And she said, im so sorry, never do it again, make sure you dont. So i resent enormously when he will diminish the humanity of these people trying to make the best of the situation. Would you say that they are brainwashed . No. I have kim jong il say, only in the west can brainwashing be regarded as a bad thing because they are so filthy and dirty in the west. But they are not brainwashed because the stories dont add up and they dont make sense. You can convince them that they have more food on the plate than last year. So they are building a better tomorrow but we are poor. So there is an increasing idea that everything is not what its cracked up to be. [inaudible question] that is like a penalty felony. You dont communicate with the world at all, but that is falling away because you have reception on the border. So people will be calling and talking to their family members area but they pride themselves. If its not korean, we dont need to know it. One of the great things about the regime is increasingly when you get caught with a crime, you can bribe your way out of it. So if you get caught with a cell phone coming you can tell that person that i will let you use it for half the time and the person will be more than happy to look the other way. That is the wonderful thing is the cynicism that is taking hold over their. How big is this outside of the core family . Remark i think 20 to 30 . You have people that live with modern amenities. And you can see this black void of north korea versus la salle and that is the level that we are talking about and youre going to have family members staying behind. [inaudible question] please go ahead. [inaudible question] [inaudible question] there is a headline article in the daily mail, and it was he has a miniskirted robot army and many are watching in these parades and this person has no feelings of their own and have been completely deprogram by the state. They giggle and tell jokes and they want to do well in school. They love their mom. And that makes it seem like it is effective but thankfully it is not as effective as it could be. Okay. Thats all the time we have. Thank you all so much. [applause] we will be decamping after this for some drinks. There are very few books left. If you want to grab it, please do. Thank you for coming. Lets hear one more time for michael malice and cole stryker. Botanica is between mulberry and here if youd like to celebrate your freedom there. But think again about coming and thank you so much for coming. Now, booktv on cspan2. Fortyeight hours of nonfiction authors and book every weekend. Here are some programs look out for. We are live in california for our monthly viewer callin program, in depth, and we have Luis Rodriguez is our featured guest. And how the country was found in his book, uncle sam cant count. And we visit utah to interview several of the cities authors and tour the literary sites. Watch for this and many more this weekend on booktv on cspan2. For the full schedules, visit us at booktv. Org. Lets go. [cheers] [applause] welcome to ogden, utah, on booktv. Located in northern utah. Ogden is the first settlement in what is now a utah. Nicknamed the junction city, the leader became the junction location for the Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroads. They are now considered one of the top 10 cities in the country to raise a family by forbes magazine. With the help of our Comcast Cable partners, for the next hour we will learn the history of the city from local authors. Today when people think of utah, they think of two things. They think of the Republican Party as one of the strongest states in the country both in terms of the president ial election and the election. We were interested in whether or not we had a leftist radical movement that had existed. One of the big misconceptions or that its only a child to motion and that its something that we did over by going to summer camp or college. But in reality its an adult condition as well as this and its always play develops. But unfortunately we have had to silence us because we worry that it makes is immature. The more we began to investigate a topic am i realize it is quite a prominent theme in american history. We begin our special look with author val holley with the infamous 25th street. Is actually not that unusual. Similar streets have popped up, whether oman, texas, larimer street in denver. But what makes august 25 street is the fact that it arose in the middle of a mormon settlement. And you had this struggling to retain control of the city. And on the other hand you have the railroad which is the economic lifeblood which swelled the ranks of the liberal party. And so the railroad was also leveling the playing field. So you have that irony. And i think in that that the guilty pleasures or along this were going to be just a little bit more taboo than they might have been in other cities. And initially after the railroad came, a number of Hotels Spring up here at the ogden depot. And initially the railroads and the city council did not want to serve alcohol and they said it would moralize the railroad workers. And that did not last too long. The city needed the money. So when the railroad came, they licensed porcelains here at the railroad. After that boos began to flow like the ogden river. At the same time three blocks east of here were 25th street intersects with the main street, there was another hotel called the white house. It was run by an itinerary merchant and he was a very important one he arrived but he became the governor of utah. So with the hotels and restaurants here three blocks east of here, the three blocks between them began to ln slowly with boarding houses and rooming houses and saloons and bordellos and even some opium dens. It happened that people who came through here or constantinople passengers interested in past times that were quite different than those that the mormon culture was accustomed to. From 1935 to 1949. And it was during these years that the wild reputation reached its highest point. They believed that licenses and these were the best way to regulate this establishment. They also believe that 25th street allowed ordinary people to enjoy the same kind of recreation as members of private clubs. So you get more of that during his time than any other time in history. The matter a lot of notorious people. The most famous would have to be rose davie and her husband bill. She ran the rose room in the secondfloor of the building on the corner here. It is the hottest place in ogden. And he had his own gambling joint which was on the opposite side of the street. The second store where the pizza parlor is. And for a year and she ran as a normal rooming house when she leased the building. And then the mayor came back into office at the beginning of 1948. Theres no evidence for this, but i think that she thought that maybe a bordello would stand a chance. So she decided to start importing women in their as prostitutes. The first came into the public consciousness in 1948 and it was holding its annual party in three strippers were hired as the grand finale and they were passing around matchbooks with the logo on them. And the crowd became the lone reliever they started throwing bottles. This is the first time they had ever heard of it. A few days after that they rated it is dangerous as the center of the distribution of your products. We are here in front of the london ice cream parlor and this one was called davenport saloon. And she owned them at one point and she was famous for keeping her office here. So the thing that is most visually interesting nowadays this passageway 3 so the thing that is most visually interesting nowadays this passageway that you see between him. This supposedly was built with the buildings owner so gentlemen could discreetly go hear from 25th street into the center of the block, which was their tenderloin district. And this passageway leads to what was called electric alley. It was in the center of the block and built in 1893. They hired a local Construction Firm to build a grand parlor house for her right where this parking lot is. It was called number 10 electric alley. He came to the interior from grand avenue. On both sides was flanked by areas that were built for prostitutes. So from 1893 to about 1912, it was the place to go for prostitution. And i like to say that she was the most famous or successful madam in utah history. The reason i say that she was the most accessible as one salt lake in 1909 decided to create this, they recruited one not from salt lake but from another place to run it. But they were only there for three years. Her career lasted a quarter of a century from 1889 through 1914. Here we are 25th three in front of what used to be the club. This is a very important building for the heritage of 25th street. And it was a place of lodging for africanamericans who worked at needed a place to stay and it was convenient. So for years and years was a place not only where they could sleep but where they could get food and licensed alcohol or they could play cards. It is just a great convenience for them. The owner during world war ii, he married a beautiful young woman who had come from utah named annabel. She is one that became associated and thats what people really remember. And it featured live jazz. There is a saxophonist who still is living there. He is now in his 90s. And he got here in 1945. They teamed up to create a jazz club that later became just a sensation. People loved to go. Had the beneficial effect that it hadnt been before. If lurch for about a century. When railroad Passenger Service started to decline, especially in the 1950s as they were building the interstate highway system so people could travel more easily forgo by airlines, which was faster than train. Then the railroad Passenger Service started dying out and buy the late 60s it was pretty much all gone. Twentyfifth street today looks a lot better than it did in the 1970s. And the buildings, if you see pictures from the 1970s, they look just terrible. And many of them had been abandoned for years. But that is why they are still here in plain sight. They werent desirable and so no one wanted to be on 25th street to make way for a fancy new building. The street was put onto the National Register of his workplaces is the National Register of historic places. And so now you have a viable and vibrant streets where people come for street festivals and festivals all the time in good weather. There is just a lot to do and a lot of good reasons to come here. This weekend, booktv is in utah with the help of our local cable partner, comcast. Next we sit down with susan matt. Her book is homesickness an american history. Homesickness was considered a legit illness that soldiers could be discharged for. One of the big misconceptions is that its only a childs emotions and its something that we get over by going to summer camp or college. But in reality it is an adult condition as well as a childs condition that has plagued adults. But unfortunately we have had to silence this because we worry that it makes us look immature. So one early influence when i came here and started thinking about it was just discovering the name of this mountain right there. Shortly after i arrived, someone told me it was named by a homesick scottish immigrant. And i thought, that is not part of any narrative ive ever heard that people were actually thinking of places they left behind. And i got me thinking that maybe my experience was one that we shared across the centuries. I moved out here with my husband and we were both eager to come last. And then i realized how much i missed my family in the midwest. And i wondered if i was strange in a way because i had heard that for generations americans moved west. Suddenly i found it so difficult. And i wondered if i was an anomaly. So then i began to invest the topic and i realized it was a prominent name in american history. I found that any archive i went to in the United States, i could find people reflecting on their homesickness and talking about how painful it was to leave home and family and possibly have no chance in going back and how they struggled with that emotionally. One thing that struck me was in the 19th century americans were public about their homesickness. They made the most popular song in america home sweet home. And that one would bring americans to tears because everyone seemed to be moving in the early 19th century. It was a commonly stressed a motion. It has only developed in the course of the 20th century. And in fact it was so acceptable to be homesick that the military made accommodations for it and all sorts of institutions recognize that it was a problem. During the civil war people who were acutely homesick for called nostalgic. He used to mean a strong longing for home and people thought you could die of it. So over 5000 older is of the union army were diagnosed as being acutely nostalgic. And that is how serious it was taken. So here is a soldier fighting. Oh how i wish that i could be with you in our sweet children. I can hardly sleep and i thought her of our sweet ones. In these expressions were absolutely typical of civil war soldiers. I read hundreds of journals and they all said the same thing. Unfortunately dos and never made it home, he was killed in battle the following year. The most common sicknesses or fever, dysentery, heart palpitations and all of these with these wellknown relations of the conditions. And people could actually die of the condition as a result. Both armies were known to discharge the soldiers and so you might did for love home due to recover and there were also interesting regulations because they worried that it would make soldiers passout weep uncontrollably. So today we would say their depression is exacerbated by the condition. In that mind and body distinction really believe that the psychological condition can have these physical consequences. And so we need an a military and we see decreasing sympathy for the condition where people will still occasionally get diagnosed but theres a lot more inpatients and more of a sense that these people are big babies. One doctor called them americas bravest menaces because they were wasting a generation of homesick sissies and they would be unable to find a communist. So they certainly drove these efforts and so did the rise of corporate capitalism. Companies would need to deploy them across the world. Some people joked that ibm stood for i have been moved. What was the government or a private company. You were supposed to be footloose and fancy free and go where youre needed. And it generated a lot of emotion because workers are constantly going home and that is not going to be a particularly effective fighting force. In the military i aint bad populations on the move, you see this as a recurrent problem and one that some are loathe to admit. Its a sign of weakness to say you want to be where your mother is where your husband as where your children are. So i think people are resistant to it because it seems like a childish emotion. I thought originally my story was going to be people have learned to repress this emotion over time. But what i found is that people have learned to repress the public expressions of this overtime but whether in the food they were eating for the sports teams they were rooting for from afar or the Television Programs they are watching from their old homelands, they were still a part of this. And so there was a real effort to maintain a connection to home so that even while we celebrate this as rugged individualists who can move on and never looked at. We dont fill that. We are much more part of the rhetoric than one might think. From our recent trip to ogden, utah, a look at wisebird bookery. She discusses the challenges of being in the book is missed. When i moved here in 1997, i decided one day i was going to be here. I approached the owner of the store and asked if she would be willing to let us move into the bookstore. We were in the Coffee Business at the time and we own a very successful coffee shop. But we decided that we would like to come here. At that time she was kind of resistance to the whole idea. So we approached it several years later and in 2005 she agreed to let us put a little coffee shop inside the bookstore. Which gave us that foot in the door. So we learned a lot about the bookstore business at that time. In 2008 we bought the whole thing and everything. So was just a series of event that occurred that were very fortunate for us. The store was walltowall floortoceiling aisles of books. Everywhere you looked there were shelves of looks. So obviously its a very different today and Different Things that happened with the economy and people didnt have quite as much money to spend on books. So we had to seriously think about how we would go forward. The bookstore has been here since 1978 and was started by two delightful ladies that were schoolteachers in the community. And we really felt that it had been such an important part of the history of this area that we really did not want to close our doors. We struggled with this for some time. And we finally looked at each other and said what is it that we know best. And we know the Coffee Business. What is it that we want to do . We want to preserve the bookstore at all costs. So we decided that we would rearrange things a little bit, making things more of a Community Gathering place and coffee and books is the perfect combination for them. So that is what we have done. Over the last several years we have brought it to what you see here today. There a lot of people that want left the way it was. We have this wonderful secret place with their spiderwebs and dusty bookshelves and so on and so forth. It wouldnt be great if we could all exist with that dream . But its just not happening anymore. So today we still have a lot of people walk through the doors, just like yesterday. I had a couple come in and move to california and they walked back in here is that people stop and they look around and they say where are all the books. And between you and i they havent been coming in here buying books. So little bookstores dont exist unless we do something a little bit more appealing to the community. The so this is the notion that we found and its working with us quite well. And i had the impression that most people were like myself are you that they would come in and they would look and browse the shelves. Then they would leave or buy a book and leave. And people would come in with the intention of purchasing a book in the first place. What were finding now with the big chains, and i totally understand people come in and they will look for a book that takes their imagination and then they will say that i can get this for 10