Transcripts For CSPAN2 Ernie Suggs The Many Lives Of Andrew Young 20221017

By way of quick introduction or not so quick introduction because, its quite the impressive bio journalists and author ernie suggs has been a reporter for the Atlanta Journal constitution since 1997, currently covering a variety of breaking news and investigative stories for page a1. He previously reported for newspapers new york city and durham, North Carolina. Hes a veteran of more than 20 years as a newspaper reporter and has covered stories ranging from politics to civil rights to Higher Education. A 1990 graduate of North Carolina university with a degree in english i have one of those to look at us both employed is my eagle pen writing well very nice yes huh. Ernie also a Harvard University nieman fellow. He is currently on the nieman board of trustees and. Hes the former Vice President of the National Association of black journalists. So please join me in welcoming suggs everybody. Thank you. Were probably going to spend most of our time talking about the subject. The book global citizen, andrew young. And this is a beautiful book for those of you who hadnt had a chance to to see it. But i want to start our conversation by talking a little bit about you, ernie, and sort of getting to how you got to be the chronicler of of the ambassador. So as i mentioned in your bio, you arrive in atlanta about 25, 26 years ago at a time when a number of the pantheon civil rights leaders were still actively involved in the city. So can you talk a little bit about what it was like for you as a reporter as a as a newspaper guy coming into town at that moment . Well, i came to atlanta. I moved to atlanta in 97, the year after the olympics. Okay. The paper didnt hire me during the olympics. I suffered beef with them on that. But i came in 1997, and i look at ive always talked about it as kind of like walked into i walked into what i consider the second second set of Founding Fathers was still living atlanta. So i moved to atlanta and john lewis was there. Ktb he was there, Hosea Williams was there. James orange was there whose daughter just passed away. This i just found out just recently, coretta king was there. All of the king children were there and andrew young. So i was there as a young reporter covering these people. I still remember vividly the first time i actually met scott king, and i still is still like this, i cant believe i met. You know, i was just sitting this close to home when we met. And so i was able, you know, my first job was covering. I was like knight cops, you know, being a newspaper reporter at a large newspaper, my first job was night cops. But i eventually became the race reporter or the urban affairs reporter. Now, you know, in covering civil rights. So i was covering all these people that ive read about and and watch documentaries about all life and just covering them. So i always say, you know, people always ask me, you know, how i get to write Andrew Youngs book. I tell them, ive been writing it for 25 years because ive always kind of known his life. Ive always kind of chronicled his life post, civil rights post and mayor and. Unfortunately, in 2000 and in my you know as a as a writer and as a journalist, ive always to write a book. Every journalist wants write a book. So, you know, in 2020, wed lost john lewis, c. T. Vivian and joe lowery. Within three months of each other. And john lewis, our city, vivian and joe lowery, have been men that i approached previously to, hey, lets sit down and write a book. Lets consider writing a book. Jill i wrote his own book. Keep vivian was writing his last book when he died. So when they died, you know, i felt that, you know, andrew young, was the logical step. The logical person for me to approach, to write a book. And his birthday was coming up. His birthday is march 12th of this year. He turned 90 years old. So it was a Perfect Timing for me to write to found a subject to write about and for a subject whos willing to sit down and have his story chronicled and understanding the importance of having his story chronicled as he was approaching 90 years old. He talks about he talks about as touring the country, promoting the book and talking about the book that he wrote his book and easy burden in 1995. And thats the biography is a thick biography. We all weve all read these thick biographies and he says that this book and not because i wrote it but he says that this book is better because its a illustrated account of his life as well as the written word so his grandchildren can pick it up, people can put it on this literally coffee table books. They can put it on a coffee table and read it, put it down, pick it up. You know, the next day, a week later, pick up or read another chapter. And its something thats easily accessible. And it kind of tells a story in two ways. And the written word and the visual, it does so beautifully too. And i think that speaks to, to your credit, a journalist as a as a whos in the business of concise that it comes alive the page. And in these very digestible ways. But as you say it is it is a highly visual book as well. And as we were talking about just minutes when i saw it for the first time, i thought this would make a great Museum Exhibit and apparently im not the only person to have that thought because it exists in that format as well. Would you mention that just briefly. Yeah, its we have a museum in atlanta called the millennium gate museum. Its about 15 years old. It looks like the arc de triomphe in paris. So a lot of people dont even realize a museum on 17th street. So for those of you from atlanta and, its a beautiful exhibit. Its basically, you know, the pages of the book that have been theyve been repurposed into a museum, into a Museum Exhibit. So the three lower rooms on the first floor of the museum housed the housed the exhibit. And we also have recreated Andrew Youngs office a lot of his personal artifacts are there, like his emmys, you know, trophies and art, you know. But the i think the most important thing, just all the visuals, all the photographs are on the wall, all the portraits on the wall that beat that that kind of recap kind of give you a cliffsnotes of the book and kind of recaps his life, you know, you can kind of just kind of walk through his life. And you mentioned the pen center in south carolina. We are moving the exhibit. Theres been the exhibit has been on display in atlanta since march, but were going to move it in november to the pen center in south. Then were going to move it to North Carolina in my home state. So very proud of the whole fact that we were able to kind of carry his story forth throughout the south you know, in the exhibit, it seems like going to have multiple lives in the same way that the ambassador lives. So thats a nice parallel. Lives, many lives. Thank you for the correction. Appreciate that. Well, lets build on that first second thing, because im how someone whos been been covering this subject for 25 years would encapsulate it would distill down what ultimately is the historical importance of young why does he deserve a book an exhibit of this kind for who perhaps is not yet immersed in that story in that chronicle who is man. Well, i think when you look at the books title, the many lives of andrew young, he has many lives. I mean, i approached him. I met him in 1995. I had just recently graduated from college and. He came in town for a book tour or a book in durham, north london, for an easy burn. By then. He had already been mayor of atlanta. He already been a civil rights leader. Hed already been an ambassador. And my interest duction to him came in 1976, 1976, 77, when i was a child and jimmy carter was president and i was a big fan of jimmy carter. He was like first president that i knew. And being a child of curiosity and in the seventies when you were looking for a role looking for black role models, the fact that andrew young was the first black u. N. Ambassador to the United States wasnt something that was significant. Me so i was introduced to him as the u. N. Ambassador, not as a civil rights issue. I didnt realize he was a civil rights leader. So afterwards so when you talk about the many lives of andrew young, you look at the fact that this heres a man who grew up and segregated new orleans. He went to Howard University one of the premier you colleges in the country he he doesnt like to say black colleges but one of the premier colleges in the country he left that to become a pastor of a small church in georgia. He left that to move to new to to do Ministry Work for an organization that hed moved to georgia in 1962 working model with the king jr he left that at the mouth of the kings assassination to run for congress where he was in the first class of black congress. Congressmen and women from the south since reconstruction. And he left that to become a un ambassador. He left that to become the mayor of atlanta. He left that while he was the mayor of atlanta. He brought the olympic to the United States or brought the olympics atlanta, which is something that no could have ever foreseen. And now he runs a foundation. So he has these many lives and it looks, you know, the thing thats interesting about him is that its as if, you know, every decade he of reinvents himself and he looks back. But he doesnt really look back if. You pick out, you know, if you pick a part of his life and a hat and you pick out mayor of atlanta. Yeah, theres a whole book in that. Theres a whole book on being a u. N. Ambassador so i wanted in the book to kind of distill all of these different aspects of his into one easily readable book. I think thats the challenge that you gave yourself and succeeded at so well because as you say, there really is a book length study to be written on any these positions that hes held and there are so many the course of 90 years and for for a man of that age to still be as active as he is through his foundation, not just here locally, but internationally, hes out of country today, in fact, doing whatever calling is has led him to do. And i want to talk a little bit about, you know, how how he interprets how he prioritizes those those elements when hes asked to do that. But in a couple of interviews about this book ive seen him do, he keeps talking about his blessed life. And thats a he uses in the book as well. But also his accidental life that these werent necessarily positions that he saw actively time time again. And he tells a great story about how and why he came to to run for congress, that these werent things that he necessarily thought he would be doing. But somebody needed to do it. And there he was. So would you talk a little bit about about that aspect, about the accidental or the blessed aspect, the accidental life of andrew young . And i think its part of him being humble as well toward end of Martin Luther kings life. And as you know, he was a key lieutenant from all king jr. Hes right here in right down the road. Im not sure how far we are from memphis, but, you know, he was there when when dr. King was killed. But one of the things that dr. King talked about in the last few years of his life was how were going to move the Movement Forward. And one of the way to move the Movement Forward was through politics and to for for black leaders to emerge, to run for office, whether theyre running for mayor, you know that was in the late 1960s. We saw the first generation of black mayors in. And in major cities like cleveland in later in atlanta places like that but also to run for congress to run for you know higher offices state of statewide Offices National offices. So that was kind of a logical step. And the moment the king died and, you know, everybody is kind of looking for their own path to a lot of people suggest that, hey andy, why dont you run for congress . And he was had had to be convinced by people like Harry Belafonte and Sidney Poitier and lena horne, people who were still in the Civil Rights Movement, who were in the Civil Rights Movement helping out. But they also kind of saw that, hey, we need to move forward. And by moving, we can we can we can establish ourselves in a different way. We can be a different kind of leader. And, you know, andy was like, maybe julian bond should run. You know, were talking about atlanta or talking about georgia, maybe bond should run or maybe someone else run. They said, no, we want you to run. So thats when you talk about the accidental life of, you know, one of the accidental aspects of his life is that he did not necessarily want to run for congress. He did not necessarily want to run for mayor of atlanta. He was you know, theres a great story in the book about this old black woman who who basically cursed him out because she said, you know, you came here in atlanta in 1960, 1961, you were nothing. We made you who you are. We sent you to congress and now we want you to run for mayor. You act like you dont want to do it. So kind of shamed him into running for mayor, as you know, became the second black mayor of the city of atlanta. I love that story because his response to her is Martin Luther king jr me. And she says, yeah, we made him too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Atlanta has a very strong, powerful black community. So yeah, they made me feel so well. I want to veer off topic just for a second here because you you mentioned something in in the ambassadors past that i think kind of parallels things that are happening right now or perhaps dont you as as a writer of contemporary atlanta may be able to speak to this . Or rather, do you see that same sort of thing happening, the black lives movement, where the next logical is to take positions of, power to run for office, to go from being a protester and an activist to being a leader in in a legislative or civil position. I do think its its i do think its its an ever evolving position that we are in as were still continuing to kind of find our way and were still continuing to kind of put out progressive options and progressive as this become a political term, but put strong, smart people who are running for office, you know, in atlanta, we have Raphael Warnock and Stacey Abrams and for fairness, herschel walker. So we do have we are seeing a spate of great young politicians who came out of black colleges, stacey and raphael out of black colleges, spelman and morehouse. Yeah. You know, corey bush and illinois and missouri. So we do. We are that. And shes a perfect example of someone who came out of the black lives matter movement. Lucy mcbath came out of the black lives movement in a that her son was killed her you know, her son, jordan davis, was killed. So she took that as a baton to run for office. So were seeing people enter office and take a different path. But i think they still built on the foundation that was kind of set in the 1960s that we if were going to make a difference in the country, if were going to make a difference in our lives and communities, that we have to be represented, have to be a representative voice at the table if youre not representing a voice at the table, then you know nothings going to change. Or the changes that are going to be made are not going to have an impact on you. Positive. So, you know, so thats what leads. Andrew young into congress a sort of similar that were maybe experiencing again now but lets talk about what leads him out of congress as. Well his relationship with president carter, his work as a united ambassador. What his relationship with carter like it was. Its a really great relationship. Now. Yeah i was that president carters 75th wedding anniversary last year and andrew young was one of the honored guests. You know, and their relationship while andrew young was in the nations was was good as. Well, but one of the things about andrew young and ive talked about it in the book and ive talked it on tour, is that andrew young isnt afraid to say what he wants to say and do what he wants to do. So sometimes i can get you in trouble. One of the Great Stories and i dont have this in the book is my favorite tv show when i was growing up was good times and our kind of were every line of every show. And there was one episode in which and this is again, 1974 and they were talking about something. And michael, whos a young militant in a family, is like, im going to speak mind. Just like andrew young speaks his mind. And it was just like this of random, you, andrew young in 1974, talking how how he speaks his mind. And andrew young as a United Nations spoke his mind. He got a lot done. But he also he did things unconventionally, you know, he spoke to countries and leaders and countries that that i wouldnt say president carter didnt want him to talk to. You know, president carters people werent necessarily it didnt necessarily im talking to or he was overstepping his bounds in certain ways. So, you know, technically, you know, he got fired from the u. N. , from the united i mean, president carter wasnt reelected. So he wasnt to write. Interesting long term as u. N. Ambassador, but he got basically fired. So that was a blow to him. But you know, again, hes a person whos able to kind of reinvent himself and, kind of rebound. And, you know, he came back to atlanta, broke it, didnt have any money, you know, and daughters about to go to college. So he had to kind of reinvent himself. Was he going to go on business . Was he going to travel and kind of settled into the mayor . So hes hes always able to kind of like land and land very well. Yeah. Yeah. Hes very candid about that moment in the book, too. I remember that story very specifically where hes considering, you know, what the mayor salary is and what thats not going to pay to send kids to college. And yet somebody needs to do this. And now hes back in atlanta. Yeah, but that thats probably the part of the story that is most interesting to me because thats where if you dont know the full context of the life, the career trajectory doesnt make sense to go from having an internationally position to being mayor of, a town that on that point was really in a difficult spot. Yeah, but also kind of i dont mean to cut you off, but it also kind of everything builds upon itself. His. Is the things he learned as a u. N. Ambassador impacted how he ran the city of atlanta. You know, the contacts made the fact that he saw he moved to atlanta in 1960 and 61 and he tells a great story and i hope i kind of ramble on, but the first time he came to l. A. Was i think it was 19. And some of my dates are kind messed up. But he came to atlanta in 1948, and he at the butler street ymca, which is on auburn avenue. And if youve ever been to atlanta, auburn avenue, this great black one, it was once called the richest street in the world, and it has the polished ymca, which is where people it was the black ymca. He came there to stay at the ymca in 1948. And the klan actually marched down auburn avenue, which is the richest black city, richest black street in the world, as a show of intimidation. He comes back later on and driving through atlanta probably in 1950 or the mid 1950s, hes driving through atlanta and he sees a rat walking down possibly elm street and he slows down because he says that he doesnt want to hit the rat because rats have more and more respect in atlanta, georgia, than a black man. He didnt want to get in trouble for running over a rat. So the fact that he can move to atlanta. Work with Martin Luther king jr representing in congress, then become the mayor of the city within 20 years is a remarkable in and of itself. And the fact that he saw in atlanta that he knew it could be an International City he knew it could be a city that, wasnt, you know, birmingham it wasnt little rock, not even, you know, nashville, that there was Something Different about atlanta with the airport with the businesses that were there. But this was this thing that they call the atlanta way where how blacks and whites have kind of come to an agreement that because of business relationships and because of whats going on with Higher Education in and in the schools there, that we can Work Together if we kind of put our minds to it. He saw that and the fact that he was able to bring bring the olympics into, you know 30 years after he moved to atlanta and was scared to run over a rat, says something about what he was to pick up how hes able to kind of use those skills you learn as a u. N. Ambassador to kind of woo Different Countries and to woo to come to atlanta for the olympics to kind of like bring money. And, you know, lana has the Busiest Airport in the world, the has, you know, several fortune 500 companies, right. In atlanta, the biggest building in atlanta. When he moved here, you cant even see it now because. Theres so much you know. Yeah, its grown, you know, theres i talked to his daughter. She said when he drive around the city, hes just he has this big smile on his face because a lot of that is what hes he is a lot of what we see now is what he was to plant the seeds that he was able to plant. Its a remarkable legacy. And it does take someone with a Global Vision to do it as well as he did. And as quickly as he did, too. Yeah. When ive seen you do interviews together. He talks about that you know of the many lives of andrew young that seems to be the one that he wants to focus on that he feels closest to his own sense of who he is as a human being. But im really curious for a little deeper dive, the olympic story as well, because hes so often points to that as sort of the quintessential andrew young Success Story for for those sort of unfamiliar with the concept and the history of this very rarely do cities make money when they host the olympics. You sort of do this for the goodwill. But he did the opposite. He did it in a way that ultimately was profitable for atlanta long term, not just during during the event itself. So when he was approached, we talked about him in. No, though, when he was approached about the possibility of atlanta, the olympics, everybody on his staff said it was crazy idea. Shirley franklin, who became first female, first woman mayor of atlanta several years later, was his chief of staff and a very brilliant woman. She said, this is a crazy idea. Were to go broke. And if you think about the 1996 olympics, do well. But some by the time the pitch was made in the mid 1980s, you know, you think about montreal in 1976, you think about other major cities that held the olympics. They were all broke. The basically left them broke the only olympics that made money. Recent note was los angeles 1984. So he of took he kind of took advice from mayor bradley in los angeles as to how a city can host an olympics and make money and not necessarily make money because it wasnt you know he didnt see it as a moneymaking venture but not lose money which is very important because you know the olympics coming to montreal is perfect example. They come to town, they build these buildings and then the olympics are gone and the cities are left with all these white elephants. Yeah, he didnt want that. So basically he talks about it all the time that you know wall street paid for the olympics. Wall street paid for atlantas airport because he was able to kind of leverage those relationships, leveraged businesses convince businesses, convince Foreign Countries to kind of invest in atlanta, to build stadiums and to to to reduce and to expand the airport all of this stuff is is taxpayers pay no money for the olympics nor the airport in atlanta and thats you know, thats his Lasting Legacy as he sees it. Thats what hes like. You thats what hes very proud of. The fact that atlanta didnt go broke. And we hosted the centennial olympics. Mm hmm. And it got value of it. That continues to be valuable to this. I mean, the city, the stadium, the olympic stadium, i remember being there for opening ceremonies, you know, after the olympics, the Atlanta Braves moved in there. The Atlanta Braves moved to cobb county. And now that stadia has been re reinvented as a football stadium for georgia state, which has become this major urban university and the Andrew Young School of Public Policy is you know, you see that his name right above, you know, its a downtown campus, but you see his name on this building and its 25 stories up. You know, the Andrew Young School Public Policy. So it all kind of reinvents itself. It all kind of like, you know, full circle. I wonder what its like for him. Have you talked to him about about what its like to drive around atlanta and see his name all over everything to see, i think two statues to himself as well. And he entering is a interesting person. Hes very humble and hes very i guess when you reach 90 things dont impact you as much as they you know i see myself on tv im like calling everyone else trying to twitter right now to say this is like on live tv. But you know he you know i think there theres seven things in atlanta named after hes like you said, its two statues. Theres a school his wife theres theres school named for his former wife. Theres a st andrew young street. And he just kind of like those kind of things. I think he just takes it, you know, hes like, you know, hes appreciative of it, of course, but hes like, you know, its not that big of a deal. I think hes more or more excited just about how the city is, just how the city has grown and what the city is that and how hes contributed to that you mentioned his wife and that sort of prompted me to go in a direction that i wanted to make sure we covered as well because there are quite lot of stories in here about his family, about his his two marriages, about his parents his grandparents as well. How does he make sense of the importance of family, multigenerational family in who he is and his how do you make sense of that as his chronicler . I think thats important. I mean, if you talk to andrew young now, he is hes always talking about his kids. Hes always talking about his grandchildren having arguments, his grandchildren about how they live. Theyre not in a bad way, but just how, you know, you argue with grandchildren. And he always talks about how whenever hes arguing with them, theyll pull out their phone and ask siri and cyril, you know, hes always often wrong because you know, but he lives his life now at service of his wife and children and grandchildren because when he was a child, you know, he lived with his he lived with his parents, but his grandmother lived there. His elderly grandmother and his brother. So he was hes always been a part a of a Strong Family network. He married young. One thing about his grandmother, again, this is kind of a connection to family is that his grandmother raised his grandmother gave birth to, five children, but she raised six more. So she raised all these children. And in the black community, you know, its its not uncommon for people to raise other peoples children. His grandmother was that was one of those people. And talks about how as she got older, went blind and how he would to her every day he would read the bible newspaper every day. So he was able to kind of draw closer to his grandmother a whole different level because he was so she was so dependent on him. He was so dependent on on what she was teaching him. And kind of he carried throughout his life. You know, he married, he met, you know, he got a job. He got one of his first jobs preaching in a small kind of an internship, preaching job. And he stayed with a family in alabama. This familys daughter was in school and he saw the photographs of her and thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world and said, im to marry her and she comes home for the summer and they meet and he marries her. Six months later. And he stayed with her for 40 years, you know, and they built a family. And she passed away in 1994, i believe. And he remarried. So hes been married 40 years and 25 years. So hes been married pretty much all of his life because he sees the importance of family. You know, he understands the importance of family. His daughter, who is the andrea, whos the head of the georgia aclu, plays a significant role in his life and his and as well as carrying on his legacy of service. You know, shes a you know, and of his children do that. So its his great that hes built and family is at the heart of all of it. What was interesting to me about about well ill focus on the first half of the question about his early life. Two things. One that its so well document and that not just that there are a handful of photos, but beautiful photos actually professional photographs in some cases of of his childhood, in his youth. But also that, you know, this is not the vision that his father initially had for him, he had a very particular profession in mind. Would you talk about that and his relationship, his fathers parents . Well, let me let me talk the photos for sure, if you dont mind. Yeah. One of the one of the great things about one of the fortunate eyes on me in doing this book is that his is so well documented. As we mentioned hes hes 90 years old, but as a child, he was born in 1932, both of his parents were college educated. So they had they werent rich, but they had a little money and the fact that, you know, if look at the book, you have photographs of him as baby studio photographs of a little black child as a baby, which you dont see much of in the 1920s and thirties of of of photographs taken black children because we just didnt have the means of doing that. So the fact that his life was so well documented and so well documented basically from the he was born up until now with all of his different jobs that hes had that made it easier for us to kind chronicle his life in the book. The second part about the second part of your question about his relationship with his, he had a Good Relationship with his father, general, and that, you know, his father also lived a nice, long life as well. So they had a great relationship. However as i mentioned before, his father was a college man. His father was a dentist. And i think all of us, you know, i think a lot of times, particularly in the black community, if you are successful and you have children, you want your children to succeed, you better. And i think this is every family what you want, especially in the black community in the 1930s and forties, you want your child to be better than you. So when have a black dentist in and new orleans whos treating you know hes treating celebrities like joe louis and. Louis armstrong but he also has a dentistry in which he treats poor people and for free. He wanted his son to kind of follow in his footsteps and go to university, which is where his father went, which is a premier black college and become dentist. So andrew young went to Howard University with the intention to please his father by becoming a dentist but he goes he gets to Howard University and he is this is probably the first time and one of the only times in which andrew young did not do well. He didnt do well in college, although he graduated in four years. He was not a great student. You know, was on the track team, his own swimming team. He plays the fraternity. My fraternity is a smart fraternity, but i dont know whats going on with them. But you know, he didnt do well in college, so. Yeah. And the reason why he didnt do well is because his life or his heart wasnt to becoming a dentist. He wanted to do Something Different. He didnt know what he wanted to do, but he wanted do Something Different. He thought maybe he wanted to be a teacher. He thought maybe he he he obviously thought was going to be an olympian. And he thought about being a pastor. But, you know, pastors dont make any money. All right. So his fathers like, you know, youre going to be a dentist. So when he graduated, he barely graduated four years of howard. His parents drove up to washington, d. C. , to pick him up and bring him to new orleans. They couldnt find a hotel, of course. And anyway, between. So they stopped at a religious camp in, Kings Mountain, North Carolina, which is my home state. And they spent night at the religious resort and again, hes an athlete, so he runs up Kings Mountain one morning to kind of clear his head and according to this story, he runs up the mountain and. He he passes out or something happens to him when he wakes up. And this is you know this these are kind of stories you read. You know, or or mythology or the bible where he wakes up and the whole world is different he sees everything different. He talks about how the leaves are greener and the sky is bluer and the grasses and he sees the cows. And if god if, if god made all of this, he made all these vivid colors and all these complex things and complex creatures. And theres a purpose for me. So he wakes up, he runs down the hill, and he at that particular moment says, im going to be a pastor so he tells his father and his father is upset. You go back to his fathers story and his father as much as the great relationship that he had with his father, his father refused to pay for him to go to graduate school to become a. So you go to hard for seminary in hartford, connecticut his father refuses to pay for that. So he has a fine job. Hes he works three jobs. Hes like he works at laundromat. Hes hes a janitor. He does all this work to pay for himself to go through college because father wouldnt pay for it. But his father wanted to be a dentist. So, you know, that was a very significant part of his life because. He not only defined his father, but he also kind of charted its course for like the first time. Its like im going to go the way that i want to go. Im going go the way that ive been led to go. And his father, you know, he didnt pay for his college, but, you know, they were fine. So it wasnt like, you know, im i hate you or anything. So it wasnt an estrangement. Yeah. At what point does cause do they reconnect does as well not that theyre disconnected but at what point does his father say you maybe i was wrong about this whole dentist you know he never did you know, his father. His father never, you know, this is a guy again, he was he became a congressman. He became the mayor. All this while his was alive. But his father always felt that he should have been a dentist. Now he has a younger brother, walter, who followed his father into dentistry and is still a i dont know how old walter i think its probably 87. But he still has a practice atlanta, so hes still practicing dentistry. So walter, you know, following in his fathers footsteps and made them for me his father but his father never forgave him for doing oh yeah thats fascinating part of the story. Yeah. But the Kings Mountain story you alluded to is sort of that heros quest slash superhero origins. Thats a call to adventure and to be so committed to it that hes going to just dedicate and figure out how to do it, how to pay his own way into this life. Its pretty remarkable. And he you know, he once again, he wasnt a great student at howard, but he goes to hartford and becomes a aplus student. You know, he gets all these opportunity to go and, you know, churches all over the south want him to come. And organizations or religious organizations in the north want him to come and work there. So he really goes there and thrives and this totally different kind of student. We were talking a little bit in the green room about his sense of faith, and thats word you introduce. But but i think its. Its one that i think about a lot, too, was as i was reading the book, not just his spiritual faith, but his very humanistic faith as. Well, and that seems to be informing work that hes doing right now. I mean, as a 90 year old man, he doesnt necessarily have to do anything he doesnt want to do. Yeah. And yet hes still trying to put good goodness into the world. Hes still trying to save the world through a different set of tools and a different set of resources. But it is sort of the culmination of all these connections and work hes done up until this point as well. So would you tell us a little bit about what his foundation does . Yeah. So were at an event a couple of weeks ago with the Harvard Black Alumni Association and one of the students asked, you know, at 90 years old that with all the stuff youve done, why . Why are you here . Why are you why arent you just your feet up at a beach . Just i think his feet are at a beach now. Right now. But he said because he still has work to do, you know, he still feels that theres work to be done to make this country and the world better place. And i think what the andrew young foundation, which is his foundation, is nonprofit and hes working on ways in to he wants to figure out a way to feed, you know, 6 billion people on earth and find the alternative sources of food, finding alternative sources of income, doing things with the mississippi. You know, he grew up in new orleans of on the mississippi river, trying to find different ways in which the river can be used to to to to people and sustain people. So with this foundation, hes kind of moved on to another phase of his life to kind of like, okay, im going to not necessarily sit back and relax, but, you know, use this foundation for good, use this foundation to heal people, the foundation to to get everything ive learned in all these worlds and, all these different lives, to put it all in, to kind of make the world better. So the kind all the everything that hes been given he wants to now give back. So is a Philanthropic Organization its a charitable. You know, hes going to work in africa. Hes done work in the middle east. Hes done work in the caribbean, and hes done work in atlanta, you know, just kind of like, you know, looking for ways in which to to share. You spend the money he has gotten or to spend the money that hes raised to kind of, you know, feed people. So, as you know, joseph williams, whos another great civil rights leader, he has hosea feed the hungry here. We had joseph feed the hungry, which every thanksgiving and christmas he would literally go out and feed hungry people in atlanta. You know, thanksgiving and christmas dinners. And andrew young says, you know, im doing the same thing. But no, you know not in a bad way. But you know, hes kind of the same. Hes feeding the hungry as well. But just thinking about different ways in which it can be done. Mm hmm. Yeah. So different of, you know, an actor that. Yeah, yeah. But both amazing models of leadership. Yeah, yeah. Put yourself in there and use the resources that have for the good others. Before we open this up to audience questions. So thats here like five minute warning gang. And remember, please do come up to the microphone over there to help us all out. Im really curious about how what, what would say would be the great of his life. You know, so often we read biographies or autobiographies because interested in fascinating people and he is certainly that but were also looking for ways to live a life and to live a life of purpose for 90 years is pretty remarkable. So know what what advice would give if he were here to give it to, do you think . Thats a great question. I mean, i think it would just be to kind of live your life and you know, ive he and i are on a on a kind of a book tour right now. And we you know, we run all over the country will continue to go all over the country talking about the book. But he has kind of taught me necessarily told me, but kind showed me through his words and actions about how i can be better and what i can do, how i can do things differently. But i that if you were to ask him that question would be just to kind of follow your lifes to follow what you to do. And also not to be afraid of of taking a risk, not to be afraid of listening to other people. Like you said, you know, he want to be a congressman, nor did he want to be the mayor of atlanta. He to be convinced of that, he had to take that risk. He had to take that challenge. So i think its like kind of following your heart but also be willing to take a challenge and be willing to to to sacrifice yourself, to be willing to fail. I him you know, i think ive asked him a couple of times on the tour has ever failed and he said, you know, i cant remember a time that i had failed. And this is a person who has done everything whos whos whos always took risk. And, you know, sure hes probably lost money in an investment or something or, you know, whatever. But you know, hes always been able to take risk and, do things and, you know, and if if it doesnt work out hes on to the next thing or if it does work after, you know, hes gotten bored with it, it move on to something else. I mean, this guy is one, you know. Yeah, i go to his house and he has like, you know, of course he has the olympic torch and all this kind stuff, but he also has him. Hes just like, you know him, hes all over all of his house, but hes just a sitting there, just say, oh, i wanted to tim miller for that or whatever. Right . But i mean, he has an amazing, diverse renaissance person that hes done everything. Its just like so amazing. Yeah. Yeah. He does seem to be what we would think of as, as a lifelong learner, too, a guy who keeps putting himself new positions where he doesnt necessarily know how to do it, but hes going to figure out how to do it, and hes going to surround himself with the people who will support him, who will teach him to. He also seems like someone who has been out mentors, which is perhaps why hes become that for you as yeah, and thats often the way that cycle works also. So i want to ask perhaps one more question before will happily take yours if anybody wants anybodys brave enough to approach the microphone. If not, ive got a couple more that i throw in for the good of the order here as but you mentioned being on tour with and im curious over course of working on the book putting this together in a relatively quick turnaround time, what from what ive gathered and then out and having public conversations and private conversations with him, is there anything that youve learned about him that just brand new information to you that is shocking or interesting . This is a great question. I think that the one the one thing that i was very shocked about, which i already mentioned was, the the whole Kings Mountain story, which i thought was just the most fascinating thing. But in terms of just kind of being on tour with him and knowing him and getting a hang out with him at the hall and just out. Yeah. Is that he has you know, hes taught me a lot, you know, and just kind of listen to his stories and kind of, you know, a lot of the stories know where hes going with them. I know exactly how hes going to phrase it, because ive been with him for so long. But listening to these stories and kind of understanding him and him teaching, me, theres two quick things ill mention, please he and i went to washington, d. C. And in we we fly to washington, d. C. , and were ready to go find the car and were there for like one day that were going to go and speak, come back the next day i take a suitcase with the suit like three pair of shoes, all this stuff and i said, you know, well, were to go meet the car. Im going to go get our bags from the baggage claim. And he says, im gonna have your bags and this is my bag. He pulls out a briefcase like, well, heres your clothes, you know, were speaking, were speaking tonight. Then we to get up and you know, he said, i have my underwear in here. I had my toothbrush in here. This is all i need. And that said so to me about how i was i had all this stuff to do, this one day event, and he had this little and that goes back to, you know marching from selma to montgomery. You know, when you were marching, all you needed was a bag and an apple and a sandwich. Thats you needed. And, you know, thats that that right there just guy who has you know he knew nelson mandela. He knows every president since Lyndon Johnson and he is still going around the country with a bag with a toothbrush in it, which is amazing. And that just says, you know, that kind of changes my priorities as well and the second story oh i almost forgot the time we had an event at the Carter Center and i had all this stuff i had all the stuff here in dallas. Yeah and i, you know, he said, why do you have all suffering now . Lets just talk. Lets just have a conversation. And he learned that when he was a pastor in the 1950s in North Carolina and georgia, he said that if youre going to read your your your, then the people arent going to trust you, then theyre not, you know, your congregation is not going to trust you. So it has to come from your mind. So he never reads from paper and ive been trying to do that, but its kind of hard. So, i mean, you know, every day hes kind of teaching me Different Things and hes not necessarily sit down and im going to teach you something, but hes telling me things that im kind of picking up and becoming better myself. So i just want to correct. Yeah. Of his hes sort of modeling things for you for us. Yes. Thats fascinating. Thats still the core of who he is. Exactly is to moments from his very young life that still inform who he is later. Yeah, yeah. I dont do exactly what do but i do something quite similar im director of the pat conroy literary center, as i mentioned, and im a conroy protege, one of many, one of hundreds who perhaps sort took under his wing. The very way that youre describing and i give public lectures about, pat, in 2 hours. So, you know, at any given time, i probably 12 hours of conroy content just of on a loop in my head yeah none of which replaces actually getting to spend time with him getting to have the experiences that you are having with andy young. So you know, i envy you that its been its been a blessing, but those two figures actually overlap. You mentioned penn center earlier, so i want to mention this and perhaps this will be our closing question in absence of an audience question, dont be afraid. Microphone, you are right there. But penn is where the the turing exhibit from the book many lives of andrew young is headed. And for those of you who havent seen book yet, it is highly visual. So very excited to actually get to see the exhibit. But the reason its going to penn center, because andrew young was there, dr. Was there, julian bond was there, Jesse Jackson, all of these rights leaders were there in the 1960s because that was one of the few places in the country where blacks and, whites could safely gather together. And it was a haven. I think thats probably best word of activity during the Civil Rights Movement and at time, pat conroy was a High School Student before high school and his teacher, whos very progressive ally and advocate of a teacher, gene, understood the importance of that and wanted pat to to see it to experience it firsthand. So six year old pat conroy, andrew young at whatever age he would have been at that time and met dr. King on a street thats now named for dr. John, that all of those folks, it was transformative for him. But what was like for andrew young have you to him at all about his penn center experiences . I think i have. But all in all of his experience have been these like little pillars in terms of him, of filling out his life, you know, sinaga is a pillar that a lot of people dont about. You know, he was in selma, but, you know, being south carolina, being around Martin Luther king, being around all these civil rights leaders who were his mentors, you know, all helped kind of create who he is now. So the penn center, the like i were going to move our museum from atlanta to the penn center. So thats the reason it meant so much to him in that experience. Meant so much to him thats perfect that we do have an audience question. Do we have time for a very quick question, too. Two questions. One is you were saying that many strong leaders come out of these historically black colleges and universities. Have any strong black leaders come out of the white universities. And second question is, id like to know what role andy young had in the Civil Rights Movement. What could he do that martin king couldnt do that made a major contribution to the success of movement . Okay. Well, in terms of and i just before i got here, i visited fisk university, the great university, the great hbcu here in nashville. But yeah, you barack obama came out of columbia, w. E. B. Dubois was the first black person to get a psc from Harvard University. I forgot mae jemison went. But yeah, after he went to fish, after he went office. Of course yeah yeah thats why i said well yes so historically black colleges as well as predominately colleges have been educating black for years. But i the historically black colleges because for close to 100 years thats the only place we could have gone to college. Thats why i went to undergraduate at a historically black college. So we cant underestimate how important these institutions are, which is why i went to west today and i thought it was important that if im going to be a national, even for a couple of hours that i visited. Your second question, more distinguished youngs role, the Civil Rights Movement. What did he do that the Martin Luther king couldnt do . Yeah, well, mean he carried if he carried on Martin Luther kings legacy in a different way. Like, as i mentioned, he was able to go into politics. He was able to run for mayor of atlanta, run for mayor of the Martin Luther kings birth city. Same thing with Jesse Jackson thing. But julian bond, all these who were proteges of Martin Luther king jr actually continue to carry his legacy in politics or philanthropy or civic duty. You know, john lewis, for example, john lewis was, another nashville student. John lewis went on to become a congressman for 33 years, you know, and john lewis talk specifically about fact that Martin Luther king jr. Brought him from nashville to atlanta on a bus because john lewis having trouble in school and invited him to atlanta. So in 1963, john lewis, the youngest person to speak at the march on washington. And ten years later, hes in congress. So these are kind of things that kind of that legacy that carries on. Rodney king got at the age of 39. So he lived a very relatively young life. But his legacy and the people that worked with him and followed him continues now until this day. And it continues through to the young. And as i mentioned, james orange was james orange. His daughter just passed away today. So thats kind of another pillar in that cohort, that whole king legacy that continues to go. Yeah and ending on that note on the on the note of legacy may be a good moment to conclude our conversation with with ernest. So everybody join me in thanking friends for joining us today. Yes. And once again weve been talking about the many lives of andrew, which ernie will now be signing on the plaza. Thank you all so much for joining us here at the southern festival of books. Thanks, henry. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, well done, sir. Hello, everyone. Good. My name is kashif andrew graham. I am outreach librarian, religion and theology of vanderbilts divinity library. And im so excited to be today with hala allen, who is author insurrection. Hawa is attorney and author whose work has appeared in the Chicago Tribune los angeles review of books lathams quarterly and the baffler, amongst other publications, she