Guest every time there is some type of protest movement organized a mass civil disobedience, other kinds on the part of African Americans by people in coalition with them all is what they asked for are the principles, pristina American Values. And Martin Luther king asked for justice he spoke in the tops of the language of the declaration of independence and the constitution. It was not the tones of some alien philosophy that exists in some other country. Host in that book you recount some of the black Resistance Movement over the years. When did it for storage . Guest there has been a Resistance Movement since the beginning of the republic. In the colonials we have documented movements of people trying to escape slavery, trying to resist their oppression. Not as many as one might hope. A lot of discipline. Loss of movement. I wrote a book once called black resistance wedlock. A couple of chapters on the war, the black Resistance Movement. Blacks and some models or a live together in florida and fighting to maintain their autonomy. So in one way or another, different modes of resistance, there has been some kind of resistance. Tampa port an article years ago which i used. Day to day resistance to slavery. What they meant by that is the Little Things that a person can do daybyday, breaking toes were saying that the animals would not plow or wherever it was. Some way to resist. There are many differ ways to resist. Host if you have to make a general statement about what life was like for southern blacks into to not last very long. Excitement. Eventually black man get the right to vote. And we know that there was great excitement about that, including women who could not book but he wears the men on and would tell them how embarrassed there would be if they did not even though it was risky. So there was great excitement about the prospect that would take place, and these were dashed. Was a great change be ample left wherever they were wandering all over the place looking for other families to put them back together. Kids to have been sold away, all kinds of problems and a they were trying to reconstruct. It was excitement. Host white is reconstruction of last iraqs bid to it did not last because once the war was over the area soldiers wanted to go home. That was one thing. And no one was when in a position in the north to permanently occupy the south panera the south was not about to give in to the chains that had taken place without resistance. A lot of violence when these groups like the knights of what can million, we talk of a terrorist groups in our country. That existed. There is resistance and the desire to end the war the blacks were left on their own pretty much. Host when did the states Rights Movement began . Guest states rights started way before the civil war. There were from the beginning of the republic when we got the 2party system which was never envisioned, a thing abcafive and, we then did people arguing of of the meeting of the constitution panera some people taking the stance that the tenth amendment have more privacy than the rest of the end of the people feeling that we should have a Strong National government. This discussion animated the debate over slavery in the south end it animated the debate over the tariff and then puts coming into the country. Who benefited and he did not some of the great statesmen of that time by john calhoun and others work, and fact, states righters. Happened before the solar. Some people think it is something that happened way after and that we talk about it now, but it is of long standing and, in fact, debates about it at the Constitutional Convention the privacy of states rights. Host waited the term jimcrow come from . Guest there was a move according to people who researched this. I am not. My colleague with whom i wrote long memory wrote about some of this. They would dance. The dance was called dancing some crowberry it was a man struck kind of black face, the way that blacks were supposedly. Host when did that movement in . Guest after reconstruction and the ending of reconstruction. We actually get laws passed the segregate on the basis of race. Those a formal, legal structure to place gradually and was in place by the end of the 19th century as we go into the next century, in fact, it was in place in reality in many places. All that was was a different way to control black people below full control by slavery. And now to control them by segregation which would also mean that they were inferior host back to your book many blacks felt better about the certainty of discrimination in the south and the bewildering twists and turns and the color line in the north primitive was not that the south was a land of opportunity or that Race Relations are better there than in the north. On the contrary, blacks prefer the soft because of a masondixon line in new what to expect. In the north discrimination appeared in the most unexpected places. Apec was never sure of how tax. Guest right. You might assume that every where everything would be desegregated and ella would never say anything racist or do anything that was a solution very panel but it might have been carried it might happen dividend they were, in fact, places where interracial marriage was illegal. There was some segregation that you would encounter. Whereas a number you knew that there was legal segregation and that you would be segregated. He did not have to worry of of whether that would happen perry that was the way things work spent lets go to your book, but. Guest i mentioned it earlier. Guest white oppression and black resistance has been a part of the american scene since the colonial. The response of the government in its efforts to suppress racial disorder has reflected the tension between the lofty ideals expressed on which Constitutional Government is based in the tendency of the white majority to desires of a predisposition. The collection of the white majority to suppress the first africanamericans to acquire real freedom and equality in the u. S. As a group even when white oppression means resorting to an illegal violence and brutality is added to that tension. Guest right pyramid that is a truism about the long sweep of American History. I began writing at polk when i was in law school at michigan. I began writing it the night Martin Luther king was assassinated by was angry and upset i had been asked by one of my professors, when did the president start using executive power to suppress Resistance Movements . And i had not thought about the question in quite the wave of food. And so i started clarice search in that book which eventually get published. But i think that statement is a truism about the country reenforce something you said earlier about blacks embracing American Values and then fighting. I told you about Resistance Movements reaching out to those values prejudices a goal and this is will we want prevent description is the way the system worked. But within the description is the dichotomy between the values and the reality and will blacks are always seeking is to achieve that reality. It is, in fact, we are still seeking. Guest originally written in 1971, 1994. Guest published in 94. Does that still holds true today . Guest bring the book up to 90 floor. The changes that took place over the years. A closer approximation we came to achieving those goals while there is still a lot left to be done. Lets talk about the various Resistance Movements and how they were suppressed. Host ferguson, how does that fit into your book . Guest i would have to take into account what i know based upon the hearings that ended at the Civil Rights Commission based upon Police Community relations in my own experience with these matters panetta would have to write. While we have made great progress which is, again, a truism, sense the time that the book was begun and since the beginning of the republic will we still have not quite done it right. Some proposal have not clicked and the message. A lot more needs to be done. Host when did he served as chair of the sole Rights Movement . Guest i was appointed nominated in 1980 and confirmed by the senate parent i had run federal education programs. But with that when i left the apartment he appointed me to the commission. I stayed on the commission. When bill clinton was president he made me chair. Host when the distillers commission began . Guest 1957. Dwight eisenhower as president who had it propose to him by his attorney general at a meeting. One of the things that motivated it was the protests among blacks and the road but that had been done during the truman administration. The beginning of desegregation in the armed forces, the continued complaints about Race Relations and racism in the United States making it hard for the United States to stand up and compete in the world the underdeveloped world, asia, africa, and more and more attention was for the minds and hearts of men. I guess women, the Appellate Panel were always pointing out cannonades im anything happened permitted it just made it really, really difficult. All of that was one reason why his attorney general said to him, you know, maybe we should do is set up a commission. In the United States government sets up commissions from time to time. Your listeners notice printed whenever there is some problem that seems in solvable, we get a commission. They make an investigation. Usually then make it and go away. The books, you know, on the shelves and that is the end of that at seven next cyber. John eisenhower in suddenness that, if youre going to do this theyre going to need subpoena power and people are scared to come and so congress has to pass it agreed to subpoenas somebody need the authority of statutory law the first alights act passed since reconstruction, and it was set up, supposed to be one year palin and manitoba people who were there that he pounded the table. Have to put the facts on top of the table. I dont know whether he actually did, but that is the story. In any case they went out and started doing hearings. They were to be independent and given independent you to the public and the president and to what is going on in Race Relations and how they would go unsolved and his problems. I left the commission in 2004. I resigned right after george bush that sarah and the commission i resigned from it because i knew we would not we had not had a majority in favor of doing something positive and civil rights in my opinion i had struggled and done Everything Possible to try to get something done bush would continue after he was reelected with the same policies he had before priscilla thought that i have served my time so this week committed the. Host is the commission different than other agencies might whoevers in power in the white house is the majority . He served as chair. Guest when the commission was set up by eisenhower and i explained this in the book when it was renewed after the first year and kept on being renewed and is still around it was pylos an independent agency independent from the president , everybody. And it was to have balanced. At first the people were nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate. Was to be bipartisan. The idea was that no one would influence what they did. When they had reports have ready they would release of. That was the idea abuse. Host in that book the u. S. Commission on civil rights and the struggle for freedom in america, you write that the Civil Rights Commission betrayed the nation for which the agency was founded and headed did not address flooding of the need to find ways to achieve diversity spells jury did not do any of that that is true. Not even so much that they might have different opinions printed is okay to have different opinions panelled but when a major episodes and events will occur will investigate and made the commission would go and investigate the causes of things they seem to be oblivious or has some reason i dont know about for not investigating any of these things. Host one of the things you write about was the 2000 president ial election. Guest i was chairman. He got all of these complaints from about problems they were having ended they wanted the commission today something and with the law says john and the commission had been very visible for a long time. And the law required us to do something. It said that when people complained, Voting Rights shove investigated. The staff collected all of this information. And a couple of them went down to florida where all this was coming from to see what was going on, talk to various we all agree, republicans and democrats, that we had been busted. We waited until the election was over. We were not trying to interfere with the election. And he did want to find a with the problems orbitz. We did hearings in florida which were televised. In fact, there were televised almost everywhere in the world that had televisions. Subpoenaed people. The governor, Katherine Harris to my secretary of state, also on the Bush Campaign committee and so on as well as the people who has complained about what had happened to them people who were told they were felons when they had never been arrested. Even one of them was the county clerk in charge of elections and the they told her she was a felon. Listed unless the fellows that they had permitted then we discover through the testimony that the company that did upwards of the list, but the right list, Katherine Harris, secretary of state and her staff and that the list would erroneous because of the way that it was done. They went ahead and did it anyway. Report finally focused on something that none of the media really talk much about. The media was consumed. What we talked about mainly was then no count, and he went to try to vote. Theres so did not leaving it included. People are quite upset. I mean to my elderly people who were told that the polling place was upstairs in a building. When they came from the Senior Citizens center, no elevator the people who are disabled, i remember this. He could not get to the polling place because they moved it and there was a big ditch in front of the polling place. Start yelling that he wanted to go into the polling place privately told him he had to get someone to carry him across the ditch to get into the polling place and the one where people found out that theyre calling place was inside the gated community and read when they drove there to go inside to vote it was after work and there was nobody on the gate and they did not live there. They could not kid in the gate. Sitting out there blowing horns. The plan side did not know how to open the gate because nobody told them carried by the time the state troopers came and all this stuff happened it was too late to vote peso theyre all these examples of people who felt that the right to vote had been taken away the minute we made some recommendations to congress and the public which ended up in something called the help america vote act passed by the congress permitted did not take all the recommendations, but it took a lot of them and sends of having a provisional ballot. You think a person as phelan california had provisional pilots. You could let them vote and check it out later middle lot of other arab governments that needed to take place and money for the states to use to clean up the voting system. Has not solve all the content of wrigley still the boss of a couple of Voter Suppression and voter fraud in, but that was one of the reports that i think did some good. Host one of the issues were discussing today his voter ideologue. Guest voter i. D. Laws conceptually makes sense. We have to have idea to get on a plane, for anything. I cant even go to my Doctors Office unless i have an idea a gun the building which i find curious. The problem is when aid is used in situations where a client dont have access or cant get the propriety or turned away all it does is serving as a device to keep it from voting. One of the books i will start writing when i finished the show, voters depression and drug. My preliminary research, people who dont want to increase the number of voters engage in a Voter Suppression. That means the package choice but both parties probably have officials who do a little fraud every now and then spending and in this is book tv indepth, a Monthly Program with one offer, his her body of work. This month it is dr. Mary Frances Berry, former chair of the organization of american historians. Here are written current books beginning with black resistance wedlock, a history of constitutional racism in america, military necessity and civil rights policy for black citizens to ban the constitution. 18611868 panera stability, security, continuity about Justice Carol burton. Along memory, the black experience in america cannot in 1982. The politics of 1993 the performers daughter. My face is black in. From 2005 damage justice for all. The u. S. Commission on civil rights, the struggle for freedom the leader most recent published book pelerine words, the story behind barack obama speeches from the state house to the white house. If you would like to participate the numbers are up in the screen. Five William Burrows 3881. For those of you in the mountain and pacific time zone we are taking comments finally were worried born and raised . Guest as well, tennessees. Host why . Guest why was i born in asheville . To i