good evening, everyone. thank you so much for coming. my name kim dorman and i'm the community engagement coordinator for the princeton public library. it's my pleasure to welcome you here. this and to introduce tonight's program. i want to start by thank you all for joining us. this program is presented with support from the national endowment for the humanities and in partnership with princeton university's, charming and beyond, most of our rahmani center for iran and persian gulf studies and labyrinth books. tonight's event will run for about one hour. dan sheffield, interim director for the sharmeen and bijan moss of our rahman center, will join author reza aslan in conversation about his new book, an american martyr in persia the epic life and tragic death of howard baskerville. following their conversation, we will reserve about 15 minutes for a question and answer session. there will be an opportunity to purchase copies of the book after the program from labyrinth. thank you very much. they will be $30 and mr. aslan has said he'll be happy to sign the books afterwards. reza aslan is an internationally acclaimed writer producer and scholar of religions. he is the author of the number one new york times bestseller zealot and editor of tablet and pen literary landscapes from the modern middle east. he lives in los angeles, california, just a few housekeeping notes that i'd like to mention before we again begin, please silence any electronic devices you've brought with you. please note that this room is t coil enabled. so if you have a t coil enabled device, please feel welcome to switch them on at this time. if you don't have a t coil enabled device but would like to use of our headsets, we've made them available on the piano. this is being recorded and on c-span. thank you very much and will be available to watch afterwards. without further ado, it's my pleasure to turn things over to mr. sheffield and mr. aslan. thank you very much to. thank you all so much for being here at a moment that we recognize one of, you know, great. anxiety and a moment in which many of us who love iran and love things iranian have quite a lot on our minds as the events of the last month stemming from the tragic and violent killing of mazor. zinn i mean, i mean, there have proceeded in the way in which we are all aware, resulting in violent crackdowns, the part of the iranian government and widespread protests throughout iran. so i imagine that we will, you know, be talking about the requests for democracy in iran, which in many ways, you know, has origins in the narrative that, uh, that dr. aslan has told in his latest book. imagine our conversation. well, we'll move to contemporary events as we proceed. but for now, let me just say a few words of introduction to introduce myself and our distinguished speaker here in order to to to begin our conversation with this wonderful book that we're here to celebrate, as kim has already mentioned, my name is daniel sheffield. i'm here as acting director of the simon and besa and most of our rahmani center for iran and persian gulf studies at princeton university, where i also am an assistant professor of iranian history in the department of near eastern studies. today i'm here to welcome someone who really needs no introduction. one of the most one of the best known interpreters of the study of religion and the contemporary american public sphere. this is reza aslan, born in tehran. in the 1970s, reza moved as a child to the united states, to the bay area in california, where he grew up in the years following the iranian revolution, the hostage crisis, years in which, you know, even revealing that, well, an iranian-american was, uh, revelation that, you know, carried some weight with it after earning degrees from clara university, harvard divinity school, the university of iowa writers workshop, and ultimately a ph.d. from university of california at santa barbara, reza presently serves as a professor of creative writing at the university of california, riverside. he's a prolific author whose books, i think are known to many of us, which include no god, god. 25 how to win a cosmic war, a book about fundamentalism. and 2009 zealot, a book about jesus and god, a sort of history of human religion published in 2017. he's a frequent commentator in diverse media, appearing regularly on a variety television and radio programs across the world. as such, his voice has become one of the most recognizable in american public discourse about religion, about christianity, the place of evangelism, and especially about islam and iran. today, i'm really happy to welcome reza here to princeton to speak about latest book, which, to my mind, you know, at least feels like a book, which in many ways also perhaps your most personal, you know, book to date. this is the story of young man, a princeton grad class of 1907 called howard, a man who, you know, grew up in various places in the united states, ultimately calling the black hills of south dakota home, who came to princeton to study religion and ministry and who immediately, upon graduating from from university in 1907 was sent on a mission to iran, where he became involved the events of what ultimately would be the development of the constitutional revolution and the the siege of tabriz. the book is entitled an american martyr in persia, already alluding to the movie the end of the narrative and oscar vale, who was one of the three shot through the heart and then and you know what is what is perhaps the most you know, you know, romantically poetic way to to die in 1909. so is the story of the epic life and tragic death of howard baskerville and. you know, when i first saw this book appearing, you know, this is a topic that as a professor of iranian history at princeton, you know, i've seen undergraduates write on before it's a popular topic, one in which undergrads can go to the mudd archives and do a little bit research on on a figure who many ways serves as a kind of metonymy for american iranian relations and has a kind of personal tie to to us here at princeton. when i first saw the book and like, how could you write a 300 page book on howard baskerville when you know there's barely enough material, you know, that i was aware of to fill a short encyclopedia article all or, you know, as short student paper. boy was i wrong. this is this is, you know, a an amazing book. and one of the most amazing aspects, it is the way in which it creates a world. and this is, you know, something in which there's a dual training as scholar of religion and a scholar, creative writing really shines forth. so, reza, why kind of why don't i invite you to to take us back to princeton and oh seven and the world of howard baskerville? just great. thank you. thank you very much. and thank you all for coming out here. such a joy to be here. have a very long book tour and one the stop here at princeton was one that i was looking forward for a while and it's just a great pleasure to be in front of you. wow. what was princeton like in 1907? it was a bit of an auspicious time to be here because there was this kind of educational revolution that had taken place on princeton campus only about five years before baskerville graduated. so he came here, i guess, in 1903, and in 1902, princeton university got a brand new professor, woodrow wilson and woodrow wilson, as we've all come to discover, is a very complicated man. far more complicated. and i think any of us thought on the one hand, this is a man who almost single handedly redefined internal national law. he was a globalist at a time in which that term didn't even exist yet. he helped win the first world war against european fascism. he on to create the league of nations, which is the forerunner to the united nations. his legacy, as both the president of princeton and the president of the united states is vast. he was also a despite knowable, racist and there's no way to get around the fact that this man who could speak with eloquence about the rights of human beings that democracy and freedom and popular sovereignty were god's gift to humanity, that the divine will was, that all peoples everywhere be free from tyranny, also supported the confederate cause. decades after the civil war was over, called the a of like a a sort of enshrined southern organizer in was while president of princeton university made sure princeton was the only ivy league at the time that would allow entry to black students. when asked why, his response was because would be embarrassing to them and to us. this was a man who lavished praise on, you know, the kkk and then when he became president of the united states, essentially rid all of dc of the black workforce and if that all of that weren't enough he also screen birth of the nation the white house. so a complex person and yet by far the most popular professor at princeton. he seven times was voted professor of the year and when it was time to bring on a new president. despite the fact that he had a lot of problems with the administration, with the board, he was enthusiast, made president of the university, and he enacted this educational revolution, the purpose of which we all now know is the precept morial system, right. so for some of the students, the purpose of which was to force students to get beyond just their chosen field of study, right. to to force them to take courses outside of their chosen field, to take one on one courses, to take, you know, have mentorships. it was very much of a european model of the university, which, of course, almost all major universities in the united states adopt when howard baskerville showed up as a freshman at princeton university in 1903, this was a year after wilson was the president. but he was already, as i say, the most popular professor there. he was impossible, avoid and baskerville very quickly fell into wilson's orbit during junior year he was basketball was there to get degree at a christian ministry just like his father had the plan was he would go to follow his father's footsteps princeton he would get his degree and then he would return to south dakota where like his father and his grandfather, he would just become a country pastor that was the plan. and then his junior year, he was forced. take these two electives outside of his chosen field of study and decided to take those courses with woodrow wilson himself. one course in international governance and another course in jurisprudence. and it's no exaggeration to say that these courses changed the trajectory of life. he immediately greatly glommed on to this vision that wilson had about the sort of interplay of religion and politics. the idea of democracy being a divine mandate, the importance of revolution in making sure that all peoples everywhere were free, just not black people and as a result, when he graduated in 1909 rather than obey his father and go to south dakota, he made this fateful decision to become a missionary, which was the only way that a 22 year old, you know, lower middle class white person in america could have gone and seen the world right. that's really why he wanted an adventure. and the only way he knew how to do that adventure was to apply to the presbyterian board of foreign missions. he did. he desperately wanted to go to china or japan. in fact, he wrote these a very urgent letters to robert spear, the head of the presbyterian board of foreign missions, in which he says, you know, i've really prayed about this and god, i'm certain wants me to go to china or japan. i really feel like that's where jesus is calling me. i'm sure that had nothing to do with the fact that he was reading these missionary reports, china and japan, talking about how amazing. it was how in china hundreds and hundreds of people are converting to christianity. and, you know, they said they barely have room enough in mission for the bible studies they have and how japan, this beautiful country full of beautiful little people, it looks just like the british isles. but he also understood very clearly that at that time 1909, the presbyterian church was desperately looking for people, young christians, to quote, carry the saving grace of jesus to the lost sheep of the middle east and so on. his application, where he when he was asked where he wanted to go, he wrote, china or japan and then in very small print, just above that he wrote or persia and he did not want to go to persia. i think that's the important thing to understand because. the same missionary dispatches that we're talking about how wonderful china and japan were. we're talking about how god awful persia was, this was the worst on earth as far as these missionaries were concerned. my absolute favorite line from those reports was a dispatch from, a missionary by the name of justin perkins, who wrote all the sins the decalogue are ever present among the persians. and add to those the even graver sin of sodom. this 22 year old kid is reading this and saying okay, okay, this is the last place that i want to go. but of course, it's where he gets assigned when he arrives in the northwest city of tabriz the first thing that he realizes is that everything that he had heard was wrong. he absolutely falls in love with persian culture and the persian people very in a very humorous way. he discovers persian food. yes which is quite a you know. yeah, a nebraskan i think, you know he's like used to boiled potatoes and like suddenly he's having the best in the world, if i do say so myself myself, he's assigned a teaching position, he teaches english and history at the american school, which was a missionary school there. and i mean, he becomes the woodrow wilson of the school. he's like instant, the most popular teacher there. he's also the youngest by a mile. he loves his students. the students love him. he goes horseback riding and boxing he teaches tennis. he does, you know, student races he is having the time of his life. everything that he thought persia was ends up being the exact opposite and he completely integrates himself into persian society at this very auspicious time indeed. as you say, you know, a momentous time in which he arrives in iran. those of us who are historians of iran. you know, the period in which baskerville arrives, that is the the years 1907 as being the period of the constitutional revolution, the culmination of a long, uh, development of political thought, uh, during the larger period of iranian history. orders are a dynasty that reign over, uh, iran. from the latter part, the 18th century, when they, um, you know, come to power in a, in a somewhat violent series of events. but, but quickly, you know, adopt, you know, as their, uh, uh their is on that, you know, to to modernize uh, iran to unite previously diverse sections of the country under the banner of developing iran as a nation which can hold its own in a newly in a world populated by by nation states. and it's, you know within this context of, the closures who find, you know, while not colonized like their neighbors to the east and india nevertheless, you know, the proxy by which uh, global events of global significance are being played out by the british, by the russians, uh, in particular an, and it's also during this context in which you know, young political thinkers, uh, in iran questioning the relationship of the state, an absolute monarchy to its population, ultimately culminating in a movement to establish a constitution or monarchy and a constitutive assembly, uh, that, uh, that can place certain limits on, on the absolute power of the king. and this is when, you know, baskerville shows up. yeah, right. perfect. perfect, uh, timing indeed. i'd right the, um. well, what's i think what's important to, to note about the constitutional revolution is that despite the fact that took many years to to finally in, as you say, the writing of accounts to tution, a fairly progressive docu ment that outlines the rights and privileges all citizens of the country. and this parliament that acts as a curb on the absolute of the king, is that the shah, who signs that constitution? muzaffar dies immediately after signing that constant tution and the shah that succeeds him. his 35 year old son man by the name of muhammad ali. not that muhammad ali, but the different muhammad ali. muhammad ali shah. um, who you is this prince? who been raised to believe that the country is his by birth, that the throne is his birthright, that god himself has made him shah and who is incensed with his father for having, you know, succumbed the rabble and allowed for a constitution and to turn this country from an absolute dictatorship up to something like a constitution and a monarchy, uh, very quickly declares, war on the constitutionalists. the at that point becomes essentially a civil war. he disposes of the constitution he rolls his russian made cannons to the parliament building and he destroys the building with the parliamentarians still inside and then with his russian trained, russian funded and russian armed and russian military, he very quickly gains control over the whole of the persian empire. the entirety of iran, except for tabriz and now howard baskerville, who, you know, has already gone through this kind of shock to the system. he's, you know, found out that persia is different than what he thought he was. and he's fallen in love with the people, the culture. and he's really begun to settle in, finds himself not only in the middle of a revolution, but very quickly finds himself living in what becomes the last bastion of that revolution. all this sort of constitution lists essentially fleeing behind the walls, tabriz, and that's where they make their last stand against the shah. and his russian trained troops. yeah. so tell us about, you know, what life would have been like. you know, you have this this this teacher who has who's just arrived in iran. he's teaching his first semester. he's teaching english and history. right. and and, you know, trying to, you know, you know, discover himself really his relationships with his students, his fellow teachers, you know, the principals daughter, as it were, and a bunch of other things. um, and, and at the same time, he's seeing, you know, unfolds, you know, in tehran, you know, a direct, you know, challenge to the democracy that he has thought so deeply about and college and, uh, yeah, yeah. he, she's one of five american missions is at the school. there are missionaries from europe and other parts of the world. and there are also a fairly substantial, fairly sizable number of persian professors as well. um, but he's one of five american missionaries, and he is, as i say, by far the youngest of those five and the only one not married with children. and so although he, you know, moves in to the home of the headmaster, a man by the name samuel wilson, and does fall in love with wilson's daughter, agnes wilson, the kind of a tragic love story there. we'll get to it later. he the only people who are his age, the only people that he can really hang out with are these kind of zealous young revolutionaries on the street. and he forms a particular, oddly close relationship with a prominent member of the revolution, a man by the name of hassan sharif today, who is a very important historical figure in iranian history. um hassan was a was sort of one of the chief orators of the revolution. you know, he had this unbelief verbal ability to draw a large audience and to speak with incredible eloquence about the goals and the aspirations of the constitu analysts to people who had just first started to even hear the word constitution for the first time. and he had this beautiful, flowery oration that made him extraordinarily popular amongst the, um, the constitutionalist courts in tabriz. and he and baskerville become best friends and he essentially initiates baskerville into the all of these, you know, late night coffee shop meetings where, you know, these young revolutionaries are talking about what the future iran possibly look like and, you know, should we be a republic or confederation and should we maintain, you know, a symbolic monarchy or should we get rid of it altogether? what do we do about taxation? what will be the role of the provinces how much power should the parliament have? i mean, these are converse sessions that baskerville had only read about in history books, right? and here he is having suddenly stepped into a history book, i mean, he is living out a revolution that had only heard about, you know, in in school, in classes here at princeton and as woodrow wilson's as you can imagine, this just lights a fire in his he's he's very interested in these conversation gets really kind of tied in to the revolutionary fervor in the city but he is told repeatedly by the school that he teaches by the church that sent him iran and by the us government that he is protected by that he can have nothing to do with what's happening in that it's not his business at. all he is there to teach, he is there to save souls. and when he's done with his mission, he will go back home. and you know, certainly, you know, he can sympathize with the cause you know, the rest of the missionaries weren't heartless. they fully and completely with the revolutionaries. the letters that they would write back to presbyterian board in york make it very clear that they exactly who the villain was this story that the shah was a murderous dictator and what the revolutionaries wanted was nothing more than their most basic rights. it was very clear who was right and who was wrong. but it's none of our business. that's not why we are here, and we can't have anything to do with it. and so for a good year or so, as hard it is, baskerville puts his head down and he and he does his duty, and he tries his hardest as much. he is drawn to what's going on he tries his hardest to kind of keep his distance from it as much as he can. yeah. so, i mean, so tell us about this place, tabriz, right. for who aren't familiar with iran. tabriz is in the northwest, it's in, you know, the province. so today is, you know, azerbaijan, it's the closest, you know, city to what at the time would have been the russian empire right and the ottoman empire and the ottoman empire, for that matter, as well in the west right. so, you know, you have the city that's on the border, you know, distant from the capital where the know sort of constitutional activity is is concentrated. and yet a city which remains this bastion of of constitutional power. can you just, you know, just just just paint that picture, you know? well, you know, i think we said it beautifully. like it's it's a city of like most border cities in history, especially a city like tabriz, which sit really sat smack dab in the middle of the old silk road. this was a city that was a cosmopolitan and diverse religiously, ethnically diverse. in fact, the primary language in this city wasn't even persian. it was turkish. and nasri. and there, you know, -- that had a big presence in tabriz and obviously there were a lot of christians, armenian christians in tabriz. there were behind it was a center of of the highest. there were buddhists in tabriz because of the legacy of the mongol empire, where it was a center of zorro austrian ism, i mean, and obviously islam in both its shia and sunni forms. so we're talking about a religiously ethnic, clearly diverse city full of multiple languages, which in some ways made it the ideal place for missionary work, right? because you have you have this sort of ability to to integrate yourself very easily into the culture and the the protestants. the presbyterians weren't only missionaries there. there was a catholic actually for quite some time. there was a robust mormon mission in in tabriz. so like if you were a missionary tabriz was the place where you wanted to be. but it also created a little bit of of a problem because city that that is that diverse has a hard time accepting claims of absolute truth right that it's like yeah there's like 40 religions here you know, we get it. you're fine. you're welcome. but the idea that you're only one who's right was was it's a difficult message. and i'll say one other thing that made basketball is life. a missionary somewhat difficult, which is that the christianity that howard baskerville was preaching was a very new kind of christianity. baskerville was essentially the second generation, the grandchild, you will, of what we now refer to as the second great awakening, which was a movement of protestant reform in the united states that resulted in what we nowadays would refer to as evangelical protestant christianity. and so his idea of the gospel was fairly new and unique that notion that christian christianity is just all about individual salvation. it has nothing to do with sort of communal. it is just about the endeavor and god and that all that is required for salvation literally all that is required, is that you just believe in jesus name, just accept jesus into your heart, and you are forever now, for most of us that sounds familiar because we now call that christianity but this actually a fairly new interpretation of christian entity and it was not very popular in persia even among persian christians. you know there are many indigenous christian in persia. at the time there was a there were the historians, the assyrians, the armenians and so, you know, this kind of wave of american evangelicals who showed up in tabriz used to basically tell these christian communities, most of whom dated themselves to the apostles that you're not doing it right. it's not that's not how it's supposed to go. i mean, i don't know how else to say it, but it wasn't all that successful. and then i'll say other thing, and this is this is not just unique about tabriz, but it's kind of endemic persia itself, which is that religion means something different in that part of the world. religion isn't about the doctrine. you accept, religion is about your identity. the group that you belong to. that's what religion is. it wasn't individual salvation. it was about communal identity. and most importantly it was about action, you know, persians aren't interested in hearing what you believe. they're interested in hearing what you are willing to do for that belief. and so this 22 year old kid, you know, talking about just believe in christ and everything will be fine in the middle of a revolution, no less. i've read that i can read from that time in about baskerville and i can't find a single example of a of a successful conversion that he and he tried mean. there are a lot of i've seen a lot of letters of people who have said he always had a bible on his desk he always spoke to all of his students about christ. he he went every church service even the turkish service which he couldn't even understand and but as far as i can tell, it wasn't going so well. yeah. i mean, you know, i think in this respect, you know, this story is one that resembles other, you know, princeton origin presbytery and mission schools elsewhere in the middle east, you know, the foundation of alborz high school in tehran or roberts college in turkey or, you know, university of cairo or american university of beirut. what's really, you know, unique about the story is, is the constitutional is contact. right. and, you know, one aspect of tabriz being this border city and, you know, a city, you know, is pivotal in the competition. and between, you know, the british and the russians for influence in iran is, you know, another aspect of the city that you that you describe in the book. i want to come back to these kind of religious narratives in just a minute, but which is, you know, the the the presence of, you know, of militarization in the area of looting, as you almost describe, the city of tabriz being something that's immediately legible to someone. baskerville coming from the west of america, you know, and all of a sudden seeing these guys, you know, who are armed and, you know, recognizing something in them. tabriz in 1907 looked like an old west town. i mean, i, you know, would expect john wayne to step out of saloon at any moment. that's what it look. and it its own cowboys. but in iran, those cowboys are referred to as looters and looting is a very difficult concept. but it's it's a it's a deep tradition in iran, basically a gentleman bandit like that's how you refer a was you know the law in lawless times. he was always a very, very dapper, very well-dressed. that was how you told the looters apart. you know, he wasn't sort of, you know, a peasant. he may not have known how to read, but he could spout persian poetry all day long and he always had a, you know, wonderful silk kerchief, a perfectly pressed shirt. and that revolver and the luti was sworn to the protection of women and children that that was his job. and look, i mean, the were gangsters. they were i want to make sure that we all understand that what they were but they were gentlemen gangsters and at that time. they basically ran tabriz and you know, they every neighborhood in tabriz had its own right and they would sort of they were the protection in that in that neighborhood. and there were many different neighborhoods and wards in tabriz, all of them very sort ethnically or socio economically divided and. and this actually became i like you were suggesting, a kind of a when tabriz becomes the bastion of, the revolution, because it's already got a ready made right. all these looting. and the question was, is how do we get them all to fight for one common cause? and the person who was able to do was this ledger people's commander. one of the most important people in all of persian history, a man who is still taught in every school in iran, a man by the name of khan. so derkach an was a luti you know. he was a horse thief. and an illiterate peasant, but very dapper one who had kind of made his living as a thug and it had gone in and out of prison for most of his life. but who had kind of you amended his ways and had become, you know, a business owner? he was selling horses at the time. and when sort of tabriz becomes, the center of revolution. and when they're there, the sort of clashes in these battles, taking place between those loyal the shah and those loyal to the constitution. and it's satar khan, who essentially takes it upon himself to rally people together and to fight back against the shah. he creates a true people's army with like farmers and peasants, people who have never shot a gun before, you know, like the fishmonger and he drills them. he trains them. and in a very short amount of time, create this formidable military force that managed to essentially take control for constitution over all of tabriz, push all the royalists out of the city and declares this city to be the last city under the constitution. he actually he has his his men write. these letters to the capitals of europe saying this is now the government of iran, not tehran. he's a u. super. we have a constitution. we are the government now. so if you want to deal with iran, you have to deal with us. and at first, as you can imagine, people laugh. but military victory after military victory suddenly makes him this incredibly popular figure. and there's this sort of wonderful moment where all of these, you know, american and european start pouring into tabriz because they want to write these, you know, fawning profiles of this, you know, peasant, warrior, the the george washington of iran they kept calling him, which is weird because george washington was like a rich landowning slave owner. and this guy is like a, you know, a peasant who didn't even own a rug, which is unfair, fathomable for an iranian like, what do you how do you not own a rug, but these profiles create the image of this almost divine, kind, legendary figure. and all of a sudden now this revolution has a leader you know and i think this is where the you know the book really you know opened my eyes to a new way of seeing this moment and, a new reading of baskerville life, in particular something that i think you do really poetically and really beautifully, which is to sort of, you know, to try to read how someone baskerville would have, you know, felt at this moment, given the christian and, you know, educational, you know, background that he comes with and you have this sort of beautiful parallel reading of the story of kazemi and the story of the of karbala. right. and the story of the times. you have these you know, she passion plays, which narrate the death of hossein. and you know, in which baskerville to see himself as having a role to play within you this this standoff. you know that sort of has come to a turn by this. what can you tell us about well, it takes a while. the success of satar khan makes it impossible for the shah's army, which is ten times larger and ten times more heavily armed to do what it was tasked to do, which was to defeat tabriz, to destroy this town and put an end to the last gasp of this revolution. so that becomes impossible. all and by around the beginning of 1909, the shah to change tactics. and he says, well alright, if i can't defeat tabriz then just starve it to death. and that's what he does. he takes thousands of his military, about 10,000 or so, and he encircles the city and he cuts off all access to food, he cuts off all access water, and then he just sort of sits back and wait for the population to starve. and what follows is referred to an iranian history as the siege of tabriz. and it's actually, again, one of these sort of pivotal moments in iranian history, because it was absolutely horrific humanitarian disaster. thank thousands upon thousands of men, women and children die on the streets. people were crawling on their hands and knees picking grass and alfalfa grown men were eating dung. they were boiling their shoes and their saddles in order try to get anything into them and but nevertheless, tabriz will not surrender. satar khan and his his his army. a at this point, you know, they're just too dug in. there's no there's no giving in, you know, satire. khan makes it very clear that the only way tabriz gives up is if the constitution is restored. that's the only way. so you'll have to just kill all of us. and the shah says, okay, and this horrific famine goes on for about three months or so and it's around the spring of 1909, where baskerville, who again, you know, has been having all these experience says these connections, these sympathies, but being told repeatedly to mind his own. it's at this point where he just can't take it anymore. and i think something just a light flips his in his brain and there's a sort of pivotal moment where he he goes to his classroom. it's it's you know, he's supposed to be teaching that day and he stands before his students and he says, i no longer bear to watch the suffering on the streets while i sit here and to you about the american revolution. you know, i'm teaching you this history that's actually being played out on the other side of these walls. and the hypocrisy is just too much. and so he tells his students that the only way that i know how to serve you is to quit my job and to go join the revolution. so that's what i'm going to do. and then one of these absolutely made for hollywood moments, this student stand up, join him, they leave the school and together they integrate themselves into satar khan's military, into the revolutionary military. they actually form a separate militia, an arm of the people's army army that they refer to the army of salvation. and it's led by 22 year old with his, you know, 15 and 16 year old students. and it's, as you can imagine, an incredible scandal for the i mean, this is very, very bad thing for the church. and it's an even for the united states government, everybody freaks out. yeah. and, you know, from then, you know, baskerville basically becomes this larger than life figure. he becomes a cultural. he's immediately you know, he's reported in the international already at that time. and it's, you know, in this sort of that he sort of transcends, you know, his own sort of, you know, mundane existence and becomes know a symbol, right? he becomes he becomes the lafayette, he becomes the host and he becomes the, you know, the the christ. you know, in some ways in his, uh, you know, own of metonymy, you role as, as, as a figure. and so there are so many, you know, difficulties in thinking of him in this way that come out, you know, you know, because celebrated by so many, you know, different groups and retros backed you know he can it's too easy to fall into the sort of pit of identifying him as a kind of, you know, white savior figure, a kind of, you know, good american, you know, standing up for the ideals of democracy and so on. so and so. i mean, what do you what do make of all this? and and how do you tell the story of here's the thing is that it's been 115 years and for 115 years, those few people who actually had ever heard a true howard baskerville have been trying to figure out what the hell he was doing and why. and there's just a lot of questions about this. the presbyterian mission. well, first of all, it's important to understand that. the american government had already declared in this revolution not because it had a vested interest iran. it did not the american government had no role whatsoever anywhere in the middle east. it hadn't occurred to america yet. that's all british and russian. but there there was an internal state department memo on the revolution that made it clear that there would be no support from the united states to this revolution for the simple fact that the idea of an islamic democracy is absurd. there's never been anything like a democracy in a muslim country. the exact quote was islam seems to imply autocracy, and so therefore this country can have nothing to do with what is obviously going to be a failed enterprise. and so the government actually the consul general comes to baskerville in the battlefield and basically says, this is not your fight, this is not your business. these not your people. this is not your country. you need to pack up your things and go home right away. and basketball famously says as he kind of sweeps his arms across the battlefield. and he says the only difference between me, these people is the place of my birth. and that is a very small difference. and he actually hands over his passport and gives up his american citizenship. and as. protection, the american government begs, the presbyterian church to do something about it. well, what can we can't do anything about? so they write this urgent letter to. the presbyterian board of foreign basically saying, come get your boy and the presbyterian board of foreign missions, which also recognizes the existing social crisis that baskerville, his actions has caused. i mean, you can't have your missionaries around world possibly up against the governments where they're serving. that's the end of your missionary enterprise. and so the presbyterian mission board sends this telegram to the state department that basically says, not our problem. he's not one of ours. he's, you know, we disavow him altogether. and, you know, not our problem. and so freed from these restraints, baskerville fully the revolution. and we should probably get to the last part of this story before we get to the q&a. so on april 20th, 1909, there's no more food left in the city the situation is such, as the new york times article that was published a few days earlier that basically predicts the death of maybe 10,000 people inside the city if the siege continues much longer. so it's getting a lot of international. but there's no choice but to just try to break the siege and baskerville and his student militia volunteer to be sort of the tip of the spear of that fight. and on the morning of april 20th, they tried to break through this. the shah's siege in the sort of northwestern point. it doesn't last very long. basketball gets shot in the heart as we said. but his death and the humanitarian crisis becomes such an international embarrassment, not so much for the shah, who couldn't care less, but for russians and the british who are supporting the shah, that they force the shah to declare a cease fire so that humanitarian aid could come into tabriz and the revolutionaries use that moment to break through the siege. march on tehran and bring the shah down from his throne, send him off into exile, reestablish the constitution, rebuild the house, have new elections and amongst the first actions of that new elected parliament is declare this 24 year old american christian missionary to be a hero and a martyr in the cause of iranian freedom. and he is buried in this beautiful marble tomb in tabriz is still there. there is a beautiful golden bust of him, a constitutional along with this painting and some, you know, artifacts from the war and for decades and decades and decades, baskerville was considered this hero, right? this sort of this martyrdom, the man who sacrificed himself for iranian freedom. and that's how he remained, really, the 79 revolution. and when his memory and his name kind of slowly disintegrated, i've said this a few times that it's really hard to find anyone under the age of 50 anymore in iran who knows who howard baskerville is. yeah. so it's a way to sort of segue, opening this conversation up and to bring us into the present. i mean, you know, i read this this book and, you know, immediately you know, i came to realize that, you know, the way that you tell the story of baskerville is much, i think, a way in which only you, a very few other people, you know, could have told the story because. you know, you're a person who has a background, you know, both in iran and in america. you're a person who has a background, both evangelical christianity, you know which i think is a kind of unique part of your narrative. and in islam. and so, you know, with kind of, you know, you know, experience that in some ways mirrors that of baskerville. i mean, what is it you want us to take from this? you know, for the present? i think that the biggest message i want to take from this is that basketball a good example, not the only example of, this intense connection that iranians and americans have had with each other. i'm not talking about and iran. i'm not talking about the governments. i'm talking about the people and how we share in common with each other. and i guess my is that he can serve as a kind of bridge. you know, right now, especially when we're seeing women and children in iran who are remarkably asking for the exact same rights that baskerville and his students died for 115 years ago. and that is depressing for sure. but i also think that it is important to remember that just like basketball saw people beyond the color of skin or their nationality or their religion, they saw them as humans who had aspirations. and he was willing, in his case, die to help them achieve those aspirations. we in america also have a responsibility when we see not just iranians, the streets begging for rights that we all take for granted, but anyone anywhere in the world does this amazing moment at the height of this revolution, when satire can sends out this national manifesto to all the capitals of europe, in which he says to lovers of humanity, if you open the heart, a japanese, won't it? just like the heart of a persian, if you open the heart of an englishman or of a russian, won't it all look the same? we are begging you for? so can you please put aside the bigotry of creed and the prejudice of nationality, and give us your. and i think that that message is as important now as it was back then. all i couldn't say that better. so let's you know, now. speaking. thank you so much. i think we have time for one or two questions. does okay. first of all you're brilliant. secondly i just wanted to ask a question like when you write a book, you write for a reason. for example, you know, god, but god to like contextualize islam in the west and also in islamic countries. and i was just wondering what you said just just now was that the reason for you writing it or was there another reason as to why you wrote this book? i really appreciate you saying that because. yeah, my friends who know me when i tell i'm writing the story. they all said the same thing. why? what do you up to? what's going on. one of those reasons is what i said is to remind us of what we all have in common, each other, and the responsibility that we all have to people who are suffering anywhere in the world. and this idea, like just because we're of the different nationality, that that somehow makes us different is absurd. but i will say that i did have this other reason while i writing it, because i was writing it, you know, in 2019 and in 2020, 2021. not a great time in. america and i did want to make a point about the fact that nowadays, if you start talking about denmark or for that matter, the promotion of democracy, you're bound to get laughed out of the room. we're not all that fond of democracy here in america anymore. two thirds of americans say that our democracy is on the verge of collapse. two thirds of americans. you know what that says to me? one third of americans aren't paying attention. that's what that says to me. we are at a place right now where we are fashionably talking about autocracy as a real option, where religious fascism is suddenly de rigueur. i remember a time in, you know, if you were a christian nationalist, you kind of kept it to yourself or you used coded like, we need to apply the principles of the bible upon our land. the moral code, christianity. and now, no, those same people are saying, no, no, no, no, no, this is a christian country. we need just for christians and we're going to enforce christian morality upon whether they like it or not. so i think going back to this moment where this young, naive, somewhat idealistic kid was willing to die so that other people, not his own people, not his own country. right. so that some other country, 10,000 kilometers away from him could have the same democracy that he had. i mean, we might, you know, find that to be quaint and even silly and a bit naive, perhaps. but i do think that it is something that we should all remember, at the very least, at time where democracy is absolutely under threat, not just around the world, but here in the united states. so, yeah, i was trying to cause a little bit of trouble. okay. we'll take one more question. sorry, but i. oh, thanks a. excellent talk, as always. uh, enjoyed your entertaining introduction and being that same neck of the woods as. as a satyagraha on that you mentioned. yes, i do speak a little azeri. uh i couldn't help but, uh, think of another story that resonates with howard baskerville initial plans to go to japan and then china, and instead wind up in, in tabriz. the story of one doctor, samuel jordan, also from princeton, who went to iran and, and, uh, totally modernized our secondary education and the process also did not convert to many mosques. yes. to his faith. have you ever studied his life story and? what parallels do you see? what other powers that just mentioned? one. well, yeah, no i have i have studied jordan. and by the way, i should mention that of those five of mission american missionaries at the american memorial school in tabriz, all five graduate from princeton. princeton was like the basically factory. it was just like, you know, just churning, you know, one protestant missionary after another that was like the whole point of this universe city back then. and fact, it wasn't, by the way, just not in tabriz. the persia mission included a number different cities and the vast, vast majority of those missionaries. those were all from princeton. and in fact, the american consul that i was just referring to, the man who had the the duty to go and try to tuck baskets all out of this was a princeton man. they were all princeton men. it all just started here. but i do think, again, the the the most important parallel here, it has to do with the missionary enterprise to begin with. and it goes little bit along the lines of what you were kind of hinting at about this notion of you know, people do refer to baskerville as a bit of a white savior and missionary is almost what quite literally white savior ism, right? i mean, that's that's the army of salvation is the whole point of it. exactly, yeah. but i do think what i want to make one important point because in many very crucial ways, baskervilles life is the antithesis of the white savior narrative. it's when we talk about the white savior narrative, what we are talking about is a white man of privilege, a white person privilege. pardon me, who takes part in small acts of charity, usually without necessarily giving any agency to the people that he or she is to serve. often bothering to even realize, let alone address the underlying causes that have led to the humanitarian crisis that you are there. you know, to to save or fix. and usually does so whether they are willing to admit it or not in order to satisfy some kind of emotional expense. arians that really ends up doing nothing more than just validating their own privilege so that they can go home see opposite of what howard baskerville did when he got there. yeah, he went there as a white savior. and then very quickly was able to say what, do the people that i'm trying to serve, they don't need another teacher and they certainly don't need another preacher. but they are begging for americans to join this cause so that it gets attention. that's what i will do. he's basically, you know, the rest of the missionaries, as i said at the school, were sympathized. they were there to help people. they they had they built hospitals so they could heal the wounded. they'd got whatever food they could to feed the hungry. they did whatever they could to a meal, narrate the suffering of the people. baskerville understood. that's putting a band-aid on a wound, that there is a systemic problem here. it's not starvation. it's the person starving them. and so rather than try to feed the people, i'm going to go and i'm going to fight the person who is starving them to begin with. he understood the systemic issue at hand and fought that were not the symptom of that issue and then most importantly at that moment when he was given the opportunity to use his privilege to protect himself. he readily surrendered that privilege he handed over his passport and said okay i guess i'm not under this protection anymore any longer. very famously said the words, i am purge as in fact that's the calligraphy on the cover of the book. and i let it on him. i am purges so in a way, if you know if you want to talk about the white savior story, this is the antidote to the white savior story. and that for all the other reasons should say is i said before, is why i think that this is a person whose name needs to be known. and and that's what i'm trying to do with this book. thank you so much. please join me in thanking mr. aslan and mr. sheffield's. welcome, everyone. i'm so happy you're here tonight. it should be a really exciting evening with -- morris. now i'm going to going to give you a little intro, a little bit about -- and some things you probably don't even know about him. he's very special. we are thrilled tonight to have the number one new york times bestselling author -- morris, who is one of the most prominent and political consultants in the united states. he was instrumental in winning campaigns of bill clinton in 1996 and more than 30 senators and governors is nationally. that i could spend probably an entire evening on the list of people that he has put in office. but i don't think you want to hear that tonight. in 2021, -- morris launched a weekly half hour show on newsmax tv called -- morris. democracy. he is also a regular guest on newsmax shows such as american agenda. greg kelly reports. and spicer and company. in 2021. -- morris also launched a one hour radio program on w abc in new york city aired from noon to 1 p.m. on sunday. -- now writes a weekly column for the new york post that is carried nationwide and contributes columns and blogs to both the print and online versions of the hill. a nonpartisan daily newspaper based in washington, dc. this man does an awful lot since 2006 teen -- morris has been a behind the scenes adviser to donald trump. -- played a key role in trump's surprise 2016 win. he did. he did. donald newkirk is one of the top political strategist in the world. in return, the book that -- just wrote and why we're here tonight. -- -- latest bestseller is a fantastic political analysis of what very well may be taking place in the not too distant future. can you guess what that might be? and now i'd like to introduce one of the most special people in the united states today, the greatest commentator and adviser to the most important people in the world, -- morris. thank you. so, you normally have time for tv because what's it like on the set of the program? i don't know. even a week old, right? okay. oh, so it makes your. okay. okay, good. thank you. well, thank you very much for coming. i think this is about my, what, ten appearance here? i mean, see, i've written 20 books and i wouldn't miss you for the world. so probably 20. well, i hope you all are prepared. not for a tidal wave, not for an earthquake, not pursue nami. but you remember in your history when a meteorite hit the earth and it picked up all the dirt and the dust and the dinosaurs couldn't breathe and they all died. that's what's going to happen on tuesday. the magnitude of the republic victory that i'm expected to happen a week from tuesday is beyond belief and it's only unfold long now when you have a trend election that is a party trend. it takes time to take shape and it's like a pitcher who throws a curve ball coming out of his hand. it's curved in a little bit. but by the time it reaches the plate, it's breaking a foot or two feet. and the magnets theory of this victory is only becoming clear to us now. i'm all smug, excited, addicted, all in my book, the return. but it was outrageous when i did it. but now it's coming. more or less true. just to start with the bottom line, i believe we're going to pick up more than 50 seats in the house. and i think the senate will end up

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