Nonpaid commercial, talking about medicare in the future we have an event coming up next week where we will have a discussion. If you want to talk about it come see me. Thank you for being here. [applause] professor klar, how was the discussion on the panel . Wish it had been longer. What caught your ear . How engaged the audience is and the future of the elections now. A lot of people are worried about loosing a grip. You talk about voters going under cut. What do you mean . The fast majority of independents prefer one of the two. We have known this in political skiens for a long time. We find wanting to call one independent comes from the negative stigma associated with the party. Americans who prefer democrats and rbs are ashamed to be associated with their party and tell neighbors and friends they are independent. And they are not willing to to do any activities that might stray from partnership and this hurts the candidates they secretly support. It is a big problem. Host the last question the woman said when are the parties going to realize it is their problem not ours. Guest we have reached what, i think, could be a turning point. We have more independents than democrats or republicans and more than we have had in the centuries of history of polling. Oh the parties should come around soon. The biggest red flag is outsider candidates are achieving such unprecedented success in this election. Host if you could identify one issue with the democrats and one issue for the republicans that is affecting peoples leaving the parties what are those . Guest i think it is a tone. I think it is the fact the democrats and republicans, the way we stheem on television or my media, are negative. It is a lot of aggression. And neither republicans or democrats want to be associated with that. Host here in arizona what is the situation . Guest independents are the Second Largest Group in the population. And in the Gubernatorial Election both were trying to cast themselves as the independent. Host lets hear from viewers. Bernie in new york city is on the line. Caller good evening. Professor, first, i am a republican who never voted democrat. I will not vote for trump under any circumstances. I have a memory of 1933 in germany. 1927 in germany. And this is what it is starting to look like. The communist chasing the nazis. And the other thing i want to suggest about taking large money and corrupt money out of politics. There is no reelections, examine the terms for house of senate and presidency, and no reelections. It takes all of the money out of politics. Even if someone is running for a position and they a bank decides to give them a lot of money there is no guarantee they will live up to their expectations because they know there is no real election so they could double cross them. I wonder if that has been thought of. Thank you. Host thank you, bernie. Guest the points you are hitting on is the huge amounts of money in politics and it is what is fueling the corporate outsi outsi outsiders in both parties. There are people having a hard time choosing between Bernie Sanders and donald trump. That is because the appeal is similar; the rejection of the politics and huge amounts of money. Host did the parties in a sense squander their positions . Guest in what sense . I think they might be taking advantage of this. Party identification is an incredibly powerful thing. The caller said he was a republican his whole life. It is unusual to swip switch parties. The parties may be taking advantage of that. Host brad in oklahoma city. Hi, brad. Caller good afternoon, steve. Thank you very much. Before i was in the u. S. Army and went to vietnam and was very much a conservative when i came back i was very much a liberal. I dont believe there are any independents. They are just people who dont want to identify. Thank you. Guest i completely agree with what you are speculating about the American Population and it is what we are finding. The vast majority of the independents to prefer one of the parties and are ashamed with that party. It as a problem because these people wont do the things parties need to win. Host such as . Guest telling friends to vote, putting up a yard sign, if you are ashamed of both candidates you are not doing any favors. Host has there been an effort from acti activist on bo sides to shame the parties . Guest activist tend to be more educated and more extreme. So the words and actions that activist are taking are not necessarily persuasive for the average american in either party. Host professor klar, did the citiz citizens uniteded case contribute to the down fall of the parties opening up money from other sources . Guest yeah, sure. One of the problems with the case is there is an increase in advertisement and the Media Coverage of candidates. Over time, campaign coverage, advertisements have become negative and this helps to fuel the turn toward independents. When americans read about negativity in politics they are more likely to call themselves ipd independents. Host jerry is in florida. Go ahead. Caller i thoroughly enjoy the coverage. What i like the most is when you mention you need to bring the issues to the public through the media. I have turned off the tv and stopped watching, even cspan, i happen to be watching cspan2 tonight and pleased to find you had this festival going on with this discussion. I am a democrat and i have volunteered in many electrions and campaigns. I dont want a sign in my yard or volunteer anymore because it doesnt do any good. You waste your time. I am more leaning toward independent. The other thing i like is i think you should have more of these discussions on tv rather than debates. The debates dont do anything. It is like a reality show. People are sick and tired of it. Guest yeah, thanks for that comment. One thing we did in the course of our research is a content analysis of the language that is used during president ial debates. We didnt include this year but we found every year the language unprecedentedal debates becomes increasingly negative. We had transcripts read from the president ial debates and they became more likely to say they are independent. I think the media gets blamed in the discussion and that is certainly not unfounded. They are showing negative coverage of candidates but the candidates have a role to play. The media are not making it up. The candidates are using negative rhetoric. Host when did the decline in Party Membership begin . Guest independents have been increasing over time but there has been a massive explosion over the last decade. It has grown in recent history. Host next call from miguel in california. Good afternoon. Caller i am an independent but i generally vote democrat. I am an independent because i dont think you can paint everybody with one brush or two in this case. Also, i dont want to be a part of larger Political Campaign that may not reflect all of my views. Do you think it is time for another party or should we get behind the two parties we have now. Host what do you think, miguel . Caller is it time start considering having a new party . Or should we, you know, try to get around the Current Party we have. Host do you think that should happen . Caller i think it might be time start to look to new alternatives or having new campaigns because a big part of the reason many people are independents is because they dont want to be associated with the past history of these campaigns. Host thank you, sir. Guest Bernie Sanders is having a Successful Campaign and he is an independent. But independent candidates dont usually do as well as one would expect given how many independents are in the electorate and that is because americans tend to be loyal to their party. Candidates like Bernie Sanders and donald trump are allowing people to vote for the same party but allow them to feel look they are rejecting the establishment. I dont predict any successful independent runs because voters tend to be loyal to the party they have always voted for. Host what he was saying about a third party. You dont see that happening . Guest given the loyalty. Miguel said himself he is an independent but votes democrat. It is hard to get people to pull away. Host next call is from dorris in glover beach, california. Caller glad to speak with you. I wanted to address what she said about people being ashamed to identify with natheir party. I think with the violence there is a fear factor as well. If there are activist there causing you violence and keeping you away you tend to not go. And how is a person supposed to present what they have to present and people who have traveled to hear him and they are afraid to go in . Or afraid when they leave they may be attacked . I know people are blaming donald trump a lot but donald trump didnt cause those 200 people to come in who wanted to make trouble. That was their choice. I also saw on the television the black man who had grabbed the microphone and would not let it go as the police were trying to get him off the stage. So i think that our democracy is suffering by some of the things like the black lives matter who are calling for death to police and want to go in to disrupt and keep people from hearing the candidates. What was your thinking on that . Host dorris, is donald trump your candidate right now . Guest no, not right now. Host who is your candidate . Caller i would like to hear candidates what they have to say. If people want to go hear them i think it is wrong for people to massively try to keep people from going in and hearing them or who shout them down. If they dont agree, let them protest outside. But to infiltrate and cause it so people who want to be involved cant is not our democracy in action in anyway i am proud of. Guest you raise a good point and that is most americans prefer independents rather to their own party. Most would rather have an independent at work than someone from their own party. Americans are afraid to associate with members of their own party because they fear aggression and i think that is a concern among americans who in fact prefer independents to their fellow party members. Host next call is from sue in new auburn, iowa. Caller my question has to do with the independents. As women are beginning to want to now go and register and there has to be this identification card. If a man goes in, he can immediately get an identification card. If a woman goes in to get a registration card, if she is married, has her husband, she has to show her birth certificate, her marriage certificate, and that is from the state where they were married, before she is given her identification card. Is that not stepping the women down so they are not able to get theirs . This happened to me in 2012 in california because my husband got this right away. I didnt know i had to have an identification card. When i found it out i couldnt get my card in time to vote. Host have you heard anything like that . Guest sure. That is actually not an issue i myself am familiar with. What you are mentioning is the effort to identify with a party is substantial and it does drive people away from partisanship all together. There is so much effort that has to be put forth to register and vote and that can be a barrier. Host is there something the parties can do to reverse this trend . Guest i think they will have to drop the rallying of the base and appealing oo the most extreme members of the party to come out during the primary to vote. It drives away a lot of people who are not that extreme. These people are ultimately identifying as independents and refraining from a lot of the activities that the parties need. Host that said, you are not going to win a primary that way. Guest that is true. Although if they all tone down the rhetoric it will no longer be the race to the extreme. The parties have to realize the long term damage is not worth it. Host that said, do you think you can get all of the candidates to agree to tat . Guest it is hard to say what the future holds but this election a turning point. Both parties have seen the establishment lost the grip on the voters. Clinton was taken by surprise by the lure of Bernie Sanders and the Republican Party is going through the same thing with donald trump and all of these out sider candidates who received unprecedented levels of support. Host next call for professor klar. Debra, go ahead. Caller thank you very much. And thank you have letting me make this call. I have run across the problem that sue ran across from several women who have, you know, a marriage license that they have had to prove. That is discrimination against women. I am surprised you havent heard of it. But you have to get around to be around normal people, you know, to do that and the every day scene. But my question is i went to vote here in pratville, alabama, right next to montgomery, the capitol, and there was no independent party. They looked at me with a smear and said no, there is no way to vote for an independent. To vote independent. It is democrat or republican. Period. Paragraph. Host and that doesnt work for you . Guest no, that does not work for me. I want my choice. I dont want to vote a straight ticket line. I want to vote the person not the party. Host where are the independents going . Guest 80 lean toward one party meaning they prefer that party and will vote for them. 6 of republicans voted for obama. Just 6 . 7 of independents who call themselves voted for republicans voted for obama. Same on the democratic side. 4 voted for romney and 4 of independents who lean toward the democrats voted for romney. So the vast majority vote for the same party they did. Host often they say about the Supreme Court the arguments are directed toward Justice Kennedy because he is the swing vote. In the general election are the arguments adjusted for this one sliver of independent voter . Guest the media call the independents the most coveted piece of the election but the rhetoric is toward the extreme people because they are likely to go to the phone banks, make calls, put up the yard sign. Unless the moderate voters are willing to participate in activities like that the candidate is not going to speak to them. Host steve in orlando is next up. Steve, go ahead with your question. Caller hi, guys. How are you . Guest good. Thank you. Caller my question is, if you could comment, tell me the difference, there is a lot of hatred toward donald trump and i am a republican but lean toward more marco rubio. But what i find curious is that there is so much hatred toward donald trump over what he is saying and part of the reason people like trump is because they believe he is telling the truth whether you want to hear the truth. But why is their hatred for the other politicians and i hate using the word hate for like a Bernie Sanders where you know they are not telling the truth. There is not going to be Free College Tuition in our country. There is not going to be Free Health Care for everybody. But they say that. It is pick your poison. They are going to lie to you like most politicians including our current president. Or you have the guy over here that is telling what he believes is the truth whether you like what he is saying or not. Why isnt their hatred for everybody else . This type of hatred . Why isnt black lives matter and other organizations lined up outside of Bernie Sanders and marco rubios and Hillary Clintons rally . Why focus on trump because people dont want to hear outloud what people say behind closed doors . Guest i think what you are expre expressing is a common perspective among all voters which is disdain for both the democrats and the republicans. You are sort of this belief that any of the candidates are going to do what they say is driving a lot of what we are seeing people not wanting to associate any party. All candidates are receiving a lot of negativity. The media is focused exclusively on donald trump because i think it is better for the ratings. But the disdain for all parties is something so Many Americans are feeling and that is why we are seeing so many people calling themselves independent these days. Host michael in wilmington, north carolina. Go ahead. Caller hi, guys. Your show has been interesting tonight. My question is a simple one. Looking back over the last 2030 years every time a group has come up to challenge the status quo and establishment it appears to me the establishment d demonizes that group. As recently as the tea party, even the republican establishment demonized the tea party and referred to them as racist, and the lower class and not educated and the rest of that. How do you see the similarity between what the establishment did the tea party and now what they are doing to donald trump . Host before we let you go, michael, tell us about your own political affiliation or feeling . Caller i wrote a poplar book on amazon called rules for conservatives so i am a conservative. As far as who i am backing in this particular case, originally it was marco rubio. And now i found myself more backing donald trump simply because he has been so badly demonized by the establishment i think it is time to kick out the establishme establishment. Host thank you, sir. Guest i appreciate how michael is drawing on the longterm trend. The rise of donald trump and Bernie Sanders as the antiestablishment candidates is really a phenomena we have been seeing going on for a long time. If you recall the 2008 election is the what led to barack obama. Barack obama was the antiestablishment candidate and sarah palin was outside of the system. What we are seeing now is an extension of what we have been seeing for a decade and that is candidates are capitalizing off this antiestablishment feeling americans have. Host he talked about the establishment demonizing the tea party or maybe another group. Guest the establishment does and should see a huge threat in these people. The fact is the antiestablishment candidates are winning and have been for a decade. So the fact we see the establishment reacting negativeinegativ negatively to that shows how threatened they are. Host what about the Congress Levels . Guest here in arizona, the Gubernatorial Race was run between two partisan candidates who tried to pretend they were independents. We saw, for example, congress men and womens websites, incumbants are not Advertising Party affilations. Host professor klar, is the author of independent politics how american disdain for parties leads to political inaction and she has been our guest here on booktv. When i tune into it on the weekend it is authors sharing new releases. Watching the nonfiction authors on booktv is the best television for serious readers. On cspan they can have a longer conversation and dive in the subject. Booktv weekends bring you author after author and spotlight the work of fascinating people. I love booktv and i am a cspan fan. Here is a look at books being published this week. In the envoy, it contributions as u. S. Ambassador to afghanistan, iraq and to the u. N. And natalie more reports on racial segregation in chicago in the south side. In John Quincy Adams we look at the life of americans sixth president. And also being released this week is the great departure in
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