He asked, where is the beef . A slogan from a popular wendys tv commercial. The Vice President finish the primary season with the lead in the delegates but he did not secure the nomination over senator hart until he Democratic Convention in july. He then lost the election to Ronald Reagan. With the president winning 49 out of 50 states. This session is courtesy of the league of women voters. Good afternoon. Im the president of the league of women voters. Welcome to the leagues second president ial debate of as we 1984. Have done in previous president ial election years, the league of women voters is sponsoring a series of general election debates. So that you can make sidebyside comparisons of the candidates and their views. John chancellor is our moderator for todays debate. Thank you. The gentleman in the league, when they sponsored there were eight of you, and now there are only five. , four of view and you have not done as well as you would like. Let me describe your positions. Jesse jackson, if he doesnt get any percent of the vote, he will lose his eligibility for federal campaign matching funds. Mr. Mcgovern is down to one state. He may withdraw. Mr. Glenn has not scored a victory and the polls dont put him in a strong position. Mr. Mondales hopes for a quick and decisive lead have not been fulfilled. I believe i heard him use the word clobbered to describe his defeat. [laughter] mr. Mondales hopes have not been fulfilled. He is a man with ideas for the future but his opponents say it is tinsel. Lame with no substance. Now, onto the substance. Mr. Jackson, you have a lot of experience in civil rights. Now that your campaigning in the south, you have been hitting the civil rights theme very hard, saying that youre better than your opponents on that issue. Does that tend to narrow your candidacy . There are a lot of white voters who did not rally. Have you reached the point where your support will come exclusively from blacks . In new hampshire, i got better than four of my opponents. In vermont, we got 8 of the votes. So we have an inclination of voting support in new hampshire. Mr. Hart and mondale can appreciate the fact that they will be driven out of business. All of them. Secondly, curb the military budget and use military sources to help end the deficit and revitalize the america. New presencet a but not a new reality. That affects everybody. The Voting Rights act is the most pivotal act of the century. There is a plan to enforce the Voting Rights act to win the primary. So the questions of social justice and peace and sharing power with women are critical to my agenda. Thank you. Mr. Mcgovern, you have been critical of gary hart recently. He was your Campaign Manager when he ran for president. When you ran for president in 1972. [laughter] it is his talk about the future, about the opportunities for a new generation, much different than what you are saying in 1972 . Mr. Mcgovern first of all, i think i trained gary too well. I have really been thinking over that whole business of 1972. Let me say, as one who is great special affection for gary hart and who will certainly support him if he is the democratic nominee, that i do think some legitimate questions have to be asked when the issue is posed. As gary has. He says the election as a contest between the past and the future. Now, i am not sure what the past means in those terms. I am very sensitive about this as gary knows because i am an , old history teacher. I have always revered the past. But does the past include George Washington and Thomas Jefferson . Does it include kennedy and the human rights policy of president carter . If it does, im glad to come here and defend the past and declare it as a good guide to the view chair. Thank you. Mr. Glenn, we saw you in iowa. You described yourself as a businessman and an experienced senator. But last week, you seem to be describing yourself as a hero astronaut and a tough marine. You have been all of these things, admittedly it is in your record, but can you really decide what sorts of person you have been . I dont think i have changed my views. What you are talking about is the experience factor, which i have pointed out. I have been 10 years in washington and have passed major legislation. I know how washington operates. But in addition to that, who was going to provide the jobs for the future of this country . Who knows the best from the white house, i have started for Small Businesses of my own. International corporations. One third of our Agricultural Production gets sent overseas. American jobs depend upon that. It is so important for the future. We talk about the future and i have been working in the future all my life. I was in the military, healthy helping to design the equivalent for the future. I think those are very valuable additions, in addition to just being lifelong political entities. And so i think i have that extra dimension that would give a good dimension for the white house in making those decisions you have to make. Thank you. Mr. Mondale, your new theme is, what you see is what you get. No hairspray. [laughter] you are saying, i am what i am. You say you have resisted suggestions to change your image. That approach may seem a bit short on actual issues and you to accuse your opponents of running issue list campaigns. Campaigns. Ss mr. Mondale that is the point of the comment. Substance is all that matters. Are we right on the arms control issues . Do we see that as a central issue of our time . Do we have a strong plan to get the deficits down . And restore americas competitiveness . To educate this next generation. Do we have the guts and the commitment to restore a sense of fairness . That is what i am trying to say. We do not elect momentum. We dont elect images. We elect a human being. And we better pick someone who knows what hes doing. Who is committed to the strongest elements and one who sees the experience and knows what he is doing. Thank you. Finally, mr. Gary hart. One thing i hear people say is that i dont know much about gary hart. I like his style, i like his looks. Isnt there some truth that your campaign is more impressionistic than theirs . You are spending more time just being gary hart than outlining things in your election . Mr. Hart that is a very good question at this stage in the race. Let me point out 2 facts. I have been a United States senator for two years. When George Mcgovern said, he doesnt know what the new ideas are, i have to remind him that last fall, i send them a copy of i sent him a copy of a book that i wrote and a stack of position papers about that high. I think i have the campaigns of all these other people. The other thing is, these primaries are happening fast. I oppose the weight of this calendar was set up. On the record, in the fall of 1982, i told the Hunt Committee not to do this. Toish i had three Weeks Campaign in florida, three weeks to campaign of georgia, and three weeks to campaign and alabama. Because i am convinced, the ideas that i have to move forward would sell down here exactly the way they have in the rest of the country. So i would hope in the future, when we nominate the president , and we give each candidate time to become better known and each of these states. Thank you. I would like to go on to specific questionings. Gentlemen, the figures on the American Economy show that the country right now is having one of the best recoveries from the recession of the 1950s. The country is in better shape right now than it was four years ago economically. Four years ago when the democrats were in the white house. I base that on the misery index. The publics expectation on inflation and unemployment. Four years ago, the misery index stood at 20. Today, the misery index is down to 13. So im going to ask each of you in random order, why should somebody vote for the democrats . Things are getting better. I would like to start with mr. Mondale. The misery index was first used in 1976. Mr. Mondale as a matter of fact, i think it is now clear that we have a misery index that we havent seen in a long time. We see the Interest Rates rising dramatically. We see the stock market going down dramatically. Now we see a resurgence of inflation. We are now predicting maybe 8 by the end of the year. We have a good chance, if this continues, to choke off Economic Growth. More than that, the effect of these policies has been to give is the worst trade year in the industry. A trade imbalance. 3 million4 million jobs lost as a result of that. These enormous deficits, as far as the eye can see, it guarantees that longterm sustainable healthy Economic Growth is possible and we are loading our kids with a trillion dollar bill that they have to pay with interest. It is the worst deliberate Major Economic mistake of modern times. I will go to mr. Gary hart. Mr. Hart two points. As he has accurately stated, this generation and this government is doing something that we have not done for 200 years in this nations history. That is to steal from our childrens future to satisfy a reagan recovery into the greed of a handful of people in this country. Number two, the misery indicator doesnt measure the anguish of our children who are desperately afraid of the nuclear holocaust, of the woman in alabama who wrote to me saying that she fully supported my efforts to get our marines out of lebanon, and her son was one who did not who did not come back. The anguish of our citizens who are afraid of toxic waste polluting their water supply. People who dont have a job beyond that and the 9 million structurally Unemployed People who are unemployed fed Ronald Reagan has no plan whatsoever to put back to work. This president is not addressing the fundamental problems of the economy. Would you address the question i proposed. Why the democrats . John glenn the misery index of our children, i would like to know what that is going to be. We are talking 200 billion year deficit and we are letting that drive Interest Rates up and we are driving down exports. We are increasing the misery index for our children. Anyone can live on borrowed money for a while. But there are things that have to go into that index for the future. This administration has taken a very short view on that, also. This is caused by cutbacks in education. It goes beyond high school, getting a decent education. I have put forward a threepart program of volunteers for america, where our young people being assured of getting a college education. We are talking about the difficulty in investigating in new plant equipment here. We are talking about cutbacks in research. The japanesegermans are increasing their research while we are cutting back. It is not just an economic matter. It is economic matters for the future that will cause our children to live in economic misery index that should not be there lot. We can do better than that. Mr. Reagan has done something that i didnt expect a conservative president to do. He has bought us an artificial recovery for some people. By spending 200 billion a year more than he takes in. Im sure some of the viewers listening think we are making partisan judgments here today about the president , but his own economic advisor, the chairman of economic advisers has said that this deficit is a time bomb that is going to go off after the election. It will drive Interest Rates through the ceiling and that is the end of the recovery. He has also said what is covering what is causing the deficit is a wild inflation with military spending. It is an extravagant military spending binge that goes way beyond any defense requirements that we have. And secondly, it is inefficient and unjust law that is permitting billions of dollars to go through the loopholes to the highest income corporations in the country. Jesse jackson my concern is that we feel the tragic pain of the misery index rising but democrats will not make a difference if we go in the same direction, just a little slower. If mr. Hart and mr. Mondale cannot show at our convention, they then add to the misery of women who need to become empowered. Could you go over that again . I got kind of lost. Jesse jackson what im saying is that our connection is not 50 female. 70 of all cultures live in a house with a woman. , we areonsider as commitment to cutting a to American Education and extending a two el salvador, we are extending that misery they can only arise in poverty. Now we get into a few minutes of freewheeling in which you are at liberty to attack each other. Let me try one thing. Arent most of you actually for an increase in tax spending . I am not. I think this can be done without touching anything that is important to our national defense. I am a bomber pilot in the second world war. I would not advocate anything that i thought touched the essential defense of this country. But some of the most thoughtful people have looked at the military budget and say it is loaded with waste and costs and noncompetitive bidding. If we had somebody like lee i toke up as the secretary of defense, and he would do for the pentagon what he would do for the chrysler motors, we could have a good tough defense for at least 2025 less money. Then you have the money to do other things. I suspect Jesse Jackson is not out of phase with that question. It requires that we at this point have some kind of congressional oversight that allows us to become managed. Right now it is unmanageable. The nobid contracts i support the need for troops in europe. There are 50,000 troops in japan. This would help to share some of the burden. If we can cut the defense by at least 25 , the budget, not the defense, that is the money for new ideas. We have two cutters. I understand the position taken by the other three. This is for cutting what the president has requested in addition. But you still would favor a certain increase in the Defense Budget . Am i right . Let me answer this. I am for reducing the reagan military buildup by 150 billion in the next 45 years. I spell that out in great detail. Im the only member of the group who has 10 years of experience in the Armed Services committee. I will to you why i disagree with george and jesse. One is that we have to increase over Ronald Reagan what we paying our military personnel to retain the most skilled personnel among other things to avoid going back to a very fear nonstyle draft. Secondly, even after spending 650 billion in the last three years, the pentagon admits we have fewer combat ready divisions than we had in 1980 under the carter administration. That means Ronald Reagan is plundering the readiness counts of our conventional forces for a procurement those up which will make as weaker. Before we go on, maybe we can find a way to make this more understandable. You present is asked for a 13 increase this year in allocations for defense . That is a 13 increase . What would your figure b . In that context . Minus about 4 . If we can keep it to that, it will make more sense. Not to argue with senator hart why not . [laughter] he wrote a dissenting opinion in which he seemed to say he wanted as much or more military spending as mr. Reagan. But we make my point. One of the realities of the modern president ial leadership is that as much as we want to bring the Defense Budget down, and i do, as much as you want to get rid of Weapons Systems that dont buy us defense, as much as we need a tough system of testing and warranties, as much as we need arms control to help bring down pressure, the inescapable fact is that the soviet union, it is a powerful military nation using its power irresponsibly in cambodia and afghanistan and elsewhere. And at present, the United States has you everything to manage the budget sensibly and wisely. He cannot fail to effectively discharge the National Security interests of our country. That is a tough balance. But the president must do it. Can you give me a percentage . About 4 . I am at about 6 . My two colleagues on the right feel here, that we could cut our defense establishment beyond all reality as far as keeping the security of the country. I have proposed cutting 50 million out. I have specified where that would be. It would be in the Rapid Deployment force. For the soviets, it has been relentless since the cuban missile crisis days. The former Vice President would cut the cruise missiles and the foreign troops. He would cut the m1 tank. He would cut much of the volunteer army. I propose that would leave this country emasculated. The only thing to pull back from has been the trident missile and the cruise missile. Mr. Hart opposed the the patriot hellfire, the missiles, weve Country Program of leadership in washington that is taller is better. Rather than stressing our technology. That is a fundamental difference between us. Im saying that every single thing we put out there has to work and work properly. But we cannot go back to a smaller, simpler day warehouse we wind up matching our numbers of, versus the soviets, as opposed to using what we have done in every war, which is to use every technology to keep from using so many people out there. To put distance between the enemy with technology. I have fought in the wars. I know what it is like to want the best technology because my life depended on it. So i do not agree with these smaller and simpler approach. Let me respond, if i may . Now we have four out of five hand up. It goes gary hart, Jesse Jackson, mcgovern and mondale. You are on. What senator glenn doesnt address is the need for more units of all these things. Weekend afford more when the each cost 3. 5 billion. We are behind the soviets and we are falling behind in almost every category because we are worshiping technolog