two 1,500 hours at the f. B. O. Im out of time and overtime and i will recognize Ranking Member<\/a> moran for his questions. Mr. Moran thank for you highlighting the importance of no shut down, mr. Santa. It ought to be evident but you outlined a number of serious things that can and will happen if we fail to come together and again while were trying to get ahead of the problem, this would put us behind the ball one more time. So thanks for bringing that to our attention, to my attention, and well work to try to avoid any kind of gap in funding. Chairman homedy, thank for you reminding me, im a new member of the transportation h. U. D. Committee and will take your suggestion, your request to heart. Its not always i get asked to follow the house lead but appreciate you bringing that to my attention as well. Mr. Arel and mr. Santa, last Holiday Season<\/a>, we experienced some significant operational, really, a meltdown across the u. S. Airspace that was exacerbated by no time system outage which were working to solve with legislation as well. It led to thousands of cancellations. What can i tell my constituents and americans about what to expect this Holiday Season<\/a> with thanksgiving approaching and the winter holidays just around the corner . Mr. Arel we can been working collaboratively with the agency to highlight the more challenging times last Holiday Season<\/a>. Of course we had a significant weather event that was unprecedented in some ways with the deep freeze that immediately followed the snowstorm that occurred. I just met recently this week with all of my counterparts across the airlines, theyre in a much better position as far as their overall staffing and operational control and the amount of coordination they do with the f. A. A. Additionally, while were working to prioritize and train as many controllers and hire and train as many certified controllers as possible, we have a long way to go, many of the facilities are much healthier than previously and we work collaboratively to the extent possible to have as many people in place to support those holiday periods. Once we were through the christmas and new Year Holidays<\/a> last year, the follow on Holiday Travel<\/a> period before we see the peak in demand were much smoother and less interruptions and we had some challenging weather events we dont expect traffic to fly lieu but those events were oneday recoveries versus the multiday type of recovery. Were in a better position than last year and get better. Mr. Santa and we assume the government doesnt shut down. Mr. Moran i may need to be flying because i cant get home before during a shutdown during the holidays. This is not a personal question necessarily but maybe. Mr. Santa ill take the actual aspects of our situation and not the changes in weather and the situation because we are not healthier than last year. I think f. A. A. s own numbers indicate we have potentially six more air Traffic Control<\/a>lers than last year systemwide. That is not a expansive increase of what we need. Our Certified Air<\/a> Traffic Control<\/a>ler now is 10,721. Using their decade old number, we should be at 13,097 and using the new collaborative Resource Work<\/a> group number, we should be at 14,335. An unhealthy system that needs maximum hiring by the f. A. A. s own admission for 10 years to get us to the old number. 10 years of maximum hiring to the current throughput to get us to a 10yearold number and at that number would be a 20yearold staffing number in our facilities. Mr. Moran what role does the size and class and training and education in Oklahoma City<\/a> at the air Traffic Control<\/a> training center, what role does that play in the lack of necessary air Traffic Control<\/a>lers . Mr. Santa day admit, i think the capacity is around 1,800 potentially to 2,000 and them and the f. A. A. Are working to increase that along with us moving some of the ancillary things out of ok city but the more through put we get the more controllers we can hire and the more success well have sooner. We cannot unqualify the standards or the professionalism or the expectation that when you certify in a facility, youre capable doing the most challenging profession at the highest level. So challenging but more throughput is needed. Sen. Moran without changing the qualification. Theres nothing wrong but helpful to increase the size of the class . Mr. Santa absolutely, if we can increase the throughput without changing qualifications its needed. Sen. Cantwell captain, the pilots have rest requirements, why is that . Mr. Ambrosi because we need rest. We absolutely need rest. Out of the 2010 bill, theres a lot of reforms not just Pilot Training<\/a> but we went to a science based fatigue flight and duty time rest rules about eight years ago and its been a success because now its based on science, not some arbitrary number it limits our duty day instead of just flight time but having an adequately rested pilot or controller or anyone thats a front line worker is essential. Sen. Cantwell thats where i was going. Your side there is the chair of the ntsb and shes saying she is worried about their fatigue level. As your captain youre worried about the air Traffic Control<\/a>ler fatigue system . Mr. Ambrosi rich is better to comment on their scheduling because im not an expert in air Traffic Control<\/a> scheduling. But as a pilot, our rest is essential, so i would imagine it would be similar for them. Sen. Cantwell thank you. I wanted to ask about this, also. Did you want to make a comment about that, mr. Santa . Ok. The air surface detection equipment model. One of the Things Technology<\/a> does do is it helps illuminate the risk and certainly in a busy environment and certainly one in which people are paying attention to lots of different things, the fact it can be a more illuminating visual so that its getting peoples attention is also part of the system. In the senate bill weve increased 18. 2 billion over five years, an increase that would put money, as i said is earlier, to upgrade all the large and mid size airports. Im assuming all of you support this investment but if you can give me a verbal yes. Ms. Homedy yes but we like also technology in the cockpit of an airplane. Direct alerting technology to pilots that can alert them theyre on the wrong runway or theyre on a taxiway or theres something in front of them. Sen. Cantwell down the line you support the language in the bill . Mr. Ambrosi absolutely. Mr. Santa yes, senator. Sen. Cantwell it takes a year to get it implemented if we got the bill passed. But im assuming you think this is something we should work with and dispatch to get the technology deployed as soon as possible . Ms. Homedy absolutely. Its prevented almost accidents. We need the technology and we need technology for air Traffic Control<\/a>lers but we also need technology in the cockpit of airports airplanes. Sen. Cantwell situational aware yesterday, mr. Babbitt, the whole context of nexgen is take them off the radar system and the whole aspect of it on the ground would also give you Situational Awareness<\/a> was one of the things trumpeted by the bill. And we can think of why were in this situation of near misses, you described it accurately, youre coming out of the covid and ramping up traffic and we have situations we dont have the work force maybe would give us the west time. And we have solutions and if we deployed them it would help. Ms. Homedy i hear about technology its too expensive and we dont have the resources. We have to give the f. A. A. Resources to invest. We need to give them what they need to succeed at their jobs. Sen. Duckworth thank you. Next to speak would be senator sinema recognized for five minutes. Via remote. We can move on to the next senator and come back to senator sinema when available. I also have senator thune, is he available . Were running all over the capitol today, all of us, in and out. Sen. Cinema can you hear me . I apologize for the technical difficulties. Thanks to each of our witnesses for following me today. I have long stated the United States<\/a> needs to remain the Gold Standard<\/a> of aviation safety. To set the Gold Standard<\/a> we need to continue to utilize all the tools available to us and hold hearings like this one to discuss opportunities to advance aviation safety. I appreciate the committees emphasis in not only maintaining safety but innovating to improve our National Airspace<\/a>. The number of near misses makes it clear to improve safety and unacceptable to wait for a tragedy to force us into action. We heard a lot today about how essential technology is for training air Traffic Control<\/a>lers because it allows hands on training for emergencies and unforeseen events without endangering actual aircraft. In fact, the f. A. A. Specifically called for updating Simulator Technology<\/a> for air Traffic Control<\/a>lers in response to recent near misses. We should all have the same desire to use the most advanced technologies to update our Pilot Training<\/a> rules and make sure the 1,500 hours of Pilot Training<\/a> provides the vast and most practical training available in order to optimize safety. Administrator babbitt, you joined the other administrators since 1997 and two other alpa president s in a letter arguing advanced Flight Simulator<\/a> is required to ensure the best training outcomes. Your testimony today admits training to evolve with technology. Can you explain why modern advanced simulators are essential for modern Flight Training<\/a> including the unique ability to practice avoiding near misses and dealing with other emergencies . Mr. Babbitt thank for you the question and yes, i think its incredibly important. I think what you have in modern simulation today is the ability to recreate, or repeat events that have already happened. Can you put people in situations that you would never put them in in a real airplane. You cannot take an airplane into heavy icing conditions. But you can do things, you can simulate, for example, a clearance that clearly was a conflict and you have to abort and show the pilot how that happened, what went wrong, did anybody learn something from this, lets not do it again. And those are the types of things immersive simulation can do and we have the capacity to actually have controllers control airplanes on radarscopes and simulators together so we can practice these things. And i think its a terrific advantage. I think it enhances safety greatly. If youve already seen a maneuver two or three times and know what got you into it and how to properly get out of it, i think thats a great benefit. Sen. Cinema chair, homedy has there been a recommendation to the f. A. A. Based on the relationship of the exact number of hours spent flying an aircraft versus other structured Training Programs<\/a> . Ms. Homedy no, we have not. Sen. Cinema do you agree with the former administrators and administrators whittaker, incorporating the most advanced Simulator Technology<\/a> into structured Pilot Training<\/a> programs may play a role in improving safety outcomes . Ms. Homedy there is a role for technology and what doesnt exist is the safety data and how much ftimes the right amount. Sen. Cinema mr. Santa discussed today air Traffic Control<\/a> staffing is an integral component of our safety in our airspace. I understand the f. A. A. Has authority of direct hiring of individuals to en route and terminal facilities from f. A. A. Colleges and academy such as Arizona State<\/a> and other universities. Kid do this by reviving the collegiate initiative or c. T. I. Programs, you yourself went from the Community College<\/a> of Beaver County<\/a> through c. T. I. And were directly hired into a chronically understaffed facility. Do you think the f. A. A. Should establish a program like this to direct hire into facilities to supplement the staffing of our facilities across the country . It would be valuable to increase the throughput but the standards cant be lessened by those goals and the oversight needs to be maintained. Sen. Sinema mr. Santa, at most airports controllers use paper flight strips to keep track of flights and ive seen it in arizona. The tdfdm is modernizing the system and will increase Situational Awareness<\/a> to better handle fluctuations and volume and changing west. Due to Budget Constraints<\/a> the f. A. A. Reduced the number of airports that received this Important Technology<\/a> from 89 down to 49 including removing four airports in my home state of arizona. Could you talk about how tfdm reduces operational safety risks by increasing the heads up time and how all the airports will benefit from tdsbm . Mr. Santa not only tfdm but every tool and implementation of new collaboratively determined Technology Helps<\/a> our controllers with separation, surface surveillance, management of traffic and capacity, and my most recent data says its down from 89 to 32 sites due to lack of funding. It continues to trickle down due to lack of funding. Sen. Sinema thank you. Sen. Duckworth i recognize senator klobuchar for her five minutes. Sen. Klobuchar thank you to all of you. We have a trying to get the video on here. In the middle of a big judiciary hearing so i appreciate the ability to ask questions via video. Weve seen an Alarming Number<\/a> of close call incidences on airport runways throughout the year and these incidences are preventible, we all know that because we have gone for years without incidents like this. The ntsb has called for the expanded use of Airport Technologies<\/a> to mitigate the risks. I have an amendment to the f. A. A. Bill to direct the f. A. A. To issue recommendations on cockpits alerting technologies that directly alert crews and pilots of potential incursions to prevent these near misses. How can equipping pilots with Technology Prevent<\/a> runway incursions and close calls . And i would ask that of you, ms. Ms. Homedy one of our oldest recommendations going back 23 years. The reason why you have cockpit alerting is it the controller misses something and if the controller misses something, then something can alert the pilots to take action. Sen. Close jar mr. Arel can you discuss why cockpit alerting systems are important and when we can expect a requirement from the f. A. A. . Mr. Arel that would be outside our area of expertise. I would defer to my colleagues on the regulatory side or anyone with a flight deck area of concern. Sen. Klobuchar i have to go into vote on this markup now and they need me in person so do you want a quick answer and ill go in there. Ms. Homendy there were a number of runway inclusions including in ohare and then a terrible tragedy occurred in 2007 and 4950 people on the plane died. At that point, we issued recommendations for technology. Its critical to save lives. Sen. Klobuchar very good. I appreciate that and will follow up in writing. Thank you, madam chair, for giving me this opportunity. Thank you. Sen. Duckworth i dont have any other senators in line to ask additional questions to you at this time. Ill begin a second round of questions. I want to follow up the simulator discussion. There are already multiple ways to get to the a. P. P. Requirement under the 1,500 hour rule. If youre a military pilot, you only need 750 hours because of the very structured training you get as a military pilot and the use of full motion simulators. If you graduate from a fouryear aviation school, many of which are very good ones in kansas, by the way, from my Ranking Member<\/a>, then you only need 1,000 hours. If because of that good structured training and the simulators that are used. If you go to a twoyear program and get an Associates Degree<\/a> in aviation, you only need 1,250 hours. Where we are now is this discussion on the 1,500 hour rule is that there is a difference of opinion on what exactly is a simulator. You cant say structured Flight Training<\/a> in a simulator will qualify you one for one, zero sum game every hour you fly in a simulator you can deduct an hour away from the 1,500 hour rule. Especially if you dont define what type of simulator that is the key thing. We know in some ways theyll fail to use the simulators ineffectively. In the ntsb covid incident it was Found Company<\/a> training did not have part of their Simulator Training<\/a> at the time of the accident, procedures for how to deal with a stick pusher system to overcome the icing condition. Even though they had simulators. I think if we talk about simulators, we need to specifically say full motion, full immersion, level d Flight Simulator<\/a>. Mr. Ambrosey, instead of putting trainer simulating against flight hours, would you support additional training hour requirements to ensure all atp Certificate Holders<\/a> in addition to learning 1,500 flying in an aircraft gain an experience flying in type d with recreating flight conditions in the most daunting and dire situations . Mr. Ambrosi the short answer is yes but if i may, congress and through this f. A. A. 2010 bill has created the safest system out there. We have a 99. 8 reduction as you indicated earlier. Also in that bill congress had the foresight to say if Technology Comes<\/a> along there is a process to look through it as was said earlier. There needs to be no change in legislation. Were in the right place here. Its in all of the above. I completely agree with you on the level of simulation. There are industries today trying to walk back that level of simulation you just discussed by saying maneuvers that were intended to be done in a full flight six degree motion simulator are now being performed in a level 7 training device. If airlines are already trying to save money walking back already in that, i agree with your sentiment we need to absolutely make sure any Simulator Training<\/a> is performed in the best simulators. Sen. Duckworth mr. Babbitt, youre nodding. Mr. Babbitt we have the technologies to do the various things you discussed. I will let you know there are places where different types of simulation become important. If youve got to Flight Training<\/a> you need to sit in a 17 million simulator to figure out where the switches are . No, you dont. You can sit in the stationary device and learn. Does it count the same . No, it does not but i would add it is helpful. But i do think and the arcs we have seen, curriculums and maneuvers and the simulation, its filled out and i agree with captain ambrosi, its in front of us and we need to adopt it. Sen. Duckworth those lower level Flight Simulator<\/a>s, after i was wounded and working on getting my private license, even though i was a helicopter pilot, i had to do takeoffs and landings and i dont wear a right leg and had to learn landings and did that in a red bird simulator, lower technology until i got proficient with it but none of the time counted to the minimum amount of time we need. You dont subtract that time but in addition. I proposed the experienced pilots save lives act and my bill would build on being more clear what type of training you need before you become a first officer with an atp. We need 900 hours of crosscountry flight time and 200 hours total should be night flight time and 375 hours of flight time in a classic airplane which youre seeking your rating and intimate hours of actual flight time and 200 hours of crosscountry air time as a pilot in command or second in command of performing duties of a p. I. C. Under duty of p. I. C. And hours of flight time at night. We want flight time that is appropriate. But you dont want to do that in a simulator either. Thats part of the discussion we need to have. How do we get to 1,500 hours and get to that first officer seat in a commercial airliner, whether its a regional jet or 737 or whatever that is and have to do that in a way that can put you with the safest pilot as possible. Im concerned were doing a one for one swap without fairly stating exactly what type of simulator is being used and what type of training is being used. And mr. Babbitt, would you associate yourself with my assessment, its important as to what type of simulator . Mr. Babbitt i can tell you from industry if youre not specific theyll go to the minimum. We need to spell out what needs to be done and the level of simulation and what structure, any training youre referring or if you leave it nebulous, x credit or who knows what, theyll make it a race to the bottom. And i agree, you have to be Crystal Clear<\/a> on the quality of the simulation gets you so much and as i mentioned earlier, the arcs have defined it. But with simulation, youre teaching a technique. This is how you do this and can you do it without dangering if you make a mistake, so the simulator crashes and nobody gets hurt but you wont do it again. Its atechnique training and think you cant use it completely to say thats all the flight time i need. Thats not accurate either. Its a great training tool and great exposure. Youve seen it before in simulation and youre prepared when it happens. An early pilot told me a long time ago, a good pilot is a never surprised pilot. Sen. Duckworth ill give you extra time. Mr. Santa, i want to get back to the crew rest idea. We understand and base aircrew rest on scientific methods mr. Ambrosi mentioned and thats really important. I remember when at walter reed, one of my first surgeries i was conscious and going into surgery for, a 14 hour surgery and my surgeon came up to me as they were putting the anesthetic in me that would put me under and say ive been planning this all week and know exactly what im going to do, its going to be a 1418 hour surgery and well take care of you and it will be great. Ive been up all night thinking about this. And about as i was to go to sleep, i was thinking did you get any sleep, doc. I would feel better knowing youve gotten some sleep. I want, mr. Santa, to give you time to talk about this rest issue. I believe weve gone to a point with air Traffic Control<\/a>lers because theres such staffing shortages and demand, were going with the minimum rest required in order to give someone before they show up to work the next day and that minimum should not become the standard. Mr. Santa i thank you for the time. I want to clarify, our schedules are in accordance with the rule to allow enough rest. Its the expansion of 10hour days and sixday workweeks that exacerbate fatigue and introduce potential risks. With a fully functioning and fully staffed air Traffic Control<\/a> facility, that would be lessoned. The f. A. A. s chronic statement is we can get more productivity out of our controllers and we need to change the schedules of our controllers. No. The answer is not continuing to burden us with more fatigue and continuing to burden us with more effort and work, its hiring the right amount of controllers so our facilities are not 70 and 60 and 80 staffed. Its untenable and needs to be corrected through hiring and not changing the standards. Sen. Duckworth thank you. Senator cruz is recognized for five minutes. Sen. Cruz thank you, madam chair. Id like to start off with mr. Arel. For the past decade the f. A. A. Has met or nearly met its hiring goal for air Traffic Control<\/a>lers. This year the f. A. A. Hired 1,500 controllers to go through the a. C. T. Academy and next year that number will be 1,800 but 30 are likely to wash out and add in retirements and other constraints and how many controllers will we be at next year . Mr. Arel repeat the question, how many total . Sen. Cruz how many next year . Mr. Arel we expect to be over 1100 certified controllers and work up and continue to hire at the maximum rate of 10,800 or slightly better in the near future. Sen. Cruz it would take 10 years to meet the need given its a multiyear process to initial hiring to become a fully certified controller. Would an additional Training Facility<\/a> help boost capacity and improve retention and performance of the work force . Senator, one of the challenges we have is not the physical space or the space of the academy but those retired and can provide the teaching and where the academy might be. What were exploring is augmenting the training in our academy for upper radar classes to other federal facilities and freeing up that finite number of instructors able to provide that instruction focusing on new hires at the academy. S sen. Cruz a number of a. T. P. Facilities are understaffed with terminal or rate control at 54 . Given that a majority of the critical a. T. C. Facilities are understaffed, are you concerned about the impact of the safety absolutely. I am worried about safety. What is happening from the staffing shortages that air Traffic Control<\/a>lers are being required to do mandatory overtime and what happens with that, it ends up leading to fatigue and distraction, which is exactly what we are seeing as part of these incident investigations. It all just comes down to the shortage of staffing. You recently said the faa certification has not kept up with that science of Mental Health<\/a> and modern attitudes and calls it an open secret that current rules incentivize pilots to lie about Mental Health<\/a> history to avoid seeking help. Yesterday i sent you a letter expressing my concern about this issue and asking what safety changes should be made. Does the faa and ntsb have a full understanding about how pervasive pilot Mental Health<\/a> issues are . If we just took the cdc numbers of one in five u. S. Adults live with a Mental Health<\/a> challenge, that is 58 million americans and then we look at that faa statistics that show there are seven 157,000 spot 757,000 pilots. People are suffering in silence. It is concerning that alpha and the faa refused to comply with the Study Congress<\/a> asked for in the 2018 reauthorization. The faa and elva deliberately stood in the way by refusing to provide data owned by the federal government needed for the report. I would reconsider your refusal to cooperate. In october an air line pilot tried to crash the airplane. He claims to have been suffering from mental issues and had taken psychedelic mushrooms prior. Do you know when that pilot was last drug tested . I do not. Does also support additional drug testing requirements for pilots to make sure they have not used substances before they fly . The ongoing Drug Testing Program<\/a> is reviewed regularly. I am not an expert on that program but pilots are one of the highly most highly scrutinized professions. Line checks, line observations, i share your outrage at this extremely rare incident, but it calls for a panel to discuss Mental Health<\/a>. Why did elsa refuse to cooperate with the study . I think they Hence Program<\/a> is being conflated with pilot Mental Health<\/a>. The program is an occupational Substance Abuse<\/a> and Treatment Program<\/a> and we did cooperate with the academy. However, as the study notes, alpha is not the owner of that database. I received your letter yesterday and i am happy to do more research on it and reply in writing and meet with your team to discuss further. I appreciate that. Senator thune. The wider use of new technology will continue to improve Situational Awareness<\/a> and i see it playing a crucial role in turning more wellrounded pilots. The last thing this committee should do is remain complacent. We want to create a two enhanced qualification program. This paired with advanced Simulator Training<\/a> will expose trainees to the competent jets they would actually be flying and allow them to experience what it is like to handle challenging and dangerous situations in the cockpit. Your letter calling on congress to expand the use stated requiring the proceeded repeated practice of recovering from real world accidents will make better pilots. Can you elaborate on why this use is so crucial for training wellrounded pilots . I think the ability we have today with a lot of the simulation exposes pilots to situations they simply would not put them in. We killed a number of pilots in the past doing simulations on crashes. If they did not do well, they died. So we have improve that. The thing in the simulation world is the ability to put people in a competent environment, you have 1500 hrs, is any of that with another pilot . Are you always pilot command . You will be in a crew situation and you need to understand it crew Resource Management<\/a> and what happens when the captain suggests something you do not think is correct, have you learned how to deal with that in the simulator . I think this leads to much better training, they have been exposed to many things they simply will not be exposed to. Are you flying through a heavy thunderstorm and hail . No. These put us in situations where you can learn, i see what happened, i wont do that again. Myself as an example, 1981 there was a tragic accident of windshear in dallasfort worth and every pilot in this country had to go get an hour in the simulator because airbus, boeing, the faa changed the technique to recover from stalls. Everyone in this country had to do an hour in the simulator and i remember mine. We crashed. So now we will use a new technique. We learned it and it was great exposure and we learned so much and windshear is not the problem it was back then. Simulation adds a huge layer of learning and expertise and coordination to the safety. Thank you. I fully recognize the value of comput cockpit experience. There is concern of flight hours does not provide trainees for the unexpected potentially dangerous scenarios. Do you see a role for the enhanced use of new technologies, include full Flight Simulator<\/a>s to improve training . Yes, there is always a role for simulators in parts of training but the most realistic in aerialbased training, pilots become proficient. Thank you. If i could come up during my time as cheryl of this committee, we considered the reauthorization act in 2018 and included prioritization of nexgen upgrades to bolster the air Traffic Control<\/a> system. These upgrades in addition to employing concepts will allow the United States<\/a> better to utilize infrastructure permit increasing efficiency. Airports across the country have highlighted the need of modernization. What tech upgrade should be prioritized to avoid preventable incidents like those we have seen . Anything that helps increase Situational Awareness<\/a> for anyone involved is a great improvement. The agency is in the process of doing a technology sprints, launching three areas of technology it can be programmed locally to detect wrong surface landing, another will provide audio and visual for the controllers if they were to claire dust clears someone on a runway where there is other activity. And awareness for rapid acquisition for commercially Available Services<\/a> that provide Situational Awareness<\/a> similar to what a pilot can bring into their aircraft now. So it increases sharing and realtime exchange of data between aircraft operators and air Traffic Control<\/a>lers and provide the Situational Awareness<\/a>. I have some additional questions i would like to submit for the record. Without objection. Thank you all for being here. This certainly is a timely opportunity to make sure we get the broader population of the world educated. The cost to build a Traditional Air<\/a> Traffic Control<\/a> tower can reach up to 20 million. In Rural Communities<\/a> this can be a real impediment. We have the Northern Colorado<\/a> Regional Airport<\/a> which is going out to build their own towel to attract a new reliable air service from airlines by making sure they install a remote tower project. So it if approved by the faa this will without question grow the local economy. It is important the faa safely in a great leadingedge technology in the Aviation System<\/a>s so what are they doing to spur innovation, safety, in these Regional Airport<\/a>s that play such a big role such as Northern Colorado<\/a> airport in pursuing a remote tower project . My Organization Works<\/a> closely with nexgen organizations. Initial technology evaluated to date had some shortfalls. We want to make sure the system works and is reliable and provides the equivalent level of safety we see in the staff tower. We see promise and we continue to do that work, our office is bringing Additional Technology<\/a> into our center in new jersey, to build that part level of contrast to build that level of trust. Anything i say, safety first is pretty much the mantra i expect and what we have been hearing. The recent runway near misses of close to catastrophic proportions seem to be increasing at an alarming rate. September Denver International<\/a> airport opened a new taxiway that hopefully will eliminate what they call a hot where aircraft volume has increased risk of collisions. The infrastructure law continues to make investments to improve lighting, runways, safety, infrastructure. Which best practices does the ntsb recommend that airports should implement following the recent runway safety meetings. I see this happening nationwide. We do not have any current recommendations on that. I think we have a past recommendation that was closed and i will be happy to get that to you. Great. It is obviously a National Issue<\/a> and i think the more ways to look at it, the more successful it will be. The bureau of labor statistics estimates that will be a 13 increase in the need for pilots by 2030. Some people think that might be conservative. Aviation is a key part of our economy, job growth and it affects a lot of other elements of our economy. Along the many pathways available for inspiring people to become certified pilots, airlines have academies to further increase available training to young pilots. In denver we have metropolitan state university, the First University<\/a> in colorado to be accredited by the faa to offer aspiring pilots to achieve restricted pilot certificates. And partnering with affiliate flight schools in the greater metro area. Would you describe, could you describe the impact the University Programs<\/a> have on growing the pipeline of training pilots . There is more than one pathway to getting the atp and having the Academic Program<\/a> such as that, a twoyear degree gets you a 250 hour reduction, a four year degree gets you a 500 hour reduction. The pilots are learning more and getting more credits towards the program. It is a great pipeline. It is good to be a pilot right now and people are coming to the schools rapidly to be part of this occupation so it is an essential part of what we do to get pilots in the pipeline. I was impressed when i looked at what they were doing, a great source of optimism. Thank you for all of the work you are doing to keep the skies safe. I yield back. Thank you for holding this incredibly important hearing. I share my colleagues concerns about the number of near misses that have impacted my home state of massachusetts as well. In late february, two planes nearly collided at Logan Airport<\/a> when one tried to take off when the other was landing. In march the wings of two united airplanes clipped each other. Flight crews are understandably worried about the safety of u. S. Air travel. I understand the National Transportation<\/a> safety board investigated the near best at logan from february. Can you provide an update on that . We issued a final report on that investigation and the hop a flight pilot thought he heard he could go forward. He had been told to line up and wait. He began to take off. He reported to us that he was not feeling well that day and that possibly he was experiencing some things from the cold weather in boston. How do you correct that with that pilot . He misheard instruction . There has been a lot of fatigue, distraction. Pilots mishearing instructions and all of the investigations we are conducting. The one thing that is good at your airport is that you have dx, which alerts controllers there is an impending collision. It should be mandatory at medium and large sized airport. Would that have saved us at logan . Yes. We need robust sustainable funding for the faa. When you are driving a car and the driver makes a mistake, the airbag is still there. So thats what this is, a safety extra safety measure. That is something we absolutely should be talking about and i am glad that the ntsb is investigating these incidents. I want to turn to another threat of aviation safety, Climate Change<\/a>, increased turbulence in the skies, there are already serious conversations in the consequences in the Aviation System<\/a>. Massachusetts is threatened by ocean level rise. Boston harbor is the second fastest warming body of water. American airports are not ready for Climate Change<\/a>. If we do not invest in Climate Resilience<\/a> at the airports, we are in for a bumpy ride. To each of our witnesses, do you agree that Climate Change<\/a> is a significant threat to aviation safety . I am not a Climate Change<\/a> experts, but i agree. Yes. We agree and pilots do a lot to try to minimize Carbon Emissions<\/a> and noise so we are an active participants in trying to reduce greenhouse gases. As an air Traffic Control<\/a>ler, it really has not impacted us at all. Personally i believe in Climate Change<\/a> but as an air Traffic Control<\/a>ler, i cannot say. You are seeing more violent weather and slowly rising temperatures, a lot of people dont know but as the temperature gets higher, the aircraft needs a longer runway and so you are pushing the envelope there. Senator, we have seen a significant increase in Severe Weather<\/a> this summer and we join you in supporting anything we can do to minimize the impact. We can see the resiliency act is coming, bipartisan, and we need to have more protection and the airport resiliency act aimed to improve the overall resiliency and todays hearing would be incomplete if we did not discuss the role the Airport Service<\/a> workers play in keeping our airports safe. Gait attendance, wheelchair attendance. By providing Airport Service<\/a> workers a living wage and benefits we would ensure that airports have well, experienced workforce to respond to emergency situations. When we shortchange those workers, we leave our airports and passengers vulnerable. This morning i rallied with Airport Service<\/a> workers and called on congress to pass the good jobs for good airports act and that will ensure the Hidden Figures<\/a> at the airport will ensure the planes can take off each day and safely get good wages and Health Care Benefits<\/a> and sick time, which they do not get now so we have to make sure all of the federal money we send to airports gets fairly distributed. We see how hard they worked during the pandemic and the risks to their health they took. We have to rectify the historic imbalance in terms of how Much Airlines<\/a> profit and how much the workers are being left out to dry. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, senator. There are many things we can do to improve the safety of our Aviation System<\/a> in this country, which is the Global Leader<\/a> in safety when it comes to commercial aviation operations. We must address this with a sense of urgency to prevent future incidents. Workforce shortages for air Traffic Control<\/a>lers, shortages and pilots, maintenance workers, the pending faa reauthorization legislation addresses this. In partnership with my Ranking Member<\/a> we have triple the finding in this reauthorization bill for pilots, maintenance workers, air Traffic Control<\/a>lers, all the programs. In the midst of this discussion, reducing the amount of [indiscernible] is the wrong idea at the wrong time. The 1500 hour rule came about after the postcovid. Congress went to airlines and said what is the minimum number of flight hours that was needed and they said 1500 hrs. That number was reached through consultation with commercial air carriers and that level has kept the flying public safe in the years since. There were already multiple ways to become to get the atp. Not every pilot that ends up in a commercial airline has 1500 hrs. You can be a military pilot at 750 hours. An Aeronautical Program<\/a> with 1000 hours. You can attend a great two year program, we have many in illinois. 550 hours. For those who just go to the local fbo and go to fly, which is a valid way, 1500 hrs. Rather than watering down the existing status we must always look to enhance aviation safety. Today we discussed the fact that a simulator is not actually a simulator. We cannot forget the u. S. Can only lead in aviation if it leads in aviation safety. If we are going to talk about simulators, we need to be clear what kind we are talking about because if you just say structured training and do not define the simulator, the airlines will go with the cheapest level simulator possible and that will not benefit the public. With administrator would occur at the helm whitaker at the helm, the faa already has Legal Authority<\/a> and expertise and discretion to issue standard Pilot Training<\/a> and qualification. Faa Aviation Committee<\/a> is already looking at whether it is appropriate to create another pathway to becoming an Airline Pilot<\/a> first officer with fewer than 1500 hrs. We have the fouryear program, 1250, other programs, and the faa has the authority to create another pathway. We have an administrator, safety experts, to see if changes are required and if they are, the faa can act on it. I do not believe we need net legislative change to lower the safety bar if you are going to use language like structured Simulator Training<\/a> without defining what the simulator is. I do not think preemptively reducing the 1500 hrs recommended by the airlines and has resulted in over 10 years of safe operations is the way to go. If you are going to do it, we need to say if you get a minimum level of simulator experience, it has to be a particular kind of simulator with the most daunting and dire emergency operations. There is simulators for surgery surgeons to practice. But i will paraphrase, if we have a doctor shortage and a surgeon shortage, the solution is to say lets make medical school two years, not lets just have surgeons do training on a simulator and not actually operate on people. If we are going to put in simulators and reduce the fly hours for the first officer, lets be clear about what we are substituting it with. Lets be precise and have a curriculum. I want to thank our witnesses for their participation today. The hearing record will remain open until december 7. Any senator who wants to submit questions for the record should do so by november 23. We ask for a response by december 7, 2023 and that concludes todays hearing. 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