Books, including the best selling mans manson and also the road to jonestown. It was 30 years ago that the Branch Davidian compound near waco went up in flames after a 51 day armed standoff with atf, the fbi and texas state law enforcement. All of that with the world watching the fires spread through the building after the fbi launched six tear gas canisters into the compound. The blaze caused the death of 76 civilians, including 25 children, two pregnant women, and david koresh, who was the controversial leader of the group. The dramatic and tragic events from start to finish played out on americas tv sets, and in many ways that fire has never gone out. Today it continues to burn, inspiring antigovernment, activist and militias. And so we need to not have a clear understanding about what happened during that raid. Who were Branch Davidians . Who sees them as innocent victims that need to be avenged . And also remember this event as proof. They see this as proof that the federal government has too much power and that the government will trample on peoples religious freedom and gun rights. And so we need an accounting of what actually happened at the waco burning two Branch Davidians. And thats this book does. Jeff corwin shows us that this is a its important to understand what happened in america then today. And jeff corwin, welcome to the center in your book festival. Well, thank you very much. Nice to be back. So when if youre in a conversation with someone, maybe at a bar. In a bar stool, and the guy next to you says, hey, man, you know what happened at waco, dont you . What is he saying . Depends how much hes been drinking. I think that over 30 years, a lot of myths have not only begun, but theyve been embellished to the point where now, when im out on a book tour and ive been out on the road for this book since january 23rd, always in the crowd. Theres some people who werent even born then, but the things theyve heard about waco in mount carmel are such that they these really important events and it sort of direct their beliefs and certain things. The guy in the bar stool probably believes that some time, a whole bunch of years ago there was a group, a religious group, maybe they were crazy cult, maybe they werent, who knows . But they had some guns. And first the atf and then the fbi charged in and it took them a while, but they finally accomplished what they wanted, which is killing most of the people there and burning the place to the ground. The fact that none of that is true is not evident to a lot of people. The whole story of all the parts of it all, we context really. Its never been out there. So it seemed to me it would be valuable to have a book that offered that information. And thats what they tried to do. So rather than tell the stories that maybe the guy in the barstool wanted to hear, that there was this black up helicopters coming in, nefarious action by the government that instead it was a bunch of ill informed leadership making bad decisions. Thats what we see in your in your book in waco. But lets get to the big decision was lets go and make the siege happen. Lets go to mount carmel, where david koresh and his followers are and attack them or siege them or somehow gain control of that compound. Even though we knew that they knew were coming. So my first question is, how did the Branch Davidians know that the atf was coming that day . And the plan, such as it was, was that the Branch Davidians were illegally transforming semiautomatic weapons into automatic stick. They had the parts to do it that was an illegal. But what was illegal, they werent registering and we werent paying taxes with them. And former Branch Davidians telling atf that the Branch Davidians believe they had to create a war to bring about the end times of revelation and that they might even take their guns and come on down to waco and get it started that way. The atf plan was to take the Branch Davidians by surprise in an Early Morning operation. They deliver that execute in order to arrest david koresh, a. K. A. Vernon wayne. How they would confiscate whatever illegal weapons they found and then they would leave. There was never any intention of any shooting, of any kind. A lot of the atf agents, instead of having magazines of bullets in their pockets, had candy bars for the Branch Davidian kids. The big problem was that the Branch Davidians wanted to be attacked. This is what david koresh had prophecy to them, that the forces of babylon, by which he meant the u. S. Government, would show up, attack them, and there would be a fight to the death where many would die. That would include koresh, the lamb of the book of revelation. Then theyd come back translated by god, and thered be a big final battle that the lamb and his forces would win. This was the end of the world. So when atf showed up that morning to the Branch Davidians, this proved david was right. And now were going to have a fight to the death. And thats what commenced. If everything for atf depended taking the Branch Davidians by surprise. The atf believed through wrong information that all the guns at mount carmel were locked in a room. And if the branch of indian men and women wanted to get to them and fight, koresh would have to give his permission. Then hed have to handle the guns out that there would be time to break through the door and get in there and take control before they had their guns. They all had their guns in their rooms already. The media, some members of the media had been tipped that atf was going to have a trade on the sunday morning, february 28th. The reason they found out that was because atf had called the local Ambulance Service. Well, just in case there is some shooting, we need a couple of ambulances and the woman at the Ambulance Service who took the call was the girlfriend of a tv cameraman in a local waco tv station. And so on the morning even before atf arrived, newspaper people were there, sort of ringing the road around the building. Tv crews were there to film david koresh being arrested and taken off the property. The problem was, one of the newspaper guys got lost and he had to ask directions and he saw a male car coming down the road and he waves, you know, because, hey, a mailman knows where everything is. And the mailman happened to be david jones, a member of the Branch Davidians. And the tv guy said atf is about to make this and ive just got to get in the right place. Can you tell me where is mount carmel . Jones pointed so you can see it right over there. You know, its a big building. And then he got in his car, reach back, told david koresh. By the time atf arrived, all the Branch Davidians with their fully automatic weapons were at their room windows all around this big building. They had the high ground. They had the more powerful weapons, and atf had no cover whatsoever. So the Branch Davidians, they were tipped off through this ineptitude that the atf was coming. But then the atf out that the Branch Davidians knew that they were coming, yet the order to go, go, go was still given. So what happened there . One of the frustrating things in writing this book is even though i can promise you after years of research, after going through all the document, after interviewing so many people, there was never any plot against the Branch Davidians. There was never any government intention to go in there and make an example of terrible individual decisions were made by some atf and fbi officials, and thats tragic. Thats horrible. Thats unforgivable in this particular case. Atf had an undercover agent inside the building inside mount carmel when david jones, the mailman. Got back and said, theyre coming. Atf and this undercover agent left the building and immediately called chuck, sarah and one of the two agents really in charge of the operation. Atf officials had promised that if they lost the element of surprise, theyd call the raid off. And Robert Rodriguez told chuck serban they know were coming. We have to call it off. Sarah ben and the other atf official in charge still thought that the guns must be in some locked room. Maybe there would be time. We still rush and get there now. They wont have time to arm themselves. So they gave the go order. This was a horrible decision. It was a deeply decision. It was not in any way part of an overall master plot to destroy the Branch Davidians, but it was still agreed. Yes. And so the raid took place. Really . Not a raid, but simply executing an arrest warrant. People died, right there on the spot. The next day, the fbi initiated to the siege media around the world flocked in. I know im probably the only person here old enough to really remember 30 years ago. I mean, the rest of you were all kids, but it was one of the first events in American History where you could literally watch on tv every minute of the day what was happening. And because of that, people started speculating. They havent stopped speculating since. Accusation is that the atf gave the go order because this was supposed to be a publicity stunt, a moment of glory, an opportunity for the atf to show a new president ial administration that they had value and worth and that the they needed to be funded or even have more funding. There is no question atf wanted this raid, this operation to go smoothly. There had been a fiasco seven months earlier called ruby ridge, in which the fbi, atf had both come out looking pretty. And for the atf, this was opportunity on a large scale, demonstrate. We know what were doing. Obvious certainly they didnt. And there were mistakes in the planning and carrying out of the operation. But perception so often overcome these reality. People tend to go with what they immediately think or what somebody they trust is them has to be the truth rather than trying to find the facts for themselves. And that is happened here. The worst mistake atf made even worse than the go decision was that there leaders did not in way teach the agents who were going to make that raid what the branch believed and it would have been easy enough to find out because david koresh was pretty open about if you know that a group a wellarmed group with firepower is actually waiting hoping you will come and give them the chance to engage in the firefight that their leader, their prophet has told them is going to happen. Why in the heck would you do . You wouldnt. But that decision wasnt made. And from that, Everything Else turned. If atf if the agents had known what the situation was, they would not have started in way they would have done a surrounded call out operation called the siege. And everybody just would have waited until the water inside mt. Carmel ran out, which it was going to, and they finally would have come out. So many mistakes, so many bad decisions and so many terrible for all of us. All these years later, beyond the fact that people died who did not have to die. So the day the siege of the attack, we have local tv cameramen shooting video of the atf agents climbing the side of the building being shot at. We have agents who were wounded who were on the hoods of vehicles evacuated from the scene. So a somewhat cease fire was was announced. It was dramatic incredible video that was shown at every newscast for the next six months. And it wouldnt stop. And then that got americas attention like is going on here. This is incredible. But how can this happen . Every satellite truck in texas and beyond was sent to mount carmel outside of waco, and they began do live hits at five, six and ten, thinking that this will wrap up any day now. But it dragged on and on and on for 51 days. Thats a long time, even by those standards. Back then, before cnn there, cnn had been on the air about ten years at the time, but they were just now finding their stride. So they were also broadcasting this non stop. This has became it became a magnet for attention at the time. And so we had daily briefings by the fbi only because you couldnt talk to the people in mount carmel. You couldnt talk to the of koresh. You talk to the fbi to find out whats on. And they used those briefings to demonize who david koresh was in the compound and the crazy people inside. Can you talk about what americans learned during the 51 day siege . There was a four letter word that the fbi used over and over because they desperately wanted americans to associate koresh and the Branch Davidians with two previous groups that had gotten a whole lot of attention in modern day america. Charlie manson and the manson family. Jim jones and peoples temple. And so they are lumped together by the fbi with the Branch Davidians as a crazy cult, with some obviously insane leader. And either they going to want to try to kill everybody else or they are going to go ahead and kill. The truth of it is, even we have the manson family, jim jones temple and david koresh and the Branch Davidians. They had very little belief in common. Charlie manson was just a kooky pimp who pretended, preach and some drug addled kids believe him jim jones was an early civil rights leader and in indiana and peoples temple, some great things before drugs and hubris twisted jim jones. But they were always about social movement, gender equality, racial equality. David koresh and the Branch Davidian were bible literalists who believe that god occasionally sent a prophet who would share extra knowledge with them. They believe that koresh was the greatest prophet of them all. And that god had told them in the bible, you have got to do this. Youve got to have this final fight. People have got to die. They truly believed it then. The survivors believe it now. But fbi did everything it could to go cults, nuts, guns, murder, death. If you went to pedophilia. Well, it was also known that by this time, david koresh had taken wives. He wouldnt let any of the other men in mount carmel have relation with any of the women. All the women were his wives and he took little girls as young as 12 in the name of his religious freedom, he was raping little children is awful. It was not a good situation. But atf in the fbi had no jurisdiction over that of lawbreaking at all for atf, it was strictly the guns. That was all they knew about really. That was all their operation was was meant to fix. Again. Theres plenty of places dig in and say, oh, to Branch Davidians had to be crazy to believe what they believed. And yet im sure theres many people today who were christians go to church on sunday and believe, right, this was just taking that belief steps further. The simplest way put it is we one Branch Davidian put it to me, a survivor. If you believe in god and you believe that god has told you to do something, wouldnt you do it to them . They in fact, were the warriors. They were the only ones who were right and anyone who would stand in their way try to prevent them from doing anything is violating their freedom of religion. Isnt there, during this 51 day siege, all sorts of attempts to get the Branch Davidians to come out at one time was david koresh going to send children out holding hand grenades . Koresh promised the fbi three days into the siege that if they would allow him to make a tape of his beliefs and tape was broadcast nationally on radio, that he would always would come out peacefully and the fbi let him do that. And the christian broadcasting network. And i think harold, at the dallas broadcast. This tape, david koresh, they got on the lamb. Heres the truth about the seven seals. Then the fbi waited for them to come out within mt. Carmel. The belief had grown. And david koresh was telling them this, that this was the time that they would go out and have their translation that he had prophesies that theyre to die and theyre all going to go to heaven. And they were going to come out as a group and they were going to have hand grenades. They also had illegal hand grenades, guns and they were going to blow themselves up, be translated, god. And if any fbi agents were within range, well thats just collateral. That was what they expected to the fbi. The Branch Davidians would come out quietly surrendered, be put on a scuba person, be taken to be processed. And it was about to happen when david koresh announced to his followers, god had told him they werent going to come out yet whether that because david koresh just didnt want to die himself that they whether david koresh truly believed god had told him not to come out who can say but they didnt come out the fbi that proved that you cant trust koresh. Whatever he says, no matter how often he promises will come out. He never will. Hes just going to stay in there indefinitely. Longer. Hes in there. The it looks the world is watching. How long can we let this go on . It seemed like david koresh was trying to orchestrate a dramatic conclusion to this standoff that would sizzle through the ages as it has and hes a showman in many ways, trying to figure out how to keep the the attention of the public capture that and exploit that. And i dont know if intended on having the the fiery inferno ablaze at the compound at the anthill. I think called it but you know thats what he got. Theres no that david koresh enjoyed the limelight. But you also have to remember that as far as he and his followers concerned, he deserved it, that he was the greatest prophet the lord ever put on the earth. And when whatever happened, finally happened, this would be the beginning of the end times. Thats what they were hoping. The armies of god will defeat babylon. True believers will be spared, and the thousand year kingdom god is going to begin on earth. So something radical had to happen for that. But then towards the end of the it looked like there was an opening. Koresh announced that if he was allowed to write out what he called the seventh seal of the great book of heaven, i dont know how many people here have sat down and read the book of revelation at any point. Have some of you done that . Yeah, its its pretty complex, isnt it . But the idea is in the book of revelation that when the lamb, this special prophet, opens or translates or explains each of the seven seals more terrible events happened on earth until when the final is opened. Thats when you bring the apocalypse. So he said. If he could write down explanations of the seven seals, he thought it would take him a day and a half for two days for each seal, send out. And these explanations would then be given to religious scholars so that all people who talked about religion, religion would be able to use his guideline and bring information. Maybe we could stop the in time before before came. So fbi should let him do that and then they will all out and surrender. He gave his word and he started writing those explanations. He completed one for the first seal was halfway through the one for the second seal. But then the fbi. This was just one more of his ways of getting attention and dragging it out. And they decided on that 51st day that they were going to end it. They had what they thought was a foolproof plan. It was approved by attorney general janet reno, who had only been in office for a few days. People think reno was there just supervising the whole time. She hadnt been confirmed by the senate yet, and she only was into office about 30 days into the siege. But the fbi promised in writing, seeing the writing, that what they would do is they would insert us or tear gas gradually into mount carmel over two days, just a little a time. So that would irritate everybodys eyes and skin in there, but it wouldnt be enough to permanently damage anyone, including infants and that the Branch Davidians would come staggering out. Theyd be arrested every there would be no further bloodshed, and it would finally be over. Thats what reno okayed. And what everyone expected to happen, except of course, it didnt turn out that way. So that they had gas masks. The Branch Davidians . Oh, yeah. They had countermeasures ready for this type a cease, which is like a high grade tear gas. The Branch Davidian had prepared for Something Like this by going to Army Navy Stores and buying gas masks. They hadnt realized that the gas masks wouldnt fit the little children. And theres still 23 children inside. So they tried to improvise for the kids, soaking towels and water and kind of patting the mask that way. But they had believed that they would be able to withstand Something Like this. What they had not counted on and pretty nobody counted on until the fbi decided to do it almost immediately was the two days worth of gas would be inserted by firing canisters into mount carmel over three and a half hours. So that actually the halls of mount carmel filled with these choking combat clouds of gas. David koresh, that real name, vernon. Wayne howell. He adopted it. Its interesting how, you know, he shows up, use earlier at mount carmel. Yep. And he is a completely different kind of guy. He is a stuttering goofball, chronic masturbator who somehow, while at mount carmel did receive the gift of gab and gift to prophecy. I mean, that was something that impressed many of the people inside that helped them believe that he was special. Talking to some of the survivors of mount carmel who were there when vernon wayne hale arrived, they were all going, boy, you never would expected him. He couldnt complete his sentence. Basically, but he was taken under the wing of lois roden, who was the prophet in charge. Then she made him her special sort of student, even though she was in a six year sixties, and he was early twenties. They became romantically involved and she basically nurtured him. He went off to israel to do some kind of research and study there came back in, announced that he had been taken up into heaven where angels him that he vernon hale was the new incarnation of king cyrus the old the only gentile on the Old Testament whos referred to in the bible as a messiah. So so he had to take cyruss name in cyrus in hebrew to pronounce koresh. So he must. Koresh cant be hal beyond that. That he was the lamb in the book of revelation and that he would be the one to interpret the seven seals and bring about the end of days, which all certainly sounds interesting. He persuaded everybody there or most people, their only problem was he had plagiarized every of that from an earlier prophet cyrus tiede in fort myers, florida, who had also announced he was taken up, told he was koresh and the lamb and Everything Else. Its almost word for word people wonder now, is this going to have the possible will, the reason this possible is a book of the first koreshs preachings had found its way to the waco. In 1972, so libraries are great, but but let us say this because you see that only libraries are special. The folks here, the archivists would have known there was dangerous stuff in their book and they wouldnt ban it because we dont believe in banning books. But they would have been very careful about access to that book. And waco was just, oh, hey, you want to read this . The point being, everything said. Whether he knew it or not, it may have been that lois roden convinced him of it was not original. It came from an earlier koresh and that is in the book and its all documented for you folks who might be interested in so point being wed come to the when the fbi lost patience with koresh. They work in a way to see if he meant at this time or not. Were going to get to the legacy of rage. I want to get to that and well get some q a soon. The audience. But first, i want to compare to what happened at mount with the. 2028 raid in texas at the yearning for zion ranch, where which is out by angelo eldorado, where there was a warren jeffs was there. He was arrested the cps, Child Protective Services were there. They found 437 children at that site. There was the biggest Child Services action in the history of the united states. How come that didnt end and they were prepared. Theyre also a doomsday cult. How come that went smoothly ish and not like and didnt go south like Branch Davidians . This question lets me give two main points. We should take away from what happened at mount carmel at f and the fbi made terrible mistakes in waco. But if you want the best proof that there was never any government conspiracy or intention to just make an example of these people here and how the government would then try to overreach and shut down everyone afterwards, bear this in mind, there have been such sieges periodically since there has never been another that ended in this kind of tragedy. Atf, after the events in waco, made decision its leaders that atf should not try such a complex operation again. They simply didnt have the capacity to get the kind of intelligence they needed to carry it out and that they would go back to doing more localized arms enforcement and though the fbi is not an agency that would say, you know, we screwed up, they also made the and we have this again in the book from agents and internal memos that werent supposed to get out in the world and somehow did what. That they were going to show restraint, that this was never, ever going to happen again. Tragedy only becomes failure if we dont learn from the tragedy and try do better. And when we talk about what happened in west texas and the results are so different, look, all those years later, the Government Agencies under better the absolute need for restraint and theyre showing it. The second point that needs to be made and please never forget this i have spent so much time now with agents, the atf, people from the fbi and the surviving davidians for where waco was concerned, and particularly after ruby ridge for atf, for fbi, the best possible result would been a clean operation where was not a single shot fired, where everyone was gotten out alive and we could all work from that. That is what both those agencies wanted and needed at time. The only the third group involved, the Branch Davidians, was the only group that had death as part its agenda. And thats an important thing to remember and i think it really can tell us a lot about joined mutual responsibility for the terrible things that happened legacy of rage the memory of what happened at waco and that that memory has gone through funhouse mirror a couple of times and thats why we need books like yours to help keep it on track. These are the facts. Everything in this book is sourced and documented. Its not hearsay. Its not. And that sole sources that are anonymous, its all documented. Theres not an anonymous source in the book. So this is where you can go to to find out what actually happened. What we know for sure happened, if its in this book, it happens. It was said. But two years after the siege, after the fiery event we had the bombing by Timothy Mcveigh at oklahoma city, the murrah federal building. He did that. He said he did it and revenge of vengeance for waco. Mm hmm and ever since you say that january 6th, the attack the insurgency on the us capitol that was also inspired by waco and now most recently we have this leak of important us military documents about ukraine and american readiness and other things that person who leaked that information was known to be on message boards, talking about waco and ruby ridge. Thats all connected. And that happened ten years before this guy was born. Mcveigh up the federal building. In the book, we have pictures of Timothy Mcveigh perched on the hood of his truck outside mount carmel during the siege peddling antigovernment tshirts and bumper stickers. If you look at the stories about january 6th and were seeing now people coming up for trial if you go on the sites for some of these organizations, promise keepers, so forth. Theyre organizers, all say that they decide after waco that the government was out to oppress citizens and they had to take arms and be ready again. We have to share this young guy and he is using waco as validation because was where the government showed it happened and that if you, you know in any way oppose, they will destroy you. Weve got podcasters the first time alex jones any National Publicity he showed up at a mount carmel Memorial Service grabbed the microphone from the moderator and started yelling about next time theres a waco, if i can get there, were not just going to be trying to rebuild the church. Waco haunts us to this day. And if we sit today and think, oh, my god, how did it to this . Waco isnt the only reason. I mean, theres always been pockets of americans believe weve got to arm up the governments coming for us but it is Still Critical the things that happen. Got a lot of numbers in here that again, never take the authors word for anything. If you dont want to look at the chapter notes and check for yourselves. If these things are real. But until we start using history proper where we keep terrible tragedy from ongoing failure by really paying attention to the facts and the mythology. Thats only what were going to start. Get a handle on things, folks, because its just its still more and more and more. And the only way to stop it is to see where it started and try to learn from that. And i still think we can. So lets open the floor to questions. And so wheres the microphone at . Yeah, if you want to ask a question, you have to wait for the quote for the microphone. So we get on cspan. Yes, its its on its just two quick questions. Who owned the land and the second the. Yeah, it was i was just wondering who owned the land and how did that happen . The Branch Davidians owned the land they had originally owned hundreds of acres in waco and had sold some off. But they up with 77 acres. And by the way, they only call themselves the Branch Davidians a certain period of time. By the time koresh was there, they just called themselves bible students. But when the media arrived. And were trying to figure out who are these people in here . And they looked at the deed. The deed said it belonged the Branch Davidians and thats why we call them Branch Davidians to this day. And did the ambulance dispatcher was she ever held accountable . I couldnt hear that. The ambulance dispatcher was she ever held accountable . No. No. Right. Lets go up here. We made this. We got him in right up here in the front. Jeff, theres a recent documentary on netflix. I just wondered if you were consulted, if youve seen it, would you recommend it or any kind of critiques . Oh, im im very careful about stuff like that. They were doing, you know, filming it while i was out researching. So i was Never Associated it. And when im out talking about a book of mine, i try to be very careful not to watch, say, a documentary or something. So if you ask me if ive seen it, i can say no so. I cant comment. Rather than saying my books better, you know what you might get contaminated. Yeah. All right. Yes. Ive read your book on jim jones and on charles manson. And what impresses about those is the number of people that you research and find and talk to and people who are way far back in their background. So id like you to talk a little bit about how you find those people and you convince them to talk to you, knowing youre going to publish whatever they tell you. Well, any time theres a notorious subject, you know, and there are books that have been written previously, always two or three people who are sort of the go to folks everybody talks to. And i always think theres more people know things that just arent as eager to come forward. So what will do is i will go to the places things happened and spend time weeks just in the community, getting to chat with people and meet people and people who are reluctant to talk. Usually theres one way you can actually get them to talk. Most folks dont like to be confronted, you know . You know what happened and youve never talked about this. The jurys possibility. Instead, let them. Everybody loves to explain. I always say, can you help me understand and have this happened. No, because if you have a tape recorder, youre lazy and you just think, well, the tape got that, and thats when you find out the battery ran down. So i always i always take notes by hand. One more question, more questions. Wheres the mic . Okay. There you go. I was i was going to ask about the previous books that youve written as well, because youve written jim jones and charles manson. And im wondering how david koresh to those two individuals and if you saw some kind of through line similarities through three individuals. Yeah. Is this the trilogy trilogy . I dont see myself writing about cult anymore. No. Three plenty of Charlie Manson was a hustler he was a hustler, a demagogue for his time, which was the late sixties when you had all these young people, america, just looking for a guru like. The beatles had to tell them what to do. Manson took account of that cultural opportunity. Jim jones really was a great civil rights leader before he became dark and twisted. And its important that we remember this. He grew out of that Great Civil Rights Movement in america where somehow we were going to write all the wrongs and make everything happen. And he simply came to believe in himself as something he was not. And that led tragedy, whatever else, be said of david koresh and the Branch Davidians, koresh, master the bible. He knew every aspect of it. And what we cant tell how much koresh believed. I can tell you, i know what his followers believed. They believed in the bible. They believed in god. They were biblical literalists. And to this day, unlike the survivors of temple or the manson, they believe they were doing the right god ordained thing and given the opportunity they would do it again. The question im actually old enough to remember all of us as it happened. Youre sitting. I wondered how you feel the government did with the gun control issue, because thats been bandied about for many decades, how the government needs to do more to prevent shootings with gun control at my personal opinion, as i feel the government the best they could to do what the law was expected to do and obviously it didnt go very well. I wondered your thoughts were on that. I write my books not to convince anybody of my political beliefs, but to the facts out there. Are you asking me as an individual as opposed to being a writer, to handle the bad decisions . I, i think that obviously we need to have more gun control somehow, someway, and somebody has got to step up and do it really, really short on time to squeeze in real quick. Thank you. Thank you for telling stories that need be told. Ive been going to waco all my life. Nice town city, have grandchildren learn children and to this day i cannot see what waco has to do with this event. Its in the same county. Why is waco the word saddle to such a tragedy . A horrible event . Because it was it was the easiest thing they say the gunfight at the okay corral which wasnt a gunfight or at the okay corral, but it just fits when people want shorthand for something. Waco is what was picked. Thats why its title of my book. All right. The people of waco had nothing to do with it. I to thank all of you all for coming out here. The book is waco branch to the david koresh the Branch Davidians legacy of rage. Jeff quinn is the author. Jeff was great having you here. Thank you. Ill be out of the cemetery. Hell be out signing of the book at the nowhere bookshop tent just outside of the my name is cary clack and im a columnist writer for the san Antonio Express news and i cant say enough