joining us on our youtube station or special welcome to our friends at c-span. we present tonight program, meet the better have congressional partners spouses and families in partnership with use association of former members of congress, and we thank them for their support. we've been doing this for six years now. great to have you with us. look forward to six more. before we get started i like to tell you about to other programs coming up next month. actually this month, on tuesday february 6 at noon catherine will get to talk about her new book jefferson's daughters, three sisters, white and black and young american which looks into the lives of martha jefferson and harriet hemings. friday, february 16 at chris myers ash and george musgrove will be here to tell us about the book chocolate city, the history of race in democracy in the nation's capital. to learn more about these and exhibits consult our monthly calendar of events at archives.gov. you can also sign up at the table outside to receive it by e-mail or another way to get more involved with the national archives is to become a member of the national archives foundation. the foundation supports the work of the agency, especially our education and outreach activities and there are applications for membership in the lobby. a little known secret i keep telling everyone, no one is ever been turned down for membership in the national archives foundation. the national archives is a center for life save archives preserves historical records of u.s. house of representatives and the u.s. senate. but even those voluminous records can't tell the full story of caucuses operations. we can't overlook the importance of person-to-person relationships not only between members and also within members families. family members give tremendous support to those in public service. back in the revolutionary era john and abigail adams shared their thoughts and advice in scores of letters now preserved by the adams papers and available to all in founders online, come to project suppord by the national archives. receipt and mutual love and concern for family as well as devotion to the ideals of a struggling new nation. for example, in figure 1776 john wrote, i sent you from new york the pamphlet, commonsense, and i shall endeavor to enclose to you as many of the papers and pamphlets as i can as long as i stay here. abigail responded, i am charmed with the sentiments of common sense tell what you know how these sentiments are received in congress. i daresay it would be no difficulty in procuring the vote and instructions from all the assemblies in new england for independency. since their times, the days or weeks between letters has been reduced to instantaneous correspondence. let's now hear from our panelists on the central role of them the support and carrying out public duties. to introduce our panel of welcome to the stage christie english. just try the president of the former members of congress auxiliary and past president of the republican congressional spouses. she is the spouse of kelly english is served in congress for 14 years from 1994-2008 2008 representing the third district of pennsylvania. chris spent the first seven years of his congressional term living and working in the district in her hometown of erie, pennsylvania. retiring from her career in education after 30 years she spent the next seven years traveling to and from the congressional district in washington with her husband. she graduated from lake erie college with a degree in french and received a masters degree in english from gannon university. she taught high school, french and english in the school district for 15 years and then was coordinator of the high school gifted program for 15 years. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome christie and english. [applause] >> thank you, david. that was a great introduction, and for the many years of partnership involving the national archives and the former members of congress. first off a quick word about the association. the former members of congress and the organization that are represented as president as a former member of congress auxiliary. the exemplary consists of spouses of former members. under the umbrella we bring together a bipartisan group of over 600 congressmen and senators who work together on a wide variety of projects. fomc tries to strengthen the work as the current congress by promoting a deeper understanding of our democracy and encouraging public service. if you like to find out more about our projects and collaboration, please visit our website. two nights panel is an example of fmc is work to engage the public in a conversation about issues that affect our nation and our democracy. the partisan era where tweets and soundbites tried new cycles and politics is seen as an unkind profession for the power-hungry, it's important to step back and remember that our elected officials and their family members make selfless and grounded decisions to enter the public eye and dedicate time for serving in public office. here to moderate our discussion tonight is dr. laura brown purchasers of supported by by e director of the graduate school of political management at george washington university. she's a distinguished writer, dedicated scholar and a clean expert on politics. we also have two congressional couples, congressman don manzullo and his wife freda, and russ carnahan and his wife, judge deborah carnahan. they will be joining us tonight. i know both of the couples and can attest that they are wonderful people and that you will have a very interesting evening. welcome. [applause] >> let me say thank you, thank you to our wonderful national archives. thank you to the former members of congress. thank you to our former members who are here with us and their spouses. and thank you to the audience for being here tonight. i'm very excited about this conversation. i think we're going to get to share a little bit about something that i think is really important, which is that politics is about people and there are people who are doing extraordinary public service, committing time and family and energy to this life of politics and public service. so i think we have a lot to hear about tonight and a lot to learn from these families who are with us. so thank you so much again for being here. i want to share with you who was there with me on the stage with me because it's very exciting. where former member of the house russ carnahan was a democrat from missouri, served in the house of representatives for eight years in 2005-2013. next to him is his wife, deborah carnahan who is also an attorney and a retired judge, and founding partner of the carnahan and carnahan law firm, and a former assistant u.s. attorney. next to her we have freda manzullo who is the wife of representative don manzullo. i would do this a little out of order. so freda is a graduate of hope college. she was in michigan and earned her bachelors in biology and is a graduate of the swedish american hospital school of medical technology. really interesting background. she worked as a medical technologist for several years. don manzullo, representative from illinois, republican, served in congress -- let's see. i apologize. it's not on your bio. i did think it was here. how long did you serve? >> twenty years. >> twenty years. so worked with john anderson, former member of congress who also ran -- >> i worked for him. >> that's what i said. worked for him. and he ran for president in 1980 as an independent. and you serve from illinois as the republican for 20 years. so what we have is a wonderful collection of individuals who have given time, energy, heart to being in congress serving constituents, being with their political party. what we're going to talk about tonight and what i'm hopeful that everyone will sort of reflect on and share with our audience is that running for office is often thought to be something of a family experience. it takes a lot of work to actually run a campaign, takes a lot of work to get elected. that takes a lot of work to serve in office. so what i'm interested in is how did this commitment begin? what were some of the first conversations you had with each other about you i get in? what's the district that ira for quirks should ira for a lower office? how did you decide that congress was it, and that you wanted to make part of your life be part of washington? maybe, freda, it would be nice if you would start. >> when we were dating, lynn martin was our representative in the part of illinois that we live in. don was honest enough to say to me he was practicing law in a small town, oregon, illinois. but he said i've always dreamed of being a member of congress. so i have to be honest and say that it lynn martin decides not to run i would like to run for that seat. but i thought, oh, lynn will stay there forever. i thought this was a pretty safe bet. but then she was encouraged to run for senate which left the seat as an open seat, and don said to me, if i don't run now when somebody runs, they often will stay in for 20 years. so we felt like this was his opportunity, and our children were one, three and five at the time. so i wasn't particularly excited about getting involved with our kids being so young. but then i thought this is his childhood dream, how can you as a wife so you don't want your husband to fulfill his childhood dream? so i went along with it. >> and the rest is history, right? >> but actually don had never run for political office before. >> i had run for the school board at the time that i was defending the most notorious murderer in that county. it was a court appointment, just bad timing. [laughing] >> good for him. >> and, deborah? >> i think i knew that russ is going to run for political office from the moment he cut in on his best friend who was dancing with me. [laughing] a young democrats the event we both had in kansas city and said hello. as my father-in-law used to say, it's a genetic defect in this family. but yeah, i was president of my college of young democrats in columbia, missouri, and russell statewide president of young democrats, and he was in law school at the time, the university of missouri. we kind of connected through politics, but you know sometimes it still throws you a little bit because to say where interest in politics, you come from a political family and i don't get involved in political campaigns. i had already done internship on capitol hill. it's still a decision that really takes a lot of soul-searching before you actually say yes i'm going to commit to the time and energy and then kind of yes, and if we win, then what, right? no one wants to lose but it's a very difficult decision to make because what if you do when? so i think one of the last -- i was up in illinois in lincoln illinois at my girlfriends bridal shower and i get this call from ross and he said i need to talk to you. i just heard dick gephardt is retiring after 30 years in office, and we had just been redistricted into this district by one block. we didn't move to this area. we didn't move to the street or our neighborhood for this. and i said oh, my gosh, changes to be 24 hours to get home? let me finish at this pic of course my best friend and her mom are listening like what's he doing now? he goes know, i really can't. he said was 24 hours? people are going to jump into this. the seat is been held by a long time by very prestigious politician. he said i need to start making calls tonight. so i said okay, you know, let's go for it. that's just kind of how you roll sometimes. >> i think that's right. let me then ask sort of the opposite question. representative manzullo, how did you feel when you are running and you on the campaign? in what ways did you see that freda was most helpful and supportive, siphon sort of being this amazing spouse, i'm not writing you not have your childhood dream? >> well, i came home from the law office, business is a count of 3500, i county of 30,000 and our farm was raising beef cattle. when we got married she thought it was a safe bet this guy is going nowhere. i was staying put. i bought these three books on how to run for congress. okay. and she said what's the first book say? it says have 100 of your friends each give you $1000. silence. what's the second? what is your vision, why do you want to run? freda was, the first campaign we didn't come i know idea what i was doing. i got 47% of the vote, which was extraordinary. the man who beat me in the primary went on to lose to the first democrat to hold the seat in 100 years. freda really, she really showed extraordinary support because i had to make up my mind whether or not to run in the second primary in 1992. i said, freda, just tell me not to run. i got out of my system and she said are not going to stand between you and your boyhood dream. i dreamt i was only when i was a teen. i dreamt i was a member of congress. freda did an extraordinary lift, taking care of those kids and traveling throughout the entire congressional district. >> were you driving around the district? >> she was my chauffeur like every congressman has today. >> i think i've always believed driving the district is the best way to see. >> 110 was made that were coming back from about an hour and half way to keep awake we we're tryg to remember the names of the state capitals. >> only things people in politics do, right? >> yes. >> but it does become a family affair because i know, it's like when we first started don wanted to do this, but he printed off all this literature at his law office and then we put it in the ford wagon and went to a festival with our kids, but any kind of clammed up when we got there. he said i just don't know that i can walk up to people and start introducing myself and tell them what i'm doing. but our son who was five -- this was the first time, he was five. he thought it was kind of fun because he was a five-year-old. he was fearless. he just began saying this is my dad and is running for congress. >> it is true, there are some interesting stories about how it came about. a lot of it came historically from the spouses, from the wise googling to basically say, my husband is running for congress, would you be willing to support his campaign. so much of that sort of began in the family traditions. so i'm curious representative, what about you? how did you deploy your already campaign savvy wife on the trail? >> before i met debra i grew up in a family that was very political and had always been involved in my dads campaign. when i was eight years old he was running for the legislature and i've never going on this caravan for carnahan and they had a truck with speakers that went from town to town on weekends. i thought that was kind of, that was my first exposure to politics. but then i've been a scheduler in dads campaign and drivers. i have introduction. i didn't really think i was nestlé going to run for office myself. in fact, when the long time state statehouse seat came open, in 2000, trying to to talk debra into running and told her i would be her campaign manager. but she declined individually i ran but that's really how come we had practice law together. we worked in campaigns together so we had a good understanding, and she was always my sounding board for ideas. for people. because you approach by so many people and consultants and competing pressures and decisions, and i always knew that i was going to get the straight information from debra. i might not like it sometimes, but that was really so important to me throughout the work that i did. >> fantastic. so moving on now, you win. now what? do you move to washington? do you keep our house at home? do you stay at home? you keep the children there? did you bring into washington? these are all very -- >> can you afford washington? >> right. these are huge questions that i think every family confronts because there is this moment where everyone says, like in the movie the candidate, what do we do now? [laughing] >> sometimes i look back at the picture of election night when don first one, this was when you won the general election. [talking over each other] no. that was a primary. when you won the general election, pictures at night, we just look astounded. we looked happy. we looked overwhelmed. then when i sometimes look back at the picture i think, you did not have a clue what you're getting into after that night. when we came for the orientation we only knew one of the couple, and it was because a friend of ours had moved from illinois to michigan between the primary election and the general election, and they befriended peter hoekstra who was running the same time, and peter had children pretty much the same age as our children. so we met peter and diane in michigan about a month before orientations. in fact, the rnc called our friends that night when we were having pizza at his house to ask for money for the party, and he said you won't believe who is in my house tonight. i have to newly elected members of congress sitting right here. so we thought poor karl, , he dd not know being friends with us he was going to get calls for the rest of his life from the republican party. >> we were homeschooling the kids, freda was, because it was easier. a big shout out to archives and library of congress. our kids had the extraordinary opportunity, doctor, to see the actual documents. i remember one time we were at the library of congress, and one of the, it was one of the directors, reached up and he pulled down george washington's primer. and he handed it to the children. i mean, i could barely, i could barely stand up, but because of the archives we spent a lot of time in the stacks here and the library of congress. our kids get the most extraordinary education i think that anybody in the world could ever get. just seeing and oftentimes feeling the documents. in fact, the day i was sworn in january 31993, we came here. they opened the doors. they let us in. >> to see the emancipation proclamation because we were from lincoln and so of course abraham lincoln is -- >> illinois. >> yes. we call it lincoln. >> yes. so we came to see that and later on when the newspapers interviewed on, they asked him what was the most important thing that happened during your swearing in day? and you said that it was going to see the emancipation proclamation, that you stood there and you saw the signature and you thought, how much he sacrificed just to do the right thing. and you just hope that you would have the courage to do the right thing for your district. >> great story. thank you for sharing that. >> i was born and raised in alexandria, virginia. i was fifth-generation, and so all my family was here. i got to missouri because i wanted to be a journalist, and that's another whole story. i end up going to law school but that's what took me out to columbia, missouri. but our children were in a place in school what they were like, mom, i do not want to move to washington. so i negotiated with them that one child would leave his school because, then start. my eldest had it the hardest. he had to leave his junior year of high school. that's really tough. and then we moved to alexandria after the first two years and they get to graduate from my high school, tc williams. so that was cool. i kind of like that because so much of my children's world had been in misery, which was my new home, but they had not spent a lot of time out here. i really felt it was a positive thing for us and to be around cousins and aunts and uncles and grandparents and history. it was difficult, because if you live in the district, very expensive private schools. you live in alexandria, fairfax county, very expensive homes. and so we were paying to mortgages. it seemed like we were always broke, because we are paying these two mortgages, right? my kids were like, why don't we ever have any money? we have two houses. it was hard on me because i wanted to come to washington right away. i wanted to be here helping to set up the office and helping to determine the hiring people are doing all of that together. i can out about once a month i think. and then i was also still on the bench so it have to leave i bench. sometimes when the boys were moved here i still stayed on the bench for a while. sometimes we would see each other at the airport he be like high, babe. and i would be like by, babe. he was going back to the district for the weekend and on coming this way and then occasionally we were here and we would take meetings together, you know, that was great. eventually i retired my judgeship and was here more often. but there are very difficult decision and you're asking a lot of the children. my youngest son, he will probably just hate this, but andrew was going to the school, his grandparents, great-grandparents school, gw. he would come home and he would cry at night and say mom, i miss my friends. i feel like i'm i am at camp am never going home again. they don't get to go back home and see the friends as often. russ was going almost every weekend and ongoing, but they are out here away from everything that they knew. so i think he was pretty rough on them for a while. >> that's the good example of just how deeply personal it is in terms of where your kids are, what your spouses profession is and how do you juggle that. but then to make things even more complicated, you have the political pressures of staff are all worried, if debra moves the kids to washington, or are they going to think she's gone washington? you not going to be in the district anymore. you are balancing all of this stuff. at the end of the day you've got to do what works for your partner and your kids and your family. you figure it out. there's no one model that works. you just have to figure out what works. >> and i think the reason that really propelled us, my desire to be here with him more often in the decision-making of policymaking here was that i saw when you came home on thursdays he instantly started working. you worked friday, saturday and sunday, then my digital burette turn around and to go back. maybe you can make a ballgame with the kids. people just want talk to you when you're out. your kids are still either going bad, people want to talk to the member. there really wasn't was a lot f quality time turkey was working. when they were here he could maybe get home by seven, 7:30 and catch the end of a hockey game are part of a a baseball game actually attend something at school. so i really found out that the best way to get more quality family life. >> i agree with that. >> you have to make a decision. when we got married to, freda was 25, i was 38, and i made a decision then that our family would come first. and so we moved the family out here. people thought we had four kids. i said no, this one is my wife. [laughing] i would go home every other weekend. and i can't remember if anybody ever complained to my district director, the congress is not coming home this week and because this is his weekend with his kids. because they were homeschooled the kids, they got to go on a later clock, so i would get back from office, they were still up and they would sleep in in the morning. i spent more time with my kids as a member of congress than most guys who were nine to five and never travel. because that is our priority. if i could not govern my family, i was not capable of helping to govern a nation. so they came first. >> very interesting story and a very sort of famous one in the political science circles about how former represented rahm emanuel had recruited former representative keith sure to office where heath shuler was nervous about jumping in and he said i don't think i'm ever going to see my children. supposedly over the course of about a week every single minute that rahm emanuel was with his children he would call heath and said i'm with like it at the baseball game. then he would hang up. i'm with my kids taking the school, then he would hang up. supposedly he does over the of an entire week to recruit him and say you're not going to lose touch here it is hard and their speedy but he made a decision. i did not run for any leadership position. i did that go on the rules committee. i did that take a lot of quartiles because kids were number one. they will go up and other members could go on and that would be fine but the kids remembered when i was there and that's all we care about. >> i do think there's an interesting issue about the constituents want you there, but then they say they want you to be compromising and doing legislation here. >> we did get, when you came in, the well was poisoned when someone said if you moved to washington you have to commit and everything. that's what started the strife that's going on in 1994. washington, the place was broken and the approval rating started going down and down because everybody suggests, the city is broken, it stinks. why would you want to run to work in a place that stinks? >> there was more conversation that was able to be had i think when families were here all the time. i think that is one of the difficult parts now because it is true, children would go to school together and then everyone would see each other at the games and across the aisle you could have some conversations that were social, not just political. i guess out of this, what would you tell a brand-new member of congress, a newly elected freshman, they come to you and they say, what do i do about all of these think? >> what we tell a member are what do we tell the spouse? >> both. >> okay. it also a lot of people don't know, that is a great, big sister program. they are probably change that since we have spouses better also been, where you actually volunteer, like a ball into to taking the spouse who's come in and talk with him and partner up with the militant know about the different events and clubs and this and that, things to look for, how to push back on staff, things like that. i i think i would tell them to figure out for themselves how involved that they want to be to the spouse, number one. because everybody is individual. don't feel bad if somebody else's doing more or whatever. number two, to the member and the spouse i would say it's very important to figure out ahead of time with staff what your parameters are. what the involvement is. rice would never have a scheduling meeting without me there. i would be like i'm tired, but please tell me you won't make a decision because a lot of times you have to be the leader to your staff to let them know that the congressman just said that there what's important to you, because they will work you. they just will. i used to call russ the football, passing from d.c. to the district office, the district office throws him back. they have to pass to make a completion. you have to work on that and it's important. it really needs to come from the member and the spouse to communicate it. >> i often tell people the number one person that you need to get to know on your husbands staff is the scheduler. the scheduler has to be somebody that you feel comfortable talking to, because you have to be able to say these are the things are happening in our family that are untouchable events. it's disappointing maybe your husband will miss out on some opportunity but there will be other opportunities. it's more important that it actually gets to the family events that are important to your family. >> so setting priorities, really helping. >> everybody's going to be different, right? look at many members of congress are. we are as different in viewpoints and our backgrounds or how we have our families are how we are set up. very individualistic. there is no cookie-cutter formula. >> and obviously geography. this since like then senator biden was very lucky because he could hop on amtrak and it was so close and so easy to make that commute to the district. but you raise an interesting point, and that is we have an unprecedented number of women who are saying they want to get into this game and run for office. what does that mean for spouses in washington when we probably will start seeing some more men in this role of spouse? >> let me just say as a former spouse, i almost said former women spouse. [laughing] >> still a current spouse. [laughing] i had someone walk up to the what's and go, are you and ex-spouse? [laughing] >> we love the mail spouses. they are great. bob pelosi is like had spouse in the democratic circle, and they come to events and it was just great. it's more and more calm. it's wonderful. it really is. i will also say that the women members of congress were wonderful. i mean, i became friends with so many people, and men, too, congressional. but the female members were fantastic. .. talking about the contributions of spouses evidence and that is important. >> any thoughts about how desperate. >> when someone comes to me and says i'm thinking about running question in congress the first question is where his wife this. i guess, they could say where is your husband on it or where is your wife and if there is any hesitancy then you can't do this. england pierces wife didn't even know that he was elected president until he was elected and she was very upset and was horrible because her family was on the way to new hampshire from washington and the train overturned in the only casualty was the ten -year-old was killed. their only child. she did not know her husband was running for president. it was unbelievable. >> yeah, and you know, your spouse can make or break you. you know? a marriage is hard enough as it is without being in a political life and running around and living in two different places and back and forth. it is quite challenging and it does help to be on the same page especially if you care about keeping the family together. it's important role and, you know, if mama is not happy, no one is happy. [laughter] >> i would add to that there are some special, very special events and opportunities of things you can do to make it a point to do those together and bringing your kids to those special events. those are nominal and a great honor to participate in the things. the spouses whether it's a woman or a man, in addition to being in getting to know the scheduler, identifying those staff members that are involved in issues you care about. if it's healthcare or education or whatever the issue is so you can be involved in those issues and events that have to do with that so there are great opportunities for spouses to do that and then for the member, my advice would be, be sure speaking of from emmanuel at freshman orientation he said this is the most bipartisan thing you'll ever do in congress he said after this your party will divide you and you against each other will have to make a special effort find those projects in relationships. to me, whether you're in the minority or majority in congress having those relationships on the other side is important because there will always be something where you will have to go to someone on the other side to try to get something done or to build a coalition and that is where you got to take special initiative. >> he also he's been a friend of ours for years and after orientation and rahm said what i do with family, i tell them. i have one day and here is he doing leadership and is a busy guy who said every time i get one day on the weekend and now if you decide to send to me something on sunday do not expect to see me on saturday. and vice versa. you really have to guard that because what happens is and i tried that and it didn't work all that well. [laughter] because what happens is you will hear oh it's just one event but it's an hour getting ready for the event and it's driving to the event and at least an hour because no event is a half an hour. that will never happen. is coming back and decompressing and changing so really the stuff you want to say deborah, i know you cleared saturday for him he could do this but it's just one little event and i'm always like, don't even try it with me. this is four hours here. is constant. no one is ever going to fix that. that is just the nature of the beast. >> i think that's right. thoughts? >> i think one of the advantages me homeschooled we actually were able to spend big chunks of time in illinois and the trust of time in virginia and what my kids liked about being in virginia was that the weekend their dad was stay here this was in his district so he was hours the whole weekend. they also enjoyed when they got to high school age we had sold them through eighth grade but when the oldest one was heading toward her school we weighed the pros and cons of where we want to do high school. do we want to do it back in illinois where our public school was or -- or did we want to do it here in the private school which was a little more expensive for us but he opted to stay here because what he wanted was to have the distance between where dad was being a representative and where he was going to school and making his because unless he shared with people in his class what was that his dad and he was just another kid in the classroom. he wasn't a special kid in the classroom so i thank you have to figure out where the best place for your kid. >> that's a great point. it talked about the challenges, i think, what we need to also share for the high points and what is about being a part of the congressional family is so exciting and makes you want to be engaged in politics even? >> well, i think, the problem today the lack of civility is that people do not appreciate and respect house of representatives and that is where we are from and realize that blood was shed several wars just to have the opportunity to get up and debate. i had the opportunity to work with john anderson from 1964 to 1967 and the job lasted for five of the six semesters and i was pizza. he had three full-time and two part-time and that was it. i saw this time he spent with his kids, john had five kids -- and respect he had for the house and then when i iran i thought what an honor and every time i raise my hand to take the oath i never get to the words. i would start weeping. ten times. [laughter] they looked at me and they said there goes that again. it was the awesome sense that maybe 11000 people in the history of this great republic had the honor and opportunity to represent literally hundreds of thousands of people and to be in a position to impact their lives and to change the course of the nation but you do it because you respect the institution. my first bill i mean, henry and i had put things in common. they were both americans. we both members of congress. we both belong to the short caucus. [laughter] that was it. we were like this with political philosophy and everything. we remember the clean air amendment of 1990. he was a [inaudible] and i said you know, i came to washington and the law had to be changed and henry was the head of the subcommittee sat down and henry talk to me and it took us six months to begin to trust each other and to overcome the institutional barriers of political partisanship and we work together to change on that and i thought that's how all laws are made. you to sit down with someone from the other side you come up with a solution. sam farr from california, sam helped me with the most massive cleanup of [inaudible] ordinance in the country. he had [inaudible] and i at 13000 acres of contamination of unexploited [inaudible] and we were like this. he got the people that were the experts to clean this site up. we never thought about who was republican or democrat. then cartons expert on insurance sat down for two hours with me walk me through how pension systems worked. it's because we reached out and said i need help and what do i do. maybe i was naïve because i never held office before but coming from a small town in practicing law in a very small county we always believed that you trust people and sometimes you make it burn but it's still worth trying to trust people because it works in the end. >> well, i would say that the highlight of spending time in congress and the experience, one, is always the people. the reason we go into politics him at least for us in our family, it's about the people. you need the most incredible people. whether that's in your district or whether that is where your colleagues are in the people you meet who are elected and in this wonderful institution, which i think it is, the u.s. congress it's the people and we did do a lot of traveling and i would say left alone again and had someone come stay with us but we did quite a bit of traveling and that was the people again. sure, the sites are nice but it's the people that you meet so for me sitting down having a discussion with mikhail gorbachev was hundred with just 12 other people in the room at his institute was incredible. i mean, or one of the presidents of bosnia and he invited me to sit at the table with the other two presidents who were discussing the issues about bosnia and we had the largest bosnian district besides bosnia and we had very many bosnian immigrants in our district. it was those things but once again we see the people. it's the people you meet that make the experience. >> that was the highlight been able to do things that made things better for people. i will never forget having a room full of mothers with kids in my office today the healthcare bill passed and they all had pre-existing conditions. there was not a dry eye in the room. things that infected people's life and i think i will always remember what [inaudible] said in orientation he said if you don't walk a little taller and feel that inspiration when you walk in the building it's time to go. it is true. there is something to me about the congress and having 435 people it's like having the country in one room and learning from each other. we are different professions and ideas from around the country and you can start off the bill that you think is one 100% great and has all the great ideas in it and go through the process if you go through the process anymore and be improved. that's the way it's supposed to work. if you can look at work then when it doesn't oftentimes it's because it's rushed or because someone is trying to monkey with that system will there's a certain beauty in something unique when you let that work and to me that has always been the fascinating challenge and opportunity about working progress. >> there is no doubt. the national archives is home to our text of america and i do and i am struck by what you're saying that the work of a representative is just that. two common represent and debate and, after said, the black america and its members. >> the problem is that the many schools today civics is not taught. the [inaudible] sandra day o'connor is teaching civics and people don't realize the extent the brilliance of the documents and the fact that lincoln practiced signing that abe lincoln but abraham lincoln because it he was so nervous that he had to fix it before he signed the emancipation proclamation. look at the documents in to see the history of this country make you not only better but makes you more civil to each other. this is we are. we have a mixture of everybody but if we study these documents defines who we are and we, the people. that was dramatic, wasn't it? [laughter] >> so, obviously, the sacrifice the excitement and enthusiasm and also humility that i think comes with something you each have shared. what i want to do is spend over the last 20 minutes opening up to the audience questions that you may have about what it means to be a congressional family not just a member of congress -- any thoughts or questions? >> so, i apologize, i guess you need to go to the microphone in the aisles so that it will be broadcast over youtube and wherever else we are like streaming. >> thank you. my question is one of the potential sacrifices and challenges is exposing your family to the public and giving privacy and in your district as you alluded you become this local celebrity family. journalists often as you questions and people in school that affects how your children are able to go through their day in school and other treated. can you talk more about how you juggle that keeping your family private while being a congressional family -- how you balance a challenge. >> i had a heart incident when we were serving and the people in my district new my heart stopped my husband in cpr and i ended up getting a hospital here and got a stent put in and it was this was a family tragedy on his own but it was a family tragedy that was being put out in the public eye and we got a lot of -- most people some e-mails of support and everyone was praying for me but i remember we got one e-mail from someone that said i'm sure that your wife must have got the cadillac of care and so i said to my husband you know, you need to write that person back very nicely and just say we called 911. [inaudible] we are not a celebrity but just a family that is in a house in america and services that are available to all the citizens and people tend to think that somehow things are a little bit smoother for you and sometimes they are smoother but every family has its ups and downs and there are things they go through and so that's a little hard sometimes to do those things with so many people wondering what is going on. >> you know, we always had a listed phone number 234 -- l obe and very seldom did a constituent call me at home. people -- they respected our privacy and living on a farm no one knows you are there and we could go into the bigger town which was 3500 and i've never been known to be a [inaudible] but -- >> people are often surprised to say your pumping your own gas and we would be like yeah, and [inaudible] >> i think it can be difficult. thank you for your question. it is something that you struggle with when you are in the public eye and with our family we had a couple generations now of being in the public eye and so it started for he became a state representative or a congressperson. i think the hardest part was when and here's an example from and i'll bring it up. when my father-in-law was governor running for the u.s. senate and my brother-in-law were killed in an airplane crash and that was very public. it went worldwide. you are dealing with your own grief in your own tragedy and my children were very young. they were eight and 12. it was very difficult. it was difficult for the people of the state so you have to understand that they identify with you and your family and that many of them have loved you and supported you and watched you grow up in life or watched your kids grow up in so they identify with you. we are always very cautious and careful you also realize that people are wanting to understand the people are wanting to know. it's not always bad. it's just something that goes with the territory. so it is difficult and sometimes you go to your kids and you need to be extra careful because it may not be fair that you'll get in the newspaper if you get a speeding ticket and someone else won't but believe me you will be in the newspaper and there will be an article for a speeding ticket and it's not fair but it is there and so they have some extra burdens next responsibilities as members of our family. >> i always said that if in the public eye and we've had some friendly highs and one of the things in some very difficult things but the thing i think i enjoy the most because there are so many misperceptions about what it means to be in elected office to break some of those perceptions and everyday things or the public appearances like the gaveling we go out shopping. [laughter] or i'm driving my own beat up pickup truck. so those are things that i think they humanize you but it's fun to surprise people in those ways. in the 2010 elections when you had some of the bizarre things going on we had death threats spray-painted on our house in our cars in the casket put in our front yard and the bizarre things that you never even think of but that is the kind of range of things you go through in the public eye but the most part it's positive and negative things you have to deal with it and go on. >> think you'll. >> i just had a technical question you were a senior democrat with and what does the wit do? >> it's a great visual. if you can picture trying to out people and whip them into place to get them to do what they need to do in a key vote is coming up it really is part messaging to members with the key vote comes up and part just good old-fashioned math and counting heads when books are coming up. that is what the tradition of the whip title came from. >> i'm glad you weren't steve scalise. that was another very touching moment in congressional life. >> thank you for your question. >> i know neither of you are in progress anymore but dealing with this president and the way he chooses to communicate through tweets and showmanship and people worked up all around what would you suggest to your colleagues and what can spouses and families do to help turn the temperature down and bring people together so they can get the work of government on? >> that is the question of the day, i think. part of it is being civil and trying to find common sense solutions to get things done. one of the frustrations about what people see in washington is it looks like a fight rather than people who are wanting to get things done. to do a bipartisan event even though. a different part of the country and you may vote differently 90% of the time you find those issues you have common ground and you get things done. that to me is the best way to show an alternative. >> i think social media has done more to destroy this country and at one time if you had an argument you would pick up a phone and call them or look at them. >> to write a letter. >> and now we have facebook it was just nasty and the sky i said why should i provide a forum at taxpayers expense for someone to get on their in swear and to say all this ugly stuff. i think that social media has generated and spawned a legitimate irreverent behavior. and they get away with it. no one holds people accountable that. whenever i counsel a young person was getting ready to go to college and look for a job i say i have hired a lot of people and it always say if you used the f bomb on the internet you will never get hired in my office. ever. watch what you say. if you say something that is hateful because a man speaks what is in his heart and the best thing that you can do if you plan to be a future employment is to check and see what they do on the internet. it's destructive what people are saying and they're getting away with it because nowadays there's no accountability for irreverent behavior. it's not an age thing because trump is 71. >> and our leaders have to be civil and i think that is a concern that russ and i have. the american public has that concern. when you are a leader it's one thing that social media and i agree with you very much but we cannot come as leaders, allow ourselves to go down to that level because we are elected to come here and work together and to figure out how to get things done and when you have people at the top speaking this way and degrading people and being personally destructive this makes the term politics of the personal destruction wow, that was nothing, you know, this is really bad. i think we need to hold our leaders accountable and not -- >> hold parents accountable to stop their kids from getting involved in the trash. >> so, what i'm thinking about is i don't want to get too far in talking about the present day because i do think one of the things that is very interesting about the time we are in is it is like watching a car crash. you can't not look and we all keep looking and so even every conversation is up being about this and this is where one of the things you might want to think about in tonight would be an interesting place to start imagining this is how do we think spouses and congressional families could maybe think about ways to do things together to show legacy and generation in history and reverence for what it means maybe there is some sort of role for the former member of congress association to bring more former members and their families and their spouses together in a bipartisan way across the country. >> that is a really good points. as you were talking and i was thinking there's a lot that we already do together and the spouses who are international clubs in the first lady luncheon and i at least know with former first lady michelle obama we always went out and did a public service of some type republican and democrat and these are all bipartisan groups. it was amazing, too, how we shared with each other and then i would say russ, did you know about this and did you know this because i learned about it from one of the other spouses and he be like now i never even knew about that. i don't think, to your point, how do you get this out there? i don't think the individual offices talking of about what the spouses are doing with the families are doing and is that in the newsletter and does that get put out there and deborah this month was with fellow democrats and republican is working on this project and it was dialogue about this. i think we should promote that more and it's all behind-the-scenes stuff that we know about but the public just sees the nasty nasty side of the sausage making and not the compatibility and as we were talking earlier the hard work that goes on to make this happ happen. >> i deeply believe there are two things we need. we need to humanize the people who work in politics we need to demystify the jobs they do and so i do think that even you be here tonight sharing his experiences about what it was like for you to work together as partners spouses and members of the family those are all important ideas. >> i want to share with the former members are organization had a program called congress to campus and we are at penn state and any reliance here tonight? [laughter] >> and it's always [inaudible] >> and when we talk about experiences and the kids are shocked that members of different parties can speak to each other and get along. i think that program goes right to the got of demonstrating to the college students that there is not one double on one side and angel on the other side. the fact that people can indicate and talk and respect each other and have this decency and that is new for a lot of kids because there is a thinking today that it is cool to be in-flight and rude but that and that should be accepted and that has become a norm in this program it breaks the chains of that because all of a sudden they see two people who are in congress at the same time talk about talk about the sacrifice and the bills they were gone to make life better for people including the kids that are there. >> there is competition out there in news and when you have the latest tweet or congressional right on one hand to meeting of democrats and the publicans getting along you know it will be in the news. how do you get that message out there that there is value in that in that it does happen. you just don't hear about it in the news very often. >> let's face it, every single business actually requires cooperative work. i think one of the allusions is this idea that anyone does anyone thing alone. it doesn't matter whether you're in a corporation or in congress or whether you're in an educational institution. when i write a journal article many, many people have read it and respond to it and critiqued it before it was published. all of that is a cooperative process and so i do think that what you are talking about is how you can work together and engage each other and engage more people in the process is positive. getting back just to the family thing one last sort of thought if there was one thing that you could do more when you were in politics and, what would it be? and if there was one thing you could do less, and i already know the answer to this because they always said, what would it be? and what was your favorite part of the campaign or the politics? that's only the people but in the what sort of things did you like? did you enjoy the town halls, did you enjoy the weekend with your constituents or did you learn a lot from lobbyist which is another profession often derided but it is protected in our constitution which most people don't realize and it is truly a profession of education and so i think there are a lot of jobs that one does when they are a representative. the other party pulling on them and they have their district pulling on them they have different members asking them to do different things, committee assignments and all these different priorities. i am curious what were the tasks you enjoyed both as a member and as a spouse and what were the things you wished you didn't have to do? >> i will start with the positive first. i know is that it's not the people but the part i enjoyed the most was meeting the people that came into the office to discuss issues and as often as i can be there and especially russ would make sure and staff was making sure that if folks were coming in to talk with russ on the issues that i have expertise in court that i cared about and had developed some expertise in they made sure to let me know. if there were like a woman's group that was coming in from rwanda and it was a legal issue than what was happening there and they knew that form was going on they would be like do you want to go with us and we these women and talk with them so it was constantly a wonderful education process, you know. i felt like a sponge getting all this information about these wonderful different subjects by people who really knew what they were talking about. i still think that is the most wonderful part of it. you might find this funny coming from the spouse but the part i'd like to do less is fundraising. because i did a lot of fundraising and i would spend time phone and i would do fundraisers and it takes up so much of your time, the members and the spouse, depending on if you wanted to do that or not and from what you really enjoy doing and what they really think you're there to do so, you. >> i would say my favorite part is what i would call the art of politics. that is taking an idea of bringing in experts for constituents that know about it shaping that into something and then building a coalition around. to me that is the most and just one example we had our local chapter of the ms society came to my office and they talked about the need for research and they had identified the congressionally directed medical research and the department of defense that they had never funded ms research and so we put together a coalition works on the members and their national group that became down to a republican partner who a republican that paid almost nothing in common with but we teamed up on this issue and we created the first funding to that and to me that is anything that is the challenge and the opportunity and that art of politics bringing people together to make something happen and of course, my least favorite is fundraising (. >> i bet i will get four out of four on that. >> i don't think anybody likes the fundraising. >> i do (. >> i would say that i would agree with you that it's the people you meet and likewise if someone was coming into the office that was he knew i would be interested in the topic i would come and because i came from a medical technology background a lot of people that came in with health issues i was really interested in those and the greatest satisfaction you get is when someone comes in with a problem that they just haven't been able to solve and they are frustrated and you realize that you can do something about that that you can put the wheels in motion and get them connected with the people that are going to help them in the you just feel like you can do a lot of good people. we had someone in our district that have been trying to adopt a child from the philippines and it really run into a snag with that and when it finally came to our attention we were able to get in touch with the ambassador from the philippines and make it happen. after waiting five years they finally -- it finally came to be in that little girl is living in illinois with the family that loves her. those are the things that -- i think now we are back home people, and he will tell you that they have a problem you still have the size and you still steer them for they can get help but you feel helpless because you're not a representative anymore and you can help them quite as much. >> i think you know, aside from fundraising and no one likes that i set my priorities when i was elected and i have no regrets and anything in one of my parties was to spend a lot of time with the students from the national high school group that would -- a couple of them. >> you call them the presidential class. >> you and another one like that. i would spend one hour with the kids and i would move heaven and earth and to get them in and i miss them when we get the number at home and i get on the phone with them to talk to the 16 -year-old for about an hour on the phone and her mother said she's my biggest fan she couldn't even vote for me. [laughter] but the opportunity for investment to bend the twig in the the opportunities to shape and mold i got that institute intern from china and i had the opportunity today to explain to him what vitamins did not know why so many in america that so many different opinions said boss, i don't understand that and it was the most remarkable opportunity. i chair the us china [inaudible] and took 18 members occurs at the johns hopkins university in managing and the young chinese students about 200 students have american trainees and young chinese students it up and said do you think that china is ready for freedom and is ready for democracy? for christmas from new jersey is the most brilliant of the doctrine of natural law that explaining the source of liberty to this training students and you can't envision the opportunities that we have is members of congress and i look back and make them is to spend time with these young people and that is the greatest reward in my life as a member of congress that presidents travel all of the world but no time was spent anymore fortunately than with those 16 -year-olds wanting to know about the nature of this country. course, we always send them to the deferment of art (. >> so, i think that are there any last questions, please go to the microphone and will wrap up. >> i am from ukraine so i'm an international and i have a different perspective. he had an amazing point on the integration of independence and as a person from ukraine were newly democratic and i don't see any of our politicians having the governance to work slow as you do. i bet you there are people from ukraine especially politicians with that there are watches would be half million dollars and that is what has caused democracy in europe. my question is both of you serve on foreign committees as a family and what was it like dealing with foreign counterparts and what do you think the us can do better to export the values abroad? >> the chinese counterparts was extraordinarily difficult that they were hard people but the head definition of the world can work freedom. it just was not in their vocabulary. the mere fact that we could talk about the things and even then the president, government, by saying something like that it amazed them. they couldn't believe we had that much freedom to criticize the government. >> i served on the subcommittee national organization for the bears as we dealt with a lot of those foundations and there are several parts of the that were meaningful. first my staff had to talk me out of getting involved in the foreign affairs committee because they said what does that have to do with your district? a lot. if you have businesses involved in international trade for your students going to universities all of the world and you have ethnic groups that care about other parts of the world so we were always able to tie those issues back to our district and state. but we also learn things. it was an exchange radius. we learn things about germany and been way ahead of us clean energy and you learn things share ideas and you have some problems so in america we don't have a monopoly on good ideas but we have to be open to those in so we share our experience with other countries and how we deal with things and finally i would say it's just relationships they really matter and around the world and building those to the congress and other parliament and somehow they are our best allies in other countries our leaders with had an experience in the united states and they have come here as an exchange student preventing one of our universities and so they understand us a little bit and their other peoples in other countries with had those experiences that it really improves that relationship so it's thing and it and an important function for congress. >> i will also say that so that you know alexander hamilton at one point in time was very frustrated and i think it was 18 oh 14 he died he her to the constitution as the braille fabric that is the constitution. i would argue that part of what is going on in the brain is just new. newness is hard to create legitimacy and tradition and the one big advantage we have now is we have over 200 years of tradition and history. trust me, not all of it was outstanding or call or civil. there was a number of congress did shoot another individual on the steps of capitol hill and got away with it. life has been motorists at times. and last thoughts? >> i would say that people need to be encouraged to run for public office. that is not true. there are a lot of people that are afraid they run for office that someone would dig up dirt on them. you run for public office in your public life is an extension of your personal. you don't live a divided and try to live as a person of integrity and to take those values and promote them. we have a good friend back home with her blood disease. she's in a which he or she sleeps in an iron lung tonight and she needs a 24 hour caretaker and she on is running to be on the board of supervisors of dane county in madison, wisconsin. what an extraordinary thing and i look at her and say she decided to get involved and she can't even wield her own wheelchair. she thanks that much about america than she will get involved to make a difference with her physical disability much more the rest of us americans should use that as an example of what people are willing to do to have their voice heard. >> i would echo that the importance of weather were in office or out telling our story about what a difference it can make and that it is not it is not just something everyone to be involved in. you can be involved in volunteering for a campaign for working in an office there are lots of ways you can make a difference in the committee and i think telling stories are a great way to do that. we are seeing new generation of people engaging in the that is good for our country. >> i want to thank the former members having this forum and were certainly to ask you to be a part of it and the national archives -- >> thought. >> oh, yeah, we are (. [inaudible conversations] >> and our dues our current. [laughter] >> because this is something that is talked about but not always given the public forum to discuss that this lifestyle is a unique lifestyle and certainly their husbands and wife to work together. we have another place that are currently working together but in the congress and in politics it's unique and it does take a village. it does take family and it really does matter and i think that is why i think i was struck first came to congress much support it i felt was there for the spouses and for the families and that they really tried hard to be elusive in support. i just wanted to say this was a great forum and thank you and if you ever want me back just holler at me. [laughter] >> i will say thank you to you, too. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> i thank you for sharing personal stories estimate. thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> there are several investment policies for network scheduled for tonight and tomorrow. admiral michael rogers, us cyber command, commander appeared today before the senate armed services committee president 2019 cyber command budget request. will be able to project starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern. at 10:00 p.m. on c-span federal reserve chair jerome powell testimony on a semiannual monetary policy report to the house financial services committee. that's a 10:00 p.m. eastern on her continue network, c-span. tomorrow members of congress will take part in the ceremony honoring the late reverend billy graham. reverend graham will lie in honor then in the us capitol rotunda. live coverage of that begins at 11:00 a.m. eastern also on c-span. >> wednesday on c-span's landmark cases. we will explore this rights case of 1883 the supreme court decision that struck down the civil rights act of 1875, a federal law that granted all people access to public accommodations like trains and theaters regardless of race. explore this case and the high court's ruling with danielle holly walker, dean of howard university law school and peter attorney and member of the us commission on school rights. watch landmark cases life monday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span .org or listen with the free c-span radio app. the background on each case we watch order your copy of the landmark cases and in book. it's available for $8.95 plus shipping and handling it c-span .org/landmark cases. and for additional resources there's a link to the website to the national constitution center's interactive constitution. >> senators now at their weekly party lunch meetings and their back