I wouldnt even try. Host well i have just enjoyed our time together so much here. This is again a great book, one of the great things about this. Thanks for taking the time. Guest thank you for asking me all those wonderful questions. I wish i had known the answers. Host thank you very much. Appreciate it. When i tune in on the weekends, it is usually authors sharing new releases. Host Mary Katharine ham, coauthor of end of discussion, what is the outrage . Guest one of the things we talk about in this book in a discussion is that every single thing becomes a thing. It is driven by social media, starts on College Campuses and the wrong word at the wrong time that everybody gets into a tizzy about ends up becoming a lot of pressure on everyday people for how they talk about issues, especially thorny political issues. The risk of people on facebook or twitter or even jobs as they sing in various places or people face Economic Cost for having the quote, unquote wrong opinion or saying the wrong word. That is something people worry about. Host what is an example of one of those wrong words . Guest i think theres a bunch of them. We talk about categories of wrong words. It is a whole lexicon of operation silent pain like microaggressions. Anything that might offend you for any reason is a macro aggression based on pseudoscientific, but saying i will try to shut it down. They dont like who you are. Check your privilege because theyve heard enough from your type. We think theres plenty of true examples. You shouldnt try to offend people. If you are white men, you should recognize we have enjoyed a very privileged place for many generations. Those things are not enough to justify shutting down or delegitimize in her dismissing someones point which is sometimes how this game works. Host this can get uncomfortable writing about it, talking about it. Guest that is something we wrestled with. Navigating officer saw from thinking he was going to throw the flag on a sweater. We tried to be smart about it, but what we want to encourage his sometimes people make mistakes and you dont have to get all up in arms about it because that prevents the back and forth. Every time you talk to somebody who disagrees with you, you are not going to communicate the same way about the same thing and we have to have some ability to deal with that little bit of discomfort. Host we had one example where sort of the lgbt spectrum of issues on the chronicle at end of discussion of various people have transgressed by using the wrong word or adding a syllable to a word and not being immediately deemed as transphobic. Shut it down and we show how this applies to a columnist who got raked over the coals to katie couric and piers morgan sort of mainstream leftleaning. A liberal activists got glitter bombed because he was all the way ruder rupaul, perhaps the most famous crossdressing person in america on her show she had a segment called youth email. No one is immune from this entity. Host who has been offended . Guest that is one thing we talk about in the discussion is the groups can be really smart and make a lot of noise. One of the things society at large needs to do is respond occasionally but those little bit more your concern is noted and also shell out because not that many people are offended by this. Too often we hear the squeaky wheel and think its a giant story because it sounds bigger than it is. Sometimes i need to have the maturity to say understand your problem but we are not going to stop talking about this. Host the end of discussion is primarily the political left engage in a mess. Although we call it not just conservatives but ourselves personally when we contribute to this problem where there is a tendency to substitute outraged for actual argument. You try to shut down debate by preventing the debate from happening in the first place and thats how you win. We think that is toxic for a country that should drive on free expression. Many on our same set as the only way you teach these guys a lesson. We just think that sounds really it sounds terrible. An issue about bridge in this campaign has been donald trump not responding fast enough to david duke and white supremacy. Would that be an example that one would find in end of discussion . Yeah. We have a whole chapter on race and with donald trump at us funny he appeals to a lot of people who are adamantly opposed to political correct as and thats one of the things that can be refreshing about him. Theres a distinction between political incorrectness inserted object were as for the sake of rudeness. When it comes to the david duke fan, one thing frustrating and we talk about the end of discussion, the left sometimes with president obama as racist. I think when youre asked a question and you are reject dean the ku klux klan, that is not a dog whistle. There is one answer to that based on human decency and that is to reject them out of hand immediately and the fact that he didnt and that interview has raised eyebrows. Theres a few things right the relegated. Overt racism. That sort of status will be reserved for really awful thing. Doesnt attribute to every little thing. Donald trump rasmus mentioning is a little bit of prescription and the problem in this case. He is sometimes off the cuff and politically incorrect. Users are left to say you are this or that any cap the discussion anymore. Hes an interesting dichotomy on the subject. Host what is your relationship . How did you get together to write the book . Guest we are extremely close friends. We have the way back in the day years of go by a wellknown booktv mainstay and he suggested i was moving to d. C. Briefly. She was working at that point that you guys should hang out and we headed off and we decided we found ourselves having conversations frequently about the topic of discussion. We called them had explosions. Can you believe what is happening . Finally we said someone not to write about this and perhaps enough to be asked and then we did. Host but just friends. Yeah. Host theres a chapter written here and i dont know who wrote it called the demagogue. But we talk about in that particular chapter of the discussion is the feminist movement and how so much of it is built on singing if you disagree with any part of their political agenda, you are not a real one in. That is the clear, often explicit disqualification of other women. I happen to be one of those women who does not agree with modern feminist on every single issue and that they will say over and over again, stop talking. Thats enough out of you. Or youre just a tool for other people. That robs women of their individuality. It robs them of their quality to say unless you are in this space every year, you can speak on political issues. My grandmother, my mother before me, very interested in equality and thats why im here today not tv and have family do these things at one time. But i didnt get liberated so i have to believe everything the left tells me to. One of the campaign issues, especially on the democratic side as women make 72 cents of every dollar that men make. Is that something you address . We do. And not very chapter, part of the war on women that the left promulgates and it is a fiction. It is mostly driven by abortion when they dont want to talk about the fact women are basically evenly split and on late term they are overwhelmingly opposed to it. They want hide the issue because its not convenient so they dress up questions and all sorts of accusations. They can talk about economic studies and the reasons behind the pay gap. Multiple times over. Economists who have been part of that and women less than men by their own clumsy standard. It is used purely for point scoring to try to say attention women of america. We got your back. They dont. They dont like you. They hope that the details get glossed over. Host i would argue plenty of discussion, but lets look at the economic analysis. Lets not just say white house economist under obama had said thats not really the whole story. It is not just discrimination. If you want to solve the problem, you look deeper than that. Host do micro political issues like that still work . Are they effective . Thats what theyve done. How conservatives can fight back. Come with profile Senator Cory Gardner from colorado to 2014 election made his entire campaign about the war and women. It was constantly lying about abortion and distortion and cory gardner figured out early on the best way to respond to that is a cheerful truthbased way. It is not just complaining about how the sky is falling. We really believe in order for this issue, the Free Exchange of ideas and cutting down on demagoguery, cutting it out of our political diet has to come from both sides. People of goodwill on both ends of the spectrum have to link on and say lets come together as americans. Calm down a little bit and not assume the very worst about each other on every issue so they can have a discussion rather than admit before it begins. You can see guy benson on fox news. You can see Mary Katharine ham on cnn. You can buy their book, end of discussion how the lefts outrage industry shuts down debate, manipulates voters, and makes america less free and fun . You are watching boat tv on cspan2