>> good evening, welcome. i'm bradley, owner of politics and prose. all the folks here at listener, thank you for coming. we at pnp have been working with listener auditorium for a number of years now putting on a large author event and we are very grateful to be able to have access to such a spacious inconvenient facility here in downtown washington. what a terrific crowd this evening. i really have to marvel at the size of this audience and what it says about dan rather's continued popularity. you know for those of us of certain generation grew up watching dan report the news on cbs for 44 years we can appreciate his appeal in the indelible mark that he has left on our consciousness but i see a lot of younger faces out there this evening and you are a testament to dan's amazing ability still to connect with and communicate to people of all ages. dan himself has expressed surprise at the significant impact he's had in recent months especially be a social media in his identity had been so tied up with cbs over so many years that when he left the network just over a decade ago admits some controversy he wasn't sure what he would do next but dan has always had a passion for reporting and he has kept at it past his 86th birthday which he celebrated last week. [applause] he has said before and you may hear them say again this evening that he feels quite humbled by and grateful for the many people who now follow his facebook platform, news and guts. [cheering and applause] which is named after his production company. it is where he offers updates on current events and reflects on an array of issues. a few months ago politico reported that news in guts was getting on average more likes, comments and shares for every post and busby, usa today or cnn. [applause] dance new book what unites us which he co-authored with elliott kushner is a collection of s essays, the chapter sound basic with such headings as the press, the, science, the environment and public education. but dan personalizes many of these topics by wrapping and anecdotes from his storied life while reflecting on the qualities and trends that have made our country what it is today and offering thoughts on what should be done to deal with current challenges. dan, of course, is outspokenly patriotic but he's also made no secret of his deep sense of alarm about trump, about the shattering of important norms of american life, about interest partisanship growing inequality and persistent injustices. still he remains essentially optimistic leaving in the fundamental resilience, integrity and honesty of americans. he brings a seasoned perspective and sense of balance in reason to a public discussion that nowadays is all too often dominated by politically motivated distortion and just plain on prints. dan will be in conversation here this evening with jonathan, member of washington post editorial board and he's been there for a decade now. and msnbc contributor so ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming dan rather and jonathan. [cheering and applause] >> thank you. >> i will just ahead a little more to the file that brad gave and i'm sure everyone knows who dan rather is but as a journalist i feel the need to say this that dan rather is a journalist journalist. he worked at cbs news for 44 years, 24 of those years you were beamed into our homes as an anchor of the cbs evening news and after your departure from the network in 2005 you kept working. you are still working as brad talked about and the news and guts and the news and guts facebook page in your own personal facebook page and now your latest book what unites us reflections on patriotism and that is what brings us here tonight. on behalf of myself and journalist, my agen age and your look to you as a guidepost welcome to washington, welcome to george washington university. >> thank you very much. [cheering and applause] >> thank you. >> dan, i can call you dan, right? >> please. >> your birthday was following and you turned 86 and i got two questions. have you ever considered retiring? you have earned it. >> no. [laughter] no, jonathan, it's a fair question but i like to work. on the son of two very hard-working parents and i really like to work and i love this work which is to say i've always had a passion of reporting is so as long as i have my health, god's grace and someone will listen then i really do like to work. >> speaking of people who like to listen and read and watch the other thing that is so fascinating is that you are wildly popular and wildly popular with millennial's. why do you think that is? >> the honest answer is, jonathan, i don't know. i'm amazed. [laughter] i say this humbly, not a word generally associated with anchorman from television but i'm amazed by it and i don't understand it. as best i can make out that when we started facebook page might co-author the goal was to try to give some context and perspective to the news and when possible and when i thought i had an experience i wanted to put it into historical context so my guess is that in the havoc of the daily headlines that some people and i have no illusion that we have a large audience but it's not the largest audience on social media but some people are looking for a study what they consider to be a reliable and experienced boys. partly because i've been around a few years and have a lot of miles as a reporter in the best the best i can do at guessing what the attraction is. >> so when it comes to writing the book and releasing a book it's not that you wake up on monday and by friday the book is out. this book took some planning but it seems as though your timing could not have been more impeccable. i am wondering when did the idea of this book occur to you. was it pre- trump getting into the race or post trump getting into the race? >> no, it was pretty much from the time when president trump got elected that we been thinking about the book. i had no idea that we could have the book out briefly this soon. in 2017. but the people of algonquin, the publishers of the book, approached me and said we been reading your facebook and would you consider doing a book and i said certainly i would but could we get it out in the 17th and somewhat to my surprise they said yes, we can do it in 2017. at or about the time president trump got elected was when the early [inaudible] the book. >> one of the things that i loved about reading your book and i have my own copier right here and books to me are living documents so i write in them and i underlined them in the right notes and the thing that i love about your book is from beginning to end how much it reminded me of we were, we as a nation, we were and who we are and i finished reading the book for wednesday night so it was wonderful to read something from someone reminding me that despite the situation that we are in now that we can get through this and so is one of the reasons why i was wondering why he wrote this book was this to be, in a way, a salve for hurting nation? or was it meant to be something where people can go back and in terms of history be reminded of we are at a time when we are questioning we are? >> if you permit me i've been thinking something about that because in making this book to work in a desperate effort to sell the book. [laughter] in appearing in various places this is a very common question. with your permission and only with your permission i'd like to read something that anticipated the question. >> let's make this a democracy and should dan read what he wants to read? [cheering and applause] course. >> one of the times -- you know as we have entered a very complicated and anxious time during this past year i've been in a reflective state and those who know me well might say that reflective state is rare for me but i've been in a report to state and thinking back over my life and career i think about all the change and uncertainties that eyewitness in the child of the great depression and world war ii seen the fever of the red scare, the fight for civil rights, vietnam, watergate, 911 and our current moment of history and as i've been thinking about what it means to be an american and what it means to be a patriot in the second decade of the 21st century that really was the beginning of the idea for the book. what is patriotism in our time? i know a lot of people confuse patriotism with nationalism in one of the discussions in what unites us is how important it is to recognize the difference between patriotism and nationalism. those things were in my head so i wanted to do a book that contributes to people's thinking about what patriotism is. ... but one key being a patriot is humility. if you are a true patriot, you go out and you don't beat on your chest is that we are better than everybody else. we're the best, we are the strongest. your humble enough to know that we are in search of a more perfect union. in the very beginning of our founding fathers in the constitution, it was said to seek a more perfect union. that is patriotism. there is a certain amount of arrogance and the danger with nationalism coming to extremes, you have, you can have extreme economic nationalism and also racial nationalism. and aryan nationalism. we know this. one of the things i wanted to do with what unites us is remind people of the historical perspective that follows. that extreme economic nationalism in the 1920s. led to the great depression. and aryan and racial nationalism led to adolf hitler. i'm not suggesting that we are at this point. i am suggesting that with the authoritarian nature of the presidency, sometimes it is only a short distance to extreme nationalism which can lead to nativism and then to tribalism. and there are great historical, never before in history of mankind in the united states that tribalism, if we ever descend into tribalism, then we have through as a land of the free and home of the brave. >> in your chapter entitled steady. and those of you with the bus, i will read from page 249. and 259. because you have this analogy of a pendulum. and this fits in with what you are speaking about on 249, you had rheumatic fever and listening to edward r morrow and eliciting reporting from london and you're right, and witnessed the great swing in the right direction. and i was armed with the lesson of my father, my hero, morrow and my country stay steady. and then 10 pages later, you write, the pendulum of the great nations now is in present day, the pendulum of our great nation seems to have swung toward conceit and unsteadiness once again. but it is in our power to rest expected of government is there to serve us, not the other way around. when i read that, and it was just after the results on tuesday. virginia and new jersey. and minneapolis city council -- [applause] i am wondering, what do those results -- what do those results tell you in terms of the pendulum swing? is what happened on tuesday the beginning of the pendulum starting to swing back? from what you wrote? swing us towards conceit and unsteadiness once again?>> i think it is indications of it swinging back. there is an ebb and flow of politics. but sometimes we go in one direction to the left if you want to call that. often times emerge to the right as we did at that time. but inevitably, over our history, that ebb and flow studies itself more or less in the middle. and i do think that by any reasonable analysis, and that resulted tuesday it is an indication that the country having swung very far right, is in the process of swinging a bit more toward the middle. you and i know from being in pontus a long time that overnight is a long time in politics. one week is forever! and now suddenly, people are talking about maybe a democratic groundswell for 2018. i think it is too early to say that. and i was a quite honestly, i think some democrats are celebrating a little too early. they are doing the equivalent of moonwalking in the end zone. >> right! [laughter] >> but i think not just the results themselves but the margin by which swung and most importantly within that, the difference of the vote this time in the suburbs. not just in virginia which were katie, one of the keys to donald trump victory.they are swinging back the other way. i think it may be swinging back the other way. things to watch, a very serious more over this could change things very quickly. and most people in the end go to their pocketbooks. if the economy continues to boom and continues to do quite well, that will gravitate to donald trump advantage. if the economy starts going the other way, that would be to his disadvantage. but one of the things that i hope people will take from what unites us, is that the general overall steadiness of the american people is one of our transport we have vulnerabilities and weaknesses. but overall in the study of the history it shows you that we may go through. of great division such as during the 1960s. we were certainly divided in a disastrous civil war. but we got there it. and we studied ourselves. the spirit of this book is the hope that we can remember that and if it needs to be said, i am an optimist by nature and by experience. and i'm absolutely convinced that while this is a very anxious time and in many ways a perilous time for the country, we're going to get through this. it may be a long valley to get through but we will get through it and will come out the other end and in the medium and long run better off. [applause] >> let me bring you back to patriotism. and that, for those of you following along page 12. what is patriotism? this line that you wrote, it made me think of another controversy that we've been dealing with. -- when i read your line i was instantly brought to the local players in the nfl for taking a knee. the young protesters around the country that have gone to the streets in the black lives matter movement. the woman that flooded the streets of america on january 21 the day after donald sums inauguration to protest the incoming policies. the people that took to the streets the week after that when he proposed the muslim ban. and with the nfl you have the president tweeting that the people doing that, bearing witness to our nations fault are un-american, they do not love the flag or the anthem. what do you make of that? talk about that? >> i will talk about that but with a short preface. i stand for the national anthem and i stand with my hand over my heart and i generally mouth the words and sometimes actually sing the words. that is what is within me. that is what i feel. having said that, i respect greatly, those who have had different experiences whose conscience dictates a different course. and they have every right to dissent. in fact i talked about what unites us to dissent is one of those things that have been one of our strengths in the country. because time and again -- [applause] time and again, dissenters, in the beginning are called unpatriotic. they are called against the military, against the flag or what have you. but over time, when justice is on their side, then people come around and say do you know what? the radical of yesterday was the prophet tomorrow. we have seen this time and again. maybe one example i have used is that women in suffrage. those women who spoke out, seeking the vote for women in the 19th century, he can go back and read what was said about them at the time. they were radical, they were unpatriotic. they were trying to undermine the culture and society. it took a while, it took too long but before we were 1/5 finish with the century. and doctor king was accused of being an extreme radical. that was one of the milder things. however, by continuing to stand strong for nonviolent protests in the face of injustice, we wound up by the mid-1960s, passing some of the most important domestic issues in the country. the point being that we should be very cautious of criticizing dissent. it is patriotic. and the president, and tried to be as respectful of the office of the presidency as i can. but this effort, to shift the public perception of these dissenters as unpatriotic and against the military and against the flag, is frankly unconscionable and that is what is unpatriotic. [applause] >> in fact, you write on page 35 dissent is doubly necessary to resist the slide integrator autocracy. he said something a second ago about your respect for the office. it was hope you got going full on. i will go maybe halfway into that. [laughter] to me, as an, and certainly as an african-american, watching the president of the united states on a tuesday in august, in the lobby of his autonomous talent fifth avenue, give moral equivalence, make a moral equivalency between the nazis, white supremacists and the bigots marching on charlottesville with the people who came out to counter protest was a bridge too far for me. >> it was for me as well. >> i thought that one action, donald trump created the moral authority of the presidency by doing that. -- exceeded the moral authority of the presidency by doing that. am i going too far? [applause] >> no, definitely not! and this is exactly life -- in what unites us, the patriotism. i did not want to say anything about the trump administration and his name is not mentioned anywhere in the book. it was to have a broader discussion. to put the two words "after words" give some context and perspective to what is going on with the national leadership. that this was unconscionable. but the president did. in making this moral equivalency. and sending the proverbial check with the neo-nazis and the ku klux klan. i hope that many of the people who support the president will read the book. not because i'm trying to convince them that they are wrong about some of his policies. to understand combos and think all is need to understand, this is not normal. this is unique to this presidency. [applause] and i will give a specific example. there is historical context without taking back to sometime in the early 70s. some neo-nazis paraded in illinois. you can go back and read this in the archives. at that time the president was richard nixon. it was unthinkable that the president would say nothing to make some moral equivalency. it was in the early 70s get richard nixon, it was just unthinkable. that a president would have anything that can be read by, from any viewpoint. giving approval or given moral equivalency to those neo-nazis. deep anti-semites. and now we go forward to 2018. or 2017 and this is why we have to recognize as a people, whether we are republican, democrat, independent, muslim, whatever we are! to send a very strong signal that with the president of the united states who is -- remember his not just head of government but is also head of state. and by the way, this was back to my say to that have great respect for the office for the presidency. i was the chief white house correspondent for cbs news for 10 years. i can tell you, i do not want to sound sloppy or something that i really felt that a great sense of pride and responsibility every morning i walked in those gates. thinking about our history, thinking that with the office of the presidency is. sometimes our foreign friends and understand. sometimes we do not understand it ourselves.we have a government with the president represents, he is head of state. in all of that conveys as well as the government. so when i say respect the office, we never met anybody that felt stronger, that the presidency, because it is a combined head of state and head of government, the head is responsible because not because of the strength and ability, but the ideal that it represents. and fortunately we as americans, a majority of us do not think now and i'm convinced will not think in the future. we do not view our president is some descendent of a sun god or some king. he is another citizen who has been elevated to the highest honor that we have. and that carries with it a tremendous responsibility. in the criticism of the president which i think is most at the time that he has brought to the presidency. there is nothing noble in what he is doing. people want a president to have at least some semblance of nobility. because we like to think of ourselves as a noble people or a noble experiment to prove they multireligious, multiracial, multiethnic society can hold itself together. this is why it is so important to recognize that this is a unique period. we've never had a president that so personally directly and unrelentingly attacked individual reporters, reporters at large, presented their quote - enemies of the people. i suggest this is a very dangerous phrase to use. the press and the people. and if there is institutions of the press. we have never heard of anything like it. and when people say well, remember president nixon. the nixon administration, he did not like the press at all. and he did make efforts to intimidate the press. including individual reporters and guests, including this individual reported. but by and large, we use surrogates. for example the vice presidents, that hitmen on racial policy. the president himself very rarely, i cannot member a single time when he personally attacked individual reporters. when he personally attacked some institution. you might complain but not attack. and this is key. the reason it is key. i hear people say all the time, you're a journalist so you complain about the president complaining about the press. number with these kind of attacks it is important to our reputations and you can say are living but it is vital to the country to understand that this has to be unacceptable because a great, a truly free and independent, fiercely independent press is the red beating heart of freedom and democracy. if we do not have it will not have what we have now. [applause] >> sarah, given what he said. he said a lot of things. but i will take the press keys off to the side. and what you're talking about before that. we've never seen this, we've never seen this before. the tone and tenor coming out of the oval office. coming out of the mouths and twitter figures of the president of the united states. we have been, people have been lauding members of congress like senator flake, senator mccain, who had stepped out and spoken very bluntly about the president. two of them are retiring and one of them is basing his own mortality. but it makes me wonder about what responsibility republicans have to emulate what corker, flake and mccain are doing. and i thought about this when you read this line where you asked the question, do you stay and tried to change the church from within? or leave the church? what would you advise republicans to do? >> first of all, i would not place myself in position as advising anybody. i have made so many mistakes. i would not do it. however, i take this is a serious question. this is a question of conscience. especially for the republicans because they are in the majority. in the president is a member of their party. it has been, and i've not heard this word used much. but again, let's talk directly. there has been some cowardice in the republican party. [applause] it is a harsh word. i understand that. cowardice comes from any number of republicans saying to themselves, i hate when the president is saying. i hate the tone and the tenor of what he is saying. i hate the injection that he is left about his style of leadership. but they have not spoken up to say so it is one thing for which i send this to say it it is for another different basing his mortality to say. it takes courage and it takes guts to say what your conscience tells you and to do the right thing. i will say this, democrats sometimes when they been in majority, their faith if not identical but with some of these questions. right now the republicans are in the majority and history is going to judge very harshly. if those republicans who continue to, by their silence, acquiesce in the tone and tenor of the presidency. i do not consider that a partisan political statement. and i do not want to use the ideology. quit talking about our country folks. we talked about what kind of country we are becoming. and because it is majority, the republicans have the heaviest responsibility to speak out when their conscience says that they should. thus far, very few have done so. >> i was going to move on to another part but you have a chapter on empathy. and there are a couple of lines here. again, you said you do not talk about president trump at all. he did not mention his name. it is not in the book. but -- in the empathy chapter page 101 you write that our worry about our nation suffering from a deficit of empathy. this is especially true of many impositions of national leadership. and then two pages later ãyou write, one often finds the greatest lack of empathy and those who were born lucky. >> welcome i think it is very apparent who i am talking about. [laughter] >> really clear! >> no, but -- and i tried to be clever about this. but again, you know, i'm trying to elevate the level of this. and part of the spirit of what unites us is to say, we need to be much more civil in our discussions. one can argue that i am not a civil i should have been. but we all know ãby the way this empathy chapter is my favorite in the book.because we are as americans emphasizing that we have our faults.we are not perfect. one of the things that we have in history, a mark of the american character to be empathetic. if you have seen really wonderful demonstrations in the wake of the great hurricanes. particularly harvey in houston. what we saw, regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, neighbor helping neighbor. people pitching in and not waiting for the county or state of federal government to come help. demonstration of empathy that stands as an example, we are empathetic people. was happened very recently, i will say has been building for some years, is the idea somehow that compassion is enough. and here again, i referred to the dictionary. there is a difference between compassion and empathy. compassion is i feel sorry for people. empathy, is saying in effect, is not feeling sorry for people. i understand and i'm trying hard to understand. and that is empathy. it is the hallmark of our history. the hallmark of our character, it is and has been an attempt to squeeze it out. but it is not going to work. >> you tell the story about when you were growing up in the families that all lived around the one family that lived and basically was in a hat. at one point he said to mother something to the effect that felt sorry for the neighbors and your mother snapped at you. what did she say to you? >> what she said is emergent what is it earlier. she said we do not feel sorry. we understand. we understand what they're going through. and we try to help them. >> i know i put the press portion of your previous answers to the side. but i want to bring it back because a free press, and a free and unfettered press is one of the legs and the stool of our democracy. you have an entire chapter devoted to books. and for you, books or maybe the second and third leg of that stool because of what books are present. and i know you want to, you want to talk about that part. go to read a part. >> i do, thank you for asking. [laughter] no, but -- i love books.i was very lucky. i was introduced to books early. and at the library i was no more than seven years old. and it was one of the transformative events of my life. again, we tend to overlook how important books have been in our history. and in this chapter i will read, i hope they read a little better this time. but this is from page 145. if you travel to washington dc, you can see our countries debt to the power of books in the very heart -- next to the supreme court and basically doing the capital is the library of congress. i find this symbolism inspiring. three institutions that right, judge and archive the words and thoughts that allow our nation to function. the library of congress was founded in 1800 with a modest mission. a reference resource for congress. but that changed after the british burned washington during the war of 1812. in the original election was lost. in response, thomas jefferson offered to sell his own library to the us government. his collection of books was considered one of the finest in the new world. containing thousands of volumes on almost every topic imaginable. not just law, and history but also the sciences, philosophy and the arts. to those who that such a desperate set of works was unnecessary for a library of congress, jefferson responded quote - there is in fact no subject to which a member of congress may not have this to refer. they go on growing up in working-class houston, i had never heard the library of congress for the great rotunda at the university of virginia. but my branch of the public library showed me that books were not only important, there were also objects of beauty. the stone building had high ceilings. big windows and a red tile roof. the italian style architecture made the library seem worlds away from my neighborhood. i was pleased that later became a recognized historical landmark. even as a high school student, i would often prolong my while comparable to go to the library. it might sound sappy. but the building inspired me to dream of exploring the world. greater than the world that i knew. [applause] >> don't put it away yet! because you, and that wasn't my favorite part of this chapter! and i was going to read it myself but you need to read it because -- out loud, i mean! [laughter] because the words that you say in the last paragraph of the book, page 153 for that chapter. while he is find the page, like i said then four. >> 153. >> i underlined my book. it is great language here. please, read that last paragraph. >> the last paragraph on page 153. [laughter] thank you. >> this is good folks! >> our nation was born in the spirit of fierce debate. our founding fathers had sharp political differences. but they were almost all deep readers, writers and thinkers. when they set about to create a modern republic, they entered their libraries and pulled out what the philosophers. they consulted the greeks, the romans, the philosophers of europe and the bible. they revered the power of the written word and how and enables a nation, free from the whims of a king. as john adams wrote, a republic quote - is a government of laws and not of men. a government of laws is a government of reason in a government of books. that was true at all founding and we must ensure that it remains the hallmark of our future. >> i mean, come on! [applause] i am so glad i got you to read that paragraph. because it gave me chills to read it. in the book and underlined it vigorously. but it is also wonderful to be reminded of the men and in this case the men who said about the noble experiment of creating this country. not perfect. not a perfect exercise. but they created a document and a nation that makes it possible for someone like me and someone like you to sit across from each other and have them -- have open dialogue about who we are as a people. before i open this up -- i will ask you one last question in that i will open this up. we'll get questions from the audience. to standing microphone. the light is in my eyes but i am assuming one is over here and one is over here. i ask that you make sure that your question is short and that it is indeed a question. [laughter] because they want as many people to ask as many questions as possible. also no speeches. if you do log into a speech i do not need to be rude but i will have to cut you off and i will be rude doing it. [laughter] so, the last question want to ask you -- before we start with the q&a. mrs. simmons, the principle of william g love elementary school. and you have this time at this moment it made me laugh. it is in the public education chapter on page 195. you write, sometimes, to break the ice and make a point she would explain quote - you know there is tough, street tough, and then there is prison tough. after a pause, she would add, and it was a can still remember quote - and trust me friends, i can be prison tough and beyond if i have to be! [laughter] who was this lady? [laughter] >> well, she was one of the most important people of my mrs. simmons was of a different era. this is publishable. i never saw the inside as a student other than public school including college. but she was in the scheme of things at that time, she was allowed from the school system to be a kind of dictator at the elementary school. she was a benevolent dictator. but she chose the teachers, she selected the teachers. she was a nuclear power plant of energy. she came and check in with each classroom every day. one would say she was micromanaging. but we did not see it that way. i will give a specific example of why she was such a strong educator. when you had your multiplication tables, when your teacher thought that you had mastered the multiplication tables, then you went one by one along to ms. simmons office. [laughter] and he recited the multiplication tables. if it was not perfect, then you went back and stated again. another example was that mrs. simmons, many people in the neighborhood did not have a telephone. we had no telephone it was the depression. a long time ago. but you -- she would send notes home to parents. and if you misbehaved she sent a note to home and expected the parents to come to school. now i recognize this is a long time ago and i'm not suggesting that every principal at every school in our country can do as mrs. simmons did. i will say that she had such a deep level of commitment to every student in the school. that she still is, to me, a shining example of what a school teacher or school administrator can be. [applause] >> and with that -- we have got a lot of people. i'm going to alternate and so i am going to ãi'm going to start at the top. >> mr. rather, when you begin your television career at cbs news, there were only three sources of news on television. we have evolved into a society where news is presented in so many different platforms and there are so many different flavors of news available. when one event happens, it can be interpreted and presented in so many different ways. what do you make of that in terms of how we move forward in processing what the truth is and what news means different audiences? >> well, the technology has changed tremendously. the number of platforms for news has multiplied tremendously.it is very hard to compare the time i started at cbs news with today. but what has not changed, is the fundamental responsibility of the press. what is it that we journalists, those journalists were trying to do quality journalism and with integrity, what is our role? it is to try to be as humanly possible to get to the truth as possible. to be witnesses, to bear witness, to establish facts. and i am not taken alternative facts. and to get as close as we can. that part of the job as a journalist has not changed with all of the other changes that have happened. when we are at our best, acknowledging that we, and include myself, are not always our best. but when we are at our best that is the job! now, as we move forward in the post-digital age, it is more difficult for a consumer than it was at the time i started with cbs news.it is a greater challenge for the us consumers. it is a greater challenge to get a wide variety of news sources and compare it. not being a silo engine just want to hear an echo of what you already decided. this has been true over the years, but now it is more dangerous. there are people who you know do not bother me with the facts. my mind is made up. in a society such as this, it is dangerous. there is a lot of good reporting being done today. but you have to search a little harder to find it. having said that, one of the problems for those of us in journalism and for journalist institutions is this. the old business model, the support of the timely reporting we had in the 1960s and 70s, this business model is not dead in time. no one with greater sections has come up with a new business model that can advance or demands the kind of coverage that cbs news provided, for example in the 1960s. two examples. at a time when we need more, really high quality international reporting.it used to be called for news. we were in fact, getting less. because it was one of the most expensive forms of journalism. to have on the ground people and countries. so there was a shrinking of that.the second example is deep digging investigative reporting. again, it is among the most expensive forms of journalism. and there was a time when it plays a cbs news had a lot of it. not so much anymore. i am happy to say they have been somewhat of a revival of investigative reporting.my point here is, with the old business model, not only newspapers but also in many ways, for electronic journalism, no one is coming up with a new business model. american journalism is and what i'm caught a kind of -- this is a word from the catholic church. i'm not catholic but that is where it came from. it is the old order is gone, the new order has not yet been placed. and this is affecting the quality of news that in general, that you get. it is something to consider. i've no idea what the business model will be going forward. my optimism tells me we will find one. but consumers need to understand that among the pressures on journalist institutions and individual journalism, that is what i just outlined. it is a shrinking of coverage as the resources available for coverage will get more and more limited as a general proposition. thank you for the question. >> question here. >> is my pleasure to talk to and thank you for coming here. i am very happy to have you. i am confident that journalists who have grown up with you and if we are smart consumers, we can find the truth in journalism. but what do you say to the leaders of the highest level, they have a relationship with truth. and i am worried about my kids, i'm worried about institutions, separation of powers. when we are seeking truth and that is not, we can't find it. you know, there are lies and you know, i am confusing everything just seems so irrational. how do we reconcile with our leaders who cannot seem to speak in truth and fact two. >> thank you for the question. help me out here. >> i think she is asking. we have leaders who have a -- i think you said a pliable relationship with the truth. and how does she and how do other americans contend with that? when they are looking and trying to understand what is happening but those very leaders, you cannot trust that they're telling you the truth. is that right? >> this is a growing and ongoing problem. what you in general described. because -- and again, let's say straight out what the situation is. you have been administration in many ways, that seeks to move us to a post truth political era. a post-fact political era. given the power of the presidency, this is a powerful force to convince people. truth does not matter all that much. and truth is fungible. this place is a heavy responsibility on the citizenry. on each individual citizen. again, i'm going to say i have tremendous confidence in the american people. my experience as a reporter is to have great confidence in the audience. having said that, we americans have a lot of flaws. americans in general are very good at separating -- [laughter] lyle is a confusing time and as i said before, it presents in some ways a greater challenge for each individual citizen, i do not think that this effort to convince the public that truth doesn't matter, it doesn't count, would only count is what i, your leader tells you. i don't think it will get very far. and i do not want to say too much but with a repudiation posted earlier, that tone and style of the presidency is not playing well and will not play well with most americans. thank you. [applause] >> we have time for former questions. i'm sorry! >> okay. one, two, three, four. >> thank you for being here mr. rather. my question is kind of related to that.there are discussions now whether or not they should cover the white house press briefing. covering it to make the leaders answer questions of the press but also with the alternative facts that there may be just a propaganda effort with the press weeping. i was wondering what your perspective on that would be. >> a great question! should reporters cover the briefing? >> again i think i understand the question. look, the white house press briefings, for all of their flaws and sometimes it is a theater of the absurd. [laughter] >> or a kind of dance. but i do think is important to continue the white house press briefings. because it is an opportunity for individual reporters and various press institutions to ask the tough questions and more important asked the tough follow-up questions and to in effect, force the presence spokesman to either answer the question or to make it clear that she in this case is not answering the question. but i do think that these briefings are covered on a widespread basis and covered live. it is important for you, the individual citizen, to understand that with the modern presidency, this does not begin with donald trump but he has carried it to an extreme that we have never seen before. that the white house press briefing is designed by the white house to be a straight out propaganda operation. it is to tell the actions and history of the trump administration as told by hans christian anderson. [laughter] you know, there are so many good reporters these days. and i think the public understands this. they come prepared and ask the tough questions. they asked the tough follow-up questions. and they leave the briefing room as they themselves, okay, that is what they -- the top administration says it what is going on. now let me make telephone calls stop talking to people to find out what is really going on. and that is a very important role of the press. that is not original but one of my favorite definitions of news is, news is what the public needs to know. it is someone somewhere usually some powerful person, is not what the public to know. that is news! most of the rest is just advertising and propaganda. [laughter] [applause] question? >> mr. rather, i very much enjoyed following this summer when you took a road trip with your grandson.[applause] i'm curious to know what lessons he took home after taking a road trip to middle america with you? what lessons you learn taken a road trip with your grandson with a college kid? >> well, take you for noticing. [laughter] >> i took this trip as an effort to frankly, for some days of bonding with my oldest grandson.he had never seen mount rushmore. we drove from texas to mount rushmore. spent the time driving right in the heartland of the country. a wonderful experience! one of the things i learned from him was how interested he was and he tells me this is reflective of his friends as well. how interested he was in having a historical perspective of what is happening today. when some of the things that we talked about before. he is very interested to know how the countries handled times of stress and division before. and we talked about the 1916 and have the plight of the country was. talked about what about the red scare years. so there was interest that he had in the historical perspective and more importantly he says he is a senior in college and it is something his fellow students discuss often. the other thing that i learned is that try as he did and try as he does, as badly as i want to understand it, hip-hop music and wrap is still a challenge for me! [laughter] [applause] >> thank you! >> as a high school teacher, i feel that teachers have so many responsibilities today. and yet, education as a whole, keeps getting disparaged by the administration or the powers that be. especially with the new tax bill. and i'm sure we've all heard a lot about that. you have a very deep relationship with education, sir. and i would like to hear more about your take on that and where you feel it is going. >> your whole chapter on your take on education! >> well, am glad that you raised it because there is a whole chapter on education and what unites us. and the reason the whole chapter is because i do want to remind myself and remind everybody how important dedication in education has been in the country and how important it is going forward. i have a prejudice and i like to put my prejudices out front. i am prejudiced toward public schools. [applause] i am a product of the public schools. no, i have tremendous respect, great respect for private schools, charter schools, religious schools. but public schools, they are part of the very essence of the country. they are a great part of what has brought us to be the worlds only superpower economically and militarily. as you might be pointing out, there are various forces who seek to undermine public schools. i try hard not to read peoples motives. but i can make a judgment on their actions. and i do think and it is a very dangerous thing for the country. because such things as maintaining our lead time maintaining our position as world leaders in science and particularly research signs. it is size just for knowledge sake, not just applied science. it is absolutely crucial to our future as we move into a world dominated by artificial intelligence.such things as the -- we cannot maintain our position and not continually seek to improve our overall education system and particularly our public schools. i will say that i consider time i have had several times that, i think this is a perilous comparable country. one of the reasons it is a perilous time is because we, the public mind in many cases has gotten modeled what the value of public schools are. i will say once again, it is not any disrespect to other kinds of schools. but our public school system has been allowed to deteriorate over a long period of time. and you have to stop that if you will, the deterioration momentum. we have to stop the momentum in that direction and start building back to where american public schools are the world standard. >> thank you. [applause] >> last question. >> so, i want to ask a question based off of the early millennial conversation started with your to build off of your trip with your grandson. i have a lot of interest about. what happened in the 1960s, a lengthy angst that happened then. and i made millennial with minimal history. what does someone who has lived through all of this would say to go forward, to cut through all the craziness, what is the focus that is reasonable that we can look at and what is an action everyday people can do to move forward? >> so, to the question about moving forward. what is the focus that millennialist like her can zero in on and i have now lost the second it was action! reasonable daily actions they can do to help move things forward. >> keep in mind, i will try to answer the question. but keep in mind, please, what you are looking at is -- [inaudible] [laughter] >> what you're looking at, i am a reporter that got very lucky. i am not a philosopher a political scientist. but i'm going to try and answer your question. it is very important perhaps now more than any other time in my life, my own lifetime, with the possible exception of -- to ask yourself that question every day. i would suggest very respectfully suggest, the first thing is how can i help someone else? how can i help -- [applause] one step that president kennedy and his memorable inaugural address when he was sworn in asked, made this statement. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.a reminder of that and bring it down to a local level every day. i am not going to ask what my community can do for me, what my school, what the city or government. i will ask what i can do for my neighbor. and i'll add one thing particularly in today's environment. it insane to suffer want to help one other person today, make that the goal to help one person a day. if you can make that a person who is a different race venue, different religion, different ethnic background, that -- i'm convinced it will help you as a person. it also is a contribution to your country. the other thing on a much broader scale, and again, we were reminded of this last tuesday. the most powerful thing is the ballot. [applause] to vote, do everything you can to get everybody else to vote is a major contribution to your country and will be the rest of your life. thank you. [applause] >> that question -- sam or mr. rather as everyone said when they came up, her question and your answer -- they lead perfectly to the paragraph that i wanted to read from your book. you wrote in chapter of courage on page 268. [laughter] do not apologize or explain away your brand of hatreds. do not sacrifice your ideals. ultimately, democracy is an action more than a belief. the people's voice. your voice. must be hard for her to have an effect. dan rather, thank you very much. >> thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you. [applause] >> c-span where history unfolds daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and brought today by your satellite or cable provider. >> up next on book tv after words, washington examiner keith koffler reports on the life and career of steve bannon interviewed by representative lieu