seems this is happening every day during certain periods but we are rushing into the street because there is power in these numbers. >> host: do we know who left@cuecue >> guest: we don't. it was one of the demonstrators, that was a night that was probably a few dozen protesters, wasn't one of the massive nights but i remember seeing that, making a note in my notebook that day that it captured a lot of the feeling i have been seeing and hearing from demonstrators. >> host: what was your experience in ferguson? >> guest: i went to ferguson two days after michael brown had been killed. i was a national reporter for the post covering congress and very different be. i happened to be free. had a bag packed, got back from a trip covering up senate race in michigan and we were having a conversation around the office about see what is going on in missouri, what is the coverage plan. i offered i can call from congressional representatives, maybe they will call for a little investigation committee get a dc scoop and finally an editor said get on the plane. i said sure, why not. get on a plane and went to ferguson, landed on the 11th. what i thought was going to be a few day assignment. i thought i would get some feature story for the weekend and be back for sunday football that weekend at home. instead i stayed in ferguson two or three months, almost full-time, a ferguson bureau. as i was there, on the second or third day, myself and another reporter were arrested during coverage of the protests and we were the first two of what would end it being dozens of reporters who at some point in time were taken into custody by the police and day after day of demonstrations, mass arrests, people arrested indiscriminately, at times the cause, we were the cause of that creating a whirlwind and that became one of the figures of the story. >> host: wesley lowery is our guest. are beginning conversation if you would like to participate, call in, talk with him about some of the issues surrounding ferguson, the black lives matter movement, etc. the racial issues the country has faced in the last couple years. 202-7 number 8-8200. in the east and central time zone 748-8201 for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. is this a black and white issue we are facing or black and blue issue we are facing? >> i think it is both. it is a black and blue issue begotten by our historic black and white issue. we know this is a country that has president obama was describe it was described by an original sin, racial inequity into the fabric of the nation, that is something we spent hundreds of years, some would argue we didn't spent most of the first you doing anything about it, we were happy the way we had it but since then spends time trying to undo that and make up for that but i do think because of that there is a historic relationship between black communities and law enforcement that dates back to the days police officers were slave catchers. there has been a historic relationship. the former chicago police superintendent gave a speech recently where he talked about so many policies, during jim crow or people leading the lynch mobs or enforcing housing or school segregation historically have been police officers. police for all of american history been the face of physical oppression from black and brown americans so sometimes we talk about how we can rebuild the relationship or restore when we need to talk about creating a new relationship because there's never been a good relationship between black american and police. >> host: cleveland, ferguson, baltimore, minneapolis, new york, charleston, we had a black president during that time. is that coincidental or is there a connection? >> i think there is a connection. that cuts in two directions. first it is coincidental in that we have seen unrest and police shootings every year of modern history. this was going on during the clinton era. we might not have been talking about it or covered it as a media the same way but these issues have always existed but i do think the presidency of barack obama activated a level of activism and political anxiety that had not existed prior to him and that works two ways, first in the book i tried to profile activists who come to the forefront and become the face of the protest movement, many had their entry into politics through the election of barack obama. they voted in 2008 for him or 2012 often for the first time. many canvassed for him. i think very often of this idea that we needed to have a black president to understand the limitations of a black president. barack obama was elected on a mandate to change washington, bring us together. we are not black america and white america and hispanic america. this election night speech, he says we are not a collection of blue states and red states, we are the united states. he was incapable himself of bridging this divide and bridging this gap. our politics is divided if not more so. because of that, so many voters especially young black people who had projected onto president obama this hope for a different country, this hope for a different world, where outcomes and experiences would not be defined by race became remarkably frustrated when the process did not come through. the trayvon martin was still dead, we were having conversations about race and ethnicity in colleges and culture, seeing diversity issues in popular culture. i will never forget an activist looking at claire mccaskill, senator from missouri, during a town hall, she was encouraging the protests, encouraging the activism but she said what you need to do is register to vote, turn out, what we often hear in terms of how people are politically engaged, the activist looked at her and said i voted for barack obama twice and michael brown is still dead. this idea that the existence of a black president could not erase the history and reality we live in. >> host: "they can't kill us all: ferguson, baltimore, and a new era in america's racial justice movement" is the name of the book. wesley lowery is our guest, national report with washington post. let's take some calls. let's hear from ryan in arizona. >> caller: thank you, thank you for writing your book and standing up to the people. i am a white american. if i were black in america i would be dead. i have been denied healthcare for preexisting condition, been locked in prison for something that is now legal. i was fired from my job because of the economy. i tried to be the best american i can possibly be and i am suffering other conditions i have been clearly careful in this free country we live in and if we go back to 40 or 50 years ago, 60 years, women were treated poorly with black women, indians, black americans. >> host: we get your point. wesley lowery, is there a larger picture tied into his experience? >> guest: appreciate the call. i am sorry for what like a difficult set of circumstances, americans can empathize with each other. one of the things we have seen the last eight years, these protests movements born out of political frustration beginning with the tea party following the election of barack obama, occupy wall street, resurgence of republican and tea party as they take the senate, black lives matter is born, the movement for black lives. and the juxtaposition, you work within the system and why won't those protesters go vote. i see democratic beauty in protest at the act of protests and the original means of interacting with our government is what this country was founded on and i am surprised by the obama years, the time we are in now and the trump years moving forward have been marked by street activism and street protests. it is a time, the president so eloquently described while he was campaigning. a time when gridlock has suffocated americans. people are frustrated. why isn't the economy more turned around? why wasn't there healthcare? people who voted and feel they have done everything right, many of the people in ferguson, most people living in ferguson had made it out, they had done everything right and still couldn't understand why they were being treated this way or hadn't achieved what they thought was the american dream. ryan's call fits into the east coast we are seeing. >> host: said is calling from st. louis, close to ferguson. >> caller: thank you for writing the book. i have question. in view of the new administration and donald trump being famous or notorious for the central park issue, still acknowledging the men were eventually convicted were very innocent. how do you think they will deal with the administration, with the policing of minority communities and immigrants and what do you think the community needs to do, i have black mail children, white children, i have hispanic children, i have immigrant children all in my extended family and i am afraid for them. >> guest: thanks so much for the college that is in a port in question, something being reported a lot about now. what we see very often at times of unrest, especially between minority communities and police, during the 60s and 50s and 40s, we have a law and order\, the nixon election and 68, the donald trump election in 2016, the obama administration had been very specific and aggressive in using that part of justice to address these issues. with that said, questionable, the obama administration has done more than any presidency in using the permit of justice to investigate the police department, to attempt to provide community police resources, and to require information from police the province, tracking police killings, how many were shot and killed by the police, the federal government does not keep. donald trump on the other hand has stated we don't believe the federal government should require local debarment to report this data, we don't want to harass them for this, he stated many times he wants to restore more law and order. he said in a questionnaire to the international association of chiefs of police he wants to rebuild the relationship between the federal government and local police department which sounds to most observers that he wants to be less critical of local police and the obama administration has been, what we know about the potential new attorney general jeff sessions, senator jeff sessions, is he also has had a law and order streak. it seems very unlikely many of the steps taken through the obama years to reform local policing will be continued. i think what that most likely means is for people who want to see change in local police there is going to be a need to work at a local level because the federal government cavalry will not be coming in for the next four years. >> host: report on police shootings, is available on the website? what would be the best place to find it? it was a pretty covering the report? >> guest: the easiest way would be to google washington post fatal force which was the name of the product. it is on the site. war washington post police shooting database, what we have done, we are working on this, we have for two using real-time come to attract fatal police shooting, we track 990 of them last year, real-time searchable database, you can see each one. don't know what the numbers for this year so far but the same fatal number of fatal police shootings, all the data and information is available in real-time online. >> host: "they can't kill us all: ferguson, baltimore, and a new era in america's racial justice movement" has a point of view, is it difficult for you as a reporter for the post to put your point of view in this book? >> guest: sometimes. i believe in transparency and honesty and fairness. those things are most important. what was difficult in covering the story, it wasn't even difficult but one thing present in covering this story was at one point i became part of it, reluctantly, wasn't happy about it but also that i was a young black man writing often about the deaths of young black men or old black men looked like my father or young black women and sometimes we lie to ourselves when we believe there is some type of objective neutral that exists. as reporters and journalists we all bring our life experiences into the stories we cover, whether that -- what stories we believe are worthy of our coverage or not, how hard we work to get the extra interview or houston pathetically we frame someone. it is important to acknowledge who we are and it helps us tell the story more the story more accurately. >> host: from "they can't kill us all: ferguson, baltimore, and a new era in america's racial justice movement" between january and august 2015, 24 unarmed black people have been shot and killed by police while black men and women make up just 12% of the nation's population, they accounted for nearly 25% of those who were being shot and killed by the police. can in michigan, you are on with wesley baltimore, and a new era in america's racial justice movement". >> i take a different view of all of this. why are young black men constantly involved with the police in terms of police altercations which i go back to the rodney king affair. i remember on the 10th anniversary of the rodney king incident they interviewed rodney king and here is what he admitted. he said i was on parole at the time and i knew my only chance was to put up a fight which is what he did. by putting up a fight he became the victim whereas he was a parole arm driver at the time of the event and he knew he would go to jail unless he put up a right. why are there so many altercations and why do people arrest -- resist arrest when they could settle their issues when they get into the courtroom? >> host: let's hear from wesley lowery. >> guest: i pretty the question and it is a fair question, something i get a lot from readers and people who are writing articles. why is there so much scrutiny of the police and the scrutiny of the criminals? i think there is a fair point to be made about that. obviously i don't think people should be resisting arrest or fighting with police officers, certainly not killing police officers. we have seen many cases of that. it is hard, but there is something to be said for undoing the police legitimacy and one of the reasons we followed the law when talking about the criminal justice system, only work if the majority of people follow the law. there are far fewer police officers than there are citizens. if we all decide to rob a bank that would not be enough police to catch us. when seen as legitimate, most people see a deterrent, and a lot of things breakdown legitimacy in the community of law enforcement, historical reality, the fact there has never been a positive relationship between police and black and brown communities. ongoing questions, policies that people see as discriminatory, the idea of harassment, homicide clearance rates, the idea that in many of these communities, when people need the police, police are unable to solve a crime. all those things that time can contribute to a delegitimizing of police department and police officers that likely leads to people being less likely to comply with officers was the other thing worth noting is when we analyze these incidents whether it is running king or michael brown or sandra land or whichever you would like to analyze there are fair questions to be asked. holding a police officer to a different standard than we hold, and any boot to the face of rodney king or walter scott was done in the name of the taxpayers. we need to require a certain accountability and different standard than we do someone breaking a law. >> host: ray is calling in from texas. >> caller: mister riley has a myopic view. the problem with black lives matter movement is there are more white people killed by police than black and all the black people that are attacking police officers or attacking somebody else and get killed just -- justifiably with all the others that shouldn't have gotten killed. the white people would join up with you and have a movement to deter some of this. we have all had policeman that have not done right and treated us wrong. far more often the black people are resisting arrest, running from the police, fighting the police. >> host: i think we got the point. wesley lowery. >> guest: appreciate the college that is another point i hear very often and you are right. one thing we know from our study of the washington post is before we did this piece in the guardian newspaper, did a similar project, we literally didn't know who was being killed by the police, how often or at what rate. majority of people shot and killed by police officers are white. majority of the united states of america are also white. it is one reason is important to look at percentage of population. black men, 6% of the population yet 24% of the people being shot and killed by the police speaks to the disparity. the point you make is an interesting one and people make very often, the idea is it just an issue of race? is it more broadly a police issue? what role police should be playing in our society broadly? one thing i will say is we have run the numbers, looked at the precipitating incidence of fatal police shootings, black men and black women are not likely to be violent or attacking an officer when they are killed, no more likely than a white person but a white person shot and killed by the police is more likely to have been armed that a black person shot and killed by the police which speaks to the idea of is there an influx of bias. are black people being viewed more sinister early or more violent inherently than white people? is that type of bias seeping into the use of fatal force? an open question the researchers are looking at and continuing to >> host: "they can't kill us all: ferguson, baltimore, and a new era in america's racial justice movement" is the name of the book. the author is washington post reporter wesley lowery and again, the washington post website if people want to see the report they put together they can google or search washington post fatal force. >> guest: or police shooting database. >> we are showing it to our viewers as we speak right now. wesley lowery, thank you for coming on booktv. >> here is a look at some of the staff picks from the prairie lights bookstore in iowa city, iowa. and notes from no man's land, national book critics circle award winner examines race in america through a series of essays. that is some of the staff picks from prairie lights bookstore in iowa city, iowa. many of these authors have appeared on booktv. you can watch them on our website, booktv.org. >> i am here with a 19, author of "inga," kennedy's great love, hitler's perfect beauty. who was inga? >> miss denmark of 1931 but she was much more than that. she was an actress, ballerina, concert pianist, anthropologist, explorer, washington columnist, hollywood gossip columnist, screenwriter for mgm. mostly she was the great love of john f. kennedy's life and they desperately wanted to marry each other. it is not a fling, it was a romance whether or two problems, one, she was a suspected nazi spy and was still married to her second husband. >> host: based on your research do you believe that is an accurate accusation of her being a suspected nazi spy? >> guest: there is a 1200 page fbi file and i would say ultimately it was concluded she was not a spy. interestingly for several months she was consider the prime suspect, the key to the entire not the espionage network in the united states all based on circumstantial evidence. interestingly j edgar hoover himself was convinced inga was not a spy. president roosevelt intervened and directed him to continue the observation and covert surveillance and have her phone, it was a remarkable thing. >> host: you are the author of two other books, kennedy and reagan, why their legacies and/or and almost president, the men who lost the race the change the nation. what do you think the legacy will be of president obama's administration and how do you think the past election cycle has affected the united states? >> guest: president obama's legacy will be turned term over coming years we do have our first african american president his legacy is pretty secure and that regarding the historical figure. the most important thing he did was what he did following the great financial crisis of 2008-2009. i think most americans are not aware how close we came not really to having a great recession but a great depression. i think history will be kind to him on that was the other great accompaniment of his presidency was probably obamacare and the question is is that steppingstones whether healthcare reform people will view as a pivotal moment building on medicare and moving on to a single-payer health system or will he get repealed? if it is going to get repealed by the republicans maybe his legacy will be less then it would be right now but only time will tell. hard to tell with presidencies which harry truman left office is one of the most unpopular politicians in america and 20 years later was considered one of our great presidents. time will tell what his legacy is. obviously historically significant figure and we will see how that goes. >> in terms of past election cycle how do you think it affected america? >> that will be time will tell. mister trump is unlike everybody we have ever had in the white house, every other previous president has either held elected office before or they have been a general in our army. mister trump has been neither. he is a different type of president with a different kind of background. hard to say what is going to happen. i wrote about losing president of candidates and their impact on american history so the question is what will mrs. clinton's legacy be in american history? like president obama because she's the first woman to be nominee of a major party, already historically significant, the question is what did her campaign do? it is an open question. if she leads to trump in an era of america which is good or bad, people will say that was very important that her campaign with not successful and about president trump to come to office. did she change the democratic party? hard to say. he may have been the last centrist democrat for a while, democrat look to move a little bit to the left under bernie sanders's influence that these things can't be told immediately. historians need time to get some perspective. losing presidential candidate, barry goldwater and george mcgovern being two, complete disasters, from the perspective of 50 years later barry goldwater transform the republican party and george mcgovern transform the democratic party. it will take several decades to know how mrs. clinton's legacy and president trump's. >> host: what was it that sparked your interest in this topic and made you want to write "inga"? >> guest: an unbelievable story. straight from an alfred hitchcock movie in the 1930s with the great intensifies and espionage and glamorous women and femme fatales and all sorts of things. it is a corner of the history of president kennedy's presidency most people are not a lawyer with. of the book argued inga was in many ways singularly responsible for john kennedy becoming president as anybody. we think of john kennedy as handsome, witty, urbane man destined to be present but he was a young officer in the office of naval intelligence, he was skinny, gawky, disheveled and had a terrible inferiority complex compared to his older brother joe junior and inga did a number of things for president kenny, she had been around the world, she knew the president of france, she knew the king and queen of denmark and convinced john kennedy had everything it took to be president and was superior to his brother, she encouraged jack kennedy to go to his father and tell him what he wanted to be in life, the kennedy family didn't know jack kennedy at the time had any political aspirations and any political talent and inga managed to help him stand up to his father and get the support he would later need to become president. .. >> would be a disaster for his career. when he sat down with a reporter named inga, and a template for the future stories pt-109 that portrayed him as a hero and those are all the way up until his run to the white house. >> this is book tv on c-span 2, television for serious readers. here is our prime time lineup for christmas eve. tonight 7:15 p.m. eastern, the former chandelier cleaner. and joseph beck draws parallels between his father's life and the life of fictional attorney atticus finch. at 9:00, john simpson talks about his time as the former editor of the oxford english dictionary. book afterwards, 10 p.m. eastern, new farming