Transcripts For CSPAN2 K Hearing On Future Of Spectrum 20220907

Policy advocates, industry stakeholders and government officials testify in front of Senate Commerce subcommittee about the future of commercial spectrum for broadband in telecommunications. This hearing is just over 2 and half hours. [inaudible conversations] the hearing on subcommittee and munication scum media and broadband will now come to order. Today the subcommittee is convening a hearing on the future of spectrum. I want to thank Ranking Member thune and roger wicker for working to get this scheduled and to be here for this important hearing and also to chair cantwell for what she has done in this space, her staff and the staff of the full committee. The importance of this conversation, and coming together spectrum policy could not be more immediate with an upcoming deadline that must be met. Spectrum is a limited Natural Resource and the challenges are many. We have spectrum challenges across the industry, government, technology, policy, and politics. When we dont find solutions, those challenges can become a National Crisis and i hope the last two words get the attention of those that have not yet or dont see the reauthorization in that way. Licensed and unlicensed spectrum underlay is the Broadband Network that enables us to communicate with friends, family, work from our homes, utilize telehealth but that are also used for National Security purposes. It depends greatly on how these resources are managed and how they can coordinate to make better use of them. Spectrum helps us respond to floods, wildfires and other natural disasters and to explore the origins of the universe. This hearing will consider the many challenges we face as we manage the potential and limited resource. There are many things to consider including commercial challenges in identifying privately licensed spectrum to ensure the supply meets the demand, bureaucratic challenges between federal agencies each with critical missions, negotiating how to best use the spectrum in technical and engineering challenges, solutions which might enable more spectrum and require closer coordination. We have policy challenges come many uses of spectrum do not have a clear market value nor should they. It is impossible to put a price on National Security, Public Safety or promoting innovation through unlicensed spectrum or scientific research. We have political challenges, spectrum is one of the few policy areas, with revenue. 230 billion for the federal government. We have important decisions not just on spectrum policy, but revenue might open doors and support other critical priorities in the United States. And the federal Communications Commission to spectrum options, to expire september 30th. It depends on the decisions we make in this committee and conversation we have. Congress must act to ensure it meets the Public Interest. I apologize here, spectrum revenues devoted to updating the 9 11 system and promote Digital Equity, and during the see band and more to ensure allocating spectrum, innovative auctions, structures, demonstrated spectrum policy, to meet rural areas. It allows tribes and pueblos for sovereignty on the airways over tribal lands. Last week the house cleared us, the bipartisan bill extending fcc spectrum option authority. The bill also restored in cia as the lead agency for spectrum decisions by including spectrum innovation act which i introduce with Ranking Member thune in the senate. I support the progress in the house, yesterday a day before this hearing, rosa marshall, signed an updated memorandum of understanding, agencies resolve spectrum challenges. This reaffirms the role as sole agency in charge of managing spectrum resources which increases many of the challenges for managing broadband, that have significant federal agency stakeholder. It includes better coordination with evidencebased policy, something we need more often congress. Ranking member thune and i structured toward the goal, theres a broad interest for colleagues across the senate and many who have been working on this issue during their time in the United States. This brings together experts in the field of Spectrum Management, many years of experiencing managing these resources directly and the broader debate on a national scale. With that, i want to introduce our witnesses, i want to thank mister wicker, Ranking Member of the full committee, the Ranking Member, the republican whip for mr. Thune. Yes we do expect senator thune to be here soon. It convened to discuss spectrum policy. Thank you for holding this important hearing is welcome the distinguished panel. This conversation is timely as the chair noted with the statutory options. Spectrum is in the modern wireless economy. Tell me how unleashing spectrum, with cutting edge technologies. It grows almost exponentially and growing demand from federal agencies, resources scarce and effective Spectrum Management has become essential. They are out locating frequencies, not only do options provide a market mechanism. With sufficient revenues as the distinguished chair stated, the advent of spectrum options, 230 billion has been collected and used including funding, and reducing the federal deficit. The Statutory Authority to conduct options is set to expire september 30th. If we do not act swiftly the Agency Removes its ability through that. This is especially important for the recent start at 2. 5 gigahertz. That is ongoing when the authority expires. To finish the proceeding. Not sure if spectrum options have been so successful, bitter certainty. And the timeframe of the agency. That reduces the certainty, with spectrum. The legal authority, to complete the option, we expect bidding to be effective. I want to ensure there is no lapse in authority. A shortterm extension of options would allow the Committee Working with stakeholders to identify specific fans. This approach of legislating particular frequencies that proved successful in recent years and give all parties to plan ahead. It would allow time to draft that carefully without any unnecessary obstruction of the fccs duty. As well as timelines and other considerations, would create that success and given the very short time for exploration of option authority. Beyond the extension of option authority we should look to the Management Agency for guidance as the nation continues in the race to 5g and beyond. The fcc and telecommute occasions Information Administration worked with their respective stakeholders and for commercial use while making the needs for federal agencies and although our federal agencies, important spectrum interest these decisions should be made, expert agencies passed by the statute. With Service Rules to weaken that. These concerns should be handled through existing processes using Technical Analysis and data. It is complex. Congress has a role. I would urge my colleagues to support shortterm extension of options authority. To continue its important work while we work with stakeholders to develop more comprehensive legislation laying out longterm pipeline of frequencies. I would hope to work on legislative efforts to improve the coordination between federal agencies and the fcc to ensure theres an open and effective communication. I yield back to you. Ranking member of the committee, thank you for your thoughtfulness and policy approaches in this arena. Thank you, chairman, for holding a timely hearing. 22 legislative calendar days, conduct spectrum option expires. The last time this Committee Held this hearing is in july of 2,020 with chairman of the subcommittee. Disappointed lack of progress on this issue, it is the lifeblood, wireless communications, next Generation Networks require efficient and effective use of mid, low and high band spectrum. In the global race we deploy these Services Proper management of the slitted resource that has never been more important. Particularly important for more rural parts of the country. If an inadequacy of spectrum resources makes it less viable, the rural areas where it no longer makes sense to employ teleCommunication Services. Last week the fcc took the step of bringing 5g services to more tribal areas by beginning the option of 21 2 ghz. It is my view in congress to provide a shortterm extension of the Fcc Auction Authority so we can assure the option continues without any delays. It is equally important for congress to build on the success of the mobile now act and beat china for 5g act by developing legislation. One such place to start is legislation we introduced earlier this year. Spectrum innovation act, the lower 3 ghz band, allow mobile services. By enacting a pipeline bill congress provides regulatory certainty and predict ability and when the spectrum is made available it is essential there are clear rules to recognize rights with respect to users. It is important to know spectrum pipeline bill takes time. It will require Government Agencies, industry and others for these resources, by doing so we make spectrum decisions in the interest of economic and National Security. Having led the efforts of the mobile now act i know the complexity of this issue and the time it takes to work with spectrum legislation. It involved general Auction Authority, last time there was the general Auction Authority was back in 2,012. At that Time Congress provided specific direction on bands that should be considered for auction but also took years to get thorough. Some spectrum bands were identified in the National Broadband plan two years earlier, some multiple congressional hearings in the years leading to its passage and some included studies reports by an tia and the fcc office of Engineering Technology in years before, we extended Auction Authority. It is my hope this Committee Work together in a bipartisan manner to develop a larger spectrum package. Sound Spectrum Management requires coordination between f tia, the fcc and other agencies. I was pleased to see the fcc and an tia reach an agreement on the coordination process. It is important this is done regularly i encourage the committee to advance the improving spectrum Coordination Act which is legislation i sponsored with Ranking Member wicker and senators lujan and blackburn. As more americans rely on connectivity like wifi, we must recognize the Critical Role unlicensed spectrum plays in the landscape. Unlicensed spectrum is responsible for transmitting significant data in the networks that play a role in the development of the internet of things. Finally as we work towards freeing additional licensed and unlicensed spectrum we must take action to remove barriers to largescale 5g deployment like streamline act for example expedite deployment of a small sills needed for 5g installation while respecting the role of state and local governments in making deployment decisions. Importantly, would make it more affordable to bring 5g to were areas by addressing the cost. I look forward to discussing these issues with the panel and appreciate all of you. Appreciate your work on this issue as well not just on this but previous years as well. Next i want to introduce our witnesses and we will hear from them. First we want to welcome mr. Christopher lewis, the ceo and president of Public Knowledge meaning one of the predominant organizations Intel Communications and former staffer at the fcc in the United States senate. The honorable meredith baker, ceo and president of cta, Wireless Association representing the users of public spectrum and former commission at the fcc and appointee at the end tia and next, andrew von ah, director of physical infrastructure, government comes billy office with years of experience evaluating Spectrum Management at the fcc and in tia, welcome and we will hear from the fourth with us today, doctor coleman bazelon, who is printable at the battle group with expert knowledge of wireless license options, Spectrum Management, competition policy, and formerly an analyst and cbo, the importance of all of us to get to know spectrum policy better so i appreciate your reminder and appreciate your testimony here as well. The floor is yours for 5 minutes. Thank you for having me here. In the brief time i have i would like to summarize four guideposts for National Policy strategy driving innovation and promoting quality access to communications for all. First guidepost is that we should center publicinterest objectives set by congress in national strategy, telecommunication backed congress directed the fcc to design spectrum options to protect Public Interest and filled the goals of its foundational purpose to make robust Communication Services available for all americans. This included eroding competition, economic opportunity, preventing excessive consolidations, providing opportunities for Small Businesses especially minority and women owned businesses ensuring limited Spectrum Airways to effectively serve the public medication needs. We need congress, the fcc and an tia to think about how to advance all of these things. For example rural and tribal areas can benefit from small creative policies. Last month the Ranking Member mentioned the fcc spectrum licensing rules to increase access for small carriers. Congress could further close the access gap in tribal areas where the need is greatest, directed to the fcc to mandate expanded use and the use of cbr, and systems for tribal lands. We have the midst of a connectivity revolution, average number of connected devices for home, has risen from 11 in 2019 to 25 in 2021. Smart tvs, doorbells, and unlicensed spectrum. This offloads their data uncongested airways and unlicensed spectrum innovation and synonymous with at home projects. The demand on unlicensed spectrum underscores how critical using a mix of access regimes is to meet National Connectivity demands. There are very few spectrum opportunities remaining. The stakeholder must work, the success of cbr s demonstrates as long as we follow the engineering facts and data where it leads, future spectrum plans can create more opportunity for competition to a balanced, shared license application. Number 3, we should commit to a longterm spectrum plan. Thanks to the bipartisan efforts of congress, the Trump Administration and the Biden Administration wireless providers have access to spectrum to deploy stateoftheart project systems. Is already looking to 60 and wifi seven, standard for these systems are still years away. Or 5g race with china now relies on carriers spending money to deploy networks, not on new spec now is time to step back and carefully planned for the future. Future. An 18 month extension of Auction Authority will not allow the fcc and ntia to do that careful planning. A longterm commitment by signaling that the sec will have future options will give agencies and private stakeholders the knowledgege to develop thoughtful planned for the future spectrum commercialization to congress could direct the ntia to issue a report that identifies potential bands and how they may be structured for commercial use seeking to find the rightth balance between balance and unlicensed. Number four, we must prioritize Public Interest needs when spinning public revenue for auctions. The reality is there are several National Priorities and Communications Policies ofna private investment other or wont p fund. Digital equity programs help knock down barriers to Broadband Adoption help community is make greater use other connectivity. Congress provide some funding for these efforts in the broadband infrastructure package. The bipartisan infrastructure package but a more sustainable source of funding isee needed. I would acknowledge support the air was for Equity Initiative which proposes setting aside efforts. Completing next g911 finishing theus work of rip and replace ad other support as Public Interest funding needs and it should be public funding industries. The bottom line is that the Public Interest objectives can and should bed earmarked to be paid first from revenue auctions using the public dollars to promote the health of the sector and help connect all americans to critical telecommunications services. Thank you and i look forward to your questions. Our friendd and commissioner, ms. Baker. That afternoon a thank you, chairman lujan, Ranking Member wickerer and Ranking Member wicker. Thanks to all of you for picking my favorite topic spectrum. I applaud your leadership from mobile nowva to the spectral innovation act. We lead the world in wireless thanks to you. We need this committees leadership now more than ever. We had the opportunity to drive nextgeneration leadership in 5g in the industries of the future with a National Commitment toit spectrum policy built on greater license may ban access. Ill start withne the good news. I testified before this committee in 2019 about what 5g could be. Im happy to be back today to talk about what 5g is most importantly, 5g is here. 5g is being deployed across our country almost twice as fast as 4g. Every year we invest 30 billion into our nations infrastructure. Thanks to that investment, 5g will drive 1. 5 trillion more into our economy in over 4 million new jobs. 5g 5g will be the platform for tomorrows innovation. We found 5g will have the impact of removing 72 million cars from the road. Gm is using 5g to reimagining manufacturing. The v. A. Is utilizing 5g to better care for our veterans. 5g is also about greater competition. The Fastest Growing Home Broadband company is a wireless provider and 5g home will be key in closing the Digital Divide. We also know that the job is not complete. 5g goes further and faster every day. We need to keep building in new mexico, south dakota, and across the nation. This is about opportunity and equity. To do all of this we need your help, and we need more spectrum. Three item stand out in my mind. Number one, spectrum auctions fuel all of this. In the last three years alone we have invested over 115 billion in new mid band spectrum. Challenge is fcc Statutory Authority to conduct auctions expires in 22 legislative days. We need to provide the fcc the authority to hold future spectrum auctions. The lessons of your prior extension strongly favor an approach that preserves your key congressional role in spectrum policy by packaging authority with designated future auctions. The last extension explicitly directed the fcc to hold three separate auctions. That is why we endorsed the house bipartisan approach to extend fcc authority for 18 months to give all stakeholders the time to contribute towards a new spectrum pipeline. And that pipeline is number two. The 2. 5 gigahertz auction happening right now is the last the fine auction. Coverage is bear in this committee is uniquely situated to address the shortfall and to find the net after next set of auctions. I believe we all have the same objective, a balanced approach that enables Government Agencies to meet their missions while expanding commercial access. Today, we are out of balance in the mid band. Roughly twothirds is held by the government. Maximizing the amount of commercial access in the three gigahertz, four gigahertz and seven gigahertz bands should be our immediate focus. We strongly support chair lujan and Ranking Member pallone act that would immediately address access in the lower three gigahertz. Importantly, by dint fight specific auctions this committee would also then have the opportunity to find key priorities from ng 911 to rip and replace. Number three, goes to an Agency Coordination. We need to empower the fcc and the ntia to adjudicate spectrum matters. We have strong leaders in place with chairwoman rosenworcel and administrator davidson and i applaud their work to enhance coordination and improve Spectrum Management. I thank you all for holding the steering and focusing on the critical spectrum issues that can create real opportunities for all americans. I also urge of committee to engage on the proposed corporate minimum taxes affect on spectrum. Spectrum. This would be a 15 tax on Spectrum Holdings that could undermine all of our work that were doing on spectrum policy. Spectrum should really be treated no different than any other asset in our nations infrastructure. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next were going to hear from the honorable mr. Von ah. Chairman lujan, Ranking Member thune and Ranking Member wicked, members of the subcommittee on police of your today as your example agencies management of spectrum and consider reauthorizing fcc spectrum auction of authority. Regulating the meshing the diversity of the spectrum is responsibility shared by both fcc which does so for commercial and nonfederal uses and ntia which manages federal use. Legislation introduced to reauthorizing Fcc Auction Authority seeks to make 200 megahertz spectrum currently used by federal agencies and others available for 5g mobile communications. As with past reallocations a key role for ntia is to work with federal agencies to examine the suitability of spectrum bands to be reallocated from federal used to nonfederal use such as 5g. As part of its reallocation efforts ntia coordinates with fcc and effective federal agencies examined the potential impact of proposed reallocation. Any reallocation may require existing user to enter modified the spec amuse, update or modify existing equipment, bothod are Effective Services to the bands or accommodate sharing of the spectrum. Fcc and ntia have successfully reallocated auctions hundreds of megahertz of spectrum across several bands. Some of these are highly complex and can last for many years. For example, the recent reallocation in the 3. 5 gigahertz bands took ten years to complete. Others can be contentious as it may affect several agencies operations or affect critical safety systems. N our recent reports of Spectrum Management activities. One looks at an tia process to which the agency develops a planning process. Another looked at federal agencies Coordination Activities, specifically the extent to which an cia, ftc and others followed practices in collaborating other spectrum interference issues. With respect to the reallocation process at the time of our review, we found the end tia did not have plans of reallocation efforts from start to finish. We identified two leading practices that can fit the end tias efforts. Including having a Program Management in place that is updated regularly, a massive schedule updated annually. Absent of these practices, we found that Agency Stakeholders may not be sure they are anticipating and preparing for the many steps involved and their bases to judge whether work can be performed faster, may not be able to read on effectively. Further, while the end cia is required to ensure branch views are effectively permitted, the fcc, we saw the ntia lacks agency to do so. Documented procedures can provide clarity on several points, such as a level of technical detail they should be permitting to the ncia. We found the mechanism used by the agencies did not always fully reflect leading collaboration practices. Two key documents, the mla between the ftc and in cia cash ncia ncia, had no defined and agreed upon process. The fcc and ntia have announced an iou between the agencies to address this issue and have begun meeting. We also found the agency mechanisms lacked agreedupon procedures to conduct feasibility and potential interference studies. Recent reallocation efforts related to 5g, such as seed band and the 24 gigahertz band which involves nasa and the functioning of weather satellites which have been hampered by a lack of weather agencies that would cause harmful interference to users in adjacent vans. We have made a number of recommendations to the fcc and ntia outlined in the two reports. The agencies are agreed to work collaboratively and have begun to implement our recommendation, as evidenced by the mou released today which we believe will help create a framework or disagreements regarding the reallocation of spectrum can be resolved based on the technical findings. This concludes my prepared remarks and im happy to answer any questions. Next, we will hear from our fourth witness today. Five minutes for your remarks. Thank you. I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to testify today. Radio spectrum is a scarce Natural Resource, owned by all of us, and one way or another used by all of us. It is only by using spectrum that we create value from it. Smartphones using unlicensed spectrum and the many Public Missions carried out on create incredible value from the scarce public resource. All these valuable uses compete for access to the sixth pool of managed by the fcc and ntia. The agencys goals of managing spectrum is all about making sure we get the most out of using it. They challenge all incumbent users with just somebody losing when spectrum is reallocated. Over time, the reallocations have been done so changing spectrum will become harder. The days of megaauctions of unencumbered bands are numbered with decreasingly few opportunities on the horizon. New tools such as incentive auctions and innovative sharing machines will be increasingly important in meeting spectrum needs. When should spectrum be moved to a new use . As i previously testified to congress, the principal spectrum of reallocation says a band of spectrum to be made available for new uses when the value in the new exceeds the cost of making spectrum available. This guidance and the cost and benefit it focuses on are not intended to evaluate just economic market values. Unlicensed uses of spectrum create value to society but in a way that does not create fit for spectrum. Since governmental users uses are difficult to value, the goal for them is to make sure that you spectrum efficiently. Consequently, a broad spread of information should inform spectrum policy. Numerals can influence spectrum policy and we are reminded of this every time spectrum is renewed. Spectrum options have been an important tool in getting spectrum from lower value to higher value uses. The options only took place because legislation authorized them. The budgetary value of spectrum is a focus of most spectrum legislation. I had some experience scoring auctions. This started my professional career in the mid90s. The cbs scores not an estimate of how much spectrum is worse worth or how much is spectrum reallocation will benefit society but an estimate of the net effect of proposed option on the federal budget. The key with budget scoring is legislation with the budgetary impact that the legislation causes. That is when it changes from current law. Although budget scoring will create incentive for legislation to facilitate reallocation that might not otherwise happen. Budget roles will never be a guide to good spectrum policy budget rules will never stop Spectrum Management. User reallocations have already been done and the demand for spectrum continue to grow, then what will Spectrum Management in the next decade look like . The goal is to continue to facilitate that from use from low use to higher use will not change but the tools will. And evidently, with a cost of additional bands to reallocate options and growing, the net budgetary incentive to legislate these options is expected to become smaller over time. Making existing bands available for new uses without having to clear all existing uses first which is finding ways to share and may avoid the largest of the clearing costs. If new approaches of the sharing can preserve a significant portion of the value of users, and the net benefit can remain relatively high. Some of these approaches may lead to no option with a budgetary incentive preserved while others may not. So long as new Creative Solutions continue, the more efficient use of we all benefit. This feature of more creative ways to maximize the value we brought from the spectrum resources is one of degree. That is the choice for policymakers is not whether or not we continue to strive to you spectrum more efficiently but the marking social pressures require we do so, but rather the degree to if it will happen. The legislature and executive will promote to do longterm planning needed to more efficiently exploit the benefits of radio spectrum for society. In this future, a more efficient use of spectrum costs. In a less supportive and cooperative environment, the future will still see gross and wireless based services but not as much and for a higher costs. I do have tattoos for everybody. [laughter] thank you, doctor. I appreciate that. I will sponsor any permanent. I want to thank each of the witnesses for being available today and for offering their important perspective. All agree that developing good spectrum policy directly informs everything from how we innovate and compete globally, to how we access public services, to making broadband accessible and affordable in places like new mexico and across the country. If we are serious about closing the Digital Divide, developing the good policy here must be top priority. It is especially important for new mexico. Any of my constituents rely on Wireless Technology to connect to broadband at home, for businesses, and to access critical services. We must ensure this resource is used to its fullest potential to help families in states like mine. My first question, mr. Lewis, the fccs ability to conduct Spectrum Office is set to expire in september. When we extend the authority, Congress Must ensure the commission can plan its future state of auctions and start the complex negotiations with the incumbent spectrum users immediately. Kicking the can down down the road benefits no one. Mr. Lewis, yes or no, does a longerterm extension of fcc spectrum Auction Authority shrinking the fcc and ntias ability to make all americans have connection to highspeed, reliable and Affordable Services . Can you please explain how a longer reauthorization but accelerate our mission to connect 100 of americans to highspeed, reliable, and affordable broadband yet a longer authorization sets up these agencies to do the tough work of analyzing what bands and with what guidelines do the bands can be rolled out. It is really important because we have moved into a space where there simply are a lot not a lot of opportunities to get spectrum. We have to be efficient. We have to be creative and we need to look at options like sharing. That takes careful planning by the two agencies so all the stakeholders are taking into account when we think about what spectrum bands can be used for, what they are used best for, and how those might be structured. I appreciate that. Misses baker, one of the most important tasks facing the fcc and ntia is the development of national Spectrum Management. The last two years have shown us the tremendous cost when conflicting interests in spectrum are not resolved swiftly. When Critical Infrastructure is delayed because of coordination between federal agencies, it is the people who rely on the infrastructure that suffered. Mrs. Baker, do you recommend congress to increase theological expertise at both agencies so they can more efficiently address congress when they arise . Id. I think you have two great leaders. I think enabling them to have more experts and to show the expertise and show that Congress Actually wants them to be the final arbiter in spectrum disputes would go a long way. I appreciate that. I agree that we must ensure federal agencies have the capacity to do their jobs. Both the American Public and commercial interests demand repertory consistency and diet regulatory consistency and i look forward to working with our colleagues on this important resource. Today, the fcc and ntia well on monday, they announced an updated rules on these goals. The agreement also increases coordination and addresses many of the challenges for managing that and have a significant federal agency equity. Yes or no, does the current statute clearly identify the fcc and ntia as leaders in managing National Spectrum use . Yes it does. I would like to submit for the record the reports that you highlighted, that indicate the improvements that must be made of the fcc and ntia, if given the opportunity, i want to explode explore those more later. For that i will turn this over thank you for that mr. Baker. What is the impact if Auction Authority lapses and would it have an adverse impact on our ability to lead any lead in the deployment of next and a ration Communication Services . It would be a shame to see the authority lapses. That would be the worst case scenario. I fear the impact would signal that we are not committed to removing or even moving away from the structure that has allowed us to create greater competition and greater diverse uses of spectrum. That would be a shame. It is also why i am advocating for a longer authority to signal that we want to do this in the future with the right studies and the right data. I appreciate the question. It would cause uncertainty. We do not know about licenses. We do not know about auctions. If they are not able to hold auctions, we will not be able to continue to build that 5g which has any effect on our Global Competitiveness. We all want a strong and powerful fcc. It is why we have an 18th month extension. Very quickly, i mention this in my home state but it believe it is equal i believe it is equal to get our wireless ecosystem yield which is why i support the shortterm extension as well while we are working on the longerterm pipeline build bill. I prefer a longterm extension, even a permanent authorization. I think we all do but that may not be an option. Mrs. Baker, can you talk about the regulatory provided to congress in the fcc direction on particular spectrum bands similar to what we did under the 2012 spectrum acts . Are there any other benefits to congress mandating what spectrum bands are auctioned . Thank you for the question. I think we all want a longerTerm Authority for the fcc but it is important that bands are tied to the upcoming authority. The reason is because we needed the Spectrum Authority in 2012, you tied three bands to it. Bands got done. The next bands are going to be more complex and hard. We have targeted the lower three as you have maybe spectrum innovation act. That is our local our number one goal. It targets banded jason is and will allow wider channels. We would like to see the four gigahertz and seven gigahertz added as well. They are all government bands. The government has two thirds of the prime band spectrum. Many governmental agencies wake up and say im going to repurpose my spectrum for commercial access. I think it is important for congress to mandate the options to make sure we motivate and can keep up with the rest of the world. I also think side benefits, as you specified in the other option, half the proceeds found first. Congress can specify priority. In the last two years, we have had 100 billion spectrum options and none of those have gone to congressional priorities rated i feel pretty strongly that a longterm effect of authority is good but used to be tied to specific bands. Could you quickly, its because there is a up here by the democrats which could be vote a proposal up here by the democrats which could be voted on earlier this week. I know the way spectrum is treated out of the tax which allows it to be that he has over the last. Ebay desilets period of years. Thank you for the question. It is a big deal for our industry. It is currently structured so tax provisions underline everything we are talking about. We are building out 53 twice as fast as we build out 4g and that is to the tune of 60 billion on infrastructure in the last two years. A 15 tax on the 200 billion in Spectrum Investments will absolutely, when it is retroactive and a surprise, so our build out. It will slow our closing of the Digital Divide. It will impact our Global Competitiveness and certainly our spectrum pipeline. Congress has decided that broadband is an important infrastructure and put this in the infrastructure bill funding. I think we would very much like to see a correction would treat spectrum the same as any other infrastructure outfit. Presumably, and i think with the tax codes and the 2017 act was passed, it was passed with an idea in mind to encourage companies to invest in building out new technologies. This is as it been suggested closing a loophole. This was a specific design when Congress Passed the tax bill. Could you speak very quickly . I think my time is expired but there is a loss of funding being made available to constructive employee. Could you talk about whether or not you support efforts to streamline permitting requests so consumers can reap the benefits of technologies more quickly. As you know, they have a bill that would provide for that. But, how much of an issue is that when it comes to building the new technology we support your bill strongly. Faster we can build these networks, the faster we we can bring 5g speed which are 100 times faster, and attach more devices to the network and lead the world in innovation. Streamlining is very important. Chairman, my time is expired, thank you. Next, will recognize senator fischer. Thank you mr. Chairman. I appreciate our witnesses being here today to discuss critical consideration for managing americas airwaves. This is baker mrs. Baker, i want to talk about the value of the fcc to continue holding the public spectrum options spectrum auctions. You addressed in senator thunes questions, when you spoke about the fcc and the issues of what happens there with certainties and etc. , if that deadline is not met and it is not reauthorized . Can you speak specifically to american taxpayers . How would they be negatively affected if we do not reauthorized the fcc Spectrum Authority . Thank you for the question senator. To get past all the technical stuff, and let people know why this is important. We are still in the middle of the race to 5g at this point and other countries have twice as much advance spectrum which is where 5g is being built across the globe. We simply need more to continue to increase our speed and continue to leave the world in innovation. If the fcc cannot hold options, we will not have any more spectrum and we will fall far behind and we will lose our global leadership. It will mean quite a lot. In 40, with our leadership, all the Innovative Companies are in the u. S. It is why uber and all the airbnbs are here because we let the world in 4g and we need to do the same with 5g and continue to authorize spectrum before they have to have authority. Looking at the overall Spectrum Management process, it is vital that all stakeholders feel fairly represented. Spectrum sites have shown a lack of trust in the process, motivating certain federal agencies to want to go to an tic ntia. How can we strengthen the integrity of ntias central and management of central spectrum needs and reach, to gain a trust from federal stakeholders . Thank you for the question. I think the mou and asked today goes a long way towards solving the issues. What you are really trying to emphasize is that all stakeholders feel fairly represent so when bands are defied for new allocations, they can identify concerns early and get the various technical studies necessary in a timely manner so they can be ready when the fcc does proceed with a proceeding. That was not really happening and we saw there was not really regular meetings between the fcc and the ntia occurring as regularly as they had. The reaffirmation of these agencies on a quarterly and monthly basis does a long way to get the issues resolved early in restoring that trust. A also served on the armed services. At times, i worry about losing dod spectrum. Putting some of that up for auction. Especially when we are looking at advances. We see them in technology with regards to providing our war fighters with what they need, and to also meet the threats this country faces from our adversaries. Specifically adversaries like russia and china. That is a concern that i have. I know that there has been good work in the past with bod. How can you assure me that the good work is going to continue in the future and we can make sure the security of the country will continue to be our number one priority . I think the mou is a good first step. I can only say that we certainly are interested to see how it gets implemented Going Forward. I think insuring those agencies get through the monthly meetings monthly meetings and shared information and consider all of the views. One of the recommendations we made that was not really part of the new mou was that ntia really explain to federal agencies procedures for how it represents executive branch views before fcc. That would also go a long way for federal agencies to feel more comfortable about, you had to make a decision about this, so i understand it is more transparent. Those two recommendations would help. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you senator. We are going to hear from senator rosen. Are recognized for five minutes. Thank you chair lujan and Ranking Member thune. The importance of Spectrum Authority, i am partisan broadband program. It is so important. We know last year, the i was proud to help draft that. We drafted a key broadband provision in the law including my own broadband meant act and the broadband equity access and deployment for beans program. This gave the last mile infrastructure. This was in a lifetime investment in our nations broadband infrastructure has the potential to only close our Digital Divide. This question is for all the witnesses. If the fccs Spectrum Authority were to laugh, what impacted that that has not implemented the broadband provision of the bipartisan infrastructure law. The middle Infrastructure Program and the Tribal Broadband Connectivity Program as well as others. We can start with mrs. Baker and move on to mr. Lewis and then dr. A basal. Thank you for your question and all the work you did on the infrastructure bill and also for mandating that it was technology neutral. Wireless provides two parts to the service. The infrastructure itself, which we are spending 30 Million Dollars a year, but also spectrum. If the fcc does not have the option authority to provide more spectrum, then there is only so much we can do. It is very important for broadband Going Forward and also implementation of the six mobile side of the equation for state to state side to decide how to spend the revenue. 5g home is a really good option to serve rural and unsolved areas. We look at that as an opportunity but it is important for the fcc to continue to option spectrum. Thank you. Thank you for that question. I do not think our work spoke to that issue so i would defer to my colleagues on the panel. Mr. Lewis thank you senator and thank you for your championing middle Mile Broadband deployment act. I agree that i do not think this has the direct government three effect. If we do not have the infrastructure, we do not have serve rulers. We do not have spectrum, then we we and we cannot serve rural areas. We also have to make sure folks are connected. Fiber, and wireless are all part of the solution to make sure everyone is connected. Mrs. Baker. I am sorry, dr. Basal. Spectrum authorities are an inner part of our Spectrum Management party that strategy. It would be not good for the wireless sector to not include that. That would bias in handicap the ability to rollout those programs. Thank you. In the minutes i have left, i want to talk about the spectrum policy and the impact on the wireless workforce. The Wireless Industry has been a significant driver of innovation. They have ushered in services and devices and millions of americans have depended on. Of course, all of our apps. The industry does rely on highly skilled workers to run through our networks and our Telecommunications Workforce is aging. They are there are far fewer younger employees with the experience needed to fill these. You discuss the ways the fcc could use options and design to encourage greater participation of underrepresented communities. What impact in a strong u. S. Spectrum policy with hiring and training, particularly once you look to expand and diversify our workforce. I believe there is a number of ways that it can have an impact, both on the hiring and employee side, as well as on the owner side. On the hiring side, setting standards for hiring contracts with vendors can set a high bar for companies that are receiving the Public Airways to live up to those sorts of standards on the structure that can impact the ownership side. Perverting competition. He surely set off structures that allow for small women and minor minor owned businesses to create compete in the auctions. You may not have all the ideas but we are interested in finding out what other ideas can be brought forward and celebrate the chamber recently reinstating the Advisory Committee on diversity and digital empowerment. Those are the sorts of things we love to see at the fcc where stakeholders can come together and come up with other tactics to promote diversity. Thank you chairman, my time is up. , we hear from senator blackburn. Thank you mr. Chairman. I want to thank our witnesses for being here to talk about this issue today. Mrs. Baker, i want to start with the first. Any issue you have heard me talk about is having an inventory of all the spectrum that is held by federal agencies. And, i was i would like for you to speak to the importance of why we ought to do this and we look at reupping the Spectrum Authority. Why it would be useful to have this if we look at the five team build out . Thank you for the question. It is important. I will go back saying the next spectrum we allocate needs to be banned. It is government spectrum. Two thirds of the midband is government spectrum. Any inventory would be helpful so we can know who is using the spectrum efficiently and who is not. That will help us as we use the relocation thumb that this committee so brilliantly passed it is so brilliant in relocating agencies. At think us to move forward, it is important to know what is there and what the value is and how it is being utilized so we know what is needed to reallocate it. Absolutely. I want to come to you now because she meant and the different federal agencies that kind of compete. Recently, we have seen what i would call a lot of sharp elbows between the dod and the fcc and the ntia and, lets see, the and other agencies. Why is it important for your recommendations to minimize this and how would an inventory help us to minimize to see differences between agencies in the turf battles that seem to be coming about over this spectrum. Thank you senator blackburn for that question. I would first mention that there is an inventory of federal spectrum uses. Ntia holds the government master file. We have ongoing work that we have mandated through the last ndaa for us to look exactly at that house. Various systems like that are holding that information and making changes and updates to those systems. I would just mention that there are a couple things that the file may not have. Things like where this might be used or the time at which the trim is used the spectrum is used. That would be information that is useful for reallocating spectrum and certain circumstances in finding out places where spectrum can be shared. I would go back to the recommendations we have in our report with respect to how we can avoid some of these between agencies in the future. It really goes to ordination among the agencies and and tia engaging with the agency and ntia engaging with the other agencies. I think the mou goes a long way as a great first step in terms of making the early coordination opportunities happen. One of the things you mentioned, strength spectrum, because we do have some agencies leaving spectrum unused for long periods of time. That is spectrum that could be shared. Dr. Basal, i am interested in your understanding of the ceos warning that she mentioned in your testimony. It seems like with your prior career experience that she would have helpful insight into how scoring may factor into a potential reauthorization. And what the spectrum Authorization Authority would look like. The subcommittee of energy and Congress Helped work on the raybons act. It was a big point of conversation, how this was going to end up being scored. In your view, what are the pros and cons of the 18 month reauthorization that is as opposed to going ahead into being a one year or four year we authorization . Thank you for the question. If the reauthorization for 18 months allows for the work to be done to have more direct scoring in a longer bill, that could be useful. We all appreciate that at the end of the day, we want Spectrum Authority to be there for a long time. Even if you extend authority for four years or 10 years, or is still any opportunity for congress to come have direct reallocation. Those reallocations will score positively. It will not score as highest they would, if they also include the authorization aspect. It would still have a positive score. It is a tradeoff and judgment as to whether or not a longerterm is necessary. Thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you senator blackburn. Next, we will hear from senator klobuchar. Thank you so much mr. Chairman and thank you for doing this really important hearing. I will start with you mr. Ruiz. I cochair the 911 caucus with senator byrd. An estimated 244 million million calls are made 201 centers annually. This Critical Public Service that we all rely on, relies on outdated technology. Some places take text messages. You can imagine someone in an emergency, why would they think to use text message . I am lead legislations to modernize americas 911 systems to hander text, pictures and video and other information sent by smartphone. Option revenue should be invested into Public Interest of subjectives. Dear green 911 infrastructure is in dire need of modernization . Yes and i would include the on the list of public objectives. I will go on and thank you for your support for the American Innovation choice online act. I appreciate the support of you and many others. This mrs. Baker, in your testimony, headed to the 5g benefit to the u. S. , putting improvements of Public Safety. How can 5g and other technology be leveraged to advance public communication yet thank you for your question and your leadership on 911. We are grateful that you have raised these issues for the next generation of 911 preand as far as the funds go, it is up to congress to spend them but that is certainly a word because it is ripped in places. The important thing in my job is to continue to bring people to the option auction so you can spend as you wish to improve Public Safety. In aws3, we created a bill for congress to spend these funds which are a great opportunity to enact your priorities. Thank you. Back to mr. Lewis, chairman wicker and i joined in introducing the precision act precision connectivity act. Then i dropped coverage. Chairman lohan has that incredible work on broadband. A lot of us care a lot about it. Especially when it comes to prison history. We also water levels so we do not you overuse water and we are seeing droughts. How can we make sure our farmers have access to modern internet capabilities and take full advantage of these new technologies and what role does spectrum play here . Spectrum policy can play an Important Role in promoting a variety of uses. Like precision in row areas, we have already seen precision, agriculture, and can make use of the cprs spectrum band. Under the third tier of a general access authority. This means they are hopefully working in concert with each other, under the standards of working in concert with the incumbent prioritization. This still makes great use for Rural Farmers and precision agriculture. The are also seeing wifi used in some areas through tv white spaces in order to promote precision agriculture. Setting up auctions into the future but making sure that sharing unlicensed and i sent officers are possible and licensed officers are possible. Last question. As we develop new technologies to deploy and maintain 5g, it is important to find Innovative Solutions that make the most of available spectrum. Especially the constraint on spectrum growth. In your testimony, you say this is important to meeting future spectrum needs. How can sharing techniques deliver more Consistent Service to consumers . The new technology, such as more creative boost and incentive auctions, but the database to manage sharing systems are newly innovated to create more value from spectrum and a way to find the uses of spectrum. Those will be a key feature Going Forward in making thrilled that we liked her as possible. Use spectrum as efficiently as possible. Thank you senator and thank you for the work you do every day. Next we will hear from senator moran. Thank you very much for your presence and your words and the wisdom you are imparting. I first want to to my colleagues on this and the full committee that i am supportive of an 18 month Auction Authority extension to the fcc. As probably the best path forward but i also would indicate, you said this and i think it is important, that i Want Congress to have a role in the determining of spectrum auctions and where the proceeds go. As you indicated, we have been left out. We also noticed on the bipartisan infrastructure bill that we were unable to get any credit for offsets as a result of the fact that congress had no where in that regard to how the proceeds were spent. I question my questions have generally been asked by my colleagues but i would turn to ask the department of reallocated spectrum does not always go smoothly . You seen that recently with the 5g deployment delay. One of the prime issues that was found in setting the ntia and fcc spectrum policies is there is an adequate coordination. He suggests a number of ways to improve coordination. Through those recommendations, any of them, account for the recently encountered cspan by deployment. If not, how would you recommend providing similar occurrences in the future in terms of Agency Coordination . It is hard to say exactly. With that issue in abc bands but the recommendations can go to some of these issues that came up. There was certainly opportunities early on for the faa to express concerns. Those are concerns that were not expressed so more and earlier coordination between the fcc and ntia. Heads up to the fcc to ntia that these proceedings would allow the faa and fcc to explore the issues and make sort of desperately issues to light. I think those recommendations will come up. It sounds like the usual communications that we hear regularly that fails to occur. I sponsored an amendment in you sica that would work to ensure the u. S. Is leading in international standards. This is probably for you mr. Van hollen, including the National Intelligence commission. These had a lack of space for enjoyment to be reduced to their underpaid their underpaid. My amendment was negotiated in the final chips and science act agreements. You mentioned in your written terror written testimony that the lack of faith has hurt participation in federal bodies. Can you elaborate on how a lack of coordination hurts this and what congress can do to ensure u. S. Leadership . Thank you for that question. Our work looks specifically at negotiations around the 24 gigahertz band. What occurred there was that there was no technical basis for the u. S. Position that was brought to the international proceeding. That was what undermined the u. S. Position, at least for some. So, our recommendations were not only for the fcc and ntia, to improve their processes, but also other federal agencies involved to ensure they are working with fcc the end ntia the fcc and ntia to get into the kind of work that goes into those proceedings. Also made recommendations to update the general guidance document which governs the proceedings which is a state Department Document that gives various players what roles they should be playing. We thought both of both of those things should be given. Do you have a sense of whether the recommendations are being followed . We have not seen this. But the mou have. Would you remind me why it is important for us to plead to these International Agencies that may be that is a policy issue. Perhaps something that is beyond to apply on. Anyone . Think the issue we are talking about was the 24 gigahertz and the world radio conference. U. S. Took a position and then later, looking forward, the way this can be helped is if an tia ntia is on board for decisions. If the experts make a decision, maybe we need to allow them to have more expertise. When they make a decision, it needs a final and that is what congress intended we have certainly mentioned that this will help but once a decision has been made, whether it is reality or not, the fcc for the commercial five site there whether it is federal spectrum and ntia need to have the final say. They need to be the final arbiter. We cannot have agencies going behind them. All the discussions need to have above need to happen before these have taken place. I am an appropriate for ntia and if there is ways we can try to get their attention, i would be interested in doing so. Thank you. Next will hear from senator markey. Your questions. Thank you mr. Chairman. We are in a period of enormously rapid change. Psychologically, artificial intelligence, 5g. Zoom and all of this moving very rapidly. But, thank goodness because also, any developments. In how to more efficiently use the spectrum which we have. And to improve upon our competitors. Will you take this question and explain how the recent technological changes are making more spectrum available for our use . It is not just more but more efficient use of spectrum. Have a market now that was very different. The spectra market looks very different than a couple decades ago or even a decade ago. We have updated and finer tuned our instruments. Many of the fights we have seen between agencies could be solved with early planning and early engagements. But also, making sure that we are looking at certain standard for the equipment that is used. This needs to be done early. I think this is why looking to a longerterm option authority can send the signal from congress that it is needed and we want to avoid those types of problems in the future. And unlicensed users are also important. Using disruptors. They are change agents and experiment that and experiments. We have to make sure we carve a space for them in this world. I would like to talk as well about spectrum options which do raise significant amount of money. Less than in the past but still a ton of revenue. They are made available. Just looked over at a real me. During the pandemic, we saw that there was 1217 million children that did not have internet at home. We were able, and i led the effort, to put in 7 million for an emergency cost activity fund. So that kids who work from home can have it. That funding is starting to run out. So, could you look at this issue for us mr. Lewis, and talk about whether or not these revenues should be dedicated to ensuring that we have a permanent emergency connectivity fund. No child, especially, black, brown, immigrant children in our country are left behind. Sure, thank you for championing the emergency connectivity fund, senator. I searched on my local school board for two terms and we lived that experience with students who were not connected in the home and the homework app is real with the disadvantages that they had with their peers. I think theres a number of sources of funding that could be used to continue the ecf. Weve talked about the airways for the idea and auction revenue can be used and set aside for Digital Equity funds and include the ecf. Of course, congress can always, because auctions dont come on regular schedule. Congress could appropriate more money to continue on that work, but certainly, its a critical part of making sure that everyone is connected and to see the benefits of high Speed Quality connectivity. Yeah, were going to have kids, you know, 20 years from now looking back at their childhood and saying they left me behind. I wasnt, you know, connected and i just think that with the revenues that are raised we just have to ensure that we focus on everybody getting connected and i think that that fund should get a part of any revenues and finally, on Net Neutrality, Everyone Wants competition, they want to make sure that theres a paranoia enduesing no competition environment and thats what Net Neutrality is all about, mr. Lewis. I introduced legislation a couple of days ago with senator wyden and some of our colleagues on, and the marketplace that allows every voice to be heard and every competitor to compete. Net neutral is important to prevent harmful gate keepers to the internet. For years now weve had providers committing to adhere to those principles, but we still have a number of examples over the years while weve not had clear Net Neutrality rules that should be looked at, that should be investigated by an Expert Agency like the fcc and unfortunately, they dont have the authority to do so right now so restoring the rules and that authority, i think, is essential. I agree with you. I think that Net Neutrality, it just means ondiscrimination, another way of saying it and we just cant allow discrimination on the net and thats going Net Neutrality and im going to continue with senator wyden with so many more of my colleagues. Thank you, mr. Chairman, the opportunity to be here. Next, well hear from senator cap capito. I know this was asked earlier, but i would like to can, imposing 15 book minimum tax and increase to spectrum license owners by 2 billion over 10 years. Like many virginians, im concerned it will be slower to close the Digital Divide because theyll have less for 5g and spectrum capability. Is it your understanding enacting on booked income as written in the tax and spend bill will raise taxes on spectrum license holders, thereby raising prices on already strapped consumers . It is, and hopeful for a technical correction so we can consider the spectrum option holdings the same as infrastructure holdings. Meaning, what, it will raise taxes . Yes, its both retroactive on the over 200 million on these spent on spectrum, as well as proactively. Theyre going to have to come up with the tax to pay for what they actually already hold that they were not expecting and i think that can harm broadband build out and harm the Digital Divide. Going forward, it will have to be built into second policy when it comes to on the sector. Thank you, miss baker, the investment in high Speed Broadband and the u. S. And as a result more americans are connecting. How can we ensure in light of the conversations that weve had today that theres sufficient spectrum to allow them to utilize these, and particularly in my state unserved and underserved areas. We appreciate this committees work on the infrastructure bill and also the emphasis to make it technology neutral. And its farther leaning and as were working with the states and develop the plans individually to hope that they realize the power of wireless and realize the power of 5g broadband and serve in more efficient way. I think as they said, getting the broadband to all of america is a big challenge and its going to require all of the above process and so, we just wanted to be included in the decisions as they make their plans. I would say that the entire panel asked this question. Is there a question of whether theres enough spectrum to handle this, or will it be robust enough for the harder areas to reach . How do you all think about this . Lets start on this end. Thank you for the question. In rural areas, the spectrum is not as constrained because there are fewer users with the same amount and theres the problem with economics so you need to fix the market imperfections that dont allow the markets to serve those areas. Would that be excuse me, is it an affordability type of issues, not enough customers, et cetera, et cetera . Its both. On one hand its affordability and making sure that the infrastructure gets out to the rural areas. As we know the Wireless Network is a wired network with a little wireless at the end of it with that infrastructure, but also for the companies to invest in serving the customers, they need the certainty that customers will be able to afford whats there. Its not just getting it there, its keeping it there and wellmaintained. Thank you for the question. I would agree with the doctors in terms of our work has shown great demand for spectrum kind of all over the board for wireless communications, for narrative of things devices and things that are evolving, and so, its you know, the sound management in trying to find better and efficient ways, more efficient ways to use the spectrum, very important. Additional comments . Go ahead. I would agree its a matter of getting it and some areas are hard to serve and we know that West Virginia has had some of the places and maintaining those networks. We also need more spectrum. The 2005 option is important and great for rural areas. This is the end of the spectrum pipeline. And about to lose Spectrum Authority. We need to make sure that they have the option authority. Yes. I would just add that its also important that were setting up our spectrum policy to use spectrum efficiently and in a timely manor, so, setting buildout requirements so that rural areas are not left hine. Yes, sometimes they can be deprioritized because of the lack of concentration of population. So setting these sorts of standards and if spectrum is not used or the buildout is not done, then that spectrum can be shared or partitioned and given to others. Weve seen some of this with the fcc recently with the recent ecip decisions, so, making sure that we have those sorts of rules to make sure that the broadband, whether its wired or wireless is built out and i think its important. Thank you all very much. Thank you so much, senator. Next, we will hear from the chair of the full committee, senator cantwell. I appreciate that. Chair cantwell, youre often very generous in that speck anythings. inaudible . Thank you. We recognize you for the companies. Thank you, mr. Chair and madam chair for your generous ceding of time and place. Ms. Baker, the demand for actress to spectrum is decreasing day by day, the shared assets along federal users and we need to increase research. These two for telecommunications scientists, itfs as we talked about a little bit is bolder and its the premier research lab versus for spectrum issues. Currently supporting the dod and the f. A. A. To prevent spectrum interference on radar systems. How would modernizing use of funds from the Spectrum Relocation Fund support the relocation of itfs to inform future spectrum policy decisions . Thank you for the question. Its a good one. The fund has done an awful lot and changed the way that we manage spectrum. There is a school of thought that says that they cant use the fund for future Spectrum Management it see when they might want to reallocate, when the auction is scheduled and cbn knows that theyre going to get the money back and so, it might be worth this committees time to look at the Location Fund to see if there are improvements that agencies could actually look for future relocation when its not an actual relocation thats going to take place. And those funds might be able to be used for that. Interestingly, i also understand that while any agency can use Spectrum Relocation Funds, ntia, which actually manages spectrum cannot. One way or another, i think, senator, im a big fan of the labs and great neutral arbiter of spectrum decisions and increased funding for them would be a good idea for this as a priority. But might almost cost alignment of selfinterest. Dr. Boswell you discussed need to consider use cases with regard to spectrum policy. What are examples how unlicensed spectrum benefits society and how should the value of unlicensed spectrum be considered into reallocation decisions. Dont let your education force you to overshine the people thank you, the wireless uses creates value, but not in a way that creates demand to pay spectrum at auction. But the social value and its worth saying that for the even for the commercial uses where we see the large auction values, the hundreds of millions spent. Its 10, 20 times its the value of the spectrum that goes to consumers. When you think about the value of spectrum to consumers, significant amount from license, but also significant amounts from unlicensed so measuring those its not just the wifi devices sold, its value of connectivity in your home and its the value of the internet of things, devices that are going to end up being on the frequencies and measuring that value to consumers is what policy makers should be weighing when they consider whether more spectrum needs to go for unlicensed versus licensed. And how much. And well, they need to go to both so its a question of how much. Right, got it. I agree completely. Doctor, when you earlier mentioned that you didnt think they were opine on that, i think thats the first time im relatively new here, but the first time gao did know the opine on anything, never been a limitation to their opinion. The review of Spectrum Management and clearly identify the lack of collaboration processes as youve described and weve discussed already. Disagreement over technical assumptions, interpretations and some of the data behind those assumptions, especially from invested interest. Again, natural, has been a at the root of these disputes. Does the gao have recommendations to help resolve the inner agency disputes such as using in some form independent Third Party Analysis . Thank you for the question, senator hickenlooper. We dont have recommendations specific to using a third party, but certainly, when we make recommendations to the agencies around trying to come together to have, you know, common understanding of what sort of technical studies should happen. We leave it to them to sort of determine exactly the best way to do that. So they decide that a third party would be a useful tool in certain circumstances, in terms of an arbiter, i think we would be supportive of that. You know, and the new mou between them they talked about a renewed focus on sharing technical information. They each would sit on Advisory Committees of the other and i think that goes a long way to get what youre talking about. Great. Thank you very much, i appreciate it and you guys have discussed this so many facets of interagency collaboration, a thats a point well talk for this. Ill yield back to the chair. Thank you, senator young. Youre recognized for questions. Thank you, chair. Today the fcc be and in. Tia released a new memorandum of understanding on introspection and coordination. Ms. Baker, in your testimony you highlight the enhancing of interAgency Coordination for spectrum decisions. Director von ah, yours is titled improved interagency collaboration, could strengthen spectrum reallocation efforts. I know you come at this from slightly different directions, i was wondering if you could both discuss the interagency spectrum coordination and how the u. S. Can approve current efforts. Mr. Von ah. Thank you for the question, senator young. I mean, the importance of the collaboration is to assure that we avoid conflicts that cant be resolved. Where youve got agency that tend to be perfectly frank, that were not jeopardizing either National Security or Public Safety in terms of the federal government use of spectrum. So understanding the ways in which reallocated uses might affect users and adjacent are important. Assuring that those views are expressed and considered as f c. C licenses and makes rules around power levels and other things, i think also is very important. It goes directly to the heart of recommendations that we made and i think its going to have a great impact on the level of collaboration. Thank you. Ms. Baker, you have a complimentary way to look at it . We have two great leaders at ntia and sec. And this mou, maybe its a response to spectrum coordination, but its a testimony to their leadership, its a good step, good first step. I think there need to be other steps taken. I think raising the level of administrator job to undersecretary shows the process they need to have in federal spectrum arguments. We need to empower both leaders to do their job. Thank you. Doctor, and ms. Baker, when Congress Gave the sec option authority in 1993, it created what many of us see as one of the most valuable tools in the fccs tool kit. Raising revenue for the treasuriry, and licensing and making sure that spectrum is held by those who value it most and put it to its most productive use. Currently the fcc expires, and you both discussed extending the fcc authority. The fcc authority is critical. We need them to be powerful in order to do their job. Were supporting i like 18 month extension for a couple of reebs, thats that they are allowed to do their jobs and that it holds the rest of the stakeholders to the fire to make sure that we get a section pipeline. We need a section pipeline because the rest of the world is moving forward. Its important for Spectrum Authority and i think it needs to be tied to specific bans so we can make sure that those happen. Allowing the Auction Authority to expire would be an owngoal for our policy makers, it is a critical tool in our Spectrum Management arsenal. The length of time we have to expand it. It creates the courage to make reallocation happen that wouldnt have happened otherwise by creating the bugetary incentives. And these will exist whether or not theres a longterm extension done, whether its 18 months or longer. Of course, it will be a stronger bugetary insensitive to direct reallocations afterwards. Thank you, and ms. Baker, just as my time comes to a close here, the fccs currently conducting an option. What happens in terms of the beyond the ground realities, should the Auction Authority expire . Well, thank you for your question. It is an important option. We have over 80 bidders. Over 80 Companies Bidding on that spectrum which shows how important it actually is and we dont know, because congress has never let the authority lapse before and we know that bidders need a certain date. Very good, thank you. Thank you, senator. Next, here from the chair of the committee. Thank you, senator. Thank you so much for chairing this important hearing, what i love about this Big Committee we also still get today attendance and important policy areas. My colleagues and i, but particularly senator young, just worked on major innovation act and this reminds me, doctor, of the same kind of question. We said we needed to modernize the u. S. Advances in chip fabrication and yet we know a lot of people like moores law ending, and not going to double capacity. Well look at new substrate, new way, how do we get more out ever the chips at a time when were trying to say were going to have Driverless Cars and theres the cars controlling information and 5g. So, its almost nearly impossible to think of all of the, if you will, applications. So, im intrigued by your testimony because youre saying were kind of looking at this from a budget protect and thats kind after narrow perspective. So, what would you say are the bucket or areas of how to take a better look at spectrum need, need, spectrum need and then you can get to these questions that we are kind of down in the weeds on. Which is, now, this use, that use, who gets it and whats the im not sure that we have a picture of what the need is or the possible need out there for us and where we might hit demand limitations. Its a question, we dont use spectrum just because its fun. Im a ham Radio Operator so maybe i do in my spare time, but commercially, we use it because it creates value. So its about capacity on the Wireless Networks. The capacity can be increased in different ways. You can add spectrum, thats what were talking about. And 5g put on the spectrum much more efficiently and uses the bands in a more sensible way so you have the lower bands to use for longer Term Communications and the higher bands for the cities with larger capacities. You can also with the dividing itself by refusing the same spectrum more often, so all of that capacity, thats the way we create capacity for the different needs. Those needs will be there, theyre the ones we know about like the commercial wireless operators that most of your networks are designed to meet, but the new internet of things is going to have a completely different demand profile on spectrum and then theres always the things we dont know about yet. Right, but this isnt slowing down. No, we this demand for communications is increasing. If you just looked at any of these forecasts, and of usage of wireless data is explosive and its explosive in a way thats not going to be met by spectrum or spectrum lows. Its many times the amount of usage. Spectrum is going to require use of Technology Much smarter than we are today. So youre advocating beside looking at budget issues that some of them should get points of consideration based on efficiency, or that we as a government should promote that just as we would promote activity on chips that made it continued to deliver more effectiveness. Yes, when we in the discussion about unlicensed, we want to look at the value created from it. The bugetary incentives are theyre certainly not the reason for theyre not the first reason for auction from the policy perspective. Its to get the reality to users as efficiently as possible. To the extent that auctions create the will to do that. Thats a good thing, but thats not the reason for spectrum policy in the first place. But what about applications . We just heard some debated here that 911 and the other things. The next generation of 911 and the idea that we have iphones, but we still have a network that doesnt universally use them is just amazing. So of course, we have to invest there. Having the money come from the sector makes a lot of sense. Value from spectrum sets spent in different ways and we talked about programs such as that, but they also get in some other ways, a builder, and a bidder will bid less for the spectrum and thats created, the holistic policy. I think all of these issues are important, like how to figure out interference and how to have a more clear role and how to have more predictability, but i think we have to get a better picture here how much demand is coming out of because i think its phenomenal and i think were going to be pushed to figure out what are the uses. If we feel were seeing competitiveness and challenges and people throwing this over the rail at you, i guarantee you, its going to be even more here. So, figuring out what is a Good Government policy, a way for us to input on that, its, again, about the big picture uses and what are policies besides gao and the budget. What are policies that would help us as a nation think through this. Thank you. My time is up. But if you have 30 seconds, im sure that the chairman would let you. The bigger policy issues, the sector is going to continue to grow and we will have a robust sector in this country in the future. We have a choice as to whether or not its going be to one based on low prices, high usage and more usage, more fulfillment of the wireless capacity or one a little more constrained, higher prices and less usage. Its going to grow either way, its going to be a challenge to meet that demandment im sure that people will say they want lower costs. Thank you. Thank you, chair powell. Next from; is that right lee. Youre recognized for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, id like to start with you. In your testimony you describe the fcc, ntia coordination process. And you noted in the last few years weve seen something of a repeat pattern, a cycle, if you would. Specifically youve seen that after ample review and number of measures that have been taken to make sure that all parties have been heard and all consideration, have been evaluated. A last minute objection from federal agency usually saying pressing need, or National Security unarticulated National Security interests need to come in and need to halt the licenses, thus undoing many years of Agency Action and cooperation. How do these last minute objections from federal agencies, who are outside the process, deflect the deployment of Wireless Networks . I think in the most recent case with the f. A. A. , i think weve seen a delayed 5g. So far from coming into fruition. You know, six plus months. So i think it does delay the i think that Going Forward is an interesting case, too, because if we look at the next target, theyre government spectrum and Government Agencies, so we really need to figure out how to be the arbiter, and stopping the process from getting broken the at end. I think thats right. We desperately need to fix this broken process. Were thrilled, of course, that that the reports with the theyve updated this, and thats great. Its a long time in coming and im glad that we made that process, but i remain concerned that these very large, powerful agencies are abusing the process. Perhaps in some stances, its withholding relevant relevant information from public view or from the sec and ntia with these important tasks. Would you agree that all of these agencies, including the big and powerful need cooperate and be transparent with the fcc and, t in. Ia. We need to get back to a process where it works. And some may say now that the mou has been updated theres no reason for congress to act. What is the risk of us not doing anything m the congress and resting on the fact theres an updated mou . Clearly you are important and that would go a long way. And mistakes are huge and youve alluded to this, you note in your testimony and moment ago that the United States is trailing our competitors in the clearing process, particularly for mid band and spectrum. Our spectrum pipeline is nearly depleted and so, does our current coordination process and our lack of a pipeline, what does that do to us in terms of our ability to complete globally. Well, the rest of the world is moving forward and we need to have a pipeline. I would say the last dispute with the f. A. A. And cband and taking attention away from those who were getting governor agencies coordinated and weve lost six months on the pipeline and to auction spectrum next. And we can still fix it and move forward, im hopeful. Weve made a lot of progress and we didnt find the bands are most viable for at that, the lower innovation band. And its not going to be easy, but weve made a lot of progress. With your help, with the administrations help, with the white houses help i think well get there. And my name has run out and make clear, make sure that congress does not let the authority lapse. Thats something that is coming before the senate and i hope and expect this committee to have some involvement in that. I know you do, too. If Congress Fails to address the policy options and worry that that would waken the u. S. In the long run. Would you agree with me, in addition to this, we need pro growth towels. We need to have the pipeline bans, theyre not easy to get it done and in congress to make sure that they get done. Without a spectrum pipeline, the r he is of the world moves forward and the u. S. Goes nowhere and yours is lost. Senator cruise recognized you for question. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and the witnesses here to talk about these issues. In 1934 congress charged the fcc with regulating for Public Interest. For years and years, who was and wasnt allowed to broadcast in the nations airways. In a clunky way, via the comparative process through beauty contests and lotteries. Then almost 30 years ago all of that changed when Congress Granted fcc to use lawsuits for the radio, and this marketbased approach crans formed how theyre distributed and which is revolutionized. As the scc report to change, spectrum author has a new era, competition, innovation, efficiency, have become the watch words for the private communications efforts. The fccs auctions programs has been success for the American People. And the new auctions have been looked at home. And used worldwide. If anything else, its provided new chance to bevel in recently years its felt like were taking steps backward in this area, the number of volume of spectrum. The 5. 9 megahertz fight, the auto manufacturers, 6 giga gigahertz. And recent the f. A. A. , airlines and mobile broadband providers. These spectrum food fights are having the same impact. Undermining the auction system which helped revolutionize not only american, but global telecations over the last 30 years. My question is simple. Is the Spectrum Management process today broken . Id like an answer from each. Senator, its hopefully on the mend. Were seeing an announcement between them. Ang i think that we can ask policy makers it continue to take other steps needed, to address the technical issues that need to be examined and determined on how spectrum works, and whether theres interference thats followed. We need leadership to make sure that there was a longterm committee to have them to be the final tort and as to figure is out, what is the need and how do we have those met as best as possible. We have the capability through sharing unlicensed and licensed spectrum, but we need the cooperation. Ms. Baker. Thank you, senator, a good question. And i think it needs help bhu it needs interest in this committee. I cant believe by the way its 30 years ago for Auction Authority. Thats amazing. I do think that a lot of these are technological questions and we need to empower more these are answers, known answers and we need to have, as mou is doing, have the problems raised earlier and make sure we have the neutral sources and the way i and its a Government Agency and people in the middle of a dispute. That doesnt seem right. I think we need to empower the fccc, and the ntsa. Maybe look at the riocation funds and what we need to do to do the research earlier. I wouldnt say its broken, but certainly failed in these instances. In our work we found largely these processes do work for routine matters. Agencies feel that ncia appropriately represents them and things are resolved routinely, but when things are more agency involved and decks sass treatment is. And thats what weve seen, in the last few years, weve laid to make recommendations to shore that up and i think the first step. Our Current System is pretty clunky and inefficient. But we have to recognize its gotten us to our Current System which is an incredible wireless, Broadband Network in the eco system. It could do a lot better Going Forward. Its clunkiness to going to be an increasing pediment to the language. How, next well hear from senator vul yan. Thank you, mr. Chairman and i appreciate the witnesss testimony today. And sometimes complex issues. So, mr. Baker, i want to follow up a little on what senator cruz is talking about and the system is starting to work, but were starting to see somethings framed in some way. The scc had an authority since 1993 without lapsing. What would be the consequence the if the fcc authority does latch for the first time in 30, 40 years, in october and im certainly ongoing the 2. 5 gigahertz auction more broadly. What would the sense of confidence in the industry be if there was a lapse . Well, thanks for the question. As you say, fcc authorities never lapse so the uncertainly that that brings is, i think, none of us have the right answers to those questions and i think none of us want to find out the answers to those questions. Its really important that they have the authority to do their job and while this auction is a really important auction and we have a lot of people bidding on that spectrum and its going to be very meaningful across the country, whats next is also important, this is an everevolving dynamic industry and devices are increasing five times faster and the fcc is going to have to the authority. Let me ask for you and then mr. Lewis, assuming we pass the shortterm extension. What do you think this committees priorities ought to be with a longer term bill. I think that everybody agrees that we should have a longer term bill. I think that we need a shortterm extension so we dont into this situation where theres lansing authority. Try to keep it short on what i just mentioned. We need a bill to go along with the special option authority. Miss of two minutes cuss on the 3. 45 in the spectrum innovation act and hope to add four gigahertz and seven gigahertz to that pipeline bill. Mr. Lewis. A longer Term Authority, even, would send a great signal from congress to the agencies and when i say agencies, i mean across the government. You have a real commitment to doing the work, the trusted finance work to determine what the spectrum pipeline should look like and how it will work across both government and private commercial and unlicensed use. So, its really about senator wicker used the term bitter certainty earlier. But bitter certainty is not the only important. At important as the Wireless Industry is, the providers, certainty for innovators, certainty for government and when suggesting we should have a longer Term Authority committed by the kong. Dr. , do you have a view on it . The spectrum pipeline needs to be filled. Many of us have can ideas what the reallocations should be, but as a practical matter its only once the fcc, and tia and the Government Agencies examine what it would pork. Is it right for congress assuring that they have the resources and the ability to do the plan they need will be key to being ready to have that manager direct Term Authority. Thank you. The big issue i think we need in terms of spectrum and also in terms of allocating federal funds that are coming from the infrastructure act and other areas is better fccntia and beyond that, federal Agency Coordination in this area. Over the past year that the gao has released a number of reports on federal spectrum, coordination, where youve made recommendations to ntia and the scc to improve collaboration on spectrum planning. Can you talk on that . Im not sure if you now the fivepage mou signed monday by mr. Davidson and the chair, i think thats an important step. Can you comment on that as well, if youve seen it and i other coordination issues beyond spectrum policy, i think theres a whole host of areas where federal agencies, particularly those, need more coordination for use of spectrum and telecomes for american alaskans, and well host a summet next week, fcc, ntia, first of all the federal funds when it comes to my state. Thank you for the question. As far as our recommendations, we were really looking for the agencies to shore up their collaboration processes so do you think the mou helps with this . I do so, think that read the report . Certainly read our reports and get a lot of comments on it. Good job. Seriously. One of the recommendations that we did make thats not reflected in the mou and how it coordinates with federal agencies through the projects and otherwise. And that they would explain how they represent agency views before the fcc to those agencies so they can understand the types of smaedz they may need to if theyre being accurately represented or how theyre represented and producing a final submission to the fcc. Weve seen agency submit their own comments, which is not disallowed by any means, but sort of reflects the idea that those agencies arent necessarily comfortable with our ncia is going with this. So having that ability to resolve those conflicts with federal agents that it helps would be important, too. Good, well, new for the work that you guys at gao have done. Mr. Chairman, i think its an important issue beyond the we can could that on site, coordinate. And particularly with the ncii and the host of issues that broad pant perform is really important. And i appreciate that, senator and what appreciate what was put together in alaska during the august working period as well. And they will discover, create, demand, during that information, its hard to connect states. And i want to thank him for that, were going to be watching closely. Thank you, ill give you a readout. I appreciate that. Well conclude the hearing, theres a few things i wanted to ask based on the conversation that we already had, so with your intelligence, i hope not to go more than five, 10 minutes. I want to start with senator sullivan concluded his testimony. Mr. Baum, the records, two that were produced by the ga on on the urgent need of improvement with coordination and the planning process for federal Spectrum Management. So well work with you to get that done. I will agree with the testimony that the updated memorandum of understanding and coordination was real process, but the work is just beginning, i think that needs to be emphasized while theres a good signature here and good one on paper. How it will be implemented and how the agency will Work Together will be watched by all and i think there was complete bipartisan agreement on every aspect said about that, so, i know our friends are listening and watching and surprised if any of them are in the room today. I want to ensure that both agencies, the fc c n tia and how we get there. And thats building off of the question that our chair asked, specifically to the need, and allocations, also senator klobuchar asked specific to some of these parameters how they should be prioritized. Im going to get in trouble with senator hickenlooper and senator markey, and those across the country who didnt have this after what the country experienced with covid. And we should look at down the road. With the bill that says 100 of the country will be connected. I hope that proves true and that your expertise is going to be needed to help provide that guidance and answer questions during the implementcation. Gaos work, providing congress with factbased nonpartisan information that can help approve government performance and accountability for the American People and youll hear its going back to you quite a bit and to the gao. In your testimony you have had advocate to promote the position of undersecretary. Can you quickly explain why thats important for step one for everyone to consider . I think it gives a number of thanks for the question. As undersecretary youre at a higher level. If youre dealing with an assistant secretary, the balance is there. It would help to show the authority that congress believes they should have in spectral dem nation committees. There are refs object the recommendations, and i think its an important area for everyone to Pay Attention and especially when it breaks down. It could be as simple as ensuring that someone at the table are respected by those doing work with them. I appreciate that as well. Mr. Louis, i think youll agree our first and for all americans and i would emphasize all americans. Its congress job what will ultimately serve the interest. And Public Safety must remain a priority. The importance of looking at safe and reliable communication networks, ensuring that firefighters, Law Enforcement and medical professionals to do their job. In my state like in eye other in my and other states, missen and murdered indigenous persons, and to dial a 911 call that could save their life. Solutions to triangulate where the person was the last time they may have pinged and this usual and families are getting the attention in the federal government should have been there, when i say Public Safety, the fires in new mexico, started by the federal government, a burn thats out of control, im told its a low mers taj, none of less that fire started two in our state recently and cost people their lives and now were seeing flooding and people costing people their lives. With that being said how can congress ensure the Public Safety prioritized when developing National Spectrum policy . There are a number of ways. The investment of dollars in next generation 911 is a Public Interest value and emphasis on the resiliency of the networks. And we need to emphasize that during National Disaster and situations and when were talking about speck trul policy, the importance of setting the rules for prioritization for the network, we talked about the cbrs and years of access and that theyre advertised especially when those emergencies happen i think is an important priority. As part of that, mr. Lewis outside of spending proceeds, it was something that caught my attention, inhansed, and the chairman rosen was there was tribal communities. How can Congress Expand on each to better promote better competition . Senator, i think the simple mandates to extend the same concept of values that we saw with the recently, this is the idea of partitioning off spectrum, intersent advising licensed services to partition off that spectrum. So that on communities that dont have access, can use it when theyre not using it. Weve talked about building up ours and we need to enshrine that further. I appreciate that. While theres a more rrobust, and never seen, and its uniting the country. If in fact it will not be at states in the country. And some of those a challenge with the topography and geology. I very much appreciate your testimony there. Mr. Von ah, one area that received a lot of attention of myself, being proud to be in a state with tiebl and my and one conversation with those who have been hired and responsible for the work, sometimes given the short build out and time requirements, theres challenges for connection and adoption the promise of 2. 5 mig ga hertz mains sore some informations that i have. What information does it have for programs in the 2350u67 . Thanks for that. Theres a report that we reissued in july and we looked at tribal ban issues and the programs that could support deployment of broadband on tribal lands. Let me start by saying, the prieshl we have hundreds of them that dont have licenses. And in many, the work that they got, the frustration, they got the licenses and not the building to do that. And the time frames associated with that. And they all have their own time frames in terms of the ability for tribes to apply for it and a number of the tribes that got the license are ones where they dont necessarily have a tellco and they dont have their own Wireless Network at this point and were hoping for the spectrum to create the new Wireless Network. So theyre sort of they have a reliance on whether it be local tellco or consultants to tell them how to build without the. And our focus was ledging to several programs and address the problems that you see and barriers that you see on tribal land. We representation to the president , in a broadband strategy that we recommend that they develop and we also made recommendations to the department of conference and to bring federal issues to bear across the variety of programs. Hopefully those at least make some headway into the very important issue, so these lands do fall behind in terms of connectivity in the country. Its my hope that several committees will show interest in this particular area, especially given the challenges that we know exist. And with infrastructure challenges in front of the tribes with easement approval. Things of that nature. This is another area getting that connectivity and being able to provide support. Were leaving this here to keep our over 40 year commit gavel to gavel coverage of congress. The senate is mostly debating on judicial nominations. Starting at 2 15, whether to confirm john lie for the u. S. Court of appeals in the seventh circuit and a vote on advancing andre mathis, president bidens dom knee to the 6th Circuit Court of appeals. How live to the floor of the senate on cspan2. The chaplain, dr. Barry black, will lead the senate in prayer. The chaplain let us pray. God, you are life, wisdom, truth, and blessedness. You are our hope and the center of our joy. Lord, the founders of this great nation walked in