This week on q a, author and Hudson Institute sr. Fellow, author herman, mr. Herman discusses his book, Douglas Macarthur, american warrior. Author herman, what made Douglas Mcarthur so controversial. A number of things. I think theyre aspect there aspect of his personality, the aspect of his politics and then there is also simply the what can i say the business of a man, here is someone who is a major american figure 41 and a halfcentury someone who commanded american troops in action and helped us shape american war policy and not one, not to, but three world wars, world war i, world war i, world war ii and the cold war. Here is somebody who really with the possible exception of franklin roosevelt, was presided at more events and made more decisions that shape the history of 20th century United States. And i cant think of anyone else with the exception of fdr. Host business as politics question. Guest he was a conservative republican which did not rub rail with the democratic presidency had to work with particularly fdr and harry truman. He was not a a conservative taft republican. He was not someone as taft republicans were interested in overturning aspects of the new deal and the incipient welfare state when he runs for president in 1952. He is more moderate than that. That is offending some conservatives on that point. He is a resolute anticommunist at a time when depending on the left and is more sympathetic and more willing to sort of work with the soviet union. And he was a person who always gives off the air that he is the smartest person in the room. That if you do not know you are going to find out very soon. The decisions he made are made from the best possible evidence from the weightiest judgment and therefore should not and cannot be questioned. This rubs other people with similar bog large scale it goes the wrong way. It led to friction and conflict. With american president s, two in particular, fdr and truman, but also it led to conflicts with people within his own service and in the other branches of the u. S. Military in that halfcentury plus career. Host when did you decide you wanted to write a big book on him . Guest the idea of a book on mcarthur was planted in my head by an added teacher at random house originally. And i actually thought about mcarthur as a great followup to some other work that i had done. I had done the joe mccarthy book for example, the war in the pacific but in the southwest pacific had intrigued me when i was working on my book on gandhi and churchill. Was 11 of those moments when someone flashes a sign that you and suddenly everything converges then you realize this is something that i would not only like to do but something that i think could be really different from the kind of books that have been written about mcarthur in the past and the way in which to really rethink and reevaluate who this person was, what his real significant was, what what his virtues really were that made him one of the most adored and actually did figures in american history, but also what were his flaws and what were the things that made him in many ways unpleasant and even hated by millions of people. Host we have videos from the 1952 Republican National convention where he spoke. The reason to show this is not in a silly because he was at the convention but because people who have never seen him get a chance to look at them. The video is not very sharp. I speak with a sense of pride, that all of my long life i have been a member of the Republican Party [applause]. As before me was my father. An Ardent Supporter of abraham lincoln. [applause]. I have an abiding faith that this party if it remained true to its great traditions can provide the country with the leadership which as in the days of lincoln will bring us back to peace and tranquility. That was 1952, he died in 1964. He is 84 years old when he died. Where was he in his life he died. Where was he in his life at this point . Guest that was an interesting clip for couple a reason. Its hard to believe that man is 72 years old. He looks great. Everybody who knew mcarthur were always stunned at the degree to which even at times of enormous stress like during the korean war and then leading the southwest pacific during world war ii people were stunned by the fact that he always seemed to be very healthy that he seemed to be very strong. He plays talks about how tall mcarthur was. He was was under. It was just that he stood so tall and erect that he had this a bearing about him that just made people at a couple of inches to his actual height. The other thing that i will will remark about that is is that is not macarthur at his best. That is a speech of a man who at that point he is deeply disappointed. To really get a sense of where macarthur is in terms of his rhetorical power you really have to go back to his speech to the joint session of congress right after he returned from korea in which the house rose as a body over 50 times to applaud lines in the speech. That is of course the one that finishes with the famous old soldiers never die, they only fade away. So a soldier that has done his duty as he saw it. That is probably mcarthur at his best. But this is is an interesting clip for this reason. This is a disappointed mcarthur. This is macarthur had hoped that speech at the joint session of congress would be propelling him to get into the white house and getting into the republican nomination and in fact he really got almost nowhere. He was strong by the taft and eisenhower forces. Of course eisenhower ss former chief of staff going back to the days in the philippines, the person he always looked down on his sort of a junior officer type protege ends up with the nomination instead. Host did he support him . Spee2 he does. He comes out in favor of that, up until the convention he took his ten delegates that he had when the convention sat. He was originally a taft supported. He was a little better about the way eisenhower handled the campaign and treated him. But i think after the election they become more reconciled. Eisenhower reaches out to truman and asks his advice about how to end the korean war which looks like its at the point of becoming one of the endless wars that we have gotten use to wars that we have gotten use to but it was a new experience for americans. So he was a disappointed man, he is a tired man, the rhetoric sounds in that clip sounds old fashion an old stage. The only thing thats interesting is that its not not how we usually see macarthur. Macarthur was someone who early on understood the importance of trademark look as a way to project leadership. Like the cover on the book. The corncob pipe, which by the way he did not smoke. He actually preferred cigarettes and cigars. But because it was a trademark corncob was a trademark corncob pipe, which he personally designed as a matter fact, he knew that was the image. That is Douglas Macarthur. You see the corncob pipe. The hat. The hat, the cap with the scrambled eggs on top and the ego which he designed himself as a matter fact. He had a haberdashery new york and park avenue which when he lost the hat it was wanted to have an exact copy sent to him. The letter jacket, the air force jacket that he would wear. The rayban sunglasses, all of these things are what it is that made Douglas Macarthur in icon. All of them very consciously worked on in his thinking about himself as a leader because he saw these as ways in which to communicate that sense of leadership that sense of confidence which inspired his troops from really the First World War all the way through the darkest days in korea. Host in this clip he mentioned his father, Arthur Macarthur. He point out in the book about how theyre both in the military. They both got a medal of honor, how did that happen . Theyre both generals. Spee1. Guest the metal of honor that Arthur Macarthur earned was for his actions from chattanooga up lookout mountain. The civil war. You have to have to remember, he is 16 years old when he goes off to war. He becomes agitated of the 24th wisconsin, when you look at pictures of him, you kinda have a feeling of what youre looking at somebody who is dressed up for halloween as a union soldier. But that is him. That is the real Arthur Macarthur, he is a civil war hero, he is severely wounded several times and at the end of the war he becomes Lieutenant Colonel and commands his regiment, the 24th wisconsin. Hes not old enough to vote but hes old enough to command the union army regiment. After the war he had a choice of careers, he could have gone into politics, he could have gone into business, he politics, he could have gone into business, he was a wisconsin hero. Instead, what he did was remain in the army and served on as i described in the book a series of john ford movie sets from films like fort apache and she wore a Yellow Ribbon where he goes and eventually brings his wife and his sons are all born there. His career is in many ways a pathway to Douglas Macarthurs and 11 of the things i wanted to do in this book was to make it clear for the first time just how much the linkage of how macarthur the sun and macarthur the father, how strong that link really was. Most of them talk about the mother and i will talk about her in a minute. She is a very powerful figure in macarthurs life in macarthurs life until her death in 1935. But Arthur Macarthur is the person who teaches him about the arts of war, who teaches him about the honor of service in the u. S. Military, the u. S. Army, and also the one who opens his eyes to americas possibilities as a great power in asia and becoming with that democracy and freedom in asia as the european colonial powers and empires fall apart. Arthur macarthur was the trace of the philippine interaction. He is the one the figures out how to defeat the philippine at the end of the spanishamerican war. And by rules manages to capture the Philippine Guerrilla leader. Who he then signs a peace treaty within releases from prison. He begins the process of reconstruction of the philippines as military governor there. And there is a series of reforms in the philippines, one a spanish colony into the modern world and give it a rule of law, sanitation and road service. He even writes a textbook on philippine history for his schoolkids. He is a master administrator as well as a brilliant military strategist. As i point out in the books, his son douglas then goes to japan to administer the occupation of postwar japan, everyone is amazed of his ability to pull the society together into make these important, even radical changes in some ways and to juggle all of the forces and all of the different ushered groups within japan and washington, and the other allies with such effortless skill. Part of it is he learned all of this from his father. From. From his fathers express and the philippine. Host you mentioned his mothers lets go there. Did you send the book that he finished first at west point . Guest he was probably the finest record as cistern at west point as anyone since robert e lee and a record in many ways still stands on challenge to the state. Host can you tell us i know fdr is another near him when he went to harvard, why doesnt Douglas Macarthurs mother moved to west point . Guest she moved there to help supervise his studies, she lived in a rooming house outside of the grounds of west point, there they are, that is Young Douglas there on the right and of course his mother, mary pink pick me harder. She became known as pinky. She looks for minimal formidable in that picture and she was. But when i started this book i was very much led by previous biographers of macarthur that think of her as this domineering woman, almost a kind of lady macbeth type and sort of pushing and propelling her son forward in her career and she did push and propel them forward. But what i came to realize, the more i learned about their relationship and how it was built, you realize it wasnt the second thing she did at west point. She provided strong emotional support and guidance for him with the really tough decisions he had to make. Throughout his life he conveys an image of a man who is totally certain of his self, completely in command, someone who is sure of every decision he makes and choices he makes and from west point on this is one of the characteristics that everybody noticed. But underneath he was very insecure, someone who needed support, filled with selfdoubts, mary macarthur, his mom provided that support, he would find it later on with his second wife with jean macarthur. But her role i came to realize more and more was really much more, very constructive, very helpful and i dont think he could have had the kind of career he did or achieve the kind of height and success in his career in army if she had not been there to support him and provide help and guidance. Host i hate to do this to you. Guest go ahead. Host short, quick points from the different periods in his life that so much to go into and youll see how i want to do this, but what what did he do that was significant in world war i . Guest he did two things. One was what earned him, it should have earned him a medal of honor, nobody had any doubts about it was his incredible bravery and action. Leading troops of the 42nd division, the Rainbow Division it was called and then commanding a combat brigade within that division. He wins seven silver stars in world war i. What is that mean . A silver star simply means for exceptional bravery under fire. Is a staff officer, he is someone who goes and leaves the troops. He says i have to go and see whats happening for myself. Our guys are going up against and what the train is and what the enemy position look like. So he goes into action on a regular basis. Several Service Silver stars and distinguish metals and nominated for medal of honor but, in the end general pershing says no, his incredible bravery with the ship fields goes without question, however if he had been killed then he wouldve got a medal of honor but he survives i think were going to skip the metal of honor this time around. But the second 1i want to stress this, as part of the general staff he helped to structure the American Expeditionary force as it went over. He helped build the 42nd division as one of the first units to go over there and to organize which divisions for u. S. Army that was not really ready for this largescale conventional warfare in europe. He wanted to mastermind the whole campaign, the whole putting together of the force that he leads in the war. So hes a a huge figure as a young major and Brigadier General. Host what year did he go to europe and fight . The fall of 1917. The main action that he and the 42nd the 42nd division saw was in 1918. Was he married then. Guest he was still single. He wouldve been in his 30s, he he wanted to be a Brigadier General in his the 30. Lets go to world war ii. Host was a major accomplishment. Guest for my standpoint it is that he manages to turn what look like a massive defeat in the philippines into a springboard victory. I mean it in this sense. The philippines, to attack the same time as pearl harbor. A surprise attack that wipes out the b17 force that macarthur and everybody else in the army and air force were going to defend those protect from japanese invasion. Hes outclassed in terms of equipment and quality of soldiers, numbers of soldiers. For they can rely upon in the campaign, yet in the retreat, the baton baton he manages to fight the japanese to stand it stands still. He is pulled out from there by orders from franklin roosevelt, contrary to this macarthur did arrange to leave the philippines and the fortress that corregidor was he was held up with a handful of his staff. He intended to fight for the death, he assumed that was going to be his fate in the philippines but roosevelt for various reasons orders him to go to australia. Host let me ask about the geography roles, the philippines are located near japan. Host macarthur understood it could be a springboard. Host who on the philippines in those days . Guest is still an american protectorate. And there corregidor is in manila bay, it overlooks the harbor. It had been built originally by the spanish and then refortified by the americans as a way to control into block Japanese Naval forces for seizing control. But the japanese did not bother with that, they came over. Host what about the host that sticks out as an oversized tom just to the west of manila and sticks into manila bay. That is where macarthurs army finally had to make its last in. Guest i dont. Host i know this is quick. The next step would be when he was in charge of japan after the war and effort for five years per what did he do their . Guest well they have very scant supplies of men and equipment and turned it into a marriage or victory, he took took over that right after he left corregidor in march of 1942. In three bloodied years of fighting in the guinea and solomons and then up to liberate the philippines. Host where is new guinea . Guest it is the second largest island in the world after australia it just sits north of australia. It was a jumping off place for the japanese for an invasion of australia to dominate that southwest pacific. Host how many troops were under his control . Guest perhaps 5000 in the very early days. He commands perhaps the Largest Military force the United States have ever assembled the for the invasion of the philippines. Then he was to be in the supreme command of all of the invasion forces at the island of japan for the final onslaught. For operation downfall. Which doesnt happen because we drop atomic bombs. Host is a true that we did know that there were dropping the atomic bombs a. Guest learns about it through reading the stars and stripes newspaper. He he was aware that it had been developed but that it was going to be used and when it was going to be used, all of this was kept secret. Host what if he used a . Guest i think not. He felt that the bomb have this tremendous potential to completely undermines, demoralize the japanese. He was more in favor of using it and demonstration ways as opposed to the dropping of it. Fo