Include that changed the whole dynamic. Well, the chief of staff who got fired youre talking about general moseley he didnt like drones but his predecessor,s washington mad keen on drones. And he had actually bought lots of them. So different constituencies in the air forcement the turning point really, i would say was in 2008. When general hayden, director of the cia went to the white house, went to see bush, and he was egged on by the aircharacter who is the head of the counterterrorism center, plays a hugely Important Role in all this. And said to bush, you know, al qaeda is massing. Theyre regrouping. Theyre about to come at us again and scare the daylights out of bush, and got authorization to loosen the restrictions on drone targeting. And so after then, to give bush credit, theres been you had to absolutely know who you were trying to hit and be absolutely sure where he was and all the rest. Hayden this is in july 2008. Hayden got bush to relax that and now theyre allowed to attack people whose identity were unknown. Just behaving, just looking guilty. So, for instance, within a short space of time, armed men in a truck heading towards afghanistan qualified as terrorist targets and could be hit. And this was the infamous signature strikes. Gates faced opposition from the people he derided. Fly boys in silk scarves but gates was a comparatively speaking forceful secretary of defense, and did ramp up the once there was money about once he was prepared to sort of put the resources hip it, suddenly there was a big change of opinion in the air force. Someone is always there was at that time another factor, you have to bare in mind, its all bear in mind, its all about money and the air force was thinking there were other things they could build which were more expensive. More attractive. The f35 fighter which is costing now up to sort of probably 400 million a copy, various transport planes, and jumping forward again and straight off the point drones you now find the big manufacturers getting more interested in drones because now you have 300 and 400 million drones which makes them more attractive to the industry. So it does escalate to and there are shifts, but i would say 2008 and then when obama comes in, and he has brennan by his side, finishing each others sentences, theyre really off to the races because it was other decisions came into play where obama was pledged to abolish guantanamo and didnt want to capture terrorist anymore. It was easier to kill them. That was an incentive. But its id also like to say quickly, this isnt all about drones. This idea of picking your critical nodes dismantling the enemy machine war machine by hitting specific targets goes back a long way back into world war ii. It never works always pursued. Pursued in vietnam to have an area chapter describing an attempt at Remote Control warfare in vietnam which didnt work. It was pursued in the first iraq war, where the industry tried to kill saddam. And failed. Drones made all this more attractive seemed to make all this easier ask they pursued it then. As i say you have to the politics always politics going on, but if you want a turning point, id say 2008. Anyone else . Im not sure how long ive been talking. All gone by in the blink of an eye. Anyway, thank you all for comping. And i hope you like the book. [applause] [applause] coming up tonight at 6 45 eastern, critical hoyt of the socialist party of america. On after words at 9 00 p. M. A report on Sexual Assault in the United States in conversation with katy baker non reporter for buzz feed news. And at 10 00 an done witness dithe first female fourstar general remembers her military contrary and our primetime programming includes steven wipebergs look at the winebergs look at the history of modern science tonight an cspan 2s booktv. One of the thinks i love about these three women is how different they are from one another, and its a little startling. In fact, maybe they would never have been friend except for the fact they deployed together. Michelle is the youngest of the three women and is very unusual i