get us going. [noise] the subcommittee on housing, transportation, and community development will come to order. this hearing is in hybrid format. we will have witnesses testifying both in person and by video, and senators may appear in person and by video as well. i want to thank senator rounds for joining me in this bipartisan hearing, focusing on the issue of homelessness. senator rounds found out late yesterday, i think, that he is needed at an important market with the form of relations committee, so we won't be able to stay for the entire subcommittee, which we understand. thank you for being here. and thank you all to our panelists, those of you in person as well as those of you joining virtually, for being here today. so, without a safety, sit, affordable place to live, nothing in your life works. it's nearly impossible to maintain a job, go to school, or stay healthy. based on data from 2020, almost 600,000 americans experienced homelessness on any given night. with this number, 61% of those experiencing homelessness are sheltered, and another 39% are unsheltered. homelessness is a significant challenge in our country, and getting worse. while current national data is sparse, we know the number of people experiencing homelessness already too high, the again, rising again around 2015. of course, the pandemic only exacerbated the challenges that individuals and families face. but addressing homelessness is an area of bipartisan interest in the senate. for example, senator bennett and senator portman, along with our full committee chair, senator brown, to introduce the eviction crisis act, which would direct assistance to families most at risk of losing their homes, and help prevent families from becoming homeless. they are built draws on the lessons of the pandemic, and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about that important bipartisan measure. i also know that several other colleagues on the subcommittee have been working on important bills to address homelessness, and many of them, bipartisan. senator van hollen leads senator young for opportunities with family mobility. senator reed and collins worked together for years to strengthen the united states inter agency council on homelessness. and while it's outside the subcommittees jurisdiction, senator cantwell and senator young have had a bill to reform and expand the low income housing credit. these examples illustrate the bipartisan important work happening in the senate, and i look forward to hearing from the witnesses today about these pieces of legislation, and how we can work with everyone to try to advance some of these measures. it also must be acknowledged that the biggest factor in the rise and homelessness is the severe shortage of affordable housing, and the lack of housing supply. people sometimes have the misunderstanding that folks and upon housed because they experienced mental illness or substance use disorder, when the reality is that most people become ill because they don't have a safe, affordable place to live. in my view, the answers to provide shelter and housing first, and the support of services necessary to help people get stable and healthy. the backdrop to the issue of homelessness is that our nation is facing an affordable housing crisis. according to data published by the national low income housing coalition, not one state in our country has an adequate supply of affordable rental housing for the lowest income renters. in fact, for the 1.8 million families with extremely low incomes in the united states, there is a shortage of more than 7 million affordable homes. this is an incredibly alarming problem that we all face in every part of the country. the challenge, finally, and keeping a safe, affordable place to live, is real and every part, urban, suburban, and rural, affects everyone. however, homelessness also disproportionately affects some communities more than others, including black, latino, and native communities. the mom home state of minnesota, where native americans make up about 1% of the adult population, the 2018 statewide homelessness study found that native americans make up 12% of the adults experiencing homelessness. the experience of native people in tribes around homelessness led me to partner with senator murkowski, ranking member of the indian affairs committee, to write and pass the bipartisan tribal and housing assistance act. it makes tribes a little trouble for -- homeless assistance funds through the continuing care program. we are now focused on implementing this law, and hope to hear today what we can do to make sure it's a successful. additionally, homelessness remains a significant challenge for veterans. no one who serves our country should ever find themselves without a safe, decent place to call home. in recent years, bipartisan efforts have sharply reduced the rate of homelessness among veterans, but this war we must do. i know this is a priority for senator rounds, and i look forward to working with you on this issue, as well as a tribal and native housing issues that you and i have collaborated on frequently. homelessness is not only a housing crisis, but also a public health crisis. as a lack of housing exacerbates health challenges. simply put, housing is a social determinants of health. but covid 19 public health emergency created new challenges for unhoused people, both for people living in congregate shelters, where there were deep worries about safety in public health, as well as people without any shelter at all. the cares act and the american rescue plan provided billions of dollars in emergency solution grants, rental assistance, and homeowner assistance, to help people avoid foreclosure and keep them in their homes. this emergency funded directed to states and local providers made a huge difference, keeping people healthy, safe, and sheltered. and they created opportunities for community organizations to improvise and innovate. however, much of that funding is now coming to an end. i hope that today, we can hear both what we've learned from the last two years in terms of innovative strategies that have worked, and also what our experience has been, whatever experience tells us about the importance of adequate funding for homelessness prevention efforts. i often hear from people who work in this field that we know what to do to solve this problem, we just need the will to fix it. we have data driven strategies that have proven effective at addressing homelessness in recent years. we have seen this in veterans, addressing veterans homelessness in my home state of minnesota. the housing first model builds on what we know, that if you don't have, again, a safe, stable place to call home, it's very hard to hold on to a job, go to school, or get the health care that you need. it has been successful in reducing homelessness in many parts of the country, and i believe that we should build on its success. addressing homelessness has long been an issue that republicans and democrats have shared concerns about. i hope that in this hearing, we can continue this bipartisan work and look for concrete steps to take together to address this challenge, with comprehensive approach, effective strategies, and the resources we need. thank you, and i now turn to senator rounds for your opening statement. >> thank, you chairwoman smith. once again, i apologize for having to leave early. we have mark out in the section into nato for sweden and finland this afternoon, and this is one that we wants to move forward on rather quickly. first off, i would like to thank our witnesses for taking the time to be here today, especially jamie, who is coming to us from rapid city, south dakota, this afternoon. from sioux falls to washington, d.c., to los angeles, americans are experiencing growing housing insecurity. homelessness implicates several critical issues. americas acute shortage of affordable homes, behavioral and physical health challenges, addiction and domestic abuse and violence. therefore, the need goes beyond just a safe place to stay. individuals also need supportive services. whether it is clinical help, career coaching, or case management, so they can break the cycle of homelessness. that's why organizations like journey on, which is successfully working and rapid city, as well as the dough fund in new york, haven't expanding the right of supportive services, including job training, childcare, and others that are successfully going well beyond shelter. journey on successfully partners with law enforcement in south city, south dakota, to provide social services where -- shelter unsheltered individuals. however, journey on, like many nonprofits across the nation, have run into mounds of government red tape. even when they have received federal dollars, the money takes too long to be released, and the paperwork burden is onerous. we should be removing barriers to address homelessness, not creating new ones. over the last decade, -- has pursued a housing first approach to helping homeless individuals with families obtain stable housing as quickly as possible, without barriers or preconditions. however, the housing first model often ignores the underlying causes of homelessness, and our only proven to be effective at curbing homelessness at the individual level, rather that the broader community level. hud now allocates roughly 75% of all competitive grants to permanent supportive housing projects, even though these projects were originally intended to serve just a portion of the total homeless population, who are chronically homeless. this sole reliance on housing first has prevented federal assistance for any alternative approaches by housing providers that may better address local housing needs. the doe funds based in new york city, for operating the shun wide, is a stunning example of how federal policy disadvantages organizations that have made incredible strides and combining stable housing, dignified work, and life coaching to improve their clients lives. in analysis of the funds work, in 2020, 82%, that's 82% of graduates, maintains their jobs months after leaving the program, and the average starting wage of $16.60. for every dollar, that new york city taxpayers spent on the program, they saved an hour of $3.60 it costs remember can see city services and criminal justice costs. these successes raise serious questions of how we prioritize federal funding. although a housing force model may be effective in some cases, a one size fits all solution is not the answer. we should instead give communities flexibility to implement interventions to address their issues. we also need greater local level accountability with the continuum of care funding distribution model used by hug to make more homeless dollars used to those with the greatest needs. and targeted government spending is particularly inappropriate at a time of elevated inflation. hud should put into place performance measures that indicate whether the program is succeeding or failing, and reducing the number of people experiencing homelessness. veterans represent a unique subgroup of the entire homeless population, as they are eligible for specialized federal programs and benefits. despite tremendous success in reducing the number of homeless veterans over the last decade, tangible impediments remain in securing adequate housing for this group, including a severe shortage of affordable homes, under utilization of the hud vouchers, and a lack of va support and medical staff. every single veteran should have a place to call home. this is why i have sponsored legislation like that reducing veteran homelessness act, which would make much needed improvements to both the hud dash and the grant programs, to make sure that every veteran has the resources they need to find a home. nationwide, native americans have the second highest rate of homelessness according to the national alliance to end homelessness is 2020 state of the homelessness report. reservation, furthermore, for those native americans who live on the reservation, traditional homelessness tends to not be as big of a problem as under housing and overcrowding. according to a 2017 urban institute report, 16% of tribal area households were overcrowded, and 6% or severely overcrowded. overall, there is a major lack of reliable data and research on native homelessness and overcrowding, and it's something i believe hud should prioritize. once again, i want to thank madam chair for holding this important hearing, and i look forward to this discussion on how to address homelessness in america, especially among our native and veteran populations. this is one area where republicans and democrats really do work together in a bipartisan fashion, and it's one area that i really think we can find additional success. thank you, madam chair. >> thank you, senator rounds. i am not going to introduce our witnesses. i will introduce all five of you, and turn to each to make your opening statements. we have three witnesses who are with us in person today. and oliva, who is the chief executive officer of the national alliance to end homelessness, isabella mcdavid, who is the cofounder and board president of work what works america, catherine america, national coalition for homeless veterans, and joining us remotely, we have cassie and brooke, assistant commissioner and executive director in the minnesota inter agency council on homelessness, and jamie kershaw, board member from journey on, based in rapid city, south dakota. welcome, and thank you all for your willingness to speak with us today. i look forward to hearing from each of you. before you begin your opening statements, i just have a few reminders. four witnesses and senators joining us by video, once you start speaking, there will be a slight delay before you are displayed on the screen, to minimize background noise, please click the mute button, until it is your turn to speak or ask questions. you should all have one box on your screens labeled clock, that will show you how much time is remaining. for all witnesses, you will have five minutes for your opening statements, your full, written statement will be made part of the record. for all senators, the five minute clock applies to your questions. if there is any technology issue, we will move on to the next witness until we get a figured out. and for that information, senators, we will have opportunities for everybody to ask all of your questions during the course of this hearing. i am happy to stay here as long as peoples questions are still ready to be answered. and i will now turn to miss oliva, for five minutes of opening statements. >> thank you so much. chairwoman smith, ranking member rounds, and members of the subcommittee, again, my aim is ann oliva i am the ceo of the national alliance to end homelessness, and a board member of true colors united. thank you again for having me testify today. i want to commend the subcommittee for the housing related relief measures in that that during the pandemic. i want to talk about the positive results of those investments momentarily, but first, i want to start with the data. all the reliable evidence tells us the situation for people experiencing homelessness it's incredibly urgent. the homelessness crisis, which predates the pandemic, will persist without serious intervention. in 2020, hud reported two unfortunate firsts. we saw an increase in the number of people and families living unsheltered. and, we solve the number of individuals living on the streets exceed the number of individuals living in shelters for the first time. more than 580,000 people experienced homelessness on a single night in january 2020, and one in the half million people experienced sheltered homelessness at sometime in 2018. people of color and historically marginalized people are disproportionately impacted by homelessness. families experiencing homelessness are typically headed by women. many are headed by young parents, and they include a high percentage of young children. youth, veterans, and adults experience and chronic homelessness are suffering on our streets and in our shelters every day. and they the shows that more than half of shelter people and 40% of until three people work, but still can't afford housing. most continuum of care that we surveyed believed that consulted homelessness has increased. homelessnessbut our informatione field also indicates the number of families experiencing homelessness seems to have decreased during the pandemic. this is likely the result of pandemic relief measures like the tax credits, unemployment insurance, supplements, emergency rental assistance, the eviction moratorium, and other steps that the federal government took to protect extremely low income families from the impact of the pandemic. those programs worked. but as those policies and investments and, at the same time that we see rents skyrocket nationwide, we can expect to see negative consequences if we fail to act. skyrocketing rents make it harder to high low income people to stay in their homes, create bigger challenges for people exiting in our serration systems like the child welfare system, and make it even more difficult for people to get experiencing homelessness into safe and affordable housing. the inability of people to afford housing is the major driver of homelessness. people experiencing homelessness do absolutely want and need other resources like health and behavioral health services and employment services, no doubt. but a safe, stable, and affordable place to live and homelessness and provides the foundation for achieving other life goals. the housing investments made as part of the nation's pandemic response helped people across the country to keep or get into housing. for example, about 3.8 billion households received emergency rental assistance, so they could stay in their homes. nearly 90% of the 70,000 emergency housing vouchers for household experiencing or at risk of homelessness have been issued or least. we can learn from what has worked and what hasn't, as we look to the future, but given the circumstances, we know that these programs are not enough. we are facing daunting challenges. rising rents and low vacancy rates make finding and keeping permanent housing more difficult for homeless and at risk people. homeless systems can significantly report staffing challenges like shortages, high turnover, and burn out. linking mainstream health and behavioral health services with housing can be a challenge, and criminalization of people experiencing homelessness is rising. as you mentioned, we know what works. making evidence based policy decisions in addition to sustained investments in housing and services at the national level is critical. this includes protecting the affordable housing stock we have, increasing supply, increasing affordability by expanding the housing choice voucher program, and making the services people want and need more accessible. and further, it means supporting evidence based approaches that prioritize permanent housing and choice of the foundation for healing from the trauma of homelessness. it also means partnering with people who have lived experience, so changes we make are informed by real world and practical expertise. the information we have tells us that the public wants an end to homelessness, not by criminalizing people, but by implementing sound housing and services allusion so that people can thrive. we know how to do that. thank you, and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. we will now turn to miss mcdavid. >> thank you so much. thank you so much to the committee for hosting us today. my name is isabel mcdevitt, and i am the founder and co-chair of work works america, and i have worked since 2008 in cities like new york, philadelphia, and denver, colorado. i am here today to talk to you about the work works model as an example of how we need to expand our tool kit to address homelessness in cities across this country. thank you for my fellow witness and for both senator smith and senator rounds for your introductions. i do not need to tack on more around the need. but what i do want to talk about its solutions. what we need to do to expand our response. the work works model was founded 30 years ago in new york city by the doe funds, and it has since been scaled to six communities nationwide. we regularly get requests for many, many more. we are in atlanta, georgia, colorado, philadelphia, and working on denton, texas, and portland, maine. what we know is that a combination of paid work and social enterprise, coupled with transitional, safe supportive housing, and support services, is fundamental for people experiencing homelessness that are not qualifying for other resources. in a hud report earlier this year through the house america program, it was indicate that for adults experiencing homelessness, we only have 15 units for 100 people on the street. this is both an eligibility issue and and availability issue. so,. yes we need to expand access. what i have seen by running services on the ground, particularly in my work in colorado, or i found a ready to work program, we see that as a shelter provider, essentially, it breaks down a third, a third, a third. a third of people come in, self resolve, you don't see them for more than a couple of days. they're on their way. a third are eligible for a lot of the hud funds programs you heard about today. so -- and so forth. but what about that middle third? that's where i ask you today to think about expanding our response. most importantly, two key factors. looking at policy and expanding the ability to act quickly and swiftly, with creative models. so, this means flexibility about what we define as housing. there are people on the streets that would prefer to live in a co-op, would prefer to live in a tiny home, and frankly, that could be much more practical to implement on the grounds. secondly, let's share our response with other players. so, the u.s. inter agency council on homelessness already has a formats for doing that. let's engage other agencies beyond doe hud, a department of labor, department of justice to look at these populations that are disproportionately represented in our homeless populations across this country. the work works model is one example, and what i will say it's a great example of how, with creativity, we can leverage public, private, partnerships and bring models to cities across america. the work works model, as i, said can be combined with paid work and social enterprise. what that means is people are going to work. they are earning money. they are saving money, and they are preparing to re-enter the mainstream workforce. we all know we have a labor shortage. so, why aren't we creating ways to reach and to marginalized communities with not only access, but good, better paying jobs to meet our labor needs? this is an untapped population. the second leg of the work works model is housing. in colorado, we renovated office buildings into high quality dormitory housing, with privacy as well as community space. we did it in 16 months into different locations in colorado. we renovated pre-existing commercial real estate. that is something we should be looking at as another tool in the tool kit. it is wonderful to built from the ground up, but what about the cost? what about the timeline? what about all the issues with? and this is a model that is just one example of how we need to get creative. and lastly, connections to supportive services. we see incredible challenges on the grounds related to opioid use, related to all types of behavioral health concerns, and the public crisis of just being on the streets. we can cut homelessness, the length of homelessness, in half, or even less, or we can be swift and respond so much more quickly if we have more tools in our tool kit. so, i asked this committee to really think through those two key points. how can we look at our policies and expand our ability to act, and second, how can we bring more players to the table? our communities need, it and we need to promote innovation on the ground, because our communities know what they need. they need more tools to be able to help them get there. so, thank you so much, and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. miss monet? >> thank you for the opportunity to join you today. as you all know, 82 communities and to -- have a chief the federal bench marks a criteria for ending veteran homelessness, but they're still 37,000 -- homeless veterans on any given that in 2020. when we think about how we got to that point, we know that decreases and veteran homelessness, we are due in large part two congressional investment in key federal programs implementation of evidence based solutions like housing first, and dedicated coordination at the national and local level. homelessness is caused by a fundamental mismatch between the availability of affordable housing in a communities market and individuals ability to pay for that housing. in this mismatch, paired with the results of systemic and institutional racism, has been the major driver for the nation might rise and housing instability, particularly among marginalized and minorities people and veterans alike. during the pandemic, what we saw in the veteran space was that homeless service providers pivoted the programming. a renationalize possible for veterans. they reconfigured a whole lot of congregate transitional housing, and they worked so hard to keep veterans in the community safe and moved on the permanent housing. the confluence of rising inflation rates and our current economy, and the affording housing affordability crisis we are seeing here with the winding down of pandemic assistance programs like e.r.a. and many communities creates this perfect storm where we will see homelessness increase if we do nothing. in my opinion, that was the time we need to create permanency among programs, particularly those for va, they have continued on these 90-day extensions because they were authorized, and that authorization is actually tied to the end of the public state or local health emergency. we need to continue to implement lessons we have learned during the pandemic, and we also need to double that to address persistent barriers that slow the housing business processing and -- further amenities. it is no secret that normal, pre-pandemic was not really a great normal for a lot of people who are facing housing instability. homelessness is a symptom of those challenges, right? when we think about the growth of unsheltered population, we do need to focus on crisis response services like shelter and outrage. really, we need to address the root causes. so, we need to think about how we can develop more affordable housing, address affordability rather than thinking about ways that we can utilize law enforcement as the default response to a social problem. housing affordability, i think, it's the number one challenge we hear from our members who are working with veterans who are excellent homelessness. nationwide, they are approximately 36 affordable units for every 100 individuals searching. that is a recipe for disaster. the housing shortage is actually driven nationwide rent increases, and we have seen that ransom have increased by over 70%, just on 21 alone. i think that by another 5% this year, until july one. i think what we see is the shortage of eunice was really going to increase the risk in just creating a whole lot of pressure for folks out there looking for housing. we know, and i am telling you this again, i hope you are hearing me, invest in affordable housing, please. congressional support for va homelessness programs is really great during the pandemic. it created flexibility. it offered new spending authorities to meet the merchant needs, and it ran to look pass at the every eight programs during the pandemic. but during sufficient funding must be incorporated permanently into non emergency appropriations and authorization caps to maintain our ability to respond effectively, as we move away from covid specific emergency funding. the gp d program, which is the eighth transitional housing program, awarded two rounds of capital to congregate facilities during covid, and we think those grants should be continued enhanced. we think that daily rate must be addressed. at the sense of the public health emergency, the maximum reimbursement rate will drop from $152 a day to $60 a day, and that is a rave as designed to provide overnight housing, meals, and wraparound services and support for homeless veterans. we recommend that you pass this 21 72 to it directly address these issues immediately. the sdf program such as the initiative has recently been expanded, due to its success during the pandemic, and we supported expansion recommend further study so we continue to improve this program. i do want to just touch quickly on the -- because it has been fairly successful at meeting the acute needs of veterans. however, i do think that va has really struggled with offering case management services to veterans. despite the programs successes, we do think that there is more va can do to diversify the options there and also to think about contracting and doing other things to staff up. the second challenge they are facing with this program as vouchers are just more challenging to use because of the housing affordability crisis and the stigma that some landlords have against accepting vouchers as a form of rental payment. the last thing i do want to say is that staffing for both va and its guarantees remains a challenge. there are only so many qualified providers in many regions to a certain degree, they are competing for the same amount of talent, or the same talent that exists in the pool. so, we do think congress needs to look at how they can support va and providers to address this challenge. thank you for your continued interest in addressing federal homelessness. >> thank you so much, miss monet. we will now turn to, let me just, mister chair. [laughs] i am really delighted that we are joined by the big chair of the banking housing committing, and thank you for being with us, senator brown. we'd like to share, if you will? >> thank you, senator smith and madam chairman. thank you for your work on the veterans committee and on your comments about how important that is. i apologize for not being able to stay, but i just wanted to think, i wanted to stop by and thank chair smith and ranking member rounds for the terrific work they. do they work together as well, bipartisan -- chair, vice chair, i have seen in this institution, and i appreciate them for them. jack reed has been working on combatting homelessness almost as long as tina and i have been alive. so certainly -- >> before we were in the senate. >> before we were in the senate, so thank you for that. this is a serious public health issue that i am hopeful we can address, if not, in this reconciliation package that i wrote for sure. thank. you >> thank you, mister chair. >> we will now turn to miss kathy thunberg, who joins us remotely. i am delighted to have kathy join us as well. we have had the opportunity to work together on a variety of environments over the gears, so, welcome, cathy. >> thank you very much. chairwoman smith, ranking member rounds, and member of the senate subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. i am kathy ten, brook assistant commissioner and director of minnesota's inter agency council on homelessness, and the council's a cabinet level body led by our you tenant governor, comprised of the leaders of 13 state agencies. minnesota has a strong history of bipartisan leader on homelessness. i fork on the issue for nearly 30 years, and direct service and public policy roles. and witness progress, miss opportunities, lessons learned, and heartbreak. we have, in this moment, a critical opportunity to shift how we respond to homelessness and to see this as a crisis and they public ultimately that it is. today, i want to share with you what's working in minnesota and where challenges remain. minnesota is home to 87 counties and 11 tribal nations. almost homelessness impacts every part of the state. approximately 38,000 people are homeless on a given night. half of our families with children, and for the records that are people without children, stelter, sleeping outside. approximately 40% of all people identified as homeless are in rural parts of our state. one in fort minnesota households pays more than they can afford for housing, putting them at risk of houselessness. over the last two decades, rent rose 21%, while incomes rose by just 3%. homelessness shows the impacts of racism. in minnesota, if you are black, you are 15 times more likely to be homeless than a white minnesota. if you are native american, you are 27 times more likely to be homeless. and we're working homelessness in minnesota has shown uneven progress. we have had engagement and investments from all levels of government. we have had the greatest success, our best proof that and the home was this is possible, is our collective work to end veteran homelessness. with the dedicated resources guided by data and evidence, the outcomes have been stunning. we have effectively ended veteran homelessness in 85 of minnesota's 87 counties. being a veteran in minnesota is now a protected factor for homelessness. i look forward to the day were being a child is a protective factor. when having a serious health condition is a protective factor. and when your race does not increase your likelihood of becoming homeless the. in minnesota, we have increased resources for families and children, and that's driven up 32% decrease and family homelessness statewide in the decade starting in 2010. these productions took targeted prevention, coordination with employment services, and investment and families with the very highest barriers to accessing housing. we have learned over the years that all people are ready for housing. we need housing that is ready for them. the pandemic, devastating and traumatic, was also a moment of great learning. minnesota and federal resources helped us save lives during the pandemic. statewide, we established 2800 hotel rooms and other safe spaces to allow for physical distance, provide emergency staffing, fluids, supplies, isolation, and additional state housing support. the increased resources helped a struggling hospitality industry and expanded childcare services, created a hotel to home model, which make the people staying outside with permanent housing. in addition to the resources that helped protect people in shelters, it also had federal rental assistance during the pandemic, that was critical to stemming the tide of homelessness. minnesota administers, federal and them urgency rental assistance to our state. and if the county reported over 1000 fewer children experienced homelessness in 2021, then they did two years earlier, they credit that to the widespread availability of rental assistance. sadly, those federal resources have come to an end. we are starting to see a return to the 2019 rates of family homelessness. federal investments during the pandemic has given minnesota the opportunity to show what is possible. federal partnership in tackling the challenges ahead will be critical to our success going forward. i have four recommendations to share with you, and you will find many more details and i submitted testimony as well. one, the homeless response worked system is overwhelmed and underfunded. we need congress to make more and sustained investment and housing and homelessness programs. during the pandemic, we witnessed the lifesaving work of shelters and outreach workers, and we also know that while shelters do save lives, housing is what ends homelessness. housing is out of reach for the lowest income americans. we need congress to increase the supply of housing, as well as its affordability, by making bold investments in rental assistance. three, people with complex medical conditions including, substance use, mental illness, and other physical health issues, are not well served in existing systems or interventions. we need increased investments in a stronger alignment of social services, health care, and housing. and finally, our system -- 's prevention of homelessness for veterans works. we need to sustain that commitment, and we need to expand it to reach all populations. all of these solutions will require that we center the voices and experiences of people who have faced homelessness. they are the experts in what works. we know that housing is a social determinants of health. ucationalit's also a social dett of educational achievement, workforce growth, and neighborhood community and state and national well-being. the resources invested to respond to the pandemic taught us what was possible, and it is my hope that we will continue to respond with that same level of urgency. i have never stopped believing that in minnesota, in this country, we can't achieve the vision that all people have a safe place to call home. that children and youth do not have to sleep in cars one night and go to school the next day, and we can live in a state and country without homelessness. this is a problem we know how to solve, and it is not a question of can we, but will we. thank you. >> thank you, miss ten broeke. and i welcome virtually to the committee, jamie kirk. >> thank you so much to the committee providing me to be here today. i am a current an active board member for journey on, and i am also a -- employee of the rapid city police department. journey on was incorporated as a non profit in 2018 by tracy -- a member of the mohawk tribe. in early 2020, we are focused on use mentorship and substance abuse recovery. it was also in 2020 that the rapid city police department was awarded a community based reduction grant -- determining what to focus the rent on, it's essential to address houselessness, given that with roughly generating 55% of costs. additionally, it was clear that the native american suffered from housing assistance disproportionately, making up over 80% of those who are literally. houselessness i volumes resulted in low morale among officers, as they were not equipped with the tools to address the causes of helplessness, or the resources to provide sustainable solutions. realizing the need for greater collaboration and coordination with native led social organizations, that rapid city police department approached journey on to see if they would consider building capacity for a community initiative response to rapid city's growing houses community. with partner neon, with police department, and university of south dakota, applied for a high esg funding grant. since this grants has funded 75% of journey on straits outreach efforts. in january of 2021, the city of -- reached a contract with journey, on funding three full-time positions are providing to city -- to provide outreach. and in december of 2021, journey on has responded to nearly 5000 calls to 9-1-1 dispatch. journey on operates as part of a -- her response team that includes the police departments quality of life unit, the fire department's medical team, -- tribal levers health board, and health and human services and volunteers of america. since early december, we estimate that journey on how safe the city of rapid city nearly $873,000. journey on, has 13 employees and all but one is native american. all have lived experience with houselessness, the criminal justice system, and or addiction. each of journey on steve members are incredible messengers and use a cultured forward approach the surface. most of journey on the board members are native american as well. our native american -- they believe in the stigmas that come with the concept of homelessness, and prefer the term houselessness or houseless relatives. the march of 2020, to a collection of partners including members of journey on, cbd, and the city of rapid city develop the we connect business tool kit. the booklet focuses on educating businesses about the house of population, native american culture, mental health challenges, appropriate responses to our house was community, and many other topics. this was a critical piece connecting turning on to the greater community and -- forced responding to our hostile community members. the challenges, there are key organizational challenges our federal funding. federal funding does not allow for staff to receive paid time off and provides no avenue for health care or retirement benefits. the 10% is too low to accommodate the needs of staffing to run a team effectively, or to meet the eventuated birding required by data tracking requirements. the reimbursement of federal grants makes it difficult for small, and already led organizations, and -- to secure federal grant to maintain. them developing capacity for community based organizations like journey on is difficult. when turning on agree to develop an outreach program for rapid city, they had one employee, not functioning board members, and no sustainable revenue streams. over the past two, years a collective group of port members invested in incredible amount of time to develop a capacity for turning on. turning on is one of three local native led organizations now working with the white house on my community violence intervention collaborative, or civic. through civic, journey on is receiving technical assistance as many grants -- capacity. the white house civic initiative means much more funding over a longer period of time to support the types of local innovation that is creating a supporting. housing and challenges, in rapid city we have very few options for emergency shelter. according to a 2022 report, they reported 35% of the total of unhoused civilians of vigils in the state, which is more than 50% with the largest city in south korea recorded nearly two times the population. second of, all we understand the housing first model. some folks are not ready to go straight to permanent housing, and require transitional housing options. folks who are not used to living in a home on their own need to re-learn how to care for their home, and they need to create new social networks, and they need to learn the routines and methods to comply with rules in the space to do that. rapid city is 3000 affordable housing units short of what it needs. the waitlist for south dakota housing and development is 180 people long, and pennington carrying housing as a weightless of 3200 people for years. rapid city is nearly impossible to incentivize developers to get involved in affordable housing projects. market rate apartments are doing it at a premium and developing in black hills is costly. there are few federal and says if that developers can take advantage of to develop an inventory to address the need. lastly, the count is not allowing communities to capture those who are housing insecure, and it does not allow us to capture houselessness in a way that our native american community members experience at. many of those living in areas don't have access to any form of emergency shelter. they are living sometimes 20 people to a one bedroom home, because they have to. some of these homes are not fit for human habitation, having that room -- to keep it safe from the elements, and no running water or electricity or trash collection. with that, i would like to thank the committee members of the senate who invited journey on to speak today, and to take the time to learn about how are our innovative word model workers of instead and the challenges we face in making it sustainable. >> thank you so much to all of you. we will now begin our round of questions from senators. each senator will have approximately five minutes, and i would like to have senator reid go first. >> i thank the chairwoman for her gracious this, and thank you all for excellent testimony, and i could tell you the same story. providence, rhode island, the average rent have jumped 23.8% in the previous year. that is extraordinary. we are running out of our emergency rental assistance funds. the emergency shelters are closing down. our frontline staff, as you all know, is really bringing out after the pandemic. and that y is essential, i think, that we increased funding for the homelessness assistance grants. that would include a continual care program, which is over 207,000 people. also -- grants, serving another proximity 30 50,000. miss olivia, are there, are the resources like homelessness assistance trans essential to combatting homelessness, particularly as the pandemic specific programs begin to wind down? thank you so much, senator reed, for that question. as you might remember, i actually ran those programs at hud for about ten years, so they are near and dear to my heart. you know, those programs, those that are funded through the homeless assistance grants, count, and i would count hud bash in that sort of general group of homelessness specific programs. really, they form the backbone of our homelessness response in our country. and in a lot of communities, not all communities, but in a lot of communities, most of them are funding that is available for homeless assistance programs. so, increasing resources in the continuum of care program and through the esg program and the hud bash are sort of the backbone and the lifeline of many communities and their response to homelessness. it also creates a way for hud to be able to put forth promising practices and evidence based approaches and prioritized funding for those types of resources. since we are talking about the continuum of care program, i would note three things. first, thank you so much for the legislation that allows tribes to receive and be eligible for the continuum of care program. it's incredibly important. there are some issues related to implementation that we are all working out right now, but it was incredibly important. two, in hud's last budget request, they asked for two tools that i think are going to be really important, in addition to an increase in funding for those programs. one is increasing the cap on planning for continuance of care. that is really important, because continuum of care are really the subject matter experts. as funding is coming into communities that goes through other types of sort of mechanisms, it is important for ceos seized to have planning dollars to work with them. they also mentioned having a two-year no fussy call, and we would support that. the national alliance supports that. in part, for some of the reasons that ranking member rounds mentioned, local need some time to do implementation and to had them to your funding cycle will be really helpful there. the last thing that i would note that was raised by one of our colleagues up here in the panel is around staffing, and increasing the crc program, which requires increases in fair market rents and leasing amounts that are commensurate with what's happening in the community. i would say we need to do the same for staffing, so providers are properly resourced and can provide their cost of living increases when they can. >> thank you very much for that. let's just shift quickly, because you mentioned hud to your colleague. one of the things i have observed is first of all, hud that programs are extremely full. but there are many areas or the factors are going underutilized. is that an issue you have identified, and can you give us some insight as to why they are being underutilized? >> i think the bare number of issues to unpack there, from a lack of staffing at va for case managers, to a rental market that may not be as willing to accept vouchers, i think we hear from communities across the country that it is just getting harder and harder to move veterans with vouchers into permanent housing. i think even for some of the veterans who already have vouchers to retain the house and we have, because the housing market is just so hot, and landlords can move on to other, higher paying clientele. so, i do think that we need to get creative around how we can identifies landlords and ph ace to get vouchers out the door, but, also how we support va to better case manage folks who are utilizing factors and how we can get them some flexibility there. >> thank you very much. thank you, it's inspired. but i want to thank all the panelists for. you that is very thoughtful, for your thoughtful testimony today, but for your incredible efforts as well. thank you very much. >> thank you, senator reed. i want to start with here. i think each of you in one way or another talked about the great benefits, during the course of the pandemic, the impact of the resources we were able to provide for rental assistance and the child tax credit and other strategies to lift peoples income and make housing more affordable. several of you also talked about how this was an opportunity for sometime around innovation, and really trying new things, and trying to find some examples of really, real success on the ground. you know, miss ten broeke, i've been turn to you first. i've been hard to see some real successes in minnesota, where in henderson county, we've seen the lowest number of people experiencing homelessness, i think, in the last 17 years. could you share with us, briefly, what we have seen in minnesota and the impact on the ground of covid relief funding, and what lessons, what are the key lessons or takeaways in terms of what we have learned to do, good lessons we have learned during the course of this terrible time? >> thank you very much, senator smith. i am happy to respond to. that you know, we were able to, with the covid federal resources just, to be so much more flexible and to get those dollars out to the community quickly, to respond to the crisis at hand. because of, that because we are returning to communities and saying what is going to work, and what do you need to make this work? they were coming up with innovations we had not seen before. you know, when the pandemic hit and as many of you know, many, many people saw refuge in encampments. that one, point in minneapolis, we had an encampment on the south side of minneapolis with over 200 tents, people really struggling, and we were able to use federal resources quickly to stand up some new programming, one being a specific shelter they could bring people inside that was for that kind of shelter, that could meet their needs. they may have remained outside an unsafe, if not for that. one of our housing providers who is helping us get the hotel to comb model, which is another very, very innovative project. of course, if we've never done it before. it helps the hospitality industry, but also standing up models that would work with people, bring them into hotels, and protect them from the pandemic. they very, very intensely work with them to get out of those hotels into permanent housing so they didn't return to the streets. during, that the big, large encampment, that same provider with the i can't, they literally talk with almost every single person staying in the encampment to find out from them what would work to bring them in and make them feel safe. they developed a program called uvo village. it's literally an indoor village of structures were people have their own privacy, their own space, they could come in, they could be safe, and once, again like a hotel program, they could work individually to help get people out and into permanent, stable housing. that is the goal of all of the programs that we are working on. so, i can't say enough about how important the flexibility and the way they were delivered with urgency, especially with difference, and it wasn't just in the metro area. even though that was the area where things were most visible, in terms of the challenging, in rochester, we work in organizations like the city library system, that partner to operate -- space and overnight shelter. and moving people in ramsey, out of hotels and into supportive programs. the american indian community development corporation was just an amazing partner, the whole time, they were trying to increase the amount of really specific native focused work, which is really who is most dramatically impacted by unsheltered homelessness during the pandemic. i am very grateful to minnesota for the resources were able to use, along with rental assistance that kept people in their housing. hennepin county really did see fewer people experience this during the county before, because of rental assistance. that proves to us that that is the kind of intervention, sometimes, for every small amounts of resource, we can keep people and housing and prevent long term costs, and obviously, the trauma of homelessness on children. >> thank you so. much i am going to return to the other members of the panel to ask a follow-up to that question, but i know that senator, i believe that senator tester from montana's online, and i would like to give senator tester a chance to ask questions. >> thank you, madam chair. it's good to be here, and unfortunately, this is an issue that's it's fundamental to communities in life and families and all of that stuff. it's good to see you again. as you know, one of the most successful initiatives in efforts to end veterans homelessness -- this program continues to suffer from va's ability to hire case managers, so i would love to know what your thoughts are, in an effort to resolve this issue. both internally and through contact. >> so, i'm sorry. i think i will start by saying that contracting is a really great opportunity to address some of the shortages, but i do think there is a lot more that va could do. what we saw during the pandemic was that va was getting creative about using some of the rescue plan and cares funding to actually pay for hiring incentives and moving costs, to recruit hud bash case managers to communities where they might have otherwise had a hard time doing that. now, they are not able to do that once the current emergency help that summation ends. i think that is one thing. i do think we have also seen communities where va have gotten really creative around what constitutes hud bash case management, means there are taking a multi disciplinary approach and utilizing the support of peers to kind of help stretch the ability of a licensed clinical social worker, for example, to be able to successfully case management veterans on their caseload. i think there is a lot more that we can dive into, if congress is willing to support them in doing that. >> okay. so, this goes, i think also cathy ten broeke would like to visit about this. in opening statements, but housing it's not only not available for low income folks, it's not available for folks. i would say in montana, it's not available in montana. i will bet you, chairwoman smith, you could say it's not available in minnesota. i will bet you, senator cortez masto, is not available in the data. it's not available anywhere. affordable housing, it is an incredible boat anchor. it's one of the reasons we should have done something, but we are doing nothing. in my opinion, it's a problem that won't solve itself. it will probably take 30 to 40 years to do. it what do you to think we could do to help speed up availability, and i will leave low income out of it. just affordable housing for folks to be able to fill jobs and, important jobs, to, whether it's a teacher or a mechanic or a brick layer or whatever it might be, it's receiving the federal government can do, or is this just -- communities continue to struggle to find places for entrepreneurs and for folks in the working class to live? you can go first. >> i think what we've seen during the pandemic is some communities have gotten really creative around taking existing space and converting it into housing, and i think we have seen this predominantly for affordable housing, but i think it is a model that could work for workforce housing as well. potentially it, might be easier to execute because you wouldn't be worrying about rental subsidies and such. >> what are the uses for money to do this rehab? >> i want to pitch this two and oh leave on the panel, who might be better equipped to ask. >> i just want answers. >> it was pinned to me. the work works model is all about work, and getting people back to work, but also creating opportunities for people who have jobs to be able to sustain their housing. >> here's the problem. we've got people, we don't have any people. we've got jobs out the gaza. we've got job offers at the. gazillion what and, have no experience, and you can get a good paying job. but they can't hire, because there's no place to live. how do you fix that problem? >> what i was going to say is that part of the model where we can create cost-effective affordable housing is through converting commercial spaces. the problem is there is no funding to do that from the federal level, because it's not traditional units and all the regulations. but you can have very high quality residences like the former sros reimagined. those can accommodate work force populations that we know we need to invest in higher wages and training so that you can move up the career ladder, but for that first run workforce, as practical and cost-effective to convert commercial spaces, hotels, and other types of housing stock quicker and faster. the problem is the funding stream. as we've talked about innovative solutions, we should not only expand on the existing funding streams, but we need to think more about other models that can be funded so it is possible for developers on the ground too quickly act and create housing. >> the chair for minnesota, maybe the chairwoman would let you respond to that. i'm out of time. >> thank you for the opportunity, senator. >> go ahead. >> thank you, chairwoman smith. i think it's an all in strategy, senator. i think there is frankly no wrong affordable housing investments. i think in minnesota, it's true everywhere. our largest source of housing resources to create housing is the federal low income tax credit. i think increasing the opportunities to invest in that is hugely important, but many, many various ways we create housing are all needed. to your point, senator, i couldn't agree more. we need housing supply at all crisis points. that's not just low income, is also true that we need to make sure our tools in our tool box will work to create lower income housing as well. we are 100,000 units short of housing that people at very lowest incomes in minnesota can afford. that is more dramatic than the rest of the population. but i agree with you. we needed nowels. >> thank you very much. i appreciate the hospitality. miss madam chairwoman, great talking to you guys. thank. you >> thank you, senator tester. i believe we have senator cortez masto, who is ready on, from her office? >> i am. madam chair, can you hear me okay? >> yes, we can. >> thank you. so, thank you to all of the panelists. i am going to follow up on what my colleague from montana said. absolutely, it's. right this is to address the affordable housing needs in our communities, to make sure that those that are homeless, those in our workforce, we are providing a roof over their head. nova role to play, and you got touched on it. i have been talking to coalitions in my state about this. at the end of the day, it has to pencil out the builders. you have to call them together, financing, figure out how we build more of a supply so that we can make it affordable housing. one of the things, and for the panelists, and invite -- please let me know, but i think one of the things we can focus on to do that here in congress is just too, and this, is i believe, senator cantwell's bill. and because by patterson support for, it is the expanding low conch -- tax credit. it's the number one thing i hear from the -- community, there are provisions in there that will allow us to cancel out for those builders the opportunity to add additional units. does anybody disagree with that? >> no. definitely not. but i would add the home program in the national housing trust funds to a list of programs that could be expanded to increase affordable housing supply. >> absolutely. that is on my list as well. that actually is something that we could work through appropriations to get done. and, so, thank you. if there's anything else on your list, please let me. no i think it is important for us to hear that here in washington, in congress, that there are some very simple things for us to do that if we just focus on, we can address this issue. i, in my state, i will tell you that my concern in the number one cause of getting office workforce housing, but i am hearing not from veterans, and seniors in my state, who are facing sharp increases in their monthly rent and or worry that they will be out on the streets because there is not enough affordable housing options. so, let me ask miss monet, with respect to veterans, is there, can you talk a little bit about this? are there a certain type of housing? needed what should we be looking at, particularly, when we look for addressing homelessness effect rinse, which has increased in my state, unfortunately, and we have to be focused on? it? >> i think and all in approach is what we need. we hear someone from veterans that certain approaches like permanent supportive housing are great, and for other groups, they are. not some folks want to be in project based sites. others don't. when you are thinking about the at risk population, so folks who are living somewhere and the rent is increasing dramatically, really, what is going to help is not the fairly new housing, but the cash transfers. when you think about va subsidy program via the uss program, that is a great approach to help people who are kind of on the brink retain their housing, and in state house. more of that, and potentially even the ability for hud to do something similar, would be helpful. >> thank you. thank. you let me touch on something else, which is interesting. and looking at the statistics from hud. what is interesting to be is in the past few years, nevada and some other states, have seen a decrease and a percentage of youth experiencing homelessness. federal continuing of care grants, support critical services, including homelessness prevention and wraparound services, is there a lesson to be learned there? there is a decrease in youth homelessness, but that we are seeing it in other areas. i guess my question for the panel may be, i will start with miss oliva, what are we learning from that? have we done something? have we done something that really opens the door for opening the doors for opportunities? for youth? i am curious if you have any ideas of what has happened. >> that is a great question. the first thing i want to do is go back to make one point from your earlier question. there are three things we need to do on affordable housing. we need to preserve the affordable housing that we have. we need to increase supply through the programs we talked about. we need to increase affordability to pencil those projects out, as you mentioned, by expanding the housing choice factual program. those three things together will make a huge difference. on the question about youth, yeah. congress appropriated funds for the youth homelessness demonstration program. that's the program has provided a lot of funding, flexible, pretty flexible funding, and system level funding, to help communities build resources that really meets the needs of young people who are experiencing homelessness, especially young people of color and lgbtq young people. the difference about that program, and actually change the way that i think about my work, is that young people are involved in every aspect of that program. they are involved in the design. they are involved locally, with decision-making. they actually have help to score applications at the national level, and that really points to what we can do more broadly, which is make sure we are partnering with people who have lived experience of homelessness and the systems we are trying to change, so we are leaning on their expertise and learning from them and partnering with them. i think there is a number of things to learn from the youth homeless system integration program that could be applied across the board. thank, you thank you madam chair. >> thank you very much. senator cortez masto, thank you. we are now joined by senator van hollen from his office. >> thank, you madam. chairman thank you for holding this for the focus that you've had on these really important issues of affordable housing, which become more urgent and severe with every passing day, and i think we all recognize there are two big pieces to this equation. one, of course, is supply. the other is making sure that we continue to make available, as was just indicated in testimony, housing choice vouchers. thank you, madam chair, for also mentioning the legislation that senator young and i had proposed bipartisan legislation, that would allow more families to move to areas of opportunity with more flexible wraparound services. and i think we all saw that during the pandemic, the congress, together with president biden, provided important emergency services and things that would have been a lot worse. but for those important emergency supports, now, we of course, got the long term challenges that we continue to face. miss oliva, if you could talk about the challenge we are facing right now, with respect to the purchasing power of the housing choice voucher program, as you see, rising rental rates, and you see eight demands for rental housing that is increasing, more and more landlords want to least to the person who can quickly make a security deposit or someone who can defray other costs that aren't currently covered by the housing choice vouchers. so, should we be asking hud to use some of its existing authorities to make the use of those vouchers more flexible? in maryland, for example, we are seeing about 80% of the vouchers for 2022 are not able to be used. people are not able to match those vouchers up with landlords because of the intense competition and the fact that they can't use the voucher purchasing power for some of those expenses. can you speak briefly to that? >> sure. i think there is actually quite a bit to learn from the emergency housing voucher program implementation. as i mentioned in my testimony, we are up to about 90% either least up or issued to families and individuals who are experiencing homelessness. and in some communities like king county in washington state, the utilization rate is quite high, even in really tight markets. the reason we are seeing that is because of the flexibilities that congress provided too hard for the implementation of that program, including alternative requirements and waivers that make it easier to get people into the program, but most importantly, providing funding to allow for landlord incentives, housing navigation, the kinds of things that programs can use, the ph aids can use to partner with landlords and create ways, the flexible, and be creative in how they partner at the local level. so, i think that catherine would agree that we should implement those kinds of flexibilities and those kinds of flexible funding for programs like hud fashion and other parts of the housing choice about your programs, generally, so other programs that are not the -- program can use them, and hopefully bring up utilization. >> mid ten broeke, would you agree with that assessment, with respect to using the authorities to be flexible? >> yes. i do, actually. thank you. >> thank you. >> let me ask a question to miss oliva about the housing first approach, because i think there is sometimes confusion, where some people suggest that housing first excludes a number of the wraparound services when, in fact, at least in my understanding, that is an important part of the model. but we want to make sure that people do have a safe place to live and call home as they access those wraparound services. can you talk a bit about the benefits of the housing first approach? >> yes, of course. thank you for that question. i agree with you that there is a lot of misinformation out there, and i am happy to try to dispel some of that misinformation as part of this hearing today. housing first is really an approach rather than a program. it's an approach that is grounded in treating people with dignity and providing choice to people who are in vulnerable situations and experiencing homelessness. it means that accessing permanent housing is prioritized, so people who are experiencing homelessness have a safe and stable foundation to supports achieving other goals a recently heard somebody describe it something like this. you don't give a drowning person a swimming lesson. you bring them to safety on shore, and then decide whether they actually need a swimming lesson or other something else was happening. and let me be really clear on this point. housing first is never housing only when it is implementing according to the model. services are offered even before a person moves into their permanent housing, and they are tailored to the needs of the person or family. the evidence base is extremely strong. we have hypertension rates. and then, the last thing i will say is data also shows cost saving for housing first approach and a lot of cases, because as people have more consistent supports, and they don't have to access emergency services, because of the community goes down. there's a lot of evidence behind housing first. it is really rooted in dignity and choice, and it is not housing only. >> well, thank you, ann, think you for dispelling some of the myths i think are there. i have a lot more questions, but i see time is up. madam chair, thank you so much for bringing this together around support and so check. >> thank you very much, senator van hollen. i am going to ask a few more questions while i have the opportunity with all of you, and i want to actually go back to, i'd like to go to miss kirsch, who is with us remotely. i appreciated the comments that you made around the unique challenges in native communities and on tribal lands. so, miss coc diane, this question is for. yeah -- can you describe for us what you have seen in your work around good approaches to addressing the challenges in overcrowding in native and tribal communities, and how can we best be sensitive to this issue from a policymaking perspective as we look at the programs and policies who want to advance? >> sure, thank you so much for the question, senator. i guess i would say first and foremost, what we see in rapid city is what is having the greatest impact is doing the act reach, putting culture first. it allows folks to access resources and individuals who our native american and provide native american resources to them. it helps of access the report from there that is either housing or tension recovery or mental health support and medical services, being able to connect folks to those spaces that are offering sage burning or smudging, offering folks connection to a need base. these can all be healing factors and make a person far more successful in their housing search and they're securing of services throughout the spectrum. it's challenging, right, because in rapid city, we are flanked by some of the most impoverished counties in our nation, and there is a vast, i think, issue with under development, under investment in our tribal areas. in a lot of cases, it is hard to do affordable housing development, because there is no infrastructure. there is no water infrastructure, electrical infrastructure, so there's a lot more costs associated and affiliated with trying to do affordable housing development in those areas. in rapid city, because we are such an urban center, and because folks come from hundreds of miles just to seek support here in rapid city, i think the key is really creating models through which folks can get supported in the way they want to be supported and feel comfortable in those spaces, whether it is, i totally support the housing first model. because we have absolutely no permanent housing available or affordable housing available for individuals, folks are feeling most comfortable in congregate shelters that put culture first and they are more successful with their goals once they are able to access that culture and community. so, i hope i answered your question. >> no, that's very helpful. that is very. helpful as i listen to your response, i am struck by what we know, which is one of the -- the connection, the challenge people feel around just the isolation as they are experiencing housing insecurity or houselessness, and to me, that makes it particularly clear that taking a culture first approach or having a culture first approach, for the culture of the center of the, work makes the most difference, because that is the way of overcoming that sense of isolation that people feel. would you agree with that? >> oh, 100 percent i would agree with that, yes. >> i want to touch, also, on the question of the connection between housing and health. and miss oliva, i will direct this question to you. can you just discuss disconnection between housing and health, and specifically, how permanent supportive housing or what we can do to understand it, but we cannot really address peoples health issues if we are not, if they don't have a safe place to live? >> well, i think you actually summarized it perfectly. it is the biggest lesson, or one of the biggest lessons, we've learned during the pandemic. you can't shelter in place if you don't have a home. housing is absolutely court to being able to be healthy, from a behavioral health standpoint in the physical health standpoint. i think the biggest lesson, as i mentioned, is really about this connection between the ability to be healthy and having a safe and stable place to live. safe unstable places to live also sort of help advance the positive impacts of other types of investments that the government is making in health care, in education, and employment. all of those things are better when somebody, as we've seen from the housing first model and permanent supportive housing, really, housing provides the foundation by which all of those other aspects of life can be improved, and people can thrive in their communities. so, it's not just about health care. it's about all of those other pieces and what housing brings to the table to improve them. >> i really appreciate that. i am proud that minnesota has been an innovator in this area. i really understand the social determinants of health, and the minnesota medicaid program covers housing support services to help minnesota's find and maintain affordable housing, and making that connection directly. this is a weakness of a lot of federal strategies, because we are very siloed, and we don't connect the dots as best as we could. then, that means providers like people out there trying to make things work are struggling all the time, because those dots don't connect this wall as they should. i think that, it's one example, of what we're doing in minnesota with the >> would anyone else wish to comment on that connection? please, miss mcdevitt. >> thanks so much. i would build upon what i was saying as far as access to employment and income and employment it, was another metric around stability and health, and i think one thing that gets lost in these conversations is there is a group of people using the metaphor of drowning that don't even have access to a life ring. so, we need to create more life rings. however metaphor you want to use, and i think this is about expanding our ability to use a housing first approach beyond just the tools that we have to promote health stability and access to economic opportunity that is part of the social determinants of health not only for the people who don't meet the, incumbent for people who for the educations, and terence taken care of their family, returning from incarceration and they'd access to all they're not available or stable enough for. i would argue that that we look at it as a category of philosophy, but we need to look at it beyond units themselves and really start talking about how do we help people stabilize off the streets, outed institutions, with the support services they need to live the best life that they can. and there is a group of people, as i mentioned, about 40% of folks who are coming into our shelters every day that are not self resolving, and indeed, do not have those access. even if we had enough units in, even if we hadn't vouchers, they are not qualifying. so, that is why, i think, when we talk about model second bring in the public, and also other benefits to the community, the reasons why something like work works can really add value was community is the business community. it creates better conditions for quality of life for the whole community, which gets more people involved in wanting to solve this issue. i think that is an important point that we have to remember. we need a community wide approach, not just one that is focus just on governments or service providers. thank. you >> thank you. i want to wrap up in just a moment, i will see if miss monet warmest ten broke the connection between housing and health and to break down the barriers around these two issues. it's monday? >>. ,. . . , well listen men's chronic in the sense through -- but i do think that there are also psychological benefits to being housed and not being subject to all of the violence that people faced on the streets on a daily basis, and the fact that you have somewhere that you can call your own is a really big deal, i think, especially as we look to the ways in which many cities and communities across the country are starting to criminalize homelessness. and rely on -- it's really traumatic when you think about the fact that everything, own literally everything you've been able to retain will be gone in an instance. and repeatedly, i think it's hard for people to deal with that housing is a critical resource. i think we have to look at the fact that we have to put people in housing and wrap them with the services that they need. thank you very much. >> miss kershaw, you have anything final to add before they wrap up? >> thank you. keir smith, i think that sums up so well they experience on covid puts -- the importance of the question, and the one thing that we will be able to the pandemic hit homelessness were at greatest nist were really devastating results because of the pandemic, not only because of the settings where people were living where they couldn't be on distance, but obviously, people also have -- very serious health conditions, and i think that data that all we have for the pandemic, is people were sleeping outside, and they contract covid, they were 11 times more likely to end up in the hospital and other ministers that had covid. and eight times more likely to end up in the icu. so, both conditions and settings are so important that we need to start to connect the dots between our housing systems, our social service, systems our health systems, to be successful and serve people better. >> thank you very much. >> i reserve offer quickly that in terms of public health, i think trauma and the impact of traumatic experience of houselessness, especially in our youth, can have a lifelong effect on our young people, and we see it's time and time again here in rapid city, where we see youth who are infected by houselessness or coming in contact with law enforcement and really coming up with creative ways to respond to houses community members to minimize that trauma and to truly -- practice and sustainable solutions, creating opportunities to individuals to identify the resources they truly need to become housing successful, and that includes everything from culture, which i've talked a lot about, but all the way through, to helping folks stay housed once they are housed, housing prevention, or preventing houselessness, it's an incredibly important, and i would, say as important as addressing the actual houselessness occurring on our streets. if we can help minimize the amount of trauma youth are experiencing as a result of evictions, and instead, coming up with an innovative way to help families stay home, i think we are former successful in the end with our efforts than we were just responding at the crisis. thanks again for allowing me to be here. >> thank you so much, thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today and providing such great testimony. i am struck as i listen to the questions and also your answers, -- we understand the sensuality of housing, to work, to health, too physical and emotional health, and that we have also been able to see the innovation and the success that we have seen, because of the resources going into the covid challenge, those challenges are still there, and in fact, i think we are seeing the great impact of some of those resources going away right now. this hearing has given all of us lots of thoughts, for where we can go from here and what we have to do together. before we adjourn i want to read a letter from catholic charities of st. paul minneapolis. objections? i see none. four senators who wish to submit questions, they will be do one week from today, tuesday, july 26, you will have 45 days to respond. thank you again so much and this hearing is adjourned. 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