[inaudible conversations] welcome, everybody, to the International Spy museum. I am mark stout, former historian of the museum, the current historian is out of town on a secret mission which he will hear about in the future, i am always delighted to come back to my old haunt and step in when necessary. I think it will be a Wonderful Program we are putting on in cooperation with the Norwegian Embassy because this story we are hearing tonight is about a world war ii famous and dramatic world war ii raid into norway conducted by norwegians. It was obvious to partner up with the Norwegian Embassy so i would like to say by way of introduction to our friends from the Norwegian Embassy, specifically, minister, counselor for communications, Cultural Affairs and education at the royal Norwegian Embassy. He has been serving in washington for 10 months on this particular tour. He served previously a decade or so ago, preceding in oslo at the foreign minister where he has been a number of times but also served in good diplomatic fashion in mozambique, poland, switzerland and morocco. The entire Norwegian Embassy are good friends of the International Spy museum. We have done some fun and interesting events with them as we are delighted to work with them tonight and have them here. Perhaps a few words from our norwegian friends. [applause] good evening, everyone, we are delighted to work at the spy museum. Thank you for hosting this program. We will hear about an event that is part of the history of my own country. I am happy it does not take a bigger part in shaping the worlds history because that might have been the same thing. The embassy is pleased to be a partner. A few days ago norway celebrated the 71st anniversary of the surrender of the Nazi Occupying forces of the first second world war. It is a long time, long enough for people to forget. Long enough for new generations never to learn what happened, not to speak of reflecting on the significance of what happened. Historians know they should never ask hypothetical questions. What would have happened, they are supposed to explain what led to certain outcomes. In the case of the heavy water operation in norway, it is a little bit tempting to speculate what would our societies have looked like if the nazis had succeeded in their ambitions to produce an atomic bomb . In norway the germans were producing a key ingredient to such a bomb. Some of the production is here in the room. Im sure you will hear about that later. Two initial attempt to stop the production failed. 41 young commandos lost their lives as a result. The third attempt was successful and we all look forward to hearing neal bascomb talk about this. In particular, i know that there is a young man sitting right here, 7 years old and he is here because his grandmothers brother was the last of the commandos to leave the plant after they planted the bomb for the kaiser. He is no longer alive i understand. This is part of their family history. Thank you and i look forward to listening to neal bascombs presentation. [applause] a few words about neal bascomb, neal bascomb is the New York Times bestselling and awardwinning author of quite a number of books, all nonfiction which tend to focus on Inspiring Stories of adventure and achievement, Brad Meltzer Neal bascomb studied economics and English Literature and worked as a journalist in europe for a number of years and an editor at st. Martins press, makes his living writing books which makes him a rare individual and very successful in this endeavor. His first book was a historic race to the sky and making of the city, about new york city. That was selected for the barnes noble discover great new writers award and was featured on a History Channel documentary. He wrote a book called the perfect mile about Roger Bannister and ultimately successful effort to break the four minute mile. His third book was read mutiny about the 1905 mutiny on the battleship attempt in in the late days of czarist russia. His fourth book which i believe you can find alongside the winter fortress was about israeli intelligences mission to find Adolf Eichmann and bring him to israel, the story about a rendition. The story was so successful. A young adult addition called nazi hunters was put out and won a number of awards. Neal bascombs work has been translated into 15 languages, featured in several documentaries and options for film and television projects. Neal bascomb is not only able to make his living as a writer but live in seattle, washington. As you imagine from someone who lives in seattle he is an avid skier and coffee drinker and as a coffee the other resident he is definition a good guy and we are glad to have him. Neal bascomb. [applause] it is taller than i am. One second. Trying to find my notes. I will be saying that speech again. I want to thank International Spy museum for cosponsoring this event, thank you all for coming this evening. Last week i was driving in seattle listening to npr in this interview with Chris Anderson and over the course of the interview i was listening avidly and chris said the longest you can maintain an audiences attention is 18 minutes. You guys will be here for roughly 2 and a half hours. So hold tight. I have written quite a few different kinds of books. Skyscrapers, four minute mile, czarist russia, people often ask me what is going on here, what is the theme, why the disparate kinds of books. My wife says, i think an generously, i choose my books based on where i want to travel next. Norway is a lovely place to travel so that may be slightly accurate but i choose my books, focus on stories and this may be a cliche but the stories that grab me, stories about ordinary people doing extraordinary things. This story of the atomic sabotage classifies within that. This is a story about atomic sabotage, heavy water, should have heavy stuff in it. I dont want to lose sight of what was important in this story. I would like to read a letter by a norwegian scientist, chemist who orchestrated the sabotage and devoted the rest of his life to it. He was in london, went to london and worked with the british and wrote a series of letters to his family who was still back in norway, many to his young daughter, his son was too young to read but in one of these, written in 1943, he tried to explain why he was away, was very upset. I would like to read a part of it here. We would like to do everything to make it free again. When we say our fatherland we dont just mean the land that is beautiful the we also love but Everything Else we love, mother, little boy and you and fathers and mothers and children, and wonderful memories of from the time we ourselves were small and when we had children of our own, home villages with lakes and ponds and rivers and streams and waterfalls and the smell of new hey, spring and the forest, even the lighting winter cold, everything. Norwegian songs and music and so much more. That is the fatherland, that is what we struggle to get back, that is why i am here. Lets turn to atomic physics. You guys are all very excited i can see. It is important to describe what heavy water is, why it is important, regular h2o, you have water, you can drink, it has hydrogen, hydrogen has a single electron and a single proton. Heavy water, deuterium is the variance or isotope of hydrogen. It has a neutron within the nucleus, makes it heavier. Why that is important, in the course of the war the germans and americans were attempting to build heavy water reactors, sustaining Nuclear Reactors and they needed a moderator, heavy water with graphite where you have neutrons within the reactor and you need to slow them down to foster the decision. The thing h2o does if you have neutrons flinging around, it might slow them down but it absorbs those neutron stealing them away from a potential chain reaction. Heavy water doesnt absorb them. They bombard, they flow the neutrons move on. This fosters a change reaction chain reaction. Heavy water reactors, the idea, the germans knew this and americans knew this by 1942. If you have a heavy water reactor, if you have plutonium you have the basic for an atomic bomb. This is the atomic bomb explosion over nagasaki, a plutonium bomb. When many people talk about the german Atomic Bomb Program they talk about werner heisenberg, the gentleman on the far left. At the start of the war the americans and germans were in the same place, they both knew after the first splitting of the atom that the potential for the atomic power or atomic weapon is very viable. They both move forward on programs, heisenberg was part of that program, he was a genius, a theoretical physicist who won the nobel prize in his early 30s but he wasnt the key man of the german Atomic Bomb Program. The gentleman on your far right was, doctor even her, he worked in the Army Ordinance department and for years through the mid30s was telling his bosses we should focus on atomic physics. The reason we are here tonight is heavy water. And there was a single plant in all the world that produced it in any quantity a placeed located about 100 miles and sat on the edge of of a place about 3500 square miles which is a plateau of ice and rock and most often snow. Now, its very hard to make heavy water. They were doing it so you need cheap electric power. It was the perfect placed to build a heavy water factory. The norweian, the 1940s germans said we want all your heavy water as much as you can give us. What do you need that for . The germans, engineer said, well, we cant tell you. No heavy water for the germans until the spring of 1940 when the germans occupied norway rather quickly. They went and sent engineers and scientists, told them to ramp up production, first twofold, five fold and then tenfold, as much heavy water as could be produced, they wanted. The problem with heavy party plant, he needed what he said was five tons for selfsustaining reactors. I will introduce and as background, he was raised by single mother with several sibling, he was very smart and didnt have much money, he pulled himself up in the american way, studied in germany, studied in england, was very well regarded as a student, came back and was ready to start his life with his childhood sweet heart, he asked i can do one of two things and you need to help me decide, i can be a teacher which is what i love to do or i can make as much money as you want me to make and i can work to industry and do quite well and she said i want you to be a teacher. His dad was a vigorous man, couldnt sit still, constantly working and doing and so he turns out to mick a lot of money too and he did that by consulting can industrial concerns, in the mid 30s he decided that heavy water had recently been discovered. No one was able to produce quantity and he had the electric plant and wouldnt be it great to have something that produces in great quantity, and he does it. It is a financial and utter economic disaster, nobody wants it, nobody is interested, obviously until the splitting of the atom until people realized what its worth is. Ambition with it was a pure science, to see if it could be done, first experiment Practical Application later. Im not sure how norris would react about that. It froze at slightly higher temperature. The germans goes underground and starts buying on the germans, what they are doing, particularly spying on increase in production and why they are doing, the gestapo discovers what hes doing, he hears theyre come for him, he escapes by train, puts his family at childhood home, goes to london and quite quickly although the brittic Scientific Community said, well, what we want you to do to develop Scientific Technology for you and what he said was, i want to fight, i want to fight for my country. Now, the reason i know this is because i was able thanks his son to assemble the dairies that life wrote from the time he got on that train, the first entry is on that train when hes going down to the moment of his death. Daily interests of what he was thinking, doing and he wanted to fight. Here he is in his uniform. The british soe, the special Operations Executive as some of you may know most famously the ministry of ungentlemenly warfare. So what is his role and high on his risk is attacking and partners up with a man named colonel wilson and the head of the british soe in norway and they start hashing out plans to go, now this is about april of 1942 and by 19 42 allies are advancing and theyre realizing that this is possible, this can happen and they also realize that with the german science, they will also be in the same place and they know that heavy water is critical and they also know that it will be used contentionly for plutonium. This is one of my favorite letters in the story because its so bland since experiments confirmed element 94 thats plutonium would be good for military Services Since its prepared in systems involving the use of heavy water, the Committee Recommends that attempt should if possible be made to stop production. Summer 1942, Wilson Roosevelt sit down and discuss two things, one the invasion of mainland europe, and two what to do about the Atomic Bomb Program. It is here where first discussions move forward that the americans will take over and the british will advise but this is the beginning of the manhattan project. At this very meeting they discussed water and what was happening. And churchill writes in memoirs of this term named heavy water. What is determined by 1942 by churchill is we need to hit it, we need to do whatever we can to hit it and the mission is on. If the british had a secret weapon, einer was born beside the dam at lake which provide it had water for the hydroelectric plant. This is a place where its a necessity, if something is broken, you fix it. He was born with expert skis on his feet. Now, here is einer, this is the cheeriest picture i could find of einer, he looks very happy and i love this picture because if i identify one thing is toughness. Something very different from the face you see here. He was probably the toughest person i read about research over the course of the story. He we wanted to fight when germans came and occupied his village, and so one day he took those to his mother and said im going to go on a skiing trip. Im going to go hunting reindeer, i will see you in three weeks, instead of going north he goes southwest to the coast on his way he crashes while skiing, i dont know how that happens. He didnt record it. And he hurts his knees badly and they have the ambition to highjack a steamer by gunpoint and reach scottland. Decent plan, the problem is his knee is worst and worst and injured terribly, he goes to the doctor and says i need surgery on this need, will you perform it today, they said, we will. Youll seed a week or two to recover and he said, today, now, no. No anethetic, not 24 hours later he was in commander with another couple of other je. They reached scottland and einer is thinking, im going to become a train soldier and then then ill be able to fight. Who is in town and so sends a man to get einer on the train directly to london and brings him to his office and says, youre leaving in a week. Youre going to be my spy on the ground. Youre going to provide information to me on the plant and einer, of course, said yes. He gets one week of training, one week of parachute training mixed with wireless radio training. And then einer is on a bomb esh across the north sea and over norway. Theres a hole in the bottom of the plane that hes going to jump through and the problem is that einer is afraid of heights. [laughter] i love history and theres books written on this and he curls himself through that hole. The reports the british i love the british. They keep dispatch reports of dropped operations. The dispatch writes about shoving eineer through the hole to get him down, but einer jumps down and lands on the knee and skis home, hello, mother, back from my skiing vacation. [laughter] and begins to spy, he begins to live the double life, but einer was a spy for over three years, probably one of the long est soviet spies and provided an absolute wealth of information. He provided guard rotations, profession quotas, what locks were on the doors, where the stairwell, everything you need to know. They joked that they had so much information that they could build it themselves in britain. Thats what einer and the people who helped him produced for life. But what to do about it, what operation, how do we destroy, how do we perform what churchill and roosevelt want us to do. Now, the allies, particularly the americans, maybe this is an american thing, they wanting to the fast course, they want to bomb it. Just destroy it from the air. Here is this plan and he says, no. He says no for two reasons. One, there are a lot of civilians that live around that area. North town, theres over 5,000 People Living there. Any bombing operation is going to kill a number of civilians. And two, this plant is tens of thousands of con credit, stone, steel and the heavywater facility is in the basement. Now said you could bomb that thing day and night and youre not going to touch that heavy water plant. And so the allies back off that plant and he says, what i think we should do is send no norewegians, no offense but they did not trust to do it properly. They just didnt have the xerpdz at that point, they thought to performed such an operation. So they decide something else. They decide to send two teams to go into this area, land by glider plane, they would release them over the drop site and float down and land in this Welcome Country side called the vita. [laughter] hes informing them that we should talk about this and, you know, this is a hard place to land and hard place to be. I will give you an idea of how lit it will british knew of this area. This operation was scheduled to happen in likely november of 1942 and theres the series of correspondence, legitimate correspondence of how to provide the royal engineers with bicycles. The idea that there would be bicycles on the glider plane, they would take them out and bite down to the plant in late november which is probably a pretty bad idea. Now, this operation was called operation freshman. It was called operation freshman because gliders had never been used by allies in combat operations before. Operation freshman. Now they did manage to have a fourman team led by, four man norwegian team, much like schin schineer lynn, select of the select were chosen to be part of the Norwegian Independent Company which was an soe run group of norwegians who they trained and commando training and then basically spy training. The operation was that they would land, landed in october 19, october 19th, 1942. They landed in the area. They skied, they had so much equipment that to go the number of miles they needed to go they would ski a distance of 6 or 7miles. To reach the landing site they were on the ground, they were preparing it, they were setting up what was called the rebecca beacon which was this long story short a device for the planes to be able to spot the landing site. Now, i dont want to forget the the royal engineers because they were very brave young men who were told very little of what they were getting into. They were told simply that this was an important operation, they were not told they were going norway but they were told it was important enough that it can decide the fate of the war. They were asked, who wants to participate, every man in the company stepped forward. Midnovember 1942 operation freshman tbins, this is the horse gliders that you see there. They called it the horse of glider, they nicknamed, being inside of it is like being a bronco, riding a roller coaster. It was made of wood, steel floor because there was so much vomit, they had harnesses and they were on a mission across the north sea, the furthest that any gliders had been and the idea was to land and then comens the operation. All the weather is clear, by the evening when these planes finally arrived in the dark the cloud cover had lowered, the wind had picked up and the cold had deepened and it was a very different place. The rope snaps, the first glider, glider a crashed into the mountainside, the second glider pair were not exactly sure what happened. They separated the crashed glider into the hillside. Those who were not killed on impact were captured by the germans, some of them were tortured, interrogated and then sadly killed. Beside the loss of life, the germans now know the allies are coming. If they suspected it before, they knew now. Natural force set on this very deep valley but now it became even more so. They doubled the security, they doubled the number of guards, they increased the mine fields, fortified the suspension bridge, any subsequent operation against would be what the germans thought impossible. Not within 24 hours of the catastrophe of operation freshman colonel wilson went to combine operations which was in charge of operation freshman and said, we would like to take over this mission. Let us do our job. And they in many ways sort of washed their hands with it. They said, please, it had been such a disaster. And so selects, decides, this is what we are going to do with wilson. We are going to send a sixman team, operation gunner side, this is five, i can count. [laughter] we will send a sixman team, they will drop into the area, into the vita, they will connect with operation grouse they will move toward the plant and destroy it. While operation freshman the idea was to hit the heavy water facility in the basement but eliminate other parts on the plant. This was destroying solely basementlevel heavy water plant. It was led by the young man there in the bottom, your right. Young man, no combat experience. His secondincommand was newt. His nickname was this tells you everything you need to know, his nickname was bonzo. He was actually born in brooklyn, returned to norway when he was a young child, he was a bit of a rascal. When the germans invaded, he found his way to england to be trained. The sixman team, although he didnt have combat experience he was all his all his reports and i again i have all of the report that is the british had during the training of these men, he was as they said a natural leader cunning. The men followed him without question. He became so good at these Training Operations that they were doing in scottland that he then became in charge of them and let the norwegians, many of them, older than he was in the missions. Operation is moving forward and training on the mock plant, theyre preparing sleeping bags and every guns and everything they need for this operation, very intensive preparations. Theres a number of reasons why things delayed for over the course of two months, mostly the weather. The weather over the north sea and in norway in december and january is not so nice. And so a dropping operation was delayed one after the next. They finally at one point are on a plane going there, theyre going across the norwegian coast and they are hit by antiaircraft artillary and the problem is that operation grouse is still there. This looks like a cozy place to spend your winter, isnt it . After freshman operation grouse has to escape. Theres a manhunt for anyone who is involved in helping the british so these gentlemen help into the vita a place it grows so close so fast that flames freeze in the fire. They go up to a cabin, oneroom cabin, these four men, they have very little food, they have very little assistance and now they need to survive the winter alone. They survive basically off of reindeer, they hunt reindeer and eat only dane deer, they would write about their favorite parts of the reindeer. Does anyone want to know the favorite part of a reindeer . Anybody . Yes. Do you know . No. [laughter] this may be a little gruesome but theres fat behind the ie lid thats quite delectible. A lot of things arent going well, this is another factor, they land and what the men call the worst blizzard they had ever seen hit, a blizzard so strong they were lifted off of their feet and thrown backwards by the gust of the wind. They waited out five days. They emerge in this landscape that looks as they said totally transformed by snow. They finally meet together, operation gunner and grouse, at some point in time they were saying in the cabin he was providing them batteries for their wireless transmissions, he was skiing constantly back and forth continuing to provide intelligence but he is not on this mission, hes too important much like the other Radio Operator to go on this, so its nine men that are going to participate in operation gunner, they meet and go to a cabin and decide how theyre going to hit the plant. Now the germans suspect that the attack is across the bridge, guarded, two gates f they managed to eliminate the guards, there most certainly be an alert so they discount that. Secondly, they can come down from the mountains that you see. You can see the pipelines actually where the water is coming down that feed it is hydroelectric plant. They can come down there. Theres actually a stairwell there. The problem is theres mine fields all over the place so they decided not to do that. Back in london was looking at aerial photographs and noted, theres this valley and some trees growing up that maybe you can go down the valley and climb up and make your way down the rail way line that hug it is edge of this cliff side and reach but the local boys, the operation grouse which were pretty much local boys said, no, i mean, these are boys whose parents would say, you know, 11 or 11 years old go out on the vita and have a threeday camping. But their parents told them never climb this cliff side. At one point a car crashes over in their youth and men have to repel down with ropes, thats how steep parts of it were. Maybe you should do this. I think thats a great ideas. Bonzo will go for it. Runningberg is not sure. But they had the idea, they go out and climb out and go down the rail line, this would be the only way they could get in without alerting anybody. He takes a boat and wants the men to have to participate in the decision to be bought in the decision and vote to climb and on night february 27th, 1928, they ski down from their cabinet and take off their skis at some point because its too steep, they almost get mowed over by a bus of german soldiers, they reached down into the valley and now theyre at the base of this 500foot cliff that they need to climb. It looked like being on the street and looking up at a sky scraper and thats what he need today needed to climb and they do it and manage to scale, scramble up this cliff side and reach the railway line. Very well. And they set the the explosives perfectly. Theres an explosion, theyre running out, theyre throwing themselves down this cliffside, and theyre on the run. Now, in some of these presentations, i like to say thats half the book. Thats half the story. There is much more, and it literally is the Halfway Point of the book. Because what they did not expect is that the germans needed this heavy water so badly that although they destroyed the supply, they destroyed the machinery, within a span of roughly five months, they reconstituted the plant be, it was producing heavy water again, and there were two hydroelectric facilities that now two Hydrogen Facilities that now were being converted to produce heavy water as well. But i will leave you to read the book to figure that out. But what i to want to sort of end with are some themes that come out of this story that i think are important to highlight. The first as i mentioned was toughness, how tough they were. And ill give you one example. Klaus hellberg. Klaus, who was part of operation grouse, after the gunner side operation, there was an even more massive manhunt. Now heinrich, the head of the ss in norway, is so upset at this that he decides to send an army into the vita. Many of them not perfectly good skiers, but some of them good ones. Klaus waits this out in oslo. A friend writes him saying its over, youre safe to return. He was wrong. Klaus had his Cross Country skis off, he was wawrminging himself in the warming himself in the cabin when he sees three german skiers coming towards him. To reach this cabin, youd already skied roughly 25 miles. Seems like a Long Distance to me. And he sees them, and he throws on his Cross Country skis, and hes off. And hes thinking pretty good about himself because, you know, this is his terrain, and hes an expert Cross Country skier, but theres one austrian skier whos holding on tight. And they ski for hours. Tough. And what hellberg notices is when he goes uphill, he gains distance. When he goes downhill, the austrian closes the gap. So klaus decides hes going to climb every little bump he can find to get away. And be this goes on and on and this goes on and on, and the austrian wont give up. Finally, klaus stops, turns, levels his gun and waits for the german to shoot. His theory is that the setting sun is in his eyes, this austrian is tired, hes nervous and hes not going to have very good aim, and klaus is tired of skiing. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, the german misses. Klaus levels one shot, shoots, wounds the austrian falls over his skis, and klaus is off now quickly, needing to ski because he knows more men are coming. Continuing to ski. Klaus skis off a cliff in the middle of the night 50 feet, 60 feet, he thought. Lands, breaks his arm, dislocates his shoulder. Gets up, skis another far distance into the morning, one pole, to a village. I will leave out the story where he lands himself into a hotel that the gestapo takes over that evening. [laughter] the second thing i would raise as a theme is sacrifice, how much these men sacrificed for the war, for what they were doing. Shinedderlin, for one, his two brothers were taken by the gestapo, imprisoned for almost a year. His best friend was seized, interrogated, tortured over the span of two months trying to find out information. But the person ill bring out here is mostly [inaudible] after this operation he decides hes going to stay in norway, hes going to build resistant cells which was essential because of the fact there would need to be another last minute sabotage, the sinking of the hedro ferry carrying the heavy water away. But at one point, hes in oslo collecting forged documents for his budding resistance circle, and he had been living underground now since the invasion of norway. So now going on over three years. Had not seen his wife, had not seen his parents, had not seen his sister, any family because its a bad idea. And hes in this apartment, theres a knock on the door, and someone comes in, and he hears his fathers voice. And theres nothing that he wants to do more than push open that door, embrace his father, see him, but he cant. It was the last time he would have a chance to see his father. His father was taken by the gestapo soon afterwards, imprisoned, and by the time he left prison he was broken and died soon after. Sacrifice. Halculid wrote in his memoir, he wrote a dedication to his father in his memoir. And it read he died not knowing why. The last thing i would say is the theme of teamwork. Again, much like that story about jumping through that hole which wasnt really the case, you hear and read and see movies about story, and these gentlemen dont have doubts. Theyre gung ho the whole way through. Thats not the case. Paulson recounts a as the head of operation grouse after being in this cab begin in the vita more over two months again, remember, this is now winter in norway. Its probably light only a few hours away. Its very cold. Theyre survive aring off only reindeer. Theyre in this cabin, they dont have any electricity, its dark, and theyre going slightly mad in some ways. And paulson writes of losing hope, of wondering when hes ever going to get there, is any of this worth it . Why are we putting up with this . Why cant we just go ski down to where our families are . An experience in real life, those dreams they were having of platters of food being brought to them, to the table. And paulson knew if he didnt do something about it, if he didnt make a change, they were not going to make it through that winter. And the fact is that they did not make it through, if operation grouse did not survive, gunner side never would have happened. So theres this wonderful scene where these four men begin telling each other stories to entertain each other, to keep the time going, to sort of build this teamwork, that they were in this together. And klaus recounts telling terrible poetry. Apparently, he was a terrible poet. And paulson, who was a really good hunter, had a family, and on his family wall, they had the ten rules of hunting. These four guys knew those well by the end of the winter. One was a plumber. He dissected plumbing for these guys. By the end of the war, they could fix any toilet, any place with a plumbing problem. But as much as its kind of funny, it brings to sort of light this idea of teamwork, of how important it was. Its what sustained these guys. It both sustained grouse, and it sustained gunner side over critical moments. Ill conclude with two short things. One, theres a lot of at least historically was vermuck important, was this operation important. We know in june of 1942 the germans decided in a meeting that they are not going to move forward with the manhattan project. And is so all the money and all the resources that the americans threw at this problem the germans are not going to do that. And so many say that, yes, this mission was brave because these gentlemen didnt know, didnt know the allies, what the germans were doing, and that is definitely the case. But what we do also know is at this june meeting they decide we will continue with Atomic Research and they are told if you manage to produce a selfsustaining reactor, we will shower you with resources. Its part of the reason that the germans never attained the heavy reactor and never moved forward with a bomb program. Deebner himself cents the sabotage credits the sabotage for stopping the pom the bomb program. My opinion, it was part of the reason. Ill conclude with [inaudible] who finally got his wish to fight not just in london, but to go into his country and lead a small army in the resistance to repel the germans out. He was killed early 1945 by a collaborator. He never got to see the freedom of norway. But i want to bring back the reason these guys were fighting again. Because as much, again, as it was about atomic physics and about stopping hitlers bomb, they were doing it for their towns and their villages. And one man wrote a letter to his life that was kept in his safe in london that he gave his secretary a key and said in the event of my death, i want you to give this to my life. And his son gave me this letter, read it to me. It was in norwegian. I cannot speak or norwegian, but he read it and translated it for me, and i promised him i would read it and talk about it when i gave these talks. Dearest bassa, i have the honor to lead an important expedition home which will be of great importance to norways future. It is in line with the course i chose on april 9, 1940, to put all my effort and ability toward our countrys welfare. The war is singing its last verse it and requires every effort from all who would call themselves men. You will understand that, wont you . We have had so many magical, happy years, and my highest wish is to continue that happy life together. But should the almighty have another course for me, know that my last thought was of you. Time is short, but if all will not go well, dont feel sorry more me. I am completely for me. I am completely happy and thankful for what i have had in life even though i very much would like to live to help norway back to its feet. I wish the best more our son in life. I look forward to seeing them all again, and then the letter was signed your beloved. Thank you very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] ill try that one. All right. Be so weve got time for a few questions. If anybody has questions for be neal, im sure there must be one or two out there. All right. While youre pondering your questions, im going to assert my prerogative to is can the to ask the first one. [laughter] so these norwegian commandos were human, not supermen, but pretty remarkable individuals who kid something amazing. After the war did they go and become plumbers again . I imagine men who are capable of doing sort of thing and then who do it, you know, i imagine them going into the military or becoming war correspondents or, you know, Something Like that. Do you know anything about their sort of postwar lives . Sure. Some of them continued in the military. Paulson did, halculid did. Hellberg was, for many seasons, a tour guide in the vita. They all took sort of different courses. But what i would say about their postwar lives are two things. One, these episodes and this life that they lived there sort of imprinted itself on them. Sometimes in haunting ways. Shinerlins daughter told me you would never approach him from behind because he was always he had lived underground, he had lived in a cabin where at any moment the germans could come, and he never lost that. Some of them went to sort of heal their wounds by going into the woods for weekes at a time weeks at a time. I think in some ways the most extraordinary story, he himself felt wounded psychologically after all this time. And he decided to join the he lived quite a life. He joined the can tick key expedition. He was the Radio Operator. So he, you know, lived another extraordinary life, and i think they all did in their own ways. The other thing i would say is they were very tight knit, most of them, over the course of the rest of their lives. Many of them gathered every year at a hunting cabin in the south and talked war stories, but also i think in some ways nobody else understood them. Gentleman right here in the front row. If youll hold on one second, weve got a microphone coming for cspan. Thank you so much for your presentation. I happened to serve in the American Embassy in oslo and recall visiting the underground museum. I recall there was a mention of this episode, the bombing of the heavy water facility. And this museum documented the first act of resistance which was the sinking of [inaudible] which sunk 1500 the germans, when they entered on april 9, 1940, were not able to catch, didnt have enough force to capture the city. Enabled them to escape, so that underground museum was a major source of information about the resistance to the nazi occupation. No, i absolutely agree with you. I mean, the more wee january Norwegian Resistance Museum was an absolute resource for me. Their around their archives are tremendous. I think also postwar to a man these individuals said their most important job was not vermuck, it was other operations they were on. There were quite a number of norwegian independents, many of hem lost their lives. They many of them lost their lives. They participated in scores of operations, and if you read some diaries, vermuck is definitely in there. Every month or so theres a little mention of it. But theres the litany of operations. Many of them were named after birds. So its, you know, its very its fascinating. The young gentleman in the third row in from the aisle wait, weve got two. All right, well take both of them. They both had their hands up. Yeah. Go ahead. Whats a mine field . And if we want to get the one from here as well. If the germans kept making the heavy water, why didnt they continue with the bomb program . So the minefield, first of all, a minefield is basically the germans and other countries, they put these explosion explosives underneath the ground, okay . And they have a setting that can explode them. And many of them, most of them were taken away after the war, or pretty much all of them in the vermuck area, so theyre totally safe now. The question about like, how does it react . Like, explode . How does it explode. In many circumstances its the weight. So lets say you, lets say an animal is going through a minefield. If a hoof stepped on it, that weight would trigger it to go off. The question of what did they continue to do because the germans reconstituted the plant, the allies in some ways got their way. There was a major Bombing Mission with hundreds of b17 and b24 bombers, exactly what was predicted would happen. The plant was not touched. A number of civilians were killed. But the consequence of that, although the heavy water facility was not stopped, the germans decided at that point, i read a report that one german official sent from rucon to berlin saying the norwegians have made a national sport, quoteunquote, of sabotaging ver murks vermuck. We need to move it. So you find that in february of 1944 they, in fact, begin to dissemble the plant, begin to bring all the heavy water into barrels. And as i mentioned very briefly, that sents the stage for the last minute sabotage that halcu lyrics d halculid performed to wednesday once and for to end once and for all. Other questions . I have one well come back to you if we get a chance. Was there any connection or contact between these people and their efforts and moburg, the american baseball player who was supposed to survey . So i love the story of the baseball player turned spy. Theres a wonderful book called the catcher is a spy. Who was a spy, yeah. And his mission, its one of reasons i turned on to this topic, because i found that so fascinating, that moe would go to germany. And the plan was if it was clear that horizonberg was participating, to potentially kill him. But he had no contact at all. This was the american oss handling these operations, and there was a clear demarcation between the soe and the oss in terms of norway in these operations. Other questions. All right. Well take one more here, and well call it an evening. Go ahead. What does heavy water look like . Ooh, good question. [laughter] thats a fantastic question. It looks exactly like regular water. You cant tell the difference. It looks just like this. In fact, one could argue theres heavy water in a small quantity in here. But it looks the same, and some say it tastes the same, but i dont suggest drinking it. It does, scientists have shown sort of if you create it in large quantities, change some biological processes, which is one of reasons they built the plant. Its because they thought one of the heads thought that heavy water would cure cancer. It is not proven to do that. But it looks just the same. Be. Well, on that note, let me just mention for those of you who didnt see it when you came in, i believe we have back there, downstairs yes. Laura, the nice young lady waving her hand, has a vial which you can look at. Nearby is also some drinks and refreshments which as far as i know do not contain heavy water [laughter] but for which we can thank the Norwegian Embassy. Thank you very much. So i hope you will join us at the reception, and lets please [inaudible] and the book signing, thank you. You can get your book signed down there, you can have a drink, you can chat with neal, chat with our friends from the Norwegian Embassy. Thank you for coming and have a great evening. Thank you, everyone. [applause] [inaudible conversations] booktv recently visited capitol hill to ask members of congress what theyre reading this summer. Well, as i mentioned to you before, i usually keep a book on my night stand in indiana. I travel back and forth to washington every week, and sometimes more than once a week. I keep a book on my night stand here in our place in washington. So before i go to bed, i try to get some good reading in. And then i have my on the plane book which i read going back and forth. So not surprisingly, the two books that im reading here in indiana, ive just finished incidentally, jack kemps book, bleeding heart conservative. I was a very close friend of jack kemp, colleague of jack kemp. Coats family and the kemp family had a very good personal relationship. So its interesting to go back and read some of that history. Also the latest book here on politics which fits for washington is Mitch Mcconnells book, the long road, what is it . The long game. Yeah. Anyway, i thought since hes my boss and he gave me a free book, i ought to read it. [laughter] since i see him every day, i say, hey, i just read chapter seven, i didnt know this about you, etc. , etc. Then my book on the plane is a new book about churchill that was run by the former mayor of london, boris johnson. Im a Big Churchill fan. Ive read every book i can get on churchill, but this one is from a different perspective. I really recommend it to people because its a totally different hook at churchill and different perspective. So im enjoying that. Im right in the middle of that now. And then my book at home, i always are to be reading a spy book. Im on the intelligence committee. Love spy books, so theres a book called tight rope, its about a world war ii spy that was airdropped into france to report on the germans and so forth. An absorbing novel. Those four, stacking up ideas for the break in august that hopefully i will have more time reading. He booktv wants to know what you are reading, tweet of that booktv or facebook. Com booktv. Del wilber is next on booktv. He discusses his book a good for murder the inside story of a homicide squad which looks at the inner workings of a homicide squad in maryland in prince georges county. [ inaudible conversations] all right. You guys ready for me to start . I
comparemela.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.