Than an hour. Walked to jades room, and in deep conversation about be which thinks her mom would need to take. I flood on the bed. No television or radio. I listenedded to the conversations through the paper thin walls. Did you see that little girl from . Shes here all by herself. Sounded like jade. Know, she said, thats so sad. Although i couldnt see her i was almost certain she was shaking her head. She felt are so for me. I drowned out to the rest of the conversation i couldnt see it. I floccussed on the to done focuses on me bedspread. I said that working hard to convince myself i was going to be okay. To. The i was a little girl from california, the who didnt have a mother to help her up pack. To me i was the girl who made it. [applause] i love what you said. Me a we all continue to be sustained. Nicole will meet new the lobby for further conversation for a book signing. Thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] every sunday at 3 00 p. M. Eastern from now until the election, booktv will bring awe authors who provide different perspectives of one campaign issue. This week our focus is on policing. Youll hear from steve as osborn, and Heather Mcdonald who has a back. First, steve osborn. About the life of a new york city cop. How are you doing . My name is steve osborn and i used to be a new york city cop for 20 years, and yes, thefo accent is real. But the funny thing is i didnt know i had an accent nil came to savannah. I was a cop for 20 years and then i became a writer. People asked me how you go from being a cop to a writer. Dont liketling the story especially at a back festival with other writers because they want to strangle me. Happened by depend. Action dent. When youre a cop you have no life. Im working around the clock. Im working nights, weekends, holidays, never home. Then all of a sudden im retired. And im sitting there and stare at the walls. First thing did was to move the sofa from there to there. And my wife says, what are you doing . She goes, you havent been homea in ten years. Put that sofa back writ was. Where it was. So i did. So now im sitting there and im kind of bored, and i dont know why. I guess everybody had that little voice in the back of their head that whispers in their ear what to do. And that same voice kept me t safe, watch out for this or that guy. It was that same little voice that was whispering in my ear to write. So i grabbed a pad and a pen and i wrote a story. A short story. P about 12 pages. About just something that happened to me on the job. So after i wrote this thing im looking at it, like, all right can what now . So i handed it to some family and friends. Im like, i just wrote this. Do you mind reading and it tell me what you think. So they read and it they were like, we didnt know you could write. We d we didnt know you were that smart. But they loved it. So im like i was kind of surprised and taken back. So a i wrote another one and handed it out and everybody read and it they loved it. So i wrote another one, and the first one had them crying. The second one had them laughing so i wrote a third one and had them crying again. Had these stories and i was juss doing it to kill time. Didnt know what to do now. Am i wasting my time . But it felt good to write. Its hard to explain but writing, the actual act of writing and putting those stories and my thoughts and my feelings on paper, it stirred something in my soul. It was the same way at 3 00 in the morning id be out on patrol. This was where i was supposed to be. Not supposed to be home in bed, sleep, watching a movie with the wife, or i was supposed to be out on patrol at 3 00 in the morning, chasing bad guys. It stirred something in my soul. So i had these stories, and everybody was telling me they liked it, but being a cop youre cynical. So they were family and friendss and i thought they were just telling me what i wanted to hear. But i had a friend who was aiter real writer. She wrote a best seller,es television, movie. So she knew what she was talk about. I called her and said, just read this stuff. If its no good, im throw thego computer out the window and start a garden or something. Dont know what. So, she read and it gets back tt me and goes, this is pretty good. A little rough around at the edges but this is pretty good. So i kept writing. Wrote another story. Bat year later she called me up out of the blue. She tell monday she is doing this show called the moth. Anybody heard of it . H. [applause] what a great organization. For those who dont know, the moth is a group where you get up on stage and regular people tell a real story about their life. E. So they had this show. And the night before they had a cop who was scheduled to appear and he had to bail out. Now theyre stuck. So they asked my friend, know anybody who can fill in . A cop maybe. Sure enough she called me. The universe work inside mysterious ways. So she called me up and tells me about this. So i call them and pitch the story over the phone. Next night, im at the players cup in park. Thought this would be in thee bailment of a church, a couple people sitting around, going like this for applause. Theres 300 people there. I was never so scared in my whole life. And i was involved over the years in, like, thousands of arrests. This was the scarest thing i ever had to do. I wanted to run out the door. Told the producer, i would rather by chasing a guy with a gun down a dark alley. Than get up on the stage. But i got up there, and not for nothing, blew the roof off the itint. Everybody liked it. The theme of the show was crimes and misdemeanors and the speakers before me all had these stories. Isde one guy says he did 20 years for murder he didnt commit. Another guy was a defense attorney. Talking about how screwed up the criminal Justice System was. And then my friend gets up and tells about how she got arrested at the Republican National convention by some less than friendly riot cops, and how you could use a baloney sandwich aso a pillow in central booking. So i get up there and told my story and they loved it. I thought that was the end of it. About two weeks later the moth called me and said, were going on a nationwide tour and want to bring you next thing i know im in l. A. At ucla in front of 2400 people. Thats what i said. Ot d then we went to seattle. San francisco, denver. Kind of encourages me to keep. Wrote more stories and then they put me on nw npr then i get a call from an editor who says i just saw your stuff. I think its imperative you write a book. I said, i think youre right. So before i got up and i toldyo these story is would write them out. I helped me flesh the storiesld out in my head. So i told them, maybe i have half a one of first draft stuff. He said sent it to me. Had never written anything before. Didnt know if it was really worthy. So i sent it to him, and three days later he calls me and says, you got on agent . Just so happened i did. And an agent had herd me on npr radio and he goes, id like to rep you. And when i told him i wanted dish like writing short stories. I enjoy that. A cops life is a series of short stories. When you go out on patrol, you know, i may handle 10, 15, 20 jobs in a night and every job is a story. It has a beginning, middle, an end, different characters, different dialogue, different consequences. So a cops life is really a series of short stories my agent told me. People dont do for that. D he want me to write a memoir. And i thought about it but the little voice, it wasnt working. I didnt would to do that. So my agent and i didnt talk for a couple of months. Then the editor from double day and offers me a practice. I called my agent and said, we good at contract. And then i had to finish my book. I kept writing and writing and finished the book itch wasnt as hard dish wouldnt say it pass therapy but i did enjoy it. Everybody cop out there has great stories. Its the nature of the job. Every night youre involve in peoples lives. During crisis. And it just after doing that for 20 years you got a million stories. Not everybody can write and it put it on paper. Ev so, i wrote the book. And as i was writing it, through some of the stories i was afraid, im like, nobody is going to believe this. Theyre going to think im makes if the stuff up. And i wrote one story about a busy night i had in a fourhour period, really a fourhour period, 17yearold kid shot, two women stabbed in a family dispute that went crazy, and i had a 2yearold kid fall out a fourth are store under before the party and before he hit the ground he clipped his head on the fire hydrant. So i talked to him while he died. And after that i looked at my watch and im lying, all that happened in four hours. Nobody is going to believe thisu but thats a cops life. And the next night was probably a quiet night. Nothing memorable, but every night when you good to work you do not know what is going to happen from one minute to the next. As i got towards the end of the book, there was one story that had to be written, and i didnt want to write about it. I didnt feel the need too write about it. I felt very selfconscious writing about it but it was about 9 11 and if i didnt write about it there would be a hole in the book. When i start writing about it, the first couple of day is dont remember much. Its all still kind of a blur to me. Even when i hooked up with guys with me at the time, they say the same thing. They remember something very vividly. Have no recollection. Remember something sir vividly, they cant remember. So all of us the first couple of days, its a blur. After that i was working 12 hours on, 12 hours off for the next two months and my unit was in Detective Bureau so we got assigned to the morgue, and our job was to identify the remains coming in. And i couldnt write about what i saw and what we did. D. Those are peoples families, buildinembers, and i the building was falling down, cracked walls walls and peelingt and the front door nyes up and this guy comes running through the front door, covered in blood. And another guy chasing him with a pipe. Im jumping over the desk and with some other cops and were wrestling and fighting to trying to get the pipe off of him it was two guys from across the street, they were sharing a beer. Then im signature on the deskng again, looking at this big piece of peeling paint, waiting for it to fall down and the front doors burst open again and some guy with bagpipes coming burst it 3 00 in the morning. Comes through the door of the station houston. Rs does a couple of laps. He plays plays some song like ot braveheart. I launches out the door, down the block, you hear the bagpipes fading away. Im like, i love this job. I really do. I love this job. This is like the greatest job in the world. Now, im sure a lot of people have questions and if you want i could take a few questions from you. Quest can you come up to the microphone here. Were on cspan. If you decent to that nobody on the television can hear you. So yaw have to talk into the microphone. I wondered well two questions. Im from new york. Where is the ninth precinct . Lower east side. Fromhouseon to 14th, from broadway to the east river. And i was there during the 80s and 9s9s so when new york city was the wild west. Go there now and dont even recognize the place. Now i have three questions. Go ahead. Keep going. How did the neighborhood change while you were there . Is one question. And then if you could tell us if the writing was therapeutic for you, if any one of this stories is like, this is really helping me work through one h thing that happened one time. And then in the funniest one. Four questions. New york changed like you cant imagine. Like the lower east side. It was the wild west. Streets divide walk down with a gun any hand, inside the coat pocket because it was so dangerous, now days there are little cafes down there and people are sing lattes. Moms are going into the park that would just they wereto where are zones in and now theyre war zones and now theyre pushing baby carriages. Writing was therapeutic. And theres a lot of funny stories but a lot of sad stores and you would think that the book would be filled with actioo asked venture, and there is. Theres a couple of stories where guys pulled guns on me and i had a gun in my face and im fighting for my life. And those are good stories. I enjoy them but its the stories about people, about being in peoples lives, that interaction between two human beings. Like you would think the first story i wrote would be, like, some big car chase with shots fired or homicide or Something Like that. But i wasnt. I dont know why but the first story i wrote was the first time i had to tell a parent that their child was dead, and their child was in the other room. And she had been dead for a few days, and she her body was badly decomposed and mom wanted to go into the room. She was not going believe her child was dead until she saw the body, and i couldnt let that happen. Was a rookie. About 25 years old. This was not my job. Somebody else, a detective, a sergeant, something but there was nobody available. It was sunday morning, and it fell upon me. And the police work, especially when youre a young cop, youre confronted with difficult situations, and you got to rise to the occasion. Youre in these peoples lives during the most difficult time to in their life and yaw have tn rise to the occasion. I dont know hough i did it. Sat we were in the hallway and i sat her down on the steps and i didnt know what to say. And i kind of stopped thinking about what to say and just started feeling and i knelt down in front of her and took her hands in mine, looked like i was proposing marriage or something. And i took her hands in mine and i convinced her it was best to remember her daughter the way she was, and not the way she is. And it worked. And when i walked into that building that morning, i was young. I was 25 years old. Ha was a rookie. But a couple hours later when i walked out, i felt that i had grown, matured and become more of the cop that i wanted to be. Co next question . [applause] do you miss it . Actual work . And does writing about it give you a chance to do it again . Yes, die miss it. We always say that you miss the guys. Other cops they become like family to you. You go through these incredible adventures. With these guys. My life depends on my partner and my Partners Life depends on me, and theres a bond there. Ill meet guys now i know from 30 years ago, and were still friends. We went from something that most people dont. My life depend on him being there when the whole world turned to crap and his life depended on mine. So you develop friendships and bond that last forever. One of my first partners, we hang out together all the time. So, i miss the guys. I miss the adventure. I always say new york city cop was my life of adventure, and i do miss that. You can ride thes craziest roller coaster in the world you want get a rush. Its like being a fighter piloti and then work for united airlines. Its flying but its not the same. Miss that part. Oh. And im a yankee fan. Grew up in the bronx. I was there during the giuliani years. Welcome to savannah, by the way. What was your opinion on stop and fridays income did it work . And stop and frisk . Did it work . If knew somebody would ask me that question. Knew it. The one thing i will say is, stop and frisk works. What happened was in the old days, guys would be walking down the street with guns in their waistbands. Somebody would step on somebody elses shoe. Somebody would look at somebody the wrong way. Or you walk down a block that youre not supposed to walk down and then theyre whipping out guns and shoot thing place up. What happened with stop and frisk, we were stopping a lot o, people. We thrown them up against the wail and friction them, and right away all the bad guys knew youht cant walk around with a gun your waistband because theres good chance youll get stop. So they had to live it its home so now if someone looked at you the wrong way or stepped on your somehow, they had to go home and get their gun, and half the time, by the time he got become the other guy was gone or the situation diffused. So stop and frisk worked. We used to respond to crimes, take reports, try make an arrest and went from reactive to proactive, trying prevent crime. If you or two ask me back in the 80s or 9s so if murders could be reduced and major crime wise say youre nuts. I would not think it would possible. But it was done and it was done because of a more proactive approach to policing. [applause] im from new york. Worked in new york city on Williams Street for six years. Came down here and saw this and it is would copy of the medal of the first cop killed in new york city, and in 1909 the yankees said this is our symbol. Did you know that . I didnt know that. Mayor giuliani is given credit for cleaning up the city. Your knowledge and thoughts on it and was he really a contributing to keep new york city safer than it was . How safe is new york city . Whether you like giuliani or dont like him you have to give credit where credit is due. Before that, like i said we just took reports and watched crime go up and took somebody took a leader to say we can do something about this. It doesnt have to be like thisg back then you couldnt leave a brown paper back in your car without somebody breaking into it to see what was in there. Ar and it just took and back there we had 40,000 cops. , we had an army. Somebody had to lead the charge, and whether you like him or dont like him you have to give credit where credit is due and he showed that something could be done. Mayors after that and Police Commissioners after that, followed suit exacter, suit, and now new york city some over nibbled is worked in were war zones. It was insane. One time my wife calls me. Was working in the bronx and im talking to her on the phone and she is complaining about the bills, the credit card bills. And right outside my office window, bam, bam, bam. A driveby shooting on the stationhouse block. Gunshots echoing through my window, im covering the phone if dont want her to hear it because shell good nuts. And im telling here, got to go, i got to go. She says, you dont understand. The build are killing us. And i want to tell, he somebody else just got killed down thebui block. So i made up some excuse to get off the phone and then im running down the street, good r into n hand, into who knows knat. About then we went from 2200 homicides to like around 300. Its incredible the reduction in crime, and i am proud to say i was there part of it, along with all the other cops and watched it happen, and it was incredible to watch. I was at a Christmas Party and i was talking to young cops. Im the old cop now. Talked to the cop who did the crime analysis. Said how many robberies are you doing a month . You can call tells the barometer of a neighborhood by how many street robberies and she says to me, oh, about 12. I said, 12 . Ay are you kidding me . When i was there we were doing a million, an absolute minimum, of 120 a month. And thats only the ones that got reported. Half the times people got robbed and thought, whats the use, and win opt home, and never made a report. 12 was an astounding number. One night during the blizzard we had eight and now they do 12 in a month . New york city is such a different place. Kick myself. Some of these neighborhood is worked in a lot of abandoned buildings and empty lots and you drove by them every night. If i had half a brain in my head have bought one of those empty lot but i didnt think the city would turn around like it has. Its complete by different city. In fact i both real estate in the east village so thank you for cleaning init. How about a deal on an apartment. Obvious question. If you loved the business why did you retire after 20 years . D and the other questiones how often did you id at cats deli. I ate at cats deli,is. Why did i resneer you retire after 20 years and theres a reason. Police work burns you out. It eats you up over time. The other day i just bumped into a cop, walking our dogs. The dogs are talking so we started talking and he was a retired detective and at the me mets why he retired. He was just burned out. And he said it took him a fuel year a full year to get healthy again, the working around the clock. The nights and weeks weeks weekt right. You dont sleep right. I could goodfor years i hardly went to bed or woke up at the same time every day. Its a very unhealthy lifestyle, and you cant do it forever. Everybody says that they know when its time to retire, and i knew. Knew the exact day. I knew the exact second when i decided to retire. N i i was a lieutenant a commanding over of the manhattan gang squad and it was very busy place. This was bat year after 9 11 and at that point i thought id seen everything and done everything and i was burnt out and i just didnt have it in me anymore. A couple of months before we caught a homicide that it was a ganger related homicide. A guy killed another guy ined front of his pregnant wife. She standing there like six months pregnant, and watches her husband die. Theres not much more dish mean, what is sadder than that . And i always loved the job. I mean, im not dish wasnt anyy smarter than anybody else. I wasnt any more clever than anybody else but i wasas tenacious. I never gave up when i was after a guy. And one detective the guy who did this was a gang member, mexican gang member. And he had no roots in the community. He wasnt legal immigrant. No roots so really had no way track him down. No way to house where re group. No mother, father, girlfriend so he picked up and left. Then we get a tip from anef informant we might find him in yonk yonkers, hanging out on the corner look four daywork. And one detective says, how about we go up the next couples eye day and see if we can find. The. Normally this is something that gets my juices going and i was sit michigan hi office, my feet up on the desk and only got four hours sleep the night before. Im eating cold pizza. And nothing happened. I was dead inside. I was numb. I was dead. Just couldnt get the juices flowing anymore, and at that second i said, its time for mea to pull the plug. Wasnt the time of guy get to myself ha job in headquarters and wearing a suit and carrying a clientboard and telling war stories a clipboard and telling war stories and thats when decided it was time for know go and i did. Time for me to go, and i did. [applause] great job. Thank you. Im from new jersey, right across industry street, the river. I have a youngunder daughter who went to school in the bronx for four years, lives in manhattan and id like so tanks to you and roast of the Police Department for keeping everybody safe. Definitely a safe are place today. [applause] my question is, i dont know what started with the murder of the two policemen in brooklyn issue think it was, wherecurrent deblastow, the current mayor had a difficult time with his relationship with the police force after at the services and that type of thing mitchell question is, is he doing h anything to improve his relationship with the police force . Has he made in progress . You know i wrote a book, right . Yeah. Yeah. Um, when those two officers were killed i actually wrote an oped for the new york times. In the emergency room, the cops turned their back on the mayor when he went into the emergency room to see the officers. And people were upset about it. But i dont think it it wasnt a wellcalculated plan. To turn their backs on the mayor. Everybody knew he wad no use for cops. That is what he campaigned on, the tale of two cities. The oppressive Police Department. The cops felt he flood use for cops and that night when it happened and he is walking into the room where are there two dead beloved brothers, or the other room issue think they just felt dish wasnt there. But i think they just felt that he was there because he had to, and that why they turned their backs on him. Hes gotten better with the police. This gist my opinion. Think hes gotten better withh the police because he knows he has. S. To new york city would you could just imagine what it would be like without the cops. Its so much better than the old days, and he node he knows that, and because of politics he has to be better with the that police. Everybody knows that what improvements were made. So i think he is doing it because he has to, and then that just my opinion. About what the commissioner, bill bratton, ray kelly . I dont know either one of them personally, but its difficult to say. Like, bill bratton now is feel like hes the right guy nor job. With all the anticop sentiment around the country and in new york, he just when i see him on television, i feel like he is the wright guy for the job at this time, and when he was commissioner first time, thats when the whole broken window thing started and then ray kelly became the pc and then they ran with it and just kept going and going and crime kept going downh who is better i wouldnt say who is better, but i would say that ray kelly did a great job, and as a cop when i would see him on the news, we had somee Police Commissioners in the back that i wasnt crazy but when i would see him, made proud. This represented the Police Department well. Now that bratton is there i think he has very difficult job with a warm that i dont know what his relationship is with the mayor become im sure he as kick job and i just thing he is the right guy for the job right now. O your back to your book. Thank you. No i know you did your research with you life but i know me. Rid play tricks on yourself itch imagine you had to go back to Police Report inside order to get the details little bett correct and that kind of thing and what was it like to revisitt the reports and revisit to the stories . How was that for you . Before writing a book my. Train was writing Police Reporta sod that why knew and i realmy bread an effort to make sure the that the facts were as best i could remember them. Sometimes i went back back to te escape where it happened and mike or my distances but i really tried to be as accurate as possible. Sometimes i even called my old partners and said, do you remember the . Escape i wrote a couple of of my stories i, i ask them could do you remember it the same way die . And the dade. In court you have to have your paper Work Together and your testimony together. If we see car accident or if we see a homicide, we view it slightly different. I get all they ever yeared didnt realize but when i saw these things i was look togethea story behind that, and so the always be slightly different views. Like sometimes we would get involved some crazy caper, and somebody gets shot, and the next day you have slightly different such outside. What happened ha because you approached it from different amping. Ed bit did any homecoming burk and went back and tried to make it as accurate as possible. I notice that you were going to be writing for some tv episodes. Hopefully. Ly. Im a great fan of blue blood and i wonder if you might comment about the authenticitiy. My loves it balls of tom sell electric sellic, and they take current cases and talk about current evented but its television. What wanted to wanted to wantede always want to turn my book into a script. I think it works well. Rk like Network Television youys cant always say what you said and cant always show what you really show. So gets watered down a little bit but its pretty good. My mother will aggrieve with agree with you. She loves it. 9 11 and the aftermath, a lot of storied about the lingeringf effects of that on First Respond erred emotionally and maybe particularly physically. Just wonder if you oar some of your part anywheres are still living with that . Yeah. And guys are getting sick. It is true. I was one of the lucky ones. When on the morning of 9 11 i woke up and getting reddy to good to work and i turned on the nut and i see smoke coming out of the upper floors and then as im watching the second plane hits. She starts crying. She starts screaming, and im holding her and watching this and im like, i got to get to work. Everybody else that had a normal husband with a normal job they were racing them to be with their family to be wife their wives. Im hugging my wife. Ry shes crying into my chest. My shirt is wet with tears, and buggers and im holding on to her and all i could think of was negotiate go to work. And i remember her looking up at me and saying des used to me leaving her. Et i gate get a phone call at night, i dont come back into the next day. It wasnt aitch timed aisle working 1 20 12 and i told he i would be back in at while andnd wed catch a shooting and i didnt leave until the next day. So she was used to being alop but she says, please dont leave me. Not this time. And i told her, i says, you understand, have to go. Right . You understand. And she knew i was going. She was just trying to just venting. She was going to be left alone to have to deal with is by herself. And i left her there. I left her standing at the door, crying, while i jumped in the car doing 90milesanhour with the redlight on the dashboard, listening to the rateow, and im racing down there on the radio and im racing down there at the time i was a lieutenant in the gang squad and had 50an detectives and sergeants working for me. Nuance we went down there it would be a madhouse. We lad to stick together as a unit because if we didnt, if we got separated we wouldnt find each other for a days. So, one of my sergeants was my righthand man. I admit it, 5d administratively, im more reason. One of my a more ron. But one modify sergeants ick lice the energizer bunny. So i had him on the phone and im like, when are you going to be at the office . O i says im not leave without you. Im calling the guyed in office get all the equipment we need. As soon as possible i get theret were jumping into cars. So i got to the office, got everybody together, and he was other few minutes late, he or girlfriend was a nurse or something and he had drop her off so he was 15 torn minutes 1520 minutes but i wouldnt leave until he got there then off we go the second building came down right before the got there so if he wasnt late we probably would have ran in therr like everybody else. And i guess its hard to explain how you feel down there. I think more than anything, i felt helpless. Because as a cop, when you see something really bad, the way you find closure is you find the person that did it, you arrest them, they go everybody and to away and we find out that the individuals who did this were all dead and the individuale responsible for it were in a cave oversead. At number city cops there was nothing we could do about it and i felt kind of helpless those days. All we could do was dig for rubble dig through rubble and pick up rye mains and process remains. So, that was the overwhelming feeling but i also felt privileged because i know that everybody in the country wanted to be down there helping, and i was able to do it. I had the ability to go downwn there and help my city, my country, and i think that the way mentally i got through it. Felt privileged to be there. [applause] im from philadelphia. The home of frank rizzo who went from beat cop to the mayor of philadelphia. Lphia, and kind of have a Public Service announcement for savannah. Tion in appreciation of the police force. My wife and our daughter, 26yearold daughter, took the 13 week civilian Police Academy training here, and each week there would be two different departments that would tell you what they do. And when the 12th week we did ride are alongs with several different everies and theres two of the most dangerous situations, like a Domestic Violence call and a car stop. Which i did a domestic and all my wife did a car stop. We actually got out of the cars, through a safe distance away but we now understand and appreciate what police do. So that it really should be a civic duty for all citizens, and i know you know that. But a rookie starts at 37,000 a year. To put his life on the line. Do you have a question . You mentioned all the police get a bad rap for what little is might happen but the thousands of cases that arent appreciated. Back to your 37,000. You dont take this job for the money. That not dish mean, as you go up in the ranks you do better, better benefits, good pension, but you dont take the job for the movement you take it because its a calling. Theresing . At your heart that tells you this is what you want to do, and that why you take it. [applause] in the introduction she said you never shot your gun we over in found out howe that game about. I always walked in busy playsessed, and people askedou you, ever shoot anybody . And when i tell them no, they seem disappointed. Like, what were you doing for 20 years . But the fact is its like 98, 99 of cops never fire their weapon in the line of duty. But i can tell you this, at least a half a dozen guys that are still Walking Around where i was actually pulling the trigger. It got to the point where they were going, and at the last possible second, they dropped the gun, or i had a situation i had several situations where i went to go stop a guy. Like a stop and frisk. And when i put the guy on the car, he reaches reaches reachess waistband, so i reach into his g waistband, and hes good at gun and he got it first heel. Got a the gun in his hand and the guy was big. His showereds over my head. There was another guy with him who had a knife. And all of a sudden im in the fight for money life. I couldnt shoot him. Were fighting for the gun and i picked him up and swinging him back and forth. I thought about letting guam and going for my gun, but theres no way. Never would have got it out in time. M so im fighting with this guy and the only thing i could think about was, if you cant breath, you cant fight. That the first rule of fighting. So i started yanking on his fists that were right here in the solarplex. Er, giving him a crazy heimlichim maneuver and the other guy who had the knife is trying to work around and wants to stab me in the book but not 100 committed because he knows where this thing is going. Hes not 100 sure he wants to kill a cop. So that worked to my advantage, and im swinging this guy back and forth and yanking and pulling and hes yep king and yelling, and i finally got the gun and hit him in thehe head and stunned him. But at that point i didnt feel it was necessary itch had the gun, i had him down. And another time within to go lock up the wimpy little stockbroker. Thought he would answer the door with a pocket protest protecter. He answers the dive with a. 380 in his hand and the only thing i could do was jump him. And him and i go falling down to the floor, who cops with me, all rolling around on the floor and we got the gun from himself. Our online shoot somebody if its absolutely necessary, and everybody has a line in the sand where, when somebody cross that youre going do it. And i knew where my line was. And it got very close. At least a half or more times but each time i always felt like i didnt have to do it, and i didnt. And that includes several thousand arrests i was involved in. [applause] thank you very much. And thanks for having me in savannah. [applause]emen, ladies and gentlemen, how about this guy . One more decent round of applause. [applause] [inaudible conversations] the next booktv program, policing, is Elizabeth Hinton, he booking from the war on poverty to the war on crime. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] hieveryone. Thank you for joining us today. On. After which well have a book signing right here at this table. We have copies of from the war on poverty to the war on crime for sale at the registers in the next room. Were very pleased to have cspan be booktv here taping todays event. When asking questions in the q a, please know that youll be recorded, and please wait for the microphone to come to you before asking your question. As always, todays title is 20 off. Its part of how we say thanks for buying books from harvard bookstore. Your purchases insure the future of an independent bookstore, so thank you. And finally, just a quick reminder to silence your cell phones. And so now im very pleased to introduce todays speaker, Elizabeth Hinton is assistant professor in the department of history and the department of african and africanamerican studies at harvard where her research focuses on poverty and racial inequality in the 20th century. She is coeditor of the book the new black history revisiting the second reconstruction, and her essays and articles have been published in the journal of american history, the journal of urban history and time. Today shell be discussing her
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