where is she, by the way? >> oh, gosh. well, he got kickedded out of oakland for sexual harassment, part-timely. >> i was -- finally. i was surprised jerry pulled the trigger. >> he had to. >> no choice. >> he had to. the reports, you know. >> yeah. >> and then what happened is he ended up in europe, and i heard he's very ill. >> oh, that's too bad. >> but he's on his, like, seventh wife. oh, okay. so you might not know who our very good friend mandy grunwald is. she's maybe one of the best political minds in washington. >> yeah. >> her father was henry grunwald who was the publisher at time magazine in its hayday and ambassador to -- heyday -- i'm going to give him a quick briefing, and ambassador to austria. one of the last -- [inaudible] of new york. so just when you think you know everybody in new york, you don't unless you know mandy grunwald, okay? >> i love it. >> she is it. mandy ran all the media for elizabeth warren, tammy baldwin -- >> oh, wow. >> all the -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] >> okay? so you just need to understand she's got an amazing -- >> yeah. oh, incredible. got it. >> yeah. [inaudible conversations] >> hey, weren't you undersecretary -- [inaudible] well done. >> [inaudible] >> my pleasure. >> so nice to -- >> you enjoy it? >> it was fun, yeah. >> i mean, is the work hard? >> technically, it's okay. but, um -- [inaudible] >> i got it. [inaudible conversations] >> it's all processed personalities. but in the state it's tribal. >> okay. >> but people are so much more sensitive. >> are they? >> they're -- >> why? >> the press is more sensitive, the press is more attuned to the -- [inaudible] where at low government they're so used to it, they're waiting for the big one. >> who cares? whatever! [laughter] >> yeah. so it's interesting to calibrate that. i remember i got in a little trouble with jerry brown when i said he's doing a great job -- this is the exact quote. he's doing a great job on solving things but what we need is a plan for greatness. >> and then you got blowback. >> and then they said newsome attacks governor. >> there's -- [inaudible] >> i get the economy which is the number one issue, and i didn't say he welcomes the capacity -- lacks the capacity for a agreement -- >> [inaudible] >> it just created all that friction. i did it on one of hose npr shows, but myway -- >> how do you like it? >> first year was tough. this year i'm acclimated. >> [inaudible] >> i will. of. [inaudible conversations] >> what are you working on now? >> [inaudible] >> oh, good. al's good. >> they're both pretty smart -- [inaudible] they're both laid back -- [inaudible] >> right, right. >> and they're a little dangerous -- [inaudible] neither of them has an opponent, and we're trying to keep it that way. >> that's good. >> what's going to happen in your state? i take it the governor's going to -- >> yeah, he already has $7 million in the bank. >> no desire to go anywhere. >> physiologically, you can see he's having the time of his life. because what he's doing is working, and he's getting that positive feedback. and -- >> does he give you your space to do anything? >> no. no, no. he goes out to the way to make sure that there's no space, which is fine. i get that. i think there's a reason heath been around 40 years -- he's been around 40 years, and it's not perm. he's good at making sure. but think about it, willie brown i worked with on the board of supervisors and became mayor who ran california as speaker with all his unique talents and skill sets, and now watching jerry brown with all his unique talents. two totally different people. one -- [inaudible] and so i just, for me just as a student, it's one incredible gift to watch both of them. >> it's a dream job for both of you. >> governor. >> [inaudible] >> i do. of course, but i love the executive. you know, i have a business background, i like -- >> it will only go one way or other. there are few people who enjoy both, there are a lot of people who like -- >> yeah. >> mark warner, for example, the governor -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] he's really not shy about saying it, you know? >> he is, huh? >> [inaudible] term limited, you can only run for one term. >> are they going to ever change that? does the public understand how that limits their -- [inaudible] >> i think you could probably -- [inaudible] >> actually, the answer i learned is that you have to -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] >> still? in this case i'm glad considering that kind of job. how. >> you? -- how are you? nice to see you. good to see you again. >> thank you for coming. [inaudible conversations] >> that's going to happen. >> i work with bonnie. good to see you. >> thank you. thank her. >> how are you gavin? how are you? >> good. [inaudible conversations] picking your brain tonight. i get the scoop, the whole thing off the record. get her a few glasses of wine -- [inaudible] [inaudible conversations] >> we have to do something. >> well, congratulations. >> thank you. on -- >> on your book. i saw you this morning. >> oh, did you? on morning joe? you were up early. i've got to defend these tax increases. i've been on every show -- >> i know. [inaudible conversations] >> it's unbelievable. i'm impressed how you keep that up. and it creates perception, right? that's what we've got -- wouldn't it be nice if we read about jerry out there going to boston and houston and going to salt lakety? i mean, wouldn't that -- salt lake city? i mean, you want to change the national narrative -- >> an older guy. that's why you need to do it. >> you want to -- yeah, it's tough. >> okay. >> oh, okay. i'll make it -- it's a long speech. very long speech. >> he's a look at some books that are being published this week. jeb bush, former republican governor of florida, and clint bolick, vice president of litigation at the goldwater institute, outline their plan for immigration reform in "immigration wars: forging an american solution." in "out of order: stories from the history of the supreme court," former supreme court justice sandra day o'connor presents a history of the high court and profiles several former justices. former president george h.w. bush presents an updated edition of his personal correspondences in "all the best: george bush, my life in letters and other writings." in "the secretary: a journey with hillary clinton from beirut to the heart of the american power," kim ghattas presents a firsthand account of hillary clinton's tenure as secretary of state. mary robinson, the first woman president of ireland recounts her life in "everybody matters." in "the end of power: from boardrooms to battlefields and churches to state, why being in charge isn't what it used to be," the former editor-in-chief of foreign policy argues that power has become easier to obtain but also easier to lose. look for these titles in bookstores this coming week and watch for the authors in the near future on booktv and on booktv.org. >> i was fascinated by her feminist view, you know in remember the ladies, you're going to be in trouble. i'm paraphrasing, only, but she warned her husband you can't rule without including what women want and what women have to contribute. and, i mean, this is 1700s. she's saying that. >> abigail adams, this monday night on c-span's new history series, "first ladies: unnuance and image." called mrs. president by her detractors, she was outspoken on her views about slavery and women's rights. she provides a unique window into colonial america and her life with john adams. join in the conversation on abigail adams live monday night at 9 eastern on c-span, c-span radio and c-span.org. >> next, from albuquerque we hear from dave debit, the author of "growing medical marijuana" discusses current efforts to legalize marijuana. dave dewitt. >> well, i've been a marijuana grower back in the day, in the early '70s. mostly in my basement under just grow lights that were, you know, fluorescent lights, not the fancy ones that they have now. i did pretty good at it, and i had bought a book called "marijuana botany," because there was no grow guide for marijuana in those days. it's not particularly hard to grow, so when i came out here and found out that new mexico was legalizing medical marijuana, i was curious about it because it's part of a national movement that's happening. and so i knew a grower who's older than i am, if you can believe that. and he was licensed, and i tracked his first year of growing anything. it was his first plant he's ever grown, never grown house plants or a garden, and he managed to do a pretty good job in his first year. i sort of helped him out a little bit, and then we tracked his successes, his failures, his triumphs, his disappointments, the whole thing. now there's 20 states and the district of of columbia that have some form of medical marijuana. two states were recreational marijuana is legal, that's washington and colorado which, of course, is our northern neighbor. in addition to states making money off of medical marijuana, they're making money off of recreational marijuana because they've legalized it. but they want to control it. so here's what happened in the state of washington. originally, there were state liquor stores, but they privatized the liquor industry -- some say through pressure from costco which is based in washington -- and so all these state liquor stores were sitting vacant. then they legalized marijuana. so what do you suppose is going to go into those vacant stores? you're right. it's medical marijuana stores or just marijuana stores in general. but, of course, they're all going to be taxed and regulated, and the state is expecting to make tens of millions of dollars to start with this. and i think that, this is my opinion, i think that once other states see the kind of money that's being generated from marijuana when it's either legal or legalized for medical use is going to persuade these states, um, to legalize it in some form or another. the reason that the governments are going to get involved more and more and more is because they can make money on it by taxing it at a certain particular rate, but they have to be careful that the taxation doesn't put the marijuana into a price range that somebody's going to buy it on the street instead of buying it from are a dispensary. of course, alcohol is so well regulated that, um, you don't really have the opportunity. should i buy my beer from walgreens, or fred is a home brewer down the street, should i buy it from him? that doesn't happen all that much, in my opinion, but i think the states are smart. they have to fill holes in their revenue. we have to educate our children. the money in bad years is just not there, so they have to have some other substance to bring in the money. if it's not alcohol and cigarettes, they've got to have marijuana. and, yes, there are organized groups who oppose legalization of marijuana, but you can't find very many of them. and more importantly, though, is the national organization for the reform of marijuana laws, norml, failed miserably in its attempts to legalize recreational marijuana. but then seized upon medical marijuana and have had enormous success with that. thinking that that is the, just like they say, you smoke a little bit of marijuana and next you're on to heroin. in this case, you smoke a little bit of legal medical mare, and you're on to legalization. sort of a steppingstone. and the ones who have legalized it already had legal medical mare, so, you know, it's just a development kind of thing. it's no so shocking and all that. the next state to legalize marijuana could possibly be new york. that is my opinion. and the northern, more liberal states and the western states in particular, um, are going to be the states most likely to legalize marijuana at this point in time. i'm not sure any states will legalize marijuana. if they happen to be south of the mason dixon line. those are, basically, republican-dominated, conservative states, and i think it'd be unlikely for them to legalize it anytime in the near future with the possible exception of texas. there's a liberal element in texas, mostly based in austin and dallas, that, you know, is growing fast. and it may not be all conservatives in texas, isn't now. and that could change. and especially especially when they start seeing the amount of money that can be made doing this, um, it's very tempting for state legislatures. the marijuana cat is out of the bag, folks, and the federal government's not going to be able to stuff it back in that bag, was now think what would happen if there are main stores in -- marijuana stores in washington bringing in a lot of tax income and all of a sudden the federal government tries to shut them down, it would with be a states' rights issue that you would not believe what's going to happen here. the feds aren't going to go will, i don't think. i don't think they can. i just don't see how they could possibly take on 20 states. i mean, we'd have another civil war, something like that. it wouldn't be about slavery, it's be about freedom to smoke marijuana. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2, 48 hours of of nonfiction authors and books every weekend. >> hedrick smith's newest book is called "who stole the american dream?" he joins us on booktv. mr. smith, who stole the american dream? >> well, you've got to get into the whole story of the narrative of our last 30 or 40 years. it happens in wedge economics inside the economic system, middle class gets cut out of its share of american growth and prosperity. that's basically american corporate leaders are doing that. and there's a big power shift in washington, and it's led by a guy named louis powell, the supreme court justice before he went on the court writes a secret memo to the business leaders of america and says you're getting taken to the cleaners by the consumer movement, by the environmental movement, by the labor movement, and you've got to get into washington and get in the game. they got in the game, and ever since then we've had a policy tilt, since the late 1970, a policy tilt that has hurt the middle class and moved money uphill, against gravity, defying the laws of gravity, up to the wealthy from the middle class. so it's both political and economic. it's not just a bunch of guys sitting around in a room saying let's screw the middle class. it happened historically, but if we don't understand how and why, we're not going to get to a good fix of our situation right now. >> what's one example of how the middle class, in your view, hats gotten hurt. >> well, take the 401(k) program. it came in in place of lifetime pensions. it shifted hundreds of billions of dollars from the accounting of corporations onto the shoulders of the middle class. take the housing crisis. $6 trillion of accumulated wealth in the mortgages and the equity in american homes was moved during the housing boom. not the bust, the boom. $6 trillion moved from middle class homeowners to wall street banks. those are two, big, enormous changes in wealth that happened during this period. >> when did you start forming the idea to write this book? the power game, correct? >> well, to be perfectly honest, i'd done a bunch of documentaries for pbs on is walmart good for america, can you afford to retire. it got me into economics and politics. and i was really interested in the housing cry is us, the subprime. turns out the main victims of subprime or were actually prime borrowers. but when i got boo that, i began to see the same kind of patterns that i'd seen in job offshoring, that i'd seen in the burden shift on retirement. and i said wait a minute, there's a story here about the american middle class, what's happened to them. actually, i didn't start with the title, who stole the american dream. i started with the title "the dream at risk." i knew there was a problem. everybody knew there was a problem for the middle class. it was only as i got into it i kept discovering more and more things, i realized this was not impersonal market forces, this was not technology, this was not globalization. what was happening was american politics and american economics were working against the middle class. people did this. we decided this. if you look at other countries like germany, their middle class is in better shape, they've done better trading against the world, their companies are making money. so a lot of the things that we heard that were not possible in america are actually happening in germany, and their wages have gone up five times faster than ours. there's something wrong inside the american political and economic system. and that's what this book is about. >> "who stole the american dream," hedrick smith is the author. thank you for being on booktv. >> is there a nonfiction author or book you'd like to see featured on booktv? send us an e-mail at [email protected] or tweet us at twitter.com/booktv. >> what it is is a memoir, first of all. it's a little bit of a memoir of my travels in russia. it's a memoir of the a number of the people who are in the book. we've gone through 20 years together, so it's a memoir of the last 20 years since the soviet union fell apart. it's a history. it's a history of the oil industry but also in parallel to history of russia these past 0 years -- 20 years, the initial collapse in the 1990s and then the gradual recovery the decade after. so we end up with the russia that we see today after this long cycle of the russian oil industry which has gone through the same cycle. it's a biography. it's a multiple biography of a number of people but in particular of the clan that emerged in the 1990s from the city of st. petersburg. and came to moscow with putin in the year 2000. and you could sum up the last 20 years of russian history by saying that this is the revenge of of st. petersburg over moscow as the clans from st. petersburg take over and are very large hi without -- largely without much exaggeration in command. this is very much a st. petersburg crowd, so a history of the e emergence of that crowd, and this is the latest chapter in the 300-year rivalry between the two capitals. so it's a tale of two cities. a murder mystery, but i can't give you the names of the -- [laughter] the guilty ones in every case. but you can draw your own conclusions. there are some marvelous unsolved mysteries that may be with unraveled someday. most never will. it used to be said in russia in the 1990s that you could tell if a business was profitable from the trail of bodies that led to the front door of the business involved. if there were no bodies, it wasn't worth paying attention to because it couldn't possibly be profitable. i'll leave it to your imagination why, for example, the international red cross was high profitable by -- highly profitable by that measure in the 1990s in russia. one clue is the subsidies that you could get for the import of tax-free tobacco and alcohol to benefit good causes such as the red cross. this was profitable and, therefore, of interest. it's even a science fiction story. because what we're dealing here really when you come right down to it is the meeting of two alien civilizations after 70 years of the soviet period. the oil industry in particular grew up in almost complete isolation from the west, and this is virtually a unique case. we have other places where oil industries have grown up, where oil industries are run by national oil companies, but in almost every case, in fact in every case, these industries were first founded by foreigners and then were taken over. not so in the case of russia where from the 1920 on, at any rate, for all practical purposes the oil industry was home grown and developed its own culture, its own civilization even as the soviet union did with its own language and its own culture. i sometimes like to tell my classes that a the story of russia in the 20th century is very much that of a people who decided that capitalism didn't work, so it's as though they all piled into a space capsule and took off and landed on the planet mars and started a completely different civilization in which the market was thrown out and prices and profits and private ownership and built that civilization and actually made it run for nearly six, seven decades. not well, but it ran. and then they decided that it wasn't working particularly well, so they all piled back into their space capsule and came back to earth. which is something remarkable. this is something russians do every so often. they will conduct these massive social science, peoplers on themselves -- experiments on themselves. this isn't the first time they've done it. so here they are back on earth again, and the oil industry suddenly faced the world oil industry. and so the book is very much how these two civilizations have come to terms with one another. which has not been easy because these past 20 years have been a time of revolution in the global oil industry. and so suddenly you land on earth, and you suddenly find yourself, at least in the oil industry, faced with a race. the question is, how have the russians done in that race? talented oil people that they are, talented engineering culture that they are. that's part of the story. the book is, has tragic heroes and tragic antiheroes, one of whom is in jail, and i wanted to avoid making in the story of him and yet in the end this man who was briefly the richest man in russia who ran the most successful private oil company in russia at the time of his arrest in 2003, this man has been in jail now for nearly ten years. in october 2013 he will be in jail for ten years, and this very much is the result of a blood match with his nemesis, vladimir putin. and, of course, one of the big questions is when will he get out. no one knows. but the other question is what exactly did he do? and there has been a great deal of coverage of this man. and i didn't want to add to that whole literature. but what i have tried to do is to go into his company, and i've had interviews with a number of the players in that company to try to find out what was unique about that company that he built, what was unique that enabled it to double oil production within four short years? how was that done? and so you'll find there's a chapter on that side of the story. and then lastly i to say that there is -- i have to say that this is a story of guilty love, which i'll come back to if you ask me. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> are you interested in being part of book tv's new online book club? each month we will discuss a different book and author. in this month we'll be discussing michelle alexander's "the new jim crow: mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness." throughout your month post your thoughts about the book on twitter and write on our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. then on tuesday, march 26th, at 9 p.m. eastern join our live, moderated discussion on twitter hash tag btv book club. send us your suggestions on books you'd like to read as part of the book club via twitter, facebook, or e-mail [email protected]. >> i want to move to the role of publish ors in this new world. it used to be that publishers would take care of all distribution, they would take careful of production, and they would provide the advance. and that series of services led them to take a very hefty cut, a 95% cut. finish now, now you don't need production because you can put it out on the web, you don't need an advance because it doesn't cost that much to write, or you can crud fund the advance using something like kickstarter, and you don't need the distribution, again, because you can put it on the web. and so what is the changing role of publish everybodies -- publishers in this new world where production and distribution and financing are starting to be taken by different technologies? >> so there's a lot in there, and let me kind of unpack it. first, i actually disagree fundamentally with a couple of things. um, there's, there are production, distribution costs, and, um, you know, tasks involved whether it's digital or physical. i think it's a very common sort of misunderstanding. it's very easy to think that digital is free. and it's not. i mean, there's a lot of backlash, actually, if you will over some of the early books. and we've got an extensive back list, thousands and thousands of books that were converted. there's a conversion process that takes plus, and there's a lot of care and feeding that must go into that because in the early days when you're just sort of literally scanning books to get them into an e-format, you just were not replicating the book properly. so, first of all, there's still a production not just cost, but an entirely new -- [inaudible] around production of a digital book and presenting that properly. i'm actually looking at our chead of children -- head of children's publishing pause she knows because she and i have these conversations all the time. when you talk about children's books and how to produce something, um, that is for color that, you know, conveys the gorgeous illustrations, um, that the artist intended -- >> with but if that's true, surely that's only true for the first copy. >> correct. >> and every one thereafter is free, because there's no marginal costs to make ten million copies. >> right. you lose paper, printing and binding. >> [inaudible] >> yep, the marginal cost of paper or, printing and binding. >> and shipping. >> and shipping. >> and warehousing. [laughter] >> not necessarily. not necessarily -- >> yeah, it does. [laughter] >> no, not necessarily. there's a, there is a deep infrastructure that is needed to support digital operations. the other thing i would mention about the state of publishing today is if you talk about the future of reading, the future of publishing, you know, where are e-books going to go, that's kind of the big question, will it be a complete swapping out from the digital as has happened in music, for example, and in film, photography that is, in books, um, i believe there's none of that swapping out. children's books, i think, are a great example where there's a very, very strong desire to have a physical book to share with your child. now, that's today. five, ten years from now, you know, we might be speaking on something different. but today publishers are in a world where they can't be jumping tracks from physical to digital wholly. we're truly supporting two businesses. you're continuing to support the print business while supporting the digital business. underlying that is sort of a third business that you are, that you are cultivating which is getting to the place where we're not talking about the conversion of e-books merely taking what used to be in a physical form and now putting it over into a digital form, but the creation of digital products, the creation from really creating a digital product from something that was initially conceived with the author, developed to be a completely new digital product. the role of publishers in that scenario because it's like the one thing you had forgotten, i think, on your list of what publishers do, it's really the heart of what we do, it's the editorial. it's in bringing that story, you know, shaping that story, and you bring it to market in the best possible way. that still exists and exists, i think, in an even more exciting way when you talk about the creation of digital--only process. >> shaping the story may be the only role because there's almost nothing left after -- helping insure -- >> that's just wrong! [laughter] i always wanted to get my john mclachlan on. seriously, you're wrong. [laughter] i will say this, you know, as the other side. we're partners here. of she's not my publisher, but she is a publisher. >> she might be. >> i'm happy where i am. i have an exclusive arrangement with harper about who's doing what here. and, again, because i came from more of a digital foundation, i was skeptical of everything. i can do that, i got spell check, what have you got? [laughter] and it turns out i was wrong about a few things, i was right about a few things, and i learned a ton in the process. in terms of the editorial, having an editor was great. of course, i could have gone and hired a great writer/editor to help me through the process. i'm happy to have the support of the person at harper, barry harbaugh, that was really cool. the distribution of digital to still support digital, that i ignored completely. i basically got free advertising across the nation on book shelves. i can't buy that. no single person can afford to distribute 10, 15, 20,000 books into the hundreds and hundreds of bookstores and libraries all around the world: and digital-only doesn't do that. you cut off the physical marketing in that sense. so that helps support the digital. when they ran out of physical books, my e-book sales spiked, so there was a level of demand regardless of format. you could see the charts, they switched over. but they would have probably gotten physical ones. and then the actual marketing of the thing, me and my campaign manager for the book, a guy named craig who i met through the onion, we built this rabid internet army digital plan x harper or did the more traditional big media plan and got me on msnbc and all these things that, again, individuals, or very hard. that's a network game. and that's a rolodex guam. and there's a finite amount a of people who can talk to a finite amount of people to make that sort of thing happen. and the flood of authors can't all pull that off on their own. so i, you know, found out that i was wrong that publishers are useless. [laughter] and i was glad for it, you know? because we were splitting this here money, and i want today make sure we're both doing something. [laughter] and i learned a lot about, you know, the excitement, the upside and the limits of of what, you know, individual authors or authors who create a collective or create their own kind of digital presence. but there's a flood of readers, there's also of writing and words versus tweets and bookings, more books than ever. and how do you discover, how do you discern, how do you convince somebody that you're worth their time, you know? anticipation is the currency -- attention is the currency, and whether they're watching a cat play a fiddle on youtube or reading about the future of blackness, like, that's an equal choice to some people. [laughter] right? in the bit world just competing for pixels, we're competing for real estate, we're competing for mental real estate, and there's so many extra writers competing for attention that a publisher, you know, who knows what they're doing can add a little on top of the individual kickstarter, you know, moving artist or somebody who's got a blog platform, i'm going to print out my blog and call it a book. >> i think that's true, but you're an exception because you wrote a bestseller. the shelf life of a book, i'm sure that cheryl would confirm this, is a matter of weeks or days. and most books don't make it into bookstores. we're live anything a different world. >> true. >> now, i degree this world or publishers are crucial. i'm really worried about booksellers, however, because that middle person is beginning to disappear and outfits like amazon are transforming the the way books reach readers. and then there's a movement in the other direction that i think very few people notice. there were about 350,000 new titles published in the u.s. last year. that's a 6% increase over the previous year in paper. the book industry's actually doing very well, although publishers are always wringing their hands and saying it's the end of the world. [laughter] but compare with that 350,000 700,000 books were self-published. twice as many books are produced by individual authors who put them online and have something to say. now, you might claim that there's a lot of garbage among that 7500 -- 700,000 books, but i think there's a lot of good stuff as well. so i really feel if you look at the publishing industry -- i don't know if you agree -- we are witnessing a transformation in its structure. so some of the middle intermediaries are moving out, and somehow the public