Booktv susan butler from 1997. Ms. Butler talked about her, east to the dawn the life of Amelia Earhart. The book examines her life and times and her marriage to publisher George Putnam who promoted his wifes adventures and feeds. Ms. Butlers book coincided with 100th anniversary of Amelia Earharts birth in and the 60th anniversary of her disappearance. This is about an hour. Cspan susan butler, author of east to dawn the life of Amelia Earhart, where did you get the title east to dawn . Guest oh, the title east to the dawn was my hactually my husbands contribution to the book. I had a very trendy title, Amelia Earhart, an extraordinary woman, and we decided it had to be something really much more interesting, and he came up with east to the dawn, which i thought was brilliant. Cspan whats it mean . Guest well, it means that her major flights were from west to east, and she was on her solo flight across the atlantic flying into the dawn. She was on her first flight, where she was just a passenger, from newfoundland to europe, flying into the dawn. And on her solo flight from hawaii to california, she was flying into the dawn. And then, of course, on the last flight, where she was lost, she was lost flying into the dawn. Cspan when did she live . Guest she was born in 1897, and this is the 100th anniversary of her birth. Cspan and when did you get the first idea that you wanted to write this book . Guest it was in the back of my head for years. I wanted to write a book about a remarkable woman, and she was the most remarkable woman that i knew. And i had a special reason, actually, because my mother was one of the early fliers, so she was kind of always there for me. Cspan and where did your mother fly . Guest she flew out of the red bank airport in red bank, new jersey, in the 30s. Cspan howhow much flying did your mom do . Guest well, she did a lot, but this isshe did a lot before the war and then, in the beginning of the war, before anything got really serious, she was in the Civil Air Patrol andand patrolled the jersey coast. Cspan do you fly . Guest no. Cspan did you ever think you wanted to be a flier . Guest i did. I thought about it, but by the time i was old enough to fly, it was after the war andafter the second world war, and i just kind of got onto other things. Cspan and i think it says in yourin thethe little bio about you that your mother was a member of the ninety nines . Guest she was a member of the ninety nines, yes. Cspan you say in the back of the book there are now 6,500 members of that group . Guest over 6,500 members. Cspan what is it . Guest itsits a womens flying organization. Itsitits really the flying organization where all the women join and then they support each other and they have various programs. Cspan got a picture here i wanna show you of two people. Who are these people . Let me see if we can get it here, this shot. Who are those people . Whoops. Guest thats eugene vidal and Amelia Earhart. Cspan and who is gene vidal . Guest eugene vidal is the father of gore vidal. He was the great love of amelias life. He was also the head of the bureau of air commerce, so he was the highest civilianthats the highest civilian post in aviation then. Cspan yin your book, you quote gore vidal. Did you talk to him about thisfor this book . Guest i interviewed him, yes, and thathe gave me this sensational quote. Cspan what was it about . Guest well, it was about my book. He says that he liked the book. Cspan but he also gave you some information that she used to wear mens underwear. Guest yes. She used to wear mens underwear and she didntshe was too embarrassed to buy it herself, so his father used to buy it. Cspan why . Why didwhy did she wear mens underwear . Guest well, it was more comfortable. Womens underwear at that pointwomen didnt wear slacks, they didnt wear pants, and so they wore kind of silk things that didnt work well under pants. Soso gene bought her, i think, jockey briefs that worked out better. Cspan now atiif we were alive during her mostyou know, when she was getting the most attention, what were people saying about her in this country . What kind of publicity, if you can relate it to today, did she get back in the 30s . Guest she wwouldve been a combination ofof the greatestlike, jeanne yeager. I di just dont know. Theresif i say that, there probably are people who have never heard of jeanne yeager. She was the most famous woman in america. Shes probably the most famous woman inin the world during her lifetime. She was catapulted to fame because she was the first woman to fly the atlantic when it seemed as it nobody could fly the atlantic without dropping into the sea. Andand then she went on to become a fine flier and she spent her life on the lecture circuit, in the public eye, deliberately, and then she wrote three books. I dont think theres anybody really in ouron our presentday scene who could possibly be all the things she was at the time. Cspan this cover you have and this photograph of Amelia Earhart comes from where . Guest its a pictureits just aaa picture of her aafter one of her flights. Im actually not sure which one itit comes from one of the archives. Cspan andand tell us about how big she was, i mean, how tall she was andand. Guest she was 58; she weighed 118 pounds. She was skinny. She was very goodlooking, except she had thick ankles. She hated her ankles, according to gore vidal. She was obsessed even when she was famous with howith her ankles, which is one of the reasons why she always wore pants, cause itit showed off the best of her figure and hid the worst. And she hadshe had absolutely beautiful handslong, tapering fingersthat her husband was in love with. Cspan how many times was she married . Guest just once. Shethere werethere were really two great loves in her life one she marriedand that was George Palmer putnamand one she didntthat was eugene vidal. Cspan George Palmer putnam was who . Guest George Palmer putnam was aaa publisher, a very good publisher andand aan extrovert, aan entrepreneur who was famous in his own right he was thehe was the publisher who snared lindbergh andwhich was the greatest publishing coup ofofof that era, and put him on the map. And he also published all the other explorers and adventurers he was really in love withwith the Great Outdoors andand aand adventurers. And when he kind of stumbled onto Amelia Earhart, he was just totally bowled over because she was everything. She wasshe was hisshe was his dream woman. Cspan wwhere did they meet . Guest well, they actually met when he interviewed her. He had been given the job of finding a woman to fly the atlantic in the place of amy guest, who had bought an airplane and planned to flyand be the first woman to fly the atlantic, and it was her notion that she would take off from the United States, fly to london, land in the thames in front of the houses of parliament, and it was going to be a gesture of friendship between the United States and england. So, therefore, she named the plane friendship. And she was from a very wealthy family and she was 55, very headstrong, very intelligent. And herher family didnt know what she was about. She kept it quite quiet, and she had commander byrd helping her organize this, and he found her the plane, he found her the pilot, he found her the copilot. And then when her family found out about it, they, not too surprisingly, hit the roof. And so they talked her out of it, and so she saidstubborn ladyshe said, well, ok. I wont do it, but then it has to beit has to continuethe project has to continue, and i want my place taken by an American Woman who will be a credit to her sex and a credit to her country, has to be somebody educated, a flier and a wonderful person, because there were various peoplevarvarious women who were trying to be that first womanwho wanted to be the first woman across the atlantic because they knew that theyd become the most famous woman in the world if they could just get on a plane. And there was one in particular, one woman by the name of mabel ball, who was just after the publicity and she was very good at getting publicity, and she had fashioned herself aaa vest ofa gold link vest with diamond buttons and a platinum collar, and she had huge diamonds on her hands and, as the New York Times said, just to be photographed upon landing in that outfit was, to her, the dream of a lifetime. And she was always shopping and doing all the things thatand garnering for publicity and doing all the things that amy guest thought was terrible. And there were other people also that wanted to be the first famous woman to fly across the atlantic, so for those reasons, amy guest had decided that she just had to do this. Cspan whwhowhere didwhawhat citizenship did amy guest have . Guest she was an american, although her husbher husband was english. Cspan and where did she live . Guest she lived inin london and in long island. Cspan what kind of a plane was it that they bought . Guest it was a fokkera fokker with three engineshugejust one of the biggest, one of the best planes of the day. Cspan pontoons . Guest pontoons. Cspan thats, oobviously, how they would land out on the thames. Andand werewere those the kind of planes that they flew in those days . Guest mmhmm. Cspan what year are we talking about here . Guest were talking about 1928. Were talking about the year after lindbergh. Cspan and what had he done . Guest lindbergh had wwanted something called the orteig, which had fired up the worlds imagination, which was to fly from new york to paris, and raymond orteig, a frenchman, had put up 25,000 to the first person who could accomplish this. And many tried, many died. Lindbergh was the first to succeed. Cspan and he flew from where to where . Guest he flew from Roosevelt Field to la bourget. Cspan and Roosevelt Field is located where . Guest long island. Cspan long island. And la bourget is in paris. Guest in paris. Cspan aand. Guest and. Cspan go ahead. Guest and it took him 33 hours. Cspan did he stop anywhere along the way . Guest no. Cspan and ithad any woman flownin 1927, that wouldve been, i guesshad any woman flown over the atlantic at all . Guest oh, no. No. Cspan not in any planes . Guest no. Cspan cause somewhere in your book, you say that back when flying was really active, in the early days, that 95 percent of the passengers were men. Guest yes. Cspan why was that . Guest well, because wwomen were afraid of flying, so one of the reasons whybutbut this comes later, a few years later, whenwhen airlines started to come into being, they decided that they had to give publicity to women so that women would begin to think that they could, in fact, fly and that men would realize that if women flew, they shouldnt be afraid of airplanes. Cspan well come back to the book in a moment. I wanna ask you a little bit about yourself. Where do you live . Guest i live inin pine plains, new york. Cspan where is that . Guest thats 100 miles north of the city. Cspan and how long have you lived there . Guest fifteen years. Cspan is this your first book . Guest yes. Cspan aand dwhat did you do for a living before you got into the bookwriting business . Guest i tried to make a living atat writing, but i really find it very difficult. Its almost impossible. Cspan how much education do you have . Guest ive gotten as far as a masters degree at columbia. Cspan in what subjects . Guest political science. Cspan and when you went about doing this book, where did you go to get the information . Guest well, i went wherever ititwherever itit took me i went out to ohio to visit katch challis, who was one of aAmelia Earharts dearest friends and cousins. I went to. Cspan alive . Guest well, she died after i interviewed her. Cspan what year did you interview her . Guest i interviewed her in 1989. Cspan so youve been working on this book for how long . Guest ten years. Cspan and what elsewhere else did you go . Guest i went to newfoundland, i went up to trepassey, and then i went to Harbour Grace to see the field where Amelia Earhart took off on her solo flight, and trepassey is where shewherewhere the friendship took off from. Cspan how hard is it to get to trepassey from here . Guest its not hard. Cspan how long does it take . Guest oh, i cant remember. Cspan and why newfoundland . Guest newfoundland juts outif you look at a map of north america, you see that newfoundland juts out as far east asits the furthest eastern point. Its the closest to europe. Cspan and so when youre writing the rulebooks, you hadyou could do that. I mean, if youre going from north america, youd find that point that would be the closest to europe . Guest yes. Yes. Manyesparticularly the fthe field inin Harbour Grace was a Takeoff Point for many planes. Cspan where else did you go for your information . Guest well, i spent a lot of time at the Schlesinger Library in cambridge. Cspan why there . Guest well, because they had most of the Amelia Earhart mmaterial that was given by the family. Andand then i went to medford, massachusetts, where Amelia Earharts sister, who is still alive, lives. Cspan how old is she . Guest she was born in 1900. Cspan shes still alive . Guest shes still alive, and she was very helpfulvery helpful. Cspan which sister . Guest whitsthere were just the two of them. Cspan whatand her n. Guest it was Muriel Morrissey. Cspan yeah. Guest her name is Muriel Morrissey. Cspan and what did. Guest and her daughter was very helpful, too. Cspan and what did Muriel Morrissey remember . Guest well, it wasnt so much what Muriel Morrissey remembered, although she remembered a great deal. It was more getting from her a feelinga feeling of whatof what their life was like. And also, she pointed me in quite a few new directions so that i came up with more new material. Cspan what was their life like . Guest when they were children . Ameliatheirtheir lithe two of them had, in their youngfirst childish years, very different lives, actually, because amelia was sent to live with her grandmother in atchison, kansas, cause her grandmother was quite elderly and lonely, although she did have a husband. He washe was a bit withdrawn and thered been a few deaths, and so she was sent to live in atchison with her grandparents and comfort her grandmother. And muriel lived in kansas city, but they were always very close and they were always together in the summer and there was a lot of visiting back and forth. Cspan what year did you fvisit muriel . Guest i visited muriel in 87 and then i visited her subsequently a few more times. I would keep going back and she would keep opening her door for me. She was very helpful. Cspan and you say she sent you inin new directions. Guest mmhmm. Cspan give us an example. Guest well, she helpedshe sent me to her daughter, whomwho also opened the door to more leads, and so i ended up finding more cousins who gave me letters, and so i hadi had letters from cousins that had never been found before. And then besides that, then i had the katchwhen i visited katch challis, i hadi was given, after katch died, by her daughteri was given diaries. The diaries were fabulous, the diaries ofof katchs sister, wholucy, who lived with amelia when she was older awhenwhen she was married. Cspan what different cities did Amelia Earhart live in . Guest let me see, she started out inas an adult or as a child . Cspan just herin her life. Guest because, as she said, she rolled around a lot when she was a kid. She lived in atchison, kansas; kansas city, kansas; des moines, iowa; st. Paul, minnesota; boston; new york. She went to columbia. Cspan i remember philadelphia she went to schooldid she go to school in philadelphia . Guest well, she didnt actually, but herher family originally came from philadelphia, yeah. Cspan california . Guest oh. Cspan where . Guest . Absolutely. She ended up in california in the taltalooka Lake District outside of la. Cspan so as you went about your task, how much other literature had been written about Amelia Earhart, how many other books . And were you looking for a new angle . Guest there are tons of books about Amelia Earhart. I mean, itiim stunned when iifif i had realized how many books there were, i probably wouldnt have started. The literature about her isisis getting longer all the time, too. The thing is thatwhat i found is thatthe book showed a continuing or possibly even a growing interest, which ii hadactually hadnt realized. I think there are probably right nowi see a growing interest maybe just because im so involved with Amelia Earhart. But i found that the books were really interesting, but you cant rely on books if youre a biographer. You have to go back to sourcessource material. Cspan so whats different about this book compared to all the other books you read . Guest well, i hadi had thetheit sounds corny to say, but i had the real details of her life, which i found were missing, and iit took a lot of digging, took a lot of interviewing and it took a lot of time because it isnt the kind of thing you can force. Youyou cant even figure out where youre going to go until each thing happens. And thfor instance, gore vidal had told me that there was a lost biography and he knew about it because the woman was a friend ofofof his fathers as well as of amelia, andand he had spent time with her. And she had advised him about how to go about publishing his first book, and thathis first book was accepted and her first book was turned down, so hed do this, so he said to me that there was this lost biography. And i suppose that he told other people because, really, its no seit was no secret, but i just happened to find it. So i had this lost biography and then, of course, i had to rewrite the whole book again. Cspan when did you find it, and when did you have to start rewriting . Guest w