Transcripts For CSPAN2 False Black Power 20170716

[inaudible conversations] if i can have your attention please we will get started. Thank you everyone. I am pleased that you are okay. I am the president of the Manhattan Institute. [applause] thank you. It is a pleasure for me to introduce jason riley today. As most of you know jason is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. A regular columnist for the wall street journal and a commentator for fox news. In his new book, false black power . , jason office critique of civil rights leaders and their prioritization of pure political power. Which he argues has failed to produce significant results for africanamericans. The book also includes responses to jasons arguments from two leading black intellectuals. It is a slender book. But it packs a powerful punch. As one blogger noted, what makes the book shine is the clarity of its logic and accessibility of his writing style. Just as fred astaire made it look easy to dance, so does riley express his mastery through elegance so natural that it seems effortless. [laughter] how did you get to write this . [clapping] all right they go. And it is available for just 10. Six dollars on kindle. Jason may not get rich with the book but hopefully he will open a few minds. Please join me in welcoming the fearless and the jason riley. [applause] thank you for that, very kind introduction larry. Im glad that you told a few jokes. I was going to start with a joke. About cspan and then i found out that they were covering the event so my wife told me it wasnt a good idea. Thats really all i had so thank you. Thank you larry. False black power. What am i talking about . In a nutshell, what i am saying is that barack obama needed black voters far more than black voters needed barack obama. It is not a personal attack on the former president. You can substitute in the name of any black politician and statement would still hold true. That is what im trying to get at in this book. It started out as the column. It grew into a longer essay and then eventually the short book that was recently published. But my intention was to make a fairly simple point which is that political activity is not the most effective way of advancing a book economically. Racial or ethnic books political success is not automatically lead to economic success. One does not flow naturally from the other. It is hardly an original observation. I think it is an important one that is regularly ignored by the civil rights leaders and black political leaders who practice identity politics. Urging blacks to vote, favoring candidates of their own racial or ethnic background and so forth. I thought that the end of the Obama Presidency was especially good time to reiterate the limits of this strategy. Which has been in place for more than 50 years now. Since the 1960s, black leaders really prioritize the integration of political institutions. And they have had a great deal of success in doing this. On their own terms. By the early 1980s major us cities with large black populations cleveland, detroit, chicago, washington, philadelphia had elected black mayors. Between 1970 and 2010. The number of black elected officials from fewer than 1500 to more than 10,000 in this country. Including the black president. And resort black police chiefs, school superintendents, councilmembers and state legislatures. Racially gerrymandered voting districts were created to ensure the election in congress and so forth. And all this political clout has never really paid up economically. For the black poor which is what we were told would happen. You look and how the black underclass there in detroit, or marionberrys washington d. C. Or jamess new work. In my Manhattan Institute colleague fred segal has noted, the black mayors created these unbeatable political machines in the name of helping the poor yet the poor became even more impoverished on their watch. Mississippi has long had more black elected officials and yet it has the highest black poverty rates in the country. Derby case studies of places like atlanta. In the 1970s and 80s for example wearing the black mayors city limited policies for hiring black city workers and black contractors. What happened . Well of blackness places became better off. Average income blacks were left behind. In the black poor actually lost ground. And that has been the story nationwide. In an era of increasing black political clout, not to mention affirmative action. The black underclass has lost ground in absolute terms and relative in the white underclass. In the 80s and 90s the poorest 20 percent of blacks saw their incomes decline at more than double the rate than the whites. This history i think should have served to temper expectations for the first black president. Without taking anything from Barack Obamas historic accomplishment. The countrys widespread sense of pride and the racial progress that the election symbolized. The reality is that there was little reason to believe that a black president was the answer to racial inequalities for the problems of the black four. I think the expectations were set way too high on the racial front and on other fronts. An article in the New York Times which counted as a failure, the obama administrations inability to and racial or two and income inequality. And i said wow he was supposed to do that . The expectations i think just off the charts and what they would be able to do. And china gas and household incomes, poverty, homeownership and other measures all widened during obamas term in office. The job situation for blacks did improve towards the end of his second term. But blacks did not see their average Unemployment Rate falls below double digits until the third month of obamas seventh year in office. So now we have more evidence that proliferation of black politicians in recent decades should now include the choice elected black president and has done little to narrow racial gaps in employment and income and academic achievement in other areas. This is not to say of course that blacks just out of politics and should stay out of office. Or not engage politically. That is not what i am saying. What im questioning is whether gaining political influence should continue to play such a central role in the strategy of black leaders when it comes to advancing black economic status or whether shift focus should be on other areas. That is because most groups in america and elsewhere who have risen economically, have done so with little or no political influence. Groups that have enjoyed success have tended to rise more slowly. Its not that you cannot take the political route, you can. But chances are you will rise more slowly than you would taking of the roots. Germans, jews, italians, asians are among those that such economic gains proceed political gains in america. It is a pattern you also see International Good Ethnic Chinese and southeast asia. The english in argentina, jews in britain among other examples. All prospered economically while mostly shunning politics. Even if a group have the ability they didnt always choose to do so. German immigrants in the us. In colonial times were not lacking in numbers. In fact, there was so many of them that Benjamin Franklin was complaining about how many there were in pennsylvania as far back as the 1750s. Is it western pennsylvania founded by the english, become a colony of aliens who will surely become so numerous to german eyes us instead of us and defying them . Nevertheless, germans many of whom arrived and focus initially on paying at the cost of the voyage had other priorities. And were wellknown for avoiding politics. It is a trick they brought with them to this country because we know that german immigrants anywhere from australia to brazil follow the same pattern physically shunning politics and establishing themselves economically first. Germans began entering politics only after they had risen economically. A counter example, and the example that blacks had followed most closely would be the irish. Rose from poverty. His rise from poverty came especially slow given that you have these irish political organizations in places like boston and philadelphia and new york. Who were dominating local governments. The irish and more political success in the us than any other ethnic group historically after they arrived. He of the irish that were the slowest rising of all european immigrants to america. The political power of a relatively small number of average elected officials have little impact on the economic progress of most irishamericans. In fact, it was not until the political machines started to decline in influence that we saw the swelling of the irish middle class. To the point where today average irish income and Educational Attainment and so forth all exceed national average. Viewed against this history, many blacks were expecting obama tended to deliver more. The black experience in america i should add, is of course different from the irish experience which is different from the chinese, german or jewish experience. And we cannot generalize about the black experience here they have patterns that differ from blacks in the west indies or other places. But that does not mean that because we cannot make perfect apples to apples comparisons, that we have nothing to learn of what other cribs experience so that no comparisons can be made. Many different racial and ethnic minority groups have various degrees of hardship in the us and other countries all over the world. I think how those groups have dealt with the circumstances is something to study closely and draw lessons from. One of the clear lessons from this history is also the human capital. They saw skills and knowledge that create economic value have proven to be far more important than Political Capital and getting ahead. A racial or ethnic groups culture, attitudes and habits, values matter much more than electing people that look like you. And that is reality, it helps to explain why black spared the way they did not only the obama era but also in the preceding decades. Prior to the 1950s in the first half of the 20th century when blacks were more focused on their more human capital. These are racial gaps narrowing and incomes, Educational Attainment, representation. And elsewhere. And blessed by not only making gains in absolute terms they were also gaining on the whites. Progress was slow but it was happening. Yet in the wake of this the black leadership shift to pursuing more fervently in political power. So the previous gains slow. They would stone some cases. And obamas election was the end product of his civil rights strategy that would strategize political power, false power in my view. To advance blacks and eight years later we once again learned the limits of that strategy. I will stop there and take questions. Thank you. [applause] [inaudible] [inaudible question] about how blacks can rise from poverty . Lacks well, i think the differences in the strategy between the boys in washington have been separated over the decades. The more similarities i think booker t. Washington did not reject civil rights or the importance of advancing using the political system here to advance the race. And the boys didnt reject the type of learning that booker t. Washington wanted to focus on. But you do see something that blossomed in the postcivil rights. When it came to the choices someone like Martin Luther king jr. Wanted to make and places that more militant blacks wanted to go. But the real difference i think between the old School Leadership and todays leadership, there is also a mindset that is brought. I think everyone from king to the boys in washington, and the naacp in early years were focused, their idea was that racism was a constant here. Youre going to have to see, the shift in attitude came the 20th century. With the attitude became, we must see racism vanquished from america for blacks to be held responsible for their own destiny. And that mindset is what has one won the day. It is that victim mindset that they were encouraged to adopt and that political leaders play off of endlessly. I think that is also hampered progress. Okay. I have two questions. To what extent if any would you specifically state that the political clout is counterproductive to the advancement of blacks . And i was intrigued to learn that there is a critical essay in your book to what extent is for example different from your view and how much you might differ . On the first question, i think what tends to happen when you get a black leader who wants to play in politics they become a politician and that takes precedence busy can take education for example. School choice is hugely popular in the black community. Particularly among the black poor. The pulls off the charts. Barack obama gets in office and tries to shut down School Option programs in dc. Tries to shut down a School Option program in louisiana. Why . Not because these programs are not popular. Not in demand. The Charter School waitlist is hundreds of thousands. Many of them are minorities. He tries to shut it down because he has a political need to satisfy some people to help him get elected. And in the teachers use it doesnt like School Choice so he decides to do their bidding instead of doing is ethnic voting block that played a large role in electing him. So he became a politician. And that i think is how you can get political clout can backfire on the group. Really focused on blaming social pathologies in the ghetto on the absence of factory jobs. And that thats what led to the current state of affairs. And that he thought i should have done more to talk about that in the book. And i think its a fair point, and people like William Julius wilson have been making this point for decades. I dont buy the argument. I think they get the sequence wrong when they say that. In other words, you know, the social breakdown in the 1960s in inner cities preceded the flight of jobs. Detroit didnt riot after the factory jobs left; the riots came first. And so i think thats my problem with that deindustrialization argument that some have made. But that was some of what john was criticizing about the book. But by and large, he liked it. [laughter] other questions . All right. Right here. Please if youre in the back, make sure you raise your hand so that i can see you, okay . Go ahead. Want to thank you for your enlightening comments. I enjoy reading your op p oped and your prior book. My question to you is a more personal one. Id be interested in the reactions that you get, receive in the black community to your work. Well, it depends on realizing that, of course, thats not monolithic. Well, that is the point. I mean, it really depends on who youre talking about in the black community. If youre talking to a clergyman or church goers sitting in pews, whether youre at an hbcu talking to students or whether youre at wellesley talking to members of the black Student Union there, youre going to get three really different reactions. So it really does just depend on the audience, i would say. [inaudible] again, it depends. If you are speaking to people sympathetic to the naacps point of view and their methods of trying to help blacks, then youre going to get a negative response. Because a lot of what i write about makes a lot of what the naacp is talking about irrelevant. Perhaps even its existence today irrelevance. If the problems facing blacks today are not primarily racial barriers or racism per se, then theres not much use for an organization like that to continue saying the things they want to say. And to the extent that theyre going to be out there advocating against, say, Charter Schools which they recently did theyre doing more harm than good. Theyre not just being different, theyre actually doing harm. So its going to vary. Its going to vary. Okay. I just want to make sure okay. Michael . Michael goodwin . Thank you, jason. A question about president obama. Your comments about bloc voting and the example with the Teachers Union, i think, is well said because the feeling, i suspect, he had in his campaign was where are they going to go, right . The black voters who elected me are going to stay with me. The Teachers Union might stray. And a number of nonwhite people have made the point that after the obama years, there will then be this awakening that black power is not all its cracked up to be, that politically there must be other ways. What do you think that the republicans, independents need to do to attract black voters so that they can have better integrated parties and that the country as a whole can be less divide racially . I think they just, they need to show up in these neighborhoods and introduce themselves. Theyve largely written off this vote for many, many years. Now, you can quibble over why that is, whether you think its deepseeded racism or some other factor. But its political expediency, you know . They didnt need this vote to win. And some in the party a may look at trumps success and go we still dont need this vote to win. I mean, a lot of people in my camp over the years were saying the gop has got to attract more hispanics, the countrys diversifying, they wont be able to win national elections. Trump proved everyone wrong on that front. Theres an argument that he, that he proved everyone wrong. I think id still push back a little bit. But i think be republican candidates if republican candidates want to do better among black voters, they need to spend more time in black communities. They need to go to barbershops and grocery stores. They need to run political ads on black radio stations and doing shows on television that black people watch or web sites that they visit. I havent seen that kind of concerted effort. You see it from time to time among individual candidates. Chris christie did it in new jersey when he got reelected in 2013, went into camden, went into some of these cities and did quite well with the black vote in his reelection. In the past youve seen people like richard rear done out in l. A. Do pretty well. Stephen goldsmith in indianapolis. You see it here. Paul ryan is someone whos traveled the country with people like bob wilson, a Community Leader whos been around for a long time, visited these neighborhoods, talked to them in the sort of jack kemp mode. Rand paul has gone to black colleges and given speeches. I think those are good. But i think you need a much larger effort on the part of the party. And i think the party, if you remember that autopsy report after romney lost, the party said, you know, this is what we need to do going forward. And then you had this, you know, political earthquake with trump come along, and it all sort of went out the window. Okay. A question back there. To what degree do you think there is a role for the black elite in the private sector to try to mobilize the black community to, you know, get a recognition of your view and to, you know, disseminate that message . Theres a role. I mean, it depends, you know, many members of these elite that elite group, i think, have become convinced that it is the government that put them in the position they are in today. In other words, ive spoken to groups of black professionals, black 1 ers who are convinced but for racial preferences, their class of blacks would not exist. So you are still fighting a mindset there that the Democratic Party has done a brilliant job of pushing onto black america. Not just encouraging dependence among low income black, but even upper and middle class blacks have this dependent mindset that we wouldnt be where we are but for big government. And so it is a challenge. It is a challenge. Over there. Theres one question over here, right . Okay. [inaudible] Charles Murray wrote in the 80s about the impact of welfare on the progress of the poor, and then later in the 90s about the impact of family disintegration. If you look at the situation as it is right now, have you thought about what could we do policy wise so that the black or poor at least resume the kind of progress they made in the 50s and early 60s . Well, i think its from a government policy perspective, its a question of what id like to see the government stop doing. Its not that a new Program Needs to come along, its stop doing things that we know dont work. So if we have welfare programs or government assistance programs that used to be safety nets but now theyve become lures and traps for blacks who spend generation after generation on government dependency, we need to think about the incentives that have been put in place regarding work. If we have kids trapped in failing schools, let the school mod to els that we know models that we know work proliferate. Stop capping their growth. If we know that we have a lot of budding entrepreneurs in brooklyn or up in harlem who want to start their own Chimney Service or hairbraiding store, cut the red tape. Ing eliminate these occupational licensing requirements that hamper the growth of black businesses. So theres things i think that government can do to play a role. Mostly involves, i think, revisiting some of the programs that are out there, some of the policies that have been tried and taking more humble approach going forward. Okay. Well, one more question, then well wrap it up. Ed hoffman. Jason, you may recall that Ronald Reagan got in trouble for going beyond what you said. He said that some of the people who are black leaders actually want the situation to remain bad or even get worse, because without the anger and resentment, you know, theyre out of a job. So did reagan go too far in suggesting that any leaders have a vested interest in keeping the situation ass it is . And as it is . And secondly, are setaside programs good or bad . I mean, the theory behind them is people, minorities and women, get their foot in the door for the first time, and they can take frit there. So would you keep or do away with setaside programs . Oh, i dont think thats the history of setaside programs. I think the history of setaside programs is that welloff blacks become better off. If you look at these case studies in places like atlanta where they put in place setaside programs for black businesses or city contractors and so forth, thats what happened. The idea that these programs are being used to lift the poor, i think, is a myth. Theyre sold that way, but thats not how they play out in practice. In terms of the incentives of black leaders, yes, i mean, theres some truth to that, that black leaders gain or benefit politically by keeping blacks riled up, angry, racially paranoid and so forth. I think thats part of the reason why you saw in obama indulling a group like black indulge a group like black lives matter. It was politically useful for him to do that even if he knows that cops are not driving, you know, Police Shootings are not driving the black homicide rate in this country. It was still politically useful or expedient for him to wink at this group and say, okay. You know, you have some points here, and i think we can that he wasnt going to shut them down and call it the nonsense that it is. But, so yeah. I think theres system truth in that. Some truth in that. I wouldnt take the argument too far. I mean, i dont think, i dont want to, you know, psychoanalyze these folks and say i think that these, many of these groups, many of the people on the black left are trying to help in the ways they think work. And i think many of them are sincere this thinking that more in thinking that more government will help blacks. And so they push the government policies, and they believe that. Or they believe that until, you know, racism has been eliminated it can serve as an allpurpose explanation for all that ails black america. They may believe that. I dont think its true, but im not going to sort of put them on the couch and say they dont really believe this, theyre just pushing it for this reason. One final note, were going to be doing a conference with jason in the fall which will elaborate on many of the themes that were discussed today. But in the meantime, i wish him very good luck with this book and thank you all for coming. Thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] youre watching booktv, television for serious readers. You can watch any program you see here online at booktv. Org. Wonderful. Well, thank you, everyone. And welcome to tonights program. We are very pleased to have joining us this evening zeynep tufekci, a contributing opinion writer at the New York Times as well as an assistant professor in the school of information and Library Science at the university of north carolina,