He is the author of the book till the murder that shocked the world and propelled the Civil Rights Movement. It is one of the most definitive on the subject. I have the privilege to work on tills case,mett starting in 2002, to work on the reopening of the case, and to have the United StatesCongress Passed the emmett till unsolved civil rights crime act. That is being reauthorized again. Congress is working on it right now. We expected next several weeks for that to pass. [applause] Devery Anderson is an editor at signature books in utah and is working on a masters degree in publishing at the George Washington university. He is the editor and coeditor of several books on mormon history, and in 2015, the University Press of mississippi book emmett till the murder that shocked the world and propelled the Civil Rights Movement. It will be the basis of a miniseries produced by jayz, will smith and others. He has spoken in the United States and the united kingdom. His research has resulted in over a dozen trips to mississippi and chicago, where he interviewed key players and conducted archival research. He is researching a book on the mississippi freedom summer. He lives in celtic city and is the father of three children. Now, to introduce another participant i only have to say one sentence. His name is Crosby Kemper iii,000 books in5 his personal library. Thank you. [applause] good evening to everybody. We will talk about alvin later, because he is an important subject of this conversation, as many of you know. I want to start out by asking the obvious question. You are a mormon historian and documentarian. The emmett till case does not seem to be in that wheelhouse, exactly. What led you into your interest in the emmett till case . First of all, thank you very much for having me here. Admire alvin so much. It is great to be here with this Friendly Group tonight. I moved to selig city in 1994. I was a student of the university of utah, moved there to go to school. Around the time the semester started, i had my library card and Public Library card and this was back when we had videos and not dvds. We dont really have those anymore. This is back in the old days. I saw a series on the shelf about the Civil Rights Movement and i checked out the first couple of tapes. Thefirst segment was about emmett till case. It was 1994. It just grabbed me immediately, like nothing ever had in my life. Within a couple of weeks or months, people were asking about i was asking people about emmett till and i wanted to learn more about it, outside of the video. There was not much. There was a book that i found and i read it. There was another one that came out and i read the books and wanted to read more. There was not much. It consumed me right away and did not let me go. Really, for a minute. One thing led to another. I came to know the mother of emmett till. I never met her in person. We became friends and the case became a personal connection and we became good friends. One of the people i admired more than anyone in this world. When she died, this is one alvin this is when alvin came into the scene and the case was reopened and i was hoping emmett tills mother and i realized there was something in me that had to come out. I was not happy with other books that had come out. Others attempted to do what they did well, but nobody wrote a comprehensive book. I could write about what happened and the federal government is involved and all of these things are happening. I dont know how this book on history was going to end. Almost everybody, probably everybody in the audience, knows something about emmett till. He was a young boy in mississippi. Tell the story. Give us the outline of what actually happened in 1955. He was an africanamerican youth and had family in mississippi. 14 years old. Just completed eighth grade. Went with a cousin for the last two weeks of the summer and spent time with a relative and they got there during cotton picking time. After his arrival, he and his cousin, after being on the field, went to money. They went to downtown, with a street with a couple of stores. One of them was the grocery and meet market. The Bryant Grocery and meat market. They went to get some refreshment. I think there were seven or eight of them. Emmett till went to buy some bubblegum. After he left the store, according to witnesses his cousins and others who were there, the wife of the storekeeper was working behind the counter that night. Mr. Kemper she was a beauty queen. Mr. Anderson she had one these beauty pageants. She was known to be pretty. A local beauty. Outside, he whistled at her. A wolf whistle. That upset her and people he was with. She went towards the car and people said, oh, shes going to get a gun. Lets get out of here. They left. This was on a wednesday night , august we fourth. On saturday night, going into sunday morning at 2 00, some men pounded at the door and he opened the door. A man had a flashlight and a gun. On the another man was there with him and another man was on the porch. The two man in the front barged in and went room to room until they found the boy they were looking for. They did not know his name. They knew who he was. They went to him and said, are you the one who did the smart talk the other night . He said, yeah. Of course, they were upset that siraid yeah, and not, yes, like they would do in the south back then. They took him outside. They heard what sounded like a womans voice say, yes. They put him in the car and they drove off. They kidnapped him at gunpoint and the following wednesday mr. Kemper they all pretty much admitted that they had taken him. Mr. Anderson right. Between the time of the kidnapping and when the body was found, it was just seen as a kidnapping. Each man admitted that they took him and said they let him go. Because it turned out he wasnt the right they were arrested on one. Kidnapping charges on sunday and monday and, on wednesday, a fisherman was in his boat and he looked in the distance and saw a pair of knees protruding. He met a call and the sheriffs tallahasseee county and Leflore County came. Tallahassee was where they believe the body was found on the river. They called moses and he identified him as his nephew. We now had a murder case. Here he is, murdered over a wolf whistle. That was the news of the day, a boy killed for a wolf whistle. This was 1955. Brown versus board of education happened the year before. The Civil Rights Movement was starting and the high point moments and the background. There were five candidates and they were all segregationist. There was the background and it became a national story. The family is in chicago and it became a north versus south thing immediately. Mr. Anderson yeah, the governor of illinois wrote the governor of mississippi. Asking them to take action, and of course, mississippi was very about the outside influence. As the rest of the nation came down the mississippi, that put them in a situation were they became more and more defensive. By the time of the trial mr. Kemper you suggested, if it had just then a murder trial, it could have gone a different direction. Becameners suddenly sectional about it rather than about justice. Mr. Anderson it could have. Early on, editorials made their way to the press and just public opinion, very much in sympathy till, early on, for a few days. But once they were attacked by others and they felt others trying to tell them how to deal with what they felt was a local situation, yeah, the tide really changed. It is not just something that historians have looked back and looked at the evidence. Newspaper editors were saying, in the last few days, everything had shifted in defense of the men in the south because of that reason. Mr. Kemper Huge National attention. As soon as the trial began the wasws Media Attention anonymous. There were 60 or 70 people from all of the major news outlets, etc. . Mr. Anderson yeah. The trial began a few weeks after the murder. His body was discovered the men august 31. Went on trial on september 19. It was not even three weeks later. Suddenly, the world was watching the trial. Mr. Kemper was a very different path to justice today. Mr. Anderson yes. Mr. Kemper the trial happens immediately and the end of lacey p the naacp takes this on and wilson becomes a major player in this. Mr. Anderson right. Mr. Kemper the trial comes about that, to some extent. About the end of lacey p the naacp. Mr. Anderson right. A thing i need to point out is the interim between when the body was discovered. The body was so badly beaten, and between the beating and, of course, being in the river for a few days, it was pretty much beyond recognition and it was a horrifying sight. The mother was able to identify him, she looked him over closely, and her argument was that a mother knows her son. I think the steps really true. When she saw the body, she said there is no way she could explain what im seeing. The world needs to see what im saying. She insisted on the open casket funeral. Tens and tens of people went by the body and they saw it first hand, reacting emotionally. If you see the film footage, people were fainting and becoming emotional at seeing the 14yearold boy brutally murdered. But also the press David Jackson and simeon booker, still just retired a decade ago they went to the funeral home. They took photos. They were published in jet magazine and the black press, the chicago defender. Other papers. Everybody was seeing that. So, now, this created so much publicity and that is why so many reporters descended upon sumner, mississippi, the county seat, for this trial. Mr. Kemper and famous reporters. Dan wakefield, from the nation and the west point daily news. Mr. Anderson yeah, they were all there. Wakefield is still living there and, hopefully, reading this. I interviewed several of the reporters who are still alive. There is a big question about whether mobley will come down for the trial and congressman diggs, an africanamerican congressman, weighs in. It is a Huge National event, this trial. International press covered it and these guys, they have essentially admitted they were kidnappers and they are put on trial. How did the trial come out and how could it have possibly come out that they would be found not guilty . Mr. Anderson they were charged with kidnapping and murder, but the murder trial occurred in september 1955. So they were considering murder. The defense argument was that too badlyas decomposed, too badly beaten into religion fight. Here is the interesting thing. When the body was discovered on august 31, there were two counties involved, Leflore County and tallahassee county the sheriff, when he saw the body, the morning was found said , that it looked at the body of a black person and they brought the body to a black undertaker, with segregation, even in death. He said the body looks like itd been in the river for two days and he used a pencil to go into the skull to see how deep the hole was. It looked like he had either done from a bullet or an axe. Comeay his skull had apart, it looked like someone might have taken an ax on top of his head and come down. By the time of the trial the , sheriff changed his mind, by the time of the trial, at the burial. Suddenly he said he didnt know , if it was black or white. He said, it came out of the river, it was as white as i am. He said that he only knew it was a human being and that he thought that emmett till was still alive and that this was a hoax. Mr. Kemper a hoax perpetrated by the naacp. Mr. Anderson so, here is where they come into these story. Mississippi being fed these lines. Of course, they didnt like the naacp and this just cemented their hate for the naacp. So, the sheriff comes up with the story on the tuesday, the day that he was buried. And later he says, at the trial, that he had investigated other missing person cases and it that she was thinking it mustve been one of them. It wasnt emmett till. It was interesting. He let the body stay buried in chicago. He did not want to exume the and return it to the south. How would they ever know who it was . It was such a scam, on his part. I dont think anybody really believed mr. Kemper you say that in the book. That nobody actually believed that. Mr. Anderson the jurors did not, but it gave them a reason to vote as they did. The testimony was two and a half days. They had to be careful selecting a jury. They had to weed out mr. Kemper they were very careful. An allwhite jury, of course. Mr. Anderson no woman could serve on the jury. There was not a black registered voter in tallahassee county. And it was a jury of 12 white men. The jury pool was 120 men and it came down to these 12. Testimony started on the wednesday. The trial began on monday. Testimony begins on wednesday. The prosecution took a day and a half to present their witnesses, toses write moses wrigh being the star witness. Testified. They testified that these men came into the house and emmett tills mother testified. One way they were able to identify him was because of a ring on his finger that have been passed down to him from his father, who was dead. He was known to wear this ring. His cousin saw him wearing it in mississippi. And when the body was retrieved, this ring with his fathers initials was still on his fingers. Those another way they were able to identify him. The defense argued that they put the ring on another body and put the body in the river. This was the defense argument. They only made it in closing arguments. They didnt present this during the trial. They only presented it in closing arguments, a terrible thing to suddenly do, without allowing any sort of cross examination on that point. Also the sheriff testified that , he didnt think the body was emmett till, but nobody else testified said that they thought it was a hoax. Mr. Kemper a southern editor pointed out, it was pretty remarkable to find somebody with the same ring size as emmett tills body that quickly. Mr. Anderson exactly. None of that made any sense, but allowed the jury something to cling to. On the on the fifth day of the friday, trial, the jury deliberated for about an hour and quebec with a verdict of not guilty and the men were set free. During the testimony, the sheriff testified that the men admitted to kidnapping him and the defense argued, did you read them their rights . Or you talking to them as a friend or as a sheriff . You knew these men from the local community. And the sheriff said, i think, yeah, i guess im a friend. It didnt matter that he had this confession. It was how he got it. Were you talking as a sheriff or a friend . If you are a friend, it is ok to admit to kidnapping. It was really bizarre. So, the kidnapping part seemed open and shut. The murder part, they argued it was circumstantial because they didnt see the men with the body , no one saw him killed, all of this stuff. Mr. Kemper but as you point out, they did not exhume the body, so there was no forensic evidence around that, which seems fairly deliberate on their part. A little over an hour and they come back with the verdict. The kidnapping, that trial happens a little later. Mr. Anderson yeah, that was november. Mr. Kemper how do they justify that . Mr. Anderson it is interesting. Everybody was really shocked that they were indicted. In mississippi at the time, nobody was really brought on charges for these rice for these race crimes. Rarely indicted. They were acquitted there and then went back to jail. They got out on bail a week later. Then in november of 55, this is a month and a half after the murder trial ended, the grand jury in Leflore County met to discuss the kidnapping charges. This time, after meeting the grand jury, they returned with no true bill, they decided not even to indict them. And here is where they had the confession. And the grand jury and the sheriff of Leflore County again testified these men admitted to kidnapping emmett till and the testified fort the grand jury, and so did another man, and the grand jury didnt even indict them on something that should be open and shut. There was nothing circumstantial about the case. But they were released, and the men were never again connected to this in any official way and there was no further attempt to prosecute them at all. Mr. Kemper so it would seem to , be the end of the story, but it is 1955 and not the end of the story. You tell an interesting story about dr. Howard, i think it is . He goes to give a speech in montgomery and is a civil rights leader who is connected to the case. He is there with a young preacher named Martin Luther king. In the audience, a woman named rosa parks. Connect that for us. They have the residents being inspiration. Mr. Anderson right, and you really set the context for that the jury acquitted these men on this outrage throughout the september 23. Country and overseas began. There were protests rallies going on and several were sponsored by local labor unions. Throughout the country and paris, the vatican responded in their official newspaper and we have this outrage. Dr. Hour,ember 27, the most militant civil rights leader mississippi of the time, very hated by the white south. He was a doctor and wealthy. He was black and an activist. But did not go over too well with the White Community at the time. He was going around the country and speaking about the atrocities of the emmett till case. November 27, 1955 he speaks at , dexter Avenue Baptist Church , where Martin Luther king has been minister for about a year and he gives this powerful right in the midst of all of these rallies going on all over but he comes to montgomery, Martin Luther king is there. Theives the prayer, invocation, the benediction. And also rosa parks is in the crowd. Years later when she was interviewed for eyes on , she talked about remembering it. Four days later, she refused to give up her seat on the bus. That began the montgomery bus boycott. And the mother of emmett till, at her funeral, a statement was read, saying maybe mobleys courage has helped others act, including others. We have the direct quote of her talking retrospectively about how the case moved her. She couldnt have helped but been moved by the atmosphere and she is moved after dr. Howard spoke. So, this is a