Transcripts For CSPAN2 Michael Phelps Testifies On Doping In

the u.s. anti-dopin anti-dopinge world anti-doping agency ando tn international olympic committee. stick the subcommittee convenes to examine the current state of the system that challenges faces in areas for reform. on the heels of the summer games when less than a year away from winter games, there's no better time to value progress made thus far and performed in russia at the doping system. how fitting where holding this hearing on for every 28, as with the greatest olympic athlete of all times wh was 128 metals befe us today. won i wasn't referring to you, mr. griffis. i was referring to michael phelps. every two years nations areeri filled with excitement and pride is a cheer on their -- summer and winter games.as they long-standing tradition thatir should not be tarnished by those that choose to cheat. ultimately i hope this hearing helps to highlight ways in which we can strengthen clean competition to restore public confidence in international sports. within the at the doping committee there are concerns regarding organizational structure and the chri criticism crates and a permit where individuals are both policing of promoting sport. topics of interest in from the composition of the world promo anti-doping agency senior leadership coexists. as at the doping decision-makers often simultaneously hold a policymaking position within aon sports organization. such conflicts cannot both real and perceived effects on the rigorous investigations of possible violations as well as of the enforcement of anti-doping measures.s several anti-doping experts have publicly stated that wada lacks sufficient independence from sport itself. recent proposals have suggested removing sports organizations from structures to improve independence and operations. today we want to evaluate those concerns and discuss the proposed reforms. for the dates be an established decision-making process and by when it comes investigation and sanctions. the summer games and review the book was passed multiple times between the international olympic committee, vanessa at the doping organizations and international sports federatione as to where and who was inan charge of making the decisions and whether not athletes would be allowed to participate in the summer games. or sanctions and bands of athletes and coaches and at the dopingtia laboratories vary from short-term to lifetime.et but that does not appear to be a clear set of guidelines to aid the appropriate organizationy instead and opposing consistent penalties. we need to ensure that the system is fair, punishment is appropriate, determine athletes knowingly cheated. the general public depends on the governing bodies of internationals of force cheated. the general public depend oz on the governing bodies of to accepted norm, and this is particularly important message for our youth. additionally, recent events highlight the need to examine potential improvements with respect to utilizing athletes as partners in the anti-doping effort as well as whistle-blower protections. there will always be athletes or institutions that dope in an attempt to gain an unfair competitive advantage. athletes and whistle-blowers are often the first to see the problems at the ground level and are critical to identify and investigate violations. therefore it bears questioning whether the current system does enough to encourage, embrace and protect those fighting for clean sport. while many meetings have occurred since the rio games, challenges remain and progress toward meaningful reform remains unclear. this hearing provides an opportunity to learn from past mistakes, to examine opportunities to move forward in a way that will improve the international anti-doping system so that is effective there and nimble for the sake of athletes clean sport and integrity of the international competition using the olympic games. finally, some ask why congress is doing a hearing on sports rules, and it is because it is a matter of multibillion dollar sports economy, maybe. in part it may be that. but for the most part, i believe, that it is very important we send the right message to the youth and future athletes of the world, that cheating is not acceptable on any level, economy, trade or in sports. we welcome our all-star panel of witnesses today. your appearance before this subcommittee is vital for us to have an honest discussion. with key decisionmakers, we're also excited to have mr. phelps and mr. nelson with us today to share the athletes perspective. these gentlemen compete at the highest level and invaluable insights into the problems and challenges that face the current system and unique perspective on improvements that can be made. i would like to thank our witnesses for appearing today and look forward to an informative discussion. now i yield five minutes to miss degette. >> another doping scandal has shaken the world, a scheme to circumvent doping controls relied on by the global sports community to ensure clean sport. after unfortunate delays in investigating serious claims made by courageous whistle-blowers, the world anti-doping agency or wada eventually launched investigations into allegations that russia was systematically involved in doping. in july, and december of last year, professor richard mclaren, the person commissioned by wada as the independent expert tasked with looking into these allegations released his findings. what wada's independent investigations reported was a systematic effort by russia to help its athletes both dope and circumvent doping controls. the doping was widespread according to wada's report. implicating the london olympic games, sochi olympic games, the iaaf world championships, and many other international events. frankly, we'll probably never know the full extent of the cheating and who benefited as many as 1,000 russian athletes across at least 30 sports may have benefitted from this effort according to wada's investigation. wada's inquiry also found that the very agencies created to police sport from doping including the russian national anti-doping agency were itself having -- helping to cheat. even russia's federal security service or fsb played a role. russia's behavior raises troubling questions about how the global sports community should sanction doping violators and whether they are actually committed to that fact. for example, because wada's investigative findings were made weeks before the start of rio games, confusion surfaced about russia -- whether russia should collectively be banned from rio. wada recommended to the ioc that it prohibit the entire russian delegation from participating. but rather than implement that recommendation, the ioc punted that decision to the international sports federations who were not all equipped to take on that sudden task. in the end, what ensued was a muddled process some viewed as sending a very, very weak message to the cheaters. even today, i'm frankly not sure whose job it was to hold russia accountable for the events conveyed in wada's investigation. just last month, for example, several national anti-doping organizations met in dublin and petitioned that russia be banned from hosting existing and future international sporting events, until the country comes back into compliance with wada's recommendations. but what if anything will happen to those recommendations? i understand the ioc has created two commissions to explore the findings of wada's independent investigation. well, i support due process when it comes to athletes possibly implicated in the investigations. i believe there is enough evidence reported in wada's investigations to warrant a strong message from the ioc. if you cheat, you do not play. of course, wada's findings also raised concerns about wada itself. how did this cheating scheme persist for so long undetected, for example? is wada organized to catch cheating going forward? does it have sufficient resources to police sport and prevent such a conspiracy from happening again? following the russian revelations, the number of anti-doping organizations met in copenhagen late last year and put forth some recommendations that could enhance wada's ability to keep sports clean. these recommendations include addressing certain conflicts of interest within wada, and clarifying the agency's authority to investigate doping and sanction violators. it is unclear what has happened to these recommendations, but i do believe that they may be a possible blueprint in moving forward. i also believe we have to examine whether wada has the resources to do the job. as i said before, wada's entire budget is a mere $30 million. and the u.s., which is the largest contributor, provides a mere $2 million. the mclaren investigation alone will cost $2 million. so clearly we need investigation into this. i want to welcome our witnesses, in particular our two athletes who are here, mr. nelson and mr. phelps. i think your perspective will really help us. i also think we should thank wada itself, including richard pound and richard mclaren, for their work. and especially want to commend mr. tygart and usada for the tireless work in this investigation. it is an unfortunate set of events that forced us into this room today, but ultimately i think this panel, this congress, and the international sports community need to realize when dealing with russia, and its approach to ensuring clean international competitions, the honor system is simply not going to be enough. and i yield back. >> now recognize the chairman of the full committee, mr. walden from oregon for five minutes. >> i want to welcome all of our witnesses and olympians, thank you for being here to help us better understand what is going on in this situation. for centuries athletes, cultures, nations, have been brought together by the spirit of competition. from the slopes of olympus to the stands of oxen stadium, home of the oregon ducks, people from all walks of life have gathered to pursue and celebrate athletic achievement. we relish with anticipation the possibility of witnessing the impossible. we celebrate the thrill of victory and the agonize in defeat. whether through your own pursuits or those of others, i suspect everyone in this room knows the emotion, collective experience and beauty of sport. nothing embodies the spirit and potential of sport more than the olympic games. it is the hallmark of international competition, uniting people from around the world, regardless of social, political or religious differences. in celebration of our greatest athletes, it envelops national pride at the highest degree. there is a lot of truth to that message, but we also cannot be blind to reality. athletes and nations compete to win. they do not invest countless hours training to lose. they sacrifice for success and their victories are rewarded. this is why for centuries athletes have sought performance enhancing substances to gain an advantage on the competition. greek olympians and roman gladiators used herbs and wine and other products to get an edge on their opponents. the early 1900s, mixtures of heroin, cocaine and other substances became prevalent among athletes. over time, following the introduction of anti-doping testing of the olympics in the 1970s, the drugs have become more sophisticated and cheaters more creative. despite improvements in global anti-doping efforts at the turn of the century with the establishment of the world anti-doping agency, wada, the fight for clean sport remains an uphill battle. the temptation to cheat will always be present to those looking for a short cut. recent events, however, revealed a far more startling and a difficult challenge. thanks to the courage, tenacity of whistle-blowers, of journalists, and others, we were exposed to a level of deception and cheating that felt more look a movie script than reality of international sport. it was not a case of individual athletes looking for an edge, this was a tale of nation states sponsored doping. hundreds of athletes knowingly or unknowingly became part of a widespread campaign to enhance performance, alter test results, and evade detection by international anti-doping authorities. despite the shocking allegations, later bolstered by a series of independent commissions and reports, the response from the respective governing bodies of international sport has become a hodgepodge of indecisive and inconsistent actions. so what went wrong? it is one thing for an individual to beat the system, how could such a massive program go undetected for so long. what has the response been? it has been a quagmire. clearly these events point to larger challenges in international anti-doping efforts. that's why we're here today. to learn from the past, in pursuit of a better future for clean sport. we'll always be those who seek to gain an advantage, personal financial motivations are undeniable, the opportunities afforded by scientific innovation too tempting. the challenge is daunting and may never be totally solved. that is not an excuse for inaction. we can and must do better, even if that requires some difficult and frankly some uncomfortable reforms. success in sport is not achieved sitting on the sideline. waiting for others to act, it requires leadership, teamwork and most of all it requires dedication as our athletes have clearly shown. the millions of clean athletes around the world who push the limits of physical and mental exhaustion, who sacrifice so much, don't they deserve a similar commitment from those responsible for protecting the integrity of their sport? i believe they do. that's why we're here today from hear from all of you. thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back the balance of my time. >> i now recognize frank pallone of new jersey for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to begin by thanking our witnesses today for their ongoing commitment to the integrity of competitive sports. i especially want to thank our olympic athletes who have faced circumstances outside of their control when it comes to doping within their individual sport. i would like to single out travis tygart and the united states anti-doping agency who fought for those athletes demanding drug free competition. in july of last year, several of us on the committee sent a letter to the president of the international olympic committee expressing our strong interest in supporting efforts to ensure the integrity of sports. when we wrote that letter, the world anti-doping agency had begun releasing some of its findings as to whether russia had engaged. agencies responsible for policing sport had actually helped athletes dope, even the russian federal security service or fsb had played a role in this conspiracy according to wada's investigation. upon the release of those findings, wada recommended to the international olympic committee that it ban russia and russian athletes from participation in the 2016 rio games. however, the ioc delegated that decision to the international sports federations organizations that may or may not have had the independence and resources to undertake such a task. and some critics believe the ioc's lack of decisiveness affected the role and perceived authority of anti-doping agencies. so even today it remains unclear that what sanctions the ioc and other sports related organizations can or will take, in response to wada's independent investigation. collectively these organizations must take decisive action. they must send an unambiguous message they will punish doping and cheaters will no longer be rewarded for creating an unfair advantage over clean athletes. i think we're at a crossroads now, mr. chairman, how best to prevent and police doping in sport. wada's independent investigation raises serious concerns about the agencies responsible for policing doping including the ability to sanction athletes, institutions, even countries that conspire to violate the world anti-doping code. despite these challenges, there are some hopeful signs of reforming the anti-doping regulatory system. in particular, i'm encouraged by the recommendation made by a group of national anti-doping agency or nados that strengthen the role as a global regulator in the doping fight. the group wants to ensure that wada has the authority to investigate suspected doping violations. they also want to provide wada additional resources so it can develop better anti-doping monitoring systems. the group of agencies also recommended removing conflicts of interest in wada's governing structure and developing a program to protect whistle-blowers who may wish to bring doepg vping violations fo. we all care about the international sport community, but the integrity of the international community will continue to be questioned until an effective anti-doping system is in place. so, again, i want to thank our witnesses for attending this hearing, so we can identify what actions are noded mo edneeded m forward to build a better anti-doping system. and making real change to our anti-doping institutions based on those findings is something we must do for the athletes and the integrity of international sport. >> i ask unanimous consent that the members opening statements be introduced into the record. i would now like to introduce our all-star panel of witnesses. first, we welcome mr. adam nelson, american shot putter and olympic gold medalist. three time olympian and six time world championship team member, mr. nelson is currently the president of the track and field athletes association, many of us know mr. nelson was never properly awarded his medal for his olympic achievements. i'd like to take a moment to congratulate mr. nelson on his olympic gold medal, xhened for pursuing his achievements in the spirit of clean and fair sport. it is a shame it had to happen in a food court at an airport. [ applause ] next, we're honored to have with us today mr. michael phelps, mr. phelps the most decorated olympian of all time, winning 28 medals, including 23 gold medals over the course of five olympic games. both during and after his olympic career, mr. phelps has been a strong and outspoken advocate for clean sport. next, we want to welcome mr. travis tygart, chief executive officer for the united states anti-doping agency. 15 years of experience working at usada, in various leadership roles, he works closely with the usada board of directors to carry out the organization's mission of preserving the integrity of competition, inspiring to sport and protecting the rights of u.s. athletes. now, we also welcome mr. rob koehler, deputy director general of the world anti-doping agency. he comes to us with almost two decades of experience working in the anti-doping field at wada and the canadian center for ethics and sports. in his role as deputy director general at wada, mr. koehler is responsible for the oversight of all u.s. anti-doping organizations and global anti-doping education initiatives. lastly, we welcome dr. richard budgett, medical and scientific director for the international olympic committee. in this capacity, dr. budgett is responsible for ensuring that the organizing committees of each edition of the olympic games deliver excellent medical and doping control services, working closely with the world anti-doping agencies. thank you to all our witnesses for being here today and par taking in an informative and insightful discussion of this important international issue. you're all aware this committee in whole -- is holding an investigating hearing and has had the practice of taking testimony under oath. do any of you object to giving testimony under oath? seeing no objections, the chair advises you under the rules of the house and the committee, you're entitled to be advised by counsel. do any of you desire to be advised by counsel during your testimony today? seeing none, in that case, will you all rise, raise your right hand, i'll swear you in. do you swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? thank you. all the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. you're now under oath and subject to the penalties set forth in title 18, section 1001 of the united states code. call upon you each to give a five minute statement. this timer is not like in the games, mr. nelson. nothing bad will happen if it turns red on you. but we ask you to do five >> good morning, and thank you, mr. chairman, and the members of this committee for hosting this event and hopefully supporting clean sport. as a nine-year-old i remember watching athletes like mary lou retton and edwin moses represent the united states of america in 1984 olympic games. their performances inspired a generation of childhood dreamer. like me at least for a moment to imagine what it would be like to compete at the greatest stage on the world, culminating in an unforgettable medals ceremony accompanied by my flag and my national anthem. 12 usually i ca think that my ft olympic trials as a shot putter come to you last an effort that fueled the dream for four more years.s. for more years has been a mantra for most of my adult life. the 200 2004 olympic shotput cat petition was contested in olympia greece. more than 20,000 spectators in visited the competition venue for the first time in nearly 3000 years. 458 of 60 throws i've read that competition on the 59th row of the athlete from the ukraine tied my best mark. from as the leader going into the final rounds, i had the privilege to take the last and final throw of the competition.d as a child, my imagination could have never dreamed of a moment quite like this. but these are the moments thatat make the olympics great. and i can remember everything about that moment. i remember the faces in the crowd. i remember the heat, the sun baking my skin.. i remember the mixture of cheers and boos for one american athlete as he was competing for the gold medal. these are the moments that change the trajectory of your life and make the struggle worthwhile. when i stepped into the ring foe the last and final throw of the competition, the world wentte quiet.pped i felt the coolest of the shotput touch my neck and i felt a surge of adrenaline and watched as it sailed farther and farther than any of the thrill of the day. a i raised my hands insure victory, realizing that i had just won the olympic gold medal, only to look left and see the red flag raised indicating that i fouled. then i saw as an of actually started his victory lap, and listen as they played another national anthem and raise another flag, celebrating him, and in his honor. for eight years i lived with that result. eight years later i received a phone call from a report informed me that five athletes had tested positive in a retroactive drug testing from samples from 2004. the last eight years of my life had apparently been based on a falsehood. a month later the same reporter called me to inform you that the ioc was meeting that day to discuss what not to vacate his i position or reallocate those models. while on the call for news hit the wires and a reporter informed me that i was now the olympic gold medalist. a year later i picked up my medal in the food court at atlanta airport, it came with the side of fries and a free toy, don't worry about it. [laughter] it was an afterthought. assigned to an official who could swing to land on his wayfo home. nine years after the moment had passed, the colo call and foundf the metal matter, folks. silver does not hold the same value and gold loses its shine over time. there is a small bit of irony of me winning and metal in this fashion. as an athlete i rejected the notion you needed drugs to compete. i was vocal in my opinions about clean sport and often criticized by competitors or peers are myfn position. i was often told not to comment on the current state of anti-doping or doping in sport and major events for fear it would be a distraction. doping is in sports is seen by some as a distraction for the athletes, and obstacle for the sport of business, the business of sport. it's a thing on people set of ideals that we know is the spirit of olympus and as a result we have a system that's interested in seeing progress but naturally committed to achieving the outcome. my story illustrates only part of the damage caused by dopingte in sport, but i'm not here to invoke sympathy. sympathy is a thought, and emotion devoid of action. i'm here today to ask you all to give meaning to my medal. this metal right here. i'm here today to ask for action on behalf of millions of dreamers like me who believe in fair play and aspire for golds medals to be one and celebrate in the moment after clean and fair competition. since 2012 i become a student of international sports organizations that are advocated for clean sport that i spokeer with athletes from around the world about the subject. i've heard their voices, the voices of the clean athletes here they ask for more.hletes, but those voices continued to fall on deaf ears. so they resort to social media. they wag fingers and they create a petition that is already garnered almost 500 athlete signatures in support of structural reform.t struetes want action, not words. structural reform is only part of the solution. you cannot change a culture started by changing policy. you have to engage the athletes. so i ask as an athlete, olympic gold medalist and if someone personally a financial impact doping in sport, that you consider clean athlete as a shared owner in this all-important fight. we will stand with you as a partner if you empower us to do so. the time and the moment is now. they give very much for your time. >> thank you. of the mome [applause] >> thank you. mr. phelps, you're recognized for five minutes. >> mr. chairman, members of the committee, good money. my name is michael phelps. i'm a retired professional swimmer and an olympian. i want to thank the committee for the opportunity to appear here before you today. it's a privilege to be here to share my thoughts and perspective on the issue of clean sport which is importantn to so many athletes and the sport in general. i competed internationally for over 15 years and at the tremendous honor to represent the united states in fivead olympic games and six world championships. without question many of my proudest moments have been representing my country and international competition. there is no greater feeling than standing on top of the podium watching the stars and stripes rise, as the national anthem plays. s the real olympics were special t for me because they gave me the opportunity to in my career on my terms. w i did it my wife nicole and son boomer watching. there was also unique because of increased doping concerns. i watch how this affected by tenets and fellow competitors. with all felt frustration. looking back over my career knowing how difficult it is to get to the highest levels of sport, i can't help but wonder how the next generation of athletes will be able to do it, if this uncertainty continues. as a child i found school difficult. i had adhd, which probably contributed to my restlessness. i'll never forget being told by one of my teachers that i wouldc never amount to anything. it was swimming that enable me to see past those challenges and not be defined by them. my mom put my sisters and me in the pool so we would be water safe. at first like many children i was afraid to put my head undere the water. by overcoming that. i got my first taste of self-confidence. as it turned out i was pretty good in the water and he quickly realized the harder i work, the quicker i improved. i found a focus and a purpose i'd never felt before. i would set goals for myself and work like crazy and tell i accomplish them.yself dreams which is pop into my head whenever i get into the pool. i would dream about becoming a gold medalist, world record holder. i want to be the best. .. medalist, world record holder, i wanted to be the best. i talked with my coach so we could come up with a plan, not just for what i was doing in the pool, but also how i could better myself away from the pool. i made up my mind to do everything i could to make my dream a reality. in school, i had friends, but i wasn't that social. i focused on swimming. at times i was made fun of for what i was doing because it was different. i was in love with challenging myself to become the best athlete that i could be. i felt that every single day was >> i always felt that the kids who worked the hardest got theen best results. that is why i push myself as h hard as i could. t over a five-year time i trained to every day without a day off. i figure by train and on holidays i would be able to get the extra edge.blbl as a part of my hard work and sacrifice began to pay off, my confidence grew. i began to feel that if i could dream something and give everything ahead, that anything was possible. the strength of that belief drove me to set goals that others thought might be unrealistic. that is one amazing thing about competitive sports. it demands you believe in yourself. it isn't always easy. there are so many times i could've quit and walked away.ked sticking with it required me to dig deep, especially knowing that after all of the work and sacrifice, success success may be determined by 100th of a second. in the critical moments when you test your commitments and ultimately define your career,im you need to believe that if you push on you will get the y opportunity to measure yourself, your your preparation, your desire, your talent, against others who have prepared themselves in the same way. throughout my career i thought some athletes were cheating, in in some cases those suspicions were confirmed.co giving all the testing that i have so many others have been through i have a hard time understanding this. in addition to the testing competitions, i had to notify -- where he was every day so theyif could be able to conduct a random test outside of competition. this whole process takes a toll. it is it is absolutely worth it to keep the sport clean and fair. frust i can't describe how frustrating it is to see other athletes breakthrough performance barriers that unrealistic time frames knowing what i had to do to do that. i watch my teammates as well. even. even the suspicion of doping is it disillusioning me to athletes.y ci to believe in yourself their sport you need to be able to believe in the system that safeguards clean sport and fair play.guards c all athletes must be held to the same standards which must be implemented and enforced withh consistency and independence. for years i have worked closely with kids, they're eager to sit down and talk with me and always full of questions.s. it's want to talk about being a kid like them and how it started with a dream that you see their eyes light up. we talked about how i did it and i tell them they can do it too. i look into a child's eyes since you dare to dream into the work they can succeed. the power to believe in yourself and inspire others through sport depends upon fairplay. now that i am retired i am aske if i think anybody will ever win more medals the mie in my lifetime. my answer to that is, i hope so. i'd like to think they're some boy or girl out there right now with an even bigger dream a stronger drive to work harder than i did to do something that is never been done before.drive for that to happen here she must believe that they will have a fair opportunity to compete. or if we while the confidence of fairplay to erode will undermine the power of sports when the goals and dreams of future generations.drea the time to act as now. we must do what is necessary to ensure t the system is fair and reliablee and that we can all believe in it. thank you mr. chairman and members of the committee. [applause] >> we really have a pause after testimony so i think both of you. >> your redness for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. rankin member and other members of the clinic, good morning. i'm travis tiger from the u.s. anti- doping agency. i pre-shaping here today to discuss this important topic. we find ourselves at a critical juncture at this sport. fairness fairness and integrity and athletic competition, two principles at the very heart of why we play sports are hanging in the balance. you just are powerful testimony from adam nelson and michael phelps on why this matters. we view clean athletes and theil powerful stories as our guiding light, our northstar. the stories give us hope, they provide us the fuel to advocate for their right to clean up your competition.n. in order to do this, we must understand how and why the system is under threat. there is no timelier example of uncovering russia's widespread doping system. over 1000 russian athletes from over 30 sports have been implicated in the drug program. those proven to have been orchestrated by russian officials. at least two olympic games weree corrupted. at the rio games this past august, scores of russianup athletes competed, despite not not being subject to credible anti- dopey programs. when the moment came, despite mounds of evidence and vocal opposition from antidumping leaders and clean athletes from around the world, the ioc chosei to welcome the russian olympic committee to rio. they did not enforce any meaningful sanctions against the russian olympic committee. the ioc mr. ignored a defining moment to confront, in the clearest way possible this win at all cost culture of doping and global sports. it was a chance to drawn an ambiguous line in the sand, to stand to stand up for clean athletes of the world. despite this however, two silver lining's have emerged. the first, more than ever before as you have heard today, athletes are mobilizing, voicing their their opinions and fighting more than ever before for a level playing field.ghting second, we we all have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to disrupt and transposition for the good of sport and make sure the kind of state-supported doping is never allowed to rear its ugly head again.do to get there the rotary form starts and ends with independence. we have long long advocated in front of this congress for a clear separation between those who promote sports and those who police sport. to do so is to have the fox t guarding the hen house. you cannot both promote and police your own sport. we, along with 22 national anti- doping agency referenced earlier from around the world, support a strong and independent water bus be know it needs to be reformed. not merely the sport service organization that many hope remains. the good news, mr. chairman, is that the completed governance model could be easily solved by removing sport leaders from the board. let's take the blindfolds off, let's take the handcuffs off, and let the agency do the job that clean athletes deserve. i read the testimony both richard and rob prior to coming today.rd we know both of them well and have great respect on a personal level for their efforts to fight within the system for change. te unfortunately today, they are just carrying out the instructions from the sport bosses. and they are not here unfortunately. in regard to their positions, we agree with much of it. in fact that is why national doping agencies including us in the u.s. have implemented many of the same strategies years u.h ago.ies unfortunately this submissions are silent on the crux of the real solution which is to remove the fox from guarding the hen house. in our world we hear that term a lot. you'll see quite clearly that while the ioc in the agency may be advocating to deputy the box any educate and equip the box with appropriate resources to do the job, it is still the fox.st there is still a conflict of interest and clean athletes around the world are still being let down by sports control of s these critical insights hopingil functions. what is also frustrating for us and he purred the athletes frustration, and the athletes we serve is that the solutions are relatively easy. the determination to implement them is lacking. that we remain optimistic. national antidumping agencies from around the world have come together and put together the copenhagen reform declaration that that removes sports control of anti- doping, it strengthens the agency through increased investment, increase and make clear the agencies ability to investigate and impose sanctions, number four, provide meaningful athletes who have been wronged the recognition they deserve.ecogniti if we are involved in atom situation, not a chance that metal gets handed to him in a food court. but sport, it's an obstacle. obstacle. they don't want to care about it. let it be done right and let's have swift reallocation of any metals that have been stolen. increase support for whistleblowers around the world. for those of you on the committee who value this clean sport, this is our moment and it is not just about elite olympic athletes but every child on the playground who has a dream. ask themselves what does it take to have this dream come true. te if we do not push, if we do not when we will likely find ourselves back in the same position years from now staring at another state-supported doping system in the face. it's abuse of its own athletes, it has robbed other athletesng from around the world and we will all be wondering why we cannot do more. ath thank you. >> mr. kill, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman andto members of the committee my name is rob keeler, deputy director of the world anti- doping agency. thank you for inviting me toto test of testify today. to an issue that i my organization are passionate about. the world anti- doping agency was established in 1999 to promote, cornet, and monitor and monitor the fight against open and sports.. it is an independent agency responsible for the development and independent agency for the independent code. we harmonize antidumping andies. also ports and all companies. we work with a network network of stakeholders and governments and sports movements.stake each has its own specific roles and responsibilities wada is funded by the sports movement of the governments of the world. we hear today that the united states is the national government of wada and funds a set $2.15 million. wada has come along way in 18 years. out of very modest resources.a g the world anti-doping code is on its third reiteration. the code has code has introduced consistencies to the anti- doping rules and processes whert previously there is disparity. one should not look past the importance of consistent rules and procedures, as without without them antidumping efforts are unstructured aspirations. wada has introduced the un treaty called the unesco international convention ofl tdt against doping in sports. this treaty was ratified by 183 out of 195 states. relationships are also crucial. to run effectively as a small organization. for example, we have established lasting relationships with the world custom organizations, and our relationships with the pharmaceutical companies such as pfizer, roach, smith and klein are very helpful in terms of our research initiatives. while wada has come along way in its inception, the past two years have placed the agency in uncharted waters. the agency agency in the broader antidumping community. the widespread anti-doping or topping conspiracy in russia as described in the report and subsequent report both funded and sponsored by wada forster global. of reflection on how to fight clipping doping in sports. t wada has listened to a series of proposals by stakeholders in the wake of russian doping conspiracy. wada board is comprised of representatives from the sport movement and from governments. our board in the november meeting took action on a set of recommendations that we believe will enhance wada's role in capacity to help foster clean sport and to help protect the rights of clean athletes worldwide. moving forward in three main priorities. one, we recognize the need to enhance bae-2's intelligence gathering. this work has already begun. with the. with the arrival of our new chief investigative officer whose team will, and is entirely independent from wada'sill an management. second, wada's new whistleblower policy, we have named it speaker.re it will be approved and launched in the coming days. the last couple years have shown that informants and whistleblowers are invaluable to the fight against opinion sport. third, and perhaps, and perhaps most important, is wada's new compliance monitoring which will be the most thorough review of our stakeholders anti- doping programs.doping it will raise the standards of the entire clean sport community, we recognize, however that this compliance monitoring program will only be effective if supported by meaningful, predictable and proportionate sanctions. those organizations that support entrance avert antidumping roles.s. our foundation board endorsed principled, new sanction framework moving for to ensure that people are made accountable and making mistakes. wada is focused on the three priorities. we are all conscious that these new strategic undertakings will require a significant level of funding for you to realize our mission to protect a cleanant lv athlete. we will present to our board a clean slate draft of our 2018 budget to reflect this new level of work. simply put, to increase our capacity of the broader antidumping community will need additional funding from both sport and government to be more successful. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you, doctor your retinas for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank you members of the subcommittee. i am the medical director of the ioc. i'm very pleased to have the opportunity to present to you on behalf of the ioc. on strengthening thedihe international antidumping system. the cooperation between sport and government is extremely important. the protection of clean athletes has been an absolute priority of the ioc. we have been responsible for antidumping update games, but our responsibility is more than that, across the whole olympic family. perhaps the the most important thing the ioc has eves done this to found wada in 1995. in the first two years there is funded by the ioc in that it became a partnership, 50/50 between government and sport. and now, the ioc fund wada to the tune of 14 million per year the sporting community as a whole spends hundreds of millions of dollars a urine antidumping. more recently with agenda 2020, the importance of protecting the clean athlete was really central within the ioc strategy. since then there there has been to olympic summitshe which have called for increasedb in independence, increased harmonization, and increased -- balance. for mild personal and professional commitment to this began in 19841 as an athlete i want to olympic gold medal in los angeles. since then i've been a dr. and looked after olympic athletes from around the world for more than 25 years. that has given me a a passionate commitment we have to do everything we possibly can to ensure olympic athletes like the two fantastic athletes we have with us today, to be sure they are competing on a level playing field. 2012 i became chief medical for the london olympics and the since 2012i been i been the ioc medical and scientific director responsible for the prevention of injuries and illness inf athletes for education, research, and anti- doping. this of course is a threat. as he overheard, there's there's a small silver lining in the recent scandals, the acceptance among the anti-doping community that we have to strengthen the world anti- doping system. i appreciate you calling this hearing and giving the platform for us to make changes. and the support of wada from the u.s. from ioc's part was strongly support the regulation role of wada, the assessment of antidumping organizations, this will only succeed if it is seen as fair. w there must be respect for individual justice and we mustn't sanction or punish athletes for the failure off others.. as part of governance, the ioc has called for leaders of wada to be independent and we are into cream and on, independent from sport and government. i recall the further independence from the wholeem system, separating legislation from policy, policing and sanctioning. you do not have the same body setting the rules. nor to avoid conflict of interest or any perception of conflict of interest, the ioc would be independent from all around the world. as a result, the independent testing authority could do ind everything from the testing and analysis to storing samples up to ten years for reanalysis, through to the prosecution of cases in the same way that the ioc did in brea when it may have been independent of the ioc through an arbitration panel. this way with an independent testing authority, athletes can be confident they are throughout the world are also being tested by a similar standard. as regards to the report, this was a shocking institutional conspiracy. the ioc has taking this extremely seriously, have been two commissions having acquired up of samuel schmidt of switzerland, looking at the whole commission under dennis oswald looking at individual cases.he denni as professor they have acknowledged challenges because the evidence together is not designed to be used to prosecute individual cases. we are working hard with forensic analysis and gathering of evidence so these cases canan be pursued with the cooperation of bae-2, of the the independent person and his team, and also the international federations. these commissions are ongoing and should finish in time for the next games. ultimately, the goal the goal of the ioc is the protection of the clean athlete. we are fully determined to work with all of those involved in this fight as wada, the athletes and the entourage. we thank thank you for this opportunity to address to you. >> thank you to our witnesses today. i will will recognize myself in five minutes. recently hundred two dozen national anti-doping agencies have voiced support for reforms they believe is necessary toav strengthen the oversight. central to this a sports organizations to governments of the antigovernment organizations. to eliminate meiminate what many of you has a conflict of interest in of the fox got in henhouse. so based on your experience, with the removal of sports organizations from your governance structure and prove your independence and operations? >> thank you mr. chair. the first thing i want to draw back is that we hear the word wada is broken and needs to be fixed. t we are here today for the simple reason that wada did a lot to expose doping in russia and it brought to the forefront major issues. >> but will removal a sports organization from yourma governance structure improve operations? >> guest: i'm not sure it will improve it. i think there's a protest going on right now where were doing a complete governance review of how we can strengthen the organization. we are open to any suggestions on the way forward. >> doctor budget, do you support this type of reform? >> yes, we do support this reform. >> are you taking for the change?>> we do. >> yes, in fact wada to take steps for this change for the governance review. which is independent experts a representative from sports and government to look at the totaln government from wada and the executive board should be independent both sport and government. >> to have anything to add to those,'s question. >> i would just say that if in fact it is now the position, it's wonderful. we will see if it happens. we have had two plus years for that moved to be made and athletes are still waiting fore. some change in that sport today. they could remove themselves from the governance of wada. we haven't seen it, we've heard discussion of separation of powers, and we certainly agree with that basic principle. youve can have sport involved in the legislative branch, but when it comes time to the most importann functions to protecting clean athletes, it's to have an executive function that is free of the fox attempted to guard itself and not conflicted byempn that. we have to have a definitive statement or position from the ioc to remove themselves from that. so that is a position were fully agree and are thrilled. >> mr. phelps, in your testimony you write that to believe in yourself through clean sport you need to be able to believe in a system that safeguards clean sport of fair play, all athletes must be held to the same standards which may be metaphors with consistency and independence. given these recent events, what effect does doping scheme of this magnitude have upon you as an athlete? >> one of the kind of craziest things the biggest things that come to my mind when i think of international sports, and i've said this to travis, i don't believe that i have stood up on international at an international competition and the rest of the field has been clean. i don't believe that. i don't think i have ever felt that.hrough the i know when i do stand up in the us, i know we are all clean because we're going to the same thing. or going to the whereabouts and out of competition tests. we are doing that stuff. for me, in terms of internationally come i think there has to be something done. and needs to be done now. >> mr. nelson, how about you. what effect does this have on our youth? does that also have dreams about being the best in competing at the limbic level. >> the notion of trust is really important. as athletes we trust these organizations that are looking up her best interest, our integrity, are doing their jobs to the best of their abilities and being open, ominous, and transparent with how things are going. last year for 2015, thinker is a major violation of that trust. and things that we use to come as athletes may be not pay us close attention to or say someone else is looking after this, now i think think we see a change in the culture of athletes that says they are not doing their job appropriately yet. we have to do it for them. i think that is a big shift in the culture of athletics going on right now.cultur >> thank you. good to recognize recognize mr. get not for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman. i found your written and oral testimony to be refreshingly honest. i want to talk about a few of the findings that you made. you referred in your written testimony to the russian cheating scheme as shockinglyd pervasive and noted that it quote, spread across more than 30 sports and 2011 from 2015. is that correct? >> yes, that correct? >> yes, man. >> you also said quote, russiand method of cheating went from hard to sci-fi model. they mailed dna to female samples and emails to the russian minister of the sport looking for guidance on which it doped athletes to protect and which to satisfy, is that crack? >> yes, ma'am. >> also in your testimony you d described this as a nightmare realize. you point out that whistleblowers and journalist played a major role in unearthing the skin. now, some of these p whistleblowers. for their own safety, secretary marks mark. >> s. >> in fact, some of those facts. are some of those are in hiding in the united states currently is that correct. >> yes. >> wada's independent investigation determined russia's security service took t part in this cheating scheme, is that correct. >> yes. >> bae-2's impending impending investigation found that over 1000 russian athletes might have benefited from the russian doping scheme, zechariah?from t >> yes. >> you also said in your testimony that despite mountains of evidence, the ioc ioc chose not to stand up for clean athletes and against institutional doping. you he said the ioc's adobe not to be in russia was quote, a defining moment and that the ioc failed to leave. finally, you said history will not judge the ioc's judgment kindly. is that accurate. >> it is. >> i want to ask you, what should the ioc in the anti-doping community be doing now to address the findings of wada's independent investigation >> outside of the reform proposals that we before which we think are critically important in the 22 of around the world agree. the silver bullet, if there is one to curing this, is removing the pox guarding the hen house. always nod in the ioc's prepared remarks committed yesterday, i think i heard that is something they are prepared to do, remove sports leaders from the bae-2's governance board. if that's the case that goes along way in solving the concerns. they also have to finish the investigation and ensure that the individual cases are followed up on. any athletes from around the world were raj get the rifle place on the podium and given a meaningful celebration.dium and >> are you familiar with this letter that the director general of the ioc sent on february 23 2017? >> i am. >> in that letter he says, the schmidt commission which has to address the substantial allegations about the potential systematic manipulation of the anti- doping samples is continuing its work. then it says, they are talking about a state-sponsored system in the final full report iney december they talked about an institutional conspiracy and they said now they are going to have to consider what this change means and what individual organizations are government a 37 a ball.organi do you have any idea what they're talking about? >> i'm not exactly sure. not e >> this committee, we did an investigation many years ago it. around the salt lake city olympics. this is the same kind of stuff we got from the ioc them. they have this unending investigation. they're looking at angels dancing on the head of a pin. i don't even know what they are talking about. you're saying you do not either. >> i am not sure. >> i want to ask you mr. phelps and mr. nelson, briefly, what structural changes need to be made to the global anti-doping system system to prevent this kind of activity from happening again? >> from spending and working, look at the independents. i think it's powerful that a says athletes know that were doing the right thing and they're doing the right thing as well. if you could change something like that it would be great.ld >> mr. nelson? >> i think the first change has to be holding all of the different stakeholders in this mess to the same level of accountability that held the athletes too. if if you strictly at first the rules for compliance at a national level federation level, you will see people happen line quickly because they will lose the opportunity to compete in their athletes we lose the opportunity to compete. the second thing is transparency in reporting. as an athlete i have struggled to find out how well this group is doing because the information is not readily available. there have been steps in the last few years to help with that. the number of adverse findings and number of samples that are collected each year suggest that either the problem is not pervasive as they think or the testing is not quite there yet. >> thank you very much. i ask unanimous consent to put this february 23 letter from the ioc into the record. >> a without objection. i recognize mr. walton for five minutes. >> thank you. thank you to our witness, your testimony has been helpful. i want to ask our olympians again, to make this clear, youth don't think you have ever competed in the clean olympics, is that right? >> internationally whether it's world championships or olympic games, i don't feel that, no.y, >> nelson? >> no. >> i have a question for you, i want to clarify to make sure we all heard this the same way, your organization with support removing sport leaders from the wada board, is that true quest mark. >> that is correct, within a structure of structure of governance that will be developed to this. >> so within that year? >> within the the year.rn >> i want to go back. here is why a lot of us are concerned. there are whistleblowers as far back as 2010 who probably risked more than just their ability to compete to come forward and share with the organization what was going on. it strikes me that it was not until their investigative press reports that anything happened. so the question is, do you have a process that we can trust, whistleblowers who take great risk to trusted come great forward and have some action taken on what they share? normally people are a great risk when they come forward. they are not going to do it if they think they are just going to get blown off.t if you have to convince us that something is going to really change here. >> that is why wada is in place. i would refer that question to my colleague on my rights. to. to reiterate, the ioc is in the process of removing the fox from the hen house, i think that is a good analogy. we are in the process of relinquishing all control over anti- doping. >> i was the radio business, sources matter. it is how organizations of the press could do their job organ effectively. but, if they are ignored they go away and we lose out. >> it is so important to protect the whistleblowers. i think it is the right time to recognize two very brave whistleblowers who came forward and 2010. yes, we do not have the power to investigate it, what i can tell you during that time is that when they came forward, our ultimate goal was to protect their safety. we had information from them that came from the i-aa about corruption, from russia about corruption. we did not know who to hand it to. we were in a difficult position and we had no power to investigate.stigate. no question when they came forward. >> who had the power to investigate? >> nobody, except the national federations. the government or the international federation. it was not until 2015 that it 15 that it changed and give us the power to investigate. >> what a broken system.stigat what a broken system. up to that that point. how else can you look at this? you have the investigative journalist who blew the doors open on this, now you have the reports, now you're going to give us confidence that you're going to reorganize this operation and get to the point where we don't have complex of t interest and where our athletes, especially u.s. athletes hoop play by the rules can compete against other athletes who played by the rules. >> i can tell you categorically that any whistleblower that comes forward, to this day as of 2015, our number one priority is to protect them, protect the rights. pri even when we did not have their investigative power we took it upon ourselves to protect the whistleblowers to make sure they were safe. >> were you aware of any whistleblowers that came forth recently and made additional allegations? >> we are, yes. >> are those allegations being investigated or do you still lack that authority? >> they're all being still investigated. >> so what happens? once you complete your investigation, who rules, walk rules, walk me through that part. >> anytime there's a whistleblower that comes word our investigative team, which again is going to be six people, not nearly enough for a global organization, they have an independent role to bring forward into research and investigate anti- doping rule te violations. then should they have evidence, there bring it for to the wada management and committees and foundation board to report and determine what sanctions should be required. >> mr. tygart is shaking his >>ad. >> i just think there is a really important point here and it is what i said in my oral testimony about deputizing the fox. if the wada foundation board is making determinations and overseen investigations, or testing and doctor budget talked about removing sport from the wada government board and not just a testing, that is a critical point. if you continue to have sport overseen investigations and determining compliance, acting as a global regulator of itself, it is no different than the current status quo which is the fox guarding the hen house. it would be great to have ats th definitive conclusion if the ioc's conclusions today is at the wada level the global regulator are going to remove themselves from that board, which they could do today. it doesn't take another summit to do that. they could do it today.o. >> my time is expired. thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman. i wanted to discuss the role of the athletes and addressing the challenges we face with doping. mr. tygart, nn article you wrote the athletes voice a force for change, and i quote at the end of the day it's the athletes not the suits who billions of people around the world tune in to watch. it is the athletes who leave us holding our breath, with them that there is no sport are nole truer lasting change. you send your testimony that now more than ever athletes are mobilizing and placing their opinions, my question is, what role should athletes play in terms of policing their own sport specifically it in the anti- doping structure more broadly?he >> it starts with the athletes. they on the culture of sport. it said it took this scandal to mobilize them and the way it has, but it is wonderful they are now mobilizing and realizing how important this right is. they also have to have confidence int' the system and should have a clear voice in the system. just like like the sports organizations they cannoo play a role in in guarding themselves. there has to be someone who doesn't on behalf of them. but then protecting the field they exist in is critical. we will not ultimately be successful without thereby into the program, faith and trust in the system and willingness to do everything to win and a biplane by thehe rules. >> the role that athletes should play in terms of ensuring their sport are free from adobe? >> for me, as an athlete i have always made sure that i take care myself and prepare myself the best way possible. that's what i have always done, i've never voiced opinions, i've stayed in my lane, so to say.of all of the time.for for me, it takes way what i am doing. it takes away what i am trying to accomplish and i think that is just one thing for mee that i never did, never voiced opinions before this year. obviously as an athlete who has been around for a couple of olympics and seen a lot of things happen, it's frustrating. for me, i would like to stand up on the block and international competition and know that the other seven competitors i'm racing against prepare just like i did. they went to the exact same hard work that i did. they dedicated themselves dedicated themselves to doing what nobodyt has done before. or to accomplish their goal. that would be a dream for me. i hope i hope to be able to see that one day. >> mr. nelson, should athletes be more vocal going forward and demand reform so we can better ensure the systems in place wilm guarantee clean play? >> yes, i believe they should be more vocal. more than just using their words, think they need to be integrated into the solution as well. right now, the way their voices are integrated is through the internal athletes advisoryintegt committees. those committees are very rarely have the power to influence or do anything other than influence policy when people come to them by asking questions. it's a reactive force notar proactive force. with this particular issue considering it's on so many athletes and invades on the privacy of so many athletes, it's a huge burden athletes bear. we accept the burden with opens arms, but we have no input into it. if you're about building trust with athletes and changing culture you have to find a way to insert their voice to the leadership and structure of the solution. >> thank you.ip and i'm in a go back to mr. tygart. given the findings of the independent investigation, it it was my understanding the athletes were prepared to boycott the international bobsled and skeleton championship there set to take place in socially this month. you state athletes around the world -- what can you tell us about the potential athlete boycott of that event. when we see more instances of that? where athletes put their feet to participate in boycotts? >> i hope not. i say that- because i've talked to athletes about that issue and talk to the bobsled athletes, that's a non-t-mobile position that your sports organization is not going to enforce the decision it makes to bar events from russia. you are concerned about your own sample security of the testing regime to go to russia, or you decide to boycott. that is not fair to those athletes. we should not put athletes in those positions to make that decision. we don't have to because sport in the anti- doping system can determine to enforce the decisions made and not have events in russia until they clean up their act, become compliance, and ely be at that concert. i do not for a second hope that any athletes have to boycott. the show's frustration. and it's a good example good example and they're even willing to consider that option that they're frustrated and want change. >> i am out of time. thank you mr. chairman. >> i recognize the bison chairman for five minutes. >> thank you very much and thank you for being here. i know people assembled here today are the good guys trying to figure out how to get it right. with that being said, i think i'm hearing meetings of the minds going on. doctor budget, am i hearing you say that the ioc is prepared to relinquish the governance of board and also investigations and testing, or have i gone too far? >> you are correct about the investigation testing. that is something the ioc has called for since the olympic summit and is very important. we want to do it for sport and i think there's and i think there's a conflict of interest with government as well. we need to look across the whole of anti- doping. >> comes to thertwect governancf wada and think it needs to go through due process. i do not know what structure will, or what representation there be from sport.o but that is for the people in charge of governance to sort on the actual testing on there structure around that, that will be completely independent. >> of the governance board is in question but you anticipate reforms before the end of this your? >> i certainly hope so. the first meeting is in a week or so.. >> let me ask as long as i have you, it may may be what mr. keeler touched on earlier. mr. nelson's nelson showed us his metal earlier. those a special moment. speci but if food court in atlanta is not appropriate. i would say someone who tries to problem solve and i know a lot of us try to do that even we have disagreements, why not we, then any metals that are given late because somebody cheated, at the opening ceremonies of the next olympics that particular sport. seems to me me that would make mr. nelson's experience mor special. do you think that sounds a better way than getting it with a happy meal? >> it was a really cool toy.y. [laughter] yes, think that would be a big step forward in winter they recognize the issue and not sweep it under the rug which i think is important as well. >> mr. phelps, i think the entire american swimming team brought this up maybe accidentally, but with billy king and others talking about this openly at the olympics last summer, it became an issue that most americans are now aware of a probably millions more around the world. i appreciate you doing that. i appreciate you being here today and taking your time to join us. is there anything you want to touch on that you have not had an opportunity to speak on? >> not today. i will say that i agree with what you're saying about saying about going to the next olympics. for me as i said in my testimony, there is nothing better than watching your flag rise listening to the national anthem for me that is one of the greatest things that i will miss the most. to to be able to represent country and have a special moment, i feel he deserves it. >> and and i completely agree. i'll take it back in time a bit, how long did it take you when he started complaining about the long swimming suits before the ioc change those. we've been working on drugs for 30 or or 40 years, didn't only take swimming suits and a couple of years? >> it was not long.e ca i think the larger suits probably came out in 2007 and by world championships of 20009000 last chance last chance everyone had the opportunity to swim and then.t like i said that took away from the actual sport. the a some manufacturers trying to come up with a suit that they think is the fastest and some are different than others. you can go into different technical parts there, and quickly we got that removed too. hopefully we can get this result as well. t >> i hope so too. i know you have indicated some frustration but does it give you hope that we are on the right path they were getting the situation to where were actualls governing? >> our position along with 22 other national doping organizations around the world this crystal clear that we have to remove the fox from the governance. so if wada's governing board still determines the consequence of an investigation is still determines what testing plans are acceptable, still is responsible ultimately for determining who is in compliance with the rules and who is not, it is no different than what we currently have. so, we are not in agreement with that we will continue to push.o. we recognize the solution is to remove the fox from guarding the hen house because he cannot believe in a system with sports still determines what's in the best interest and controls the best interest of anti- doping. >> don't think we can do this a little faster than eight years? >> in rio there is 1900 athletes out of 11000 from ten high-risk a sports that had no test of record prior to the real games how unacceptable is that. recor that's what happens when sport and the ioc responsibility attempts to protect and policesi itself. the integrity of the games is upheld. at the end of the game we need to stop that from happening. my time is up so you'll back. >> what do we say the number was for six months leading into the games? f a baker's dozen?e they're saying over 1900 athletes the top ten sports tha? were not tested. and even tested a dozen times,>r 13. >> thank you. i really want to thank the witnesses and actually the athletes. i find so shocking that you bote said that in the olympic games, in an international competitions that you do not feel confident that someone has not been dopedd so, i am hopeful in this very bipartisan hearing today that we are having, that we are going to be able to contribute to alleviating that lack of confidence so that when the kids that you work with now have their dreams that they can believe and i want to thank you mr. tygart hopefully all of you for restoring that confidence ty americans. i want to requote congresswoman saying that despite mountains of evidence of vocal opposition from anti- doping groups, the ioc chose not to stand up for clean athletes and against institutionalized doping. you pointed out the ioc punted the decision to the international sports federation and missed an opportunity to stand for clean athletes and send a clear message. how should the ioc at the time have held russia accountable foc its deception as described in wada's independent investigation? >> we were very clear along with 13 other national anti-dipping organizations from around the world who sent a letter to the ioc, after the mclaren reports an exposed russia institutionalized up and was established and said, you cannot reword the olympic committee whose responsibility it is as a member of the ioc was complicit in it according to some of the evidence as well as have responsibility in their own country to ensure it does not happen. this is the antithesis of the olympic movement and values. do not allow them to come, they've done it in other circumstances, but on apartheid for example would not let south africa come. so they have the power to do it, they chose not to do it. our recommendation was to not let the russian olympic committee there. have a uniform and consistent application by individual athletes who might not have been part of the system, if there are any and who are not tainted by that system. do not just handed off to 38 different sport federations who do not have the time, money, b resources and expertise in days before rio, it's a mess. >> do you believe russia has insufficiently held accountable for this corruption. >> we do not. >> i understand the ioc has performed two committees to look forward into the evidence presented in the investigation. you have have confidence in those two tee committees? >> again without beating my drum too much, it's the fox and the hen house. you have a sport run investigation will make a determinations at this point and you can have trust in the outcome of those investigations. unfortunately because the perception is what we know is you cannot promote and police your sport on the heels of allowing the athletes to go in the russian olympic committee to go. there is a self-fulfilling prophecy that you do not want to be successful in those cases to justify your decision to let them into bullet begin with. that is a perception that is out there that we hear from athletes that are concerned about that. >> based on what you heard today at this hearing, and if those promises are implemented, would you then have confidence? >> still the governance peace is troubling and will not allow it the full independence free from promoting a policing aspect itco needs to regain the confidence he could. that model has worked in other parts of the country. there is no good reason not to other than to control the outcomes. why wouldn't you let go of the governance if you know athletes will have more confidence in it? the only reason is to continue to control it. there is no other good reason. >> all of the fans and all of the people who were inspired by it will have more confidence. let me ask you finally, how did the russian situation go undetected for so long? what failed?failed >> i disagree with mr. keillor's ability to investigate going back to 2010. many of us believe they have the power to do it. i don't think he would disagree with that they did have the clear powers to hold organizations compliant. this issue of countries in sports, whether compliant with the rules are not frequently came to their board. it was determined they were not going to make decisions onweren' compliance. that is the fox thing we are not going to hold ourselves accountable because of the bad pr that would result. so, we have to remove that box to ensure the authority thats have clearly to investigate and clearly what they have today to do compliance, it is done in aac way that is free of the sports influence and for no other reason. >> thank you. i you'll back. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank you all for being here and sharing with us and educating us on the challenges you face. mr. tygart, besides removing the fox, the sports organizations from the governance of the anti- doping organizations, what are some other reforms you believesr are necessary that have been advocated by others to enhance wada's authorities to enhance their resources to investigate? >> i think it has improved independence and transparency, board limits, their process to how board members are appointed or voted. of course increase investment we think they have, and have had the authority to investigate. if there's any question about that, make that absolutely clear and actually do the job of monitoring compliance and have a clear plan to how you will do that. >> do you believe that based on those types of reforms you could actually address an issue as large has nation state sponsored doping? >> i do. it all came back to whistleblowers. the media put it out there. puti if we had the same will and determination free of any conflict not to do the right thing, it is not holding governments accountable it is investigating sport and holding sport accountable. and the ioc through its olympic charter can hold national olympic committees accountable. that can be done if the process is determined to make sure clean athletes around the world happen and if these situations do not happen again. >> mr. keillor, if you would please respond to what mr. tygart suggestions are r particularly with respect to wih wada's authority to hold nationstates responsible, and have you ever done so? >> i would first like to clarify that prior to 2015, wada did not have the power to investigate. that doesn't come into force into the world into jumping code was established.antido >> out of curiosity you have been in existence since 1999? >> that's correct. >> so how and why is it that you do not get investigative authority until 2015? >> at the first code came in 2003. there has been three reiteration sense. it is not wada's code.e it is stakeholders and it was an evolving system. to be honest, the reason the investigation came in was that we saw the power of the whistleblower coming forward and they needed an independent body to investigate. >> when wada was created in 1999, it was never intended to be an investigative authority when it has to do with anti- doping? >> that's correct. >> so it wasn't until 2000 through the different codes comes to beak, but then then so what is it besides educating and testing, what is it that you would attribute as bae-2's successes? what is it that you have done if you are not able to investigate and until 2015. >> there's been evolution in the anti- doping system. the first thing we did was harmonize anti- doping rules. prior to the code and athlete in russia and an athlete in the united states could potentially have different sanctions. what could have two years and look at a four years. even sports a different sanctions. we harmonize that process.on >> how do you then have 1900 athletes out of 11000 not being subject to doping testing at all? >> i fully agree with mr. tygart's. this should not happen, cannot happen and there needs to be further investment in anti-doping to to ensure it does not happen. one thing i raised earlier's that we are moving into a system noncompliance and compliancem review. in the past, it it has not been as rigorous as it should have been. now there is a call by athletes in anti-doping community community to go audit and make people accountable. if they are not doing it we have appointed an independent compliance review committee to make a call and countries, on sports that are deemed not doing the work to make them compliant. it is time to change. those countries countries that are not during the amount of testing, they need to be held accountable. >> would be your request that maybe six investigators to investigate the world of athletes may not be sufficient? what percentage of your budget is allocated toward investigations?alit >> that's an understatement. six is definitely not enough. we. we are working on a very minimal budget. for the two independent reportse we have covered, we spent over 2,500,000 dollars $5 million on two reports out of $27.5 million budget. we do not have enough to continue to react to the needs of the athletes. >> it may be the budget needs to be reallocated to increase the amount of funds on investigations relative to your other duties.rease with that, i yelled back. >> i recognize ms. castor for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman and to the witnesses for being here. international sports, anti- doping enforcement is flawed. it is clear the tools to for sanctions on athletes in countries could cheat have to be strengthened. look look no further than july 2016, the world anti- doping committee recommended to the ioc that a ban russian athletes from the 2016 games and despite that recommendation, the ioc decided to allow russian athletes to participate in the real games. if the russian sports federation carried out an analysis on their own and looked at the individuals anti- doping records , then they could, russia could approve them to participate. but then at the end of the year there were press reports, the acting director, general brushes national anti- jumping agency said no, what has been going on is an institutional conspiracy. years worth of cheating schemes while emphasizing the government's top officials werel not involved.not the new york times reported a lab director tampered with urine samples at the olympics and provided cocktails with performance-enhancing drugs, corrupting some of the world's most prestigious competitions. members competitions. members of the federal security service, a successorck to the russian kgb broke into sample bottles holding your in a deputy sports minister, for years sam ordered coverups of top athletes orderebanned substances. i want everyone to know the russians have disputed this.he i in the following weeks. but mr. phelps, how frustrating is that for athletes? what is the feeling like for as you go into these competitions, can we screen all of this out when you're going into compete and you know other countries are sanctioning this type of cheating? >> for me, as i said earlier having a chance trip; to was a tremendous honor. you cannot do anything about. i cannot go into anything about it. the only thing i can take care of this myself.an at that point we try to stick together as a team, we know we are going to get up on the block and fight as hard as we can. >> meanwhile, what what kind of testing are you going through? as an american applet? >> i can can tell you with some of things i've gone through witf filling out paperwork about my whereabouts every day where i am so they can do out of contests.a i've done it for 16 years, filled out these forms quarterly. f their stacks of paper. notes on line. >> what kind of physical test? >> blood test, your test, it's all the time. it was multiple times a month for me. especially when i'm in the us. even when when i'm overseas. if you go to olympic games i guess less for i was tested almost every day. so there are people going through the same things i'm going through?well, i hope so. >> apparently not. there are 1900 athletes who competed in the real games were never tested at all. so, mr. tygart you have heard mr. budget say some changes arey in process to take ioc influence out of the enforcement side of the anti- doping. what does that mean really? it specific. what has to happen to take the box out of the henhouse? >> we will see how it gets flushed out. it's good that that we're finally seeing it on friday and the testimony on that level of detail. >> i think the model is what we know of the separation of powers. you have a legislative body that makes the rules, and even active athletes should play a part in the sport.e legislative body should establish the wall and then it should come time to a totally independent, free of sport influence to have an executive branch that it forces the law. the we need a judicial branch. the the executive branch should have no sport member activeit athlete and that should make the determination of who is compliant, investigate, ensure testing at national levels is done in the same fashion and same level of of integrity and in compliance with same rules. we'll volunteer to be the first ones audited under that program as long as everyone else is being audited and held accountable under that program. >> thank you for having the fortitude to stand up for athletes and clean competition around the world. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you to the witnesses. esther nelson, to the fourth place winner in the shot put, was he awarded then the bronze medal or someone who did not have a metal? >> yes, he was. >> that's good. was it two and a food court where was he even american? >> he was not american. i don't know where it was given to him. >> and try to get my head around what you went through. we all tend to focus on the winner of the gold medal, the winner of the super bowl and sot forth. just amazing. it is is a great hearing, i'm curious, doctor budget, as we look at the ioc and i have read where you are looking at an independent testing agency overall, i would suit me the u.s., the u.k., japan, canada, some nations that i think that athletes are doing the job, with a them be replaced with this independent testing? >> yes, i think i would like to see the olympic games there's more testing than any other events in the world. we recognize far more important testing leads up to the games. we hear the how that's not adequate every year. the function function of the international federations, were working very hard with wada and a group to actually put in place a program of testing leading up to the next games that will be targeted.comprehe that is one aspect. the other is is to say the independent testing authority which would certainly and ultimately we have to talk to art nato colleagues could do the testing for the anti-doping organizations as well. they have they have an equal conflict of interest. >> concern on the budgetary piece that there nations the u.s., u.k., japan, canada come they're actually doing the job, would you think those five national testing agencies areesg serious? >> i don't know specifics of what countries are following the same method as we are in the't o u.s. travis could into that better. i believe their countries that are going to the same process we are.re. we should all be fair i should plan the same field. for for me as a father now like i said in my presentation, i don't know how i would talk to my son about doping in sports. i would hope to never have that conversation and i hope we can get it cleared and cleaned up by then. for me going to what i've done in that's probably question that i could get asked from him. i don't how i would answer. >> it is the win at any cost. certainly were seeing the health of the athletes that did cheat and football, the concussions concussions and what that leads to later in life. mr. keeler, on wada to have concerns about that national anti- doping inserting countries like the u.s., canada? >> i would say we have concerns with the u.s. and canada. and but we do have concerns. i would like to step back if you allow me that we can have all of the governance review in the haved which we welcome and we want. i have been in the business for 20 years and it is time for change. it is time to put investment into the business. busines i look globally the amount of money being put into national gl anti- doping organizations and it is insufficient. there'ssi there's the crux of the issue. this is protect sport and clean athletes.hletes. it is so important and we need to put that investment in and not just saying it, but doing it. until that happens we will never see change. san >> on the sanctions piece let mass the athletes, right now now were talking someone is caught l cheating and they give it the tg or for your suspension. s do you think that's adequate? a should we be esther kony and a lifetime ban, one and done? it would just show and tried to skirt the rules one and done, what do you think? >> that's a very good question.t the answers that i think you have to have some ability for the athletes to protect their own rights in the process as well. so if you're going to increase t the level of the penalties associated with it, you have to increase the investment in their ability to protect themselves as well. a lot of athletes, were the lowest common denominator in this whole pyramid. commo we are also trusted to make the most critical part of the decision-making process. were also the least important and least prepared to make it. so, i'm okay with increasing the penalties and doing something provided there is a gray area here unfortunately. emergency therapeutic, metal think condition sometimes require certain actions. i am okay with the one and done, i'm okay with financial penalties associated with it. this is a business. we business. we treated differently because it is olympic sports. at the end of the day it is a business. you can hold onto the staying standard as you hold other. >> i appreciate that. i'll back my time. thank you for your testimony. >> thank you mr. chair. . . i would like to offer my welcome to travis tieg eert as we have done a lotf work together in the issue of addressing doping in this case in the sport of to the new york state economy each year and supports him 380,000 domestic jobs nationwide. the fifth committee is interested in supporting antidumping efforts across the board. i would suggest a hearing on doping and horseracing and the legislation i introduced with my colleague which would restore integrity back to the sport. back to this focus, today we have heard about investigations that revealed russia's efforts to manipulate drug doping controls. in the former special agent for the united states drug enforcement agency helped investigate some of the allegations involving russian doping. august 4, 2016, they ran a story quoting mr. robinson about his time and -- and the pt imply the agency lacks adequate substitute investigate doping allegations. and he said and i quote ãthis cannot be jacked versus roger. i think manpower, when money did become available. and never investigations. i was working 11 hours a day, sometimes 18 hours.some, your a seasoned investigator. does it have witnessed to investigate government investigations when they arise? in particular like with russia and state supporting this. >> clearly, resources is a question. i think the resource is there in the budget could be better utilized to ensure investigators are done the way they ought to be in order to do this. >> i am informed that they operate on a $30 million budget castle which is from the olympic movement have from states. so again, based on your expertise as a $30 million budget enough for the anti-doping code and should this be contributing more? >> i do not know the question. clearly, there is enough money in sport at least. he sought my testimony the funding that they have $1.4 billion fund total assets of $3.9 billion in 2015. the money is there. i think whether it is sport, or government. the question is protecting the integrity of the property we put out to the marketplace. important enough to spend more than one or two percent on it. anything absolutely it is. and we ought to ensure that they have the resources to do the job that they need to do. however ultimately it is supportive whether it comes from sport or additional funding from government. >> thank you. you believe you have enough money to do your job? >> no i don't. i have been given an exact figure today -- what i can say that in my opening remarks over developing a clean slate budget based on the new reforms, based on the new capacities that we have identified where and how much funding is needed. i will however, say that we talked about increased funding think more importantly were equally as important is the injection of funding into the organizations. the natural antidumping organizations are the ones in the field of day-to-day carrying out the business. and if they are not equipped to deal with and protect clean athletes that we are so far behind we will never witness. >> thank you. according to news reports the international olympic committee has a $1.4 billion fund. and the ioc currently provides about $15 million a year. mr. phelps, given the evidence we've heard today, detailing state-sponsored doping control manipulation, to the ioc provide more resources? >> in my opinion i think this is something that needs to be handled today. i think we need to find whatever way to take care of this issue. we need to figure it out. if it is more money than it is more money. i think for me growing up in sports, i always look at the greats and how they did it. that was my dream to be one of the best. and it is through hard work and dedication. it is sad to see their other athletes that choose to take different routes to get there. and they not only will sometimes test positive once but multiple times and they are still allowed to compete at an international level. i do not think that is fair to the other athletes who are going in and going to the grind every day. to try and make sure we accomplished the dreams we have. >> thank you. >> i recognize mr. -- from pennsylvania. >> thank you. i understand the ioc -- from the 2014 winter olympics. can you explain what testing is being conducted on the samples and does include testing of both a and b samples? >> yes, the reanalysis program has been a huge success if you want to look at it that way. and before where we had over 100 adverse findings from london and beijing.with regard to deduct all the samples from the russian athletes had been reanalyzed. the results of those are in case management at the moment. also, i have others been reanalyzed. also all of the samples on the -- are being forensically examined to look for evidence and manipulation. some of that was be done by mclaren some is being done in a more comprehensive way that can be used to bring anti-doping violation to those athletes. >> he may have answered that within this answer but it didn't come into the test include a forensic analysis of the sample to identify scratches or marks that suggest they may have been tampered with? >> exactly to document that exactly so it can be used in a case. >> a question for all panelists. thank you for your time. i particularly want to think the athletes for your testimony. i think it is a great way to raise awareness in this testing process and certainly were both american heroes and we recognize you as such. i think it is very worthy that you both took the time to prepare and be here today. having said that i will ask you both and then open the subject all panelists. what would you deem to be appropriate progress one year from now or two years from now, you pick a time in the future. toward achieving a more independent and honest system? mr. nelson, mr. phelps and whomever else. >> i think you have to hold everyone to the same standard that we hold the athletes to. and i think you also need to find a way to change a culture that allows this. we talked about the difference between this area of the world and some other areas of the world. i still know for a fact that there are certain areas of the world with doping as part of the culture. you have to find, there has to be some education and reeducation of the key players in those areas. to me, if i can see those two changes and structural reforms and implement compliance, that would be a huge change. >> i agree with everything he said. for me is kind of hard, i think some as it was 20 years to get to this point. it took us this long to get here. who knows how long will take us to go forward. that is what's frustrating.as an athlete he spent always verse 20 years in the pool. something needs to happen now and i'm glad people are starting to take this seriously. and take this in a serious matter. because it is crushing sports. for the youth and everyone around the world. can you put a time limit on this? i don't know. it is hard hearing what i am hearing and trying to put a timeframe on it. i just have no clue. >> thank you for your question. it does not take a year, these allegations first came out in december 2014. we have had well over two years to deal with them. today is the day. what can happen today is a government structure can happen. remove sport from executive functions because you cannot promote and police.it could take 500 million of the $1.4 billion fund, set it in a blind trust to fund wada and efforts moving forward. i can be done today. >> if i can add i think all of the three answers are spot on. both in terms of the exposing the frustration that athletes feel as well as what can technically be done to show a measurable impact. the final point that i would like to say is, i do find it to be extremely important to note how a system that lacks the integrity or a system that can be improved but yet, has not yet been improved - what that does in terms of disillusionment to our athletes. and what decisions athletes may be confronted with when they realize the reality of the situation. and certainly, as an american we want to make sure we are encouraging those in youth sports to conduct themselves in an ethical way. and also to make sure that they are not doing anything to their bodies that can cause them long-term health impact. and to not have a system that reinforces that, should be a cause for concern for every parent. and every coach and every athletic trainer. i do not think we want to put our children that sort of position or that conundrum. so i will thank you all for your time. >> -- is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman and l panelists mr. nelson and mr. phelps for putting a face to the athletic advocacy and demonstrating -- to quality unethical disgraceful conduct of those who permit doping to continue to plague and to cheat the integrity of our international competition. i truly appreciate, we truly appreciate your testimony here today. mr. chairman, the scale of the allegations of groping against russia presented in wada's independent investigations are extremely troubling. i would like to understand what sanctions russia will face as a result of the findings. subsequent to the release of mr. mclaren's investigation in july of last year, why does executive committee recommended to the ioc that it declined entry for real 2016 of all athletes submitted by the russian olympic committee and the russian paralympic committee. mr. koeohler, why did wada recommend that it declined all russian entries for these two events? >> i cannot speak on behalf of the executive committee. i can tell you that they reviewed the report and deemed it appropriate and made the recommendations based on a call. >> and as you know, the ioc did not order a collective band of the russian team. instead it deferred to the international sports federation to determine which athletes should or should not compete. in your -- a voice for change he stated quote ãat the summer games in rio and 2016, athletes competed despite not having been subject to credible anti-doping programs. he also pointed out in your testimony that the sports federations had neither the time nor expertise to deal effectively with the follow-up from wada's investigation. case a why moving this investigation to the international sports federation and that has resulted in the credible process where only claim athletes were allowed to compete.>> i am not sure why it was done. the justification for not banning and following wada's recommendation, the russian olympic committee was some justification uncollected justice versus individual responsibility which makes no sense. i don't think when the reasoning meant to enhance the decision on the individual justice to different sports organizations. that will not result in a consistent application in individual cases. i think the justification that has been given does not hold up once it is scrutinized. and i think ultimately it resulted in shaking the system. like it has never been shaken before. if the ioc would have done with the international committee did, and with the international track and field it to ban the athletes in the russian federation's from their games. we are not here today.quite frankly. >> my final question is for doctor budgett. but please feel free to answer if you can. >> guest: this. can you describe for us, and d ãany jurisdiction between those with imposing sanctions for doping charges and those with a vote in determining future olympic host cities. >> i'm not sure i completely understand your question. >> let me repeat this then. can you describe for us any jurisdictional overlap at the ioc, whether direct or indirect. between those tasked with imposing sanctions for doping charges in those with a vote in determining future olympic host cities. >> yes, thank you. i think that is beyond my jurisdiction to answer. but to say for rio, as i mentioned, the jurisdiction over the sanctions was handed over to the court of arbitration of sports. it was not within the isc. and they had started the process of the interesting authority by handing over the sanctioning process to an independent body. and so should be independent from any other function.>> and mr. taggart do you have the desk. >> absolutely there is. in fact, wada recommended to ban the russians. there are members of the executive decision.they also sit on the ioc and when the decision came to the ioc, they voted opposite and how they voted on the wada decision. they wear two hats. they have two different outcomes on the determination and yes, it is the ioc who ultimately books for who is awarded the olympic games. >> mr. carter. >> thank you. >> i yield back mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. chairman. thank all of you for being here. it is commendable that you would take time out to be with us and i especially want to thank you mr. nelson. i'm a fellow georgian. i'm glad to have you here. but the people you don't recognize or do not realize i don't think that we have some really nice food courts in georgia. [laughter] but certainly, not nice enough to warranty being awarded a medal on the and i'm sorry that you had to -- that i understand, i was reading and researching a liver that you first heard about this through a reporter? >> yes, sir. i had no other contact from the ioc or any other movement within the olympic movement. >> doctor budgett? >> what i can say is that the process is an awful lot but are not there has been some fantastic metal ceremonies for athletes who have been re-awarded as a result of reanalysis. >> i am glad about that but what about notifying them? to notify them before the press? >> it should come from the olympic committee. >> before the press is notified, you are to notify the individual. >> of course. >> thank you i'm glad we got that straight mr. nelson. mr. nelson impressed me. i have read your resume. you are kind of the traditional olympian. you just work jobs and trained and just like i think most olympians have. so i can come i think i can relate to you. i will be quite honest with you, full disclosure here, i wanted to be in olympian two. i did. and i will say more about that in a minute. but unfortunately, i ended up not only short but slow. but nevertheless, i had the same dreams. but my question is this, you seem to be, as i say, the traditional olympian. the drug trusting that you had to go through - i am sure it was quite laborious. and it really impacted your personal life a lot. >> i think michael has probably had more testing i experienced in my lifetime i can say that show up at the most and opportune times. but you build a relationship with your collection offices and it is important because they learn about you in the process.it is extraordinarily invasive. >> mr. phelps, would you like to share some stories with us on this as well? rex i agree, i mean for me, i would have training trip to colorado springs and i would have a morning off. i would be woken up at 605 and by the drug testers. and they would not be able to go back to sleep. so you know those are the things that we are doing is athletes to make sure that the sport is clean.t'and i wish i could set that for everyone else. >> can you elaborate on that a little bit? i'm sure you interacted with your competitors. your national competitors? what kind of experiences that they have? to have similar experiences? >> they do not talk about it. >> but i suspect they are not being woken up. at least some of them. i like to think some aren't. >> right. like to think that there is a number of the top 10 whatever be. but i think the international testing paul has a number of athletes that are usually under the same standards. for me the, i mean literally have to fill out every day exactly where i am at that time and if i leave, now this is not working just get on the phone and on the off and say my whereabouts are changing. this is where i'm going. you say what plane you're on, the hotel, what your room is under and everything. that is what we have gone through. i have gone through for 15 or 16 years.>> right. you want to see times buy your ticket accurately for five minutes. but nevertheless, you mentioned something about working with pharmaceutical manufacturers and be notified when and working with them to figure what's regular that you should be looking for. can you elaborate on that quickly? >> very quickly, we have an arrangement with them an agreement. where they will share information on previous clinical trial substances so we can find a way to detect methods and have athletes should be taken. >> i have a few more seconds and i want to say this and i'm not trying to be dramatic but i think it is important. obviously you world-class athletes here. we are very proud of. and are doing more than just competing. there here testifying about a problem trying to affect. and thank you for doing that. this is important that it is fair to them.being world-class athletes. but it is important to a lot of kids around the world. it is important to me. the three of us were the same. we were all in the backyard, we were dreaming. i was standing on a cinderblock looking down at michael phelps and nelson. and i was the olympic champion. and we owe it to those kids, we owe it to those dreamers. to make sure it is fair. >> thank you. >> make sure they have the opportunity. thank you all for being here. >> and we want you acknowledge doctor ruiz. >> thank you. the testimony i have heard today is disturbing on a number of levels. i am outraged that russian officials cheated, broken rules, attacked the integrity of the olympics, you influence the outcome of the olympics for their benefit. a kind of feels familiar, doesn't it? russia's widespread doping and endangered the health of their own athletes. not only did they put their own athletes at risk but they also cheated the millions of athletes across the globe that work hard and stay clean. it also violates the trust between nations who put their faith in the system and work toward the same goals. which is an even playing field for all athletes. we must have the proper checks and balances in place to ensure that no one athlete or one country cheats to have an unfair advantage. i am a physician, dr. budgett, we know that doping is the use of hormones. other natural hormones are synthetic or blood transfusions in order to increase the capacity to carry oxygen. meeting increasing the blood cells, red blood so that could cause a high risk for stroke, pulmonary embolism and other serious life-threatening health problems. we are seeing this in the emergency department with young athletes. what are the symptoms that you can tell a parent or a coach, someone out there in the community to watch for in case they are using this type of drug enhancing -- performance enhancing drugs. >> thank you. as i said in my statement this is a health attack and athletes. and so often they are the victim's. and he often goes from supplements, then there is a widespread use of supplements in sports. then on to the use of prohibited substances. >> what are the signs and symptoms for parents and coaches to look out for? >> there are particularly signs of masculinization in women particularly. -- >> since am halfway through my time i'm going to direct my questions to our nation's heroes mr. nelson and mr. phelps. you are a recent father. i'm a recent father. i have twin daughters sky and sage. i cannot wait until they had to defy with their dreams and i know that there are a lot of kids out there that look up to you who in my district, who want to accomplish greatness. their greatness. what you tell them when they are pressured to use drugs that will enhance their performance? mr. phelps, if you look at them now and can speak for my camera. >> my biggest thing is, my whole journey started with a dream. that was it. and as i said earlier, my coaching i decided that we were going to come up with a plan. we will go to train on holidays. we're going to change every day of the year. we were never going to take a day off for an extended period of time. and get those 52 extra days, studies for example because there were trained on sunday. we would get those 52 extra days and anyone else it would. we are one step ahead of everyone. if you want to be great, you have to do things other people are not willing to do. and for me, it was not always fun getting up at 7:00 a.m. on a sunday and going to swim but you know what? wanted to accomplish my goal bad enough that nothing is going to stand in my way. i think that, like i said in the end, i hope somebody breaks my record. i hope i have a chance to see that. because it shows you that kids are truly, they're going to attack their dreams and their goals. they going to go through hard times of course. we all do.but they're not going to give up. and that is something i did in my career, i never ever gave up. no matter how hard it got. and it got pretty hard at times. it got challenging. for me i just would love to see that in kids and the future of sports to be able to have that power that you can get from your mind. and not being afraid to dream. >> thank you. mr. nelson what would you tell the kids that are being pressured or flirting with the idea of doping to enhance their performance? >> the first thing i was a strict parent is that it's okay to have this conversation. my dad sat down with me when i was 16 years old because i was a big guy and i was already lifting weights at the time and he said, quite honestly said i'm going to diss on you if you ever do this. that was enough for me. we had a conversation about it. so set their expectations early. the second basis to talk about with the spirit of an olympian really is. so we focus on the medals but most of what happens as an olympic athlete happens when no one else is watching. you have to have a gold medal process. and the processes must be based on principles. that is up to the parents. that is up to the people to decide what those principles are. if you allow this to come into your life at any level, you are promoting this particular issue in a negative light. that's what i would say. >> thank you very much. >> mr. wahlberg michigan for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you to the panel for being here. i appreciate this discussion. -- how does wada evaluate the role of other individuals in the anti-doping violations. for example a coach, when they find out nothing has tested positive and then ultimately find out it was a coach that encouraged him or her to dope. what happens? what is the punishment for the coach? >> that is the responsibility of the national anti-doping organization and the international federation. but when an athlete does test positive and are sanctioned, there is a requirement for the national anti-doping organization, the international sport federation to look at the entourage and see if there was influence. in the beings uncomprehendingly now? allen thicke sapir should be more? i believe so. >> we know then the coaches have potential going on training other athletes the same way. i mean, are we doing something to get at that? >> if the coaches found to be complicit in assisting athlete they will be sanctioned. but there has to be the mechanisms to explore that. >> would you like to respond? >> it is critically important to break down the systems in place that as we heard earlier, they abuse their own athletes like in russia. and let's be clear the athletes had very little trace of any but to participate in this sport system and state system. that is abuse of those russian athletes. and we ought to do everything possible to stop the abuse by systems of individual athletes. and it is exactly why we were so frustrated when the ioc refused to take any meaningful sanctions against the system that abuse those, their own athletes in this process. >> and that's where it is up to the community to do that. ultimately sanctions have to be sure, complete otherwise it will be more and more people like me that refuse to watch this figure skating going on. i am just sensing something is wrong there. i wish you well on that. mr. nelson, mr. phelps and mr. phelps, covertly. i have to get that. i was a wrestler in high school and college. i don't think that would have changed the outcome in any way shape or form for my opponent or myself. but i never will forget watching dan gable who is a contemporary of my peers and wrestled him and there were many reasons why. but at the finals, watching, 1971 1971 and watching him against the guy in washington coming to the last seconds of the final period. gable lost by one point. as a result of a reversal. and knowing that gable had never lost high school or college ever, this is the first loss in his career. he spent the next time before the olympics beating his vice submission. when a gold in the olympics and that is a sport, that is the thrill you are talking about. knowing most of us will only experience that by watching someone else doing and mr. nelson your giving me hope that that final second, the reversal against chicago may i will get that deduction if the two of you, in your opinion what motivates athletes to use performance-enhancing drugs? beyond just a win. what motivates them? >> i don't know. i mean that is the only thing i can say. it is somebody who has completed clean for over 20 years. i have no clue what somebody would do or why they would do that. >> mr. nelson. >> i'm a little older. i can remember having conversations with some of the older athletes. back in the 1990s. and one of the things that was very common at that time, i can remember having a conversation with one specific thing.he said you cannot grow 20 meters clean. had agreed judgment on what they can do by themselves. they never gave them selves enough time to develop the skill set necessary. in my response was no you can't. >> but you play. >> i believe so, and i did. i believe that could. so to answer the question specifically, i think is a combination of insecurity and at some level, the culture that they surround themselves with and says this is the answer, this is the way forward.so until we find the answers that question, and able to delegate the athletes to a conclusion, we have to have sanctioning bodies.that are resolute and doing whatever it takes to go above that evil nature as it were. and make it fair for guys who will not do that at any cost. thank you for being part of this panel. >> thank you gentlemen. i never recognize this for iraq to request that he very much mr. chairman. i want to thank everybody for coming today. i was really encouraged to hear you say that you, your organizations are interested in making change. and i understand, i think that your direct testimony has been really helpful. >> -- we have the kinds of same situation where the intentions were good they just were not getting their and i think because of elimination that we had another hearing nuts people. i asked, we've been investigating this for a long time. we configurable we need to do for the funding and we can do it soon. so we were just talking. i'm hoping will have another -- and i'm hoping that the various organizations will come to that hearing and tell us the changes they're going to make. >> as i listen to everything you say i am thinking where my office is in pennsylvania. free gold medalist from their, a guy named kirk engle who used to run up the hill with students on his back. or susan mcconnell, a basketball player or this new swimmer, outstanding people. it is amazing to think with all of the things going on that people like that can still shine and get their gold medal. mr. nelson hope to get the star-spangled banner played for you sometime. we've heard a lot of commitments to reform the system. particularly, dr. budgett and -- we commit to this committee to keep us informed of your progress on these reforms and reappear after mrs. committed? >> on behalf of the world anti-doping agency i can confirm that. >> -- >> we have testimony so i asked for those documents into record. >> without objection. >> in conclusion i want to thank all of the witnesses that participated in today's hearing and remind members and 10 business days to submit questions to the record. and when this is all a way to respond promptly to questions. >> again thank you for attending the hearing. we are adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> now live coverage of the u.s. senate. members are gathering to make their way over to the house came before president forms for fees before a joint session of congress

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