Sellers are perceived and will help us to adjust the metrics that we and the expectations for our clients. Letting them know that, you know, hope is in the length of time not only in the thank you so much have a greathi everyone. Welcome. My name is katie kotch, and im an agent at don congdon associates. And im just finishing up my second term on the board of and i cant think of a better way to be wrapping up that term service than here with you all today, the u. S. Book show. So thank you being here. I am very pleased to be conducting our audio called listen up making the most from audio books here with me today. I have lovely panelists that i am very pleased to introduce to my right is Scott Sherritt and is a producer and director of scotch productions. To my immediate left is lance fitzgerald. He is the Vice President of content and Business Development for Penguin Random house audio and. To his left is carol mackie, who is a senior Acquisitions Editor with recorded books. And finally, we have anthony goff, who is the president , blackstone publishing. So please welcome them. So thank all. I wanted to start out conversation focusing a little bit on audio original. So just to make sure everyone in the audience is on the same page, can you briefly explain how you think about audio original and what makes a good audio original . I wondering if we might actually start with scott. He is in production and im very curious about you might be thinking about it. Right . Well, to me all audio is original. Yes. In we get the script we have the print book sorry book but for me thats just a screenplay. And then the audio is the cinematic event. Its the im always aiming make it incredibly cool and vibrant and its own standalone Creative Work of art. So an audio original would carry the same thoughts and hopes and, production goals and it so anything that is exciting and feels robust and new that were answering a question or making something somehow exciting that pulls on your ear. Thats an audio original. Thank you, scott. Anyone else want to add on to that, particularly the ways that agents might using it as distinct from an audio that is read from the manuscript. Ill go, i think. Thanks. Thank you. I think it was an audio book original as something thats not based on an existing text and or may never appear in print. So its not something you will ever be able to read either in an ebook, in a printed book. But its something that you will listen to. So i would say were kind of publishing a few categories. We publisher of traditional book, which is based on the print book, we publish audio adaptations and that may be Something Like bonos surrender is full of music and sound effects and enhances audio book or a graphic novel, which turn into an audio book and then an audio original. Is that that true thing . Weve published a handful of them. We did two last year, which are books that are never print. Theres no plans to put them in print there, just always exist as an audio book. Anyone else want to build on that . I mean, the most simple is non book based, you know, product. So thats, you know, thats the basic definition. But to echo what what lance and scott had said, it is an campus, its a its a blank slate. Its something that you could create and bring in as many Different Things as youd like to. And book project gives you that opportune d or some more than others. But with originals, you know, it seems that everythings the table and so, so a lot of opportunity to really go after the format because its not a conversion text. Its created for audio. Thank you so much, anthony. I wanted to carole into this conversation, and im curious, carole, since youre four recorded books, what are you looking right now . What are categories that you think work really well for . Audio and what are categories are they different . When you think about audio originals. Thank you so much. Well, weve done a few audio originals that have been very successful, but we really havent picked up the pace too much on it. So but in terms of genres, sci fi of horror, suspense, romance, anything thats really, you know, exaggerated, im a big that sounds suspense fan, for example. So ill listen to anything suspense, anything thats exciting and we have Graphic Audio which i dont know if anybody know about Graphic Audio is one of our imprints. And they do the dramatize versions of books, you know, so for example, music and screens and you so its more like a movie listening to a movie. Thank you. Does anyone else want to talk . Like what categories are selling . Particularly well. Whats ripe right now in of what we should be pitching . What you want . See . I mean fiction, suspense. Like carol said, romance is a is major growing area. Sci fi has been making a lot of ground in is still at the top. So those are always the biggest its thriller suspense you mystery. So its been a few years that they theyve been kind of leading the charge. Thank. And you know as someone myself who focuses on is there a particular difficulty with. I know that you all kind of talking about fiction at the moment. Thats people gravitate towards. Does it need to be something where the author has a profile where the author is narrating . Not necessarily. I mean, i, i prefer nonfiction. Im a im a big nonfiction reader and listener. It does. It does many times an author might want to be involved that its not always the best thing. But if the author does have a platform or if the author tends to speak and ted talks and be on media and the media genic, its great. And so, you know i feel like back in the day with the rich dad poor dad Robert Kiyosaki right. It was the boom of audio because robert was doing these rich dad talks all over the country. But there were only a handful of them and. And thats really what spurred the audiobook industry on because he started selling recordings out of his trunk because not everybody could get there and not everybody could get a ticket. It was always limited. So, so know, it brings something really, when an author whose lifes work is their book brings it to the table. And i always tell them, you know, in terms of scott and production like that solidifies it. That creates a piece living history that will long outlive of us. So if youre wondering recording your own book and youre on the fence, think about that. Its for the after you that will have your your story. And its powerful. Thank you so much scott do want to talk from a production aspect about narration a little bit like what makes a good narrator like how do you about whats going to stand and what can we as agents do to kind of prep our authors who might be interested in that. Well, to what anthony said, my favorites are memoirs and there is something to the authenticity of the person reading that text. To me, its more powerful for that simple truth. Having that person read their story then having some incredible, even a famous actor it. Prince harry for who is going to do that . He should do it he did it. Its incredible. Its wonderful. And theres so much that you can feel and hear in every sentence for your authors agents. You know, you have, i think its important to gauge their interest if it is their story. Like anthony said, they really should read it unless. Something stops them from doing it. Like theyve been working on this book forever in the of a memoir. Its been their life story. Theyve been working on it. Their whole life. When we get in the studio its this condensed process. Theyre it all comes together three, five days, eight days, whatever it might be. And theres something i find thats cathartic for people. Theres that helps them it to bed or gain perspective. So for authors i think as agents communicate with them a little bit as to why they do or do not to read it, you know, if they or not. And then they should talk the audio people i think i always love talking to an author before get into the studio, even if its a little zoom call, then were not strangers. Because the closer person is to themselves when we get in the studio, the better thing is that we have theyre not. Because sometimes authors will seek advice and come in with all kinds of notions of acting and how its going to hard or, you know, someones told to eat two chocolates an hour, but never coffee. Theres just you never know whats happening. So if i can just talk to them, they usually just settle down and then in the studio were, not strangers. And then we can have a nice loose conversation. Them getting as close to who they are before they start. Magical things happen because theyve got a lot of support. I audiobooks, weve really know what were doing these days and. Theres incredible in place to support them editors how were marking it so an authors not in there there it will be great and it may take a little more for them to discover whats going to take there. But i love it. Great thank you. Also, if i may interject. Yes, please. I agree with everything thats got just said. Also, i and ive advised many agents on this in publishers when theyre when their author wants to to narrate. And we say audition just to kind of set expectations. I think thats really important because even though they may have a platform as anthony said, and they may, you know, speak all over the world, it doesnt mean that when they get in booth that they wont fumble, that they may get nervous. And our job is long overdue. Sers is to produce the best audiobook possible. Its not personal. And ive had to tell, you know, of the authors this, but the good side, you know, in our studios is the studio guys do work with them. So i say listen this a really important author they may not deliver the best work but if you could work with them and usually they do because whatever is going to sell the audiobook thats what we want. You know we want the best product, but we also have to manage their expectation actions. And i think thats where you agents in and do a little handholding and say, listen you may not get it, but know dont, please dont take it personally. And there have been rare occasions where that has happened with me. Thank carole, because i was just about to ask that follow up question like what do we need to do to prep them . You i was i was going off of anthony saying sometimes its not always the best. Its like, right, how do we deal with that . Thank you so much. So im curious, you know, in in i know when when im pitching audio, for example, if i have the the audio rights, a print book thats already production, i know the schedule when i kind of need to be pitching that and when what the production going to look like, like at least three months, you know, for a timeline. But when it comes to audio originals, im curious like is there a best way for us as agents to go about pitching audio originals like and does it need to be tied to anything in particular . I think i think for hello hello for an audiobook original. I think one of the advantages is that it can be very very quick to market. When i think about one of the first ones we did during the lockdown, Getting Started with our dog, everyone was in their kitchens, they were cooking, they making sour. Do you remember you saw it on . Social media, theyre like everyones making sour dough. Its hard to make cerrado and read a cookbook. So we had the founders of tartine bakery talk people through how to make sourdough bread, and we got that out extremely quickly. It was a timely moment and i think a year ago when the war in ukraine out Timothy Snyder, who wrote on tyranny came to us and said, im an expert on ukraine. I want to get a book out about the history of ukraine and the print team, bless them, were like, we cant this we cant get this out in time. What can you do . So in six weeks we turned that around, made an audio book, our brilliant producer, sarah jaffe, went into the studio. Tim, tim read off an outline and he gave 25 lessons about ukraine, which we published on tyranny. So being able to find something that is quick to market. Were publishing thing in a couple of weeks, a book called conversation fun letting go by a woman named najwa ibn, who is a social media. We signed that up in january she has all of these followers. She went to her followers and said, me what your problems are and what you need. And so that audio book is going to be her talking through these ideas that her listeners and fans have. So quick to market. Is the advantage. The flip side of that, you can also take a really long time with it. We have something coming out probably a year that we are casting now that weve not announced because its going to be high concept and. Theres a lot of voices and sound effects and we want to leave time for our publisher marketing team, our director of marketing and publicity is right over here and shell be glad i say this to give them time to see the marketplace because what dont have with a print book where you can send a galley to a reviewer and they can read it on their own time. If youre quick to market, nobodys going to have time to. Listen that audio books, you need to give them time to set it out so its not a clear answer, but it can be fast or it can be slow. We love non clear answers. Anyone else want to build on that at all . Well, i can spin off that a little bit. I directed that Getting Started with sour dough and this is just a fun aside, but i think that was laura wilson when your colleague when she was still in audio but those authors at a studio West Hollywood where the jerry mabrouk is quite a sour note genius and he makes his own sour and those were so excited to know each and such fun sour stuff was happening. Its just one of the most interesting little, you know, elements of synergy ive ever seen in a booking. But thats all we love a good anecdote. Thank you. So im something is come up when you like. I wouldnt have thought of a sour dough project example or having something quick to market about whats happening the ground in ukraine and im curious about you feel audio and podcasts either compete with each other work well together. Is there a synergy do you feel like more people are coming to audiobooks because . Theyve grown accustomed to listening to like, can you to me a little bit about about these kind of differences . Yeah, i have a good story about that podcast. You know, were bringing in a lot new listeners and its great and thats, thats really growth that im after. We know the book, our segment and the of those people who come to audio then thats been there for a long time but what we dont know are the non Ebook Readers people who arent heavy into literature the people who are not reading ten, 12, 18 books a year and and have to supplement that by audio. So what i love about podcast and and i and watched this in the progression of my my youngest daughter right it was all about youtube when they kids and theyre all watching videos and theyre making things etc. And then and then the videos off to the side and theyre cleaning their rooms or theyre making bracelets or theyre doing whatever but theyre listening right. So, so was the first time because when i started audio, it was, you know 55 and older. I flew in hundreds dollar income. You know, it was like it was it was a thing where. It was great that we were catering to a certain market. But you really ultimately want to grow that market. And i think youtube, these are the things that are really rapidly expanding. Yet so there are advent advantages there. We were doing some audio next year in the months ahead based podcast using podcasts bringing together, etc. So but but it is wide and these people might not be heavy book readers and these are you know thats thats thats a major area and target for is to bring more of them into the literature space through audio do you think for that untapped market. It makes sense to do a model of like serialized asian for audiobooks like is that something experimented with at all. Yeah yeah thats. Its a thing where were, you know, theres, theres been discussions and are doing that. We are experimenting with that into chapter izing right its nuggets i was you know on the train on the in this morning and im looking im and im as im like looking these people coming into manhattan im thinking like hmm you know like what we want to do is get more longform into but with audio you dont doesnt need to be long form. It can be short like i was. I was looking at people like, i wonder if they would be into 20 minutes or 45 minute chapter instead and then put it down and, come back to it, which, you know sometimes is easier for nonfiction than it is for fiction. But yes, you know, little nuggets. We know the american Attention Span is dwindling and theres more there is more out there than ever that were competing for. So so i think serializing be good but the the the hurdle were up against is a lot of people are used to free right. Like theyre not paying so so anyway that thats the hurdle right i did i did some back in the day and i and, i took books that were, you know viewed online millions of times millions million, 1 million plus i took original original product that was was online a partner of mine and we we recorded them for audio and they didnt sell well you know and even at 499 599 so so theres that threshold theres that barrier what are people willing to pay for. Right. And how we amortize it is going to be really important. I think thats a good lead to my next question, which is shifting gears a little bit and talking about revenue and models. So some perhaps myself included are wary about streaming models. Weve seen how theyve affected the Music Industry and artists. So how does streaming fit into of your Business Models for both originals and traditional like and is there a point in the audiobooks life where streaming might be best utilized . Anyone who wants to talk to that first . Yeah, i could go. Carol okay, i think its just another avenue of income. Of course, streaming is different and like the spotify, you know we can convert those those listeners hopefully to audiobooks but is a different you know its a whole different format because you listen to a song 50 times but you know will you read a book, Keep Streaming a book 50 times. No. So i understand your concerns, but just think the more avenues that we have to to display on our audio books to better you know, i thats why i think you go ahead this is easy for me to answer Penguin Random house has a no unlimited access policy for audiobooks or ebooks, and that is original is that is all of our content. We it comes from our belief that a consumer goes into a bookstore and buys a book. They dont pay for just the t