Greatest meetings of the mines when you can go from a session to a debate of the coin now minimumwage we cover the waterfront with this conference. Before us now is a oneonone debate that i think of these is the old william f. Buckleys firing line if you remember those debates . Somebody q the trumpet fanfare. The debate to both sides and dont interrupt. The presenters get 10 minutes may get six six minutes for rebuttal to answer one of the questions they can thank their time with their original presentation is eight minutes they could save that for the rejoinder the age of the three minutes summing up at the end and at least 10 minutes worth of questions on the microphone out front and my eighth job is to take the temperature of the crowd at the end think about this to wine and did you change your mind . So do i believe minimumwage laws or a good or bad . At the end we will ask did you change your mind as the result . I hope itll look this fall but my first payroll job was 1963 and minimumwage was 0. 90 i ask how come you pay me that . He said i cannot take any less than that. That was the night janitors job. I worked up 1. 10. But for the purpose of this exercise talking about of National Minimum wage with the 10 to vincent nizolek itll suspicious with that minimumwage bill for experts will, up one at a time. First from the university of nevada las vegas and teaches that the school he will present the argument for minimum wage. [applause] thank you. Is a pleasure to be here. Such of libertarian crab but it is great. I will take you some through some ideas why we should raise minimum wage. My ideas and the institutional structure of equitably shared prosperity have collapsed and reasonably high minimum wages part of that structure. With income and Income Distribution have exploded and also living in a more equal society is unpleasant and unhealthy. So the idea is that the moderate intervention was part of a sensible strategy to share equitably shared prosperity . The potential costs are very low and the benefits include of those who receive minimum wage higher rates of trading and a happier and healthier society. Silica that economic context it is an interesting chart. What it shows there was an era in the United States of equitably shared prosperity the dark line shows how it has grown over time the blue line represents how the median Family Income has grown over time. There was a period through 1980 where the median family was able to participate in the fruits of productivity increases. About 1980 that changed and the median Family Income stagnated relative to productivity. What ensued was escalating inequality. One of the things that has occurred after the stagnation is record profit from the part of business. And it also goes to the top 1 but during that share prosperity the top 1 percent of Income Distribution is roughly 340,000 but the top 10 is turning 10 percent of national and come. We are right to where we were in the 1920s. The other thing that has occurred. With the average ec zero pay has increased dramatically from 20 times at bat 296 times and what was connected with this equitably shared prosperity is the high value of minimumwage. To get the indication how far minimumwage has fallen if you had index the minimum wage to productivity from the economy would be 18. 67 per hour. There is a time when it did follow productivity. Up through 1970. As the structure used to support higher wages for middle income workers but that is not the topic of the day but Union Density has fallen quite a bit. So why would society be healthier and happier . Was the evidence that is more equal . Looking at health and social problems it looks like in, inequality is corded with social problems. The more they exist in that society. But basically the more i and a cold the society the more miserable people are. So now to the proposal. It is proposed of three incremental increases ended by cents per hour so it will stand at 1010 per hour. This is the very modest increase of the minimumwage. In fact, we have seen this chart before. This would take a set 10. 10 per hour not even close of it was indexed to productivity. Notice in 1968 fulltime work at minimumwage pesetas where we would be 2016 as well so it is a modest increase. When it will not affect parttime teenage workers from affluent families many are over 30, of low income families, and are well along in their careers. This proposal would affect male and female workers. Over half of the affected workers would be over 30. Just over one kirk onequarter wouldbe parents and more than half the households affected would earn less than 40,000 per year. Not only that but more than half would work fulltime and a significant percentage are still no more than 2 an hour even 10 years into its. What about the potential negative effects . It is argued there is the employment effects to raise prices. Militant increase of minimumwage is with no statistical impact on unemployment so what about prices . The minimum wage and handing your hamburger 4 having the wage increase to the economic models suggest price would go up 0. 9 so not much impact on inflation. What about potential positive effects . Training for example . The evidence that it reduces the of wage dispersion and workers are less likely to quit and turnover which increases productivity and higher productivity means of higher wage can pay for itself. Also reducing the spending on the safety net programs but if the market miller proposal is adopted. , do i have . To summarize so prosperity has collapsed. With it has escalator has escalated it is pathological anise is part and only part of a reasonable strategy to restore shared prosperity potential cost of very low if don existent with higher wages at the low end that is why more trading by firms for society. [applause] excellent. Nine minutes 45 seconds. Will present it now for the case against the minimum wage law we have mary ruwart varied active in the Libertarian Party for individual liberty has written two books that i know of healing power world or with this debate shows answers to tough questions. Please welcome mary ruwart. [applause] i am here to make the case that minimumwage laws are hurt the very people theyre supposed to help. Of course, as libertarians they limit freedom between consenting adults. And variably limiting freedom backfires and actually creates problems but i will illustrate why it hurts the people were trying to help. Lets talk cowled minimumwage destroys jobs when minimumwage was required importer rigo it was raised three times and then over the next two years when it was applied about half the workers lost their jobs but there were not worth with that was. The same thing happened more recently in america some of what. In 2007 it was raised three times as a result of 45 loss of jobs. It was frozen in 2012 just to keep it from going downhill the minimumwage was frozen they decided to make an exception and not have it for these two countries. But has you know, these are extreme cases but i shows this because it is important to know that extreme changes of minimum wage to make as a difference. And to make a difference with the jobs and in santa fe minimum wage was increased 8. 50 an hour with a 55 increase but here was much closer to what was happening in the market so employment dropped a lot less dramatically, 3. 3 and then they drop to one hour for all workers unemployments for the of other workers drops so if you look at all workers and to see 3. 3 drop then you feel like it is not too big but with those other least likely to find another job it is very dramatic but the studies that have been done that show no difference in employing it is very possible when the minimum wage move is very small you go see an overall drop in employment but if you dont look you miss the effect it has on them. Now here is the graph from my book which is available from bookstores. I will grab my laser pointer so if i can we be i cannot. I will skip. Looked on the far side you will see job subject to the of minimumwage 1955 through 1980 and with the squares that indicate the coverage of the minimum wage increased over this time. The circles represent the employment ratio between black and rights black and whites. Teenage blacks had the same employment 50 as white teenagers and 1955 for minimumwage coverage. But notice when it went up unemployment went down dramatically. And because of this we have black economist Walter Williams noting saying it is one of the major causes of spiralling unemployment among young blacks and that is the new jim crow. And then at that time they are penalized by the of minimumwage. But notes theyre not actually employed they go from low wages to a the no wages. Would like them to have good wages . Certainly. There is a lot of knowledge about minimumwage it was used to reserve jobs for whites people because it was well known if the wage was higher than employers did not have to choose between prejudice and pocketbook. If the black worker was willing to work for the whites he would get the job but if the minimum wage was high enough he did not have to make that choice. Then the blacks are penalized. Also it kills onthejob training. I remember when i was at Michigan State working in the laboratory and i was paid half the minimum wage because at that time the jobs that i had because it was a great deal for me but halfway through my College Years of Legal Department at Michigan States said minimum wages will start applying to the job i held so i was fired. The only way to get back into the lab was to pay tuition for the independent study course. So now i had to pay to train i had to pay the University Money to get back to a lab. I remember when i was with lowincome housing we have material everywhere so of course, everybody knew we doing of rehab and a gentleman said the live one block down the street and i live in this home for the mentally disabled. Obviously not too much because we had a good conversation but he was a little slow and said i can clean up this mess for you at 2 an hour the minimum wage was more than that and i said why would you do that . He said i know i can work hard and well and i know if i do so youll probably want to give me a raise or if the project ends maybe even writes me a reference. I am a very good writer i could have but i was put off by the of minimumwage laws and i was concerned if i hired him i would be consideas exploiting the disabled and if i was willing to pay the full minimumwage hike to get the ablebodied person and predict how much they could do so was discouraged from hiring him had been older and wiser maybe i would not have reacted that way but i was a little frightened. So sometimes it actually stops people from getting their floods on the first rung of the economic ladder. The of this information is known even by people who lobby for minimum wage and even living wage of laws. The association of reform now lobbied very heavily for a living wage and minimumwage but yet sued california to be released from minimumwage restrictions because and i am quoting the more a court must pay up reach because of the minimumwage overtime requirements the few were outreach workers it can hire. They know i dont think everyone is like this certainly in just to make sure i mean notice respect but a lot of people know this and dont want it applied to them in the military is also asking for exemptions. Fastfood restaurants will will close on the basis because with the minimum wage hike to have to have health and welfare payments. Of a blake to summarize to say evidence is pretty strong those who are hurt by a minimum wage are those that can least afford to lose their jobs and that is what seems to have been. Overall there is a change of the employment but it is for the disadvantaged. Think you. [applause] that was also nine and a half minutes. If you came in late digest want to clarify john mackey is the case against but he had a scheduling conflict and mary filled in at last moment so now we have six minutes of response to the other persons case. Think you for that presentation. The first thing that mary mentioned was the notion of the freedom of adults to contract and definitely that is the good thing. But one of the things that is true about the labor market is wind of two parties contract they have very Different Levels of Bargaining Power. Especially less skilled workers. When there is a situation where they dont have much Bargaining Power the person that doesnt have the Bargaining Power gets exploited. That is definitely true with the labor market. We talk about collective bargaining and have a hard time to get my a students to understand what individual bargaining really is because when they got to get a job and bargain with the employer it does not seem like much but they needed a job in the employer gave them a the take it or leave it to offer so i tell them you have to root tell them so with the Employment Relationship is a little different. But mary mentioned a number of instances where minimumwage was increased and there was less employment and certainly that is the case. You can find anecdotes where that is the case but i could find anecdotes when the minimum wage is increased there is actually an increase of employment there is a famous study conducted 9091 and elected the increase of minimumwage said occurred in new jersey but not philadelphia. So here you have camden in philadelphia of one was an increase the other had nine and there is absolutely no statistical impact on employment. If anything employment increased. So in my previous presentation i showed you that nasty graph of all blood dots. That was a compilation of dozens and dozens of minimumwage studies in what they show is there are modest increases of minimumwage 10 or 20 to have virtually no impact on unemployment. I think i will leave that that. Have a bike than next slide of my power point. I have to do it. Sari. Lets talk about the study of what these gentlemen did that triggered minimumwage does not decrease employment even though it shows just the opposite. That same time frame the that ask employers hogmanay before and after . What they found was a 4 reduction of that our. Because one way the employer can react to a minimum wages to cut back on hours so the cost stays the same the and there was another critique that shows of philadelphia fastfood employment already trending downward to princeton is where there were studies so fallen goes down a one goes up you cannot make the judgments but of these studies and talks about unemployment defects what we see is a 5 chance and there has been review of the of literature published between 92 in 2006 and the present show positive effect that is pretty close to the 5 level you would expect. 65 show a negative effect that it goes down. If you tried to look at the best control may be 5 show a negative effect and few if any cases have a positive effect. But beyond this is who loses their job is important when researchers focused on of these skilled groups most likely to be affected by minimum wage the evidence for disappointment defects seem strong even if you dont see of a difference in employment as the whole you do see the disadvantaged of losing their jobs. P of stated assertions that the new minimum Wage Research fails to support that it reduces employment is clearly incorrect. This is the state of the art is i am aware of it to. My colleagues said if we increase the minimum wage we have less reliance on poverty programs but that is not what the data shows. A shows every turn there is a minimumwage increase there is an increase for the Antipoverty Program that would make sense as the most disadvantaged being thrown out of the marketplace. But would like to agree with my esteemed colleague that Bargaining Power is an even they do not have the same power as employers because the regulations keep them from going out to start their own business if the employer treated the employee bad he would go across the street to compete. Right now that is hard because somebody is disadvantaged cannot afford that. We talked about taxicab licenses but they could help people but they cant because they have to be employees because they cannot start their own business so what i was suggesting is minimum wage is not a good way to attack this problem more of what you are looking for. Thank you. [applause] stakes thanks for those comments. The study, but to critique that they had a good play to but also the critique of the critique has found that there result was based on this outline value but they have not taken into each count into account. It was the allies air out liar set proved that result. So anyway, the negative impact on employment accord brings according to labor conference of the evidence is very small. Some of the reasons it is very small is when employers are subjected to a higher minimum wage it shocks them to tighten up the production and process instead of workers taking a a 25 minute break instead of 50 and then make sure they only take 15 minutes breaks. And and mentioned this earlier and also could create efficiency where when workers get our higher minimum wage what my colleagues debate is that reduces turn over a long workers and then the firm realizes they will not just leave there is saw higher incentive for them to train. So this higher incentive they will pay for themselves i am keeping strict track of time and she can respond now or later. We will open it up to questions. Please dont comment add to link and i will give the first question as an example i am from seattle were they just passed 15 minimum wage laws summit question is why do we use the tenth amendment to make it states and local rather than no whole nation onesizefitsall given the different cost of the standard of living . To me that is of great idea i dont think it has to be a federal minimum wage. Economic conditions are different in various areas and why dont we take that into account . I would not be opposed at all. Next question. We will move along. My next question is for just. The statement you made earlier about workers not having equal bargaining with employers. So how do you explain this . I produce product in china. Though one place that you would expect workers would turn minimumwage no unions and unskilled and uneducated but yet i have to pay over 60 percent above the minimum wage to find a lowskilled workers for our factories and every factory that i know of over there is in the same situation because workers refuse to work for anywh