Jackie oh , nancy reagan and her 2013 release, let freedom ring stanley tericks Iconic Images of the march on washington. Host author kitty kelley, how did you get into the unauthorized biography business . Guest with both feet. With both feet. I was a researcher for the editorial page the Washington Post years and years ago. When i left the post i thought it would be absolutely wonderful way to make a living. At that time i went to the editorial page conferences every day, and provided research for the writers. And i thought, this would be a great way to live the rest of your life. It would be like going to school every day. And then i realized that writing articles would be hard to make a living. So i was asked to do a book, my first book, the very first book, the one i thought would make me for ever was an investigative look at the beauty spots in america. There were only 12 at the time. Only 12. This was back in 1978, and i thought this is fascinating. So i would go to every spa, state week and i would write a chapter about what they were really like inside. I thought, this is it. Its it sold 14 copies. My mother my mother bought 14 and that was it. But i remember when i went to one place, it was called the hot springs. I would arrive on sunday and stay for the whole week and put that in the chapter. I arrived, and the woman at the desk said sit down, please. Weve had a problem here. We have some writer coming from washington, d. C. And we just had a death in the back to l. A. Has just died. Suggested down there and i will be with you in a moment. And i thought, someone died . The point of this book was that i was going to take part in every come everything they offered and i thought, no, i couldnt do them a bath. In the, that was the first book. And the next book was a biography. Host who is that on . Guest it was jackie oh and the publisher would asked me if i would write a biography on jaclyn kenny for nasas come and i said youre crazy. I have Read Everything written on the kennedys and on mrs. Onassis. Theres been thousands of books and i went to the library of congress at that time, remember when they had the card catalogs . I told him how many books have been written and december could be another book. And he said, youve got to write a book and get behind the myth. And so i did. I wrote jackie oh and thats how i got into writing unauthorized biographies. And please, lets tell your viewers that unauthorized does not mean im true to. Host how do you get beyond a myth . What are your techniques . Guest well, you know, it was president kennedy who said, i think, that the biggest misconception is not really the lie, which is deliberate, contrived and unrealistic, but the myth, which is persuasive and wrong. So that i tried to do, i try and do as Much Research as i possibly can. I do start by writing the subject, because all my subjects have been alive. They are a tightknit society. They have in some way influenced our landscape, left an imprint in our culture. I write to them and i say im doing this book and id like very much to have an interview, but i want you to know as a matter of courtesy that im going to be trying to interview friends, neighbors, business associates, employees, former employees, and id like to be accurate and thorough, and to date, to date him and its been over 30 years, no subject has given me an interview. So what i do, this is a chronology host show it under the camera. Guest this is the chronology i did for over. I believe absolutely everything that has been written, so before even to an interview ive read all the books, articles, everything. And i put together that chronology which is a benign, factual that one is about 103 pages. So that when i come to interview you, i can say, well, you new opera in 1978 through such and such. And then i will open to 78 and ask you about some of the things there, and it helps because memories are fragile. Host you write in your book, the family, the real story of the bush dynasty, i believe the people we most admire, most influenced our country. So those are the lives of children to examine. Guest thats right. I do believe that, and if you believe that its important to know their life story. How they achieved the power they have, how they have exercised their influence over it and what constructs that life story. Host after writing jackie oh , was there any lawsuits . Did anyone pursue a lawsuit against you . Guest no. And what was so amazing in jackie oh , i interviewed one of president kennedys best friend, senator George Smathers from florida, and i worked very, very hard to get the interview. At first he said no, and i kept writing them and calling him and finally the secretary i think felt sorry for me, and he agreed to see me. And i went to his law office. The interview was set for 11 00, and i arrived at 10 45, and i waited until 1 45. When he walked out, he said, hello. Im on my way to the hill. Im so sorry i cant talk now. Maybe one of these days. And i kept trying, and finally the secretary said, all right, do you want lunch with him or do you want the end of the day with him . And you know, thats its a tough one to decide. Finally, i said i will come in at the end of the day. I had an extraordinary interview with him, in that he talked very openly about president kennedy and his private life. And at one point in the interview, he was talking about john f. Kennedy sexually, how he made love. He described him as a rooster sitting on top of the in. And before i could shut my mouth, i found myself saying, senator, how did you know that . I make him how do you know that without being in the room with him . And he said, well, of course i was in the room. He said, jack liked having us around doing it. Okay. I got the interview. I went out. I wrote the book and i fully expected senator smathers to did i every word. Because people do deny. He never did. Instead when the Washington Post called him he said, yeah. He said, i said it. I think i was just run over by a dumb looking blonde. Host do you editorialize in your books . Guest no, i dont editorialize. I think every biographer and editorialize is in what you choose to put in. And, you know, every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. I really try and be, i try and show all sides. This is why i love biography, because you were telling the history of the time and youre trying to give a nuanced, complex picture which is what most people are. Host few women in history you right at that the power to stop the world simply by getting married. For five years the widow of john f. Kennedy had been the house object of peoples admiration and overwhelming gifts. Guest i wrote that in 1978. Were sitting here in 2013, and i would stand by that. Host did you like Jackie Kennedy on nasas after you are finished . Guest yes. I think it to go into these books, if not liking her subject, respecting your subject. And i came out of that book with real respect for this woman. She was strong and she was a great mother. And she i didnt realize until years and years later when i wrote this that capturing camelot book, which he really gone through with the john f. Kennedy. I dont mean so much to infidelities as the years of sickness. I had no idea of how really sick john f. Kennedy was. Yes, i came out of jackie oh with real respect for the woman. Host nancy reagan the unauthorized biography, being here you write the white house chief of staff would never admit it nor would the men around him, but the first lady control the presidency. It was nancy reagan not donald regan who ran things in Ronald Reagans white house. It was she who dictated the president s schedule, supervise his speeches guest i stand by that. She was busy, wasnt she . [laughter] she was a powerful first lady, powerful. Petticoat president as they might call her. And i came away from that book having respect for her power. Because she toned down Ronald Reagan. She helped push him with gorbachev. She was very good in that respect. Yes, she was extraordinarily powerful people were terrorized of her. Host did you ever meet her . Did she ever consoled and sent to an interview currently no. She never consented to an interview. As i said, none of the subjects have. But i did meet her very, very briefly when i went to the white house with a photographer friend of mine, and he was taking pictures of president reagan and mrs. Reagan for the cover of people magazine. And they were having a hard time getting the president to relax. He was upset about what was going on in congress. And i still member when we went to the white house, we got out in the back and they were sharpshooters on the roof. Because this was a few months after the assassination attempt. Guns, policemen all over, and im holding the light for the photographer, and he continued to argue with the president. He said, mr. President , i want a picture of you like this, strong and reagan said, i dont like to fold my hands. Im an actor and i like to put my hands in my pocket. And Stanley Tretick is taking pictures said, mr. President , we need a strong and you cant argue with him im like this thinking, please, stanley, just do what the man wants. Were going to be shot. And, finally, the president got so mad and he just went like this. And stanley got his picture. Anyway, mrs. Reagan came out and i met her very briefly. Host who is Stanley Tretick . Guest Stanley Tretick was one of president kennedys favorite photographers. He worked for upi, and he covered john f. Kennedy during his president ial campaign. He was a very good friend of mine, and after he left upi he went to work for look magazine and took his assignment was to cover the kennedys. The president , mrs. Kennedy, the families, the relatives. He went to hyannis port, camp david, and he is probably best known for the iconic shot of young john playing under the desk. Stanley was a good friend of mine, and when he died, he left in his archives. And thats why ive put together the photographs in capturing camelot. Host your are a couple of those pictures. Heres one with john john. When was the gain secret that john kerry get elected light traffic he just lied, apparently people would whisper in his ear and tell them secrets. And you know something, as you go through that book, there is not one im attractive picture taken, which has got to be part of the kennedy appeal. Everybody is so beautiful. Host you the picture that mrs. Kennedy said was her favorite of the two of them together in the back of a car. Why was this her favorite track to she told stanley, this is a photograph taken in the white house limousine coming back from blair house to the white house, and the president is reaching over and taking a hair that had blown, putting it back into place. Mrs. Kennedy told stanley that it was the most intimate and affectionate photograph that they ever had. And it was spontaneous. John f. Kennedy in public was very, very reserved. No public display of affection, rarely held his wifes hand cant even after the inaugural speech, he didnt kiss his wife as most president s do. So this was an important picture to Jackie Kennedy. Host you have a picture in here of him putting on a late and eating. [laughter] guest yes. He hated you know, this was a symbiotic relationship between photographer and the president , because they both cared about getting a good picture. And kennedy refused to be photographed eating or doing anything silly. He wouldnt put on a hat, and the only hat do was willingly where was a hard hat. And he told stanley that he felt the of labor, hardworking labor people could turn out for him, a rich mans son, he was proud to wear their hat. And the only other time he willingly put a hat on was a top hat at his own inauguration. Host Stanley Tretick died when . Guest stanley died in 1999. Host he also keyed archives from the 1963 august 1963 march on washington . Guest yes, but i did know i had them until i was curating the capturing camelot book. And then i found 200 photographs of the march on washington that had never been published before. So i went to the publisher and asked if we could please commemorate the 50th anniversary of the march on washington with this book. And the wonderful thing about both books, peter, is that all proceeds from the capturing camelot book go to the d. C. Public libraries, and all proceeds from let freedom ring will go to Marian Wright edelmans childrens defense fund. She wrote the foreword for the book, because she knew stanley, and she marched, and she knew Martin Luther king. So it was, it was wonderful to have her forward in this book. Host Martin Luther king and when wilkins come a driving down to the march. He was inside the car with them. Guest is just amazing, stanley is sort of like hes all over the place. There are some wonderful pictures in that book, two of them i think are outstanding. I had never seen a photograph of Martin Luther king smiling, or laughing. Granted, Martin Luther king, jr. Had very little to laugh about. His cause with serious, and he had a great deal of obstructionisdestructiontrying h under way. But there is that picture of him smiling. I mean, and you think of a time you have seen many pictures of him laughing . Host kitty kelley, with the production of these two books, are you out of the unauthorized out of the business . Guest well, i hope not, but they do take a long time. And ive tried to pick figures that truly have had an impact on our culture. And i dont know who there is out there, maybe if we get a first woman president . That would be a wonderful biography to do, ma but i choose them very carefully because they take four years of my life. They are a College Education to the. Host are you working on one now . Guest well, i had hoped to do a book on the women senators, the 20 women in the United States senate, to see if ginger really made a difference. Because this is the first time weve had so many. But i dont know quite how to do that. I wanted to answer the question, does jenna make a difference . Yes, i think so far we see that they are more collegial. They certainly are more supportive of each other. They bind together. They have dinners. But i do know if its only a matter of gender or because they are still a minority in an all male bastion. So kind of put the book aside for the time being. Host did you find similarities between the Kennedy Family and the bush family . Guest yes. I did find similarities. First of all, the obvious ones. The dedication to Public Service. However, the Kennedy Family was unique in that they had a master, a mastermind behind them, and that was ambassador joe kennedy. And there was a driving force because they were Irish Catholic, and we have never had an Irish Catholic president before. It sounds ridiculous to sit here in the year 2013 when this is the majority religion in the country, 51 i think the last poll showed our catholic. But at the time john f. Kennedy ran, not even his church was behind him. And this is why the kennedys have always said the cardinals and bishops are republicans and the nuns are democrat. But joe kennedy was the 10th richest man in america at that time, and he still knew that no matter how much money he had, they wouldnt have that ultimate respectability until they broke through and put an Irish Catholic in office. And he was determined that one of his sons would become that. There wasnt that drive and the bush family. Prescott bush was a moderate republican senator. His son, George Herbert walker bush wanted to be like his father, and so he pursued politics. And then george w. Bush. Host in the family, you write for those who study the fault line, the campaign of 1980 is instructive. Because to dynastic sons chose to challenge their partys front runners and those two presumptive heirs base their candidacies solely on their sense of entitlement. Guest i am fascinated, not just by the study of power, but i am fascinated by the class system in this country. It isnt quite what it is in the united kingdom. It is more unspoken here. We dont night people. We dont place the earls here, the barringer, the dukes. No, but we do. And that kind of upper class, middle class, lower class permeates our society and it fascinates me. Its a form of self entitlement and its a form of discrimination. And i like to see not that i like what im fascinated to see how it plays out. Host in the family you write that the legacy of prescott alcoholism became his destructive to the dynasty as denying its existence was to his immediate failure. Prescott bush alcoholic . Guest and his son, Jonathan Bush, took umbrage when this book came out, as did come in, this came out at a very controversial time. Host 2005 . Guest right. And there was is something to be denounced by the president of the United States, be denounced by the chairman of the Republican National committee, by the press secretary in the white house, by tom delay. Everyone was quite upset by this book, but i remember Jonathan Bush wrote a letter to the editor of the New York Times book review, and my response is that alcoholism is not a disgrace. Its a disease. Host good afternoon and welcome to booktvs in depth program. This is where we spend three hours with one author talking af his or her body of work, and this month its author kitty kelley. Shes the author of several books beginning in 1978 with jackie oh . His way, his way the unauthorized biography of Frank Sinatra, 87. Nancy reagan the unauthorized biography 1992. The royals came out in 1997. The family the real story of the bush dynasty, 2004. Oprah a biography, 2010. And then her two most recent, capturing camelot Stanley Treticks images of the kennedys 2012 come and let freedom ring stanley tericks Iconic Images of the march on washington just came ou