Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20150410

Because after all, we have been taught that the pilgrims that squanto taught them to warn them of had a good crop that first year. In exchange 21 they wanted to have a big cities to celebrate and to give thanks and play a little folk all. And that is how all of this began. Our modern understanding of thanksgiving is very much a 20th century invention. It was not a holiday that was marked throughout the first 300 years of europeans being permanently settled in the new world. But now it is entered American Mythology as true and squanto as a central part of the myth. What is not so much a part of our understanding of this. Was king philips war which followed about 40 years after the arrival of the pilgrims was an absolutely devastating war between the english and the dutch and it was ferocious probably the greatest percentage of the population of all of these peoples was killed, more than in any other american conflict. So it was absolutely defining of their relationship in the historical memory in new england for generations thereafter. King philips head was severed and placed on a pole that was planted at the entry to plymouth for 20 years as head sat on that poll. So that gives you some sense of how strongly they felt about indians. Many of the indians by the way of our allies, but they fared no better for having been allies of the pilgrims and not allies of king philip. In new england i absolutely hated indians. And yet 100 years later when they sent to the Boston Harbor to throw the t. Over and challenge the wording of the king, they chose to express their desire for liberty and their identity is not english men as americans by doing what . By dressing up as indians. Isnt that interesting . You see how indians become defined and made into whatever people need at that time and in that place and this is just the best example. They go from king philips head on a pole to within 100 years been the very symbol of what it means to be an american and we are fascinated by that and we think it is important people understand the connections and understand the story with us so we can figure out just how all this works. Why do we remember what we remember . Why do we forget the things we forget . Because the more significant event was king philips war. It was not the first thanksgiving. But we dont learn about king philips war in our formal education. We learn a sanitized version of the first thanksgiving and we want our visitors to ask themselves a couple questions. We want them to say i didnt know that and then we want them to say why didnt i know that . Why wasnt i taught this . Because it is kind of important. Its more important than knowing they had dinner together one day to note the subsequent history was. Similarly pocahontas has a lot of mythology associated with her. Pocahontas was essentially the most famous teenager in the world. She was like a kardashian or something, gossip about throughout the world. This is a depiction of the famous story or she save john smith from being executed by her father. There is but one source for this story. Everyone has learned this right . Most of us will told the story and it was in the disney movie so it is got to be true. There was one source for this story and it took hold. The source was a highly fictionalized biography of john smith, autobiography. So john smith ffoxtrot to sell some books. As to be a great story but most historians agree this would never happen. Think about the whole that pocahontas still here fighting with light pocahontas so much . Once again pocahontas was the friendly indian who realized the need for civilization and did her level best to accommodate it. The pocahontas was a real person and not a very short and tragic life. She died at 23 in england having married john rolfe. They had a single fun together. In virginia their jim crow laws and their miscegenation statutes did not acknowledge indians at all. If you are indian, under virginia law to your color. They have the one drop rule. If any of your ancestors with african african american, if you two were colored in your subject to the segregation laws that jim crow embodies. There was a single exception to that and it was the pocahontas exception that if the indians whom you were related happen to be pocahontas commented you are not just white. You are extrawide. It didnt get any better than being related to pocahontas. All of the first families of virginia spent enormous effort trying to establish that they too were descendents of the one child of pocahontas and that was embodied in the laws of virginia. It is right there. So thats really weird right . Once again we want people to say why on earth would they do Something Like that . Once again theyve taken pocahontas a real person and made her into something they need to establish just how american they are and that is what is got us intrigued. There she is. Okay. I am going to skip through these because we are just about out of time. I do want to point out the stereotyping starts out early wistar propagandizing our children at a very early age. This is a common play item. You would be stunned if you are to Google Indian costume. Youll be amazed how many versions of this there are and how many kids are dressing up as indians for thanksgiving just like the member said that tammany society. Blue indians. So these kids can be forgiven for not having a particularly good idea especially kids in parts of the country where there arent a lot of indian people, where they are unlikely to encounter indian people in their daytoday lives or certainly their school lives, so they do get confused. They can be forgiven for not knowing that indians dont look like that in fact there still are indians. Now, this is a wellintentioned teachers somewhere who is teaching her students about thanksgiving as thanksgiving is required content in almost every state in the union. Teachers are expected to teach about giving in some way. This is what they have been teaching. This is innocent play, isnt it . These are kids and they are pretending, which is why kids do and it seems innocent enough. A couple of things. First of all, its rather unlikely they would pretend to be people of any other race than what they are. That would be understand as inappropriate but not when it comes to indians. The other thing is that innocent play turning to this group of Sorority Girls dressing up as indians or frat boys dressing up as indians or a little later hipsters dressing up as indians. These guys. I mean i dont know what that is all about. What is this thing with dressing up as indians . And then it turns into this and becomes commercialized. Victorias secret every year. And of course this. So what starts out as innocent play eventually becomes ignorant and racist and that is why we object. We want to understand the deep roots of this. It is not as simple as some mean man choosing a mean name for his Football Team. Is much more deeply cultural much more embedded in the way we have been taught to understand history and we absolutely believe at the museum that if we can teach history properly and give teachers the proper tools to teach the material that we wont have to worry about this sort of thing in the future because it simply wont be acceptable. Im going to stop fair because they have a very distinguished panel of people who i would like to call upon to come forward now and join me and we can begin a discussion of the issue together. [applause] albright, everyone. We are going to resume now. We have witnessed a very distinguished panel that i want to introduce briefly and then i will begin the conversation before we begin taking questions from all of you. First to my right is Amanda Blackhorse. Amanda is a social worker and citizen of the Navajo Nation. She is known as her work as an activist in this controversy over the name of the Washington Football Team. She is in fact against pro football inc. [applause] to her right is leo killsback. Professor killsback is an assistant professor of American Indian studies at Arizona State. He is a citizen of the cheyenne nation of southeastern montana. His dissertation was entitled the chiefs prophecy, destruction of original cheyenne leadership during the critical area 18761935. It is an epic history of northern cheyenne leaders, governance and leadership system. Please welcome professor killsback. [applause] to my left is jim warne. Mr. Warne has a bachelors of science are at Arizona State university and an ms from san diego State University. He also earned postgraduate certificate in rehabilitation administration. He is the pr corning trade nader threw the san diego State University and her work institute. Jim administers the post Employment Training American Indian rehabilitation Postgraduate Certificate Program and a trainer at inner work institute. Hes also president president of his own Consulting Firm and very significantly was a Football Player for Arizona State university when they won the rose bowl. [cheers and applause] and played in the National Football league. [laughter] last but not least, dr. Suzan shown harjo. Suzan is muskogee and an advocate for American Indian rights. Poet, writer, lecturer, curator and policy advocate who has helped me to the recover more than 1 million acres of tribal lands. [applause] after a career in media she moved to washington d. C. To work on National Policy issues. She served as Congressional Liaison for Indian Affairs and the president Jimmy Carter Administration and later as director of the National Council of american im sorry, the National Congress of American Indians. I knew that sounded wrong. Suzan is president of the morningstar institute, National Native American Rights Organization and most recently was the recipient on November November 24th of last year at the president ial medal of freedom, the United States highest civilian honor. [applause] so lets start with the one of lies who has dealt with this issue facetoface so to speak. And that is june. Jim, you spent some time as a professional Football Player. What are your memories and how do you remember this mascot and how did you feel about that when you were playing . First of all thank you is this on . I dont see them on or off button. Thats about as far as i go. Is this better . Again, thank you for an excellent presentation and providing a quick history regarding not only mascots, but Indian Country. I guarantee you that some of our nonindian kids in the room right now will probably get more Indian History than their whole curriculum will teach them in america. That is the reality and that is the ignorance by design that i like to say is what we are dealing with in america is ignorance by design. Products of the Education System in america, therefore how would they know the truth unless they went outside of our curriculum to know that. I was drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals and has some experience with tampa bay bucs in years. In a hobbit they call themselves a professional journeyman. It was a professional refugee and the football leagues. But that experience with all of the different mascots. As i have grown older, i like to call myself. Its been even more so with the efforts of many of the panelists here in Indian Country trying to get the truth out there. I did play against Florida State and they did have the horse on our field at sun devil stadium. As a young person, a product of American Education fortunately had my mother, Beverly Warne who many of you know was at Arizona State. It is encountering our teachers and many of my teammates. What do you think my nickname was at Arizona State . Yep, chief. With some of the nicknames my teammates had i reliably took it because some of them were pretty bad. That was coming from a level of respect because no one else in this world can call me chief other than my teammates. Its an interesting dynamic that i was one of the first to have long hair in professional football and this was in the nfl europe days. I got a lot of attention and Sports Illustrated wrote an article called the urban indian for one i grew up in urban phoenix but still had my native roots. His lengthways terror flu. I said well, i wish i had waist length hair. But that imagery when i saw the young men grow that beard in the middle of our field aye that aint a seminal guy. And so i remember that it wasnt necessarily the players. In fact it was never the players. Only once did i have an issue regarding race and i had a great game i will admit because that got me an extra element of anger that i did not have before. But he was usually the fans and that was a very depicting picture. I dont have the power points but i will put this up there. How many of you here in this room are insulted by this . How many would you allow this to happen in your homes or in front of your children . This is not right in america today. Why are we still discussing this now . It is so loud. The last bastion of racism here when we cannot use the or the f. Word for gay and lesbian, but they are trying to keep ss as caricatures and that is something insulting to me but fortunately i didnt see the fans because i was too busy on the field was somebody in front of me. That is something that is a result of that and as a player i didnt get too much because fortunately i was a good player and most people did not want to irritate me on the field. True racism is ignorance and unfortunately true american curriculum we have ignorance by design and that is what we are experiencing. Leo you teach native american studies. Is this an issue you discussing your class and how does the conversation tend to go . We cover this in her introductory course. I see the introductory course as a starting point for what we offer because there is so much to cover. A lot of a lot of folks enter thinking they will learn about rather shallow topics about indian leg buckskin and beats or learn how to do rituals. I have students from the very beginning what they expect and some of them are very honest and sometimes they are naive. The fact that they are involved in my class i commend that effort because it shows they actually want to learn something about indian people. We cover a lot of the topics that were already discussed not in depth of course because that would mean more reading for the student and want students to learn how to read and write as well. The other classes that i teach the film class that i offer focuses directly on the stereotypes of indian people are beginning what the initial colonization of native america and we talk about movies even mainstream movies. One of the movies that have come out now is to move the american sniper and the character in there, a lot of newspaper articles published that talk about how he actually viewed the iraqi people as savages and one of the renowned scholars has an entire boat dedicated to this savagery. Actually two books. When introduced the concept of this seemingly endless battle between civilizations and tribalism or parade around as the indian wars, indian conflict. A lot of times i will get students to perceive history as if it were a Football Game as if it were two opposing teams playing when you deconstruct the paradigm and introduce a different paradigm and you focus the issues of colonization around land that is really very quickly because everyone in america is from some indian land especially for my nonindians to us to ask them where they are from and what indian tribe or nations live there now, which once were there before contact. Very surprisingly, a lot of folks even Indian Students dont know too much about their local histories. So after the initial discussions about area types, i think we can move the conversation forward but there are still some folks who want to remain in this notice study because it has become such a national issue. I encourage them to dig deeper to examine some of the origins of these images and we get a lot of good discussions and presentations about scalping the bounty that indian people, the image is at the indian people drenched in red blood and some of the sources of these names. So for the most part my experience as a professor has been initially very positive. Take up the field experiences were students there at first very standoffish where they have long hair and speaks an indian language and comes from an indian community. Some students really appreciate that. Some students are concerned that i may be too biased and they would rather learn Indian History from a white person i guess. [laughter] already. So amanda, how is it that he became the lead plaintiff in a suit challenging the trademark of the Washington Football Team at your tender age . Him okay. Good evening everyone. Amanda blackhorse [speaking in native tongue] so i became involved in this case in 2052 mac 2006. I was attending the university of kansas at the time and i was just learning actually about the history of our people. I did not receive the education when i was in middleschool or high school. I received the education that there was thanksgiving. Columbus discovered america and pocahontas and sacajawea. And i was there. So when i got to go to college, i learned the true horrors of our history not just as native people, but as an american person and i was very, very shocked and i even cried because it was so horrific. I think at that point is when i really realized that we are all living a lie that the history is made by the colonial powers and as an Indigenous People we have a history that is far bigger than whatever it is they are teaching us in school. So i got to meet up with some other students and we were all sort of very active in our Little Community they are. We were all hungry for knowledge. We are a group of radical, Young College students who wanted to learn more about our culture who wanted to challenge the status quo. And so it got together as a group. It was called not in our honor. We decided to protest at the Kansas City Chiefs and the Washington Team game in kansas city in 2005. And it was they are that my eyes saw some very horrific things that i had never seen before. I have experienced racism in the border towns of the Navajo Nation and this was nothing like that. Usually people would in the border towns or in our School System would save these horrible things to you but in private. You know, everyone was kind of hushhush about it and no one really challenged those things. I remember going into the store when i was little and a woman pushing me. I ran into her and i was running around in the store. I hate her accidentally and she said you asking indians. I told my mom and my dad and they were like luscious go get out of here. So we left the store. It was just kind of hushhush. So when i went to this game and just by simply standing there and holding a sign that says i am not your god for people are human beings, not mascots, we recall the worst things we are treated in the most disrespectful way. I was very very shocked and i wanted to do some thing. I wanted to shout back but i couldnt. It was a peaceful protest. But we just stood there in the lab to happen around us. It was okay. It was socially acceptable to demean and degrade American People. People walk by and didnt pay any mind to it. They said whatever, just another game. I thought if this is what these games promote what is this big deal about the nfl and sports . They are actually profiting and making tons of money off of stereotyping native people and the violent behavior directed towards us. It was very eyeopening for me to see firsthand. So if after that that i got in touch with suzanne through a mutual friend of ours. I was very young. But i was learning and i wanted to help this issue. I felt like after what i had seen how could i not do anything . So that is how it began. That brings us to suzan harjo. Youve been at this along time challenging mascots in general. So could you give us a sense in the arc of this controversy where are we right now . Is at the beginning of the end, begin to the beginning or right in the middle. Where are we . Well, the very first mascots in sports that was supposed to be about as come up with a red at the university of oklahoma style in 1870. Since then, weve collectively eliminated two thirds. We have eliminated more than 2000 of them. [applause] there are just over 900 to go. In the meantime, we created a National Museum of the American Indian. So as we are getting rid of them, we are able to confine them to the museums into the history books where they belong. Pretty soon people will sit back and say that happen . There were really those kinds of things . People were so foolish as to believe in this mascots and hold onto them as if they were holding onto a dear relative and try not to dislodge them from their own persona. We have seen time after time that once these mascots are removed once the names are removed once that owner has persona is retired, you really have a better Football Team, a better basketball team. You have a more winning game. So my message to the Washington Football Team was eliminated two thirds of these in american sports. Most of the ones across the country with the same name as the washington franchise had been eliminated have just chosen to get rid of it them selves. And since the Washington Football Team once a great and powerful franchise has not been to a super bowl since we filed suit in 1992. People in my bank and on capitol hill say you still have that occurs. We say now, it is not a curse. It is just karma. It is their own fault. They are doing it to themselves. If they would just throw off the shackles of the same get rid of it have a name change contest, everything would be wonderful for them and we would start winning again. I just dont think they are going to win until they do that. This is in the 23rd year. That is an amazing coincidence. 23 years and they have never been back to a super bowl. In the meantime, there has been a case that has my name for 17 years now Amanda Blackhorse has the privilege and burden of dragging around the lawsuit. We are just going to keep her veiling and prevailing and prevailing and more and more people across the country are seeing the area of their parents or grandparents ways saying we dont want that. That is not who we are. More and more native nations are saying we dont want to use false identities, false personas laid on us anymore. We are not going to take it because that is the root of a lot of our problems. People dont take it seriously because we are not taking ourselves seriously. You have people all over the country, native people saying enough is enough. We are not passing this burden onto our children and grandchildren. It is going to end now. So you have this movement that is just grown and grown steadily. Where are we . We are right up there at the pinnacle and we are looking around at all of these unfortunate souls down in the valley who are saying, what should we do . What should we do . We are a pure saying we have the answer. [laughter] just stop what youre doing. Get some sort of identity. Quit ragging on us and pick something that doesnt offend any other living people. How hard is that . That is our message. And we have already won in societal terms. We have already prevailed because we have a lot of people in society all kinds of people who understand that this is just wrong. Its just wrong. And we know that from some of the polling we have seen for an overwhelming majority of people regarded as offensive or understand why indians might think it is offensive. They would not refer to one of us to our phase by that word. And yet, there is still a majority of people who say the Football Team should be allowed to keep using it. So what is going on there . Well people in america are so used to being racist but that kind of have to hold onto it a little bit. People who have been ill for a very long time but they dont understand and when they start feeling ill again, now im comfortable again because they are not used to be well. So what we are doing is part of the maturation of america say you can live without racism. You can live without bigotry. You dont have to bargain for little pieces of racism. But a lot of them say is we will give you that. Can we call you something what else can we call you . You cant call us anything. Stop the namecalling. This is all coming about the more we learn about the leading the more we learn about the dynamics, the Power Dynamics of people in authority who are imposing their ways and their prejudices. The more we learn about all of these things, the more we learn about this kind of subject. So that is where we are. It is a different kind of thing when you are in a majority population that is used to having people to oppress. You have to just sort of weaned off of it. And say this is a societal disease and we are going to help you get well. We are going to help you. We have the answer here. If i may just go with that in the history of racism. When you think of the Washington Football Team, they were the last to integrate. So theyre great history and tradition, sorry for another picture, but here is the party supported the owner at the time mr. Marshall and their sign says keep the redskins way. Their level of awareness at the time in 1961. So when america and up as they year the nfl owners wrote a letter in support of this gentleman and they honored him as savior because he was fighting for his rights, yet all of those other teams integrated. The history of the redskins were they were the last to allow black skinned and their team. Now we have individuals from africanamericans say what is the big deal. I understand and ive been in the week and its a powerful machine. A lot of guys play now do not want to talk against the league. There is an individual here, Richard Sherman that has guaranteed money so he doesnt fear the league and he has said the nfl and the history proves it and they continue it with the allowance of the redskins name. They have the bravery to do that but he has guaranteed money. He doesnt fear the machine of the nfl. Thats quite a machine. Ive been under it before. When you have this great history and tradition, dan snyder, with the nazi party supporting you and keeping black skins out at the time now we have africanamerican athletes that are prominent and i guarantee you an africanamerican president because the nonindian fans had pictures of Michael Jordan on their walls and i was okay to idolize athletes that were a different color because they were us part of sports. Its an interesting dynamic how athletics has addressed the race issue when you have teams with a variety of cultures in the teams are not perform well together regardless of culture. So again the races history for whatever reason we are the last ones because the nfl tried to stop the use of the in the week. Were they trying to stop nonafricanamericans from using it . No. They are to stop them because they get fined and suspended. There were trying to stop the sub six because it was used amongst africanamericans. We have individuals that will incorporate the negative stereotypical terminologies into their daily language. That is what dan snyder is looking for is where are these guys okay with it so i can showcase you at the india nine note. He said i want the truth and the truth was on a german guy avoiding world war i. That is his truth in terms of a red and justification. Again it is on truth racism and interesting from his is why doesnt he honor his own people and he could create some mascots of his own people and go from there. As was eloquently stated, we are the only ones so far without honor that they keep telling us we dont understand who we are. Yes, we do. I apologize. I know who i am as a lakota men. Keep trying, but we are still here because 90 of us were eliminated, but the last 10 for strong people and now we are descended of those people in this room those tribal members in this room. Again a history some are holding onto very dearly. That is a great point about the machine and the size the scale is the enterprise. Amanda, you have picked a fight with the billionaires club. Either way, and then it is no longer suing the National Football league. The National Football league is suing Amanda Blackhorse in a Federal District court in virginia. So what is that like . It was expected. I think the attitude of the owner who says i will never change in name and you can use that in allcaps is very dismissive patronizing and he acts very much like a bully i feel. With that sort of attitude, i knew this was coming. I feel it is very unfair and very uneven here because i am just another native american person out there who grew up on the Navajo Nation and who went to school to be a social worker so she could go back and help her people and you are going to sue me. I dont feel honored at all. And so been sued by a billionaire you know, the individual that i had i feel it doesnt make any sense. Its really a bad move on their part i think. Yeah okay. At this point i would like to open it up to the audience and ask if there are any questions for our panel. So we will have some microphones. Is that correct . And while we are waiting for that to set up, suzanne, could you give a quick, simple as possible explanation of what the trademark challenge was . What were you doing when you initiate that process . Well, i didnt understand it at all until Stephen Baird came to introduce me for a long review article he was working on in 1992. He asked me two questions. He was a patent lawyer from los angeles. He sat why didnt you use the u. S. Patent and trademark board as a cause of action for a lawsuit against the washington football franchise to get rid of the trademark . I said i have no idea what you just said. [laughter] nothing makes sense to me about what you just said. So he walked me through it and said there is the trademark trial and appeal board and the patent trademark and the line that says you cant have the trademark license on material or names or images of things that hold other people and hold them up to contempt of things that disparage them. It is just against the law and that has worked in all of these other lawsuits. And i wonder hes sad why you didnt do that. I said because this is literally the first time and never hearing about any of this. Before i let him out at this space we were in he became my lawyer and we talked about mounting the lawsuit that we did. It is a pocketbook incentive lawsuit. It doesnt require one thing i like as a First Amendment champion is that it doesnt require anyone to do anything. What it does is takes away the federal stamp of approval from these racist images, the image and the name. Once you do that, you dont have federal protections then they are not going to keep the name. It is as simple as that. It is not that we are making them do it. It is just we are removing their support and that is what the federal trademark trial and appeal board judges did in our case in 1999. They canceled the license pending appeals and then escape through the loopholes of laches which we can go into or not. It just means the passage of time and it means how long you waited the way theyve made it a lot for this particular case, how long youve waited after turning 18 before filing the lawsuit. That is why when i organized the black blackhorse case they were closer to eight team than they were 24 comments so they wouldnt have the same technical problem we had. We didnt lose on the merits. We know they lost on a technicality. So we resolved a technicality in the second lawsuit and the trademark trial and appeal a judge as went in the same direction in our case and gave the blackhorse plaintiffs a favorable decision and in 2014 canceled the trademark licenses. They are removing the federal imprimatur. They are saying we are not backing you. So that is a really good day that it is more and more of society saying we are withdrawing any support you thought you had. So that is really the lawsuit and it is Pretty Simple and has all of the things for the ordinary person like me who never heard this has been going on. No one told me. Yeah so it even as im in no to win her case the team doesnt have to stop using the name right . But it will have been devalued hopefully sufficiently that they will choose to no longer use that. So that is really the strategy behind all of that. Any questions from you all . Yes, please come to the microphone a few words. If you would. My name is justin moore. I have a question. As mark has indicated capitalism is a revolutionary force that includes everything including human beings. Dan snyder in chile. My question is what is your response to ben chailly and dan snyder sitting together at the arizona washington game . Okay, so i think mr. Shelley at the varying favorable president at this time. Because he has done some very [applause] has done some things that are very questionable. When i heard he was sitting up in the box seats, i knew that this was another trick of the Washington Team, id dan snyder because they had been going through Indian Country and trying to find any native American Group President Council member or whoever to endorse then and they looked far and wide. It was like a campaign to look for anyone willing to do that for them. They got that with the code talkers. Actually just two or three of them. Not the code talker association. They got a couple. They got the Navajo Nation president and make some groups out there. And there are also groups who turned down their gifts as well, too. I think that was just part of a strategy they were using and they got ben chailly. I said i am very ashamed of him as a president that he would do that with such a controversial person at such a controversial time. I actually got a chance to speak with him about it. He was just as dismissive as me as dan snyder has been with me. It is very unfortunate because i feel like we could sit down and have a conversation about it. The Navajo Nation going into a deal with the navajo arts and crafts enterprise is why people say there is so much poverty on the reservation. This will create jobs. This will put our money into our economy. But at what expense . At what expense are you going to basically sell out . So that is what i think about that. I think it is a personal decision on his part because the Navajo Nation council does not support the Washington Team. [applause] yes. Hello my name is neglect to cheney. Im a doctoral student studying the Public Policy. You mentioned earlier that indians are malleable to another institution, whatever their need is. So i guess my question and anybody else can answer this, it do. How are the perceptions of American Indians how does that impact policy . Im thinking of particular answers. Indians were wars of the state when he was discussing giving up oak flat. That is sort of the mentality perhaps if you could comment on that and afterwards i do have another announcement. Im sorry, what was the last thing . I have an announcement. Well, the way you would expect, right . If people are imaginary, if you are understanding indians based on these imaginary indians that they have been taught about, then they are not going to grasp the depth and complexity of the contemporary issues native American People are bringing forward. When i speak with tribal leaders about museum i say look we have all had this experience and as a tribal attorney and lobbyist for 15 years, had the experience every time there is an election you get a new set of members of congress for county commissioners are state legislators who know they dont know nothing about indians. They know less than nothing because they have been misinformed their entire life. We have to start at the beginning again and very slowly work forward to bring them to some sort of understanding of why we are sitting there. You have to explain simple a black tribes are governments. They are not clubs. They are not just a bunch of people who hang out together that they are government and that is a very old idea that they have always been government the reservations were not given to indians, that there is a reason they are called reservations. They are reserved by the indians. And so you have to overcome a lot of these ideas before you can even get to zero and then Start Talking about the complexity of issues. So that is why we are always in a race where we have to start 200 yards behind and are still expected to win. It affects policy in all of those things. He would be astounded at how little some people in positions of genuine authority over native american nations. He would be appalled how little they know about this history. And so, naturally the outcomes are not optimal and not what we hoped for. I appreciate that. I do want to make an announcement if that is okay. Im involved in organizing an individual happening or not. A lot of you guys have received the flyers already. It is to drive awareness and connection between how native americans are perceived and the impact it has on violence against women. I hope you guys will help support in attending. Very good, thank you. [applause] is jims still here . I cant see him. Im sure he asked. How much longer do we have . Okay, good. I would like to introduce myself. My name is leonard rivers from salt river, arizona community. I wanted to mention i guess living and growing up around the metropolitan area scottsdale, mesa tempe south hills and all those good cities it was really hard growing up, but especially the media that encouraged and basically turn this into the european attitude culture that we kind of assimilated to wanting cowboys to win over indians in the movies. I was a cowboys fan growing up because of the cowboy name. It was tough. I really appreciate you all being Strong Enough and smart enough to tell the truth. I worked with the community council, the political side of things. I remember when i first got on council in 1998 working with some representatives from mesa. Mesa is right next to us and has been one of the friendliest communities we had that we worked with for a very long time. These representatives have never been on the reservation. They didnt know where the boundaries were. They didnt know other people that lived there. They had no ideas with the issues were. They were the ones representing mass in the state issues. I say this because i think the apathy we have native americans are First Americans have, i think that needs to be really worked on and i am glad that again we have people like you and different people around the nation that are doing that. I think, again, with hoping us understand this is going to be a big victory down the road and hopefully in communities including ours will be able to take this stuff and really understand and try to put a bigger effort in making sure that we avoid that. So thanks. Thank you. [applause] that brings something in my to me. Leo, most of your students i assume our native students in the introductory course. Do they come with a real working knowledge of native American History . Be honest. Be honest. To be honest, no. Its a great disappointment because i wish that a native high schools, or in high schools with Large Populations of indian people or even just all high schools in states with Large Population of indians have some standardized history lessons or something to connect students to contemporary issues. Theres such a huge gap and our goal as professors is to try to fill that gap and sometimes, sometimes i feel like we are not doing a good job because when you get at the collegiate level students who have to enrolled in your classes. They can take, you dont have to take indian classes. So theres need for improvement. Okay. Im dashed okay thank you. I would like to thank you for speaking her mind and allowing me to speak mind. Why dont you just hold it . It will be easier. Weekender you. Okay. But i was watching the news when the whole march minarets gens game during the redskins game and i was wondering how people like you guys thought about people that supported the redskins that were native americans . And i just wondered what you thought about that. Thats a good question. Suzanne, jim . How do we feel about the people, the native people who support them . Yes. Well, bless their hearts. [laughter] so they will learn in the future, and they want to be with the winners and they think they are by cozying up to the nearest racist white person against them. And they think that means winning. They think it will save them because we are being racist against someone else. So it its sort of like an abused child. Dont hurt me you and him fight. Thats whats going on here. Theyre not the ones we are upset with. We are not upset with the indians who can be rented or bought or who just willingly go with what they perceive is the winning side. And theres no equivalence between the few native people who line up with the Washington Football Team owner and all the major National Native organizations who were on one side saying enough is enough get rid of all these racist stereotypes in sport. Especially you Washington Football Team. [applause] one navajo official does not offset the fact that the medicine Mens Association and the Navajo Human Rights Commission and the Navajo Tribal council are all on one side. Saying no, we dont like that name. So just one person doesnt offset all of these native people and the people that all of these native organizations represent, entities. We are on the side of the overwhelming navy few of all of this and population and presence, and very comfortably so. I mean its really a happy place to be, to be not just in the mainstream but wait in the majority, and we are all moving in the same direction. So the fact that you have a few over here kind of stragglers who might be limping along for people who want to ride in the wagons of the white people who think they are hurting us thats okay. Because theyll catch up and then pretty soon once we definitively win everything then they will be at the front of the line leaning into our pictures saying, look what we did. And we will welcome them. Already doing that. You know, the other thing is maybe, jim, you could come on this comment on this but it feels like when the team is out there with their foundation and trying to generate tribal support and blessing indian people to the game that theyre trying to get us to fight with each other bussing we just refused to do that. First of all thank you my young person for representing and a good way. This is why we are doing it for you and the generation of today. [applause] and i believe you are discussing the oath, i like to call it the original American Foundation that Daniel Snyder suddenly produced 10 months ago. Because hes suddenly wanting to do good things for indian people. So that, at least that has happened to where he is now providing money to tribes that are willing to support him. So again, so those tribes that refuses money, those are the ones that have really gotten that message in terms of where we stand as people in america. When we are on the reservation were trying to survive tomorrow because back home in pine enriched my people are trying to survive. This is not a big issue when survival is the number one issue. But overall when were talking about how the perspective of us infiltrates our governments they are also ignorant by design, our senators and congresspeople, because they are products of American Education. And less they went overseas to europe or asia where they teach more about American Indian history than we do here then they will not know about it. And when we start 200 yards kind as they become it is really true because 15 states dont have tribes. Therefore, 30 senators dont have to do anything for Indian Country. So we are already starting way behind when were going into the halls, and ive walked those calls and talk to those pimply faced staffers they send out and i will discuss issue at a high level on Indian Country but what do i have to do . Back to indian 101. Just so they can at least understand who i am as a person and then they dont understand why are you doing this. Youll have casinos. You are all rich now. Im sorry, how much did donald trump give your family . You are all rich now. Its that level of ignorance is the frustration, but its happening and the efforts of suzan and many others over the years passed and people are getting that information. So keep up the good fight young person. We appreciate you. [applause] my name is donna, and this is my son. Used 12. We live here in the valley, and my other two children are up there. I just want to say thank you for all your efforts. I had a conversation with amanda last friday, so ive been a part of this effort since i was in high school. My mother was very much involved, and i remember wearing the promotional tshirts and sweatshirts with the pennant on it, with the different names where it says like the new jersey jews and the different names, the different takes on it. I wore it for 30 days straight in high school to make a statement. And i got harassed. I got chased home. I fought almost everyday for 30 days. So if you think this doesnt impact youth, im an adult that grew up being impacted by these stereotypes and mascots. I grew up in a small farm town in nebraska where i was probably the only brown person in an eight county radius. So i heard it for every single racial group. So if you a lot of people say that this is new, that they havent heard of it where is this coming from. Im in my 40s. That happened 30 years ago. Its still happening today. My kids still get teased about their long hair. I just want to say thank you and i really see some momentum with this effort. And im so proud of every everybody and everybodys efforts, so thank you very much. [applause] thank you. My name is dan quickly and im not a native american. I was asked to come in to speak by a friend of mine, peter mcdonald, the president of the Navajo Code Talkers Association and he cannot make it because of weather issues. You often call people of native heritage that cheer for these teams sellouts, traders. Amanda, ive seen you chase people in the stadiums with their families yelling that they are sellouts and traders. I just wonder with all the issues, native americans in general suffer and i know its a very diverse culture but the last credible Polling Company to take this issue on was in 2004 and they found 90 support behind these names. Isnt the fight for kind of being created by you guys . I met him why dont you go first and then suzan . Well, first of all i did not chase anyone down, run anyone down or any of that. Im not sure where you got that from. I was there sorry. [inaudible] there were a lot of people that were there and who seem a lot. I think the 2004 annenberg poll is associated press, annenberg poll yes. Okay, outdated first of all. 2004 was 10 years ago. In the last 10 years many, many things have changed including this movement. A lot of peoples minds have changed, native American People and nonnative American People. And i think when you look at polls, we are very, very misguided because we are looking at numbers. We are looking at several people participating in these things. The validity of them are just, its not there. And so i always ask would you lead a Civil Rights Movement to a poll . No. Because this is a movement. This is a change movement that is not going anywhere anytime soon. [applause] when i hear terms like overwhelming majority in things like that, and i believe you even mention some polling took some wondering where that came from . Suzan, why dont you talk about the in the purple . Okay, we do not account and we do know our organizations have members, have constituents but they are responsive response to and responsible for carrying out their wishes. And since the late 1960s and early 1960s for some organizations are Major National organizations have all been moving in the same direction. And they represent the overwhelming majority of native people. Thats how we know what we are talking about. I used to run one of them the National Congress of American Indians. One of my coplaintiffs in a lawsuit ran the council of the American Indians in the 60s and i in the 80s. We were not new to this. And you wonder about all the other important issues. We are the ones who did these more important issues. People who ask that question dont do anything for my people. And peter mcdonald, for crying out loud when he was in power he stole from the navajo people. When he thats inaccurate. Who voted to represent them. He was convicted and he went to prison for ripping off the people. So i dont call him a sellout. I call him a thief. Thats what he was convicted of. [applause] now you you and probably you do, i dont know much about you guys are all put up to this by billionaire dictator and ceo of the Knight Commission incorporate her right 2 who pays for all your travel [booing] out of work social worker cant fly across the country every week unless she is being bankrolled. And thats where ray comes in. No, no, no. No. But this is very valuable. Let him finish. You, sir are the one who basically when you had of Indian Affairs were against the will of his own people that recognize him federally as a leader of that nation. Its not a nation, its a corporation and hes a billionaire up against billionaires, right . So you guys are playing a trick on people trying to act like this is a liberal issue when it really isnt. Im a liberal got to if i really thought you guys were fight racism i would be Holding Hands with you. Well, thank you. Lets have somebody else speak. Thankthank you very much. Thank you for demonstrating exactly what we are here for. We do appreciate those perspectives. Keep talking. Please keep talking in another forum. [applause] you call my friends ignorant and their native americans and their ignorant because they choose 14 you dont like . This guy this guy went to mit and asu and he is not ignorant. Hes not uneducated. We see you come within indian. [laughter] excuse me. We met here. He didnt come with me and i didnt come within. I just met him yesterday. The fact is that a majority of native americans support these names. Thank you. Sit down. Lets go ahead and have two more questions. My name is christopher. Proud graduate of home of the warriors. Redskins redskins fan and till i was five result. Ive always been around native mascots. Ive always traveled with the teams, go off the reservation and play being a fan of the redskins. Its always been a part of my life. For someone like me is i identified with the team to identified with the name and with the logo. And thats always been a source of pride. Im not the only one. We are not ignorant. We are not uneducated. We know why we are fans and why we support this team. Sports is a big joining factor and for us this is a sports issue. We can gather around this and support each other and be proud. Theres nothing wrong with that if youre a redskins fan. If youre a native and a redskins fan or any offense of the other teams. Im not a fan of the other teams but the redskins have always been the one i started with when i was, like i said five years old. Thats where started out and thats always been with me. So did a lot of these comments, because this is such a divisive issue. Its probably the most divisive thing that ive seen in a lot of issues and i think a lot of you guys do a lot of good work you know . Teaching allowed your activism your energy is awesome. Being the head of the Smithsonian Institute and your work, being a hero to a lot of kids. Youth made a lot of did a lot of great things and we heard that through your introduction. But i think for some reason this issue is huge. Its such a divisive thing that would you going to comments on twitter, facebook, you just youre back and forth youre a sellout, youre a racist youre a half breed, you dont count the everything back and forth and ive never been a part of an issue or other issues we just seen natives fighting each other. To me its like how do we stop this . Whats going to be to unite his to better causes, to Better Things . Personally i dont believe that native mascots or native things hurt. Luckily i was born surrounded by, you know in a native community, navajo community. Went back to my grandparents house. Ive always been a part of some type of native whether its traditional ceremony and everything is will so im lucky in that way. Ive also lived off the reservation. I lived in boston for 12 years. I finished and asu but moved back to boston for 12 more years and it was never an issue. Every time i would wear my redskins coach walk around, nothing. No one ever said anything to me but there are there are stereotypes and i have come across them and ive come across racism. Ive been called many things, but a lot of this and for a lot of other fans like myself its never been about the sport. The only thing about sports for us is its a uniter something weve been able to stick together. I guess what im down to my question is whats the end result if this happens . Its dividing people right now. Thats, i think thats the scary part of that. It doesnt give you cause that doctor manly used to be the principal of the school, was a plaintiff in the original lawsuit against the Washington Football Team or that a Navajo Commission on human rights and the medicine in association and the Tribal Council are all on one side of this issue and you and Amanda Blackhorse and you are on another . Doesnt that give you cause just for a moment . No, because as i said this is not only been about pride for me. I know the person who didnt have the Nation Council is a lawyer. A native mascots, its a redskins bashing thing is what comes down to. You talk about native image. In navajo we have three of them warrior, scouts and redskins. I follow joshua. I went through the. He introduced me to the accounts, went to a council nine people. Its never been to the full council and hes never done anything else. They are trying to impeach him because he doesnt do anything. This was his one chance to get into the National Picture and Indian Country today ran an article about it. A small little story. Thats what im saying is there are some people that try to take advantage, and i understand that you guys have your issues and have your side, and i respect fully disagree with you guys. But im not trying to change your mind. What i want people to know is that theres a lot of natives like me that are fans and we find pride in this team we find pride in the name as a unified to get to gettogether. We know what the greater weight of the people, the people fall. And right now most of our people are moving in one direction. And the people on your side of the issue are not as vocal anymore. Its good that you are being vocal about it and you still have passion about it and we civilly disagree but were going to prevail. I disagree with that. I dont think theres a majority. Its an overwhelming majority and you may take issue with that that [applause] i i disagree with that because i know plenty more and were starting to speak up more now. National congress of American Indians, National Indian just go right through them, go right through them and how many native people they represent, how many people they are. Have you been to a National Congress of American Indians Association Meeting . You go there, and not one person is on the other side of the issue. I mean, thats our experience. For those of us who meet and make up these policies, we dont just invent them. We make them up because we all agree on this. Im not saying you are making it. Im just saying i disagree with how youd and thats fine you are august in to do that. Let me point out that you wont scare me certainly, if you havent heard anyone tonight talking about sellouts or traitors. Because thats just not productive. No, no. Im not an educator or ignorant or needing help. Its like i said, its such a divisive issue that its the one that i see the most where people are asking one another. Thanks for coming. Thank you for listening. Ignorance by divine. Thats all i can say is ignorance by design. [applause] this will be our last im afraid were out of time. My name is brandon. I had a great time tonight. I thought the presentation in the panel were awesome. I dont think its a question that these mascots portray a horrible indigenous culture, but what i did see was a lot of that ms. Represented in injury were of men. And so i wonder if you see stereotypes also affect Indigenous Women and how Indigenous Women have been portrayed . And if western colonization has been Indigenous Women as nothing but docile and domesticated . Let me just point out pocahontas was a woman. [laughter] spent i mean as the mascots. Well, yeah. Thats a whole nother lecture. The answer is yes. You know native women are stereotyped in ways that, that invite in essence assault on them. And its an ongoing thing. If you sort of watch the images around native women that shows up in the popular media and Popular Culture its a very old theme that native women are in essence representatives of the land itself, rights and available for plunder. And that was the imagery that was used about native american women from the very beginning when europeans first began reporting back to their country saying, you should see this place, and the women, holy cow. Thats what it was really all about, and so the answer is yes. And i couldve done a powerpoint twice as long with outrageous images of native american women that are contemporary. I think overall when you have this level of acceptance in sporting events, everyone is impacted, nonindian and indian alike. When they are saying theres nothing happening none of this racism happening, last weekend rapid city, south dakota, a group of students who earned their way to a free hockey game through academics, not being indian were doused in fear and called and i apologize to my africanamerican brothers and sisters the use of this term for us back home go home, prayer he that was last week. Was anybody arrested or asked to leave the stadium . No. It had to happen after it became in the press. So again these things are happening a lot and i know that i have young women and young men better that will always have a different perspective because of what happened to them last week. That cannot be allowed anymore and if you can have this kind of imagery and be okay with it and american statistics polling says its okay i say its not. How many of us does it take to say no more . More . Because i care to you if this was an africanamerican head, you would find that the americans to stay this doesnt bother me. Budget also find africanamericans who say no way i will allow this to happen to my people. This is what were asking for is just more understanding and that is what we are having. [applause] with that, we want to thank you all for coming here and listening so carefully and participating in the conversation. I want to want to again thank the Arizona State University College of law, Indian Legal Program for arranging this event him to the heard museum for hosting the event. Thank you all for coming tonight, and we hope you will see you at the heard many times. [applause] [inaudible conversations]. Africanamericans, in postcivil war era. Cspans congressional freshman profile series concludes with montana republican ryan zinki. He reflects on his military service and role as as a official. Well hear from anita mack bride that served as chief of staff to mrs. Bush. Hear that at 9 30 also on cspan next former House Majority leader eric cantor and former health and Human Services secretary Kathleen Sebelius give their perspectives on the Current Health care system. That was held at new york universitys washington, d. C. Campus. Good evening everyone. Im michael orr director of nyu washington d. C. Im happy to welcome to you the abramson family auditorium. Were here for the weisberg forum for the discourse in the Public Square. This is for thoughtful and respectful discussion of controversial contemporary topics an issues. Special things to nina wiseburg around the wiseburg foundation for their generous support of this program. Were greatful for the support of nyus Global Institute of Public Health. The institute is working to arm the next generation of Global Public Health Pioneers with the Critical Thinking skills acumen and entrepreneurial approaches necessary to help solve the worlds most pressings Public Health problems. Please join me to welcome dr. Cheryl hilton, dean of Global Public health and director of the nyu institute of Public Health who will introduce our topic and special guests. [applause] thank you michael, for that kind introduction. Good evening everyone. I am delighted to welcome you to this installment our wiseburg forum on discourse in the Public Square cosponsored by nyud. C. And Global Institute of Public Health. Thank you, nina for the support of the wiseburg family for this important event. If the goal of our forum is to explore elements after law which americans sharply disagree, the Affordable Care act, it is a true case in point of the last month the caser is Family Foundation reported narrowest margin of difference yet. 43 unfavorable towards aca and 14 in support of it. One thing which we all can agree the situation that prevailed before the passage of the caca was not a good one. Over 70 million americans lacked Health Care Coverage and millions more were underinsured and had little access to prevention services. Tonights discussion will help us all better understand the nuances of this intensely debated act but first this complicated law deserves a very brief reform one owe one. I turn to my longtime friend, Joseph A Califano former secretary of health, education and welfare under president carter and previously president johnsons chief domestics advisor. Joe tells illuminating story which i recount here, one can be told in four distinct chapters cliff notes short version of a winding tale about Health Care Access to all americans. Chapter one the years before world war ii. During which Health Insurance itself was actually quite rare. Following the Second World War unions and some large employers began covering Health Insurance for Union Members and employers. Chapter, two president truman was was the president to make truly concerted effort to Pass Coverage for Older Americans and poor but it was swiftly defeated as socialized medicine. He had to settle for a few amendments to the Social Security act. The mills act in 1960 covered poor people and older people but while it was meant for the rural poor, the dollars allocated with consumed by high population states like california, massachusetts, new york, leaving its sponsors quite disenchanded. From the time of president trumans first effort forward, medicaid and medicare was part of the platform. Chapter 3 when president johnson was elected or appointed soon after the death of president kennedy he told mr. Califano we will fight for medicare as long as we have breath in our body. Using failure of the mills act and other issues surrounding the lack of coverage for americans they were able to pass medicare and medicaid linked to welfare system. Under Medicare Part b, doctors were protoke teched from socialized medicine. Allowed them to be compensated for usual and discussion marry fees. They were represented by American Medical Association still then and still opposes quote socialized medicine. President johnson traveled to independence missouri, the birthplace of trumans wife beth to sign the law. Beth and harry truman were given the first two medicare cards. Medicare expansion protected pharmaceutical industry. Some contend that aca protects Health Care Industry skirting efficient approach to insure the nation or medicare or singlepayer approach. Finally were now at chapter four, which raises the question, did the path we set for ourselves then result in a series of bonanzas . First bonanza for doctors and hospitals. Secondly a bonanza for the pharmaceutical industry and third now for the Insurance Industry itself. Or was it as others might argue just the american way . Here we are traveled a long circuit does route to near universal access to health coverage, something enjoyed by citizens of over other developed country in the world. We now stand at crossroads with a Pivotal Supreme Court decision anticipated on king versus burwell in late june and election on horizon in november will we stay the course, if we doesnt e dont what are the implications . For that discussion weve turned first to two people who may arguably no more about the aca tan most people on planet. First id like to welcome secretary Kathleen Sebelius who served as the 21st u. S. Secretary of health and Human Services from 2009 through 2013. She also served as governor of kansas from 2003 through 2009. Secretary sebelius is staunch supporter of the aca. Were honored to have her with us tonight. Were privileged to have with us former House Majority leader eric cantor. He served the 7th Congressional District of the state of virginia in the u. S. House of representatives from 2001 through 2014. Congressman cantor has been a strong voice in opposition to the aca. On a sad note, congressman cantors father, eddie cantor, passed away just over a week ago. Congressman, all of us here convey our heartfelt condolences to you and your family. Finally, it will take a strong moderator to guide this discussion. Professor steve mack man is perfectly suited to this challenge. Steve is an attorney and cofounder of Purple Strategies llc. He got his start in politics on the senate and political staff of Edward Kennedy and worked on dozens of senate, gubernatorial and mayoral campaigns across the country. Steve served in senior roles in three president ial campaigns including including that of president obama. Steve appears regularly as political commentator on msnbc hard ball with Chris Matthews and Andrea Mitchell reports. During the past three Campaign Seasons he was frequent commentator on nbc evening news, abc world news tonight, the today show and cnn and fox news. Join me in a warm nyu welcome for steve mack man secretary sebelius and congressman cantor. [applause] madam secretary mr. Leader, on behalf of nyu, i actually teach here, American Public opinions. Too bad those of you who are students wont be here next semester when i teach. Thanks very much for coming. The course that i teach has a lot to do with politics and Public Opinion and moving and shaping of how Public Opinion flows there. Is nothing probably more controversial in politics over the past five or so years than the aca. Beginning with the, the path to passage. Then of course the past five years of implementation. So i wanted to sort of start with a notion that president obama came into office with, which was, this notion that democrats and republicans could Work Together on matters of great importance to the country. And i think, early on in the administration, there was contentiousness around there certainly was contentionness around the stimulus bill. The next big thing on the agenda was the aca, which took quite a while to negotiate and pass. So i wanted to ask both of you was that, was that dream or that vision of bipartisanship something that really wasnt possible in washington in the political environment today . Either one of you can start. I would like both of you to address it. Democrats were, sometimes frustrated that the president took so long trying to get republican support or someo3 republican support. And, it seemed, it seemed, that it might be possible for a period of time but then, it was passed on a very partisan partyline vote. So mr. Leader, if i could start with you was it possible or is it possible in washington today to get Something Like this put together and passed on a by r bipartisan basis . Well, steve, first of all, i would say yes but, unfortunately that did not happen in the case of the aca. As you rightfully suggest we were in a context back in 2009 where the president had just got elected. Obviously his historic election. Nations first black president. Came in after the country just experienced a horrific jolt in the Financial Markets and, as you suggest we passed the stimulus bill, which also was not a bipartisan affair. And, for a variety of reasons if you want to get into that. There was certainly, i think a commitment by all of us to want to try and address and to improve the situation of health care in america. And you know, i would like to start any discussion with about health care in this country. And i know the secretary, you know, spent a lot of her time and years in trying to make sure that the system that we have here despite what some of the International Numbers say oecd rankings and rest i would still contend that no matter where you live in the world, if you can afford it you will come to the United States for health care, if youre sick. And thats, the condition though is if you can afford it. So when the president first started his discussion with us on the hill back in 09, i remember that he had convened a session, i know secretary was probably there at white house. We were there and the premise was, we needed to do something about the cost of health care. And, the cost, because the government, being in the largest payor, of health care, couldnt afford it. The taxpayers couldnt afford it and businesses where most people outside of Government Programs get their health care through employer plans, they were also saying, that it was becoming too expensive. And it was that premise that i think brought us all together. I think what happened later as we got into the spring months that year and in june, you know, there was a divergence, if you will, and instead of that becoming priority lowering cost to increase access, it was almost in my opinion a sole focus how do we guaranty universal coverage no matter what the cost. I know that wouldnt necessarily the be view sharedpy the white house but from what the kind of input we wanted to have, it was just, unfortunately not integrated into what happened which resulted in the aca passing the way it did. So. A little context. Secretary . Well, probably wont come as a great shock i know it wont to the former leader that i was slightly different perspective on those early months, but i do want to start with a moment of personal privilege. We have two great Health Leaders here. Who is now the dean of the Public Policy school at nyu, but served with me as head of one of our great agencies, kind of think tank at hhs. And peggy hamburg who just stepped down as fda commissioner, who i had the great privilege of working with for five 1 2 years. I just wanted to give them a shoutout. But i would go back a little bit further than where leader cantor started with the president talked about universal health care on the campaign trail. It is one of the things h committed to from the moment he announced for office. He said the next president of the United States should be a president who is able to sign a universal Health Care Bill in the first term. So this wasnt a surprise. He campaigned about it all over the country. And i would say that the aca really had three goals and they were talked about a lot. One was insurance for the portion of the marketplace really was a slight of the marketplace who were either uninsured entirely, or, did not have affordable coverage in their work place. Most americans who worked for government or for big jobs or were poor, or were old had health care. But a slice of the market did not. So access for those folks and affordable access. Secondly as leader cantor said, it was definitely a cost control because, and in the United States and i will compare us to other developed countries spend 2 1 2 times per capita what anybody spends. Our Health Results are pretty lousy. We have great care for some of the people some of the time, as terms of great care for everybody all the time, were not getting a very good bang for our buck. I think that is number two, not only better care, but also lower costs. And i would say as a third was a real opportunity for the first time to focus on Delivery System reform. And what is it that we could deal for population health. How do we get people in the United States to change the pattern of living sicker and dying younger than most of our competitors. You know, the aca had five different committees writing bills, having hearings, three in the house two in the senate. Lots of hours of testimony. Lots of amendments. I think the hope was that it would be a decent bipartisan legislation. Amendment after amendment after amendment was adopted in hopes that this would bring people together and i think the president was frustrated. I know a lot of us who spent a lot of time on the hill testifying, working with individual members were frustrated that at the end of the day it became a very partisan issue and was passed with a partisan majority. And had a lot of neardeath experiences, not least of which was when scott brown was elected to fill Teddy Kennedys seat, the 60th vote in the senate was gone. At that point it really looked like nothing was going to pass. But i would add one other piece to that scenario, you know, the president said in 2009 you cant fix the economy without fixing health care. And, inspite of a lot of internal pressures in the white house, a lot of senior advisors said do something else, do anything else. Pass a bill that insures 20 of your favorite children. May get 63 older people you really like. Get out of this space because it is too as we heard earlier, 70 years of contentious debate, tried and failed, over and over again. Lots of people felt this was the wrong time and the wrong place. I think he was prescient. We now have unlike the economy he was looking at in 09 the stock market has doubled. We have strongest month in month out job growth weve seen in decades. We have Consumer Confidence back. The American Economy is thriving and, Health Inflation is the lowest it has been in 50 years. So, i would say putting the bet on even that very contentious process, was a good bet to make. So, heres a question. Was it partisan because of partisanship, or was it partisan because of principled point of view that people had that they disagreed on . So, for instance, when you look at what the republicans have recently proposed, the hatch bill in the senate, many of the elements of the hatch bill include things that are in the aca. Yet republicans seem to want to repeal the aca and vote pretty routinely to do that but they embrace many of the elements of the aca. Which of the elements of the aca, mr. Leader is there broad agreement on . Which of the elements of the aca do you feel and republican feel like need to be fixed or changed . To be sure you dont think im going easy on the secretary there must be some things in the president s bill if you were going back and doing it over you would do differently or improve or change now. If you could after the leader provides an answer, if you could address that, that would be great. You know i mentioned in the beginning some of the the substancetive or policy differences that began to diverge and come about it started with this notion of cost being the priority. And, i think that is derived from basic policy differences. You know, you never can divorce the policy all the way from the politics in this town. But i will say the basic policy difference started with the notion that the government compels you to do something and in order for that to be the case the government needs to define what compliance with that mandate is. Thats where the fundamental difference starts, with, republican position and the democratic position. And it is about the mandates. It is about the, the insistence that washington knew best. What kind of health care and what kind of minimum mandated benefits had to be present in peoples plans. You know, this goes back to the proverbial situation where you know i remember i had a constituent, probably in his 60s, he was single. He had written in saying he had gotten one of the letters that his insurance was being canceled because of the aca. He found out what it would cost to get the new coverage with obamacare in place. And he said, wait a minute. Why do i have to pay that . Why do i need fertility coverage . At age 61 when he is single. And, again that just points out the case that, when you move towards defining what compliance was, with the mandate it was a reproblem. I think fundamentally there is a real issue with where republicans are and in it rejecting what the aca premise was and where the democrats are. Now you say what is in there that the republicans would support . I have always said i dont think anybody should tolerate the rejection of Insurance Coverage to someone who has a preexisting condition. We just had a different way of going about dressing that issue. And there were highrisk pools reinsurance funds set up at state levels, if they were adequately funded could, play the part, if you will the reason why there was a mandate. The reason why i think some of the reason why i think there is mandate in the obamacare bill, you didnt want people running naked with no insurance, all of sudden coming in, swooping in getting insurance. So, it would mess up the act aerial tables. Dont though two things go together. If you cover anybody without respect to preexisting condition, dont you have to require younger healthier, people, running naked as you say to get into the system . I dont think you have to have the mandates. This is where king v. Burrwell will be very, the decision that the Supreme Court comes down with, if the Court Overturns the subsidies, in states where there isnt a statesponsored exchanges, you know, they were the two sides are going to have to work with one another if there will be some resolution here. And i think that it is fair to say, republicans are not going to accept a mandate. You know as you can tell now and secretary spoke about some of the attributes of Health Care Costs and you know listen, its early. Health care costs some would attribute the fact they havent gone up because we have not had the Economic Growth we would like to have in this country. We still have projections of growth at 2. 3 by cbo historically since world war ii it has been 3. 2 growth. So im not so sure right away aca brought about all these savings. But i would say if the two parties are going to come together, the one thing that the republicans are going to say theyre not going to be for a mandate. We dont even have the mandates in effect now. I mean honestly, you have a lighten forcement of some of the employer mandates or some of the individual mandates. You have employer mandate for the midsized companies, if you will for 50 to 100 employees. That is put off last year. Because of that the individual mandate is lightly enforced. These provisions are sort vegetables while the dessert was the coverage of kids who are 26 and under under your parents plan preexisting coverage, things both sides will support. There will be, again depending where the Supreme Court says, an opportunity for the sides to say okay, were not getting everything we want but weve got to start over. So what about some of the vegetables he refers to . Do you just need to eat our vegetables or is there something we can do here . I think, again vegetables came from the Heritage Foundation which is hardly a liberal group. The mandate issue was a longtime republican concept. It was in governor romneys bill in massachusetts. And it was there for a very specific reason. Hay hate to sound too much like a geek but i spent eight years as an insurance commissioner, regulating an insurance market. What i know from watching state after state after state is, if you pass a bill like new jersey did, Like Washington state did like a variety of states did which has community rating, no preexisting condition no differentiation in price based on Health Conditions you dont have a balanced risk pool, rates are unaffordable. In fact in Washington State which is one of the first to do it insurers left the market. Fine. For two years they literally had no Insurance Coverage for Small Business owners and for individuals. So it really does tie together. If you want to get rid of preexisting condition coverage, i would agree everyone says theyre for, unless you want a singlepayer plan, if you want private Insurance Industry to survive you have to tie that to a balanced risk pool. Everybody in. Some people will get sick. Some people wont. I find that the story about the gentleman who didnt want maternity coverage or fertility coverage, my guess his drug plan still has viagra, i guess he didnt get out of it entirely. But if you dont want gender ratings, which was legal up until the Affordable Care act which meant that women in this market, again were talking about a small market now, if we were work in big employer, if you work for government, we always had a situation where there is package of benefits, you take the package of benefits. You can pick and choose but nobody said, okay, im young and single, i dont want maternity coverage. You have it. That means that women are charged more than men. And, women in this market, up until the Affordable Care act was based could be charged 50 more than men. And, many plans didnt cover maternity coverage at all. So women were literally not only paying more, but then paying outofpocket for coverage that they needed. Insurance is again about benefits that some people will use and some people wont but if you again dont believe that gender rating is something that Insurance Companies should be allowed to do, and many people say, were against that, then you have to have a package of benefits that applies to everyone. This is hardly the perfect bill. I would be the first to admit it. As i say was drafted by five committees. It was, we, had a snapshot of what the perfect bill could look like. Not talking about romneycare, are you . I am not. That was a great template. Done at the state level but once the house and Senate Passed bills, there was a period of negotiations between the house and the senate bill. That the president actually was at the table with the sleeves rolled up, leaders were there and went through every aspect of the bill, there were different approaches. When the Massachusetts Senate seat was loss, you then had to retreat to reconciliation, which is a procedure that only allows some things to be considered and others not and think at the end of the day, there were a lot of things that have to be fixed. The individual mandate did go into effect this year for taxes. Fully in effect the way exactly it was written. The employer mandate will kick in but frankly for employers folks, who have 50 or less employees, are exempted from the law anyway. That is the way it was written. That is about 94 of the employers in this country. For those who have more than 50 employers, i mean employees, they are in but most of them offer Health Insurance anyway. So things around the administrative burden, how to balance what the packages are of benefits, right now every state has the state mandates that they have benefits 3 including in their benefit package. That probably doesnt make a lot of sense. We have the probably the biggest harm right now, there are lots of millions of people in america who are too poor to afford Health Insurance because they are in a state that didnt expand medicaid, and the way that the Supreme Court determined the medicaid decision we have now millions of people in the country who literally dont qualify for anything and are kind of in a catch 22