course, thank you for taking the time and i will think all of you for your interest in the center. [applause] stick i used to be chaired the québec profession have a lot of experience. i know we can do more to help that. >> harper. >> i'm not sure how you have a secret meeting. >> i know you mentioned it. under the first 10 years b.c. family costs rise. it went down by nearly 50% and for the first few years of office they cut back immigration levels. people understand the liberal party talks again but didn't deliver. we 2.5 million newcomers who are overwhelmingly contributing and their entrepreneurs, family people growing our economy, working hard and this is one of the most positive things we are able to control illegal immigration to have the best record on success in immigration anywhere in the world. >> mr. harper has demonstrated over the past week in the case of refugees, canada is not doing enough and this is something mr. harper has unfortunately done a number of times. he loves to talk about standing up against tyrant and peterson terrorists. family is fighting to keep their families together, hoping for a better life than they make it to canada. mr. harper takes away their health care. the fact is we need to once again be a country open and welcoming. we don't take that as the excuse to close their doors. in years past the prime minister brought in tens of thousands of vietnamese boat people whether other governments welcomed in people to contribute to the country, and we need to be an open generous country, not naïve come and make sure we're doing security right but not an excuse to do less than we should than the vast majority of canadians feel we should. >> mr. harper, let's bring it back. >> limit correct the record. first of all, the fact of the matter is we do not take away health care. on the contrary the only time we removed to desmond had clearly bogus claimants refused and they do not offer them a better health care plan than -- >> that is not true, mr. harper. >> -- canadians agree with. this remains one of the largest countries in the world. i is that we will bring in more. these guys would've had in the last debate during open borders and hundreds of thousands of people coming without any security document. that would have been an enormous mistake. >> fears of others, fears of communities. we have a prime minister who -- >> let's go to mr. mulcair. canadians want a prime minister who understand the sense of urgency we all feel when we see syria. unfortunately they fear mongering. any of the parties opened the door without any regard. rick hillier who is no less an authority, former chief of defense staff last week said we've got to stop using security concerns as an excuse to do nothing. mr. harper, what do you stop using security excuse as a pretense to do not mean. >> nobody wants to let anybody in. >> we are bringing in more quickly. we are providing support because under the refugee policy, the vast majority will remain in those countries and need our assistance. those are the things we're doing. >> 46,000 over the next four years. that's the united nations. >> that is not the reckless roach. [inaudible] >> canada has done more in the past. we need to do more right now. >> the next topic is housing. mr. trudeau, canadians have been on it are awaiting binge to to buy more expensive homes. what would she do to guard against the housing bubble? >> for many canadians come at the entire security is in their home. is there saving and retirement. when it to make sure while housing prices rise, incomes are rising as well. middle-class canadians believe their job are giving them better and better salaries that they can get raises. we need to create economic growth at the same pace as house values and that is not what mr. harper is delivered. there are many other canadians facing challenges around housing because they can't find rental houses to the liberal party has a plan to increase investment in home can section of rental units to help seniors at the cost of rent by increasing gis and making sure we give people support needed to get their homes in on that economic security. >> would you restrict foreign ownership of residential homes? >> one of the tngs we see his concerns on that. the fact is we don't have enough accurate data to understand what's happening. the reason is mr. harper is chosen to cut and that leaves us with less understanding. the liberal party is committed to restoring to ensure we have the kind of data to respond like you speak of peer but we need to be with municipalities to address challenges faced like vancouver or toronto but the challenges felt across the country and struggling to find rental housing and need help to get the economic ladder that has been there for canadians that hasn't been over the past 10 years. mr. mulcair, what would you do to displease metaclasses high mortgage and high property taxes. >> the first thing i canadians should recall is the last time liberals were in power they canceled canada's national housing strategy. it's also worth knowing 35,000 homeless in canada right now. what we would do and i gave an example earlier of quality affordable childcare. heritage around to another's goodies, parents pay over $20,000 a year and young people today have the largest that. they were thinking of having a say in it but they look at the cause of balancing their life and family and work. at six every difficult. leucovorin in the pockets of quality affordable child care and bring in as a model for others with regard to the 100,000 people the federal minimum wage of $15 an hour. >> open florida mr. harper. >> no doubt some people are over extended. the housing stories of positive stories in this country. look around the world where there have been financial and other crashes. a lot of it centered around the housing market in canada the leasing homeownership arise because people have been able to take advantage of lower interest rates when their child process is solid and good in incomes growing. that's a positive canadians story we should celebrate. how to read the unstable global economy continue to protect that going forward? legally specific and sensitive we bring forward and improvements to the home buyers plan and the contributions to allow people to save and invest more in their homes. what we do not need when our economy is threatened his tax increases on the ordinary canadian families and they are not good for homeowners. >> he hasn't been able to get it done for 10 years. so we know how to grow the economy. we invest in the economy once again. interest rates are low, debt to gdp is slow and economic growth has been flat. when you do kick starter, mid-october you're going to do so people can get better jobs and afford their homes. that is where we help. mr. mulcair talking about childcare: effect of a young family with a 2-year-old doesn't childcare or eight years from now when their kid in grade five. they need it right away. mr. mulcair is not making investments. we know right now to invest in the future of this country. you could make jokes all you like. this is canadians having trouble making a meet and you are offering a natural minimum wage that will not touch 99%. >> you had 13 years the last time you were in power to get to childcare. they created zero. the least we can say is that wasn't a priority. quality affordable child care -- if the province has taken billions of dollars. >> what message do you get to no one else today trying to get on the property run? >> we've got a prime minister who thinks it's a good idea that a bungalow in a lot of suburbs in places like vancouver and toronto was totally out of reach. look at the cost of major cities. it is out of control. at the same time, mr. harper said okay. how do you rent a house you can afford to buy in the first place? will put affordable quality child care and give her raise to 100,000 people earning the federal minimum wage or less. and $15 an hour minimum wage is not only good for them. it's a good fit to do the same thing and bring up the living wage because somebody who works full time shouldn't living in poverty. >> mr. mulcair, i've spoken to an awful lot working minimum wage. coffee shops in the grocery checkout lines and you give them false hope. >> mr. trudeau -- we have people working in banks >> you have -- [inaudible conversations] >> earning the minimum wage -- >> mr. trudeau voted for this september 22nd. now he's campaigning against it. >> the false promises you were making -- [inaudible conversations] >> -- the election is showing it. >> we are not reinvent home renovation tax credit to help families reach and build their first home in the first time home buyers plan. we've done a lot of things to encourage homeownership in terms of rising cost and the possibility foreign speculation we are prepared to act on that if the data shows that it's really a problem. we are doing things to help canadian families. we deliver to canadian families. now we enhance it. we increased adoptions. [inaudible] [inaudible] >> mr. harper and mr. mulcair agree on one thing. mr. harper is used to be checked to millionaires because they have children. we don't think that's fair. we are going to stop sending checks to people who don't need it civic and send larger checks to families who do need it in the 315,000 kids out of poverty. that will make a significant difference in the lives of people who need it. >> you don't have enough money. >> final topic. >> we address this to you first. you say you will raise corporate tax rate from 15% to 17%. what economic rather than political reason justifies your decision. >> mr. reid and mr. harper have a single-minded approach printable send conservatconservat ives believe tens of billions of dollars in tax reductions to the most profitable corporations was the way to go. hasn't worked out so well. there are 300,000 more people unemployed today than when the first recession hit. they go back to something resembling their fair share. it would be less than it was under mr. harper's conservatives and well below under the liberals. we are asking all canadians to pay their fair share. at the same time we are not going to wait. we will produce taxes on canvas job creators and create 80% of new jobs and that we think is a good idea. we will also close loopholes because those are the types that exist for the rich. >> or corporations moved money elsewhere. the loser balanced budget and revenue. >> that's what he worked at the same time against tax savings. we've had cases or other authorities and countries have given canadians using illegal tax havens and mr. harper has done nothing about that. the nep will make sure the wealthiest pay their fair share. when we made that announcement, we let that the successive years of promises by the liberals talking about millennial goals to raise children out of poverty. in a country as wealthy as canada, hundreds of thousands go to school every morning. we will take $500 million for stock option tax loophole kids and dedicate dollar for dollar to let children and families out of poverty. direct action to act on the problem others have talked about. can and i will start paying something resembling their fair share and it's high time they did. their approach has failed and it doesn't work and we'll change it. >> mr. harper, you won't raise taxes. have you raise federal revenue? >> as you know we've cut business taxes and corporate tax revenues are rising because we have an environment that attracts investment. i go back to a mulcair is saying. why is the canadian federation and other experts and his rental cost job loss because in fact he raises taxes and the sameness everywhere. they claim they will bring in billions of spending dollars through tax increase and we end up with job loss. that's what we had with the nep in british columbia and we see exactly the same story inoperative. a round of layoffs because of oil prices and that the business tax increase and then stable economy we have competitive tax rates. this is something we need to protect our economy and create creating jobs. permanent deficits do not create jobs. >> mr. harper is talking about the round of layoffs in alberta and that is why we have a plan to invest kind of support now there's an opportunity and thousands of people are out of work with skills to work in building our country right now and in the years to come. on taxes we've been very clear. canadians pay enough in taxes except the middle class to pay less taxes and the wealth he is canadian should pay more. i will do what my two opponents will not. however as taxes on the wealthiest 1% silica and cut them for the middle class. mr. mulcair likes to talk about fair share. he will do nothing to tax bank executives who get high salaries because cutting corporate taxes will hire more people and their economy. >> we will lose jobs. >> mr. trudeau's very first vote in parliament seven years ago was to back mr. harper's corporate tax giveaway and one of his most recent and last votes in parliament was to vote for c. 51 which seriously compromises the right and freedoms. that's leadership. >> you are playing the same politics of division and fear. mr. harper wants to talk about and pretend suddenly went for it that the charter in a police state. both of those are politics of fear they refuse to accept because they need to protect canadian security and defend rights and freedom. on taxes we have a plan to lift 315,000 kids out of poverty by you rethink child benefit payment to families who need it and we will ask the wealthiest to pay more so they can lower class taxes for the middle class. this is something neither mr. mulcair now mr. harper will do. it's not about politics. it's doing the right thing, recognizing the tenures of mr. harper hasn't been the growth canadians need and they are actually going to create opportunities for themselves, families, communities. >> absolutely not. let me be clear. the federal tax burden on small business is down 40% will go down further. we brought in things like 11 million canadians are benefiting from. over 6 million adults benefit from that. we bring in a home renovation tax credit to millions of people will be able to use and we enhance savings plans registered disability savings. the broadest tax cut you could bring in with every single canadian. this is why "the new york times" ran an article that compared disposable income moving ahead of everyone else is falling a hind because we make sure we have more money in people's pockets and we are the only party not talking about raising taxes going forward and this is the kind of player we need and then comes in and hampers employer with an enormous payroll tax increase. >> mr. harper is talking about this as well in common. we just thought that almost 165%. canadians are more indebted now than it's ever been. we need a government to create opportunities for canadians by investing in child care spaces, by investing in support for flood planes mitigation, green infrastructure that will create the jobs going forward that we know we need. we have a plan to invest. we are going to run modest deficit the next three years because byron has never been cheaper because of low-interest rates, debt to gdp ratio is helping going lower and the economy is flat and canadian new jobs. we have a plan to kickstart the economy to make it easier for people who want to join the middle class to succeed. that's what we are putting forward and right now neither mr. harper were mr. mulcair has a plan to do that. >> mr. mulcair said he puts it off. >> mr. trudeau recently set a large percentage of small business owners were taxed cheap. the small business owner should be reminded to all of us create more than 80% of the new jobs in our country. they deserve a tax break that will help create jobs. >> or you are selecting $500 million. >> that is not the experience i've seen. >> thank you. while the leaders catch their breath, we will move to the second part of the evening. this has a different page to it. it is that in the old days the electorate is to choose their representatives, but not data becomes more sophisticated, politicians are able to choose as well as ignore key demographics. it affects everything from policy to selection to the politicians choose to talk to. wish me luck as i try to push the waiters off their nose and the opportunity to ask themselves more thoroughly and hopefully with fewer interruptions from others. i will ask each later a specific question followed by an exchange between myself and not later before turning to open debate. they had no prior knowledge of these questions. we'll start with mr. mulcair. do you lead a party that is never ran the country. why should the electorate and the national economy to you? >> thank you commend david. that is the key question after 150 years of being told we have no choice what this scandal we have two alternate route to the conservative and when we get tired, for the first time in our history there's another choice. according to canada's own finance department has the best record for a balanced budget. tommy douglas took over the providence of saskatchewan and bankruptcy and ran 17 consecutive balanced budgets and brought in medicare. i come from a family of 10 kids. we lived within our means. we took care of each other. those are the values that have guided me as a father, grandfather and has been. i'm proud of the saudis that guide me in the future. we are a party -- people are top priority. we brought in medicare and affordable quality child care across canada. >> her biography is entitled strength of conviction. is your determination not simply opportunism way? >> it is something that reflects how i've been as a public administrator. at that in public life for 35 years. i practiced law as a lawyer for 10 years but i've always serve the public give my wife catherine is a psychologist who works in long-term care. our older son is a police officer. her youngest son is a college professor. i think there is no more noble calling. i want to make sure we do the right name for my granddaughter goes to university she does not devour the level young people are today. i don't want to do like mr. trudeau and that the massive debt. but the determination for a balanced budget is something that is a challenge to the fabric. our fabric understands with the example of tommy douglas. we know the only way to bring in something as important as affordable child care is to build a solid foundation and that means balanced budget. there will be times when you have to spend win 2008 we're in the worst recession. that is not the case now. we are already leaving them in massive ecological and social debt. they don't need the economic dead as well. >> this is a recurring issue as we enter the last part of the debate. that is what all of your visions are for this great country. but mr. mulcair will you do to build a new economy? spam that we will make sure it's a knowledge-based economy because that's the way of the future. canada has to be playing a more overall. when i travel across the country on what we call a kitchen table to her, i met a young couple in between them they had $130,000 of student data. with a $24,000 to your child care fees, when is the young couple supposed to start a family? that is the reality and believe it or not for the couple in the economy. let's get this right for the future and make sure we get priorities straight. my prayer is doing we did with medicare. it helped canadian families for generations and that's why we want to make sure the social programs on it all exciting. >> was good to be open for part of this. >> mr. mulcair keeps talking about investing in doing the right things for families who need help if you can't afford a plan for investment like my plan on stephen harper's budget. it takes the optimism to invest in our future to know canadians are capable of building a stronger future and after the low growth it's time to kickstart the economy. that is why worried about saddling my kids with a lack of job, lack of infrastructure and lack of future because the government didn't want to invest in our country. this is what our plan is all about. building a stronger future, mr. mulcair has made balancing train for his budget is priority, which means he can't give canadians the help they need the way we will. i have been straight and honest. mr. mulcair's plan is to do but we know politicians of all parties including male and have in the past which is we will balance the boat and the numbers are worse than we thought. we have to break her promise. that's not what i'm going to do. we are going to run three deficits and invest in the future canadian need right now. >> look, the whole point of mr. mulcair sinus in the balance the budget. they left ontario in a massive deficit, british columbia and a massive deficit. alberta's deficit has gotten larger sense they took office. bit of saskatchewan in a deficit because tax hikes do not grow the economy. they kill jobs and hurt revenue. we don't want to go down that path. mr. trudeau says we will have greater spending more. we don't measure a bubble of optimism through level of spending. we make sure we make investments with the things we need as we are doing here at infrastructure, training, innovation in the way we can continue to afford without raising taxes by having a balance budget. .. the former and chair of the bank of canada, a list of the former parliamentary budget officers. there are many people who have said now is the time to invest and that's exactly what the liberals are going to do. not because we're cheery and optimistic up because when the countries that believe in the future are willing to invest in their future. >> where the largest infrastructure investment in history right now including major public transit announcements including right in the city. >> at election time, mr. harper. it will see through your game. >> to look at the numbers. we are doing that without raising taxes and without borrowing money. mr. trudeau says he is politicians tell him it's okay to spend more. those people will tell you always just been more. you've got to be able as a prime minister went to safeguard taxpayers -- >> our plan is based on long-term vision. we know what has to be accomplished if we are not doing like the liberals whether short-term approach leaving tens of billions of dollars on the backs of future generations. mr. trudeau, you're talking before about stephen harper's budget but you voted for stephen harper's budget. i can guarantee you i have never voted for want of his budgets and your very first vote as a member of parliament was to vote for his tax giveaway to canada's largest corporations. i can guarantee you that jack layton and i thought that every single step of the way. >> i think what we are saying tonight is an extraordinary exchange of ideas between -- into the and the liberal party. i want to turn this one over to the mr. trudeau. taxing the richest and then spending it, why should canadians are already up to the eyes and to be encouraged to buy your message? >> we are raising taxes on the wealthiest 1% so that we can lower them, so we can cut them for the middle class. that is the shift with you when you. mr. mulcair talks that income inequality. you could hear entity talk about all the time, except they are not doing anything about it. only the liberal party is going to ask people who have been very successful to do a little bit more so we can put money in the pockets of people who actually need it. that's what our approach is. but on top of that and aside from that we're also going to make historic investment in the future of our country because canadians need transit, they need roads, bridges, we need clean water and wastewater treatment systems. we need things that will create good jobs for canadians know as they build them and their jobs and prosperity going forward as our communities do better. that's what investing in our future is all about and that's not left or right. that's what candidate needs. >> we know you propose what is really fairly modest deficit against the $2 trillion national economy. what do you consider to be the biggest single challenge you face? because when i look for the cost of your platform, i can't add it up. >> we were the first party to put out a fully costed framework that said we can get it going to run three modest deficits over the first three years so we can balance the books in 2019. what canada needs right now is growth. what we need because mr. harper has been unable to deliver it having the worst growth record of any prime minister said the depth of the great recession is a plan to grow the economy. you do that by investing in our communities, in transit, and green infrastructure come in the kinds of things that are going to contribute spee-1 let's go back to your idea of an infrastructure back. recreational centers, water facilities, are these areas part of the federal government's role. >> the federal provincial in a country like canada is to be a partner serving citizens with communities, and is about a lease and with provinces. we will respond to the needs that canadians have on the ground to improve their quality of life to build better opportunities. that is what the federal can should be. that's not what the federal government has been over the past decade as mr. harper has refused to engage with provinces, estaban a solid partner to municipalities into transit and infrastructure investments that are needed and that's what we're going to turn around. >> we are in alberta. there's clear since the structural change does happen to the economy. so again for yourself what we do, what are your policies to build a new economy? >> one of the facts we are looking at right now is because of the challenges with low oil prices, with construction and engineering multinational firms here in calgary who are suddenly bidding on local contracts that they've never had the bandwidth to do before. this is the time to invest in your hometown, mr. harper. you need to step up and we need to step up as a government and be there for you municipalities like calgary who are trying to create new avenues of opportunity given physical nature of our commodities. this is exactly a vote to invest when interest rates are low, when our debt to gdp is will and when economy has been flat for 10 years because mr. harper hasn't stepped up for his hometown or for any more across the country. >> let's go to open floor, mr. harper. >> if i could respond to the. as i said before we are making record investment in our infrastructure right now including a federal infrastructure programs that is rolling out across the country. let's be frank about mr. trudeau's plan. the reason is running deficits is not because he some economics philosophy. he would run the country and promised for more money than he had and found out taxing the wealthy people a little bit does not cover the. now he's trying to run same deficits are good thing. we did work to make sure we came out of deficits after the great recession without cutting our social programs. this is a guaranteed people. when we have lowered your taxes they will stay down in the investments we make our sustainable. when mr. trudeau gets us off the anchor of a balanced budget for no apparent reason, we know, liberals have done that, that goes on forever and it gets worse and that is not a risk you or our economy in this fragile economic environment can afford. >> you run deficits in good years. you run deficits in bad years. the only time you said the deficit are not going to be run using election years. fact of the matter is you stood on stage is like these, look at canadians three times and promised not to bring in deficits. that's exactly what you've done. the reason we are stuck in deficits for so long is because you don't understand that giving tax breaks and benefits to the wealthiest canadians is not a way to grow the economy anymore. we have low growth. you at the worst job creation record since world war ii company prime minister, and that's what canadians are feeling. you are disconnected from people's reality. we need to get this country investing in its own future and that's what you have not done in 10 years. >> we ran surpluses before we had the global financial crisis. when the global financial crisis came everyone in the world ran deficits. we are not intersecting got a balanced budget. why would we return to the deficits now when we have an unstable global economy and the need to make sure we can assure people that benefits of -- >> mr. mulcair. >> back on july 19, mr. trudeau gave a press conference at which he said he would balance the books, he would run balanced budget nonstop. >> not nonstop. >> a few weeks after that he announced he would run $10 billion a year in deficits. you just turn say the same thing. he was clearly criticizing the fact that mr. harper had run deficits but that's exactly what he's going to do. i think it's only fair to say when you're advisors tell you one thing and another and they're totally contradictory, pick one. you just can't say to both. with regard -- your first vote in canadian parliament was to vote for mr. harper's tax cuts for the wealthy. now you're against -- >> i am looking straight at canadians and being honest the way i always have. we said we're committed to balanced budgets and we are. we were balance that budget in 2019 because canadians need investment and -- [talking over each other] >> i'm sorry, mr. harper, when you said that with the provincial ministers and announced you were going to be cutting the funding formula i up to $36 billion for health care, that's called cutting social programs. >> let's be absolutely on what the facts are. under this govern our transfers for the help for the province have risen -- >> what you're planning to do, mr. harper -- >> that number will grow every single year into the future. we will hit over 40 billion by the end of the decade. >> that security from 65 to 67. you made that announcement to billionaires in the swiss alps. is that political courage? >> what we have done -- >> you are cutting social programs. >> -- most valuable seniors and a quarter century. mr. mulcair you like to talk about the facts. you voted against small business tax cuts. he voted against tax cuts are working people. [talking over each other] >> mr. mulcair has talked about -- he just at the back of the promise he promised to increase health care transfers and said balancing the books is more important to that's not what canadians -- >> thank you. we now move to the final question of the debate and the ghost of mr. harper. mr. harper, you will need some new ideas. the reality is the oil patch resources in general are going to be a smaller part of the canadian economy. it is clear under your watch canada is to longer an international champion on many different data points. we have record household debt. we have minimal growth, in many cases with stagnant wages. why do you deserve more time? >> let me be clear on that. those things are just, i don't accept what you just said. you look over the past 10 years whether its income growth, job growth, we have done better than all the major economy. and asthma great because we're living in a terribly unstable and risky global economy. right now a portion of our economy has been hard hit by the fall in oil prices. that concerned me. it affects people i know personally. we will do something about that but to suggest that for a second that has been called is to our policy is just false. our policy is based on what i call the three keys and the three is, taxes, keeping them down, making them competitive. training, investing particularly in things that we know there's labor demands for any future. trade, opening up markets between now to trade agreement government assigned will have any future. accessed over half of global gdp. investing in innovation with our manufacturers. reforming our immigration system to make it more effective for our economy and making record investments in infrastructure. that's why i believe the canadians are optimistic as they look at the future. >> what do you say to the auto sector i should look at the pacific trade plan? >> well look we know the auto sector has concerns on that particular as to others but what i say is this. we are entering the final stages of a great discussion in the asia-pacific that i think frank is going to conclude successfully, that is going to be the basis of the global trade network in the asia-pacific for the generation to come. what i say to the auto sector in particular, i'm not suggesting people necessary like everything that is in that the what i'm singing we simply cannot afford is a kind of our auto sector shutout of global supply chains. that would be a disaster. we will make sure we get the best deal for that and all of our sectors but we are committed as the government to making sure we did not fall behind in our access to global trading economy which is so integrated. if we do that that would be disastrous for this country. >> you know better than most the challenges and the problems that come they cannot be predicted. you are facing an economy that is incredibly challenged the mainstream thinking. what are you thinking of for the new economy? how do we turn this around the? >> i have come to work now for selling is integral with nothing economic crises around the world. as a banking crisis, sovereign debt crisis, a housing crisis. we now have market chaos in china. we have a falling ramadi prices. we do have to do two things. we do not respond to these crises but we have to operate on a long-term plan. that is what we've been doing. that long-term plan is totally not just the resources but it is also including resources. i don't want to suggest for a second when i could have a vibrant resource sector. the fact that we have unparalleled resources and endowment of one of those highly educate workforces in the world and we innovative manufacturing that we covered with a complete spectrum of the time is one of the reasons candidate is able to weather the global economic storms better than most and we are committed to making sure all of these sectors move forward together. >> thank you very much, mr. harper. we are now going to go to mr. mulcair and the open floor. one of the questions the prime minister responded to was with respect to his vision. what do you think the ndp can do to transition our economy beyond the buffeting wins with oil prices, china and the u.s. fed sanctity will not raise rates again? >> i think it's possible to build a candidate that is more generous and more prosperous. mr. harper tentatively that everybody is on their own. i think we're all in this together and we should try to work hard with everybody out. i do come from a very large family and sometimes were tough but i see what is when people work together. tthey try to give each other tht helping hand. i also know it's high time that around the world people start looking at us different the i want our democratic institutions respected adult and her international reputation respected abroad. i would to make sure that every young person gets the opportunities that they need and, frankly, that our seniors get the help that they deserve. that's why we. that's why we have proposed raise the guaranteed income supplement to raise several hundred thousand of our ports seniors out of poverty. >> what you say that the liberals will apply for deficit and there will be schlick which? >> the reason mr. harper has been able to get out of deficit is that he hasn't created growth. is cuts and understanding to veterans programs, to first nations which we haven't talked about enough tonight, or at all because they are an important element in making sure we're creating proper partnerships and building our resources, as well as creating educational opportunities for young people across this country by investing, for example, on the liberal platform $2.6 billion in first nations education to we have an awful lot when he did it to keep investing and growing this economy. mr. harper thinks giving tax cuts in benefits to the wealthiest canadians will create growth. it hasn't and that's why we need a change. mr. mulcair talks about all the right things but he's not going to be able to act on them because unfortunately he has backloaded his promises and he is committed to balance when we don't need balance with low interest rates right now, with a decline debt-to-gdp ratio and with a flat economy. we need to invest in our future. that's what caused an economy stupid that's what the liberal party of canada is proposing. it's the right kind of canadians now. >> look, when it came out the other day that was confirmed by the auditor general we had a surplus last year, not just this year but a surplus last year, mr. kueter came out at the dust because they can veterans and cut seniors and they've got infrastructure. [talking over each other] >> spending in all of us areas has gone up. the way we balanced the budget was we did increase revenues. we did by cutting taxes. i guess what is a people is the a thinking of said before. witnessing in this fragile global economy everything is bigger with significant was insignificant juncture but what we're saying we're doing is were making sure we are investing in the things that will cause long-term growth and in things that help people in their pocketbooks to get education, to save to retire. higher taxes and permanent deficits is a risk that buys nothing for our people. >> mr. har

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