I make keys School Parent listens to graduated them also a professor at the Naval Academy is a great thing to have general Michael Hayden here with us today to a talkedabout his 41 year career in the airforce National Intelligence and National Security area to talk about his book of american intelligence in the age of care. The title is a Sports Metaphor to play to the edge of the field and ended is appropriate general he did reduce the Sports Metaphor to be born in the shadow of the pittsburgh steelers. Factually toward down my home to build three rivers stadium. [laughter] so the Irish Catholic family as part of a welder in as the founder of the steelers in paris this day road on the side of the stadium as equipment manager in doing airforce rotc and dotted is degree in american history. St. Peters Elementary School in north Catholic School figured large in his upbringing and he makes it clear in this very personal memoir, it is education really mattered to him. The further i got in my career so this book has a lot to say about the importance of education at that age and enter standee still get up early on sunday in the fall to drive to pittsburgh to go to the gate and drive home. I do. You must have been capt. With a major Intelligence Community about the behavior of the cia and fbi how would those important. I was in a bomb as a junior officer and with the b52 operation over Southeast Asia i was very tactically focused all these things going on in washington with the stars and stripes i did not dig in and very much but we were talking before we came in and i certainly learned what came out in the 70s because that was the structure that had been decided to govern the american Intelligence Community for it wasnt so much the agencies were breaking the law but more that they had not paid attention to the agencys there was not a clear code to flow back and forth with a clear distinction that we need to have that is so large and powerful. And so now that architecture recited to govern american espionage is now we eroding financial looking insufficient it is one of the things that i suggest and senator church tried to give a summary as a political actor planning to run for president and to make space so low to discuss the nsa he said in the need to develop the capacity will potential enemies are doing United States government has perfected a technological capability to enable us to monitor the messages to go through the air. Talk about how to intercept telegrams. Has got more sophisticated than look abroad that the potential enemies we must know what that capability at any time could be turned around an American People and no american would have any privacy left such as the capability to monitor everything. Baird be no place to hide. Then he says if this ever ever became if the authoritarian never took charge of the technological capacity could enable that because to combine with the resistance of the government is the reach for the government to know such as the capability of this technology i dont want to see that technology go across the bridge to see what they possess under proper supervision so whenever cross over. It sums up the career working at many levels to make sure this technology operated within the law and under proper supervision that we never crossover. So your job is to make sure but the capable Capabilities Group grew. There is a lot to unpacked. For one instance you got what senator church said. That nsa only needed two things to be successful in needed to be secretive and powerful so to live in that culture is secrecy and power. So you have this unnatural position in side of a western democracy but you wonder what nsa can offer but that to is toward the nations adversaries and it has never turned inward against the American People. So to point that over there. So for example, when we were flooding the sown, i will take a specific example of the Strategic Rocket forces of course they have to communicate with soviet asia obi would monitor that network like nobodys business looking for words of interest in the communication like launch. [laughter] and with the civil libertarian or a senator who would ever lift a finger with regard to concerns about that so what happened that by 2000, this is pre 9 11 prior to the terrorist attack with the reshuffling of the balance. I testified in open session and the issue that we had is no one paid attention going after the Strategic Rocket forces network but if you want for us to do for you in the 21st century what we have done in the 20th century, in this case along press soviet union your more concerned about terrorist communication, proliferators communication, proliferators , transnational criminals criminals, if you want us to go get them for you, what we said was you realize those communications no longer exist. They coexist with energy mail. And theyre going to those international pipes so it is even more complex that looking here is a good or looking here is bad. It is coming gold to the things that you want us to go get it is even more difficult than what senator church laid out. We have to go to you to get the money and the authority to go after these signals and the only way we believe we could get that was to convince the congress and you, we would not touch it. This is even more dramatic and more difficult and potentially more dangerous than what senator church tried to put out as a warning signal in the 1970s un command that the usa nsa. It was clear. No cloud in the sky. Watching monday night football. To get a haircut comeback just popped in on the center. Nothing is happening the went to the office and began meeting i had one session my executive assistant said one of the trade centers i thought it must be a small plane how did that happen is a clear day progress back to my meeting then she cavemen the plane hit the other tower in i immediately said get head of security appear then as he comes through one door taken into the other door to say there are reports of explosions of the mall but that was the pentagon chief of security is standing there how does that work i said non all essential to them to evacuate them retry to get everybody could out of the two highrises into that three Story Building that is the Regional Office building for my benefit that is where the center is for all communications and we began to turn this massive enterprise we knew this impending war what do you got . All knew it was all kinda al cana and they were patting themselves on the back. That later that afternoon or early evening someone reminded me that counterterrorism it is also the biggest field station it is 50 percent of the enterprise the other 50 percent is everywhere else. When i say counterterrorism i mean people with headsets you cannot move them. So we had to leave that counterterrorism and then somebody reminded me day are still there. You could well through the windows if we were just eight or nine stories high gear and is part of the American City with that Logistics Force because it would have been obvious with of lights on. So were talking about blackout curtains the danger is different most were arabamerican the have a National Trauma and a professional trauma because they are arabamerican there was a more personal trauma for them given the nature of the attack i did not make speeches ever just walk around and put my hand on theres shoulder. The agency turned on a dime. And then we began to shift we are going over here. We will focus on this target and a very short period of time that have beat been a great value you think why did you do that september 7th . The answer was candidly because we had a variety of priorities and things that were competing for our attention. The icbm worse still there now under russian control. But immediately that Tuesday Morning i distorted to move chips i had no permission one of the great new initiatives was stellar wind that is a cool name for operation cynic and means nothing. [laughter] we call the operation of the c. Dolan. Odyssey don. But stellar went this is what Edward Snowden revealed later. This is the kind of surveillance. Key yes. This is the stuff. This is why it isnt easy. So little after noon susan rice to minimize the u. S. Names i am asking the names dont have to do that now. To suppress the u. S. Identities about that communication to protect the privacy. The lesson becomes critical to the intelligence i simply said when we decide to minimize the names with the communications between afghanistan and the United States of america, with more meaning for word it is always a judgment and nsa is notoriously conservative. And i said i have 3,000 dead countrymen and my headquarters is in that other country. So all a little more for word to make that value judgment. So i would call george tenet that the church right formed those committees is headed is a little different here i am happy to come talk to you the house said explain and i did. So georgann his morning update to say i am doing this and this is pretty soon after and the way george tells the story one more thing mike hayden is going to jail. [laughter] and the Vice President says tell him we have money be will bail him out. [laughter] frankly the president said assiduity was named to the spine it is fine but then president bush says good anything else he could be doing . He said i will ask. He gets back to langley and calls me up if you go to jail they will bail you about the president said is there anything more you could be doing . I said not within my authorities he said not exactly what i asked you. Is there more you could do if you had the authority . Said i will get back to you. With the of lawyers and operations if we had the authority what more could redo . Probably became up with three baskets of stuff for days later i am in the oval if we had the authority this is what we would do there is fine print in the book in a sense we americans were trying to be in full measure liberty security and privacy. Where is the balance . One of the techniques the intelligence with substantial authority intelligence was is foreign domestic much more than it did. Would make london from . Right here. So the challenge was how did you close that gap consciously as a way to ensure we would not overreaching . Slip was three baskets of things to detect a foreign enemy who may be physically in the United States are at least with communications would be in the United States. I briefed congress relaunched october theres a lot in the bill kidd is turbulence we argue with ourselves. I will just pop the chapter to say there were changes but when senator brock obama ran to become president of United States on the platform i am not george bush bassett existed at the end of the bush did ministrations said all wellhead and it was the obama version of the program that Edward Snowden leaked proposal my sense are you sure you were not abusing it . With two president s as fundamentally different as those tarot to say this is the right balance. One of the things that struck me was looking at the information from integration you gathered from the phone bills one of the things you did not do was applied that algorithm with data mining you could in those phone bills to me that it is amazing to show that they were behind at google assets of look for beekeeping stuff than the next time theyre in is why werent you doing that . U. S. Opposed to keep me safe wet. One of the baskets that was publicly known was the american intelligence in the age of terror program that Congress Passed a law section 214 with the Metadata Program for the old folks in here those a dont charge by the call anymore so the company kept the records to get your money. got the permission to do that and we did so we had a massive database physically impossible to get content so either within in the United States or from abroad. I think frank church would have been scared of that. If it were under different circumstances so what we allowed ourselves to do is best explained through example. And beat get some folks with that incriminating documentation so now looks like a very bad man and wonder if this code has ever been in contact with a gap here or gap there, we defend against a foreign attack . So we would do is walk up to the doorway to say anybody talk to this phone . Then the elgar read them would search the nfl and in the bronx would say yes it talk to that every thursday because we have the database to say who do you talk to . On done. That is all we ever did with that. Now steven is referring to Something Different for you can do a lot more i told him before we came here that people were saying what were they doing it is me and keep alexander and eric schmidt from google. So eric comes out to say the metadata des is powerful then he starts to rattle off how global uses it. There are other rhythms, patterns, predict behavior, going on and on and on the with intel he is done and say we dont do that but he is right. We dont do to the data that American Business does. It could yield useful information remember how much you comfortable with . Some much. Guest to give up for a pound of safety . You are free to let google do it to violate your privacy but they cannot put even jail the American Government can so therefore we were quite comfortable. It really starts in an interesting way. So its a narrative its the only part of the memoir that looks like a dialogue were not talking at about time or place or dates or even who the actors are. It goes our you sure theyre there. The one he will make the decision as. We have good human intelligence and we been tracking the streaming video they are confirming its them. Theyre there. How long had you have capture the target and who else is the run. A couple of hours. The family over here in the Main Building guys we want there in the big guesthouse here. They are not very far apart. Far enough. And there is another outbuilding over here is small and in the past weve seen al qaeda people use it when they stop here. We are here a lot and so are they its a really dirty compound. Anyone in a little building now, dont know probably not. We have not seen anyone since the predator got captured at the target. What is the pk the probability of kill on the gpu 12. The guys are dead we think the family is okay. You think theyre okay. Remember they are reasonably close. I should be we have done the bunk splat. Its a reference we have do what are the physics of that bomb hitting that. And what you come out with is a splotch of red, yellow and green which is not concentric because of the physic of the target so guess what it looks like. It looks like a bug splat. Weve done the bug splat but you can never be sure so what it has looked like with a couple of hellfires. 20 pounds versus 500. All of the energy away from the family quarters the family quarters are fine. If we hit the right room in the guest house we will get all of the bad guys but these internal walls they can be thick and if you dont hit the right room or one of them is up taking a piss, theres a long pause in the room use the hellfires. The way you said. They leave the room in route with that message. There is another long pause. Tell me about these guys again. They go through the history and the names we had been trying to track them forever. They are really careful they are involved in homeland plotting. They sure as hell has a track record. Use the gpu. Another senior operator jumps from the table. That small building over there you say sometimes they use as a dorm. After it hits if they come out kill them. Less than an hour later the decisionmakers is briefed again. Two targets are dead. There is no damage to the family quarters they were pretty upset. No one came out of the small building. We did not hit it. Thanks. That is the burden that people who operate on your behalf except in order to make the kinds of decisions that the hope and pray reflect your values. That they are representative the line i use dont think of them as alien beings. You probably know a lot of them. They dont have a different value system. They are required with the circumstances you will most certainly never face and very likely will never learn about. Thats why i wrote it that way. As we go through things that i think concern all of us and we start with surveillance of fallen metadata. We passed over internet and content surveillance im pretty sure it will come up in the question and answer. There is also targeted killing. Your 12th chapter. Those are traits that i despise. You describe how you revise practices to rule out certain methods. You get the impression that i have that. So i started the Surveillance Program that chapter i just read the beginning to talks about how the cia pushed president bush to ratchet up the targeted killing program. They put their arm around that program as well. I started the Surveillance Program i certainly try to provide the target program. This is the cia black site stuff. It was right in the middle of the room. We have to do something about this program. I spent the summer of six tried to learn about it. I was prepared to start with the National Security advisor. Fifty make some changes. And this is not my being judgmental about what my predecessor had done. They have their circumstances i had mine. By 2006 we have more penetrations of al qaeda. We knew mor