Members were contingent and unsecure with their jobs. Now its over 70 . That trend seems to be continuing. The trend of state legislatures defunding Higher Education gradually shifting the cost from taxpayers to students, thats now a 25 year trend. Trends like that dont always and quickly. I think theres a future for state funding in higher Public Education is not great. Both of those things do not mind mote bode well for maintaining Higher Education. If i were to recommend anything i would recommend the federal government pay for public Higher Education and make it freeforall children come to all americanamerican s. 60 billion a year and a couple of battleships left, we have actually made public Higher Education a genuine public good. I think without some fundamental change the quality is going to erode. Scientists all over the country having to choose the basic research that will bring in the most dollars. Rather they choose the research that will do the most good for the people in the United States and across the world. This is the system, the american Higher Education system that has thrived on freedom and has thrived him people being able to follow their imagination and do what they think is most vital and interesting. That made it for half a century a great system of higher to k. Chin and i need to preserve it. Cspan velasco question. Knowing what you know about whats been going on a pass on whats going to happen in the future would you become a professor again . Guest i really cant imagine doing anything else. There are moments in my classes that are sometimes but my students and i struggle with questions that we really cant answer but that are vitally important. We spend a couple of hours doing that. If the freedom to pursue the intellectual questions that matter to me the most, that has really been just thrilling. I wouldnt take a different career. Cspan cary nelson professor at the university of illinois, when is your term over . Guest june of 2012. Cspan we think you very much in the title of the book is no university is an island. Guest thanks for having me on in spite of the earthquake. That is what made it memorable. [laughter] for a dvd copy of this program call 18776627726. For free transcriptranscrip ts or to give sure comments about this Program Visit us at q. End date. Org. Q a programs are also available at cspan podcasts. Coming up next booktv presents after words an hourlong program where we invite guest host to interview authors. This week author and civil rights activists Clarence Jones discusses his new book, behind the dream. In that the former adviser and speechwriter for dr. Martin luther king, jr. Examines the creation of the i have a dream speech. The Stanford StanfordUniversity Scholar in residence also discusses his relationship with the civil rights leader and several of his fellow advisers. He speaks with herb boyd. Host Clarence Jones i am blessed and astonisheastonished to be with you because over the years all of my books have been trying to catch up with you to get a few quotes in a better understanding of dr. Kings life. He spent a solid eight years with him. I know for five books out there david garos buck Taylor Branch they mentioned you and they cite you. I said i need to catch up with him because i need to get that same information. I was never successful but someone else was trying to catch up with you and that was docked or king. Your first book combo there is a riveting section in which you talk about the first encounters and the first time you had an opportunity guest the opening paragraph quick way, first of all im delighted to be here and have the opportunity to talk with you. We have so many mutual friends in common. Your question brings me back so many years to february of 1960. I was 29 years old and im going to be 80 years old on january 28. 1960 at was just years out of law school. I got a call from a distingin nuied york city, coule delaney. He had known me and given me a letter of recommendation for law school. He called me and said clarence, he said i am taking on the chief defense counsel and defending dr. King from Montgomery Alabama who has been indicted for perjury and tax evasion on his state income tax return. We have three other excellent attorneys, to Tax Specialist from chicago. So he talked to me about the cases. But we need a law clerk. We knew need someone to do the legal research. Today a law clerk of course has looking for justice of the Supreme Court of the appellate system. On the defense case i was essentially going to be a legal over but geographically it was in Montgomery Alabama and i was in california. I listened and they said well judge i will be willing to help you do anything i can to do research. No, no you have to come here clearance. And i said im just at the start of the law career. He said that is why i am calling you. Whatever youre doing im not trying to denigrate it anyway but this would ease some good experience for you. I said judge im sorry i just cant do it. It was very difficult to say no to him. It was really difficult to say no to him. Host that was on a thursday night and on friday morning i get another call in this time he says i didnt know it at the time of my telephone conversation but you know dr. King is planning a speaking engagement in california and in fact he is in the area now. Before he left i told him that he should try to see you when he gets there. I gave him your telephone number and so forth. I listened and i thought to myself the judge doesnt give up. That is what i thought to myself i said im not going to leave. I was in the suburbs. I wasnt going to leave and meets dr. Martin kaine. So he said no, no. I told him he needs to come to your home and that was friday night. It was all arranged. Two gentlemen are standing at the door. They both one has to have gone in the phone with a hat on says mr. Jones i am martin kaine. This is my colleague i think he said. He had worn rimmed glasses on. He comes into my home and sits down and at that time i had a reasonably nice home and in some ways you might say i was not quite living large but i was living semilarge. My wife who is now deceased compton and, now deceased. There was a cherry in the middle of the living room and a retractable ceiling and all this. That was great in now and by the way just to put it in context this is 1960. Dr. King had been successful in the montgomery bus boycott. The Supreme Court in 1957, between 57 and 1960 and i dont member the exact date the Supreme Court handed out a decision outlawing segregation. And he was on the cover of time magazine. So an common vernacular and again he would be considered a celebrity, right . And my wife, she reacted to him like he was a celebrity. When i told her he was coming, you would have thought a combination of moses and jesus christ in Michael Jackson and George Clooney sydney party a everything you can think of all rolled into one. She was so you know. Host she knew it in advance that he was coming. Guest oh yes, sir yes. He comes into the house and he sits down and we go right he gets right to the point. He says you know mr. Jones there are lots of white lawyers who help us in the south and help us in our work. He didnt say in the south. He said that what we need are young black lawyers and young black professionals. Joseph delaney has spoken so highly about you and i would hope that you would help me in this case because he thinks so much of you. And he described what he was doing and then he asked me some questions about myself. I told him well you know was an only child and my mother was a mother was the maid and a cook and my father was a chauffeur. Host you were born in philadelphia. Guest born in philadelphia and my mother and father were a chauffeur and a gardener. I was born january 8, 1931 and in the only house they had. It was a house of people that they work as servants so i have this recollection before the age of six of being in four different foster families. The foster families were friends of my parents to looking back they probably said would you keep little clarence for us . By the time i was the age of six my mother said we have to change this so they put me in a catholic boys school. Then i went to Public School and you know i told them that my mother died when i was a junior at Columbia College and she never lived to see me graduate. I was only 19 years old. A lot of things. And i repeated i really would like to help you and they said dr. King i said i will do anything here that i can. Now to be contextual again no cell phones no blackberries. I dont remember if they were fax machines. I dont think there were any fax machines. In fact when he wanted to send something urgent youth went to the post office and Senate Special delivery. I believe they had mail grams but if you wanted to get a document unless you used a special courier just a few minutes out of the door and my wife turns to me and she says to me, what are you doing that is so important that you cant help this man became all this distance to see you and ask for your help . I went hold on a minute. That is not quite accurate. He didnt come all this ways to see me. He had a speaking engagement in california anyway. Judge delaney stopped by. Then she said well, she could she pushed me and i do remember saying look just because he got his hand caught in the cookie jar that is not my problem. He wasnt guilty and wasnt being indicted. She looked at me and she said i dont believe you. You just graduated from law school and i know the way i feel. And she was angry at me. Then i began to be angry at martin king. Like young couples and so forth we had no major issues between us and hear this preacher comes to my house and in a matter of two hours gets my wife angry at me so i am angry at him. The next morning and i dont want to spend too much time that the next morning he called me and i picked up the phone. Mr. Jones . I said yes. My name is door and mcdonald. This was the secretary. My name is Doren Mcdonald and you know mr. Jones dr. King enjoyed so much his visit with you and mr. Jones but he forgot, he forgot to tell you that he wanted youtube, as his guest. He is preaching in los angeles on sunday. I listened and so i took down the information. The phone was on the wall in the kitchen and my wife is standing there and i turned to her and i told her what was said and she turned to me again early in the morning, 9 30 in the morning california time. She said you may not be going to montgomery that you are going to the church. I said the invitation is for both of us. She said no, you go. So i go to the church. Its in Baldwin Hills in 1960. The ball then hills i assume you know Baldwin Hills is in california, Southern California the community before successful blacks could move to brentwood belair. This is where the artist the businessman and the lawyers and doctors, where anybody lived if you have any money. Reverend h. B. Charles my memory was a minimum of 1500 maybe more but i think it was 1500 in the church. Dr. King is introduced and then he gets up and he says ladies and gentlemen, no brothers and sisters the text of my sermon today is the role and responsibility of the professional in aiding our misfortune of brothers and sisters struggling for their freedom in the south. So i thought to myself compact this is one smart dude. He came to the right church in the right place to deliver his message. I had never heard him speak before. I had seen him but i had never heard him speak before. So he began to speak in greater detail and greater eloquence and greater passion in an oratory ape passionate description of the struggle. Then he pauses and im sitting like not in the middle but one third toward the front. He never looks at me and he says for example there is a young man sitting in this church today. My friend in new york whom i respect, they tell me that this young man has been touched by the lord. They tell me that this man is being touched by jesus. When he goes into the law library and read things they tell me my new york friends who i respect that he goes all the way back to 1066. We were able to conquer the magna carta and then when this young man writes down, they tell me that the words are so compelling that they jump off the page. Im thinking to myself i absolutely dont have the slightest idea that he is talking about me. I am thinking to myself i have only known for seven months and i knew starting out as a young person just like today its about networking so im thinking to myself i want to meet this dude that he is describing. He is going to help me get ahead. And then he continues on. He says i had a chance to visit with this young man. I said oh lord, you know. Then he began to tell the Church Things that he told the Church Things that i told them about myself which were set in private, not necessarily confidential but private. The only analogy i can give you is roberta has the song killing me softly with your song. He was killing me softly with stories that i had given him about my life particularly about my parents. And then he said, he quoted this poem and he sort of changed a little bit. By putting my mother in that position of the scrubbing the flo uses the point like so many of you sitting in this audience today wouldnt be here but for the fact that somebody worked in somebodys white folks house to make it possible for you to be a lawyer. As he began to talk about this and particularly as he began to put my lot mother within the context of the Langston Hughes poem tears began to come down my face. It was like it just you know,. Guest i am really just touched. Guest as i said he was a celebrity standing on the steps of the pulpit and as im walking toward him he looks at me looking like the cheshire cat that swallowed the mouse. He said i never mentioned your name mr. Jones. I never mentioned her name. I just kept walking toward him and he said you know youll understand the baptist preachers sometimes have to make an example to make our point. I just kept walking toward him and i extended my hand to him and i put my hand in his hand and i said dr. King when do you want me to come to Montgomery Alabama . The deal was sealed. Actually i dont think i called what martin said about me but the subtext of the title shouldve been it changed my life there is no question about it. Guest so clarence you go on what happened with the case . Guest , the case. Think about this. In april and i cant remember the exact month but the case he is acquitted by an allwhite jury. Guest it was may 6, 1960. The reason he was acquitted, you know bob layton, these two tax attorneys in chicago, go one hit then a supervisor for the Internal Revenue service. One was the supervising attorney for the Internal Revenue service and the other had been a tax examiner for the revenue service. They would early destroyed the states case. It was clear to me that the only way that those 12 white people could come back and made the conviction, they said, im sure they must have said we cant convict him because we are going to look like a fool. Racism may be something but pride is something else. They just just dried the governments case. How can a convict somebody . They would look like fools. That was amazing. You know we had some great lawyers obviously as you know from the 1954 case with charlie houston and hamilton and Thurgood Marshall n. Carter and those guys, clarence, i cant encode his [inaudible] host all the way down to johnny cochran. Guest oh please come could johnny cochran. Host what happened in terms of the transition from being his attorney to being a confidant with his speeches and everything . Guest i ended up being first of all there theres the person i have not mentioned and his name is Stanley David leveson. Host should americans know who he is . Guest they should know if they read this book. This book is dedicated to Stanley David leveson. Now why do i do that . Stanley leveson matt martin came in the late 1956 i believe, early 1957. He was an independently wealthy real estate attorney, Real Estate Management attorney. He developed a with martin came primarily in terms initially a fundraising. Stanley have this art of writing appeal letters, fundraising appeal letters. Virtually all of the letters solicited money under the martin named on letterhead and were not entirely written by martin. They were written by family members. Stanley and i became very good friends when i came to new york. Host you move to riverdalriverdal e. Guest i move to riverdale in 1961. I immediately began working with not Cleveland Robinson but one of the top labor leaders in harlem. A. Philip randolph and stanley but particularly with stanley. Stanley de facto was the de facto northern officer of the conference which was in effect the fundraising arm and jack odell was a key figure. Interesting both jack and stanley organized the leftwing background. When i say organized they were members of the communist party. Stanley and his brother identical twins were members of the communist party up until 1956 i believe. Not i believe, i know and they broke with the party over this soviet and i mean severed all relationships. I have often thought the Civil Rights Movement and the relationship with martin came became a substitute for stanley. Stanley was such an intensely organized person. He never had the relationship of the communist party and martin came with the southern leadership became with the communist party had been to hi