Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20140422 :

communities was corn as well as vegetables like squash and peas. >> growing rice requires a kind of hydraulic system with canals and guides and gates and it's probably not something maroons would have been in a position to construct. >> they were small plots. that was one of the things also. they were rather small so again when you grow rice it has to be even more extended. >> the final question. >> i haven't read your work but i'm looking forward to it. i have a question. in relationship to the maroons looking at louisiana want to focus on that before the louisiana purchase and being in haiti there was a lot of transfer between slaves from haiti and louisiana to this -- through the french connection and also being that in 1793 the first refugee crisis in america when the french planters came to louisiana and their words a lot of interconnections and in haiti there is a large population of maroons. so being there would you think that is also something that could have led to the spread of the marans? >> i'm not sure because maroons and louisiana didn't get encouragement or anything from anybody. so i don't think haiti would have had an influence on that particular. >> let us all thank sylviane diouf. [applause] and we can reconvene in the alcove where the book will be available. so see you there. [inaudible conversations] >> for more than a year there have been allegations that i knew about the planning of the watergate break-in and that i was involved in an extensive plot to cover it up. the house judiciary committee is now investigating these charges. on march 6, i ordered all materials that i had previously furnished to the special prosecutor turned over to the committee. these included tape recordings of 19 presidential conversations and more than 700 documents from private white house files. on april 11, the judiciary committee issued a subpoena for 42 additional tapes of conversations which it contended were necessary for its investigation. i agreed to respond to that subpoena. up next on booktv historian david brion davis on his book "the problem of slavery in the age of emancipation." this is his final volume on a 3-volume history. >> welcome. on behalf of the center i would like to welcome you all here for a think what is a moment as and a landmark event for us, an evening honoring the launch of brian davis new book. a couple of acknowledgments and brief introductions and then we will start the program and turn the program over to the speakers out there but i would like to begin by sending my thanks to my colleague and friend dr. held rockman who was the person who arranged for this event and brought professor davis in the center together. i would also like to tell -- thank a shell from the publishers the publishers of the book as well as leslie irvine on the gilded learning institute for the help and cooperation in arranging this evening. i also would like to very much welcome and recognize alan and francis numbers of the simon wiesenthal board of trustees who have taken the time to come here this evening as well. thank you for that. a few brief words of introduction for my part. one of the reasons that i was so led i jumped at this effort and the was because this work and the work of professor davis has meant such a great deal to us. personally my own work has benefited from some of professor davis's writings particularly years ago when i was researching and preparing anti-semitism and anti-catholicism a minute to give you an example of the breath of professor davis's work. also we are greatly indebted to professor davis in firmly confronting anti-semitism reticulated a few decades ago when it was a time of great controversy and great tension and yet he stood out and forthrightly condemned what needed to be condemned and did it in a scholarly and dispassionate manner that left a great impression. in many ways it is an natural fit for the salmon -- simon wiesenthal center -- a person who after liberation devoted his life to bringing justice to the victims of the holocaust and becoming a human rights champion in a broad sense trying to ensure that the lessons of that period would never be forgotten and no group jewish or others would ever suffer such a fate again. in a sense there is a great affinity between that and the work of professor davis. for example it doesn't take more than a cursory glance at her own world to see how short of the ideal way of fallin decided by the defeat of the nazi genocide and says oppression and genocide are continually present in our world today. professor davis reminds us in the epilogue of this book that slavery still exists under certain conditions the restored on a large scale in certain areas in today's world. the affinity runs deeper. professor davis' life was shaped by the events of world war ii. as he himself has written and stated quote living in the shadows of the holocaust amid the rubble and roads of the world's greatest war to embark on his kirson is torn with the goal of the superficial facts of propaganda for presentation of an overall conference if you go but people didn't thought and why they did it and finally to make people stop and think before blindly following a row to make the world safer. this was written in 1946 and the only thing i would suggest has changed is the list who endanger democracy has grown longer and wider. as i wrote the book i was drawn to the relationship similarities end differences between the holocaust and the system of slavery that professor davis explores. some brief examples that came to mind with the role of the victims often ignored in the first wave of study for example in dealing with the holocaust, a landmark study. it dealt fully with the documentation the witnesses from the oppressor side, the nazi side and totally ignored the role and the impact on the victims of the holocaust itself which leads us to the consideration of the need and cost of collaboration which is exemplified by the telling quote from frederick douglass that professor davis twice brings in the new book about quote self-preservation at minimal cost and degradation and loss of self-respect. that in turn is a question much raised in the literature to the holocaust. what is the impact of survival? and is currently examined in the new film the last of the unjust. these issues are of course terms of demonization and again atomization which professor davis uses in his aspirations and their internalization in the impact they have on the communities. they go a long way to shaping the discourse of human impression. even the role of space angiography is raised which is also reflected in current literature of the holocaust's and timothy steiner's important book or the killing sites of eastern europe and the balkans were nazis slaughtered more victims than they murdered in all the death camps. there are of course differences as well. one fundamental distinction is that while slavery resulted in the economic -- and the holocaust economic needs were coordinated to the pursuit of genocide thus rendering any method of accommodation by the jewish population effectively useless. fundamentally it comes down to the idea that we must learn to have brighter future or is professor davis concludes history matters and i would add it also helps to have a master teacher who can inspire us to grow for on questions of this professor davis has done for many years. tonight we are to celebrate the launch of the third and final volume of the trilogy "the problem of slavery in the age of emancipation". we have to distinguish speakers who will join professor davis and conversation about the book and anything else they want to talk about. following following that you're all invited downstairs for reception and book signing and you can wander through our museum of tolerance which attempts to deal with a much different matter with some of the same issues that professor davis worked upon. before introduced the speakers i would ask anyone to silence their cell phones or whatever electronics they are holding onto and to remind you we are being filmed by c-span. there will be time for questions afterwards and now i would like to introduce our speakers. i want to introduce to students, former students of professor davis who are now must -- master scholars and researchers in their own right and the internal introduce will introduce their teacher as they go along with the offense. sitting closest to me is william casey who earned his ph.d. from yale university and was honored to be the final doctoral student. dr. king's work includes a pbs documentary the life and work of the african-american -- coproduced with philadelphia museum of art award-winning children's books that play he wrote and directed on the mother of the american revolution mercy otis warren and a rendition published by yale university press previous written for the "washington post" "the wall street journal" washington times. executor after the deadbeat deep dubois african-american research. he now lectures at yale and history of ideas while serving as executive director of analytical science for the -- he was the co-recipient of a grant from darpa is part of the white house research and development institute and developing tools to counter money laundering in the department treasury. they collaborate on a young adult book on slavery and anti-slavery. john sofford is professor of english american studies and african-american african-american studies at harvard university. he writes and lectures on the civil war era anti-slavery social justice movements of the data view. he he is the author of aleph books and 60 articles including two books that are national bestsellers. his most recent book co-authored with benjamin's focus is the battle of the republic of the republic of either of the of the summer marches on in the lincoln prize finalist in the best book of 2013. his essays have repaired in times "wall street journal" neera times "washington post" "huffington post" and numerous scholarly books. the state department's national information program. it's been a consultant into hollywood films quentin turrentine knows janco in a screenplay by david ross jones. he appeared in a pbs documentary and was advisor for the film. without background, those backgrounds i think we are all looking forward to an incredibly exciting discussion and the floor is yours. [applause] >> our goal in this is to have a conversation and we are all part of this conversation. before we launch into this informal discussion you know we often have dinner together at least once a year and meet at the union league café. the professor will, and share a couple dozen oysters and have a conversation about anything and everything. maybe some oysters might help. and a bottle of wine but i'm going to turn the floor over to john sofford to introduce my friend and mentor. >> we will hopefully allow david to give the summary not only of the slavery and emancipation and his trilogy and briefly his public life. i will start with a very brief summary. as most of you know david is the sterling professor emeritus at yale university. he has won virtually every award that and historian can win including the pulitzer prize, the national book award, the president of american historians is -- and casey and i wanted to start by having davis elucidated that at this background that led to this trilogy and the introductory remarks, one of the things that was highlighted was you became interested in slavery in the shadow of the holocaust as a world war ii or post-world war ii soldier. i'm wondering if he would be willing to elaborate on the background that led you to become interested in slavery and abolition at a time in which the subject was for the large part unexplored, unwritten. there were a few books let you to a large degree help to create the field of slavery and abolition. as you know in the preface of the problem of slavery in the age of emancipation stamp was an important influence on you but in terms of abolition studies. >> what a departure from your first book which was a study of homicide and literature. he is at cornell and publishes book and dissertation, he was careful to remind me that he did his dissertation three and a half years as mine went on and on. all of a sudden he turns to slavery and anti-slavery at a time in the 60s when nations were being torn apart bi-racial strife and racial tension. i'm just fascinated by how you would make this paradigm shift or shift in interest. >> let me start by simply saying it did extend over to slavery in the sense that i was very much interested in the history of ideas. i was hired at cornell in 1955 to teach history which was already beginning to be seen as an elitist brand of study as we have this vast flood of social history taking over the whole field of history. i was interested in finding concrete subjects like homicide or universal subjects like homicide or slavery is the most extreme form of domination. it's a way of looking at changes and moral perception of these forms of behavior. so there was that connection but i did as i mentioned briefly in the introduction in the 1930s and early 40s my family traveled all over the country. i went to many different schools, five high schools in four years but i never was in a classroom with african-americans. in other words even though i was in the north it was in a segregated society. that all ended when i was drafted into the army in early 1945 and was trained for the invasion of japan, and i was down in georgia for the first time in the south where i saw jim crow america at its worst. then suddenly the war in japan ended. i was on a cruise ship bound for germany and was ordered to go down into the hole of the ship to keep the they said from gambling. i never had any idea there were any blacks on the ship but it was like a slave ship. this went on until i became security in germany and was called out where there were shooed out conflict between white and black american soldiers partly because there were many german girls who love to date black soldiers and there were many white soldiers who are outraged by this. so my experience in germany where he spent a year in 45 and 46 was an experience that for the first time introduced me to the racial issues of the country in a very dramatic way. there also was the holocaust of course. i was in the shadow of that and saw many survivors. we protected them going through the stuttgart and so one were called out to protect truckload after truckload of survivors. so i was opened up to a lot of different new things as they very young soldier. as i went with the g.i. bill on to college i was interested in the racial issue even though i fail to take part in the actual civil rights movement. i read a good many works on race and when i was in graduate school at harvard kenneth m. stamp who was a very distinguished historian from berkeley came for a semester to teach at harvard. he had been near my apartment and we became good friends. the first really great book on slavery in the american south was not based on the assumption that blacks were inferior to whites. it was a very serious book. suddenly talking with him made me realize and might classes at dartmouth as an undergraduate there had been hardly anything said about slavery let alone abolitionism. this opened up a whole new prospect while i was working on homicide. prospect of slavery and anti-slavery in fields that i would go into a bit later. when i fortunately in 1955 got a professorship at cornell to teach american history i began bringing material on slavery into that. when i was super lucky to get a guggenheim fellowship and 58 and when not to britain because the head of the guggenheim thought i should go abroad given my interests i immersed myself in london on what became the problem of slavery in western culture, what was going to be a background chapter on the background on slavery became a whole book. i was launched that way on the first of three volumes. >> did you imagine one day you would write a trilogy? >> i did. >> so when you finished what is supposed to be my first chapter? >> i anticipated i would be writing more. in ott. >> i'm not sure exact rate. i'm not positive. >> so just going in the wake of the narrative david, both of his parents were writers, his mom and his dad. his father was in gable's first film after the war. >> yes. >> you was there a time when he thought i would really like to be a writer as well? >> i very much was interested in writing, yes. though actually when i was an undergraduate i took some summer classes at columbia university and french language and in writing fiction. there was a very well-known woman teacher. she didn't recognize my efforts that summer. >> i was also struck when i remember we had a discussion about the necessity to drop the atomic oman japan and i remember you telling me that they told you to prepare for the invasion of japan that you fully believed you were going to go there and die and they informed you of that at that moment. >> i don't know about absolutely dying but we knew when we hit those beaches of japan it would make normandy look like nothing. they emphasize that in our training. we were having to use all kinds of weapons. in georgia they had fake japanese villages that we were capturing and so on. i actually having had physics in high school when the atomic bombs were dropped behind her stood what mc squared meant and i thought we would never have any wars after this. it seemed as if without those bombs we still would have would have been hitting the beaches of japan. >> the other thing i want to circle back to is you said you talked at cornell intellectual history which became the basis for studying slavery and anti-slavery. did you feel it necessary to because you are doing something new and something that worked against american origin myths was that the way you couch it was intellectual cultural history? >> it went way beyond slavery. i was interested in a broad survey of american intellectual and cultural history. i was teaching large lecture class -- classes as well as seminars. >> was a resistance to teaching slavery and anti-slavery? i mean at the time especially coming to yale and a lot of work looking at attitudes towards anti-slavery in the academy. >> before i ask that question i'm curious if you could just summarize some of the challenges that you face when you are writing "the problem of slavery in the age of emancipation" and the problem of slavery in the age of revolution which were very different periods. one published in 1966 and the published -- second published in 1975 and then the challenges that you faced as you tackle the problem of slavery. >> one beginning point of importance. i had other works at that time related to the problem of slavery and western culture. that was originally an introductory chapter of a book where i needed to give some background on slavery and western culture so as i worked in britain thanks to this guggenheim fellowship it grew and grew. i go back to antiquity and look at western culture in general and slavery in general. it's somewhat more intellectual history. certainly there's there is not much social history and it but when i moved on to the problem of slavery in the age of revolution i'm dealing with the industrial revolution as well as the american and french revolutions and political revolutions and so one. so i'm beginning to deal with what the abolition's -- abolitionists were up against. why any given moment in history that a small group of men and women come to see slavery and it's absolutely terrible when it had been accepted pretty much for a millennia going back to aristotle and so on. in the age of revolution i am dealing with the transformation of more perception so quite a few people who feel we have got to do something about it. but the relationship with that and the need for example to legitimate and free -- with this book i'm able to be much more selective because i have written eight different books on the subject between the age of revolution and the age of emancipation including a broad survey called in human bondage the rise and fall of slavery in the new world which is an overall survey. i didn't want to repeat that survey material here and here i was able to select particular themes and subjects beginning with the dehumanization of the attempt to dehumanize slaves and then going on with the asian revolution and i decode quite a few chapters to the so-called trauma to station of the broad consensus in the u.s. in the north and the south and no thought of real slave emancipation in a large way unless you somehow deported or moved the freed slaves outside of the u.s.. i felt it had been grossly misunderstood. the crucial role of free blacks in the north and the colonization and launching an immediate abolition movement whites and blacks in the 1830s committed to what they called the immediate emancipation of slaves. the role of locks themselves whether in haiti or rebels fighting the french and spanish were free blacks as i move on. i'm selecting things here and not trying to repeat. >> is one of the really unique things about this book for me. here he is in his ninth decade in the field of slavery and anti-slavery has caught up with him. there are so many monographs that come out and david turns to the last of the strategies and manages to do something -- and a year and a half by the way. we would have lunch and he would complain about how slow the work was going. this is in the middle of the bad fall where he had broken a hip. a year and a half it took. he would say i don't know what's wrong. touching on the theme of dehumanization trilogy i was wondering if you could really look to, turn to the haitian revolution chapter and may be read bit from your book. dehumanization and minimal as asian of the slaves and former enslaved humans is really something that you get at quite eloquently. this is in the chapter the first emancipator's. >> do you want me to read there? on january 2, 1893 frederick douglas rose to deliver his speech dedicating the haitian pavilion at the zakat -- chicago world's fair. douglas was intimately involved in planning the pavilion. he took the opportunity of free speech to navigate the commons area type that haitians were lazy barbarians who devoted their time to voodoo and child sacrifice. what is more significant is douglas use the speech to reflect back on the past century of slavery emancipation. douglas after all was worn a slave and he had won international fame through a service of black emancipation. as the most prominent black spokesmen and statements -- it's spokesmen had no problem of identifying one of those central events and emancipation in the rights we should not forget where he speaks we should not forget that the freedom you and i enjoy today, that the freedom that 800,000 colored people enjoyed in the west indies the freedom that has become of the colored race the world over is largely due to the brave stand taken by the black sons of haiti 90 years ago when they struck for freedom they struck for the freedom of every black man in the world. he made sure to note that the american and british abolitionists including anti-slavery societies and countries around the world both blacks he noted in, or -- [inaudible] it was haiti that struck first for emancipation and it was quote the original pioneer emancipator of the 19th century. haiti has instructed the world about the dangers of slavery and demonstrated the latent powers and their past capabilities of their race had only to be awakened. .. in fact, he knew the four whites haiti was a hell of horrors. the very name pronounced with a shudder. and, indeed, the revolution had inevitably had contradictory effects. as an abolitionist from 18411865, douglas had avoided mention of the haitian revolution in his public speeches, debates, and interviews. the abolitionist knew the perceptions of the event all too well. for some the revolution had been an object lesson. in the inevitable social and economic ruin that would attend any form of emancipation. for others it signaled blood, a veritable like massacre. yet this would not change that the haitian revolution was a watershed event. >> ask a question about colonization. you devote four chapters in your book. so could you summarize why colonization was so attractive to so many different kinds of people. >> well, in the beginning going way back to the 18th century, the minds of people simply returning africans, those who have been born and brought from africa, recruiting them back to their continent. so for example, samuel hopkins, a descendant, a protege of jonathan edwards who was motivated by disinterested benevolence, when he moved in 1770 to newport, rhode island he wanted to do something about slavery. he tried to make it possible for the black slaves who were freed to return to africa. he is and many of them would want to go. but as you move on into the 19th century, of course, more and more slaves were born into america. the slave trade had been cut off. so, and also, there's always a great danger of being read enslaved. but police still are, well, as more and more slaves were freed in the north, in 17 a.d. in pennsylvania and so on, there's more and more slaves, you had that tremendous increase in anti-black racism. and blacks were denied virtually all regular rights and privileges. and there was a broadening consensus among whites that the only way you would ever get published opinion behind abolition would be if the free slaves were moved back to africa or possibly in the 1820 thousands went to a. many returned. and actually, various went along with almost paul coffey and was half black and half indian, cotton and very wealthy, and shipping empire. in in 1816 to sierra leone, the british colony. colony there would be a kind of model showing how free blacks could achieve various things. he actually was in touch with a british abolitionist. even interviewed president james madison. imagine a black man interview in madison. he would not call impressed -- president madison. he called and james. [laughter] >> and he died unfortunately in 1817. his own influence might have been beneficial on the movement. james, in philadelphia, who had been a great inventor anne l. was before colonization in the beginning. so richard allen who was the major religious leader in philadelphia, in january 1817 the american colonization society, he had 3,000 african americans, 3,000. put it to a vote. anything to do with composition, so they had to shift, and it took them a little while to change their minds, but they had to go along with the overwhelming views of african-americans in philadelphia. and there were opposing the colonization society, so they got set up in 1817. the colonization society which had been -- well, forgot to say that jefferson was -- president jefferson was really not for colonization. president lincoln, even after the emancipation proclamation for some time, he still would clang of a bit to some kind of colonization. so i think it's come misunderstood cause. one thing i'd to agree on is that in the basque literature published by the colonization society, there is very, very, very little that even hints at inherent inferiority on the part of blacks. there's the prejudice and lack of price to greeted, infinitely degraded blacks in america, but if they were in africa they could even become missionaries and so on. so i think we have to look much more carefully. that's why i did of various chapters to the subject. many to look quite carefully at this will colonization concept, which was -- which did promote, as the black realized, but i devote a lot of space to this in the book. >> you also devote an extraordinary amount of space to the role of free blacks in emancipation. in fact, you have a chapter title that, for me, both when i read in manuscript form and again in published form, the title itself i've found revolutionary. free blacks is the key to emancipation. and i said revolutionary because free blacks never constituted more than 13% of the black population, and roughly 1% of the american population. so given that small number comparatively very small number of free blacks, why were they the key to emancipation? >> i think above all in resisting the hopes of the american colonization society that they could be persuaded to get syllabary. -- to go to liberia. and in the 18 twenties as i show, we began publishing their own newspaper, freedom journal published by samuel cornish. then goes and converts to the colonization side and goes off. so as i stress, by the 1850's of very large number of black leaders except for douglas have been braced one form or another of colonization. in this comes on down to the 1920's. marcus garvey has the first mass black movement. the back to africa movement. and while he is scorned and all, but marvin to king went to waco wreath on his grave in jamaica and, because the black movement someone, so even as late as the 1920's we have carryovers where kirby actually places they see as committee american colonization society and praises the white. -- but the main issue that chapter raises is the need to uplift and elevate free blacks and the more so that they will be capable of achievement. and i . out how not only frederick douglass james mckuen smith to goes to scotland and becomes a very successful doctor in new york city, very, very important, but we have various kinds of the 1850's, enormous free black achievements in this effort to uplift the free black population. this is obscured by the dread scott decision, various things in the 50's. >> and you also place a lot of emphasis on the importance of futures, fugitive slaves in town that contributes to an emancipation. >> oh, yes. >> could you not bring on that? >> of course, the most famous of all the fugitives was fredericton the essence of who escaped in 1838 and then who in 1841 was invited and errors to give a speech or all of the massachusetts liberal society was meeting. all these people were spellbound by his speech. incorporated into the movement, but with regard to fugitives, there has been a good bit of misunderstanding. i go along with the idea that there are a number of fugitives that was never large enough to endanger the institution and anyway and the south, even though in the south itself huge numbers of slaves were running away. but in the 1850's well over 50 pounds slaves ran away from their owners but did not go far. in the free nor, by 1860 there were about 45,000 fugitives living in the north, it was an effective system. ideologically it was enormous since the u.s. constitution, of course, of 40 using the word slave. they tried to prevent northern states that were already beginning, to prevent them from giving hey shelter and refuge. and in 93, of course the fugitive slave low. and only about 298 slaves or return to slavery by the end of the 1960, but it was something that, the fugitive slave issue resurrected, and it's -- so it had a big impact on the coming of the civil war. >> back to the issue of free blacks and the fact you are really highlighting. in the book and also giving a range of experience. as a depiction of the north is this ideal community. and john pointed out that actually did was an accurate of this one community. for the majority of free blacks in america at that time, as you point out one of your chapters, the challenges were far more significant. freedom from slavery did not mean freedom from racial oppression. and he is wonderful, this really wonderful moment and is really unusual, especially a professor of history, but all of a sudden we are in third person. david demands that you take a tremendous amount of imagination to re imagine what it was to be a free black. the space of a free black in america at that time. i was wondering -- >> to we have time? >> is such a great moment. >> it's got unleaded and i realized. >> to look to questions in the second. this is just -- maybe you can give an abbreviated -- i think this goes back to the fact that this book, it's really fine history, would also really fine writing. it such a pleasure to read, and he takes most people are afraid to take in stories as writers. >> and currie. i'll skip over some of the things. up to start by saying, the obvious point man for the general public, especially in america, the key issue raised by abolitionism was the condition of free slaves. and while many free blacks over cam formidable barriers to a great achievement, they were still up against his of their incapacity and loss of self-respect and someone. the demand to keep negros in a place since a one. the complexities of the struggle especially concerning such issues, the special imagine the effect on the author and reader. we must try to start to imagine what would have been like to have been a free black abolitionist in the into the lenore. so ivan's which. and have a different kind of dog . as fellini gross income it 1840's abolitionists and most of the blacks are always conscious that most of our brethren are slaves in the south and that we can easily be kidnapped or officially arrested and sold in the sow. suddenly deprived of our family members and are very names. but in some ways free blacks are better off in the deep south. free blacks are. new laws have been fast to keep us from entering or settling in states nor of the ohio river. now it times they have passed ordinances requiring us to register or even post bond for good behavior. most states deny us the right to vote, sit on juries, or even testify against whites in court. most free blacks are in a letter , and even her children have little chance of retaining a preschool education. perhaps most important, we are surrounded by white supremacy and are constantly viewed as inferior people in our daily interactions with whites who sometimes verbally careers or ridiculous or even spit up on us in this tree and his the yen's climb when we bowel or step up the wall to let the bass. no matter how close we might become a to a white friend we cannot accompany him or her to most restaurants, hotels, stores, libraries, lectures, concert, and public places except for a very few radical communities. >> i remember when he was contemplating his departure. i'm sorry that my editor may not -- me bristled of switching of got one word for you. >> you have to keep -- your not allowed to change that. so we open it up for questions. i just want to end by saying that this trilogy, it began 48 years ago. the problem of slavery in western culture was published in 1966, won the pulitzer prize in 1967. the pulitzer prize reliefer history was perry miller's a posthumous book the life of the mind in america from the revolution to the civil war, who union from harvard. you have great respect. to give you a sense of the significance of the problem, went back to perry miller's life in the mind of america from the revolution to the civil war. there is not a single mention of slavery or abolition in that entire book. >> not one in history. >> up against in cold blood. in slavery and the age of revolution, both of them, many other awards. the problem with slavery in the age of emancipation. i will bet money that it will win many very prestigious awards throughout this entire time you have also directed, what, over 60, 58 dissertations including mine, cases, many of you in this room, many you are here and a number of others. your graduate students or former graduate students are represented at every major research institution in the united states and many abroad. not just the field of history, but the field has to versus english, law, public health. i mean, it's true the extraordinary. and the conclusion of this trilogy 48 years later is an extraordinary inspiration, not just to historians, but said every writer, to everyone who writes. and so want to thank you for that inspiration. >> i can't thank you enough for the review you wrote in the wall street journal. [laughter] >> when they asked me, i confessed. david was my student. i would love to do it, but i have to disclose my relationship. they let me write it. i acknowledge my relationship by saying that he directed my dissertation. so it was -- and was a real honor for me. >> it was an honor for me to have you doing. no wonder we opened up for questions, comments, criticisms to bid. >> thank you so very much. the first time i came, said, the concept in history of slavery. slavery was, of course. in those days there were not many in. >> reporter: the. one always bothered me is the use of the bible, both in defending slavery and fighting for emancipation. of course it is abhorrent to me that the bible would defend. on the other hand there's no question that those who fought for emancipation did use the bible. we mentioned a few individuals to be so on was wondering, i've read your books, in your judgment what is the wake of the bible in that particular balance of the struggle to defend slavery or to fight against it? what is the role of the bible? i kristine and admirer of the bible. nothing personal it played a very important role. i would very much like to hear your voice. >> sense of very, very important and extremely complicated question. the bible, of course, happens all kinds of conflicting messages. in fact, in the bible study groups we have just been reading parts that call for and justify genocide where it's pretty shocking to see that the lord is calling for no wiping out of an entire people. and, of course, there are rumors in parts of the bible and a to give justification for slavery. but also, it seems to me the other great actress lynyrd is extremely important in the sense that the a chosen people, the jews, freed from slavery in egypt. and oh lord brings them out of egypt. and this exodus paradigm becomes extremely important for large numbers of african-american slaves whom were in the bible and read from the bible. so are thing to her it, you know, depends on the way you look at it. that's going to be the most important. >> there was a comparison and possibly made between the economic logic of slavery called successful verses the idea that logic and genocide undermines economic self-interest. d.c. that as part of the anti slavery movement and was connected to an economic logic of slavery was not compatible with the new industrial free-market economy and the new ideology of free labor? and doesn't slavery in the same way that genocide raise the question of the problem of evil and excessive aggression and society. my final question is, how do you explain the fact that the equivalent of zionism within african-american social movement to not reached the same success that they did within the jewish society after the call costs. >> there were, i guess, three questions. the one that -- on of the confused. well, the problem, and the age and revolution i examined in some detail the issue of free liberal ideology. and i think the that there is no question the need in britain a special, pioneering industrial revolution, the need to justify the kind of industrial labor in the late 18th century the was really taking hold among contributing to the anti slavery movement and indeed there was a proslavery writer in britain and claimed, in effect, but the old abolition movement that was rise in the late 18th century was an attempt to divert attention from the terrible and exploits, exploitation of workers in britain. it was much worse. he went on and on about how much worse the and it was, industrial workers in britain and a slave states. and it even said, this famous crimes did in his hand of the launching points of the anti slavery movement. mcgee said, why doesn't cambridge apprises for answers on the industrial working, the children and women in the mines. and so you begin with the approach slavery argument that is directed in norway. and i think it will be a mistake to point it the abolitionists or consciously trying to, you know, justify bad things in england, but there's of very complex relationship there between the two. is the part of your question? >> it was incredibly profitable. >> as the other thing. actually, one of the things that we probably won't have time to talk about the movie in the books he mumbled one of the things that troubles me a bit about 12 years has laid, in in the book is that, as you know, the free northern from the york state who was kidnapped and taken to the south for 12 years, he argues that the cruelty is mainly the fault of the system, that you're bound to have people who will exploit slaves if you have a system like this, but he's arguing the system is very uneconomical. and if you take solomon on cribs views on free labor versus labor , you would not appeal to explain why slavery in the south was so immensely productive and practical and even though they reusing the lash so much to drive this lives on and on and on. and that raises an interesting question. >> the other part of your question, the comparison of dyne is. >> well, there is an article. you thinking of that? well, there's a new article in the israeli left-wing magazine which draws a distinct parallels between the treatment of palestinians today by the israelis and black slavery in the new world qb now, the author , again and again from trying to draw a complete para. there are very few, you know, between the treatment of palestinians and the treatment of black slaves. so it doesn't stand up as all that convincing have a case. but then we have all kinds of the efforts to compare human trafficking of various sorts and other kinds of oppressions with racial slavery in the past. this gives a very controversial. >> professor davis, about six of seven years ago in london you're the keynote speaker at a conference of historians sponsored by the templeton foundation on the subject, is their meaning in history. >> is there what? >> meaning in history. it was a somewhat controversial subjects for most professional historians who ducked the question. there were noted historians from pan, oxford, cambridge, and elsewhere. you were the keynote speaker. you deferred answering the question until the final lecture, your presentation. he said, well, i don't know but i can't answer that question. it's not my agent, but i have a hard time explaining how within a short time frame and 60, 70, 80, 90 years the world turned on its head in its attitude towards liberty. i can't explain it. in light of your -- now, you had not read the last of your trilogy. would you care to comment or extend your remarks? >> on afraid i'd still remember this and all. i think my attempts to explain as well as i can have there was this revolutionary moral regions of the from the 1780's when -- well, 1777 in vermont adopt a constitution all warring slavery in 1780 pennsylvania passes a law for the gradual emancipation of slaves in pennsylvania. a few years later they are in correspondence with london and pennsylvania. so by the 1780's you've got anti slavery organizations beginning to rise up. and by 1888 even know and 1776 library was legal and thriving from canada to argentina, in 1888 when brazil finally outlawed slavery in the space of 100 years we outlaw slavery throughout the entire hemisphere i think this is a very, very remarkable event which are really conclude by saying we need not to forget that there has been some small progress as possible. >> in fact, in this book and in a human bondage to highlight the importance of the real moral achievement that is extremely important in history. would you mind reading the very last paragraph of your book? at think it's really rich and profound. >> well, i'm talking and i approach the end of the boat i'm talking about human trafficking fortuity and how the century that brought the end of slavery in the new world, that century depended on all kinds of fortuitous events along the way. if my friends and i'm were suddenly stripped of our 20th century conditioning and plumbing back to mississippi in 1860 hollywood always take for granted non law undersleeves, human nature, and say, does not change. so an astonishing historical achievement likeness since an act really matters. an astonishing historical achievement really matters. the outline of slavery in the new world and in global view represents a crucial to remarkable par rounds of we should never forget. [applause] >> book tv continues tomorrow with stories from the white house. >> mike on? oh, yes. sorry for that. of want to get started because, as you know, we run a tighter ship as we can. good morning and welcome decision to form -- 2164. this session is entitled the political cristobal, how appropriate given what is coming and just for the recording, need to say that today is tuesday, april 8. 930, and we are in human c13525235. thank you. checking me. i have the pleasure of moderating this panel. most of you know the drill for these panels. we will have each of our panelists give some comments, roughly ten minutes. and then i will give them an opportunity, if they wish, to comment on each others' comments to be an amateur when the question at the point as i am inviting you to come out to the microphones on either side of the dais. we will focus primarily on questions from the audience. as you know, we will give preference to students to be if i see students and line please don't feel offended difficult and not to come to the microphone. that is the focus of the conference. i want to start out this morning by reminding all of you to turn off your cell phone. in the of the electric -- electronic devices that you have a reader did this out of respect to our panel and each other so we don't have this in a storm off in the middle of our meeting on going to start out by introducing our four panelists in the order in which to speak. they have decided on this, so there is no significance to be read into the order in which they speak. our first speakers to my immediate left did he is well-known to many conference attendees for his involvement in public issues and political entities. he also is been a broadcaster and and of there. one of the things that you may not know about david is that his interest in politics goes way, way back. and in seventh grade he took a leave of absence to participate in bob kennedy, robert kennedy's presidential campaign. so -- [applause] >> it's called truancy is the word you're looking for. >> i was trying to be diplomatic year. leave of absence. second, mary is a seasoned political strategist and author who has focused her efforts on increasing the number of women in congress and state legislatures, especially california. you should know that from 1984 to 2008 and 99 bay area counties in california they sent six went to the house of representatives, to to the u.s. senate, and as many of us know, celebrant the selection of nancy pelosi of speaker of the house. [applause] mary had a hand in many of those campaigns, and she continues to be involved in working on and they're urging women to run and win. third, we have been no, again, and known face and voice to many in the bin attendees of the conference. he is a political consultant and campaign strategist. he has worked in many emerging countries in transition countries including eastern europe and the middle east. he also has worked on many political campaigns in the united states. he, too, has a long time interest in politics. when asked what got him into politics he said i was a somewhat nerdy kid, and i really loved politics. thank you, daniel, for that. >> i'm so glad you said that. >> i'm trying to sense of this. and last but not least the head and navarro, cnn contributor and pulled to fund strategists expertise on one american and hispanic issues. >> she's nervous. >> she served as national co-chair of john mccain's hispanic advisory council in 2008, as sort of several other national and state political campaigns as well as serving as ambassador to the u.n. human rights commission. you can see, we have a very knowledgeable and personal panel. [applause] david is going to kick this off. >> well, thank you very much for being here. i also want to think c-span for joining us today. nothing c-span is probably one of the rare things i can say that has been great about television and democracy. let's give a hand. [applause] television in the era of the 30-2 spot generally funded by independent expenditures, the undocumented money has not done democracy in favor. c-span since its inception has done something incredibly valuable which is to bring an unfiltered view of our governments, the people. that was the intention, and a lot of people were terrified of what it would do. to the station started every day, it may be boring to some but is in valuable and i encourage everyone to make sure that the local cable provider or however you did it includes c-span because it is important to all those. having said that many say that this morning's paper asked all of us on this panel to comment on what we saw in this political cristobal. and ' i gave is what i say to anyone who asks above forecasts in the political future. they usually will start off with polling data which says, if the election were held today. and i always think, this person has never worked in politics. the election has never held today in less your actually asking that question on the first tuesday after the first monday in november. we have early voting, so as to extend that to october, but surely it is impossible. ask some of the former president's like former president al gore will former president helicon who were farmers and two in one case actually won the popular vote and i would argue one the electoral college as well but did not get to serve. the conventional wisdom is never what actually winds up playing out. we are sitting here in 2014 and will have a discussion of properly about what will happen in his midterm elections in november, october and november of this year. still a lot of variables, things of a going to happen between now and then that we cannot forecast the people and tell you that they think they know what's going to happen in 2016 really are smoking something that is now legal here in colorado. i will say, there are some clues , there are some clues, and we have what are now and going to be officially dubbed the sheldon adelson primary, and it was held a few weeks ago in las vegas. and you can tell by his chose to participate in a primary. these are people who went to a forum sponsored by the world's eight richest men whose principal interests are to, is real, and the prevention of internet gambling which will, of course, cut into the fact that he is the world's eight richest man largely based on casino gambling in las vegas and macau. so the people who went to los vegas to see sheldon adelson included a man you may have heard of, chris christie, the governor of new jersey. he has been out of the news a lot lately. i just wanted to monday that he is the governor of new jersey which includes part of the george washington bridge. only half of the george washington bridge, as my good friend points out, not the new york half. but a number of other people went to participate in the primary. they included scott walker, the governor of wisconsin. it did not go because they needed a trip to las vegas. and scott walker didn't explain what the hebrew pronunciation of his son's name is because he was uninterested in the support. that's what we call shameless pandering which is what was going on in las vegas. but they understood that this was, as was the case for years ago when people came to visit donald trump, that they needed -- they were seeking the republican nomination for president three years hence, that they needed his support. he almost single-handedly kept nuking riches candidacy alive long past its expiration date. through just continuing to infuse money, and he plainly intends to be a participant again. he is 80 years old and shows no signs of slowing up. the primary, to me, is some part of what we might call the political cristobal. tea leaves to read. the most interesting part of that -- and don will look to our colleagues on the panel today have worked for former florida governor jim bush, the fact it jeb bush went and participated. and i think that's a very, very interesting indicator. as a lifelong democrat i will tell you that the person and i believe has the strongest possibility to both when the nomination and be elected president in 2016 is jim bush. it's not an endorsement. it is an assessment. and if i can ruin his chances, then i have more power than i think a half. i will tell you and out of respect i do believe he brings the strongest credentials in he would give it great gravitons. whether or not he wants to run, the person we should ask is his mother. we've had too many already. i will tell you, i think the fact that you went to las vegas shows that he is of these looking at it. don't think anyone, including hillary clinton has made up their mind as yet. maybe a few. maybe rick santorum as woodies doing again in 2016, but most people really are looking into it, trying to get the lay of the land and figured out. it is interesting to me and former governor bush was present , has made some are in a state trips. again, if you want to follow this, follow the money. as he finish the set in after rising, follow the money to see where the early donors are going, see if anyone is locked up for a particular presidential candidate, and follow the travel ask the people of ireland, new hampshire, and south carolina who they are mentally. and that will give you some idea of how the 2016 feel the shaping of, at least in the minds of the people who think they are credible candidates. it does not mean there will be. it means they tested the waters. and as my colleague pointed out, if you were doing this same exercise early on when then former mayor rudy guiliani was considered a front runner for the republican nomination you would have thought based on press accounts he had a lot of. again, conventional wisdom does not exist in this process. we will prove that by sharing our unconventional wisdom to the . [applause] >> go ahead. >> wonderful to be with you. my crystal ball was a little bit more clear. on going to share six headlines. that said the mine also agree that -- we will see where it goes. the funny thing about predictions as you hope enough time is past that no one remembers. we will see. i am happy to tell you about these because as you might guess as we go along, perhaps we might want to see. the first is the northeast which met in new england, new hampshire, a sweep of women in all of its statewide offices last year. it will lead again the region, the renaissance of feeling of governors. for the last decade we have gone from 9 feet of governors to the current five. for republican women, that would be you hampshire. and there are three. pennsylvania, rhode island, and martha copley in massachusetts taking a second run and it. i think there will wall runs strong. i think the we will increase the number of women governors significantly which will be a major story in the 14 midterm election. dynasties will be much in your headlines over the next year, and then perhaps for four years. but you're going to watch michele nine in georgia in what is emerging as a very interesting race where she has a clear field against can and relief field of republicans who are competing for the nomination her father, you will remember, for 24 years in the house with distinction, an expert on the armed services committee. that i would keep my hair. you will know him well, and that some of the one. people will be watching closely. been prior in arkansas, and i think that this is important for reasons that have been alluded to. i don't know how much tolerance we have to invest in families. and it's hard to know whether the values that we come to know about them are so clear to us than we have confidence and trust or whether we are a lazy electorate and it's just easier to go with the brand you know, but i think this election cycle and the next one will put us to the test, whether we are ready for a generational change, a shift in perception, but some different approach to how we evaluate the generations that, after. and that the court going to have an opportunity to do that. i alluded to new hampshire where we all know all politics in america is rooted. there's another context there. you may have noticed that in the last 48 hours. scott brown has moved into new hampshire to run against gene machine. let me assure you, he will make sure work of that. [applause] i can imagine no voter in the country. you're going to come into our state, thomas is going to represent us, and i thought, really interesting, really interesting. i don't know what it is. so i feel like the one thing you want to watch about that move is who is behind it and for what reason related to the presidential election coming up. .. >> a sitting mayor running for reelection and have been in the last month in various facets of the country, prominently in my own, unfortunate scandals, and not really scandals, but just crime, people charged with crime. i know the mayor of charlotte was indicted. we have a state senator in san fransisco who was indicted following the indictment of two other state senators for unrelated crimes, and i do think that we are reaching a tipping point, again, where we ask ourselves what is it that allows for this to go on and on and on? what is the antedote? i can tell you, historically, the antedote has been elect women. in the 1990s in arizona when the state of arizona said, are you kidding me? they had a governor who i believe -- i think he was indicted -- and then women swept all the top offices in the arizona. we call that, in our work, the virtue advantage. i tell you, it pretty much, as women have become more and more prominent and leaders, that advantage, in many ways, has fallen away, but in some sense, for some voters, and voters are older, as you know, there is some vees taj of it. i say whether that election is the trend, it is not probably the beginning of a big trend, but i would ask you to watch how voters react in the next election to the issue of fast and loose. i think to my colleague's point, there is a great deal afoot with jeb bush, and i hope you will illuminate more on this point, but the one i'm interested in and really -- i hope herralds a good discussion for the country. i think immigration reform is something we should do for a host of reasons, including a compassionate one to keep families together, and i think republicans congressional candidates will be grateful to him over this next 12, 24, 36 months because the language that the debate devolved into is devicive, and no one can come off their position, and he came straight at it saying, we have to do this, we have to do is it better, there's great reasons to do it, and that gives everyone else cover to find the right place to them to talk about the issue in a constructive way, and that is terrific. we'll hope that makes the difference. what you don't want to see is a simple shuffling of the lingo so that we end up in a highly partisan place on the issue yet again with no progress. watch for progress, but a hopeful sign and a kris call ball. finally, i just want to say, i think the decision by the supreme court recently on campaign finance reform is unfortunate, albeit, consistent. if you agree with buckley that speech and money are the same, then this was a consistent decision, but those, the unintended consequences of that decision, we live with every day in the constant pourousness between policy and money. it's unhealthy. it's unwholesome, and it's choking our legislators in our congress. i would just say to you while i do not see in my crystal ball a short term solution for this, it is the one thing that will make a huge difference to the way we do public policy and probably have a big effect on all the other issues as mentioned, so i'll stop there. [applause] >> good morning, everybody. i had a crystal ball, and i was going to bring it with me this morning, but as i was looking at it this morning, i didn't see a reason to. i saw mary and barry and the governor of toronto smoking crack, and it really got all cloudy. [laughter] then it starts to dispate a little bit, and i saw a tweet from anthony weaner who wants the brie mare, deblasio, in new york, and i was afraid to read it. i'm going to abandon that. however, i want to approach this panel a little differently today. i know we have panelists here who will talk about the candidates and, you know, the play-by-play. i'm going to step back for a moment and talk about something that a i feel is going to affect this election, the one, the midterm election as well as the presidential, and it's going to affect our politics here in this country and abroad significantly. that issue is the fact that many americans today feel threatened. we feel threatened. our jobs are threatened, our standing in the world is threatened, and this is going to realign not just the electorate, but how politicians reagent to the electorate. you know, if you think about it, now, i actually workedded for doug hoffman when he ran, he was the first tea party candidate, and i started it cement early in the tea party, was in a sense a reaction to this. there is a fear among the electorate of where america's place is in the world today, and this is -- this is going to have very -- it's shifting the politics in this country, but i will also step back even further for just one moment. among western democracies in those countries that associate themselves with it, we're seeing this in those countries as well. you know, hungry just elected -- hungary elected a prime minister giving them a greater far right majority. we know what's going on in israel. we see this going on in france and germany, the netherlands, and we see these people feeling threatened. back to america. let's talk about how this is going to affect the politics, the politicians, and the policies that they're going to start promoting in elections. it has been, for example, we spoke about the tea party panel yesterday, and i don't know how many people were there for that, but you already see a lot of those push button issues that fermented that anger within the tea party were issues that are now co-oped by the establishment of the republican party, you know, fiscal responsibility, school choice, issues like that, but now we're going to see that, major parties, are going to adopt that, and so are the candidates. they are going to adapt a portion of that, and it's very understandable. people -- unemployment is still rather high. corporations are making a lot of money. they are more productive. they are being more productive with fewer people. they are not hiring the people from the recession. on the economics front, how our candidates are going to address the issues is going to have a major impact. you know, i'm glad you brought up immigration, mary. the immigration reform. this is why you have people like john mccain who in the very early stages were all for the dream act, for immigration, the establishment republican party in many senses was for it. then a shift changes, and i will say that this shift, you cannot only blame the tea party. there's many conservative democrats out there today who also feel this threatening -- this threat against their jobs and their well being, and so there is -- there is some cross party pollination, if i may, on that issue. even foreign policy, and i know it's not a big motivator in elections, but it's going to play a lot in the way the candidates coming forward are going to be handling our foreign policies. for example, how's everybody feel about drone policy? everybody happy with it? well, you know why that's kind of all you hear about in our fight against al-qaeda and many of the other terrorists? because on the domestic front, obama can do that on his own. to do a greater -- to have a greater impact in this fight to secure our country against terrorism, we would need to do the elements we did in the cold war using soft power, where our embassies were, around the world even in communism countries, were little springs of american authors, american music, american culture. none of that is around today in the countries we need it the most, and those are places where they don't like us. this has an impact in the sense that if you're -- let's say the arab world, the only thing they see now from america are drones. they don't see the writers. they don't see the progressives. they don't see the culture of women. they don't see our music as much. they don't see -- even though the internet is there, it's not coming through our official modes of communication. why is that? because domestically, it's becoming very difficult to fund those things. you don't see an immediate impact from these, and congress is going to have a difficult time with the mood of the electorat today with threatening sense that we have as americans to fund these things. you're going to send my money over there? so those countries can read about our authors when we need that money here? that's the sense we're having. this dynamic of the threatened american is playing into our elections very much, and it's going to affect the way the candidates move forward. this is not something that's going to be solved in an election, so in that sense, you know, i'm not a big proponent of another bush-clinton election, i have to be honest with you, but whoever the candidates are, these issues are going to live for a while in our nation. if they're not going to be solved quickly, those candidates that can navigate these waters are going to be the most successful. the ones that can give america a sense of confidence to move forward and a sense that it is not over. thank you. [applause] >> well, i think i'm on the far left in order here, but i think i might be on the far right when it comes to the panel. >> you're far right. [laughter] a few things that have not been mentioned, and i'll talk about things that have been mentionedded. we're in 2014, seems like 2015 because everybody's focused and interested and riveted by the presidential races already, who is in, who is out, who is reading tea leaves, and who is meeting with whom. i think 2014 is something to focus on, and that's going to have a lot of effect of what happens vis-a-vis 2016. 2014, most experts and people conclude the republicans will keep the house. i think that is true. the question, when it comes not house becomes what happens with john bane? if the republicans keep the house, who will be the next speaker? i think that's going to have a huge impact on legislative agenda. i think boehner has fight in him, and i happen to think he's going to stay again, but i think he genuinely does not know what he's yet going to do. also, we had an enormous amount of retirement, of some house veterans including committee chairs in the last couple months announced. we're going to have an entirely new makeup in many committees. we're going to see some pretty ferocious dog fights as to who are going to be the new chairs, the new ranking members in the house, and it's going to be a new world order in the house of representatives. we've got the u.s. senate. until a few months ago, the basic consensus was the democrats had a lead and were likely to keep it. that's become less of a prediction in the last several weeks. republicans have been able to feel some pretty good candidates this year, and people who can win, generals, there's a lot of red state democrats that are concerned, that are in races, that are running as far away as they possibly can from president obama, wont be seen in public with him, no matter what is offered, and so i think that is something that we're going to watch very closely, and it's going to tell us the effect of obamacare. i don't think it's going to be nearly as bad and all about ul obama care as my republican colleagues believe, but i also don't think it's the panacea, and the utopia that a lot of democrats want to paint it as, and we still have a lot of information and cross paths when it comes to obamacare to dissect. of the 7 million enrolled, how many have paid? how old are they? how many were already pre-insured? how many are new insured? there's a lot of things that need to be known before we know if this thing is going to work, how it's going to work, and then there's a host of exemptions and delays put in place that at some point are going to have to be addressed and resolved, obviously, it's going to happen after the elections, but at some point, that is going to have to be confronted. also, i think l the social issues are so very interesting as to how they are shaping up. there's several states, including my state of florida, that has legalized marijuana issue on ballot. what we see with the gay rights movement, there's probably -- there might be a majority of states that allow gay rights and gay marriage by the time 2016 rolls around, not because of the political front, but because of the judicial front. how much an issue that will be in 2016? i think the -- another very interesting aspect of 2014 is going to be the overall shape of the republican party. we saw in 2010, we saw in 2012, a lot of veteran mainstream republicans, frankly, get caught asleep at the wheel. i call it getting lugerred. they got richard luger. they never went to the home states, didn't have houses there, they didn't -- you know, they became washington commodities. they did not work that hard. they didn't raise the money. they didn't spend the time. they didn't spend the resources. they didn't shake the flesh. they didn't eat the rubber chicken. well, that's not happening this year. you got a lot of veteran mainstream republicans challenged in primaries, and they are winning. mike be beat liz cheney before the primary. mitch mcconnell, wily as he is, i predict he survives. i think lindsey grahm is going to do just fine. i think we're going to see a resurgence of folks of the mainstream republicans come back, fight hair, and shake up what the branding and definition of the republican party has been in the last couple years, and that, in turn, will have an effect in 2016. let me talk about the quote-on-quote, primary. you know, the reason -- there's something called the republican-jewish committee. it's been around since 1985. it is an important organization. it goes above an beyond. it discusses very important issues, and top republican lawmakers, candidates, have been showing up to the conferences for decades. , not to see or kiss the ring, but because it's an important issue, the same way that many, many republicans and democrats show up every year to the apac annual conference, and the same way that many democrats. it's named one very powerful, very wealthy billionaire jewish contributor, and i can tell you, everybody from president obama to president clip ton to secretary of state hillary clinton goes to the conferences. it really is, i think, demeaning to the rjc, a very well established and important organization to just claim it as a primary. that does not mean money is not important. it does not mean that it is not important. it doesn't mean that george sorros is not important. it does not mean the checkbook is not important. it also let us remember that this is an entire organization that has composed and will exist before and after sheldon-adelson. on jeb bush -- you all want to know about -- he's a long time friend of mine, he's also my tenant. i saw him yesterday. in fact, at lunch. >> do you live in new hampshire, by any chance? [laughter] >> no, he doesn't, but in coral gables, florida, and, you know, i suspected that's part of what shapes his immigration views. the fact it's an immigrant community, and a lot of times the immigration debate can be about faceless government statistics, how many people cross a border, how many depore tees, how many children of undocumented are born here. can be all about faceless numbers, but when you live in an imgrant community, speak spanish fluently, frankly, watch spanish tv, you know these story, and you know there's people, mothers, who -- women who get raped by human smugglers, when they are crossing the border, and risk their lives swims across the river and taking a raft to the united states. a lot of times leave children behind that they may not see for a decade, and it's in the hope they can come here and find work and help support families and loved ones they left behind. have they broken the law? yes, absolutely. is it an act of love? i tell you, it's hard to argue. when i tell you the circumstances, it's not an act of love for those families. i think where he is, where he lives, the stories he knows shapes some of that perception. i don't think you have to read many tea leaves when it comes to jeb because i know it's surprising, and -- but, you know, he pretty much told us what he's thinking and where his head is, and he's a very disciplined guy, and i think he's going to stick to his timeline, even in the internal making progress. he said what his criteria is, needs to be okay with his family, and by that, i don't think it means mama bush as much as it means -- the woman he's been married to for 40 years now, and his children, what effect that's going to have on them. running for president today means doing it as a family. it's not just one person, but affects the entire family's life, the entire family's privacy. he said he wants to be able to do a joyfully. he wants to be able to offer a positive vision. he wants to be able to offer solutions. he has said he's going to sit down, think about it over the summer, think about it later this year, and make a decision. the guy, i know him. he means what he says, and he says what he means. i don't think he's doing this, you know, we've gotten accustomed in politics to the art of the political piece. people who are trying to promote the sale of a book or maybe trying to get a gig on cable news, which is not a bad gig -- [laughter] you know? get themselves on "dancing with the stars," who knows. [laughter] you know, trying to find themselves some relevancy. frankly, i don't think jeb bush needs that or that it's about that for him. he's a very serious guy who is doing very well business-wise. he's get a fulfilled life, and so i think it is about that vocation to service, and is it the right thing for the family and for the country? we'll know. you know, i've -- i get calls about this all the time from reporters, from donors, from everybody, and, in fact, my least favorite calls are the ones that ask me what happens if marco rubio and jeb bush run? they are both friends of mine. in that point, i go in a fetal position and just cry. [laughter] after hyperventlating and having an anxiety about the bush and rubio questions for a while, i decided there's not a thing i can do about it m i think the decision comes from within them. i don't think it's about who else is running. for the meantime, i'm going to be in colorado talking to all of you at some appointment next year, and they are going to tell me what the hell they are going to do, and i'm going to serve myself some scotch, and we're going to go from there. [laughter] [applause] >> okay, i'm going to give -- >> specifically, enough, the person -- this is the last point, the performance not mentioned in terms of political crystal ball, really, is hillary clinton. i think everybody assumes that she will run and she has frozen the field, and i think, if anything, there's more pressure on her to announce a decision quickly because she is the -- well, i'll say, she's the donkey in the room because i don't want to call her the elephant in the room because she's a democrat -- [laughter] but she has the entire democratic field frozen, and so i suspect we'll hear from hillary clinton shortly after the 2014 elections. if she's not running and everybody else gives it -- a lot of other people, you know, give it as a fact, given fact that she's going to run, i'm not sure she does have a book to sell. presidential speculation, boy, it's good for business. the three clintons are making ten events appearances in the next four days in eight states. folks that ain't for free. [laughter] i'm telling you, presidential speculation has been very good. i don't -- you know, they don't need the money, but i know and i like bill clinton very much, and i can tell you clinton's never met a dollar they haven't liked. [laughter] more power to them. as a republican -- >> thank you. i hate to cut in, but i want an opportunity for other panelists to comment on the comments of their fellow panelists, and i also would invite people interested in asking questions to come up to the two microphones, and as soon as we hear anything here, i'll open the field for questions. >> can i clap for her? >> of course you can clap for her, of course. [applause] >> we did, actually, and this is actually her second round. well deserved. i agree with ana that the most important thing is bourbon or scotch did you say? it's here. i started already. [laughter] that's the only way to get through this. there are a couple of things that i -- with all respect, i can't leave unresponded. first off, i want to surprise some people and say i agree completely with ana on obamacare. i don't think that it is -- or what i call the affordable care act, painted as obamacare in order to demonize it. you don't hear social security called radio vet security. this was done deliberately, and, again, as an is the case, right wing succeeded in branded something to demonize it before it went into effect. all right. having said that, i agree, i don't think it's going to play out as the inevitable negative that a lot of the independent expenditures paint it already, and in many of the competitive races, i will say, though, that i think we're going to continue to see this as one of the issues that some democrats shamefully, shamefully run from, when, in fact, if they stood up and said proudly, yes, i cast that vote. people more than anything else since hypocrisy, coward, and when democrats who have cast a vote, saw this in iraq when they back pedaled on that, that's really where the voters say, i don't care the position, i just want you to stand up for what you believe in, even if i disagree with you, and that's what we're going to see in you, who you are and whether you are willing to own your position. i also have to respectfully disagree with ana on how to characterize the jewish-republican event. if sheldon-adelson was not the centerpiece of that, the people wouldn't show up, and the numbers of people would not have gotten the attention they got. that's a fact. >> it's ana newel event. i was at it in 2008. >> i know that, as a matter of fact, as a jewish-democrat. let me just say the difference here is the people who came came with an agenda. it is not a pact. they came with an agenda to be noticed by one particular individual, and they achieved that. >> it's really funny to me me that the largest democratic donor, has a middle east conference, named with the seban middle east center. >> he has power rangers too. give him that. >> power rangers and univision, a lot of money, and, you know, when he has a conference and people like president obama, hillary clinton, and clintons show up, that's about politics. when the republican-jewish committee has a conference, that's about money. all right. >> how much money does he give? it's all about money. how much money, ana, does he give? >> he's been -- he gives many millions of dollars. >> does it ever go into the tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars? >> it probably is in the tens of millions of dollars. >> lifetime? not in a cycle, though. no one compared to sheldon-adelson. >> he had no one to give to last time. he's a hillary clinton person, not a president obama person. >> this could go on for a long time, and i want the other panels a chance to comment. [laughter] >> they turned their microphones off. >> well, turn them back on.

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