was saying, we can't have change without one another. the merging of identity, what the writing should be, we do it sometimes for laughter, sometimes this other purpose. it is becoming somebody else, you should feel free within your imagination, if you want to write that is what is great about octavia butler, helping out with space travel and futurism, you can go to the past and the present where you can go to the future and write about different people, you can be the black woman writer, you are free to do all of that. >> which actually brings us back to the beginning of the discussion, the destruction of that dualism, intersection out he seems to be the roadmap, that is the roadmap we have to follow as we move into the future. i think we are done. i want to thank our panelists, all the great questions and your attention, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. i want to leave with this quote from charles johnson. when art is at its best, it liberates our perception. thank you so much. give another hand for our panelists. [applause] >> the next panel from the 13th annual national black writers conference is a conversation on race and gender. there is language used in this panel that some might find offensive. >> i am going to start by giving basic information while panelists are preparing. those who just got here i want to make sure you know who i am because i don't want you to say that lady. if you think i wasn't that good don't think about my name, forget about it. but if you like it you will remember. i am doctor, you got the doctor part? i got to tell you i may laugh and joke, doctor linda michelle baron. i will be a associate professor at york college, thank you, your college community where i had been the chair for four years and a wonderful job of teaching pre-service teachers and preparing them to teach our children so i am here to introduce our fourth panel for today but before i do i would like to give you some information. you are pretty good for being this late in the afternoon. those who are videotaping are from c-span booktv. i hope you watch c-span booktv. it saves you from some of the mess on television. can i get a witness. sometimes late at night i don't want to talk, want to make time for the speakers. we also want to make sure even at this point when this part of the program is ended and before the videotape there are authors who will autograph their work. you want to keep that value, keep the artifact with you. go to the area where they are selling the books, the official bookstore, sisters uptown bookstore. don't forget about them when you are in harlem, you are invited today to this evening's award program. it is open and free to the public. did you hear that? free? we hope you are able to do that and to attend the benefit reception and concert this evening. before i introduce them i want you ready for this. we have been sitting for a bit, some of you have been here since 10:00 this morning like i was and i thought it might be nice to have you prepare. a little poem. your job is to say i shake. by any means power, mention power, we are going to do this real quick. i will introduce the moderator. it is the drum. imitation, god's creation, righteous feeling, the drum. the heat of us, the move of us, the drum. am 80 home, talking to you, beat the drum. it is a drum speaking in tongues, past and present. i am hearing it. i am all wrapped up, i am wearing it, the drum. stopping and unfolding the power and passion of who we are, and beating out the drum of me, the drum. it is the drum. it is the drum. i said bring that energy when we introduce this panel who will be speaking on the politics of race and gender in the literature of black writers. this is in your program, it also does in the age of president obama, the question that comes to mind, and was left racially divided, 15 or 20 years ago, and because of president obama, that is another story. and introduce the moderator and the institution, professor ford was appointed chair of the public administration department in january 2014 at maker evers and the master public administration, the candidate at columbia's university and other international -- another institution. we want to make sure there was time to speak, a contributor to the black lives literary magazine, you hear him on tv, he will keep this party started and keep it going. [applause] >> thank you for that. good afternoon. we have an exciting conversation about to take place, told to remind all of you that slips of paper are being distributed so if you have questions they will be collected. i would ask you to frame questions in a way that our panelists will be able to have a conversation with you. that is the whole idea. what we do over the next hour and 15 minutes, hour and a half, we have three hours, doctor green. is that correct? we have three hours, is that correct? >> we will be here. >> let me, first of all, you know what the topic of discussion is for today. on behalf of national black writers conference committee, i want to thank all of you for participating and making this the historic event that it is. having said that let me introduce our panelists briefly. you have their presentations in your program but it is useful. to my far right, mister paul beanie, his current novel the sellout about race relations in america won the national book critics circle award for fiction, you can give a round of applause for that. he is the author of slumberland and the white boys shuffle, it includes a big bank take a little bank and joker and he lives here in new york city, please join me in welcoming him. [applause] >> to my immediate right, guess who that is. ms. daniels. mcdaniels is an author and award-winning journalist, the author of in-flight conversations on race, politics, sex, money, ghetto nation, work has appeared in fortune, the new york times magazine, usa today, heart and soul, men's fitness, she is a contributor to essence as part of the journalism faculty at new york university, native new yorker who lives in brooklyn and a graduate of yale university and columbia university school of journalism, please join me in welcoming miss daniel. [applause] >> we had a panel revolt take place in our preparations. we asked our colleagues to make opening statements and they refused so we will not have opening statements. we will just begin and we will begin and i ask the panel to begin with this notion. both of you i would say, writing nonfiction and fiction area have this one characteristic that could be called the reverend. on very serious topics but taking them from another angle. when we talk about this particular path, literary path, what is the value of the reference and what do you hope to elicit from your readers at the end of the day when they close your book and say what is it your irreverent path is supposed to get out of your readers? this revolt cannot continue. >> i think when you are writing about issues of race and gender, reverence is necessary. too often when we are talking about topics that are uncomfortable, is acceptable. and further the dialogue when you make people think. and let me say something, i want to challenge people's assumptions. and matt moved the dialogue forward. and something successful. >> in your book the sellout, the protagonists, brought on trial brought up on trial restoring slavery to the united states. the same question for you, and what was available for writers these days. >> for me -- for me, when i started writing and thinking about what i wanted to say, one thing i thought about is the way me and my family, me and my friends talk about these topics was tonally so different from the way i read about the topics and everything was on one note, very serious. when me and my friends would talk about it or me and my sisters we talk about it with an extreme level of seriousness but also some irreverence, some cynicism, as in the title of your book, some frank in politeness that was part of the discussion and for me made the discussion i don't want to say more honest but definitely more well-rounded and a little more genuine. that is an important thing. with this latest book, me pushing these discourses i would hear about and going if black america was so much better under segregation as some people say what does that look like in today's context? that was a challenging and fun idea to explore. >> we actually had comments to that effect during this conference. with that in mind, the set up for what we are here to talk about, two elements, this whole notion of race, politics, gender and how you approach that. racial policies we are looking at have to be seen in the context of the election of the first african-american president and since january 2009, one can argue that the whole discussion about race has changed because of the reaction we see both in the white community, some of us may not have expected the level and consistency of opposition we have seen and the black community and the level of criticism of president obama may be different than we expected. let me put another part on that that has to do with gender. if we were having this conference five years ago the discussion of how you write about gender in your fictional and nonfictional works respectively would be mailed/female issue. five years later we have a much different notion of how gender definitions at this point and the question becomes as you write today and as you will write in the future how do you take into account this perhaps nuanced and fragmented notion of gender in the first place? what do you think? we shall flip a coin. >> i don't think about any of that to be honest. i am not trying to be flippant. i take that stuff very seriously but i don't think about it to the point of can i -- do i have to address all these things? i can't do that so i don't try. i try to address what is important to me and hopefully in a way that is sometimes frankly can be construed as disrespectful but hopefully in a bigger context it leads to a different understanding. my girlfriend said something to me that state with the, how do you write when thinking of writing about saying about women that i interpret to write about something that i don't know, she was saying make sure your character has fun. it is something i tell my students because they want to explore, take some risks to write about somebody who is not like them. whatever that means in the context of the story we are telling and for me if it is so important, it just expands the range of how you think about the character, and the piece of advice that stayed with me doesn't shape how i write or what i say and i have taken into consideration when i say seriously, things people will think of as offensive sometimes and sometimes i have to say to myself that is not my concern. that is the story i want to be told. and i am not trying to offend. and being irreverent -- >> the level of opposition we see from the white political community to barack obama, historically unprecedented. and someone self-described the reverend would be pretty rich material for you someplace along the line. >> the black disrespect has been insane. he has been disrespected from any number of people. >> we talk about this earlier. i don't think we are more racially polarized than we were 20 years ago at all. and in front of the microphone in the privacy of their house. and i think what is different is what we are talking about, the level of disrespect, that is why people feel comfortable saying these things out loud because there is an inherent level of disrespect. >> president lincoln was called a baboon, franklin roosevelt was called a traitor to his class. there does seem to be something special about criticisms and disrespect cascaded on this particular president. from the black side and the white side, what is the uniqueness? >> there is a genuine disrespect for black people, he is a black guy and that flows all kinds of different ways. for me, one of the small things, it is my bias also. they are always interrupting him. no matter who it is. i don't know if i remember clinton hitting interrupted like this all the time. or george bush getting interrupted like this all the time. there are little things i see, if i was still in grad school i might take time to do a study to see if it is just me or if it is true. you say a special disrespect, i don't know what that means. it is special because he is the president. it is a new kind of disrespect for a black president as opposed to disrespecting a black professor or black police officer or black doctor. it depends what you mean by special. >> it feels different. it is the object of scorn from some side or another, it is a special little sharper perhaps more personalized, i don't know. what do you think? >> i don't know. i am thinking as i am talking but does it even matter. does it matter by how much? they are screwed up ten years ago and they will tell you. i don't know if it matters the degree to how screwed up it is. >> if the racial polarization we see today from a societal standpoint or a political standpoint, pretty much that way all along instead of being articulated to a greater extent, is there some way it changes over time or it is the rut we are stuck in as the united states as americans, what do you think. >> it depends on the day you ask me. but i think what changes, politics and economics, don't know if you can change hearts and minds. you can teach people there are certain ways not to act but that doesn't mean they transformed and that is what i feel if i am locked into that if you ask me i feel cynical. what changes is what is acceptable. people might not change what society accepts, that can make day-to-day different. let's pivot for a moment because the other element we want to discuss has to do with the issue, the concept of gender falls in to a political standpoint or societal standpoint or the standpoint of where you fall or write about, and the notion of gender is a pretty binary notion we were discussing five years ago and you have a number of things, a woman seriously running for president for a second time in this country, we have the same sex marriage has been pretty much codified by the us supreme court throughout the country and a number of other changes we have seen with respect to definitions of gender as well as what it means to be in any of these gender categories. and today or yesterday, you have been commenting on these matters. what are you seeing in this? what do you feel are some useful areas of comment and perspective? >> everything that i write i am always writing from the point of view of a black woman. that is who i am. i can't separate today i will write the gender thing and today i will write the race thing, intertwined identity. i never separate them out. it is impossible. in terms of being in an age where we have prominent presidential candidates who are female, people of color and all types of diversity going on in this election, in this race, it surprises me, how much resistance there has been to the candidacy that people contribute to gender. >> you are talking about hillary clinton. >> i never go down the dark hole of twitter but for some reason i was reading through twitter stuff and charles posted this comment, the email he had gotten, it was a bernie sanders supporter who said if he couldn't vote for bernie he was going to vote for donald trump to blow up the gop. he was commenting he got lots of these emails recently. my mind was blown. you can vote for whoever you want but to say you are going to switch over to trump if you can't vote for bernie, to me gender, i am not -- to completely put on my harness, not as a hillary clinton supporter, but to not acknowledge gender is not shaping that decision-making, you cannot bear the thought of voting for a woman candidate that you will vote for a racist, is that any better? i don't get that. so, surprised about as much as gender has been talked about how much has not been talked about, we are not admitting how much gender is affecting our choices. >> what do you think? >> i agree. because he didn't say i won't vote for that whatever, you can read that as a genderless crime i guess. i agree. it is one of the little outs that being polite has always given us because when you pretend to be polite by not saying something then you haven't said it. i was having this conversation, another thing that won't make sense but a similar thing online for someone calling someone out and using their last name, rosencrantz, a thing that was anti-semitic but can be construed as anti-semitic, call them a jew or say this but these other -- same thing you get, i wasn't being racist, never said x why and the but you know what it is because it is not spelled out or starred, it makes the conversation so difficult, because even the deconstruction of the comment, there is a nuance to this that is hard to pin down but you know it when it has been tweeted. i don't have an answer to this. at the same time i don't feel it is necessarily my responsibility to address all of these things. that is a quote by popeye. >> it is an indication of progress, and i am not dealing with this today. couldn't have that advantage. to make that decision would cost me something else it might not cost me today. i don't have a solid way to talk about these, that is the fun part of doing it. >> when you were asked about the binary and different genders, the nuance of the moment we are in, that is the challenge that makes writing about these issues fun at this point and it also is empowering because there is a diversity of black points out there. we don't have to write about every single thing, there is a whole auditorium of us out there that can write things from their point of view and we shouldn't have the same point of view, and when we get to the point that they don't have the same point of view. >> we hear -- the women's movement, people like and that in many instances to the civil rights struggle, the struggle of black americans, the same analog being discussed with the notion of the lgbt queue community and people in that community and those communities seeking validation and rights and so on. do you see those comparisons as being apt or appropriate or do you have problems with that, like that? >> any marginalized community is uniting to climb up. that is what all these struggles learn from each other and what worked. i don't care what you call it as long as people are fighting back. i don't have a problem with that. the dangerous thinking is the lgbt community is some sort of united force and there are not different fights within that. >> i guess it would be true. it goes back to this binary, not binary discussion we talked about before, we really are in a different universe, a different kind of adjustment with respect to how we look at these matters. >> while we're waiting for the let me just take a point of privilege of having the microphone. we're joined today by many e people here and i want to make special mention of the people literally founders of medgar evers college and i want to recognize him please. [applause] literally we would not be here if it was not for -- going to say assemblyman honorable al, no doctor. what is wrong with me, right, and received a doctorate from e here as a matter of fact. right are, so we want to just acknowledge certainly thank you very much. so editing the questions here right now. so -- okay. or you could just stand up to the microphone and take over. [laughter] anybody want to race to the microphone? >> editing your question -- >> no, not really editing the question okay but in the meantime, yes please if gas just tell us who you are lees. >> i'm jahari a journalist and the point, how do you navigate challenges of explain to larger institutions that there are many black voices and gay keepers tend to be white people who have this perception of what black culture is. and as a writer, editor who is a color how do you navigate of that emotionally, professionally? >> excellent question. >> it is. it's very perceptive question because it's overlooked how difficult that struggle is. i mean, i love being a writer, i love being a journalist but that part stuck. it's hardest part -- it's a continuous fight. i think, i think what young writers and what writers should realize also is that not every story is -- is not every publication is the right place for ever story. and so you have to figure out where to tell your are story and what you're trying to accomplish by that story by who yowpght to read that story and it will sharp not only what you write but how you write it, and as to your point of getting across the point that there's -- more than one black story, voice there, i don't have an answer or for that because i haven't been able to -- >> very challenging so i work for if a place where we talk about quote unquote black issues and get awards for that. but what's in the newsroom, there are not people of color. and when you try to bring u up points that don't coincide with their narrative of it, it's a challenge to even bring in other writers who may not have that same picture. >> so what i did not to cut you off. because what i -- what -- time when is i was most successful is basically when folks didn't get it. i just did it. i was like i'm a better writer than i am a talker. so here -- you're not going to get it. i've been in the news meeting nobody will get it so i'll go off into the story and get the writer and go to the story and then here now, get it, and that i feel can sometimes work better like someone can actually read. like oh, i see something and then just to be stubborn and strong with editors want to change things no, that's not reflective of my reporting pep and that's another thing i think, if you're a black writer in a newsroom who is writing about black issues, to not let them forget that you are a reporter not like i know this because i'm a black woman. i know that because i'm a journalist and i've reported it and this is the facts and that is language they can understand. >> okay, thank you. >> paul do you have anything you want to add to that? >> i thought that was well said and i think there's a danger when start writing towards being understood sometimes and you lose what you're saying. and one of the things that you know because we don't get taught how to read, sometimes you have to learn how to read and you have to have faith that people will come to what you're saying. sometimes it takes time. and i think it that often, you know, we have this expectation i'm doing it, everybody is supposed to love it doesn't matter who you are or writing about it is just not the case. one of the elements and we want to get to the next question here is, that, of course, how you get published has changed tremendously over o the last five, ten years. we have outside people who have self-published. we have any number of online opportunity and what have you. how does that factor into question that we just heard from? >> we have -- i think i've been writing for a long time and so one of the things for me i had to learn to realize is -- i mean who they are comes into account. but it's -- does that person understand what you're saying? you know i've had people who wanted me to write for them because i was the hot name whatever and i had to learn that wasn't the case they don't really understand what i do. they think they understand what i represent. and that's when i get in trouble buzz i'm like yeah, we're on two different ends. and then so for me i've been fortunate to find people who believe in what i write so not about where they are or publish but them finding people willing to go to bat or for me. that's kind of -- not necessarily like we're friends or anything but that's -- it just comes down to this interpersonal things at times, and yeah. >> share a reverence perhaps. >> hopefully there's a beyond a reverence. but beyond appreciation for trying to make change for trying to -- broaden discourse. and not everybody is comfortable for that because that doesn't sell and that's a whole other thing. >> yes please. >> good afternoon. this is sort of a process course. >> introduce yourself please. >> my name is jason. >> jason. >> jason. >> okay. [laughter] >> like prince. okay. but jason. so this it piggyback on what you had talked about earlier professor ford in regards to moving from this age of identity where it's by binary and this goes to both cora and paul. you know, has the language that women and lbgtq people that used to self-identify force you to modify like if you're, when you're writing a character has your language changed as far as like if you're writing about someone you're trying to be true to your story and write about i'm a male and i'm trying to write about a person who is trans. so how ho does that affect your process as far as when you're creating that character. you know when they're referring to themselves they're not going to use he or o she. you know, how does that affect your process in creating the character? >> here's a mouthful. >> yeah. i mean -- >> but actually this will also apply being a journalist. how would that affect you? i don't to just leave it in the realm of fiction. >> do it from the journalist you from the fiction. because i think from the journalist perspective is easier. because when i'm -- when had i'm interviewing whatever had story i'm doing, you know, i'm always trying to make sure people that are in my stories are treated with respect, and that doesn't matter who they are. i can disagree with every single thing that they say. they can be, you know, donald trump, still going to be treated look in respect within my story. and in part for me part of treating someone is with respect is valuing language that they use, and so i think that's why journalism you know why -- quotes in journalism it is writing so special. because you can use people's language and hear how they talk, and so, you know, piece of journalism it would be easy that's the language they use that will be what i use in my piece and if it doesn't coincide with the style of thing magazine or newspaper that you're writing are because they're going to have their own style of, you know, mister and misses or he or she, whatever it is, you -- sometimes you'll have to work a little bit harder to naught so you're not conflicting those styles but i think allowing voices of the people you're interviewed shine more into using it more will get that sort of voice -- voice through. so i don't -- i think it's, i don't think it's as difficult or as a challenge had. you know i think what's more difficult is i think really to the first question is, getting stories where there's these other voices to be valued in the news rule to get that story in the first place rather than once it's been agreed that you're doing that to get those. i kind of didn't make sense at the end. but i think it's -- you know, i take seriously peoples 'words why in my quotes there's a movement in journalism some people will correct grammar in peoples 'quotes and i'm not in that. i like peel to speak how they speak. and you know, if the grammar or if a difficulty with language is to the point where their point is not getting across maybe that's not a quote to use but a time where you're explaining what they say but put something in different quotes this is what you said in all of its glory and everything that's it. and that makes to me that makes journalistic writing so exciting is to showcase voices and i think for fictionist it is different. different challenges. >> i can only speak for myself but my answer is i treat everybody with equal amount of disrespect so -- [laughter] okay. >> thank you. >> there we go. >> so well, just -- the reason this came to my mind i was thinking about white boy shuffle. like gunner on beach being punked. like the whole idea like -- if gunner was a millennial, you know, would that language have been different? or his self-perception of that event in the book. >> i don't know. i'm not a millennial. you know, and i think we were talking about earlier about like have these problems changed? and a friend of mine who runs a literature magazine and in california named is oscar mexican american guy. we were out with one of my students one day, and black guy californian he said to us man ii feel so sorry for you guys we were like wait you feel sorry fors us, he's like you had it so hard. like okay. but oscar and i both said to him, we think you have it harder than us. because -- you're so constrained in how you feel you can express yourself. you know, in this thing of always wanting to say the right thing in the right way even when something really needs to be said. you know, and i think that's changing now around with black lives matter and all of these things of these people they don't give a puck what anybody else has to say what they say, and there's a power to that and the freedom to that, and it's not saying that it is right or wrong necessarily when one somebody is censoring yourself. i have my own, not in agreement with everything. i fall on spectrums somewhere, but i think when you start feeling that someone is constricting how you express yourself, and it's dangerous. but that's danger of free expression. and you know, for me it was interesting when we had that conversation with him it was interesting to see him go shit, i have to look at this tv show differently it's not all fun and games necessarily by messages that aren't clear necessarily that i'm not seeing and it changed how we write and how he thought. not trying to change, but it opened up his mind to see shit there's things that i can't say because they've had -- it's not all for a bad reason but trying to be polite and a respectful and there's times to impolite and that's a path that people are trying to negotiate . >> thank you. >> okay. yes please. >> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. >> thank you for being here. >> my question is -- >> sorry you want to introduce yourself. >> kojo adae. great paul robinson said artists are the gate keeper of the truth in culture or society and late great seemed to articulate that in his work in about responsibility of artists. you are writers. do you feel that you have a responsibility to challenge the consistency of the injustices in this nation and certainly globally but let's start here in the united states. do you feel you have a responsibility as a writer because i've heard writers say i won't call a name. i write but i'm not political. i'm not an activist in my writing but i'm a writer. u do you feel that is a space that you can -- live with in integrity doing your work? >> flip a coin -- [laughter] >> i mean, go ahead. sorry. >> i think it's -- i think you -- i think to have an obligation you have to have also an interest, so i think in my case i have both. with that interest, and if i didn't have that interest, then you know, the writing would be flat on the page, it wouldn't mac a difference, and so i think you know most of like paul at the beginning, you know, said what do you write about it? it was a hard question for me to answer but it was about race. you know, in this format but basically that's one consistent -- or narrative that they come through basically all of my writing. there's -- this issue of brace, and do i feel that's my obligation? well that's my voice. you know, so i guess so. i guess that's my obligation, but ifs there's another black writer who doesn't. who doesn't get it or doesn't feel it, i don't -- i don't them writing about it then. you know, if it's something that they are not interested in, then -- you know those are folks who are going to answer well then i just write. i think inherently as a black writer none of us u just write or walk, or listen because there's something politicized about our being by just being black folks in this country. >> paul anything -- >> not really. >> because there's this notion that -- of e we've heard post racial, or transracial times that we live in. which i guess qowld empower someone to say i'm black but i just write. not affected by cora what you mentioned in. >> it is true for whoever said that. i won't say that's not true for them but that's not for me. i have ways that i feel about this. you know, for me being a black writer is not a that's who i am, with i don't think of it as like i don't operate and this is my hangup not like i'm a proud black writer or something like that but not ashamed of being a black writer. but these are things that i think about in my writing what those words mean, try, what happens with two truth truths come up against each other. so like what he just said, is stuff that i think of all of the time but not for me i try to render what that means to me. because i never know. you know, because i have an agenda but my agenda isn't to tell the truth or to tell a truth but my agenda to find out what had the fuck it is that i'm thinking and wherever i get close to render that, i want to say truth but for me there's a meeting there that happens, and i'm like you know, for me truth whatever it is that change it is from sentence to sentence, from paragraph to paragraph from day-to-day, and just how i think job you know, being of my generation for whatever reason. being my mother's son. so yeah. yeah. >> okay. thank you. >> yes please. >> dion bennett for the last question hughes answer ad you. in the last entry and then racial mountain which you can find online, he answered her question a long time ago, and it's a u useful answer encouraging you to read that. but that's not my question but i'm really interested in how we talked not just about gender but about sexism in particular. and the hip-hop panel we talked a little bit about this. i remember i'm old. so i remember when color purple came out and there was all of this discourse about black women writers and whether or not to address sexism and i feel like we've come a long way and we have a lot of young black men who really critique sexism. but that doesn't mean that sexism is undane so how do we address sexism or critique or responds to sexism through writing and how do we -- support both the women and the the men because i think a lot of men are doing it and not getting credit for it. how do we support the men and women who have the courage to do it because they take a lot of heat when they do. so i'm interested in that and one last lings thing how do we use writing to protect our intellectual authority as black people. are we doing as much as we can with writing in that -- area? >> okay. so we have got a two here. okay that's oak. you sneaked that one. but that's okay. [inaudible] if i suggest try one and then two okay so first is issue of sexism and try to address that as writers, and how it might better be addressed going forward. >> would you like to go first this time? >> yeah, sure. >> yeah. i mean this is something that i think about necessarily in terms of sexism but dlb that and some people come across. i finds that people who say i'm a feminist like males or other white people who say i'm prothis, they're not sexist and racist people often. and so one of the things i always think about is, you know, every few years there's this clamber against this language in hip-hop i think i remember reading alicia keys somebody asking her around this issue about how complex it is. you know what my favorite biggie small song is me and my bitch. and so she's breaking down that song means something for her. you know, but it's a song if you check off these boxes whether it is sexist or o not. so these things are complex sometimes. and so -- for me it's that gray area that for me is is always really interesting. and i don't have a right or whereon about that but i try to think about that and think about why i'm saying it is that i'm saying. you know. and it doesn't necessarily mean i'm going to change my language or change perspective of the character and i'm doing fiction and i have to think about is this what i think, character thinks but i try not to hide behind it either. and i can make mistakes and i have to be accountable for it also. you know, i have to say i don't know what intellectual authority is. >> we'll come back to intellectual authority in a moment. >> so -- while we're still on sexism part of it -- >> i would add also that -- i think that there's something healthy about -- about encourage about like black women aren't the only people who can or o should should be writit sexism or o women aren't only people who can and should be writing about sexism and get to that point to have other voices writing about any of the isms is not just black folks talking race ore women concerned about sexism then -- then we finally have like moved to a more healthy, healthy realm and so you know to get to that point, i think you have to -- i think we have to become better listeners and listen to folks and even if someone is saying something way out there and we don't think this, then tell them like this is bull shit or i disagree but still listen so that person is not afraid to say it. it doesn't mean that question of to agree with everyone. but people should feel like they should be able to say what they want to say, and that you know you should feel empowered to disagree with someone and tell someone disagree without thatting being sort of like -- you know a world campus. >> okay, we're going to punt on intellectual drama unless you want to be that intellectual authority. >> i'm not that intellectual. >> we'll try to get back to that number -- [inaudible] >> younger than me that's for sure. yes. i don't know what that sign says. you're waving to me. >> i think we have ten minutes. [laughter] >> trying to give you a hard time. yes, please. >> i have question -- you're over there. i'm sorry. okay. you'll be next. >> waiting i didn't know that you would be coming on lines so wanted to make sure i got another audience question in as well. okay, good afternoon. this is from edwards, her question was posed as her question was still regarding for next year's conference could medgar evers college kunc partner to expand the reach of the conversation, and i guess maybe to kind of just in more simple language like -- that conversation is having enough in the south where there is this need for it to kind of stretch out there because it seems like we're having this conversation in this location in new york and there's an expectation i suppose that it would happen here. but would you say that it's happening in the south and would you expand them? >> well, speaking for the institution, since dr. brenda greene has given me permission to do that. i know for just a moment quite seriously. this conversation is taking place all across the country. it's, you know, we've been through the south. you know, up north where we were upsouth i think this question and expression issues so i think that -- yeah, to the the extent to have more lengthage with our six institutions in the south on these types of conference, that would be great but ultimate issue is who you know, the demand creates the -- event. we haven't had a historic demand going over a quarter of a century which has created this event and we need to see that and other parts of the country as well. i know cora -- paul isn't it? paul. [laughter] >> i don't leave my apartment much so i can't speak or for the south. so things are happening for whatever reason things happen, and -- i don't have a -- you know, i don't know what to say. but you know -- [laughter] cora do you have anything? >> so -- yeah i think we have better -- >> she wanted to speak to the question of the representative. >> one of the representatives. [laughter] so yeah that was a very good question. and one of the, part of the vision of the national conference is to have not only conferences here medgar college but to expand them around the country, and we began that this year on february the 27th. we had a major strain at the multicultural education conference at sacramento state, and we had the theme of writing are, race embracing difference in sacramento state. that was the beginning and we're looking at where we can have satellite conferences throughout the country at least in the south, very important. even in further, further than northeast. ishmael reed was one of the presenters at that conference. he and his daughter and one was thicks he said oh this is really great . let's have a national bike rider strain in oakland at their book festival so we really need to replicate ourself os ands it's very important one the things dr. huck talked about when he was here for a town hall meeting is the importance of organizing the importance of building our own institutions so we have to take the lead in that. so i definitely agree ands what we need to pushrd if and anyone interested in working on that push forward on that. director of the conference dr. reid. [applause] >> i was going to say that dr. greene. sorry, my line. yes please. >> my name is -- speak into the mic please. >> johan joseph hopefully i have a quick question. so how did you, if you ever felt or o anything like that about writing, about who you are. how did you get past that fear in writing your truth and get past it and write about being black and being a woman. that's my question, i'm sorry. >> honestly i didn't have a fear about writing. writing is my love. that's where i can actually be honest in who i am. this is like all a complete far sight i don't speak this at all. i'm like -- paul always just in my house. so i think when i write, and paul touched on this a little bit. but i -- you know, for me writing is also kind of selfish because you want folks to read it but i'm writing for myself and pouring stuff out on the page and i'm hoping there will be someone there besides my mom that will read it but i won't tailer it or for folks other than my mom to read it. but i have one more reader but you're hoping there's someone else -- on your wavelength because i woact change my wavelength for that. fear. there is a nervousness after you are done. it is like i don't regret it and don't regret anything on that page but you wonder if anyone else is going to get it. it is not a fear, it is a nervousness or anxiety. people don't always get it. then it is more sadness that i am the only one who gets that, who speaks that way. it is an ego thing. i think i am right. this is happening. the fact that no one else sees it becomes depressing. >> we talked about this, getting it. you write something and you hope other people will get it and not everybody does. what is your take on it? >> i agree. for me, sorry i cuss so much but that is who i am. this is going to be completely hypocritical but when i say i don't care what anyone thinks that includes black people. i know i am not alone in what i think whether you are reverent or counter or whatever. i have always been an ass hole. i carry very deeply about what black people think. and to tailor what i'm writing to someone else. this is very important. i had someone come up to me, a party upstairs. and thank you because you are the person, and this is not going to mean anything. and it is -- they are going to be fine. it is a response, people telling me what a black man is supposed to do. they don't trust me, and it is acceptance to let me make my own decision and part of it is i don't care what anyone thinks of what i am saying. it is not like i want to say something to piss people off. that is not my intention. i will repeat myself over here. let me get to the point where i am at. >> we have another -- you are an avatar. >> i have my own question. >> introduce your self. >> i will. my name is melanie wilkerson. i will be succinct for the interests of time so myself and these two will be the final questions for the panel. my question stems from an earlier point made in regards to discussion around what is acceptable now. we are practicing accessibility more now in society and for me i felt inclined to expand on that point. i feel like it is a little bit of a chicken or reagan question. it is really what is acceptable that is influencing and changing the dynamics of our society or is it vice versa where there is a change in people that is influencing accessibility. i feel like i agree with a quote my professor used to reiterate to me all the time in my class, with more education, comes more education and with education more accessible now it is no coincidence that there is more acceptability emerging within our society while we still have heated contentions all the time but it is really what is acceptable? is it acceptability that is influencing or changing people or is a change in people that is influencing acceptability? what would you say? >> you want to start alphabetically? >> i am thinking. >> what do you mean by acceptability? >> for example, this is a racist and gender panel, the binary is just inherently understood, and has been as long as anyone in this body can remember. only now are we bringing it up as a broad-based discussion. it has always existed but as a broad-based discussion. that acceptability is relatively recent. is that a reflection of a change in people or is it that the advocates, advocates that they finally were yelling loud enough about the identity that people were actually and that being reinforced into law or visibility that that is changing people. does that make sense? >> that is pushed from the bottom up. what is acceptable in any realm depends on what folks in society are pushing ahead and i think your question of the chicken or the egg, the acceptability is shaped by what people are willing to do. stand up for and get away with any amount. that acceptability line definitely changes. hopefully doesn't stay stagnant but it should constantly be poked and prodded. >> i can't say anything better than that. the next question, that acceptability issue is very much in contention. we have seen legislation all over the country, north carolina most recently, a lot of places the notion that this non-binary notion with respect to gender definition has been acceptable, we are in new york city. we should remember this is not representative of the other 322 million people that live in this country at all. it is still a long way before acceptability i point out. this is a matter of fact. >> on a college campus. deliver new york city. >> absolutely. thank you for your question. yes, please. >> many years ago i was a student at howard university and while i was there, prince rock had come to the school and started a satire magazine. it didn't last very long because he allowed the material to be very offensive and they closed it and i wanted to pose this question. how do we train young people to use humor and satire in their writing and have that be acceptable because when we approach racism in a somber tone we don't yet that. now i would like to have that as well. >> excellent question and part of it is because what is in the curriculum is one note of african-american literature, not just one note but you read these 3 langston hughes poems, right? langston hughes is so irreverent and so funny and so political, but not until the big collection came out did i even see, i was 35 before i ever saw that stuff. that had to change, about what this idea of what african-american literature is and isn't. that crosses gender lines. it is out there but people don't know that it is out there. people are afraid to put it out there but it is a huge thing. an institution like howard acts like a bunch of junior high kids, like junior high kids, the teacher says and they go -- you can't do that. one of the things, in reference is -- irreverence is empowering and the acceptability to accept critique and the thing about critique is expanding your definition of who you think you are, who you want to be. it is hard to do but it does happen. i don't know how else to answer that question. >> coming from the nonfiction point of view nonfiction doesn't have to be dry and serious. these issues can be treated with humor in a nonfiction setting. sometimes when i write, they are surprised they laugh. i'm not as funny but it is not like i am trying to put a punchline in here but it is funny. life is funny. how you talk with your friends or think about that. whether you are writing fiction or nonfiction, you can point out the irony. >> when satire becomes acceptable you have to wonder about it. when paul received national book critics circle award, for the sellout, i got worried. don't you know this is supposed to be outrageous? satire is supposed to be on the edge by definition. it is always a struggle in that regard. the day it is not a struggle it stops being satire. yes, please. it is not really the last question but just for now. >> my name is maggie and my question is two tiered. what do you think is missing in the discourse? to some extent as a writer we are always if we see something missing we write about it. a question of what is missing, how do you decide what you tackle, your next -- what is missing? >> that is an easy question. >> that is a hard question. i think i think what is missing, i think there is a lot of stuff going on. what is missing is lack of attention to the range of stuff people are writing and doing and so we are constantly seeing the same arguments made the same way. so that is what is missing. that is part of that is being part of the media, being able to open up that lens or not even open up the lens in the media but open the lens in the audience to realize we can talk about these things, trying to do it so it is allowing them to have that audience and in terms of coming up with what i'm going to write about next sometimes it is -- i don't have a game plan, sometimes this is stuff that is buzzing in your head over and over, you will see it in different ways. part of being the quiet person in the room is you are standing there watching everything that is going on around you. it is amazing how repetitive life is and those are the things you start to think about why is this moment happening all over the place and you accentuate it. >> paul? >> if i knew i would do it i guess. what is missing is whatever the next book is that is going to come out. i can say this was one thing that is missing is i don't know how to say this, but maybe this is how we tell stories but there is a weird way of fiction about african-americans, still just black and white. and i think it could be from how i was raised, in this weird world where blackness was one of the many constructs that was happening, the width and the bandwidth of that construct changed over time and people are still really comfortable with the diversity, did you see chris rock's thing at the academy awards? i was so struck how that was black-and-white in terms of how he shaped that discussion and it is the trope we all fall into when we talk about power dynamics, that is missing for me a little bit. >> we have doctor baron has a hook in her hand over there. before we close a couple things we need to do quickly, three things. we have several members of the faculty here today and i would ask the rest of our audience if you take a moment to stand up and be recognized, members of the faculty. [applause] >> thank you so much for your support. this is the 13th national black writers conference and it is rare that we know we are participating in history at the time that it happens but this is a historical event. it has been going on a quarter of a century and moving forward. it does not happen without the leadership, true leadership of none other than the director of the center for black literature and the chair of the english department. [applause] >> and last and not least, when i had an opportunity to speak to our guest panelist, i thought, i knew this was going to be a special panel and i want to thank them both for their participation and the genius you brought to your work and for being our guest here today. [applause] >> the only thing. >> i also have this one poem i would like to read. [laughter] >> i will say this. it is such a gift. we are thinkers. what i loved about this panel is the opportunity to

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