is that a fair statement? >> absolutely. we are not the consumer product at all. but being here at the consumer electronic show in las vegas you can see how relevant networks which we are doing, is becomes important to every consumer product that wants to be connect connected. >> for a while people owned ericsson phones. but do you manufacture phones? >> no we don't. >> it is more business-to-business? >> what we do is we are the global leader for infrastructure for networks and provide infrastructure and telecom services and services for operators. so that is the business we are in basically. >> what is ericsson demonstrating here? what are they putting on the floor? >> first of all the main message for us is to make sure everyone who is out there is showing the different project and consumer device and things they have build that want to be connected and benefit from being connected over very good networks. of course we are showing l g products andilate es latest and great depression est systems why are providing for carriers and making sure we are relevant in talking about where the network technologies go were the future. i think it is relevant one of the topics is 5g. it is something the whole industry is talking about. we just concluded a panel on 5g where there was great interest from many aspects of government which we are very excited about. >> >> host: why is government interested? >> it is important to regulate to facilitate innovation for other industries. 5g is different from the earlier mobile networks that were built for the operator community. we see many other industries are starting to want to use networks and mobility. and over the last years, the name of the street to try to build mobility in devices and applications and so forth. and that in itself is going to accelerate and become more important. >> is that where 5g is different from other generations? >> that is a bit of a complex answer. let me try to explain that. 5g is more than just another network. it is an evolution of 4g into a network that is more responseive, faster and built for machine-type communications. in ericsson we talk about what we call the network society. and the network society is a society where everything that can benefit from having a connection will actually have one. we put a vision forward in 2009 in barcelona in the stage show going on there of the 50 billion connected devices in 2020 which has caught on well in the world. that i think opened many people's mind that the mobile industry is not limited to the smart phone or the devices we kerry around personal. it is great technology to connect other things and build a better society based on those things. >> well, on ericsson's home page there was a blog post about a connected world is just the beginning. what does that mean? >> well if i should interpret it. i think the world of connections something we have been talking about for years. but the beginning means we are building a platform and foundation for other industries to innovate on top of. that is why the networks we are building now is becoming so much more than innovation platform for the whole society. i sometimes say if you look at regulations in different countries for instance you come from a situation where boys were regulated by parents and competition was regulated on boys and how that could pay out in different countries. now we are moving into regulator roles being more enabler of innovation because you want to make sure those networks are being build with that kind of technology that makes other industries able to loose them. and then they can grow their opportunity, transform their products and here at ces we can see cars. i walked the pre-show and where you can see cars everywhere and most likely they are all being connect and you can see a car becoming a software product. if a car becomes a software product it has to be connected because so many things you will do with the software in the car is relying on the connectsuonnectconnectivety and they need to be safe and do storage. so that is an example of what i mean of innovations outside top of the networks >> watt we have been calling the internet of things? >> the internet of things is one of the words. that is what it is about. we will see the internet change dramatically with these evolutions. it wasn't from the beginning built to do this. but we'll see an internet where compute computing, security and functions like that will move to the edge and where the generation of data is being done and where the data is being concluded. in other words we don't need to send all of it from a consumption point through the entire network up to a server that is in another country and wait for the results. we will see the network doing the computting storage and other things. >> we have been talking about the cloud for several years. has it been a successful transition? >> cloud technology is now many, many years on its terms and how long it has been in the market. for the it industry it has been a tremendous transformation removing the hardware and software from enterprises out into the central locations. and at the same time that has led to a big technology change. so technology is like stm and virtualization and the difference between hardware and software in the big data censors is the technology that made the systems very efficient. and that kind of technology we can incorporate into networks now. so we will use that technology and we are already starting to use cloud technology to transform big networks into being much much more efficient than in the past. if you look at stm technology it is one of those very very disrupted factors and that will transform the way you use the services, the way you test things, the way you roll out the new software. it is a big change for customers and operators. >> is 5g used anywhere in the world? >> no. no. >> how far ahead are we? >> we are about five years ahead if you look at the way the industries operate. if we go back to the 2g and so on it takes us a number of years to be able to collaborate in the indust industry industry, work in the program and innovate it. we have an innovation regime that is creating a corporation between many, many competitors. and we are being helped to cross license and not build on propriety that would make it less scalable and slower uptake on the technology. that is one of the regions why gsm has enormous uptake as well as 3g-4g where we have passing between 14-15 billion users in the world. >> are you thinking about 6g already? >> one should never say there will not be next generation. i think them ambition level for 5 5g is going to last us for a long time. we are not going to make this a revolution and build an entirely new network on top of the older network. we mean make it an evolution of the existing networks. you look at the lg technology and it will serve us in the lower frequencies for quite a while and we will be able to resolve that forward and forward into reaching something that will be approved at 5g. the ultimate approval is the international telecommunication union, that is a partner of the united nations, are the ones who say this is now 5g. so i think we will see an evolution into getting that stamp on the paper. >> your prediction at ericsson. what are some of the trends you are watching for and the changes that you see coming in 5-10 years in telecommunications? >> well i think the most important trend if you look at it is the mobility trend overall. i think we are amazed that ericsson is the leader in the mobile space of how many companies that never thought mobility would be relevant to their product is saying this is the core of their strategy. that is one important trend. and we are measuring and following that clearly. we are publishing reports called mobility reports every quarter with the level it reaches, the numbers, how many smart phones nathaniel philbrick in the last quarter and so forth. and we are following the consumer trend. being here in las vegas we can see many of the gadgets that are being launched are early prototypes and things that become normal. wearables were big a couple years ago at the initial stage and i think many people all over the united states and all over the world are using wearables on a daily bases connected through their mobile phone and providing data about themselves. >> is there an advantage ordis disadvantage of being in sweden? >> i spend a lot of time in the united states and all over the world. i think we are excited at ericsson to see also the important role that the united states market is paving for us. we have done very well over here. we have great traction with the operators over here. we have seen a bunch of leadership with many of the operators here using our technology to the full- full est. we are excited the united states is home of many of the leading internet companies. and we can see collaboration between the internet companies, over the top play operator and the community industry as well as the media industry which is very very u.s. focused all over the world and being exported. one of the big export products of the united states. and from a technology point of you that is important with five gigs. we are hoping the united states can take a leading position in the way of guiding the rest of the world into 5-g as well. >> aren't a lot of the protocols becoming more and more international and less u.s. centric? >> they absolutely are. but it is important to always have leading customers, to have leading visionaries if you will who are able to guide the industry and so forth. and i think hear many of the operators into the united states have an important role to play. and i think that the other countries will pick up on that. i am glad to see that not for the ideas about the future and evolution of network and providing better services and more security and faster services is important. >> one of the issues we have been hearing about recently is security, privacy, hacking, etc. is this getting an international response rather than a piece-by-piece response? >> i think both. first of all we really have seen the change from just all of the hacking being able to create damage into national security issues between nations and whatever it might be. i think the secure issue is of the upmost concern because we can limit the innovation we are hoping to see from so many industries here in las vegas. and it can damage innovation and damage the opportunity of so many things we wanted to happen. we cannot make it safe and secure it will not happen. on the privacy side it is the same issue. many people say we have something called ericsson consumer lab where we are seen in reports more than 60% are concerned about privacy issues and surveillance issues on the internet. at the same time the usage just increases. and i think it is a double edge sword. we have to be able to educate people and make sure people understand their behaviors but as well as operators and industry pairs taking a responsible role in making sure networks are safe and people use safe using the applications and be able to gradually and back to your comment it is going to be a gradual approach as it it is in any security measure. you increase the alarm level and the stress levels go up. >> as the government of sweden -- has the -- taken a different approach to security and privacy issues than the u.s. government? >> i wouldn't say that. i think there is a very strong global debate going on on security issuess and we have a world economic forum coming up where i think internet security and the ability to do business globally is going to be an important topic. i think this debate is very global today. i hope that it can continue to be so the response can be global. because all after all the security issues on the internet are not limited to nations. they are certainly global. >> give us a snapshot of ericsson. five head quarters? >> we have about 114,000 employees and spend $5 billion usd every year. we turnover around $30 billion u.s. dollars every year. and we are the global leaders in global networks and in services. and we are doing investment in the media and we have become the real believer in it systems that is connected to our strong situations. we are a company that continues to strive to provide customers with the very best solution for the future. >> what is the importance of a show like this? >> there is an increase in importance. we can see that what used to be an industry that was a bit more inward looking. where we were sitting down and standardizing the future of net monopoly works and thinking we would innovate something great and people would use it specifically the telephone services of the past and now it is growing to something where every industry in the world wants to use these networks to provide their services to be able to benefit and build their business, and as they do that they took the requirements of the future. so for us we are becoming to the most important show to see the products we want to provide network for in the future. >> so many companies work together? it isn't just ericsson doing their own thing like you said. >> we do. and one water mark of the industry, if you will, is the good innovation corporation there is. and then we compete as much as we can on building the equipment. we have to do that because a certain level of communication is needed to reach global success. the work coming from australia, china, korea or any network is very important. we will continue to defend that ipr routine that makes it possible. >> what could prevent telecommunication advancements? could it be government regulations or this or that? >> one thing is if we get this very big fragmentation. and the fragmentation would be that we are not able to standardize things and it is pro propriority of technology. if is fragments and challenged by a number of smaller scale things that doesn't build the big innovation platform. that will slow down the industry and make it less of a possibility for the innovation powers other companies are expecting. >> are people doing that? is it becoming more and hoar like this or are companies cooperating? >> i am very positive. if i look at the way we are working with 5g we can see there is a big push to work together. there is leadership like the united states market. but is also to make sure other nations adopt and put it in place. people won't be able to roam with devices like this. >> senior vice president and group chief executive officer of ericsson. this is the "the communicators." >> thank you. >> i want to introduce our next guest. what do you do? >> i am the senior advisor forclusion solutions. i own the strategy for the entire business and drive the portfolio in terms of where we invest, what providers, work globally with them and help them achieve goals and objectives. >> what is a service provide snr >> that is an interesting question. usually they have a physical infrastructure. so a wireless operator for example. but more and more we are starting to see cable operators are also service providers but even now they are starting to emerge a new breed of providers that don't necessarily have their own infrastructure. you could argue netflix and uber are offering a service. >> if someone has comcast or a cellphone, do they have a cisco product in the line? >> i am happy to see. any where you go. any operator whether it is cable or whatever they will have cisco in their network. we are known as the company that build up the internet over the last 30 driersyears. we connected the networks together calling it the internet. >> is that becoming archaic to have something connected via the internet? >> the internet started with dial up connections. we brought it from that thing somewhere to your home. we brought it from being your home to be with every device you kerry around. the next change from the internet is taking it from the mobile devices to things and connecting not just people but things with people and information with people and processes with people and things so we can create a whole what we call internet of everything. >> as the senior vp of cisco, talk about how you live the internet of everything. >> well that is an interesting question. if you take a look at we were just walking over and jim was laughing with me. i am carrying two devices. my laptop and other things are in the hotel. we have demonstrations for the customers we are showing how connected life could work. what changes from having their home connected to a mobile device and ultimately connecting mobile devices as well. we can connect a family a mom, and your kids' kids. imagine if mom is at work. she knows that johnny who is on his way from the school bus to home. she can unlock the door for johnny or johnny can unlock it for from his device. and mom can figure out she needs pizza, and if john brought a friend home she can see if he is lactose-intolerant or needing gluten-free pizza. so all of that is connected. >> do you feel burden wearing four devices and one on your wrist? >> i would love just one. technology is moving at a rapid face. look at the show. i am excited to walk around and find more devices that connect to the internet. in 2018 we are finding there is going to be over 4 billion internet users which is two and a half more than what we have in 2014. all of things getting connected are going to be beneficiary tool the entire industry and economy. >> your boss said mobility and it will be in all companies and walmart, allstate and other companies will be calling themselves technology. >> they will embrace technology to drive productivity or both for their company. every obamacare is becoming a digital -- company -- company. they see the internet of everything has a way to connect to employees and customers and drive loyalty and growth in the business. >> we are here in las vegas at the ces international show. what is cisco unveiling? >> we are talking to service providers about the internet of everything. we are talking to them about what opportunities lie for them. for example video services have evolved from being inside the home and your television to something you take everywhere. video scape is our answer to that. video being delivered from the cloud to any device whether it is mobile device or ipad or tablet. or a laptop even. not just your television screen. cloud-based solutions and cloud in general lowers the cost structure and mobility to the customers and other areas like business services. >> one of the things cis so has been working at is the inter-cloud. what is that? >> much like 30 years ago, cisco emerged as being the company to build the internet and taking multiple networks and connecting them together. we realized the world of cloud is emerging rapidally but it isn't going to be one cloud. it will be public private and other clouds co-existing. so it is going to be a hybrid cloud environment. we felt a way to interconnect the clouds like we did the networks. we are doing connections of the clouds with the constructive intercloud. we have signed up over 50 partners today who have global footprints with their data centers. it is more like -- it is almost like an airline -- i will use the star line uh analogy. it is like airlines coming together to offer a global service to clients. we do that coming together and offer services globally. >> on the "the communicators" we talked to a guest about the future of the internet and one of things she said is companies and corporations are overbuilding the internet and becoming over the top providers for more security. is that something cisco is involved in? >> absolutely. as you think about the internet of everything. >> is this technology or did it follow? >> that is an interesting thing. the government innovates and then also follows in technology. i think we do both. >> is the government a major contract for cisco? >> it is part of our business but not a significant part. >> in washington one thing being talked about is the issue of intellectual property. would you like to voice on that? >> we believe to be able to successful you have to invoit and when you do that you have to build that portfolio and we have been building it for 30 years to be able to protect our assets more than anythingential -- anything else. trends are affecting the entire industry industry. everyone from consumers to service providers. there are multiply transitions happening. does that create a boom? for some areas you may consider it to be a boom and others may consider it to be a very good constructive force to drive. depending on the lens you may determine whether it is as a boom or not. >> are we in a disruption? >> absolutely. and this is a perfect time for us because we thrive on the transitions. ever time there is a transition we catch the market to bend and accelerate. we are actually how i feel at the market transition and section point which i think is a favorite. this is where enterprises or businesses adopting operational technology and working service providers to connect that? that is the area we are a strength >> and kelly thank you for your time. >> the "the communicators" is on location in las vegas for the international ces consumer technology show. largest trade show in the world. if you are interested in seeing more of the programming you can go to cspan.org/communicateeicatecspan.org/communicate. >> the senate talked about fundish for the homeland department today. this is the fourth time this bill has been blocked by the democrats. we will hear from homeland security secretary jay johnson next on c-span. and hen a whitehouse force looks at policing policy. federal reserve chair will deliver the monetary policy to the house tomorrow and discuss the economy. she will testify before the senate banking committee at 10 eastern. and secretary john kerry will talk about the 2015 budget request for the state department and talk about challenges facing the united states in foreign relations. homeland security secretary jay johnson talks about what happens if they don't approve funding for his department. he is joined by the head of fema and border patrol. >> good afternoon, i am pleased to be joined by the deputy secretary, and the craig fugate and assistant secretary of immigration and custom enforcement, the director of the secret service and the director of uscis and the acting administrator of tsa and our cfo. i am also honored to stand here today with the men and women of the department of homeland security. many who are behind me. these are the men and women who reflect a much larger workforce that is responsible for keeping the homeland safe. the people you see behind me reflect a workforce responsible for counter terrorism, border security, aviation security, port security, maritime security, cyber security protection of critical infrastructure in the country, protection of the national leaders, and response to disasters. none of this is free. we need a partnership with congress to support our efforts. currently, the department of homeland security is being funded by a continuing resolution. that continuing resolution expires in just four and a half days. the clock is ticking. and as i stand here there is nothing from congress to fund us beyond that point. the american public needs to understand the consequences of permitting a shutdown of the department of homeland security. here are just a few: first we will be forced to require some 75-80 percent of our men and women to come to work without pay. there are serious consequences for the working men and women of our department standing behind me if they are required to come to work and try to make ends meet without a paycheck for themselves and their families. this includes the men and women of the united states coast guard. second, we must in the event of a shutdown furlough approximately 30,000 employees including our head quarters staff. what does that mean? what is the consequence of that? i will give you an example. every day our press and staff at my head quarters stays one step ahead of the groups such as isil and staying one step ahead of threats to our aviation security. and closely monitoring and staying ahead of illegal migration on the border and staying one step ahead of our weather conditions and closely monitor our weather conditions in a very harsh winter. if we shutdown that staff is cut back to a skeleton. third, approximately 80% of fema's workforce is furloughed. administrative fugate will talk more about that. fourth our about to grant money to state and federal grinds to a halt because there is no money or the ability to process the payment has been furloughed. fifth, service providers and su supplyiers of the department do not get paid during the period of the shutdown. again because there is no ability or our ability to process payments have been furloughed. i would go on and on. overall a shutdown of homeland would have serious consequences and amount to a serious dis disruption in our ability to protect the homeland. for those in congress who may be thinking of kicking the can a few weeks down the road i must remind you of the consequences to this department if we remain on a continuing resolution is severe. we are restricted to last year's funding levels if we are on a continuing resolution and must operate on a state of certainty about when the next invusion of funds will be. it is like trying to drive across the country with no more than five miles of gas in your tank and you don't know where the next station is. we cannot pay for enhanced on the southern border we put there. we cannot fund new non-disaster grants to state and local law enforcement. every governor mayor police chief and commissioner should be concerned about this. we cannot pay for the things we need for the united states secret service in the coming presidential election cycle. this is no way to run a government. on behalf of the men and women up here on this stage and for homeland and public safety we need a fully funded department of homeland security. we need the congress to pass a fiscal year 2015 appropriations full of amendments that attempt to defund our executeiveeive action to fix the immigration. the president says he will veto a bill coming to him with such language. as the president and i have said many times we welcome a debate in congress about immigration and immigration reform. we know that there are strong views on the subject. but don't tie that debate or an effort to defend our executive action to the ability of our department of homeland security to function in its entirety. don't tie the debate about immigration to the funding of homeland security for this nation. at this point, i would like you to hear from two of your component heads. i will begin with the commissioner of border patrol. >> thank you all very much for being here. as the secretary said there is a human face to this. we have 60,000 employees, border patrol agents and customs, we will be asking them to go to work without a paycheck. when you are young and i remember as a young police officer, i don't think the mortgage holder would have been too sympathetic if i was working and not getting paid or the hospital would have been too sympathetic to my plight either. that is significant. let me give you another concrete example of the human face to this problem. the human face is that we have been hiring custom and border protection officers and border patrol agents literally 500 are in the training academy right now. we will give them a plane ticket home and send them home from the academy in georgia and we will not be paying for them. when this happened before, some didn't return. we spent a lot of money in training, hiring and making sure they are screened. when they went back home people said you are an attractive working for the job vment it is my pleasure to introduce the advisor for fema. >> the continuing resolution is not the way to run the department as said. some of the imempathim impacts occurring now are we are not able to init initiate the grant programs. one in particular is a 50-50 match program that is used to fund your local government, local emergency managers and at the state capital state emergency members salories. without the grant there are impacts at the community and state level for personal. not training or items but people who are serving right now. if we end up in a shutdown i heard this said. but the impact will not be great because most of the people at dhs will be at work. i want to tell you what this means. in 2013 the last time we shutdown the government fema had to furlough 3,630 people. people will say that is not a big deal. but until you realize without the staff we cannot make payments on outstanding disasters. those funds for the disasters will be there. but the people required to make those payments who oversee that will not be there. we will not be able to respond to governor's request for disaster assistance unless it is involving life safety or property. and we will have to recall staff if an energy occurred which happened in 2013 when tropical storm fay formed in the gulf of mexico. we had to recall staff to staff up the operation centers and head quarters in the region. not only are they not getting paid. they are not there when the country needs them and have to be called back. there are consequences not only to the people who are not part of the 1% and not going to get paychecks. there is real impact from the colorado floods and you name it because our ability to pay will be postponed. there are emergency responders supposed to be travelling to training centers this weekend and they will not be able to go without a budget and we will not be able to mike up the training. some of the training is so rare we are the only facility outside of the military that does this and it will not be easy to reschedule. many of the people will not be able to take it this year and it will delay them a year. those are the consequencess of a shutdown and cr. >> secretary johnson, do you support the senate democrats fill bustering this bill? >> i support one free of amendments to defund our action. that is what i have been urging this congress to do and i am earning in the four or so working days they have to fig or orout a way to get a fully funded budget for homeland security. >> yes, ma'am? >> you have expressed concern about the threats of mall of america in minnesota. what are the concerns you have for security after hearing this? >> well i spoke about the situation with the al shabab video yesterday on the news shows and we have issued two state and local law enforcement a bullet about that earlier today and i think i will stand on that. i don't know i have much more on that to add. >> yes, sir? >> what is the current status of the airport? >> what is? >> what is the current status of the air force of the administration to implement to executive orders and continue to provide political asylum to children coming from central america? >> when it comes to applications for asylum and refugee status continues. there is a lawsuit in texas and the judge issued an injunction on the new defered action for parents. that injunction was issued late monday night last week. we are, with the department of justice, appealing that decision and filing a request for a stay of that in junction and i believe those actions will take place today if they have not already been filled in the court. >> okay. >> secretary, in light of the threat and other threats that have been made recently against the homeland you know the timing giving the funding is running out, what affect does that have on your ability to counter act those threats? >> look. any time -- we have tried to layout here with specificity just some of the few concrete examples of the consequences of letting our funding lapse or continuing us on a cr. and so overall the disruption to the department is definitely there and it is definitely real. as i said a moment ago, if our head quarter staff is cut back to a skeleton that inhibits our ability to stay on top of a lot of the existing situations and challenges to homeland security right now. so what i keep saying is that it is in these challenging times in particular most unfortunate there is even a possibility of a shutdown for the homeland security. it isn't good for the homeland security of the nation or public safety and it is not in the public's best interest. so again, i urge the congress before the end of this week to pass an appropriation bill for the entire year of 2015 for the department free and clear of the amendments to defund our executive action. the bill offered up on the house floor a few weeks ago was a good bill funding almost all of our homeland security key initiatives and enables us to go forward with border patrol aviation security maritime security of the coast gart guard. we need that bill. if congress wants to have a debate about immigration we can have that. we have been asking for that for years. but don't tie that to the funding of the men and women standing behind me. okay. thanks a lot, everybody. >> 47 senators voted in favor and 46 voted to block the bill. this was the fourth attempt into the last month proceeding to the measure. republicans faced opposition from democrats because of the bill's position that rolled back the president's executive action. senator mcconnell introduced another bill that would still require them to find funding at the end of the week. >> we take booktv and american history tv on the road travelling to united states cities and too learn about their life. we partner with comcast to learn about galveston, texas. >> the opening of the canal in 1869 ships were dealt a death blow. coal ships had a shorter route to the far east and india and those markets. so sailing ships really needed to find a way to make their own living. so instead of high value cargo they started carry coil cotton oil and other things. so the niche was in carrying any kind of cargo that didn't require getting to market at a fast pace. the connection to galveston is unique from melissa. she sailed and arrived about a hundred yards from where we are standing in 1883 with a cargo full of bananas and came in 1886 again and it was really important for galveston historic administration to find a vessel that had a connection. and the fact she was a sailing vessel was more important. >> watch this on sunday on booktv and on sunday on c-span3. >> now a conversation on policing practices and policy. the task force was created by the whitehouse to examine to relationship between local law enforcement and the communitys they serve. police chief charles ramsey from philadelphia co-chairs the task force. >> good morning, everyone. now we have turned the jazz off we are ready to get started. let me start by saying good morning and welcome to the president's task force on 21st century policing listening section. today the topics focus on officer safety and wellness. let me briefly give you a background. on december 1st the president announced his intention to create a task force on policing to look at two topics one was building trust between the police and local communities, particularly in communities of color, and come up with concrete recommendations that will not only build trust but keep the current crime reduction down that we have been achieving over the last 20-30 years. two co-chairs were announce today lead the task force and that is professor loyd robinson and she is the former assist want attorney general for the office of justice program both in this administration with president obama and the administration with president clinton. and the philadelphia police commissioner charles ramsey. he has been a police commissioner for over six years and with the district of columbia police chief as close to nine years and has time in chicago. they will both introduce themselves. we will go through today with a series of panel of experts and they will speak to the task force and we will go over that. let me tell the witnesses thank you for being here. we will also have several witnesses coming through and i don't want to get in trouble, but coming through skype because of the weather conditions despite their effort to get here with flight cancelations. but to show the level of commitment, they tried to get here and maneuver on any plane they could, they have agreed to still participate and we will take our hands using 21st century technology totalk about 21st century policing and if it doesn't work blame the other side -- no just kidding. we want to thank them for their effort in trying to get here and mother nature has spoken and he had to respond. i want to turn it into the co-chairs to lead us and introduce the task force members. >> ron, thank you very much. and before proceeding further, i do want to thank ron davis and the terrific staff of the cop's office for all of their support through the task force's work. they have been terrific. and really want to recognize all of their assistance. i am lori robinson a professor at george mason university and formally with the department of justice. it has been a distinct honor to co-chair the task force. the president gave us a clear mission. he gave us 90 days in which to get the job done. he asked us for very practical recommendations and gave us direction to come back with very distinct and clear path that can be recommendations that can im implemented. ron davis laid out that we have had six listening sessions and today and tomorrow are the last hearings. the subject of officer safety and wellness is one of interest. not only to those gathered here today and watching us but to so many who work in this field and communities around this country. i look forward to the hearing of from the witnesses today. we have a wonderful panel here and those succeeding us. i also want to recognize the fact that one of my students from george mason is here with us. i know others are going to be joining us. i am very pleased at the number of people who have come to our listening session and who have been watching us through the streaming of these sessions. i have had many comments from people who have watched our hearings. i think that reflects the interest from communities around the country in the subject matter of these hearings. with that let me turn to my distinguished colleague. ... been in law enforcement for quite some time. before i introduce or allow the other panelists or task force members to introduce themselves we do have two that are not physically with us here today. connie rice will be joining us via conference call. throughout the session today, and brian stevenson is on travel. he is going to join us later this evening. he is coming in all the way from australia, and obviously you can imagine if you had trouble flying across the united states, try to get become from australia, really proved to be a bit challenging, so he wasn't able to make it in time for this session. but he is going to be here later on today. so with that let me begin the -- having our task force members introduce themselves. we're going to start with dr. sedrick alexer to my far right. >> good morning. can you here me? i'm cedric alexander, current public safety director in dekalb county george, and president of noble, national organization of black law enforcement executives. my career started in 1977 in tallahassee and then the orange county sheriff's office, and subsequently to miami-dade police department, where i originally finished my career and decided to go back to school and get a doctorate in clinical psychology, where i practiced psychology for a number of years before returning back into police as an administrator. i like to say welcome and thank you all for being here as well too, and looking forward to what testimony you have to share in regards to the health and well become of officers across the country. thank you. >> good morning. my name is jose lopez. i'm the lead organizer of make the road new york community based organization in new york city, in new york state. most of my work focuses on issues of police condition ability, housing rights and worker rights. our youth power project is currently partnering as well with the public science center, doing research on the impacts of the stop, question and friction program in new york city on young people between the ages of 14 and 24. so i've been engaged in that work as well. i echo sentimentses to the panel. thank you for coming out folks in the audience. >> good morning. my name is brittany packnett, i'm executive director or teen for america in st. louis, my home town. but the other hat i have been wearing has been as a ferguson activist, and working to make sure that the 20,000 young people that teach for america st. louis serve that young people -- dissen franchised young people across the country are heard during those process and ensuring we are making sure that is a process that is fog cussed on justice and wellness for them as well. so excited to hear that the testimony today and thank you all for coming. >> good morning. my name is tracy meares. i haven't had enough coffee. i have for the last 20 years been a legal academic flint, at the university of chicago law school and now at yale law school. my research focuses on criminal law and criminal procedure, but i emphasize study of police and policing especially in urban communities, and like my co-task for members i'm really interested in hearing more about officer safety and wellness. the written testimony has been fascinating. also hopeful to hear about officer safety and wellness affects the health and safety of the officers are families. >> good morning. i'm sue rahr, retired after 33 years with the keeping sheriff's office in the metropolitan seattle area. i heave been running the police academy that trains the officers in the state of washington. i'm looking forward to the testimony. we spend a 0 long time talking about what police officers should do and now it's time to focus on the other side of the equation. i've had the privilege of dealing with police officers that come in on the beginning of their career wanting to do good and save the world, and so i'm anxious for us to discover what we can do to keep that attitude alive in them. thank you. >> good morning. my name is sean smoot, the director and police council for the police benevolent association of emand the treasurer of the national organization of police organizations. i join my colleagues in welcoming all of you to the task force meeting today. i am very grateful for the opportunity to serve on the task force with this esteemed group of experts and very grateful to the president for convening this task force. i think it's something that needed to happen, and frankly is overdue. i think it's very fitting that today we're going to have our last full day of public listening session on officer wellness and safety. because we have heard so much over the past several week in terms terms of testimony with regard to the challenges facing law enforcement officers and communities around this country. think it's very fitting that we have a day dedicated to officers' wellness and safety and the impact of officers' wellness on their families also, because those things really make the challenges even greater, and i am not sure there's a good public appreciation for that. so i very much look forward to the testimony of the witnesses today. we have several excellent panels and i just want to thank the co-chairs for their leadership and director davis and his staff for their assistance in this process. >> good morning i'm the chief of police for tucson airs. i am roberto villa send you're. abeen a police officers for 35 years, chief for six years, along the border we have a lot of unique issues dealing with immigration and dealing with the border and homeland security issues and so and it's been just a wonderful experience for me to sit and listen to the brightest minds in the country when it comes to police work, talking about different ideas within a growing and learning experience for me. so i'm very grateful for the opportunity to serve on the panel, and i'm also in awe of the panelists we have had come before us and talk abuse i've taken away a lot of fantastic information i hope to use at my own agency. so thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you very much. just for a couple of reminders. as you can tell this task force listening session is being tell televised live. for those watching online you can send your comments throughout the day. we will have a puck comment period at the end of the day. one thing i didn't say if i may, at the beginning is that my background is 238 years of law enforcement, including eight years as the police chief in east pool california. i'm realmy glad the task force decided to take -- to talk about this issue. i'm sure my colleagues on the stage and law enforcement, especially the chiefs recognize that unfortunately i've had to make that phone call. i've seen those on the task force have had to make that phone call when an officer is killed in the line of duty. so anything we can do to make our officers safe and healthy improves their service and the service to the community and this is a strong link so this is a good day focus on the well-being of the outstanding men and women who serve so we don't have to make the phone calls, and injuries come in many ways not just gunshots. at the point madam co-chair we're ready to proceed with the panel. >> commissioner ramsey will be starting off. >> thank you very much. panel one will focus on officer wellness. we have three panelists here with us, and one that is joining us through skype. something we did not mention but i think it's very important, the biographies of all of our panelists can be found on the web site. so our introductions throughout the day will be very brief. we appreciate all of them being here. we'll begin the discussion with dr. lawrence miller a clinical psychologist. doctor. >> esteemed task force members fellow panelists and guests. good morning. on a cold morning in washington dc. as i look around the room i see we have at least a few brass with us today, so i'd like to begin with the question that applies to law enforcement leaders. and that is as a law enforcement supervisor, would you send one of your officers on patrol with an insufficiently maintained vehicle? would you send one of your officers into a crime scene with an unserviced duty weapon? what about radios that didn't work? or just an illfitting utility belt or uncomfortable pair of shoes? and of course the answer is, for liability reasons and safety reasons, of course not. yet we know the tools of law enforcement get banged, bruised and worn out and they need continued assessment and repair. yet ironically, far less attention is often paid to the care and maintenance of what is arguably a police officer's most important resource and that is his or her brain. so to provide effective and science-based interventions for law enforcement stress syndrome it's important to understand that stress is not one unitary thing. there are different dines of stresses that apply to policing and that's whatnot i want to beginning the discussion here today. i'm honored to have the opportunity to begin the discussion so we can understand what it is the average man and woman in policing faces on a daily or occasional basis. the daily stresses involve numerous interactions that police officers have with citizens in their patrol communities. we have to realize that 90% of what an officer does every day involves talking to people and this ranges from casual conversations to dangerous confrontations. so therefore training in behavioral resilience, communication skills verbal deescalation strategies can often help officers diffuse potentially hostile situations and present the tipping opinion from turning it into a deadly force encounter. i believe dr. ramey will be elaborating more on officer resilience training. then there's the chronic or cumulative of stresses that build up over time, and these can including not just work stresses but family stresses as well. we know that the support of family system can buffer the impact of work stress, while satisfaction with one's law enforcement career can sometimes offset the cor rosesive effect of a disturbing home life but when both systems fray, some of the sun suppressed emotions can be punch through in the form of alcohol abuse, domestic violence overly aggressive policing and most tragically officer sued sued that will be expounded upon subsequently. critical incident stress refers to the acues life and death split second end cowboy at the such as officer-involved shootingings in custody death injury or death of a fellow officer, and particularly disturbing homocide child abuse, and disaster scenarios. in these cases it's are important that officers receive a post incident alcohollal check up and senior and are provided access to services to help them deal with the stresses of these traumatic events. post traumatic stress disorder is actually a very specific clinical syndrome that consists of intrusive experiencing numbness and avoidance, heightened arousal and disturbs in con missional and emotional functioning. fortunately, ptsd as a long-term disabling syndrome is actually quite rare. we can make it even more uncommon if we allow our law enforcement colleagues access to proper specialized and focused mental health intervention strategies that i believe -- they're not going to tell you things like difficult citizen encounters or gun battles and car chases. they'll talk about the stresses that come from within the organizational stresses. what bugs these men and women are the messages they perceive sometimes as confusing or perhaps unsupportive from the very top brass that they expect to be on their side. and so law enforcement leaders need to learn proper constructive organizational management, discipline and communication skills, because the example of fair and honorable policing does begin at the top. so to summarize, recognizing the potential effect of mental health in organizational intervention in law enforcement stress doesn't mean that we should oversell this. not every police officer needs counseling. not every -- even the best stress management program is not going to guarantee that the mistakes are not going to be mad and bad policing won't occur by immute tour or corruptible cops but the vast majority of officers if they believe they're being treated fairly by their superiors, if they're given access to appropriate intervention services services and very importantly, they see the access and that support as an indication of the brass' respect for what they do, then these officers are going to be more likely to reciprocate and well be unlikely to take their frustrations out of the street and more likely to turn into chuckleheads rooting for everybody else and these officers are going to be the ones who exemplify what we hope is the culture of honor we want to characterize our own police agencies. so, thank you for the opportunity to introduce this topic by opening this today. >> thank you for your testimony, doctor. next we hear from -- jurors villalonte. >> thank you for inviting me. it's been an honor to present here and this very important mission, looking at the other side of the equation has was mentioned before. i'm going to talk about something that no one else wants to talk about and that's suicide. unfortunately this particular occupation of policing, it's been suggests by research there's a high number of police officers who kill themselves instead of being killed by others. in fact in some estimates, suicide is twice that of officers who are killed feloniously in the field. this is a very staggering sort of statistic. we have done two major studies on police suicide. the first one in 2001 township. we found there were 131 police suicides in the united states. in 2012 we counted 112 police suicides in the united states. both male and female officers occurred at the -- suicide occurred at a similar rate in both years. suicide appeared to includesser in the 40 to 44 year group, which is kind of almost at the end of a police career, close to the end of a police contrary. that kind of coincides with suicide rates in the united states with mid-aged individuals. large crease of suicide was seen in officers with 15 to 19 years of service. firearms remain the most prevalent type of suicide. 91%. personal problems appear to be the most -- the largest reason that officers committed suicide followed by legal problems. approximately 11% of our suicide in policing were military veterans indicating possible influence of post traumatic stress dissport military -- disorder and military come pat. and we found that for three years -- three recent years, '99, '04 and '07 that there were 264 police suicides. that number of suicides represents a 69% increased risk for suicide among police officers compared to 1. 46 million workers in america. detectives and criminal investigators had a 82% increase risk of suicide above the general working population, and corrections officers had a 41% increase of suicide above the general population. staggering figures from the centers of disease control. prevention strategies, the iacp international association of police chiefs has published a document and there are several points they made that were very important. number one, that the leaders need to be recruited. leaders in police work need to be recruited. that care about their people. one particular chief called it's duty of care. we need a duty of care of those people that work the street every day. institutionalized effective early warning and wellness for the officers. tracking is one way to do that. if you know troubled officers it's a good idea to pay attention to them and take care of them. audit existing psychological services. we need more police psychologists out there that understand the job that understand policing. there are some that don't, and i think those who do need to be searched out. in training, especially at the recruit level, officers in the academy who start out on this kind of worker unaware of what is going to happen to them in the next 20 to 25 years, and sometimes it's not pleasant. changing the police culture. there's a culture police work that police don't have problems we solve problems. police do have problems, and i think that culture needs to be changed so police will -- provisioner will will will do -- police officers will be willing to go to help when they need to to top the trauma and stress of before it gets to late and they make the ultimate move of suicide. education is a good way to do that. there are several programs, gatekeeper approaches that work well are and simple programs. more research. looking at psychological autopsies to retrospectively look bacharach police suicides and find out how the officers got to that point where he or she decided that they want to kill themselves. we're doing some experimental work as well trying to detect suicidal thoughts in officers prior to a point where it's too late. i think the united states air force has a great program for this and the key to their prevention efforts involving the community. they involve the chaplain leadership they involve psychologists, they involve families to make -- to give them a better understanding of what suicide is all about. i think that's very important. i think we can do that in policing too. we inside to look at studies and i think in my view, police work is a fertile field for suicide. maybe police work itself doesn't lead to suicide but it certainly part of that equation that does. if you take personal problems relationship problems and other problems, and you put them in the context of being an officer, that's win you get into trouble. so departments have a duty and a moral obligation to care for their people and prevent these tragic deaths these very unnecessary deaths. thank you. >> next we'll hear from david orr, norwalk police department. >> thank you, sir. good morning and thank you for allowing me to speak to you today about the topic of post traumatic stress disorder as it relates to police officers. perspective of a union leader and front line supervisor from a working class community 45 minute outside of new york city. as a union leader with the american federation of state, county, and municipal employees, afscme i represent and advocate for my membership in collective bargaining labor rights and discipline. however i often find myself performing the duties of a peer council to my colleagues during stressful times in their lives. this includes those stressful times following a critical incident at work where a death has occurred. occasionally these incidents can be so severe that they burn a lasting impression into the minds of the most seasoned veteran cops. i'm talking about real tragedies, the details of which you wouldn't talk about at the dinner table. as cops, we all know that people love to hear stories about what we do. this is evidenced by the countless number of tv shows and movies that 0 glorify cop life and culture. people love the car chases big arrests or their lives you saved but nobody wants to hear the story told by the noun officers who responded to san -- sandy hook elementary founding a loadroom of children murdered. no can wants to know about the scene inside of a home in connecticut in 2007 where jennifer hawk pettite and her daughters, michaela, 11, and hailey 17, were raped, doused with gasoline, tied down and murdered. this is the part of our job that no one wants to hear about, and that's understandable. unfortunately, the reality is that horrible tragedies will continue to happen and police officers will continue to respond to them. we as officers will continue to insert our bodies and minds directly into these tragedies in an effort to try to help in some way. most of us will emerge from and it find a way to cope with what we have experienced but some will not. some will be scared to even deemly the course of their lives will change indefinitely. for the officers we most ensure that the necessary services and coverage are provided for the wound inflicted on their minds. currently only 32 states provide adequate ptsd mental health coverage under workers compensation. the state of connecticut is one of 18 rye maintaining states that that does not recognize ptsd as a.com pencable injury. the only difference is polices and firefighter who while in the line of duty witness the death of one of their own. after the incident at sandy hook, many officers who responded to the cool and investigated the aftermath of that devastating strategy suffered from intense ptsd. had they suffered a physical injury they would be covered our worker comp, but since their injuries were mental and those who died were not police officers there was no coverage. their claims under workers comp were rejected. they were forced to go back to work or lose their jobs. many did not get the mental health care they needed nor stuff time off to recover. a police officer who at work and suffering from ptsd raises serious public safety concerns. officers suffering from ptsd can present a danger to. thes or others or may be rendered ineffect enough proffering the essential duties. without workers compensation coverage for ptsd and the protections off erred under the workers compensation act officers might be unwilling to admit they have ptsd. this can have serious consequences for the officer both professionally and permanently and can present a significant liability to their employer. in the weeks following sandy hook i, along with hundreds of other police officers from around the state of connecticut, von volunteered to work and cover shifts for the new town police adapt. it was clear our brothers and sisters were physically and emotionally exhausted. so i am now respectfully asking that you do the same for those officers who are suffering from ptsd, and that you help them by delivering to the president in your report to him on march 2nd the message i have tried to convey to you today, that ptsd is a real problem in policing, that it cannot be ignored and should be comforts under workers compensation in every state in this country. thank you for your time. and for allowing me to speak to you on this topic. >> thank you, sir, for your testimony. next joining us through screen is dr. sandra ramey, professor at the university of iowa. doctor? we don't have audio. can we make an -- doctor you may have us on mute. well we'll try to resolve whatever technical difficulty we have. we still can't hear you. >> happening on her end? [inaudible conversations] still no sound, doctor [inaudible conversations] >> until we resolve the technical difficulty we're going to begin with our questions. doctor, stand by, they're a group working to try to restore the audio so we can hear your testimony, which is very important to us all. so with that just as a reminder, the task force members will begin their round of questioning. they will be called in the order in which they've indicated to me they have a question. so we will begin our questioning with sean smoot. >> thank you mr. chairman. i want to thank the panel for their very compelling testimony, all three of you did a very nice job framing the issues. i want to go back and talk -- ask a question of dr. miller. we have heard a lot of testimony with regard to procedural justice, both external procedurallity and internal procedural justice within the departments, and i noticed in your testimony that you indicated the greatest source of stress was organizational for police officers. i'm wondering if you can perhaps give us some insight how procedural justice being instituted within departments might be helpful in that regard. >> well, i want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to discuss something that i didn't have room to fit into my five-minute presentation so you gave me the perfect opening. this is a concept from organizational psychology, the difference between what is called v-transcribetive justice and procedural justice. let's see you and i have a dispute and we go to an arbitrator to decide the dispute. two things we want to happen. each of us wants to have our side represented and we want to get what we want. i want to get everything want you want to get everything you want. but typically what happens is a compromise will be made, and one of us is going to be less satisfied than the other with the compromise. that's how the spoils of the conflict are distributed among the parties. but even if i'm on the so-called losing side, even if i don't get everything i want, if i believe that the process by which that decision was made was a fair and unbiased one, i'm more likely to abide by that decision, i may respect the process of the decision, even if i don't like the result. what that means is next time i have dispute i will be willing to go to the arbitrator because i know that person or persons behave in an honorable, fair way. this is very important in policing because one of the big complaints about police officers have about their supervisors and managers is that they're told to do things accused of doing things, instructed to do things and they don't get a say in it, and sometimes they don't perceive the process as being fair. we see this in the real world where you have police citizen encounters that turn violent. the citizens don't believe they're being treated fairly by the city by the police depth of departments so even if the outcome is favorable or unfavorable, the process is suspected. by the same token many police officers feel they're taking a beating for things that have nothing to do with them ump you often hear the phrase we're just doing our jobs. why are you pin issuing us for doing your jobs? the answer is you're not supposed to punish police officers for doing their jobs. ow sporeesed to discipline them if they do their jobs inappropriately, and here's the most important thing, and then train them how to do it the right way. we allocate fund ford all sorts of thing inside policing and government. training, which if you think about it is probably the least expensive option in terms of equipment, apparatus experts out there exist as sergeant orr and the doctor say, trained professionals professionals who are already doing training on a piecemeal basis. if we can bringing this together universalized this, put together perhaps a standard curriculum of behavioral sciences training for police officers, this will serve to professionalize police and law enforcement in a way that is only being done in isolated pockets and that may be a very important message to bring back to the president. let's take what we already know, what's already being done already proven to be successful, and apply this. we don't have to re-invent the wheel. we have to do things on a broader scale and a way we can assess and evaluate as we continue. >> thank you. next we have sue rahr followed by tracy meares. dr. miller i'm going to give you more time to expound but i want to delve a little differently. one of the things i've personally been involved in the last couple of years is looking at our approach in the basic law enforcement academy. moving from a boot camp type model to more of an officer candidate model. we didn't want to sew the seeds early on the officer's career you're subject to this authority from above that is unkind, unlistening and that sort of thing, and i'm wondering if you can comment a little bit about is that a legitimate issue, having that power differential so out of whack in the beginning, and as officers go through their career is this a inknock calculation at the beginning helpful or not? >> i don't think it has to be all or nothing. policing is for best are or worse a paramilitary organization. you teed chain of command. decisions have to be made and someone toes to take responsibility. the problem is the general public and even many individual inside policing, die cot highs police officers into an degree griffin of mayberry or den sell washington in training day on the other and there's nothing in between. there's nothing wrong with the boot camp style of training. doesn't -- we need officers to have respect for authority but again we need that authority to be competent, we need that authority to be reliable and when you're screening for officer candidates el learn kirshner talks about the difference between screening out and screening in. one characteristic that makes to are good patrol officer is an individual who can work as a team take orders when necessary, collaborate with peers and can act independently when the situation calls for it. we don't need to jettison the boot camp attitude of strength weapon need to emphasize the police officers that our job is to make you stronger, not weaker. at the statement token we flood to broaden their college experience of dealing with different types of people, different situations abuse that will make them more professional more of an officer candidate school. i'm all for increased education and incareered training of police officers. every police officer should be a professional. a credentialed professional. not go going to guarantee a few bad cops won't abuse the system but it it will guarantee officers don't overreact because they don't know what toll do if you analyze situationed, whether in ferguson or anywhere else you go back and look at it, there's been taping point, aft some point somebody did something or said something that lit that fuse and the situation exploded. and although better training and behavioral intervention on the part of law enforcement is not going to eliminate all such incidents, and law enforcement officers have to know that when they need to make an arrest when they need to engage in deadly force, then they're prepared to do so. but unlike a soldier, whose job is basically it's been said to kill people and break things, police officer's job is to maintain the peace and to avoid using force as much as possible. so if we can keep the strong, determined resilient attitude of police officers about at the same time put them a more nuanced approach to dealing with human beings, because police, after all, del my classes you guys their the street psychologists, dealing with people in the street every single day. so you need to be as prepared as possible just like paramedic needs to be prepared to deal with medical emergencies, police officers need to be prepared to deal with behavioral emergencies and you'll find the officers who are trained, who feel competent are less likely to overreact and use force because they have more tools in their toolbox. we don't need to jettison or uncould the boot camp enemy yet but just need to expand with a wider range of behavioral options. >> if you want to jump in on these questions feel free to do so even though the question was not directed to you officially. with that we move to tracy meares, i. >> i was struck by your testimony oral and written itch j-e-ted down notes to myself about the composition of fatilities, at least in the data we're given. seemed like roughly half, maybe over halve, was suicide, and then other officers who were killed in the line of duty maybe some combination of felonious shootings and then vehicle crashes seem to be sort of three categories of fatilities. i want to focus though, on the -- how die want to put its -- i want to focus on the suicide issue. and this question is probably directed more to dr. vilinte. you can't help taking airplane from the testimony hurt people hurt people including themselves. and i was struck by your testimony, sergeant orr, about the fact that there's 18 states that don't have coverage for ptsd and your testimony, dr. vilante, we should encourage officers to reach out. i wonder whether we want to take a stronger stance. my father was a judge. he is retired now. and he began his career the judge justice court, and when you're a judge the judge juve nil justice court in chicago you're mandated every six months to have a meeting with a counselor. it's not an option. you have to do it. i was wondering if you how had ideas you could share with us that were more mandatory in terms of taking care of officer health in this context. it's one thing to say there should be workmen's -- workers compensation or just encouraging people to reach out but if you could choose one or two things that you thought would address this issue very concretely i wonder what you would say. >> well, first of all, very good question. i think it's important -- one of the suggestions that has come out is that police officers should have a yearly mental health check. in other words just like going to the dentist or the doctor to check the health you want to check your mental health as well. so, every year an officer should goo in to see a departmental counselor or peer support officer and talk about problems they have had over the past year. doesn't have to be a year. can be anytime they'd like to but maintainedder toly every year talk to somebody about this. and the idea is if you have small problems, they can be taken care of if they don't become big problem. that is one suggestion that came out recently. i think the second thing i'd like to say is that the police culture is tough. it's difficult to change. i think one researcher said it's like bending granite. the same kind of thing. our recruits, young people that come into this work, need to understand that it's not a weak thing. you're not a weak person if you go for help. whether it be physical or emotional help. i think a lot of officers believe that, that i will be seen as weak, won't gate promotion, my comrades are not going to have confidence in me. my leaders are not going to have confidence in me anymore. but it's a sign of strength to go for help. you don't know how difficult it is to pick up the phone and ask for psychological help. extremely difficult. it's twice as difficult for a police officer. because they're not supposed to be someone who needs help. and that's the apost we need to change. >> if can address that quick. currently from what i've seen the only mandates we experience are during our career are one, in training and the inception of tower career through the police academy, where there is a small block of training towards officers' mental health and personal awareness and then in the resetter fix indication process, in connection it's every three years, a 60 hour recertification process that updated periodically on new topics and a four-hour block every every three years on officer's personal awareness and mental health. otherwise, the only mandates we undergo are educational things, legal updates and firearms qualification and driver retraining. to they're more requirements of to us stay up to date on what our requirements are for the job. there is no periodic mandate that requires us to go through any mental health screening and the only time we're man dated to go through any mentality health screening is when it comes from the administration, and as a union guy i've seen that numerous times where guys are ordered into therapy for substance abuse or domestic violence or any other issue they're having in their personally anger management something like that. so the only time it's mandated is reactively after an incident and by that time it's already happened and if out other suicide they're not a mandate. it's too late. so periodic mandate of some type of counseling is a great idea. i know from my time as a new york city police officer, that there are some police departments that have mandates following critical incident, where an officer-involved shoot organize any other incident -- done hasn't to be use of force incident or any other tragic incident where officers are there while it's happening or immediately thereafter there is a policy -- there are policies that exist that mandate a cooling off period where people are taken off the line and i know some police departments in deadly use of force incidents have a minimum of three sessions with a counselor to try to process through what happened there. so, that's also a great idea. in fact it would be on a more broad based level. it's only happening in little pockets. >> yes doctor. >> if could i make a comment. i think this is a matter of great intentions and we need more attention to the application thing every panelist here agree most people in the room agree that police officers need more access to mental health services but in order for the rank-and-file as well as the top administrators to have buy-in into this project we have to work out a few details. for example if you -- if most officers believe that by asking for help and getting help will put them at risk of being taken of service i guarantee you most police officers are not going to ask for it or go for it. by the same token, let's say they do and go for it. administrators say i have an officer doing the right thing, they in treatment, trying address the problem and they're still working, the same way an officer with physical injury that enables them to keep working still works much to late say there's a use of force incident. something goes bad. i guarantee you'll have a 100 people saying look this agency let a psychologically charged officer on patrol. we agree -- i don't pretend to have the answer for this question but this needs to be carefully addressed. how to apply good intentions so they will be accepted by law enforcement, by the legal system and by the general public. if we can work this out, then we will have an effective way of implementing this, and i think that's where we need to get more buy insure from the -- buy-in from the people in law enforcement, because they know what they're people need and they know that their real needs and liabilities are. >> thank you very much. i'm told we have resolved our technical difficulties so we're going to suspend the questions and turn to dr. sandra ramey professor at the university of iowa. when she completes her testimony we'll pick back up with our questions. dr. ramey. >> can you hear me? >> you need to turn it up a little bit. the volume. >> can you hear me? >> she is. >> can you hear me? >> yes. >> okay. over the past two decades my -- [inaudible] -- >> it's breaking up. nod conversation [inaudible conversations] >> is there something i can do? [inaudible conversations] >> does that help? >> yes. it's better. >> okay. well, it's not the most professional look but let's try this. over the past two decades my research is primarily focused on issues related to more biddity for cardiovascular disease of with work conducted with approximately 17 departments this work includes finding 70% more prevalent -- their counterparts -- [inaudible] can you hear me okay? can you hear me? >> interference on the line unfortunately. not being a tech person -- [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> can you hear me now? [inaudible conversations] >> let's try it. on your phone. >> on my find e phone. >> ey. >> how is that? >> that's pretty good. >> okay. there's a lot of feed back on my end. okay. so analysis of these and other studies resulted in -- has resulted in the culmination and decision to develop an intervention to build stress resilience in police. recently we conducted two pilot studies funds by the department of justice and -- the work force? at the university of iowa the purpose of the studies was to test protocol for intervention to built resilience. while an intervention to build resilience is not a magic bullet its does address many of the risk factors and health issues documented in law enforcement over the past three decades. recent events have compounded the need torii sillens training. currently there's a need in police agencies all over the country to improve community relationships. from the police view, police need -- from the public view, police need to make the best decisions possible and perform another their very best in every situation they encounter and most officers strive for this goal as well. the character of policing-changing stressors is not a viable option. it is possible to teach officers to modify how they react to stress, this is resiliency or self-regulation. the problem is presently there's no consistent training within the profession to equip officers or families with skills to modify responses to stress. recent research suggests positive outcomes from stress resilience training in the military specifically the army and navy, funded by the department of defense. this training has recently been expanded to the army wellness centers and making it accessible to 200,000 soldiers and families, which i extremely important. given similarities and exposure to stress it is reason that these programs may also benefit police personnelment improfit in performance, including the ability to self-regulate and improve decisionmaking are expected outcomes of resilience programs. report the feasibilities and effectiveness of this intervention, tested in the milwaukee police department. our pilot and military projects used a program called the resilience advantage, develop at the institute of heart mass small nonprofit corporation in boulder creek, california. the program involves to to three hour classes, followed by four booster classes delivered weekly and use of an application or practice device to improve resilience distress. how long measures include improvement in psychological measures or stress, blood pressure and heart rate variablity. simply stated hrv is the measure. between heart beats and considers the contributions of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. a regular heart rhythm was thought to be opt now. we now know some variation in the heart rate is indicative of health. this is important because low hrv places officers at risk for sorted cardiac death. hrv is highest when we're jung and decreases with age. however it is possible continue prove hrv through training. our pilot studies reflect that -- reflect improvement on several measures, including the impact event scale, the measure of ptsd and significant improvement in diastolic blood pressure. the high prevalence of low hrv in officers compared to age determined norms. however post intervention many of the hrv values improved which is exactly what we hoped to see. we reviewed the daily heart rate activity by monitors worn by officers during 24 hour cycles at work and off day. we found the mean heart rates to be alarmingly high, even during sleep. one officer's heart rate was above 100 beats per minute. this still requires further testing of larger sample sizes -- [inaudible] -- to all agencies in the united states. applications are now -- [inaudible] -- [inaudible] -- the next step therefore, is a larger group of officers -- [inaudible] -- evaluate a package that is efficient we and cost effective way to measure hrv beyond using heart rate monitoring and develop a tool kit. now, caveat to this is we must continue to look at the coast benefit analysis for every new development and intervention. interventions like this one have the potential to save taxpayers million of healthcare dollars and money spent on stress related disability which a whole other discussion. recent research to shows practices that allow better self-regulate and modify theiring soal responses in the moment -- the psychological responses are taking place when stressful situations are taking place, has significant benefits for both the individual officers and organizations. with proper support, the department can expect reduction in health care human being utilization and cost, increased officer retention and job service and improvements in quality of police encounters with citizens. this training could be at the academy and we're starting to pilot an iteration of this with the milwaukee police department, with reinforcement provided to officers at in-service sessions. in conclusion i know it's the hope of the milwaukee police department and the university of iowa that this current effort to move toward development will benefit officers all over the nation by giving officers the tools to improve resiliency to distress, work performance and improve the officer's quality of life. >> thank you very much. >> did you hear any of that? >> thank you very much, doctor. and apologize for the difficulties that we have. we're going to return now for questioning, and dr. ramey, feel free to jump if if you have something you want to add as we move through the questioning process, case? >> okay, thank you. >> we're going to cedric alexander. >> this question is-for-dr. vilanante dr. miller and dr. ramey. if we look at the research you have done over the years as it relates to ptsd heart disease and suicide with older officers, see here, dr. vilanet you mentioned that suicide appears to cluster in the 44-year-old group and you also further testified here, too that large -- a rather large increase in suicide is seen in officers with 15 to 19 years of service. the question becomes, there's a population of police officers that are going out particularly those in my age group, okay where in the twilight of our careers, and much of what you're talking about, much of the research, i assume has been validated pretty much on this population on my population, if you will. now, if we consider the fact that there's a younger population of young men and women coming on police departments today, entirely different generation 21, 22 years of age and anecdotally, much healthier, grew up in a time where they become more health conscious because their parents are more health conscious, less likely to drink smoke, hang out do the police glee club kind of thing that contribute to a lot of these illnesses we're familiar with, and what is really striking is the fact that for many of these young people, they don't stay in the profession very long as well either. so they're not looking to do 20 or 30 years where there's going to be this amount of stressors they're going to endure over time that put them at risk. so i'd like each each you, because of your research and clinical work, expounds on that, but in addition to that as well, too, here's a real important question. when we send our military people to war and expose hem to the type of ptsd which usually goes beyond the normal realm of anyone's exposure is what ptsd grows out of they're therefore certain amount of time and policing your exposed to those stresses on the street in this country for 20 30, 35 years, over the course of your career. you're not in there for a year or two or two year tour you come out, get the help you need and good on with your life. for police it can be much longer, and if that is the case, would it be considerable -- would it be reasonable to consider that in the profession, and because of the stressors associated with policing on the streets of this country every day and everything that officer orr even spoke to as it relates to what officers have to deal with... i have seen a change amount over the ye

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