Water, theres no guarantee. Itll destroy our tourism which brings in to northern minnesota about 200 800 million per year. How many jobs will be lost when it leaks . How many . Doesnt matter which party you are, but we have to do the right thing. Both my opponents here Say Something completely different short term. I dont. I look for a long term. We need that here in northern minnesota. We need someone looking after our children and after our future generations. It may not happen in our time, but 20, 30 years down the road it will. Moderator thank you very much, mr. Sandman. Well get back to the mining issue in a minute. In the meantime, im going to offer the each of the candidates a chance for up to a one minute rebuttal if they want it on these negativetype stereotypes. Congressman nolan, would you like nolan yeah, i would. Mr. Mills says theres never been a federal Government Program that worked. Stewart, i submit you might want to take a look at Social Security, medicare, and i know your Party Platform calls for privatizing and abolishing both of them. Most people would agree theyve worked quite well. With regard to clean air, clean water, i remember when they had to haul clean water, Drinking Water into duluth because the water was so polluted. I remember when the lakes and rivers were so polluted that they were catching on fire and that acid rain was destroying our forests and lakes. I dont apologize for supporting clean water and clean air. Ive got as good an environmental record as youll find of anyone in the country, and i dont apologize for that. And as for the aca, my goodness, you know, people with cancer and Heart Disease and parkinsons are now able to get affordable insurance because of that. People are able to keep their kids on their insurance. People are protected from bankruptcy. Women are not charged more for the same policy that a man is charged for. You really oppose those things and want to repeal all those important advancements . Of course theres things that needed to be changed in the Affordable Care act, but its done a lot of good for a lot of people. And ive heard you say that there are not many people who suffer those circumstances. Well, im here to tell you, there are a lot of people who suffer those circumstances and are grateful for the Affordable Care act moderator thank you very much, congressman. Mr. Mills, one minute. Mills yes. Just to crept a couple of things correct a couple of things. First of all, i never said there arent many people that have preexisting conditions. What i said is as plan administrator, there are few people ive run across which are not covered by hipaa which allows you to go from your existing plan to another plan without having to worry about preexisting conditions. Also i never said that there was a federal Government Program that never worked. I nolan you just said that a minute ago. Mills hold on. May i have some time, sir . When i said the government has taken over the product or service, cost has gone up. Im not talking about Social Security and medicare. In the past you have said i wanted to abolish Social Security. Thats absolutely not true. And youve also said i want to turn medicare into a voucher system. Not true. And i challenge you to substantiate those remarks without editing my words together out of context. Nolan well, thank you for the challenge. The libertarian party, to which you are moderator congressman, can we give mr. Sandman a turn, please . Sandman when you talk about Affordable Health care, we need to make it affordable. We need to make it affordable, that bill needs to be taken out, and we dont have to start from the bottom up again, but we need to pull the best parts out of there and make it affordable. If youre a single mother with two children or three children, you cannot afford what is being offered out there now. Especially if you have a low paying job, minimum wage job. It needs to be what it says, affordable for everyone. Moderator very good. Thank you, roger . Okay, thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Farmers and agribusiness frequently complain that north dakota oil shipping is tying up the railroads, impacting delivery of crops to market. Discussion of that issue often leads to the question of pipelines. What is your position on safe transport of oil, the backlog of the commodities to market and, ultimately, where do you stand on expansion of pipelines . Mr. Mills . Mills well, certainly i support expansion of pipelines. Representative nolan said that he supported the keystone pipeline, then he got to washington and voted against the bill that would have made it that much more closer to that project Going Forward. He said he was for the embridge sandpiper pipeline, but just not on this route. Well, if we change the route of the pipeline, what happens is you delay it by four to five years, and it costs an additional 500 million, effectively killing the project. When you take a look at the 25 million worth of tax revenue that would come into our part of minnesota, thats 4 million a year alone for aiken county which sorely needs the tax revenue. And im endorsed by the farm bureau, and when i talk to those guys, you know, they have trouble getting their products to market. And, you know, because the rail cars are loaded with crude coming off of the bakken. So you know what . We need to go forward with the embridge pipeline. They can do it safely. We need to go forward with the keystone pipeline. Our economy depends on it. You cannot be for jobs and against the activities that create job ises. That create jobs. Moderator thank you. Mr. Sandman, your opinion, position on shipping oil and pipelines. Sandman thats not a hard decision for me because where theyre proposing to put that pipeline at runs underneath a lot of water, underneath a lot of wetlands. And if you watch the news, theres been all kinds of toxic spills up there. Is the science safe enough . I dont know. I dont think so. I know the president just the other day or someone, i may be wrong, talked about getting new tankers. Why not split that . Some for green, some for farm some for grain, some for farm products, some for the oil. But definitely reevaluate those routes that theyre talking about. I know we need oil, but at what cost . Hows it benefiting us . Mr. Mills talks about some tax revenue coming through. Will that outweigh the spill if we have to clean it up . Theres some real issues and some real thought to our environment that we need to think about and start doing about. Im proactive rather than reactive. We need to sit down at the table with the people involved and bring all these issues and concerns of the people before we make a final decision on it. But where i stand right now, no. No on that pipeline. Its just like hydraulics. You try pushing more oil through it, eventually its going to pop somewhere. We need to look at that. Thank you. Moderator thank you. Congressman . Nolan well, first of all, you know, ive taken the time to study the consequences of rail versus highway versus pipelines. And to be sure, there are problems associated with each and every one of them. And none of them are perfect. But with regard to sandpiper and with regard to keystone, you know, i do, in fact, support both of them. But mr. Sandmans made a couple of good points here. And i would like to add to that. First of all, theres probably 40,000 miles of pipelines running through minnesota right now. Every roads got a pipeline running down it, and theyre everywhere. I am convinced in my mind that pipelines have to be a part of the mix. They do, in fact, have a lower carbon footprint, they do have, are less prone to danger and the accident, and if we and to accident, and if we use American Steel in those pipelines as i have proposed in my regulation, they will be even safer. But when you talk about keystone, the Tea Party Republicans brought a bill before the house of representatives that exempted keystone, a foreign corporation, from having to comply with the epa, from having to get Army Corps Engineer permits for installation and for maintenance, for having to post financial assurances when those accidents inevitably occur. Would you have voted for a bill like that . No. Im for the keystone, and im for sand piper, but i want it to be done right. Weve proven that we have the technology and the know how to do these things and to do it right if we have the political will. But we cant let Foreign Corporations come in here willynilly and have their way with us. And the same could be said of sandpiper. Mr. Sandman has pointed out that some of that is going through some very fragile soils and waters, and we need sandpiper, but we can alter the route a little bit to make sure that we protect our precious waters, and thats what im for. Im for pipelines, but im for doing it the right way. Moderator thank you, congressman. Mr. Mills, rebuttal . Mills well, i keep getting accused of being a tea partier, but im not sure thats entirely accurate. None theless, the epa and the army corps of engineers has been weapon niced against projects weaponized against projects such as keystone. And you know what . After years and years of trying to get it done and if these agencies arent looking at how it can be done but flying to come up trying to come up with every reason how it can be stopped, you know what . Its time to get the peoples to take control of their government again from the bureaucracies and the various agencies so we can get projects like a keystone going, so we can improve our balance of trade, our balance of payments, so we can become Energy Independent and then become a net exporter of energy. So whether its keystone, whether its polymet, enough is enough. We have to get on with it. This is jobs, its our economy. This is the worst economic recovery in u. S. History, and we have various Government Agencies and bureaucracies for no good reason, all the hoops have been jumped through, the is have been dotted, the t have been crossed. Lets get on with it, lets reignite our economy. Moderator mr. Sandman, do you care to respond . Sandman not at this time. I mean, it doesnt make sense to me why endanger our wetlands for what it would bring to us. Theres not offset. I always look mr. Mills made the statement of camp doctrine, leaving it better. I dont see that happening when it does break. We dont have that technology, we dont have the funding for it. I cant see them stepping forward and doing it. I really dont. You know . We really need to take a look at this is dangerous. This is dangerous. For the small term benefit, for the longterm effects that will happen. Its not will it happen, but when it happens. Moderator thank you. Congressman, any final thoughts on that . Thol novel well, not to be repetitious but, you know, like i said, i grew up in a time when the lakes and rivers were so polluted, they were catching on fire. The Mississippi River where we lived, why, youd go down there in the spring and there was toilet paper and condoms and turds hanging on every branch, and that was the good stuff is. [laughter] that wasnt the toxic stuff. So, and you had to haul Drinking Water boo duluth into duluth, and acid rain was destroying our forests and lakes, and everybody said youve got to have jobs or environment, you cant have both. Well, guess what . We went to work, we proved we have the brains, we have the technology to do both, and to do both, we must. Our waters are precious, our jobs are precious, our mining, our manufacturing is precious, rebuilding this middle class is precious. And with regard to the economics of that, you dont rebuild the middle class by giving more tax cuts to the super rich and billionaires and fighting against a minimum wage for people that have to work two and three jobs just to make a living. Thats not rebuilding the middle class. Thats not restoring the balance, and thats a not restoring the american dream. Moderator thank you. Thank you, congressman, for the sound bite. Next issue [laughter] perhaps the most polarizing issue in northern minnesota and, of course, were in northern minnesota, has been Precious Metals mining, the copper, nickel mining. People say government is dragging its feet, its taking too long, its taken nine years. There are folks who say it cant possibly be done safely. Gentlemen, where do you stand on Copper Nickel mining . Can it be done safely . Do you have any confidence in that at all . And mr. Sandman, this is your big issue. Well start with you, sir. Sandman no, it cannot be done safely, not at this time. And even though we do not have the science more that. So i oppose that wholeheartedly because i know what it can do and what it will do. Just about a month ago a mine up there in British Columbia broke and dumped five billion gallons of toxic waste into the river. No, its the same technology that the mining is proposing, and make a containment field for that polluted water. But where theyre looking at putting that is already in a mine that is already leaking into the watershed. So i dont support that at all. But what i do support is the Northern Lights passenger train. I think my opponents will agree we need to get big money out of congress. We need to stop giving subsidies to the corporations. We need to have the corporations start paying their darn taxes. Now we can redirect some of that funding into northern minnesota. So that we can go on with other projects that are less environmental deadly. And we talk about 2300 jobs . Northern lights they were talking about the other day 13,800 jobs for the eighth district. Thats something to look at. They may be temporary, but three, four years down the road maybe Something Else will happen. We dont need that mine up there. So moderator thank you very, very much. Representative nolan on Precious Metals mining, sir. Nolan well, first of all, i grew up on the iron range. Mining is a huge part of what we do and who we are. Our economy, its been said up here, is based on timber, tourism. Nobody enjoys the Great Outdoors more than we to up here. Our water, our forests, our lakes, we treasure them. Thats why we live here. But i reject the argument that because something has never been done before safely, that it cant be done. There was never an internal combustion engine. There was never a catalytic converter, or there was never a scrubber on a coalfired power plant to scrub the sulfur out of them. We didnt have the scrubbers to take all the toxic waste out of our lakes and our rivers and be our streams. I submit, i submit that we now have the technology, we now have the brain power. All we have to have is the resolve and the will to do it right. And, you know, on your right here my opponent suggests we should do away with all these epa regulations and onerous rulings. Rules and regulations which, by the way, have cleaned up our air and our water. And a little over one generation increased Life Expectancy from about 47 to about 90. Maybe one of the greatest achievements in the history of humanity. No, i submit that we must be compliant with good, sound environmental rules and regulations, and we have the technology to move ahead with mining. These are minerals that are badly needed. Its a huge part of our jobs, our economy, our culture, and we need to protect our environment just as well. Because that, too, is a critically essential part of our economy and our culture. Moderator thank you very much, mr. Mills. Sounds like there might be some Common Ground here . Mills well, not really. [laughter] you know what . Im for it. You know what . Polymet is amazingly well thought out. The science, the engineering is there. After nine years, theres no reason why we shouldnt be going for it. Obviously, mr. Sandman is ainst it, and were not quite sure where representative nolan is. In the last election cycle he blasted Jeff Anderson and the other representative for their support of the Strategic Minerals act and then went and voted for it. The Duluth News Tribune had a scathing guest editorial which outlined rick nolan, representative nolans flipflops. Almost, most recently in september in the du ruth news tribune, how hes supporting polymet, and they did a scathing editorial complete with a video outlining representative nolans flipflops. So he can say hes for it right now, but where is he going to be tomorrow . And, you know, you can look at all this stuff is online. Its not really, did not, did too, did not, did too. Just go look it up for yourself. Thank you. Moderator thank you. One minute, mr. Sandman, if youd like. Sandman we dont have the science for cleanup when it happens. Simple as that. I look at whats happening now without the mine being there. We have the metal mercuries that are in the water, and the fish already. One in ten babies here in northern minnesota show a higher elevated, elevation of that metal in their blood. Our babies. What will happen when this happens . Its not if, its when. Its when it happens. We were the ones that are going to suffer. Our children are the ones that are going to suffer. Your grandchildren. It wont affect us right now. But you go down two generations, it will. And if their record so great, why are all the accidents happening with this type of mining around the world . It is unsafe because we cannot take care of it when out happens. When it happens. Thank you. Moderator thank you. Congressman, one minute, please. Nolan well, i do support polymet, i have always supported polymet, i have always supported mining, and i have always supported doing it the right way in compliance with good, clean air, water, health and safety standards. Now, obviously, you take issue with the standards, and you take issue with the mining. My position has been consistent, it has been clear, and you can say thats being on both sides of the issue, and i would say, yeah, youre darn right it is. I am for mining, and im for doing it the right way. And with