others in the nfl. i mean, they answer my phone calls. they answer my questions. sometimes it's on the record. .. my phone calls, the answer my questions. sometimes it's on the record, sometimes it's on background. billy being in major league baseball is communicative, he's a vice president with the league soi have a great relationship .i think because i have, and jim byzantine my business partner, we demonstrated fairness, that were going to say when we think you misstep and when we think you got wrong . when we think you got it right, were going to say that to and i hear from people that they respect that we are honest a >> host: young talk flint be interviews you have done with players. are the players open to talking with you? >> guest: i talk in book about going to in the nfl players association event and a representative of the nfl pa, having a problem with me askingf gay questions of their new players. back three or four years ago. there have been a couple who did not want to talk to me for sure, but curt warner is a devout, devaulted christian, god is the most important thing in his life, and he and his wife stopped and chatted with me for a newspapers about the issue ins, very openly.an most athletes get it. it's about your teammates teammd about sports and winning together, and not about who you sleep with. >> host: how lgpd athlete ares are claiming their rightful place in sports. thank you being on booktv. croc. >> today not only die get to talk to a really great author about her new book "ray and joan" and author of radio shackry law, but lisa napoli and guy way back to the '80s when we worked together as a tv station in north carolina. so we're connecting now with me asking the questions of her, which might make he slightly nervous, exempt i know she knows the answers that i am going to ask her today. because she researched this book for five years. welcome, lisa. >> guest: thank you so much. >> host: her first book, was ray radio shangry law. they have a gns. >> guest: gros national happiness. >> host: so we're happy we're here today to talk you new book, "ray and zone" and we mean ray kroc, and this third and final wife, his widow, and the story is so compelling and so many ways that i think we need to go back to the beginning a little heat bur mcdonald's is huge. it's ubiquitous, it's everywhere, but that modest beginnings in a little town in california, with a couple of brothers. we you started rae searching that took you where. >> guest: took me to san bernardino, california, which is smallish up to, small back then. and it was two two brothers 0 came from new hampshire to get out of the weather in new new hampshire, to california in 20s, and want toy maker their way in movie industry, like people did. the early days. the talkies, dick and mac macdonalds and made their way next and they found out it's hard to make until the movie industry so they wound up starting an orange juice and hot dog stand. and that orange juice and hot dog stand led them to open a rib restaurant, and then they decided that they were having a hard time, if anyone remembers the era of car hops. car hops were unreliable, didn't show up for work, they would serve you to your car. this is at time in america when people were just falling in love with the car. suburbs were being built, roads being built for the first time. and the brothers had a hard time employing dishwashers and car hops who attracted bows and meant shenanigans in the parking lot, glasses broken. so it was a price where proposition and ribs were hard to make. so they shut down and decided to pare down their menu too hamburgers and milk shakes and french fries. a terrific formula for makerring the french fries, and at first people in san bernardino, where they moved their restaurant, were very up set because they liked this car hop service, butt it didn't take very long before people fell in love with the expeditious service, the speedy service, they called it, and the good food, and it was cheap food, too. 15-cents a hamburger. a whole meal for 45 'cents, shake and fries. f so, yeah, that where is mcdonald's began in the desert of california. >> host: they were the mcdonald brothers, right, dick and mac. >> guest: yes, big mac maybe? >> guest: i chronically, no. >> host: okay. >> guest: it's too bad. >> host: okay so that was the very beginning, and it became quite popular.fi they became sort of wealthy from that day. >> guest: yeah. they were working as hard as anybody who works in the restaurant business does, which is very. they each split the shift. they felt really lucky because they were able to buy newew cadillacs everyaire. their idea of success. able to upgrade their cadillac. one was married, neither had kid. they lived together in a house they bought up on a hill andid just happy. the worked hard but happy with what they were making $100,000 a year profit, and it was -- lifee $100 was good. >> host: that in the early 507s a lot of modify. >> guest: lots. >> host: so they were doing something right.t then other people started becoming interested so they did do some franchising, didn't they. >> guest: so a trade magazine wrote about the speedy system they had. the put the hamburger on the ha assembly line, figured out how to move the production of food very quickly out to you, the customer, as fast as -- i think it was in under ten second if you placed an order. really, really quick. so, putting putting the hamburge assembly line was great, and other people across america were opening hamburger stands, looking to be small business people, entrepreneurial, businessmen and san bernardino became mecca. people would flock the and stand outside dish left out an important detail which is the first mcdonald's was in glass so you could see in the restaurant which now we see it all the time burden then what revolutionary. so what was so exciting was all these people would show up and want to steal the idea for this mcdonald's and the would sketch, and dick and mac saw a these people sketching and realitiesed we could sell this formula. so the put it in a manual and sold the idea and theeven really want to sell the name. to. the that was -- didn't make any sense. why use mcdonald's on your restaurant. but the dade. people did. and for $950 fee, you got to buy the minutes for mcdonald's, which include -- the blueprints for mcdonald's, including the arches, which is. >> host: what a bargain. that was the beginnings then. thenow hard other mcdonald's popping up. but they were more below what they were doing in san bernardino. they were happy.y. >> guest: hey had other offers from people wouldn'ted to go national. nate knew holiday hard they were working but didn't want to go state to state, and slogging around. they were doing just fine. >> host: okay so geographically let's move over to the midwest talk whatnot named ray kroc, can do hit own thing at the time but was an entrepreneur. a hard-charging sales guy, and now you'll bring him into the picture. who was ray kroc. >> guest: ray kroc was a hale fellow well mitt, old guard salesman. he had been selling paper cups since he was a young man. he then in that work found the multimixer, this multispin spindle milk shake maker that allowed you to do six and five at a time which was revolutioner in technology, just as the person cup was, and he just loved being on the road. he loved the ethos of the sale he liked to figure out what it was that made you want what he was selling. and he was just a larger than life personality. and so. >> host: with this milkshake machine he encountered the brothers. hi is out sell his milkshake machine and hears about this mcdonald's operation in california. so he goals there and what do you think happened when ray kroc met the brothers? you know. >> guest: the mcdonald's brothers knew him has mr. multimixer, and they bought many multimixers and ray was intrigued by whoa why would one little store need so many multimixer machines. and so he went there to say hello. they were happy to meet him because, you know, he sold them a very important piece of equipment that helped their business. they could bank milkshakes until you came up and needed a vanilla. it was out right away. so that was very helpful to their system. and they met ray, and ray was dazzled. he describes is in his auto biologigrapher, only describing it as fall thing love. the system was so perfect to himself heed seep a lot of drug store counters and restaurants, and this system was to beautiful, he also really fell in love with the -- not just the efficiency but the cleanliness. he was a neat freak and he was very happy to see this, and hi wanted to figure out how to propagate it across the land because, in his mind, the more mcdonald's, the more multispin eled milk shake michigans would be sold. >> host: so started with milkshakes for me. so if the meets that's mcdonald's brothers sells the mick sheikh machines -- milkshake machines. how dihe decide to make it big. >> guest: when hi first laid eyes on the mcdonald's operation, all the other people were stretching and trying to figure out how to rip off the idea or mow politely, emulate it, mimic is, but ray decide head didn't want to steal it. he wanted to help sell it so that night he went for dinnero with them and said, please let me franchise, and they had begun franchising. they had a franchise agent working on their behalf who became ill not long after ray entered the picture, and the stars aligned, and they basically they said, yeah, if you want to do it no skin off our backs. go laid. so he started doing it. >> host: he started franchise it. that held hill -- his first franchise ohming. >> guest: was the desdes plaines, illinois,. >> host: they consider that the first opening of a monday monday -- mcdonald's in a united states. >> guest: it looks like a museum. just like it did in the oldng days. >> host: that is the original ray croc store. was he successful after that?usa we was. we wasn't opening them as quickly as you would think but that's because other people were opening their open hamburger stand, but he -- it was hard. it's hard to sell something like that. hard to sell the formula but he was doing okay, and he was couple of years in when he went to st. paul, minnesota, which is where our story takes a turn for the romantic. >> host: so, now we start to get into the ray ask joan part here. okay. so, let's back up a little bit and tell us about who joan is before she made ray kroc. >> guest: openwas 25 years older, and ray was 52. joan was a young mother, beautiful blonde woman and the was a very, very skilled pea llanes and ore gappist, and back in the day -- ore gappist, and in the day that was a valued profession. people would play in arrests, which she do in restaurants, she played on local television. she was so beautiful that the local tv owner hired her to play music in the breaks in between shows because that was before videotape. and she also had a really good concern going, selling -- i'm sorry -- selling lessons, music lessons to kids. so she was really working very hard with three jobs but the afternoon she loved was at the criterion restaurant. >> host: the played the.e. >> guest: she played eorgan in the dining room, on a pedestal and then after dinner hours should would go to the lounge where she played piano. >> host: now take us back toan that evening and keep in mind, ray is married, child at home. >> yes. she is out of the house. >> host: and then joan is married with a child at home, i believe. >> guest: yes. >> host: now she is doing her thing at the cite criterion, playing the people, and ray walks in. >> guest: ray had been selling for two years, in 1957, he was there to sell the owner of the fraughter a franchise. he asked ray -- he never bought the milkshake machine mixer because he hatt had an elegant restaurant but he knew ray, and ray came in for a dinner meeting and he was way layed by this's beautiful woman playing the organ, and he was attracted to her youthful good looks but he was himself a pianist. the made money that way and loved playing piano. so he was taken by not just her look us but her technical musical proficiency. that was very intoxicating their for him. >> host: now, that meet, did they actually meet? did he get introduced or how did that happen? >> guest: best i can tell fromin talking with people and also from what ray says in his auto biography which you take a couple grains of assault. he demanded to meet her and said hello. but the extent of the conversation was -- never been completely clear, even joan's daughter hasn't -- she was there that night, too. her father came with her to pick joan up to take her home after work but it's not entirely clear the depth of the conversation, but what happenings next suggests there might might have been more to it than just this quick interaction, which is that joan's boss, jinx bought a franchise, opening store number 93 in st. louis park and hired joan's husband to manage it. >> host: wow. so there's a spark that night but a while before it's officially ray and joan, even though lives may have been on separate paths but continued to connect. >> guest: right. >> host: give us an idea what happened. >> guest: it's porn to opinion out in 1957 -- important to point out that in 19 57, mcdonald's was not successful for the corporation. for the people who opened franchises it was very lucrative and they were paying 1.9% it to the mcdonald's -- royalty to the monday monday corporation have of which was going the mcdonald brothers and that wasn't enough to deep corporation agreeing and helping corporate employs d police the standards from star to store. so ray was under a lot of pressure because he was growing the company and hiring peopleo who were very helpful to him. in fact in several cases they were enormously helpful. they helped save the business. but it was a difficult time because other people were starting to franchise, too. monday monday had not invent -- mcdonald's had not invented franchise, they came up with a form formula. but the stores were doing greatt and mcdonald's was becoming a family known brand. they were investing in advertising local pit operators understand the power of advertising about the corporation was an a perilous head to bankruptcy.. >> host: with nat in consideration what happens to get the relationship now between openand ray, who obviously felt something that night back in 1957, but it would be seven more years before they got married. so we need to fill in the gap. >> guest: so, joan luz was so good at managing this mcdonald's in st. louis, pack, minnesota, that he got a large bonus, $10,000 bonus, which was an incredible sum of money, and he took that money and plowed it back into his own mcdonald's, a at that time people -- we'll get to this as it relates to this bull place -- that time to open mcdonald's is like a news business, you had to go where the opportunity was, and joan and her husband were developed they have two choices of where to good if they wanted to open their own frap chits, and one was in allentown, pennsylvania, and the other was in rapid city, south dakota. and because raleigh was originally from that part of the world, they chose rapid city, south dakota. so, off joan and rollie and their young daughter moved to rapid ski with extremely little money in their pockets pockets t grand ambitions if they were able to hope this mcdonald's, member they're financially finances would be on better footing themselves and that exactly what they did. so joan at that point women were night loued to work in mcdonald's, that was part of the edict from the mcdonald's brothers. not just ray. but wifes were expected to help their husbands and so open, when they god to rapid city, oversaw the construction of the set of golden arches on main street and started ordering the stock because all the food came local low. all sourced locally. it wasn't hauled in on a truck because ray was very committed to keeping the food local and the standards that could be kept up. so. >> host: sew heed licenses in south dakota where joan is working behind the scenes and doing a lot of really important things that at the time a lot of women did that and maybe just didn't all the credit for. but she clearly had some sense for business. >> guest: correct. oh, yes. she was very shrewd and not afraid. >> host: so, hough did they cross paths again? take us to the point -- i believe there -- ray crock was married three times so there'src another wife between when he and joan get married and i'm sure that has its open level of intrigue. so they diverge again before they come together. >> guest: at that moment in time in the '60s they were both very committed to mcdonald's from different perspectives. joan through her husband, roll 'llie, and the other franchises and then ray building this huge company with -- it's c important to pine out a man named harry sonnen boring who was key in coming up with the formula of getting mcdonald's on the footing which is to own the underlying real estate of the mcdonald's. he was a real business minded person who was going into different communitying and helping convince people who opened the land -- it's hard to imagine just off blank the landscape was then because it is different than now. so these of people had parcels of land in places where there was little always going on. so hari went in and-- -- hair harry went in and brokered deals and built the mcdonald's and ray was the hamburger guy and harry was the finance guy. but joan was helping her husband but they continued to be involved with each other and i thinked had to do with one of harry's early hires who was a pilot who owned a little cessna, and ray and hairy and june martin know who was integral. lived in -- i won't get too farred ahead. the early mcdonald's core team would florida over the united states and identified parcels of land but ray was stopping in rapid city and joan was seeing him somewhere. and so a relationship -- >> host: a relationship evolved. he was desperate to marry her. she almost married him in 1961. she didn't. he married someone else. he divorced his first wife, married something else. not give away the entire story but in 1965 when mcdonald's went public and ray became enormously wealthy as did people close to him, that is when he was married to his second wife. so join was still in rapid city when ray hit life's lotto during the ipo of mcdonald's and became instantly worth something like $33 million on paper. >> host: which is human in that time. >> guest: really huge. >> host: we'll race forward then you have to read the book from 1965 to 1969. which is a critical year, the year they finally get married, correct? >> guest: yes. >> host: what crimed of wedding was until they're both divorced and did they have the big wedding or at small thing or -- >> guest: no, very quick and small and at the j & r, double a arch ranch which is would ranch property ray bought right after the struck it rich in 1965 inn part because was extremely wealthy and this is a beautiful piece of property and that is where he headquartered what became known as the kroc foundation. so i was a rumpus room for the mcdonald's folks and a reed for ray and jane immigration his second life, but when he divorced jane, his second wife, order to mary openit wog convened convenient the play was called j & r ranch. >> guest: in the central coast, if nip has been there, it's sort of a closer to l.a. version of napa and sonoma veils. quite vessel. it was cattle country, and ray and his second wife lived in beverly hills so the was an easy weekend retreat. >> host: so the gate married in 1969. family marries -- finally marries this woman who had been interested in for years. what is as idyllicas perhaps they thought it would be, havind waited so long. >> guest: it was for ray because ray felt he was complete. he had everything. mcdonald's had done well, beyond his wildest imagination. he was a celebrated businessmane at a time -- now we have celebrity ceos and they're a dime a dozen. still interesting. back then a ceo would be so media savvy and friendly, very up usual and he was a perfect horatio algier story, milkshake machine salesman becomes multi, multimillionaire, selling hamburgers.. a fantastic story. because there are lot of people who are dubious about this business sustaining. didn't seem to make any sense. now it's been so obvious to usto back in the 60s wall street was very dismisssive of this idea until the stock went public and kept going crazy as overthe years but he was extremely happy, ray was, and they landed in chicago, which is where he had startedded his -- where he lived his whole i life but joan discovered hey was a difficult and tell paucity's woman and recognized that ray had a serious problem with drinking and it was only two years after they married that she threatened or did file for divorce. and then almost as quickly as she filed for divorce, she decided to stay in the marriage, and that is where her core sense of philanthropy began because in stead of staying in marriage and just being what she could have been, which was the much wronger spouse of this extremely wealthy man and spending money onh baubles, she decided to start a charity, which she called operation cork, which is kroc spell backwards and it was to help families who had people who drank. it was a tomorrow that people didn't talk about that. betty ford had not come out.t. the fact that joan was so moved by her experiences with al-anon, which some may know is the sort of core companion to aa, which of course helps people who do drink. that had been around and that was enormously successful but in the '70s a number of people were working to figure out ways to morph aa for other purposes as well as to address the larger issues which is how the familyly was impacted, and joan was front and center at that. she used the slice of the money that rare earmarked for charity and she would convene people at the spectacular ranch, where she married ray in 1969, and brought together the great minds who were thinking about that and egg for figure out ways to develop this knew systems. what i love is that she didn't just do that, which would have been terrific enough. she was very active in creating media. so, all these years she'd 'seen monday -- mcdonald's grow and grow thanks to the media. they're terrific marylanders --k marylanders it today and joan borrowed for that for her work and made novemberrys.. she produced a play. she produced a series of public service announcements using the best animator at the time. and the published the books and got dear abbiey to write a ham flit and they were deluge with her request. it was clear they touched a nerve a it's so exciting this woman with a high school education, was able to do such for for middable work. >> host: what did ray think about that? >> guest: funny enough, ray -- while he didn't seem to think he had a problem with drinking, he loved what open -- what joan was doing. the people around ray werner obvious because they didn't want joan talking about ray. most of. the didn't believe that ray had an issue. this is a time that the idea that somebody who was super successful has any sort of problem, was unthinkable. now we hear about it in the news so much. there's nothing unusual and rarely is it even untoward that someone has an addiction problem. they go, get it taken care of andy, i things are okay but in '0 saturday that was not even fathomable. so ray was cool with and it in fact ray would hang out at the ranch when these meetings occurred with all these addictionollists that were called, which is a quaint tomorrow from back then, and they'd come and meet and ray would be there in his robe, smoke appearing cigarette, and having a cocktail, and just chiming in on the conversation. and he was concerned and he was happy for her. he was concerned about the bigger issue. there's -- the bigger issue. that's right a whole chapter in the book about their relationship with dartmouth that has to do with dartmouth competing to be money from ray for the business school and joan rerouted that for a medical program which continued recently. >> host: what was their life like together. the had his and he is growing this empire, and she is doing this. but what was there life like together? sunny was larger than life. like both of their personalities. they had crazy, crazy sums of money that they used the way people who are enormously rich do and should. they bought and incredible real estate. she had incredible baubles. at one point ray bought a baseball team just he hard because the he heard the san diego padres were in trouble and he swooped down and plunk edwin 10 minimum to buy the baseball team. and but is tempestuous and people around them were in the difficult position of refereeing them. they would have other fight right there. so, there was no boundaries with them -- joan's daughter described them as liz taylor and dick burton, very tempestuous and volatile. it had this veneer of glamor because they were running around in chicago and in then 70s as the toast of the town and then in san diego when they moved there because of the team. >> host: i'm thinking they ran with famous people at that time who were the company they kept? >> guest: they want to have tony bennet come to a party. the liked to invite tony to play piano. why not? b >> host: the plane ferried -- she was a human animal love so the plane would often ferry dog they needed to go for vet appointments. they -- baseball players were a big part of their life. once ray bought in to the team. joan really became friendly with some extremely formidable man after ray died, like mr. rogersf was a very close friend of hers, fred rogers, father ted of notre dame, mercedes mccambridge, the actress, but they had a -- lived this larger than life, very guildded life. they're apartment on lake shore drive in chicago was apparently extremely opulent and the first thing they did when they redesigned it was to make sure there was an organ built into the wall and then a piano, too. so they were very big into parties parties and glamorous parties. >> host: we want to talk about openand her philanthropy and i want to leave time for a questions. ray krok died in '84 and leaves behind how much money. and l >> guest: about $500 million. >> host: that's half a bundle dollars,. >> guest: yes. >> host: and in that day and age that would be the equivalent of say what today? at least three or four timed that much. >> guest: somebody told me and o can't remember -- it's a lot. >> host: she is living that lifestyle him passes away. and at what point did we know she was going to turn into the philanthropist. >> guest: there was a stirring with the operation cork. and joan exited her power over the kroc foundation which ray hired his brother to run. his brother was ave search scientist, complete live different from ray but he had been giving money away with the cork funk to research that was not distinguishable from most mere mortals. he was convening kind scientists and join was annoyed by that and join -- especially where this dartmouth period there they were trying to give donations to this school which hey nod no connection with. she just seemed very interested in the idea of philanthropy, and it was when he died, almost immediately, the money was transferred right before he diei into the joan b. kroc foundation and literally the week he passed away, in early -- in january 1984, she was making donations to local charities in san diego. really took a turn and what made my really fall in love with openwas in july of '84 a man walked into a mcdonald's in san csidro not farm from ray and joan has been living and it was the worst mass murder in our history at that time. >> host: at that tile. >> guest: and joan immediately stepped forward -- the largest single share holder in mcdonald's at that point at ray's department and she stepped forward and pledged $100,000 of her own money to start a victims fund, and had a news conference, didn't call mcdonald's, didn't talk to anybody. just came forward and she wasn't a public person. if you were in the addiction movement you might have known about her because of the work she did, but she stepped forward as the widow of the founding chairman of mcdonald's, pledged this money, and very controversially said she had such enormous compassion for the widow of the gunman and her two children the first payout would go to them. and the community went wild because at first they went wild that this woman was so been never lent and then many people went wild with the idea that the compassion was extended toward the man who perpetrated this violence. but i think that said a lot about joan and joan even went so far as to good meet this woman,n to console her. i think that says a lot about her, that she was able at that time, when she keefe ha beenth most concerned about this family business, that she was not in crisis management for the family business but was concerned about this woman who whose life was rupeed. >> host: that was the first of -- well, they found -- sound relative the small today dis -- the donations the into make that seemed inexplicable. seemed to be no rhyme or reason or pattern to the giving. tell us about that and how people would benefit from her largest. when i told my agent about the book he said that's boring. said, no, no, this isn't a typical philanthropist and there's nothing wrong with people who write big checks to help people. but joan would so is different, so un -- unorthodox and just as ray bought the san diego padres as a result of a news article andown was a news junky and she would here ha store and read a story and call up and all of a sudden give a ton of money or meet someone ton a play. the first free-standing hospice in san diego began because she met a woman on a plane who was a doctor, who was her age, and joan was to taken by this whom woman who had this education and wanted to start a free standing hospice in san diego back again when now we take hospice for granted. it was new and joan loved this woman and the next day she got a check from joan and joan worked very hard to make sure that the land was secured so that this hospice was built. and time and time again, that is how she gave money. >> host: flood victims in right-hand -- rapid city, south dakota. >> guest: in thed 70s there was a huge glad and in 1997 there was a devastating flood in north dakota and she would see the major mayor, just been elected and was on tv every night discussing the terrible state of the area on television every night, and joan was so moved by that, that she had her friend, the former mayor, maureen o'connor, fly in to grand forks with a change for $20 million,fl and the can be was -- the condition was it go asn immediately as possible to flood victims to offer them relief ant her name be kept out of it. she didn't reel realize somebody would tell -- trace the number on her check and found out. >> host: of course i want to be sure we have time for questions. we go get to the big donations that set apart and still do. >> guest: ey, i as a public radio reporter has always heard about joan iraq and the gift of $225 million. which again was not whimsical but because she related to the men president of npr as it was they she was captivity avoideded by in the mission and people are. joan understood the power and value of media to a free democracy. but what i didn't know until i started researching this book they gave -- she gave a gift that was ten times larger to the salvation army, also posthumously, to build recreation centers in poor neighborhoods around the country. she built one before she died in san diego, at the cost of $80 million and it was so beautiful and so transformative for the neighborhood that that is where she left the lion's share of her fortune when the t died and the salvation army wasn't equipped to do this. a very difficult gift for.pe the because they weren't in the business of building world class recreation centers but they prayed and decided to accept the money. >> host: that amount was? >> guest: i think -- close to $2 billion. >> host: wow. amazing sum, even by today's standards. >> guest: the largest gift ever, i think jive you had to sum up joan and the way you feel about her having spent so much time studying her, talking to the family and people who knew her, what would you say your biggest impression is and was about her. >> guest: you know, she lived life to the fullest. and even when she was diagnosis evidence with a terminal illness and her family was devastated, she said i've lived an amazingen life, and i don't know -- i'm sure everyone here has the same feeling, how do i give my life meaning and how die -- especially as you get older, how do you feel like you're useful in the world, and joan was use inflame so many different ways, grand and small, and while most of us don't have that kind of resource, what i love is that she was just so big in everything she did. the way she gambled. she smoked a lot. she bought incredible jewels which which she gave away and also had the biggest heart. think those are the things that stick with me. is that she was not afraid. she was unafraid. or at least if she was, doesn't seem like anybody around her knew it. and i find that -- those are qualities that i hope to mimic in my own life, especially as i get older and the story of her almost defying her husband. she did a lot of things that maybe her husband would not have been so excited about. the gifts were not things he necessarily would have supported and i don't think she did that to annoy him. think she just walkedel worked from the heart and compassion and what better story can there be. she. w >> host: she lived life. >> guest: she live life. >> host: i think we all know a lot more about ray and joan kroc before we walked in here. thank you. [applause] >> i know now some of you have questions and might need to fill in the gaps here, or just have something you would like to ask lisa. who would like to go first? raise your hand -- we'll call on you. don't by shy now. we're all friends here. right here. and please speak up. >> host: my wife and i grew up in the mid west and in chicago and so fascinating the story, and we appreciate the two of you bridging it out. do you think a lot of foundations with marijuana becoming such a mainstream concept, do you think a lot of foundations will get involved in people like al-anon at the back end of that whole thing? >> guest: that's really interesting.no ide have no idea if live in cars and adjust legalized marijuana. joan was aware of and became friendly with betty ford, and she was also an early supporter of hazelton, which you may know is headquartered in -- outside of minneapolis and those twots forces have you've nighted in recent years and thering by pavilions in each place that were support by john. i can only imagine that's unfortunately a being business to be involved in right now, and will only get bigger. >> host: so we point out the oxford exchange desk? if do you don't mind standing, blake and his sister are here today. and they are -- [applause] >> host: they are the grandchildren of fritz kasper to started the mcdonald's here in the bay area this very fer mcdonald's is still here at 3515 south -- i think i get to address right and it was also blake and allison who -- their company built this amazing building called the oxford exchanges, place that mcdonald's built, and it's quite different in that it's a book store, coffee, tea, lunch, and you walk in here and just leave your cares at the door. >> guest: so beautiful that people get married here. it's spectacular. a palace. i'm mere more beautiful i thought when i okay. ooh i was greetful about the -- when i got this invitation i learned so many cascading effects of mcdonald's in different places and this certainly is a shining -- there's not like it. i've never been -- east been in hundreds of book stores and never seen anything like this before. >> host: can the she likes it. did the two of you -- this confidence bring any questions for blake, perhaps? >> maybe unmartinmartin -- june martino. >> guest: before mcdonald's came along, ray had a woman who was his gal friday -- i don'tan think anybody calls themselves that before -- so unmarry martino was his -- she was a larger than life permith personality. she fearless. she was bad financial shape when she was hired and he hired her on she not and she was with him for years and year and the gave him the first hundred bucks when he went to incorporate mcdonald's as a core business, separate from the franchising that the brothers had. so, she was so instrumental that he gave her 10% of mcdonald's stock, and when mcdonald's went become in 1965, she became -- i thick what five or six million dollars o. pain and a lot was wherein -- she was it of elevate ited to treasurer, she was such an executive in a corporation and was so incredibly wealthy. but what i lot of about her is -- that was incredibly unusual. she was -- she wore turn temperature bans and was elegant and believed in mystical things but when ray and harry, the fell low i described who came up with the franchise formula and who was the president ofy mcdonald's and took mcdonald's public. when ray and harry war at odds there was friction and june was called the vice president of equilibrium, and everybody would go to hear because they nye -- like having a mom and dad fighting. that would the other those there and she was -- the ethos there and she was very staid in the middle and would help anyone. she took people in when they had problems. she was an incredible person i wish i could fine out more about her.r. there's a web site her family built when she pass evidence away but she stayed on the board of mcdonald's, i think until her death. she was very instrumental in ronald mcdonald house and built herself a palm property in palm beach when she left mcdonald's in chicago. so, it's interesting that a company that was not favorable to women in the early days, had an integral part of history, was told by her presence there. >> host: you did not meet her you say, or did. >> no. but our grandfather started -- unwas on the original franchise -- [inaudible] so that's our connection to june. just on a different note, the reviews that have come out one your book, can young tag be reviews and the broader picture with the founder coming out in demps and all all -- december ad all the angles being used with mcdonald's? >> guest: sure. kind of funny. all of a sudden mcdonald's is being veneratessed in pop culture with michael keaton playing ray kroc in the movie coming out and laura dern is the first waffle. i got interested because of the npr connection, wondering who is this whom who helped save npr's finances and also because i covered this peace sculpture in santa monica where i was until recently an arts reporter and this giant nuclear mushroom cloud -- was built by joan kroc. it was in disarray and i thought wife would joan kroc build this very unusual -- or fund this unusual sculpture, and she was a major no nukes proopinion inept in the '80s and fundmer many different ways of the movement and that's what got me interest interested. the movie, thick it's coincidences that -- i think they were looking for something that was like the social network, and that what's i've read. and i think it's the strange coincidence that the writer of the film and i have been right around, reading old books -- very few books written about the early days of mcdonald's, one was ray's memoir and one was from 1986, an excellent corporate history. so, i don't know itself it's just that now we're getting old enough that we're interested in things that are moss stall judge for our lives -- nose stall judge for our lives or childhoods. it's just interesting but great. a fascinating time. interesting to see how people respond to movie. every parentally ray kroc is studied in business schools around the world and the franchise model is studied. we'll see what happens. but i'veen enjoying fortunate press. it's good story. >> host: we think why chance chops chops is here -- that c-span is here and the energy of the -- just from the trailer i have seen, michael quietton will be a new perspective to ray kroc the mon who may be different than you're able to see in book. >> guest: also important to point out that my publisherrer is brilliant because the knew that the movie was coming out and so -- to >> host: exactly. >> guest: big shoutout to put nam, anyone else have a question for lisa? >> as with most great companies the key to success is who they surrounds themselves with, and you point edsome great people of course, what about fred? >> guest: fred turner. >> host: how does he play in the relationship and was he there, were there some exchanges that you identified in the book. >> guest: jess. fred turner -- i didn't get to talk to him before he passed away. he would not talk to me but fred term u turn are was ray's honda-picked successor and he, after ray retired, became the chairman of mcdonald's and was integral, even before that as a young man, he was apparently there the night that ray walked interest the criterion restaurant and first laid eyes on joan lever tack bit it in a documentary about mcdonald's. what an amazing force he was. was literally at the gridsle and knew how things worked behind the scenes in a mcdonald's and was entrusted by ray, groomed by ray to take over, and he did, and he served for many years.nd he was also very important to point out instrumental in getting ronald mock mcdonald house dot incredible wobble with sick children and their family.w he in 1977, when ray turned 75, decided to help take this idea, which is started in philadelphia, as a result of on franchise, had kind of grown out of a need in that community -- a longer story than that but one franchise did it and fred identified for ray's 75th 75th birthday, you asks people to donate to a fund which allowed other mcdonald's to get involved and start their own local ronald mcdonald houses. so, he is also a whole book unto himself and a critical force in the early days. for sure. >> host: right here. >> there's a long redder record dispeople who donate money, rockefeller, gates and buffet. what was joan influential or typical or in line? >> guest: so glad you asked that. one reason i wrote this book, and tempt it's when i hit walls -- which i decide almost constantly -- especially because mcdonald's did not wish to help me in any research -- i -- and joan family was reluctant to talk to me, too. one of the rains kept at it is because in looking at joan's philanthropy i realized she gave away all of her moyer before bill gates and buffet were heralded for making their pledge to give away their money. she was up ore does in the -- orthodox in the sense that the got tired of run appearing -- running a foundation. understandably so. she shut her foundation down in 1991, and basically just started giving out of her checkbook. she was rich enough she didn't need that big corporate structure. so i think that's very interesting. it's not something that works for everyone, or would work for everybody but she didn't want to have to answer to all of the -- when you get all these requestsw you have to handle all theve appeals and the more you give more, the more people ask for money. it wasn't that she was trying to consider the any regulation. she just wanted privacy and to be able to give. so, there were people in her life who thought that was unwise, but i if she kept the foundation in place, at the time of her death, it would last in perpetuity, writ funded and managed correct live but she made the choice not to do that. she didn't feel the need to have a foundation that lasted forever ship didn't necessarily know that there were people she would trust, even though whoever runs the ford foundation had nothing to do with the ford family in its origin. so it's really interesting story. i think for people who are f involved in any sort of philanthropy because what she did was not right for everyone but what she did was definitely right for her, and pioneering, and in many ways selfless. people have taken that giving pledge that gates and buff let has taken to give away half or b more or if the wealth who are not wealthy and i lot of that. i love that. people make that commitment and i love that joan made that commitment, too but not with any sort of proclamation, she just happened to be what happened. i hope that answers your question. it's a fascinating glimpse into american philanthropy for sure, that i hope celebrates her for a long time to come.ur >> host: this is five years of your life to research this. was this a labor of love sunny got a ph.d on ray and openand never, as my partner pointed out it, never done anything for as long is a have this book, which is telling about me. i'm sure. >> we happen you have enjoyed lisa napoli, the awe their of "ray and joan." i feel like we know them so much better after this conversation