.. as i said earlier, it was a different genre. also, it was sort of easy because it was done. it wasn't like you had to go in and try to do a lot of guesswork. there were marks on every page. ninety-two, i think, in total. so i think there were 150 or so marks. so the editing process is really nothing more than following these instructions. so was discovered -- that's not quite the right word, but the more question is what have we forgot to ask about. >> so what you have here is the last word of what he wanted the manuscript is a. >> just. >> is a magazine article. >> yes, that's right. >> make you very much. this has been wonderful. i wanted to thank you so much for that. hugh davis and john summers, it has been so wonderful. thank you all very much. we will view in the lobby. [applause] >> booktv is on facebook. like us and interact with guests and viewers and watch videos and up-to-date information on booktv. >> booktv sat down with oscar goodman to discuss his memoir, "being oscar: from mob lawyer to mayor of las vegas." he talked about cases that he handled during his career as a criminal defense attorney and he shared stories from his returns is the mayor of las vegas. this is about one hour. >> the book is "being oscar." it is written by oscar goodman. mayor oscar goodman, why did you come to las vegas? >> we came here in 1964. i went to a wonderful liberal arts college in philadelphia. i loved every day of college. i went to law school at the university of pennsylvania and it was the time of the civil rights movement were was very active. the students that were there were interested in corporate law and the like. i had just gotten married. i felt bad that i wasn't supporting my wife. one day i decided to walk down to city hall to the da's office and say, you have a job. and i was very lucky because they took me to the office of arlen specter. he was just coming off of a win of the conviction of a teamster. i think i'm the only person that did that. and a wealthy widow was killed. two fellows took money and took it out to las vegas and they assigned me to going over there on a motion to suppress this. at the end of the meeting, they said, what are you doing here? and i said, where else is there. they said las vegas. i went home that night and i said to my wife how would you like to go to the land of milk and honey, and she said that we are not going to israel and i said no, las vegas. so that is how it all happened. we had great educations. wherever joe went, there was a cloud over his head. i have been very lucky. >> what kind of logic you practice? >> anything that paid me. >> if they wanted a divorce, whatever they wanted, i would take care of them and try to make them very happy and i was happy as well. believe me, this is not water. water is for washing. and i said, may i post you. >> please go right ahead. >> it is 5:00 o'clock somewhere, is that what you're saying? and yes, exactly he meant we will get to the fact that you had a martini delivered to you while we speak. i want to go back to this subtitle, which is "being oscar: from mob lawyer to mayor of las vegas." now, how did you become known as a mob lawyer? >> there have been offers over the years that suggested that i was sent out by monsters on the east coast to represent mob interests. because las vegas was referred to as an open city. in other words, they did not have a stronghold on any particular casino here. it was open for anybody to take a little piece of it. and i came out here and i wasn't even practicing criminal law. a fellow came to me for bankruptcy and i took care of him and we had met him as a car dealer. and we had not told him to concern himself with us. it was very romantic. and we did the bankruptcy thing. and i think i charge them $250 and he was happy and i was happy. >> a couple of weeks later a phone call comes in to the pit where he was dealing. the person said who is the best criminal lawyer in las vegas. well, it was no different than that was now. they said who is the best criminal lawyer in las vegas. and that is the way it started because the fellow who made 80 phone call was a reputed boxer from the northeast who was involved in making lewd videos and his brother had a problem he hadn't seen his brother and i said, by such and such a place. well, i was scared to death. being the brave person that i am, i said, how would you like to take a ride with me. and we look at this exclusive neighborhood and i'm not from the neighborhood door and he said, you don't have three dimes and i said, okay. >> he said you better win the case. and i saw 3100-dollar bills and i've never seen that much at one time in my life and i got very lucky because this is a case that i couldn't win if i traveled a thousand times. i tried it on st. valentine's day two years after i got my license in the federal courthouse. as a matter of fact, i think the jury, i believe, they felt so sorry for me but they brought up the not guilty. the brother was so happy that he had hired the best criminal lawyer of las vegas and he tried the case for him. from that point on, he would be talking to folks around the country. the mayor was one of his friends and i got a phone call one day about the first wiretap case on the bill, which was taking place in miami, florida. the miami national airport had its phones surveilled with wiretaps and they were taking videos of it. the fellow that was providing this information to the bookmakers as a bartender here in las vegas. they had him here and i went down to miami and got lucky there again. everybody else was found guilty and it had nothing at all to do the wiretap or anything. it just wasn't mentioned for the first two weeks of trial and from that point on, it was just every single mob case in the country. i had a least one client and then in december 12, 1970, i was on a case, a wiretap case in 26 different cities reputed mobsters. the bottom line is i was hired in 26 cities because of this reputation is developing. once again, i got lucky and i was able to ascertain that. i had one case after another all piled up on the floor. and it was clear to me there was is something wrong with it. my client says although these signatures bore the name of the deputy attorney at general of the united states come they were in different handwriting. so i investigated it and i took john mitchell who was part of the deposition and he said yes, we did something that was an appropriate here, but it shouldn't involve the dismissal. but again, the reputation kept on growing and the legend kept on growing. and i wouldn't say that, because i thought it was all luck. >> i did want to ask. when you use the word talking about your career, reputed mobsters. you use the word mob. are you troubled by that word? whitey always a reputed? >> welcome i will never forget there was a judge in san diego who is presiding over a case that i was representing a reputed mobster. and he had a storied career in san diego and everyone was referring to him as a reputed mobster. the judge said after a while i thought that was his name. and i said, you have to understand, your honor, the reason why we use this as a is not a monster until he is convicted of being a monster. he is reputed because that that is the reputation of the law enforcement has given him. if somebody is convicted, for a mob related crime, then i think it is fair to call them a mobster i always took it as a badge of honor, given the sense that they could hire anyone in the world and they chose me. >> does the government play by the rules? >> no, i hate to interrupt you, but that gets my dander up. i may not have actively practiced over the last 13 years and i was the mayor, but i was practicing particularly during the 70s and the 80s. the ends justify the means and they really didn't care that much. they just felt that my clients were so bad that they had committed these crimes that if they could get them -- it's not supposed to work that way either. if they could get them, then i was their job. and they would do anything to get my clients. and i rarely put a client on the witness stand. many of my clients were not smart and i thought i could do a better job for them to the jury. i really believe that. allowing them to be questioned by a bright prosecutor. so the end of the story with these people who are prosecuting and the law enforcement agents had to be my target. invariably i caught them in a lie. i caught them in a violation of the constitution of the united states and people said, oh, he won the case on a technicality. i don't think the fourth amendment is a technicality. it is probably the embodiment of one of the great laws of this country has. you can go into someone's home and violate their personal liberties without having a warrant issued by an impartial judge. i want my cases. based on the attack of the government were their credibility. my favorite story is one that people don't talk about. the one about mattie baker. a caricature of the way people have characterized african-americans in a prior life. basically he shuffled and mumbled, but he was a smart guy. a nice guy. but he was probably dealing in serious amounts of heroin and law enforcement.word that he was going to be involved in a transaction, at all places, arkansas. they saw him drive up in his catalog. and they had arrested somebody coming in from san diego that was going to make the delivery of jokes to him. for police officers, all big fat guys, they were hoping to testify. and i brought up the exclusionary rule that says if you're not testifying you have to leave the room so they cannot hear what the other person is testifying to. first person gets on the stand and he said that he will tell the truth and takes the oath. he said, well, we saw this guy sitting on the curb and i went up to him and said, sir, right off the bat, nobody had ever called him stir in his entire life. so i knew this was the beginning of some kind of concoction and he said sir, would you mind if you got out of your car. and he said certainly, no problem. welcome i know that he would listen to the police officer and then he said, would you be kind enough to hand us the key out of your ignition. and i said i knew that would never happen. and then we said, please open up the trunk for us. and no one in the liber says please. and they found a bag and then they said, sir, could you open up the back and they said no, he opened it up and we found $262,000. well, he starts getting a little bit hot and says, you know, mr. bittman, they are lying. and i said, i will have three more white cops that will come here and testify about the same answer. so let me take your venue disappear quietly. so the next hop comes and he takes the oath to tell the truth. the same testimony hand in glove, he says, they are lying. next cop comes in and he has the same testimony. he opened it up and he was polite he said that they were lying. and they said, you know, they think you are a big deal or of drugs. nobody will believe you over for white cops. and he said that they are lying. the last one that i had the affair, thank goodness, he says he will swear to tell the truth, and truth. and i said, we'll be talking about? and they said, you saw it in there and he said yes, i'm sure that they saw. and i said, you have to be kidding. i said to the judge, your honor, can i have a day where i can find some very important evidence to produce for you. and i said i will give you half a day, that's what he told me you can come back tomorrow morning. he didn't think i would be able to do anything. but the public doesn't generally like drug dealers. but i don't think they like lying cops even more. so i went back to my office and i knew when the flight was coming in and i was able to ascertain the airline and i had one of the fellows call and they found the name of the pilot to the airplane and i said, sir, i am oscar goodman and i represent a fellow who was arrested at the airport in arkansas. he says, well, ma'am, that was like miami vice. and i said, what do you mean? and they said that they pulled us out of the car and pushed his face into the curb and they put cuffs behind his back and a gun to his head and they went to the trunk and they were kicking him. and i said, we testify to that. he said yes. i said come on down here and i will make sure that you have a nice room and if you want to bring a friend, i will make sure that everything will be taken care of her year. you dispute my office tomorrow morning at 7:00 o'clock and he came down and we put him on the stand. you know what the stupid prosecutor said? he said there is goodman supporting perjury again. the judge looked at him with such disdain and 10 disdain and said there is absolutely a constitutional violation and he said thank you. heartbreaking whole thing was how he told the way it is. the lying cops from the prosecutor because no one remembers them exactly like the last person. and they will be able to do it to some other guy that doesn't have a good lawyer like i did. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2. we are talking about mob lawyer to mayor of las vegas, only in america is the name of the book. who are lefty rosenthal and tony scott but? >> well,. >> by the way, why were you in the movie? think i was one of the consultant. martin scorsese said who should play the lawyer. and he was the one for trade by mr. dinero and he said, let mr. dinero do it. nevertheless, they hired him to play myself and it was great. every time they watched, this was is a wonderful thing. it had supplemented income unbelievably over the years. >> so who were they? >> they didn't call him lucky to his face. he was the front man, basically, from the mob at the corporation that owned about five different hotels here in las vegas. very bright guy, very demanding. before he came along, it was a little hole in the wall like you would imagine. a movie in the making. he has these ideas a grand jury and he is a very astute person. tony was a childhood associate of his and according to law enforcement, tony was set out by the chicago mob to look over their interest here in las vegas. and according to 26 people, murdered them. i was always chastise by local police would say, how can you sleep at night. and i say, how come you are so dumb they haven't been able to spend one day in jail if you killed 26 people. i never got a satisfactory answer along those lines. but tony did that here and unfortunately he was killed and buried in a cornfield in louisiana. >> he never spent one day in jail except for one time when we were representing the bosses in kansas city. tony was arrested for murder and he didn't want the other attorney to represent him. >> mr. bittman, is there such a thing as a mafia? >> there was a time that i would have sworn that there wasn't. i had had the head of the fbi, that there wasn't. they said it was the greatest lie ever told. ally of a century that there is no mafia. we're at really found out about what i was doing ,-com,-com ma because i was representing families, i have no idea of this until i began to listen to the wiretaps and read the search warrants and see the movie casino to find out had i really knew what i was doing and representing, i would charge a lot more. after a while it came about this way and i was representing vinny the animal. you never called any animal to his face that was clear. i get a phone call one day and he says, you are through, oscar, and i said, what does that mean? and he had the you will never be able to say that there is no nokia. they met in the room and the palau tonight and then they write the card and they say if your brother is an informant, you will kill your brother and your mother is on her sick bed, you will leave your mother. i would laugh at that because i thought it was ludicrous. welcome i got a phone call from the prosecutor and he said that we have reported surreptitiously a mafia induction ceremony where your client is on the tape. welcome i wasn't going to say he didn't record. i have had to hear it. what i heard was that they put a gun on the table and the whole works. and i said this is really remarkable that we used to make fun of, apparently it had some validity to it. so this is the case but he said the fbi agent to prison for 10 years up in boston and that is a whole different story. i get the feeling that if the case is ever going to be resolved, i could wrap it up if i were able to resolve it before the problem began. the agents were lying on on the stand. but i could not prove it at the time as far as taking testimony from informants and the like. i sat down with me and his associate who is a very patrician looking fellow. jr look like a roman centurion and had a regal manner about him. i believe boston college, whose accounting major and i said, you know, fellas, i can win this case. i can beat the murders and i could be the extortion and i could be a kidnapping and all of those. but i said what i have a problem is on the tape of the induction ceremony. and i said i don't have a problem with the picking of the fingers and people are used to that. and i don't have a problem with if your brother is a rat you are going to kill him. but i do have a problem with saying you are going to leave your mother on her deathbed. so he turns to jr and this next time we will leave that line out. mayor goodman. >> what was vegas like when you first moved here and what was it like, pardon me if i'm saying is wrong, but where the mobs in control of the city and do they still have a presence today? >> there is no mafia presence basically from the time that howard hughes and then being subjected by gated control supervision and age has done its part as well. as well as fbi surveillance and wiretaps. there is no mafia in the traditional sense. they have no bearing whatsoever. when i got here in 1964, my wife and i were driving to the east coast and we came to the top of the hill to overlook the entire valley and there were a couple of sprinkling like and because of that i don't believe there is a building taller than two stories high there. a tumbleweed came rolling through. i had not seen one outside of a cowboy movie. and she said, where have you bought these. and i said it was a different kind of town. it was a friendly town. 75,000 people, now we have millions. we had a social life that revolved around this. you saw the alleged mobsters and you saw the politician and sometimes they may have been saying. he saw the lawyers and the doctors and the rabbis and the priest and it was a very close community. it was different doing business in those days. maybe it is the same everyplace else for a handshake was all you had. were the only thing it would do is cause a lawsuit. and you gave a person who her word. it was smaller and it is nicer. and now it is a cosmopolitan city, a city with a lot of action in the bottom line was different than it was in those days when we got here. we would go to a casino and we would see individuals and great acts. they bring us a free drink, hors d'oeuvres, it was wonderful because they wanted us to come in and gamble. because that's what that is what las vegas is all about. gambling. but the advent of it being commonplace around the world, people don't come here to gamble as much as they do the other things. the town has reshaped itself. you can't beat it. wonderful retail shopping. as time went on, you went to target. if you wanted to see a show of intellect, he flew to san francisco. now we have a wonderful performing arts center we have financed shops in the world. so the whole different ballgame. which one do i like best? i think there are trade-offs. as i say, here you have the best of everything and it's available for those who live here as well as our visitors. in the old days we didn't have that. but there was something nice about relationships between people because evil are too busy many times. >> you write, sin city, i will take it. tilt by the mob, yes, so what. >> that's right. it is interesting. there were two different kinds of monsters. those who were designated mobsters by law enforcement and the media. fellows who came out from cleveland and individuals who came that were involved in murder. there were those kind of monsters designated by the press and law enforcement who became our founding fathers and these were the fellows who gave the money to build the catholic churches in the synagogues and they were philanthropist. they were very responsible for shaping las vegas into a legitimate city. and they would get man of the year awards from various civic organizations and deserve it because they left whatever issues they had behind. then there was another kind of monster that people did not know about. we were disclosed in the wiretaps and these were fellows that you thought if you knew who they were, that they were the most legitimate business guys in the business. they were 100% paid in taxes and we found out and listening to the tapes that they were not what they appear to be and they were hidden owners, which is a legal of these casinos. it didn't hurt anybody, but one thing i will say that in all the years that i i have lived here, i had never heard of the house cheating a player. funny of players to do the house. i've never heard of one instance where a player was cheated. i think that that was their code. basically that was the difference between old days in the new dates. >> i am a gambler, you're right, i have been all my life. baseball, football, basketball, and to cockroaches having a race. >> as a trial lawyer, i don't think -- if i were a brain surgeon and smart enough to do that, something of great dexterity and intellect, i probably would have been tired at night. but basically trying these cases, the adrenaline -- i always thought about them 24 hours a day and seven days a week. i took my work seriously and have always done so. i don't take myself seriously, but i take my word very seriously. when i left the courthouse, and after ice ready for the next day's proceedings. i became nervous. the courthouse provided me with that option and that's when i really started to say that there is not a day that goes by in my life i don't have a bet on something. if anyone wants to check that and they want to call me, they are welcome to do it. >> another quote that i want to read. i am also a drinker at. again, the first time that a guest has ordered a drink. i will tell everyone to call me after 5:00 o'clock. when i finish working i enjoy a martini or two. you commie and i will be vertically lucid and there is a good chance i won't remember our conversations and mark i guess that is the definition of a real drunk. i.t. never ended at 5:00 p.m., of course. after a while i take my pen and paper and jot down what the conversation was about. they would never know that i was drinking when they call because i was able to be very clear in the next day if you asked me whether i received a phone call from you, i have a hard time remembering. i have a hard time remembering whether they ate there or not. it all came together and i write about this in the book as well. when i first decided to run for mayor, there was a debate that was going to take place, which is a very affluent area where all of the people that live there are voters and they care about this. it was going to be a tough audience because they would expect something of substance. i had heard through the grapevine that my opponent -- my primary opponent was going to send in help for my temper. i just got a phone call that evening before the debate from my son, he was stationed down at cherry point and said, how's it going, and i said, well, i'm a little concerned and i have my egg debate and they are going to send someone an to talk about my drinking. and they say, you have to do it as a preemptive strike. i had no idea what he meant. he said from a preemptive strike if you have to take the sting out of it before it they sting you. i said to make some sense to me, so i get up and a fellow comes up that i knew. he had been a newspaper reporter. and i said, hello, and he said mr. goodman, i knew there was trouble there. he sent when was the last time you had been to city hall. well, i have never been to city hall. and i looked at him and i said -- and he turned around and started walking way for me as i was eating. and i said, wait a second, buddy. you asked me a question and you look me in the face when i enter the question. the audience said, oh, and he said, you're not supposed to talk to someone like that who is running for office. and i was upset at the sky. and i said i will tell you something. i have never been to city hall before and i will kill you something else, i am a drunk. and i drink to excess. i drink two bottles of gin a night. and i am a gambler and i will gamble on anything that moves. to cockroaches you talked about, you name the price and i will look it. well, when i said it, there was nothing else bad to say about me. i don't cheat on my wife, i don't abuse women. so they have nothing bad to say about me. i went through the entire election process without anyone being able to say anything that i didn't say about myself. then the next time because the way i did business, i got 86% of the vote and the next time i got 84% of the vote and i was still ready for the 16% of them vote for me. [laughter] >> were we successful as mayor? >> i think in the same way i was a lawyer. jurors are the smartest animals that there are. some people who don't know each other, they are from different walks of life and they take an oath that they are going to try to be fair and impartial according to the law. and they get so involved in trying to do the right thing but at their own percival sacrificed they put themselves in jeopardy as far as their health is concerned and emotions are concerned. i have always taken their job very seriously. one of my favorite books is catcher in the rye. holden caufield was one of my heroes not because the way he lived, but because he believed in not being a phony and i use that in my practice and the way i live my life. one thing they could say about me is that i am not a phony. and maybe a lot of things, a lot of people may not like me. but in all sincerity, i knew that the jurors could see through a lie and deception and for somebody trying to pull the wool over their eyes. so i looked at them right in the eyes one by one and told them the way that i perceive the issues to be. and as i said, i never professed my client's innocence because that is not what it was about. they were not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and i was able to argue that with great sincerity and great truthfulness. so basically i took that into the mayor's office with me. i have my news conferences where i stood naked basically in front of the media. they could ask me whatever they wanted and they were welcome to it and i told them the way that i saw it. every once in a while i said things that were gallant people and i was talking to a fourth-grade class. i love reading to kids and children. my favorite book is the three little pigs, the real story. it is about the wolf not being the bad guy. do stories to the youngsters. they loved it and i loved hand and desert they would have liked me to say that i set a bottle of gin i committed told children to i am the george washington of mayors. thing about the book. people don't like the. no one was advocating eating babies, but he was trying to get a beautifying are very pressure on beautiful desert and punk that i will cut everyone said, how can this finally got them to pay attention to graffiti on fremont , he had to come gave it and i stuttering that i did business at the mayor of 1999. >> i'm in american history. i'm so proud of myself. spouse to succeed him and about something right now, there is no truth onto my side even without her that might be i have not been as great as to a love affair and we have been married for 51 years and have is a very wise and smart no, it's 100%. as long as you can respect one another you can have has been a great ride asked for three things when he got married. what were they and have you filled them just she wanted a horse and is a good horse. and she i started to make money, said promises to god if they would tried for but she wants to curtsy it is on her able to get her there grandson yes, if she could curtsy to the queen, the prince on his next majority who were all candidates they can't even i un-american and i if they wanted to eat dinner, they couldn't do it they have or calling him and we fell out of love with one when i was elected mayor, he threw and of many of the things we right now we tell stories in his it is a better relationship are your politics? >> i started off coming out part of the association we were kidding about that this morning. he was running for from republican to democrat so we could support him if they are not affiliated with any party. , that personal animosity and i think that is. i don't in the country can't run like that. fee, there is a remedy. >> it's a you now, can you to get me off. and i say, what is the offense, tell will cost you 100 say, why where there is. >> you also. that they take care of some of their underlings send a lawyer out to see there is made treated that way. they were i'm not saying that it is right, but i'm wife and is pretty smart and there is that they is i don't like rats should be that too many that is he said all we heard from the prosecutor and they say he did tell them that and he is still. >> and i wasn't getting any other parts. i decided that i loved the movie so much i have to figure into the and i said if anyone is going to make a move so he says i cannot they went into an do you know who i am to jackie movie as long the and they i said

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