and says don't tax me. my service or my good should be excluded from this, and pretty soon, you have a very complicated tax. i just have to say and this is coming from me as an administrator, not as a policymaker, human nature being what it is people are going to come in no matter what tax we have for special rules and special rules make complexity. >> host: nice to see you again. we appreciate coming in from time to time to answer viewers'l taxpayer advocate created by congress in representing you the irs. >> good evening and welcome. this is the first time our republican candidates for governor will debate. we're airing live throughout texas on television radio and online. i'm kera news direct or shelley kofler. we've asked the audience to hold applause during the debate. but right now put your hands together. you are invited to welcome our candidates. [applause] our candidates are -- let's introduce our candidates. our candidates are set to come a three term u.s. senator and former texas. senator hutchison is 66 years old and grew up near houston. debra medina former republican party chair and registered nurse. ms. medina was born north of corpus christi. she is 47. and rick perry has been governor since december 2000 is a former lieutenant governor from a native of paint creek near abilene. now for the next hour i'll be joined in questioning the candidates by mariemaria renee barillas a reporter with kuvn univision 23. and some 11 montgomery chief for the star fort worth telegram. joining us is the news anchor for cbs 11 t. xa 21 in dallas were worth. dogs in the audience aeneas nor now about this debate. schenectady mutuality watching statewide. here's the format to the debate tonight. all three candidates have agreed to keep answers to one minutes, but also respond to an anticipated follow questions by. now the shoe generates debate or differences among the candidates the moderator may allow for additional discussion. each candidate will also give the opportunity to ask each opponent a question in addition to what do you ask us tonight obeah tonight show pitcher fielding questions from voters in the audience and social media of our time permits. >> back to you to get the debate underway. mac thank you. our first question just while the candidates tonight and the order of antler growth on a drawing. so governor perry first, senator hutchison max and ms. medina third. here is the question. and for the current in washington. governor medina in particular tax and may be interestedh in succeeding for the united states. we want to know how far would you go to break ties in washington? name one federal program to you really like and then tell us whether you would wish to end any specific program or law. governor perry. >> the program that i love the most that the federal government is involved with is our united states military forces. there is not anything that i would do except make sure that we take care of those veterans who come back after spending time that they have looking after our freedoms. but that is the greatest program that the military or that the united states government has. i would tell people i said are three things the government ought to do really well. two of our mail, stand military and defend our borders. i guess one out of three ain't bad. [laughter] >> will governor you've also been critical. there is a word that a sort of on the campaign circles these days. nullification or it talus, which you want to know if i or end in a specific program, any federal program that we are now involved with your deck this? >> i was talking on a radio program enough a question. i said here is the real issue. health care is a great example of what people are talking about on the nullification issue. we have to be working every day and spending every waking hour that we can push in washington back on the explaining to people just how bad nationalized health care will be. how much it will cost this country and how poorer health care will be. that's the real job we need to be doing in set of talking about someone it's an what if that happens. i think that's a waste of time frankly at this particular point in time. we have heard that it is hanging by a thread. you know, i hope that our senior senator will get back to washington d.c. and cut the thread veered that's where she needs to be. >> is there any program you would know if i or end? >> or is not a program that i know from the nullification process. again, i'll get back to what i said earlier is that we need to be working to stop his programs before they ever get to the point where you can start talking about the concept of nullification. >> you been critical of a stimulus package and yes we have $12 billion in our state budget that comes from stimulus money. some people think maybe that's a hypocritical position. >> shelley, we spend a lot of money to washington d.c. billions of dollars to washington d.c. i wish we didn't spend that much money up there. i will be a whole lot happier if the gasoline tax would discount it all in the state of texas and belt are roses instead of sending it to washington d.c. and they send as 70 cents of it back just for road construction. i think texas would be a lot better off we didn't have the money up there at all from the standpoint of a gas tax. but the fact is we spend billions of dollars in income tax. and when it comes back without strings attached -- you bet your we're going to take it. >> thank you, governor. senator hutchison, the same question please. he's been part of congress and you've been familiar with washington. can you name the federal program that you like most and then tell us if you would whether you would push to end or nullify any specific federal program. >> well, first of all, it is our military that is my favorite program and i serve on the military committees, have been chairman and now ranking member of our military construction of veterans affairs. i think our military does a great job and that is the key thing that we ought to be doing rights in congress. but i do want to say, shelley, that i have been in congress. i am fighting against the government takeover of health care. i am fighting against the government encroachment in so many parts of our lives. i am fighting against new tax increases on energy. this cap-and-trade bill that is coming after health care reform is a terrible encroachment. i do want to differ with the governor in one respect and that is in highway funding. when i came to the united states senate we did get 76 cents back for every dollar we send to washington. i fought hard with our congressional delegation to get that up to 92 cents. and we do have 92 cents return. it is not 70 cents. and the tax thought that government control pass it on their website that it is a 92% return. and i'm glad to know that he is supporting the bell that i've actually introduced that would give us 100%. we should be able to opt-out of the highway trust fund. >> i think in reality -- i'm sorry. isn't it true there would need votes on capitol hill to take taxes out of that fund? >> you are right. where to start thinking differently and start taking the first step. in the first step is to introduce legislation that says why do we need a highway trust fund now? the purpose of the highway trust then was to build a national highway system for national security. that system has been dealt out. why should we send a sense of our dollars to other states? i do want to do that. that's why ventured is the legislation because we need to start talking about it and other states that have want to do the same ring when i came to congress that was 76 cents and it was a lot of labor on my part to get it to 92 cents. for him to say 70 is absolutely wrong. and i think he knows it. >> senator hutchison, very quickly in a specific or graham in place with the federal government of the joint texas that you would eliminate? >> support for acorn. we have been supporting acorn not knowing some of the activities that they were doing that were really stopping the free voting that we have in our country. so, yes. the government encroachment that we are seeing in this administration is scaring people to death. >> thank you very much. as the dean nassar same question. any federal program you like and which one would you know if i? >> well, shelley, before answer that question actors they thank you for all of texas to make sure we have a voice on the age tonight. with an average citizen can fit with a senator and a governor, it shows that it's still as a government of the people and by the people. you know, both have commented that we have to be proud of our military and we certainly all would salute the men and women who once served us in that regard. but i am not sure that we could apply the federal government for taking care of our u.s. military and saying that that is a job they've done well. we've let the veterans down time and again in providing equipment and needs on the battlefield and then we don't take care of them when they come home. so i am hard pressed to say that there's anything that that washington is doing well. >> the question really is is there any federal program you like. you have done interviews in which you have said only federal responsibility that you're supporting is their ability to make treaties. >> iraq. u.s. constitution article i section eight to find what the u.s. government ought to be doing and i would maintain that they are not doing anything that they ought to be doing well. either things that they should nullify? gas. we must nullify the nationalization of our health care and i think in texas we all have to be very concerned about the epa. it had to be running a very close second on the heels of health care. get the environmental protection agency out of energy and out of agriculture in texas and let texas take care of farmers and energy producers and with the tremendous economic gains in this day. >> thank you very much. our next question comes from the audience, for my listeners and viewers. with go to doug dunbar for that. >> shelley, were going social edf. this is from sherry wilken. scheer is a mother who is unemployed and lives in arlington right now. your husband is a construction worker and she fears that she is about to lose her unemployment benefits because of the limits. her question is very simple, what do you plan to do about unemployment which is now obviously standing at 8% here in the state of texas and we will begin with ms. medina. >> thank you, sherry for calling in tonight and participating in this debate. the government solutions. we texans understand that our free society rest on three pillars, individuals and families, communities and churches and the government. we must do things to get the government off at the back of the people so we can once again learned to care for one another. when we do that, when we get washington and epa out of bag and energy, when we restore true driver property ownership and eliminate property tax, that alone adds $3 billion to net personal income in taxes than 150,000 new jobs. those are real jobs, real economic and dvd that will help people like sherry and their families. >> ms. medina, thank you. governor kerry were at a% by now. this is under your tenure as governor of the great state of texas. what is your plan for unemployment? tonight nobody gets confused this is the best in the nation to be living in today. we were up in frisco for an event a couple months back and a man came up to me and said, i lost my job, but he said i will value that there is no other state in america i would rather be living in with having lost his job in texas because i know that the program that you will put in place i'll be able to find a job very thin. and that is the type of can-do spirit that you see in the state of texas. we lead the nation in the production -- in the development of jobs while america was losing 3 million jobs because of the washington type of spending it all spend it now approach. texas was getting almost 100,000 jobs, just this last november. and october re-created jobs in the state of texas. as what people want to see. low taxes and regulatory climate that is better. and a skilled resource which means our schools are funded and accountable. that is what people are looking for. taxes texas -- creating an environment for people to have a job, single most important thing that a governor will do. >> governor comment by the way wondered about the jobs you said you created under your administration in 2008 that would last well beyond that now, correct? >> no, sir. and we created more jobs from november of 07 to november of 08. texas created more jobs than the rest of the country combined. that's a fact. >> in texas did not lose more than 100,000 jobs. is that what you're saying? >> i'm telling you we created more jobs here if i do not display a message you any simpler. [laughter] governor, you are using the numbers from post 7208. >> let's talk about 09. >> in 09 we are creating jobs in october and november. that was not a state in the nation. name me one state in the nation, senator or mrs. medina that were creating jobs. it really wears me out the week that two people on the stage that want to tear texas down when the fact is everybody understands this is the state you want to live in. we want to come here. the state is growing by a thousand people a day not because were overtaxing them. they are coming here because they know this is the place to be, the land of opportunity. >> senator hutchison, please. >> the way we can create jobs for the women in arlington is to lower the burden on business so that this is the higher people. governor perry has increased taxes on business. the business margins tax, the unemployment tax because of the mismanagement of the funds has increased the burden on business and that means business is goin to hunker down and not hire people. what we need is an education system that trains are young people so that they will get the good jobs of the future and win 30% of our young people are not graduating from high school, that is not a state that is going to create the good jobs of the future. yes texas is the best state in america. it is not going to be the best state that creates jobs in the future if we don't lower the burden on business. and by the way, we definitely lost more jobs in texas this year than we gained. we lost 300,000 jobs in texas alone this year. that is not a record to be proud of. our unemployment rate is higher than every state in the surrounding area. so i think the governor talks about how good things are in texas is the greatest state in america. but if we don't do what the problems in this state we are not going to remain the best state in america and hiding from it is not the way to make it better. >> thank you, senator. we are going to move on. if you want to talk about what you do today to create jobs, we can do that. >> cut business expenses. if you are adding business expenses as the governor is, to our businesses and taxes are not going to create jobs. lowering taxes at the federal level would alter the same thing. >> thank you. ms. medina. >> it's important to point out we've lost jobs in the or. all those jobs that governor is talking about have come in the government sector. that's not economic prosperity. that is a greater burden for the businesses in the state and for the hard-working individuals in the state to kerry. we have added 14,000 jobs in the government-backed your -- lost 14,000 the area and added 156,000 jobs in the public sector, and the government sector in texas. >> we are going to move onto the next set of questions if you want to -- >> hold on a second. i'd like to respond to that because the fact is no governor has taxes more than we did. we got the business tax from 4% down to 1%. we cut property taxes by one third grade people are not moving to the state of texas than coming in the state is not growing by a thousand people a day because they are overtaxed. the texas association business didn't stand up with me when we were redoing our tax burden senator because they would taxis were. they saw the opportunity to cut taxes, our taxes are fair, lower, and broader. >> the news alone said you raise taxes more than any other in the history of texas. [laughter] the largest tax increase that we have had in our state is yours. it is the business margin tax the use science governor. the mac you are talking to oranges. when the tax association of business says this is the structure we want our taxes and senator that tells me something. you can talk and argue all you want about whatever it is. that is not a fact. >> you were supposed to lower property taxes and he didn't. >> i won third. >> let's move on. let's move on, please. we'll have more opportunity to talk about taxes. >> i hope so. [laughter] >> we also asked him questions that are candidate specific and dave have the first question for senator hutchison. >> senator hutchison, could you clarify your position on abortion. specifically do you believe that rove versus wade should remain in force or be reversed by the state republican advocates? >> let me say that my record is one that is always come down on the side of life. on my record in the section i have voted against partial-birth abortion, funding of abortion, content restraints, restraints on abortion without parental consent. i've promoted adoption and if i am governor of texas, i will do everything i can to limit, lower the number of abortions in this state and promote adoption. we don't want unwanted pregnancies. that's not good for anyone. talking about the supreme court of the land, we have had restrictions on abortion that has become the law of the land. and i think that is good. i don't want abortion havens. i don't want to have a freedom so that some states would allow partial-birth abortion and there are states that have actually have referendums that i've said they would want to a partial-birth abortion. so yes, that scares me. >> but still, your position on abortion has given some discomfort to republican activists in your party who take a pretty strong position on reversing roe v. wade. you think it should remain in effect are again be -- >> what conserves me as we would have some states that would allow a person as the baby is coming out of the birth canal. and i would never support that. i have voted against it. i don't want that to be in any state in our country. and that is the reason that i have stated that position. >> so you would not support the overturning of the roe v. wade? >> what i am saying is if it is overturned, you are going to have abortion havens. >> is there a yes or no to this? >> look i'm just telling you why i am concerned about having it overturned and then having abortion havens all over our country. >> are you saying it is overturned and waiting to black-market abortions essentially? >> legal abortions. that is what concerns me. i think you are looking at a whole -- but now we have restrictions that require reasonable that are the law of the land. >> so keep roe v. wade on the books? >> i think you have to look at what happens if it goes away. then, every state is allowed to do whatever its state legislature passes and we know there are states that would allow abortion under any circumstances, including partial-birth abortion. >> thank you, senator. the next question is from rené -- maria renee barillas enter question goes to ms. medina. >> gas, you can call me maria. senator, you have indicated that you oppose laws that indicate the right to bear arms. in fact year stated that you carry a gun in your car and that you don't have a concealed handgun license out the window and taxes you don't need one to carry one in your car. given how you feel, is there any type of restriction or limit as to who ca