Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On The New Digital Ag

As a child to find out the truth and we wrap up tonights prime time programming at 11 p. M. Eastern. Iraq war veteran phil clay discusses his collection of short stories about soldiers experiences at war and back home. That all happens next on cspan2s booktv. Booktv continues with eric schmidt and jared cohen. The two talk about the updated edition of their book, the new digital age, in which they discuss nsa spying and current state of internet security. This is about an hour and ten minutes. [applause] thank you. Well, it is really exciting to be back at the Computer History Museum with my good friend, mentor, colleague, eric. Schmidt and my friend, jared. Last time we were here we were talking about lean in, and today we are talking about the new digital age and future of the world. I mean youve really done this job on google now because i keep running into lean in. Its like you still work there. [laughter] were excited. But its a real treat for me. Eric, i owe my career to eric. Eric was the first person who hired me in Silicon Valley, and its worked out well for you. [laughter] youve done so much better since you left google. Well [laughter] well, i, i feel lucky because we talk about this a lot. Everyone needs to mentor and sponsors in your life, and eric has been that and continues to be that for me, and im so grateful. And i first met jared when i first came to facebook, and he is friends with our head of product, chris cox. And chris said theres this one guy in the department, and he totally gets it. And he runs around the world trying to get other people to get it. So he has been a voice that has been super important to our industry and technology, and i think to peace all over. So excited to be here with both of you. So lets start at the beginning. Youre both fairly busy dudes, right . I mean, job, job, and its not even that obvious that youd even know each other that well. How did you meet, and what would possess you to sit down and write this . Where does this [inaudible] [laughter] well, you know, my friend don wanted to visit his son who was fighting in iraq, and so i went along. I figured, you know, thanksgiving in iraq with the troops would be sort of interesting. And so we, we show up in baghdad. I think we were the first people to show up on a commercial flight. Sort of got lost in the airport with the marines on the other side. Did they know what to do with you . No. [laughter] no . All right. So jared, i meet jared, and i because it was such an interesting visit, my daughter sophie was with us, and is we took videos. And i remember playing the videos when i got home. And all i heard was jareds voice. Talk, talk, talk, talk. [laughter] did he talk the most or just had the best things to say . No, he just talked the most. [laughter] what i remember about eric, we get to the airport, and normally when you arrive and you dont see the guards, youre eager to get out of there. In erics case, they put this flak jacket on him, and theyre ready to go. Before he will leave the airport to go to the green zone, he insists on asking the security detail to give him an indepth history of flak jackets. The its not because hes worried about security, its because hes a geeky scientist and really wants to understand the history of flak jackets. Why is this velcro here, at what stage in its history why doesnt it protect certain parts of me . [laughter] was there an answer to that . [laughter] not one the marines were willing to reveal. [laughter] so the lesson of this experience is, you know, when you travel in a war zone with somebody, you become very close with them. And since then weve traveled to somewhere between 40 and 45 countries together, and when we first began this journey, we had an argument about stability versus instability. Eric wanted stability, nice hotels, kind of oh, stop. Look [laughter] the basic problem here is that jared does not like to go to normal places. [laughter] right . So he has never been to south korea, and he wants to go to north korea. And theres one, theres only one place i couldnt convince eric to come to with me which was somalia. And its probably better theres no hotels at all. [laughter] or government or banks or institutions, yes, that is true. Im still not going. [laughter] its actually the one place that i dont think im going to go back. Shocking. [laughter] we go to south sudan, we somehow convinced him to go to south sudan, the worlds newest country. So we get there, and 98 of south sudans revenue comes from oil, and the government in khartoum has basically cut off the pipeline. And so they basically have no money, no roads, no police force, nothing. And so they have the leadership has an hour with the two of us, and what do they choose to do . Spend their entire time handing us their Android Devices asking us if we can debug for them. [laughter] priorities. By the way, one of those guys is the rebel president now. Its unclear whether hes still involved in governing. [laughter] he seems to have left. Welcome to so youre watching the video, and youre listening to jareds voice, and this makes you want to write a book. No, i so i eventually talked to jared, you know . And we met in new york, and i said what do you want to do . He said i wanted to write a book. He started talking about his ideas, and that sounded pretty interesting to me. Because it turns out that the Foreign Policy people sort of dont understand technology, and the Technology People dont really understand Foreign Policy, and i certainly dont understand Foreign Policy. So in wandering around, youd be shocked at how miserable most peoples lives are like. Right. We take our, the Wonderful World around us for granted. Were very fortunate here. Maybe we could fix some of these problems. If we work together. So the book starts out with two really bold sentences, and im going to ask each one of you about one. Eric, this was a hard one for me to read. You write the book, and it says the internet is among the few things human beings have built that they dont truly understand. I know i dont understand the internet, i but i felt very certain you did. [laughter] and to be honest, if you dont understand the internet, im pretty sure really no one does. The Computer History Museum, thats a little concerning. But, eric, what do you mean by we dont understand that its built by humans, but we dont understand . My career has been for the 35 years within a half a mile of our physical location right now. And i am constantly surprised. I think i kind of understand it, and its something wild and wacky comes up. I remember in 1993 sitting in my office a half a mile from here and thinking things are really boring, and i kind of understand it all, and that was the month i saw netscape. It was a browser at the time. People are enormously creative. Theyre enormously surprising. They are not utilitarian and follow the rules and so forth and so on. And the internet is the first time when we can hear all of them at once. And i think that for the next 10 or 20 years were going to see more surprises, more good surprises and more bad surprises. Right . And all of us here in this room, we live with this. Oh, my god. Whats app for 16 million. Just as an example. [laughter] not relevant, its not relevant to todays discussion. Jared . Sorry, sheryl. That was a little low blow. Jared, this is amazing. The internet is the largest experiment involving anarchy in history. You are a student and a scholar and a practitioner of what is Civil Society and what is democracy and state. Why is this anarchy . So if you think about the definition of anarchy in the context of international relations, it was coined in the early 20th century around the idea that even though every piece of territory on earth is or will be carved up into some kind of sovereign territory, the world is not governable in the sense theres no central leadership. And if you fast forward, every attempt that the world has made to try to create a Global Leadership body, basically been rendered ineffective which is one of the chj are challenges the challenges of international institutions. Then you look at the internet with only 2. 4 billion people online today, another 5 billion people coming online, think about the trouble that states are already having in dealing with this mass migration to the online world. You add another 5 Million People, and the prospect of, one, replicating the law obviously the physical world in cyberspace seem difficult and, two, controlling the entire thing is far more difficult than controlling the physical we cant even agree on some basic rules between countries, so now weve got to issue with globalization of issues of copyright, issues of censorship, issues of free speech, issues of morality and communications. What do we do when something bad is happening . And i think the other thing is and since we have been on a book tour for a while, weve been talking about this, maybe there are limits to what the internet can do. Maybe there are some problems at the Computer History Museum, youre willing to say such a bold statement . We might discuss that. There might be limits. Also we describe the internet in book as the Worlds Largest ungoverned state, and you think about the instruments of state power, military, economic power, etc. , they dont really work in on line world, say, as effectively as no, but talk about westphalia. So the treaty of westphalia which basically established the International System of sovereign states, you know, is based on an idea that you can, you know, have different legal jurisdictions that are guarded by physical boundaries. All of that begins to break down as these worlds come online. Whats interesting is what it does to disrupt the balance of power in the world. So one of the arguments we make in the book is that, you know, states will have, you know, their physical power which is based on traditional instruments that we discussed before, but a state may be more, may be a cyber power in on line world when, in fact, its very physically weak. So if you look at estonia and sweden, they can punch way above their weight if a world thats completely connected. After a couple of years learning about Foreign Policy mostly because jared talks a lot [laughter] and i sort of concluded that Foreign Policy has not changed in a long time, right . Its sort of these realists and progressives and so forth, and he explained all this to me. I thought in technology whats new, right, what is, in fact, new is the empowerment that smartphones and the internet are providing the citizens. That is, in fact, a new thing. The other thing thats new is data permanence, so the ability information essentially leaked or published is generally known and cant be put back in the box. We didnt have those opportunities or problems before. So that drives lots of issues in, essentially, a static world of Foreign Policy. So, again, you said a very bold thing here which is the internet cant fix everything. What are those things when you think about it . What are those things . Because as technologists, you and i, many people in this audience, we are big believers in the power of what technology can do, of brings it to more people. Your book focuses on what happens when another five billion people come online. I know googles very focused on that, facebooks very focused, many people in our audience. But thinking about the limitations is very interesting and not something Silicon Valley often does. What are those limitations . Well, its always a shock to technologists that there are some limits to our omnipotence. If only we could automate very old. Silicon valley. Anticipator. That was a joke, by the way, please dont tweet that. I get in trouble, were just like friends here. [laughter] so where are the boundaries . When does the internet stop and just real bad stuff happens . And i think the answer is when youve got a civil war like in syria or possibly whats going on in ukraine and crimea which jared can really talk about. Hes quite an expert there. And theres so its clear to me, and i want to go back to sort of a technology optimist ice view of this optimists view of this. We can fix entertainment and access to information and entertainment, we can fix the empowerment of women, women are treated very poorly in much of the world, we can fix corruption and so forth. But there is a threshold, it seems to me. Weve been having this debate of, jared, how would you fix syria . Well, and to erics point, i think syria and ukraine offer two really compelling examples of a bug that exists in our technooptimism. If you look at syria, you have 150,000 people who have been killed, millions of refugees, chemical weapons used on at least three different occasions that we know of, and yet theres no shortage of videos coming out of syria. Each one of those videos is more horrific than the one that came before it. The government is setting up checkpoints to look at peoples phones and see what exists on their various profiles. No, no, talk about this. Jared was just in syria. So another place im not going. So i thought, you actually shouldnt go to syria for a variety of reasons. [laughter] thank you. But i saw friends of mine that i hadnt seen in nine years, and to provide some context, they told me a story about how theyre minding their own business one afternoon, and all of a sudden their throats start to itch, their eyes start to water, they get dizzy, and they collapse. Fortunately, somebody came in from the other room to close the window. Apparently, the chemical weapons had come in and affected them, and it took them a full month and a half to find out what had happened because of the information blackout. So they then go on to tell me a story about how in damascus and homs and some of the big cities the government has set up these checkpoints where they ask you for your phone, and then they hold a gun to your head and ask for your login information. And if they dont like what they see, they signal up to somebody on top of a building and order them to shoot. My friends brother was shot in the head because of something they found on his phone. And what youre left with is a realization that what syria needs, obviously, is a physical humanitarian intervention, but it also needs a cyber humanitarian intervention in the sense that we expect to be aware of these things, but the everyday syrian who now has a phone and spends all day online trying to find out whats going on, tear just caught in the cross theyre just caught in the crossfire. And thats the largest number of people many this horrific tragedy that dont understand awe they wantification, that dont understand why they should use the chrome browser, that dont understand all these different things, and theres a real question that we as technologist who are gee politically aware need to address which is how do we make sure that the average citizen is secure online even if theyre not physically secure . So in the book we use the example of somalia, and we say imagine for purposes of discussion somalia [inaudible] the government is better now, but imagine no government at all for a while. And, but imagine the Telecommunications Industry which is roughly 11 of the gdp and is the only legitimate, profitable business in somalia, and everyone has smartphones. But theres nothing else. So the smartphone at that point becomes each more important. It becomes how you know where your friends are. Its how you get an alert that the other gang is around the corner. Its safe routes. We heard a story when we were in libya of schoolgirls that use google maps to watch where the nato bombing was so they could get themselves to school safely. So think about the importance of a smartphone. Now, imagine that youre wandering along in somalia, and your smartphone is taken by somebody. And now theyve got your contact list, your friends, they can impersonate you and so forth. These are very weighty issues. It is interesting, to your point, i think when you think back at the atrocities committed during war in history, there was a sense of people didnt know. People didnt know. Had we known, we would have intervened. And i think the striking thing about syria is we know. But if i could just ask you, sheryl, when you were at google, one of the many Amazing Things she did at google, she had the fill an droppic and the social consciousness that others didnt at the company and spent a lot of time talking about development, development world, growth rate. Basically, the problems of a third world. So it seems to me that since you started that, things have gotten better because theyve gotten connected. But the other issues havent gotten fixed. Right. No, and that is a striking thing. And its to your point that the internet cant fix everything. So lets talk a little bit about the military. This is a big honor, but general ann dun warty is with us today. Its an honor to have her, first fourstar general. [applause] and becoming a dear friend of mine, which is exciting. Lets talk about how this affects the military. So you show up in baghdad. They did give you a flak jacket, but it wasnt sufficient. Ann will come back one other day and explain to us why the flak jackets are made the way they are, but how does this affect the military . Well, my Immediate Reaction was were still fighting the wars the old way rather than the new way. So all of our interventions seem to basically involve trying to deal with the citizens. Whats the best thing that you can do for the citizens . Empower them. Whats the best thing the military can do . Build them wifi towers and a reasonably protected fiber optic network, right . So that they can actually learn whats going on, empower themselves, figure out if the previous dictator was lying to them, right . Get all the facts, right . And then develop whatever kind of society that theyre going to develop along with economy and so forth. This is the last thing the military does, not the first thing. So one simple answer would be that since almost all of our fighting ultimately seems to involve civilians that can then be turned against us by evil people and so forth, jared talks a lot about how the internet can change the perception of people. You know, they have theyre in a religious school. This is the only way, this is the only way. Theres no doubt, right . So one of the things that the internet can do is it can empower individuals. The natural strengths of the society can come out. Why dont we build those Computer History Museum<\/a> with my good friend, mentor, colleague, eric. Schmidt and my friend, jared. Last time we were here we were talking about lean in, and today we are talking about the new digital age and future of the world. I mean youve really done this job on google now because i keep running into lean in. Its like you still work there. [laughter] were excited. But its a real treat for me. Eric, i owe my career to eric. Eric was the first person who hired me in Silicon Valley<\/a>, and its worked out well for you. [laughter] youve done so much better since you left google. Well [laughter] well, i, i feel lucky because we talk about this a lot. Everyone needs to mentor and sponsors in your life, and eric has been that and continues to be that for me, and im so grateful. And i first met jared when i first came to facebook, and he is friends with our head of product, chris cox. And chris said theres this one guy in the department, and he totally gets it. And he runs around the world trying to get other people to get it. So he has been a voice that has been super important to our industry and technology, and i think to peace all over. So excited to be here with both of you. So lets start at the beginning. Youre both fairly busy dudes, right . I mean, job, job, and its not even that obvious that youd even know each other that well. How did you meet, and what would possess you to sit down and write this . Where does this [inaudible] [laughter] well, you know, my friend don wanted to visit his son who was fighting in iraq, and so i went along. I figured, you know, thanksgiving in iraq with the troops would be sort of interesting. And so we, we show up in baghdad. I think we were the first people to show up on a commercial flight. Sort of got lost in the airport with the marines on the other side. Did they know what to do with you . No. [laughter] no . All right. So jared, i meet jared, and i because it was such an interesting visit, my daughter sophie was with us, and is we took videos. And i remember playing the videos when i got home. And all i heard was jareds voice. Talk, talk, talk, talk. [laughter] did he talk the most or just had the best things to say . No, he just talked the most. [laughter] what i remember about eric, we get to the airport, and normally when you arrive and you dont see the guards, youre eager to get out of there. In erics case, they put this flak jacket on him, and theyre ready to go. Before he will leave the airport to go to the green zone, he insists on asking the security detail to give him an indepth history of flak jackets. The its not because hes worried about security, its because hes a geeky scientist and really wants to understand the history of flak jackets. Why is this velcro here, at what stage in its history why doesnt it protect certain parts of me . [laughter] was there an answer to that . [laughter] not one the marines were willing to reveal. [laughter] so the lesson of this experience is, you know, when you travel in a war zone with somebody, you become very close with them. And since then weve traveled to somewhere between 40 and 45 countries together, and when we first began this journey, we had an argument about stability versus instability. Eric wanted stability, nice hotels, kind of oh, stop. Look [laughter] the basic problem here is that jared does not like to go to normal places. [laughter] right . So he has never been to south korea, and he wants to go to north korea. And theres one, theres only one place i couldnt convince eric to come to with me which was somalia. And its probably better theres no hotels at all. [laughter] or government or banks or institutions, yes, that is true. Im still not going. [laughter] its actually the one place that i dont think im going to go back. Shocking. [laughter] we go to south sudan, we somehow convinced him to go to south sudan, the worlds newest country. So we get there, and 98 of south sudans revenue comes from oil, and the government in khartoum has basically cut off the pipeline. And so they basically have no money, no roads, no police force, nothing. And so they have the leadership has an hour with the two of us, and what do they choose to do . Spend their entire time handing us their Android Devices<\/a> asking us if we can debug for them. [laughter] priorities. By the way, one of those guys is the rebel president now. Its unclear whether hes still involved in governing. [laughter] he seems to have left. Welcome to so youre watching the video, and youre listening to jareds voice, and this makes you want to write a book. No, i so i eventually talked to jared, you know . And we met in new york, and i said what do you want to do . He said i wanted to write a book. He started talking about his ideas, and that sounded pretty interesting to me. Because it turns out that the Foreign Policy<\/a> people sort of dont understand technology, and the Technology People<\/a> dont really understand Foreign Policy<\/a>, and i certainly dont understand Foreign Policy<\/a>. So in wandering around, youd be shocked at how miserable most peoples lives are like. Right. We take our, the Wonderful World<\/a> around us for granted. Were very fortunate here. Maybe we could fix some of these problems. If we work together. So the book starts out with two really bold sentences, and im going to ask each one of you about one. Eric, this was a hard one for me to read. You write the book, and it says the internet is among the few things human beings have built that they dont truly understand. I know i dont understand the internet, i but i felt very certain you did. [laughter] and to be honest, if you dont understand the internet, im pretty sure really no one does. The Computer History Museum<\/a>, thats a little concerning. But, eric, what do you mean by we dont understand that its built by humans, but we dont understand . My career has been for the 35 years within a half a mile of our physical location right now. And i am constantly surprised. I think i kind of understand it, and its something wild and wacky comes up. I remember in 1993 sitting in my office a half a mile from here and thinking things are really boring, and i kind of understand it all, and that was the month i saw netscape. It was a browser at the time. People are enormously creative. Theyre enormously surprising. They are not utilitarian and follow the rules and so forth and so on. And the internet is the first time when we can hear all of them at once. And i think that for the next 10 or 20 years were going to see more surprises, more good surprises and more bad surprises. Right . And all of us here in this room, we live with this. Oh, my god. Whats app for 16 million. Just as an example. [laughter] not relevant, its not relevant to todays discussion. Jared . Sorry, sheryl. That was a little low blow. Jared, this is amazing. The internet is the largest experiment involving anarchy in history. You are a student and a scholar and a practitioner of what is Civil Society<\/a> and what is democracy and state. Why is this anarchy . So if you think about the definition of anarchy in the context of international relations, it was coined in the early 20th century around the idea that even though every piece of territory on earth is or will be carved up into some kind of sovereign territory, the world is not governable in the sense theres no central leadership. And if you fast forward, every attempt that the world has made to try to create a Global Leadership<\/a> body, basically been rendered ineffective which is one of the chj are challenges the challenges of international institutions. Then you look at the internet with only 2. 4 billion people online today, another 5 billion people coming online, think about the trouble that states are already having in dealing with this mass migration to the online world. You add another 5 Million People<\/a>, and the prospect of, one, replicating the law obviously the physical world in cyberspace seem difficult and, two, controlling the entire thing is far more difficult than controlling the physical we cant even agree on some basic rules between countries, so now weve got to issue with globalization of issues of copyright, issues of censorship, issues of free speech, issues of morality and communications. What do we do when something bad is happening . And i think the other thing is and since we have been on a book tour for a while, weve been talking about this, maybe there are limits to what the internet can do. Maybe there are some problems at the Computer History Museum<\/a>, youre willing to say such a bold statement . We might discuss that. There might be limits. Also we describe the internet in book as the Worlds Largest<\/a> ungoverned state, and you think about the instruments of state power, military, economic power, etc. , they dont really work in on line world, say, as effectively as no, but talk about westphalia. So the treaty of westphalia which basically established the International System<\/a> of sovereign states, you know, is based on an idea that you can, you know, have different legal jurisdictions that are guarded by physical boundaries. All of that begins to break down as these worlds come online. Whats interesting is what it does to disrupt the balance of power in the world. So one of the arguments we make in the book is that, you know, states will have, you know, their physical power which is based on traditional instruments that we discussed before, but a state may be more, may be a cyber power in on line world when, in fact, its very physically weak. So if you look at estonia and sweden, they can punch way above their weight if a world thats completely connected. After a couple of years learning about Foreign Policy<\/a> mostly because jared talks a lot [laughter] and i sort of concluded that Foreign Policy<\/a> has not changed in a long time, right . Its sort of these realists and progressives and so forth, and he explained all this to me. I thought in technology whats new, right, what is, in fact, new is the empowerment that smartphones and the internet are providing the citizens. That is, in fact, a new thing. The other thing thats new is data permanence, so the ability information essentially leaked or published is generally known and cant be put back in the box. We didnt have those opportunities or problems before. So that drives lots of issues in, essentially, a static world of Foreign Policy<\/a>. So, again, you said a very bold thing here which is the internet cant fix everything. What are those things when you think about it . What are those things . Because as technologists, you and i, many people in this audience, we are big believers in the power of what technology can do, of brings it to more people. Your book focuses on what happens when another five billion people come online. I know googles very focused on that, facebooks very focused, many people in our audience. But thinking about the limitations is very interesting and not something Silicon Valley<\/a> often does. What are those limitations . Well, its always a shock to technologists that there are some limits to our omnipotence. If only we could automate very old. Silicon valley. Anticipator. That was a joke, by the way, please dont tweet that. I get in trouble, were just like friends here. [laughter] so where are the boundaries . When does the internet stop and just real bad stuff happens . And i think the answer is when youve got a civil war like in syria or possibly whats going on in ukraine and crimea which jared can really talk about. Hes quite an expert there. And theres so its clear to me, and i want to go back to sort of a technology optimist ice view of this optimists view of this. We can fix entertainment and access to information and entertainment, we can fix the empowerment of women, women are treated very poorly in much of the world, we can fix corruption and so forth. But there is a threshold, it seems to me. Weve been having this debate of, jared, how would you fix syria . Well, and to erics point, i think syria and ukraine offer two really compelling examples of a bug that exists in our technooptimism. If you look at syria, you have 150,000 people who have been killed, millions of refugees, chemical weapons used on at least three different occasions that we know of, and yet theres no shortage of videos coming out of syria. Each one of those videos is more horrific than the one that came before it. The government is setting up checkpoints to look at peoples phones and see what exists on their various profiles. No, no, talk about this. Jared was just in syria. So another place im not going. So i thought, you actually shouldnt go to syria for a variety of reasons. [laughter] thank you. But i saw friends of mine that i hadnt seen in nine years, and to provide some context, they told me a story about how theyre minding their own business one afternoon, and all of a sudden their throats start to itch, their eyes start to water, they get dizzy, and they collapse. Fortunately, somebody came in from the other room to close the window. Apparently, the chemical weapons had come in and affected them, and it took them a full month and a half to find out what had happened because of the information blackout. So they then go on to tell me a story about how in damascus and homs and some of the big cities the government has set up these checkpoints where they ask you for your phone, and then they hold a gun to your head and ask for your login information. And if they dont like what they see, they signal up to somebody on top of a building and order them to shoot. My friends brother was shot in the head because of something they found on his phone. And what youre left with is a realization that what syria needs, obviously, is a physical humanitarian intervention, but it also needs a cyber humanitarian intervention in the sense that we expect to be aware of these things, but the everyday syrian who now has a phone and spends all day online trying to find out whats going on, tear just caught in the cross theyre just caught in the crossfire. And thats the largest number of people many this horrific tragedy that dont understand awe they wantification, that dont understand why they should use the chrome browser, that dont understand all these different things, and theres a real question that we as technologist who are gee politically aware need to address which is how do we make sure that the average citizen is secure online even if theyre not physically secure . So in the book we use the example of somalia, and we say imagine for purposes of discussion somalia [inaudible] the government is better now, but imagine no government at all for a while. And, but imagine the Telecommunications Industry<\/a> which is roughly 11 of the gdp and is the only legitimate, profitable business in somalia, and everyone has smartphones. But theres nothing else. So the smartphone at that point becomes each more important. It becomes how you know where your friends are. Its how you get an alert that the other gang is around the corner. Its safe routes. We heard a story when we were in libya of schoolgirls that use google maps to watch where the nato bombing was so they could get themselves to school safely. So think about the importance of a smartphone. Now, imagine that youre wandering along in somalia, and your smartphone is taken by somebody. And now theyve got your contact list, your friends, they can impersonate you and so forth. These are very weighty issues. It is interesting, to your point, i think when you think back at the atrocities committed during war in history, there was a sense of people didnt know. People didnt know. Had we known, we would have intervened. And i think the striking thing about syria is we know. But if i could just ask you, sheryl, when you were at google, one of the many Amazing Things<\/a> she did at google, she had the fill an droppic and the social consciousness that others didnt at the company and spent a lot of time talking about development, development world, growth rate. Basically, the problems of a third world. So it seems to me that since you started that, things have gotten better because theyve gotten connected. But the other issues havent gotten fixed. Right. No, and that is a striking thing. And its to your point that the internet cant fix everything. So lets talk a little bit about the military. This is a big honor, but general ann dun warty is with us today. Its an honor to have her, first fourstar general. [applause] and becoming a dear friend of mine, which is exciting. Lets talk about how this affects the military. So you show up in baghdad. They did give you a flak jacket, but it wasnt sufficient. Ann will come back one other day and explain to us why the flak jackets are made the way they are, but how does this affect the military . Well, my Immediate Reaction<\/a> was were still fighting the wars the old way rather than the new way. So all of our interventions seem to basically involve trying to deal with the citizens. Whats the best thing that you can do for the citizens . Empower them. Whats the best thing the military can do . Build them wifi towers and a reasonably protected fiber optic network, right . So that they can actually learn whats going on, empower themselves, figure out if the previous dictator was lying to them, right . Get all the facts, right . And then develop whatever kind of society that theyre going to develop along with economy and so forth. This is the last thing the military does, not the first thing. So one simple answer would be that since almost all of our fighting ultimately seems to involve civilians that can then be turned against us by evil people and so forth, jared talks a lot about how the internet can change the perception of people. You know, they have theyre in a religious school. This is the only way, this is the only way. Theres no doubt, right . So one of the things that the internet can do is it can empower individuals. The natural strengths of the society can come out. Why dont we build those Wireless Networks<\/a> . In iraq we came to learn that saddam had not allowed people to use cell phones at all. And so after he was, essentially, out of hiding, they started using their first cell phones. We learned in burma when we were there that sim cards are 5,000 which is a fortune for anybody in myanmar. And, of course, after we were there last summer, they lowered the price of sim cards from 5,000 to 5, and then the phone system fell over with overcapacity. But if you, if i can chime in on the military side of it, we interviewed a group of navy seals that had been on the bin laden raid in the process of researching this book, and we asked them what is the ideal technology that you wish that you could, you know, have in combat. We expected things like, you know, robotic dolphins and sort of various other weird things, and they said we dont need a new technology developed, what we need is for the procurement cycles to change so that we can bring our iphone or android into combat and keep track of where our colleagues are. They said right now one of my friends told me right now that when he has to jump out of a plane, he literally cant bring he cant they have this tablet thats attached and a battery that lasts an hour and a half because theyre not able to use overthecounter technologies in combat. Thats one issue. The second issue is we talk a lot about the military Industrial Complex<\/a> as it pertains to cybersecurity as a critical aspect of our military. We have a real challenge in the sense that cybersecurity is not achieved without agility, and agility is extremely compromised by the tradition always that procurement cycles work. And then the third piece is if you think about if you think about traditional military assistance, helicopters, tanks, you know, various weapons, you know, when are we going to get to a point where, you know, providing cyber assistance to countries that are being attacked by more powerful countries that are not just their physical neighbors, but their adversaries many continents over. This is a critical piece. What should we do about the Syrian Electronic Army<\/a> . They are trying, theyre organizing to do Cyber Attacks<\/a> against western targets. Are they a serious target . Is there some military strategy there . Is there some Digital Strategy<\/a> . I dont know. But that needs to be in the conversation. Well, and the russians, whats interesting, you know, you have this foreign fighter problem in syria. Youve had 15,000 foreign fighters who are coming from all across the globe to fight in the civil war in syria on one side or the other. By the way, a third of those are coming from europe, and a third of the contingent coming from europe are converts. So it really is a global problem. Whats interesting and whats new that ive never seen before until syria is the russians are sending foreign fighters into syria, especially theyre not coming to fight the physical war, theyre literally sending Software Engineers<\/a> to come fight on behalf of the Syrian Electronic Army<\/a>. And sometimes theyre sending them physically, sometimes theyre fighting from appar. Presumably, in conjunction with iran. Right. So lets move from the military focus to the economy. So one of the things that happens with the advent of all this technology and so much, and so much progress and so much efficiency is a real crisis for jobs all over the world, particularly for the use. How for the youth. How do you think both of you and i think, eric, particularly with your google hat on because i know from my time at google you cared so deeply about the impact google has on the world, and i think youve done an amazing job leading there. Google has always had that, and i think all of us at facebook, we all want to have facebook we want to have that. How do you think about, i know you travel broadly in the developed world as well. How do you think broadly the Impact Technology<\/a> has on jobs and particularly for the youth unemployed throughout europe, throughout asia . It seems to me the jobless problem is going to be the defining problem for most of the rest of our lives. As interesting as it is to talk about ukraine and syria and so forth, we live and work in this economics weve accepted. And roughly speaking for the last decade or so, theres been quite a displacement of moring jobs because of automation. Manufacturing jobs because of automation. Its well documented you need fewer people to build a car, the process is more robotic. With advances in artificial intelligence, computers, many of which are done in this area, this problem is work for knowledge workers who have relatively repetitive jobs. There turn out to be a lot of such categories. So corporations if you look in the United States<\/a> as a classic example are substituting, essentially, labor for capital. In other words, theyre basically capital for labor. Theyre actually investing ahead of hiring. And the people who win in this process tend to be the incumbents, they tend to be the middleaged, and they tend to be the elites. So be you model out going if you model out going forward, you have a very significant problem because of the lack of jobs. Now, there are economists who believe that there will be jobs, that we dont have a jobless problem, but its a transfer of middle class relatively highpaying jobs to service jobs. And think of this as sort of the uber driver, right . A talented person whos working in a normal job, and theyre laid off or something bad happens, and so now they have con tin gent employment in a service job, and they do the best they can. There are plenty of examples of that. Most economickists say economists say jobs will be more contingent and so forth. Theres a separate set of Public Policy<\/a> issues around that, because in that situation you need some kind of a social safety net. We can have a debate as to how to do that, but you basically cant have people begging on the streets in america. Its just not going to be okay. And in europe you have the problems are effectively worse for the reasons that you can imagine; lack of capital formation, lack of competition, lack of globalization and so forth. So in talking and this is something ive been working on for this year in talking to people i think theres a couple of solutions, and theyre not good enough. And i would ask everybody here to help me think about how were going to solve this problem. Because if its the defining problem it is the defining problem especially for the next generation, its our problem too. The first is youve got to fix education. We can debate how to do that, but youre going to have to have a more educated work force because the uneducated jobs are being automated out. And we all believe in this, we watch this happening. I think were clear. I think the next thing you have to do and by the way, i should say you and i were with mark last summer where he gave a similar speech, so i know that mark agrees with me on these things. The second thing is to focus on immigration, right . Not because we want to replace the current workers by immigrant workers, but because immigrants tend to form companies, theres a lot of correlation with sort of great outcomes from allowing immigration. Another one is connectivity, right . To build global brands. And then the fourth one that is missed, i think, is youve got to create an environment where incumbents cant block new entrants. So you have to have a place, right, some place where startups can flourish, where the regulators wont kill em. Now, you sit there and say, well, isnt that kind of obvious . Most industries are highly regulated without passing judgment. The regulators and the regulatees have gotten to know each other very well, and the startups are not at the table. So an awful lot of regulations tend to favor the incumbents or the structural incumbents. Youve got to fix that. This may not be sufficient, but im sure that the list i just gave you is necessary. No, i think theres no doubt. And one more thing. Just, so here we are, were all obsessed with china, chinas tremendous success, great job. So here you are, and imagine were the equivalent of the politburo, and were having a conversation about china in 20 years. We look at the demographic trends, disastrous onechild policy and all of that, and then we look at the automation trends. And we realize that a couple hundred Million People<\/a>s jobs, which are in these manufacturing sites, are going to be replaced by robots. What are you going to do . Its not just a u. S. Problem. Its a global problem. Its a global problem. So there are also benefits to technology, and some of them are personal. And your first chapter in the book is our future severals. Im going to read one of my favorite passages. Therell be no alarm clock, at least not in the traditional sense. Instead listen to this, everyone youll be aroused by the aroma of freshlybrewed coffee. [laughter] this is my favorite part, and by a gentle back massage administered by your hightech bed. Erics wife is here, he can do that every morning, right, cindy . [laughter] you dont need this, because eric is administering the back massage. But for the rest of us, for the rest of us, youre more likely to wake refreshed because inside your mattress theres a special sensor that monitors your sleeping rhythms determining doesnt everyone have one of these . [laughter] so as not to interrupt your rem cycle. Your apartment is an electronic orchestra, and you are the conductor. With simple flicks of the wrist and spoken instructions, you can control temperature, humidity, ambient music and lighting. Youre able to skim through the days news while a freshlycleaned suit is retrieved from your automated closet because your calendar indicates an important meeting today, etc. , etc. So i need this, all of this. [laughter] would anyone just raise your hand if you would enjoy the mattress with the monitors for your rem cycles and a gentle back massage. [laughter] the only thing i need more than this is a selfdriving car. My oldest child is 8. Ive been very clear with larry and certificate day with you sergei with you, before he can drive, i need the selfdriving car, because i feel quite confident that googles technology is going to be better than his driving. Certainly at the age of 16. [laughter] certainly at the age of 16. But i also would really enjoy all of this. Where do i get one . Google working on this . [laughter] it seems like several products im going to have to buy. Our daughter sophie invented that scenario because she sort of wanted it. I think its going to happen. When you go through the analysis, every component thats in that description is available in some form today. You can, in fact, have a rem sleep cycle that wakes you up, and the book goes on to describe talking to the equivalent of a wall that says do i need to get up. And the wall says, no, you dont. And the reason is that, again, with your permission, its pirged out that your figured out that the airplanes going to be late, your boss is sleeping in, no ones going to call you. Will you use that service . [laughter] all those years i worked for if you were going to be late. I could have had an extra hour of sleep. Exactly. How realistic are some of these changes . Well, certainly the physical things, right, the time being so forth are real. I think the next generation of computer technology, and im happy to say that i think facebook is working on similar areas of ai and research, are really about going from sort of the searching and questioning and the kind of model that google has pioneered to a model which is much more suggestion and assisting, right . Surfacing ideas, telling you things. Google is experimenting with this thing called google now which is beginning to work pretty well where you have these now cards, and it says relatively straightforward things like how long it will take you to get to work, how i is the traffic doing. And as the ai friend of mine was in a meeting, and it beeped, and it said you need to go. You have a meeting in the city. Good. Yeah. [laughter] so sorry. Another example is take a look at the Company Called<\/a> ways which is this crowdsourced calculation about traffic to give you optimal traffic routeing. Thats another example of this. Theres example after example of human intelligence crowd source plus ai applied to it, applied to some kind of physical map or infrastructure that helps make your life better. I think in five or ten years the kinds of things that that opening scenario talks about will seem pretty straightforward in one form or another. This will, obviously, affect us not just our own sleep patterns and being on time and freshly brewed coffee and massages which, again, sounds awesome, thank you for painting a picture for me. But it affects us as parents. Jared, one month to go . Three weeks to go . A little more than a month. Youll become a father. Yes. And in the book you say parents are going to have the privacy and security talk even before the sex talk with their kids. Im going to. Youre going to. How are you going to take and youve, obviously, longterm father, this was further in your past hes, you have terrible naming advice. Jared needs to learn a little bit more about being a parent. Hes already figured out whats going to happen when the daughter is 10, 12, 14. He hasnt quite figured out who runs the household. [laughter] but to me, the key question is are you the kind of parent with a baby where you want your baby to sort of really stand out . In the book we say youre going to need to give your child a unique name so he or she shows up first in the search results. [laughter] right . And if youre one of these people who is just trying to get along and have a good time, you give sort of a generic name, right . I asked jared, which child are you going to have . And if you know jared, its going to be a standout daughter. Standout name . Broom hill da. [laughter] when i floated that idea, i slept on the couch that night. [laughter] which doesnt have a massage. It doesnt have a massage. No, no, but why dont you like my name . Broomhilda cohen would actually be the broomhilda . Its a german name. Okay. Deal breaker. Its a dealbreaker name. I dont even understand the name. [laughter] whats wrong with my name . Theres nothing wrong. Its hard to understand broomhilda. Lets just not even go there. [laughter] anyone in the audience spell broomhill broomhill da . Shes not coming around at all, shes being nice. [laughter] let me give you this sort of example, and let me also give a more serious thread to this which is in one of the things my wife and i seriously are going to do, is were going to create an email address for our daughter, and were going to see her on all the photos that we send out to family and then hand over her password when she turns 18. So when she gets online, shes going to have 10,000 unanswered emails. [laughter] yes. Really . I mean, when i have unopened emails, i feel like i need to open them, so thats your gift to your daughter . [laughter] i hadnt really thought about this in detail. Shes behind before she starts. Yeah, but shes ambitious. Shell catch up. [laughter] but let me give you so there is a sort of interesting and more serious aspect of in this to i think hes very serious. I am. Hes actually going to do this. Broomhilda cohen gmail. Com. I also have the idea that i dont really want unsupervised parties at our new apartment, so when our daughters old enough, im going to make her and all her friends hand over their devices when they walk into yeah. Eric told me i will be, like, the losing father of the year if i did that. Theyre not going to come to your house. No. But there is a serious aspect to this which is, you know, weve traveled all over the world together, and weve made it a point to talk to parents, you know u from saudi arabia to various parts of asia, latin america, etc. , on how theyre thinking about this. The states are quite high. Its more than just your child posting things that might hurt their chances of getting a job, and saudi arabia stands out as an interesting example. You talk to saudi parents, and their nightmare scenario is their daughter at 10 years old is, you know, chatting with somebody of the opposite sex saying things that maybe she shouldnt say, but was shes 10 because 10, its not an issue. The question today ask is what happens when the things she says which live in data permanence follow her around like a digital Scarlet Letter<\/a> until somebody chooses to take it out of context when shes 25 . We talk about honor killings, theres a real concern that with data permanence reputational damage that could be caused by things taken out of context might be the virtual version of an honor killing. And you talk in the book about insurance for that. An Insurance Market<\/a> i dont think exists today. You can take out insurance on your identity, on your reputation. We argue in the book that identity would become so important that you will take out insurance. That people will obsess about these kinds of questions. Jared likes to say that sort of the online maturity never quite catches online maturity matches physical maturity which is never quite as good as a mature adult and teenagers, right . We all understand this. So imagine the 16 or 17yearold antics all written out there, and now the same person at 25 is looking for a job, and all that stuffs out there. Are there examples where that information has been used against these candidates . Absolutely. Does that seem right to you . Doesnt seem right to me. And, in fact, in our system for hundreds of years its been true that if you commit if youre a juvenile below 18 and you commit a crime thats within some bounds of not murder [inaudible] you can actually go to a judge after an appropriate sentence and so forth and have the record be removed from the court, and you can legally say you were never convicted of a crime. It is, obviously, impossible today given because things are changing. The online world. Is that fair . Im not so sure. So the last question ill and, obviously, a very important one to me, and i know were going to take questions from the audience. Its on women. Obviously, something im deeply passionate about. And im surprisingly but i think quite sad, the benefits of technology dont equally accrue to men and women, so women are nearly 25 less likely to be online all over the world. Part of that is due to not having the capital that men have to buy technology, part of thats due to the investment we make in education. Women are, you know, much more likely to be illiterate because parents and society will put their boys in schools, not girls, which makes them less able to earn money, less able to use technology. There was a report just put out that if you got Internet Access<\/a> to an additional 600 million women in the next three years which given the rate of growth is not out of hand, should be able to be possible but not at same rate as men, you would increase gdp across 144 countries which are the poorest of the countries by 1318 finish. Finish [inaudible] so we kno that investments in women pay off at a higher rate for the well being of children and health and their own education. So its a very good virtuous to cycle. But were caught in the nonvirtuous cycle of investing in men. How do you think this changes . How do we make sure people understand all over that this technology has to equally be in the hands of women and men . Jared, i know you have worked on this at the state department. Yeah, so, you know, one of the things that secretary clinton used to say we talk a lot about womens issues. She would remind us that more than, you know, 50 of the worlds population are women. So whether youre talking about nonproliferation, counterterrorism, you know, civic activism, you could literally talk about any issue in the entire world, and its a womens issue by virtue of the smartest people on earth being women and the majority of people on earth being women. We appreciate the compliment. But i think you could make your statement even, in a way thats Even Stronger<\/a> in a sense. I think theres something the numbers dont account for. I spent a lot of time in autocratic countries and restrictive societies that either by law or norm have held women back. And theres an observation that i have made and many of my friends have made which is when women in the middle east get a chance to go to school, they outperform the men exponentially, right . As they do here. As they do here. And whats interesting, a friend of mine in kuwait told me something very interesting that may or may not be true, but the problem she said we have in kuwait right now is we need more womens empowerment. If you game this out, five years, the men 80 of the men work in the government which means they dont show up, and today just go to shopping malls and play video games. In five or seven years in kuwait, youre going to be talking about a need for mens empowerment. Laugh will have. Sheryl, youll remember when we did this about ten years ago. It turns out that the great succession in the developing world was microlending and the people who managed all that money were women because the men were louts. Thats my simplification of the description that i was given. And i think thats probably true with phones and connectivity as well. I think its not too hard to see that if we just figure out a way to get inexpensive phones by the way, the prices, the low price on an Android Phone<\/a> in china is about 100. These are very powerful smartphones. Prices are falling more or less correlated with moores law, so you could imagine 70, 50 within tree to five years three to five years which are price points which even in a micro lending situation people with can use their smartphones. And imagine that that phone is loaded with information about literacy and culture. You could in a small number of years with, by giving these phones effectively to women, solve the educational problem, the Early Childhood<\/a> education problem. Theres a lot of correlates with respect to childhood iq and the involvement of parents and so forth. You could talk to women about taking care of tear kids when theyre very young, helping them do all that. You could have a huge change. I mean, like, hundreds and hundreds of millions of people that are empowered. Eventually, theyve got to win against the oppressive male structures. I just cant imagine when we were in saudi arabia, the women behind the veil, theyre texting, right . Theyre communicating, right . Theyre incredibly intelligence. L what a powerful image, right . Behind the veil theyre connecting. The best professors, the best achievement and so forth, we actually visited one of these universities. At some point the men just have to give up. [laughter] but, sheryl, can i theres a, this notion of behind the veil is very interesting. Theres a story that i cant resist telling. When we were in pakistan, we met a group of women whod been attacked by the taliban with acid. Something people dont talk as much in pakistan. We went to visit these women, and the physical scars that they bear, they carry a terrible stigma in society that doesnt let them work, doesnt allow them to walk on the streets without being ridiculed, etc. So were talking to these women, and we ask them how theyre able to be so optimistic, and one of us smiles and shows us her phone. They all live in this house together, and theyre training in various Technical Skills<\/a> and learning how to surf online, and one woman said to us that, you know, she loved the internet because online her scars are invisible, so the internets given her a Second Chance<\/a> at life. Now you think thats amazing, this woman then met a man online who eventually she met in real life, and now theyre married. So, you know, you think the internet doesnt matter. I cant think of a group of women that are more disenfranchised, more beaten down than acid victims, and the internet has literally allowed them to enjoy life and enjoy its benefits. An amazing story. So i know were going to take audience questions. Yes, you have them. Yes. Okay. How will issues related to Net Neutrality<\/a> i think this ones for you, eric finish affect easy and cheap access to bandwidth . What are some proposed solutions . In the developing world, most of the telecoms are still monopoly or near monopoly providers. And youre not going to get really good Internet Access<\/a> until you have competition in those places. An example is that in africa the average Internet Connection<\/a> costs more than it does in the United States<\/a>. If you can imagine i how foolish that is. Thats right. And if you divide that by the percentage of gdp, its astronomically expensive. Its just a terrible thing. Yeah. And so the bigger problem, i think we can solve the smartphone problem with price because its a consumer product, but an even bigger problem is going to be getting the reasonably quality bandwidth to these countries and getting those networks upgraded. So we need that competition. In the u. S. A lot of people have been studying this, how do we do this. We do not have common carrier laws that apply to the internet, so a combination of public pressure so that the internet is not used to favor particular content, but ultimately i think our answer remains the same, competition. If you only have one provider of something and you dont have another choice, that would be an example of not having enough competition. You comment on Digital Currencies<\/a> . And the effects on economies and the [laughter] i didnt buy any. I am fascinated by this. You were just about to buy some. [laughter] well, bitcoin, the bitcoin defenders are saying if one bank that holds dollars goes out of business, its not the dollars, its the one bank. Its called the federal reserve. [laughter] you worked there. Im well aware. Half a billion better than anyone in the world. Its half a billion bitcoins that are gone, right . This weekend . Is that right . [inaudible] 6 . Yeah. So how are Digital Currencies<\/a> going, jared . Theres a few ways to look at this, one, i think we typically made bitcoin synonymous with clip to currency fair enough. I think the question you have to ask is, is it here to stay, and i think the answer is yes. The second question is how long will unregulated crypto currentlies last . We just ask sheryl this . When is the u. S. Going to step in and regulate this . I dont know. Honestly, i dont know. There was a really good article, i forget who wrote it, but they explained bitcoins, and they said bitcoins for school children. And it said i have an apple, i give you the apple. You give me whatever for the apple. Now i know the apple. I dont need a regulator. This story was written before this weekend or last week, right . And i think this is something that people didnt understand. And the point people have made is that this is secure because of the controlled sourcing aspect of well, but i think you studied when you were at harvard yeah, no. The depression. The technical answer on bitcoins is that bitcoins is a remarkable achievement, and the ability to create something which is not due applicable in the Digital World<\/a> has enormous value. And hard. Very hard. But its incredibly useful for many, many computer applications. So without with commenting on whether the bitcoins will get regulated because youre the expert, not me, the bitcoin architecture, literality the literally the ability of having these ledgers that cant be replicated is an advance. One of the other problems that people dont talk as much about is the digital wallet, right . So theres a question of how secure the crypto currency itself is, but if the digital walls arent secure, its a whole other problem. A good example is the canadians tried their hand at the currency, something called mint chip which was pegged to the canadian dollar. And they ultimately shut it down because all of the digital wallets were getting hacked. If the digital walls arent secure, then were missing half of the challenge. I remember when paypal first came out and talking to our friends at ebay i was shocked at the number of the kinds of attacks that ebay and paypal faced, especially from countries from a whole bunch of nonu. S. Countries. Its important to remember that when you have these economic systems, theres an awful lot of people trying to break into them. And i think thats going to be permanent no matter no matter what. How do you see Human Interaction<\/a> evolving in a world that is increasingly automated . It seems the more connected we become, the more distant we become from living in the physical world. And its interesting because this is something you wrote about in your book. In your book you wrote there are two worlds at once. Theres a Virtual World<\/a> where we all experience some kind of connectivity, and a physical world where we still have to contend with bad luck and the good and bad sides of human nature. Your book explores the ways this Virtual World<\/a> and this physical world interact, and i think both what you said and this question really gets a how do you see one impacting the other . Im working on turning off my phone during dinner. [laughter] hows that going . Youre never going to do that. Wait, we realize wendy . What percentage . 80. 80s good. Im working on it, you know . Its difficult. Tinner is short, you know . Dinner is short, but i count the minutes, right, before i can turn it back on. For what its worth, by the way, when we were disconnected from the internet in north korea, eric after five minutes, i literally saw his thumb starting to twitch. [laughter] so im saying i think this is actually a medical problem. [laughter] more than specific to eric, or do you think broader definitely to eric, probably to me, maybe to everybody. So, you know, we the good news is we really have and, again, you all together have built this amazing interfactive World Interactive<\/a> world. But humans are the same. We do get addicted to things. There are terrible stories of people who become online addicted with terrible outcomes. Im working on din every. Dinner. And i think the deeper part of the question is whats it doing to the way we interact. And the sort of the traditional people say, well, you know, i dont have any friends anymore. No, you have hundreds of friends. You interact in different ways. Remember the whole bowling alone . Its clearly false, right . Youre bowling with everyone. The impact on identity is interesting. So for all of us more people will come to know us digitally than will ever meet us in the physical world. Especially with your daughter. Especially with my daughter. Her entire and shes going to be 10,000 emails behind when shes 2. But thats okay. This is a good idea. Yes. Jareds decided its not okay to post sonograms before birth. Theres no opportunity for consent like a burp or laugh or [laughter] a smile or something. But the point is so what are you going to do, hold it up in front of the new baby saying can i post this picture of you . [laughter] she might say yes. Unclear. Parenting is quite different than you think itll be before you do it. [laughter] theres Nothing Better<\/a> than talking to someone who doesnt have kids yet. This is how its all going to work. You know what eric told me when i first told him we were having a baby, his First Response<\/a> was resist the urge to think youre the first person on earth to ever have a child. [laughter] i forget where i was going with this point. But on on identity. Yes, on identity. Because well be better known online than people will interact with us in the physical world, what it means is the implications of what we do online are probably of greater consequence in determining our identity, and thats challenging because we have less control. So, but the way to think about this is you start off, brand new baby, you have, like, complete control over your identity except you have him as your dad. And as you age, right, the percentage of control over your identity decreases. So by the time your daughter gets to the year 2100, right . So 90ish, near 90, think about the percentage and so forth description of her where she was, where she did and all the things thatll happen compared to who she really is. And its not just we havent figured this out yet. Its not just what we say and post about ourselves, what others say and post about us. So we basically are sort of one unit in an entourage of people that are shaping whoer. Who we are. Its interesting, it brings up another thing. I know were all working on, which is that how do we think about the Responsibilities Companies<\/a> have for privacy and security, for the googles, for the facebooks, for everything we do . And also the increasingly american element to the internet. Were in a system, and you know this better than anyone, where countries are incleesingly creasingly having [inaudible] for the bifurcation of the control of data which i think ties to the identity of their citizens and ties so to some of the ideas you have in the book about a virtual state. How do you think about how all of these connect, individual Privacy Company<\/a> responsibility and data loamization. In localization. In the paperback which comes out tomorrow we actually say thats right. Theres the paperback. I got it early. 12. [laughter] on amazon. Plus sales tax. Free shipping. Easily multiple times that in lengthing. [laughter] and in learning. And great pictures on the back. Thank you, sheryl. [laughter] its a mustbuy. [laughter] you heard it here first. [laughter] so theres even a robotic hand. By the way, that cover art was done by jeff ciewns. Hold that up again. Its really actually pretty amazing. All the different hands. Ones virtual, kind of. I guess real, robotic. Hes an artist. [laughter] the snowden revelations did a real number on our relationships with countries yes, they did. Germany, for example. And sheryl and i have been spending lots of time dealing with the consequences and the perception of american nsa activities and so forth. And this is a good example of what will happen in the future. Countries arent going to stop spying on each other. And no one quite knows thousand solve this problem. An example was a couple of weeks ago Angela Merkel<\/a> indicated shed be in favor of having data localization in germany which sounds like a great political thing but its, one, not workable, two, its [inaudible] and its a very bad idea for germans and for citizens all over world. Were facing similar issues in brazil for both companies. I dont think weve quite figured out the consequences of that in a government sense. In a privacy sense, again, facebook has been through the same sorts of travails. You ultimately have to say to citizens we will keep your information private, you have to decide you have a responsibility for how much you want to disclose, where you want to disclose it. You cant just blindly assume that its the old model. The new model has a lot more subtlety. So, and i did not plant this question, but i want to thank whoever wrote it. Theres a lot in the press recently about the lack of women in Computer Science<\/a>. And the numbers which you are well aware of and were all well aware of is that in the 1980s women were getting 3537 of the Computer Science<\/a> degrees. Were down to 13. If you believe this is important, if you believe the wage gap matters, if you understand that Technology Jobs<\/a> are so important to future employment and theyre better paid, you have to worry about equality, you have to worry about the wage gap increasing. Theres a lot to worry about with women not being in Computer Science<\/a>. Google very much to erics credit and to larry and sergeis credit absolutely the forerunner of this. Even when i joined google which was not that many people were there very focused on women in Computer Science<\/a> and recruiting, but its an issue for all of us. If youve got 13 president , its very 13 , its very hard to get women. How do you think about this for google, how do you think about this in terms of how we encourage women all over the world . You could understand the womens, lack of women in our society as sort of an escalator problem. Theres sort of an escalator that people follow. Theres a lot of evidence that women get off that escalator at various points for reasons that have been fairly well established, and we need to address that. This is a Real National<\/a> crisis for america, and there are plenty of fields where they have figured this out. Classic example is in biology where a majority of scientists are now women. So it is possible to do this. Many people, many sort of old white guys like me have talked about this. Weve not come up with a better set of ideas than empowerment, training, making this stuff cool. Theres a problem, as you know, with sort of in the teenage years. You write about this in your book. And i think weve got to come up with a consensus of how were going to guide this. We need the iq, we need the talent. Its amazing, i mean, even in our own area, so i sent my son to computer camp. Its a great program, a lot of people do it. Two years ago in Silicon Valley<\/a>. So you dont know this yet. But everything does eric does, but youll learn. At 7 youre pretty much deciding what your children is doing. 35 kids, Silicon Valley<\/a>, five girls. Of the five girls, i put three in myself because it was my niece and her two friends. So anyone who thinks this is about to get better needs to look at that. Now, the camp is coming out this summer, and theyre doing programs only for girls to try to encourage, but its really a stereotyping problem, and i think the impact, the impact on the future cant really be underestimated. How are you going to tib this for your daughter think about this for your daughter . Four weeks from now. Again, im an expert on child rearing. [laughter] again, my view on this, again, not being expert on it is start early. You hear about things like goldilocks and others, people are trying to figure out how are there ways to create opportunities for young girls to get inspired and excited about engineering camp another example. But theres clearly not enough examples of this, and you cant i dont believe you cant wait until your child gets to college and is deciding a major. If you dont start earlier, then you lose that early investment where what actually shapes what they want to do. So im very worried about this 13 , but i am heartened by the fact that very, very analytical skill. Maybe we can attract them. Google, one of the things that facebook has done. Um so going toward the end of our time looking toward future one of the idea of goals for google, which i know you are now part of google working with eric on is. By 2020 board, which seems like a specific date, we will end. Why pick up this goal . How are you going to achieve it . Why did you pick 2024 . This is something that is obviously of a big endo aspiration. A lot of the travel the nancy did was to countries that were more autocratic, the places that were still coming on line. It seems like some of the big wild card is how autocratic regimes will fare. And oppressively censored internet. So surely we should help that. It sounds like an obvious bang. It is so obvious to all where are the prescriptions associated with that. Can we make repressive on 0. 1 a share relevant to nine right now lot of people are doing interesting circumvention work, but there are two problems. One, they dont scale. Anyone that is successful, the government quickly shuts down command the second has to do with just. You dont know the origin of the particular proxy or tool. Will we decided was to leverage the engineers a we have at the company to figure out if there are tools that we can build that will help address to critical problems. Content being taken offline and a second is the filtering challenge of repressive regimes answering. We are well under way in terms of building to these processes. I think it is fair to say that the life of autocratic dictators will get a lot worse. It has been great, but it is going downhill. A good game will you had. Again, it goes back. We have always had geopolitical problems. Crazy leaders. The individual because of the technology and well build is a new problem for them. They cannot shut the engine at down. If you do that than a classicisms youre scared picks the other side. So the reality is, you have to work with the internet. A classic example is china. As you know, they have banderas in one form or another with their likely to do for a long time. There are new services. So an example of a weak chain where you do a group of messages. By the wake of you can do e commerce. It is heavily censored. What happens when you have a clever idea every person in this room thinks its such a clever idea and you began to send it to all of your friends, and 10 Million People<\/a> think it is a great idea. Theres got to be your the results of empower your citizens we have time for one last question. Want to ask both of you. The what are you most pessimistic about for the future . The one thing your most pessimistic about and the one thing in our most pessimistic. The thing that i am most pessimistic about touches on what we spoke up for. It would like to think technology is a Silver Bullet<\/a> answer for the world problems, but there are still mass killings the huge portions of the population living in abject poverty and and that with the technology could instantly solve those problems. Work activity bettors everyones lives but does not solve the problems of socioeconomic divide. There are limits. In some respects it could exacerbate the problem. What i am most optimistic about is basically experiencing the most individually and power global citizenry. A billion people come on line. It will happen one time and never again. Imagine how the ability to know what is happening, to have access to the worlds information cant have the upper genital to make choices, it is game changing. There are challenges that we talk about and the boat, with this notion of a schism will be more empowered with choices and options than any other Time Ministry<\/a> has to be a huge benefit. When sharon and the start of the book we did not know how we would you the future for the developing world. Very optimistic. There are two areas the more about. The first is the question of race between good guys and bad guys. A situation where technology can be militarized and used and really hurt people, technology can love for scale and number of scenarios that i worry about. We dont fully understand the platforms and the implications of things that we might be doing we have got to think about that. We have a moral responsibility. The second one is the jobs question. The race between computers and humans. The humans have to win. Five or six to just one. Humans have to win. The things that are uniquely human after cheyenne while many of these infrastructures and the human system have to be updated. We dont to file or that we do not understand. The second one, we understand the problem. If we are still arguing rather than how we well politically and culturally solve such. Please everyone join me in thanking these two Brilliant Minds<\/a> and great writers. Thank you. [applause] thank you so much. Thank you so much. I am going to give you a chance to make your way. Say a couple of words in closing. Can we Say Something<\/a> that . Please. This has been the best venue. This is due for you. It is such a great institution. Support it. Come to it. His legacy will last far longer. Thank you for doing such a great job. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That was wonderful. Eric injured have been interviewed and will continue to be interviewed about this book in many settings, but we had a great moderator. I hope you enjoyed that. [applause] as cheryl mentioned, the book goes on sale on paper boat. There is a new afterwards, so there is a completely different take. I hope you will take advantage of that","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia601608.us.archive.org\/0\/items\/CSPAN2_20140504_223000_Book_Discussion_on_The_New_Digital_Age\/CSPAN2_20140504_223000_Book_Discussion_on_The_New_Digital_Age.thumbs\/CSPAN2_20140504_223000_Book_Discussion_on_The_New_Digital_Age_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240620T12:35:10+00:00"}