Programs aimed exactly as you are suggesting. Let me try to get some others in. Okay. Go ahead. A lot of other people want to say something. When i was i was growing up there were no outreach programs no outreach programs. Today every organization i belong to has an outreach program. I do think there is Civic Engagement. University the Aspen Institute the portrait gallery, everyone has an outreach program. Why do you say there is no Civic Engagement . Well, i dont want to be badmouthing outreach programs, but we used to do it without calling you. Most of us are no longer doing outreach. I dont mean formal outreach a the little old lady with her fur coat and for had. My black us may down to the high school. The mind boggles. She wouldve never said im doing outreach. She was is helping one of the kids in town. You. You know in a way that was a more formalized way of trying to make up for the fact that we used to do this a ton more. Yes, right there in the aisle. Thank you. Could you talk a little bit about the role of external that of external organization like mentors and so on and so forth but actually families and working with them on family engagement. Right. The person next to you. Yes. Im sorry. Yes. Im sorry. I should have i should not have omitted that. I agree very much. Parental coaching programs of which partnership is the most well tested. There are others. There are some proven examples. Those world. And those are good and needed. Head start worker not. An important part of the answer is a worked much better if combined with our rates of the parents and coaching of the parents to programs of the sort you are describing. Thank describing. Thank me for reminding me i omitted that. I was wondering if you found anything unique to the immigrant community or the immigrant experience in essence of how they help each other out. A splendid to the tillman right there in front of you. Yes. Firstgeneration immigrants controlling for where they are economically have a much more stable and structured family architect. Thats the good news. The not going to go into all the great general immigrant groups. A little more traditional american family. You know ozzie and harriet. The good news. The bad news is one generation. Assimilation occurs in good ways. Of the advocate. They still them. I like the idea of assimilation. This is one area which assimilation is not such a great thing. The elegant families become more like the rest of us. In the way back. So i am curious about the role of technology. Technology. He talked about the cant academy being a platform younger, less educated lower income people using social platforms. Are you engaging are you engaging are can you talk about the bright spots turned wise . Bright spots were trendlines, Something Like facebook increasing the number of people going out to vote. Can can you talk about some of the social Technology Companies bringing in ways to close some of these scissor issues . Well, maybe your more aware of those and i am actually. I know of course, but a lot of the ways in which social media are changing our lives the exploration of social websites and social media. By far the most often question im asked. So i thought a lot about how the internet does and does not. There are many ways it does. Now i am focus not on the good or bad for building effective social relations but is in narrowing the gap. Frankly, i do not know of any website or major at that is specifically devoted to narrowing the gap. The reason i think that is important is in the background, even facebook i have friends on facebook a few of whom i have actually i have actually never met but most of whom i know in real life. And so my relationship via facebook is a kind of a combined real facetoface connection in the internet based connections. These poor kids these poor kids are so isolated from any realworld facetoface connections. That is, i think, the challenge. The challenge. I dont think that a purely virtual, purely virtual at is going to solve real problems. The more creative questions they asked him are there ways in which we can create a new kind . Very soon mary sue is on facebook. She is. You could try to figure out how we build on that to make an alloy that includes reallife support. This gentleman here. I we will come back. You have it. Sorry. You talk about the scissor graphs that show the divergence of the bottom 3rd of top 3rd. More recently there has been a lot of attention from Thomas Becket he and others about a scissor developing between the 80 80 percent of the 20 percent. There are people who go to committee college and get for your degrees is still dont improve the Economic Standing in nursing a bigger i wonder if you look at this and one of the reasons this is happening as robotics in Computer Technology advance for more of these relatively highly skilled jobs are being done by machine. That that trend is likely to accelerate. When you look at that what prospects does that offer for people trying to make it and improve there understanding . From my. Of view, correct me if i misunderstand your question the demand shifting the educational income hierarchy. And you probably no that the famous economy. Going way up on the top. Pretty simple manual. Thats what economists describe. My my job is actually not focused on the demand side. Much more focused on the supply side of various kids. Then. Then i have to say it is the major cleavage for the one that i describe. Coming from woefully uneducated homes in the sky for high school educated homes. People are coming from some college. You have to worry about the economics of the demand side of the problem. But even if we solve that problem was still would have the supply side and im focused on. Endowing all of our kids with. Then is what i focused on. Im going to make this the last question and then we will have time for everyone to cluster around get votes signed. Thank you very much. Thank you for opening up what i think is a very critical topic. A real political disconnect. We talked about the culture of life during the bush and ministration. It seems to me in these political times that life seems to end at birth for a lot of people. You know we dont want to give them birth control, we dont want to have abortions. When they come into the world we dont want to feed them clothing, proper healthcare. My son is a fifthgrade teacher. A high minority population and says, dad, its hard to teach these kids make hungry such a great disadvantage. Absolutely grateful that you have opened this up. Maybe we will get some intellectual capital going here. Thank you very much. And you may use that as your closing platform. I am grateful to all of you. I hope that we will get some agreement. I think it is a terrifically big problem and also a terrifically big opportunity make america a more proactive, more democratic better place to live. So really important. Unique opportunity for. Robert putnam, thank you very much. What i did i did was tried to assess each of the 17 crises on two axes. The 1st was how bold the president s response was cautious or bold on the horizontal and whether it was successful on a longterm or a longterm failure and and plotted them based upon my analysis sort of made a really grades. Rather than a b c, d c d, i tried to put them in the corporate quadrant. None of us would agree exactly where this one to go you can probably agree. It was cautious. And then appear the cautious successes and over here are the bold successes both of which have an on the and in these are the bold failures. The bottom line caution succeeds more often than aggressive response. And and so people respect to have people the final obama to be timid or going against history and crisis management. You can watch this and other programs online booktv. Org Zephyr Teachout is the director of corruption in america. Certain involvement in howard deans campaign. Brandon garrett is the author of too big to jail. Uva law professor. His research on our criminal Justice System has raised from the lessons to be learned were cases where an were and did have a recipe for exonerated to his more recent interesting corporate crime. Articles in the New York Times and everywhere. And our final author is Charles Lewis the book 935 lies. Bestselling author of many, many books from his years at the center for Public Integrity National Investigative journalist has been a National Investigative journalist for many years. Now a professor of journalism at the American University in washington. I will has ever start out. Enjoy. Thank you all for being here. Good morning. My book is called corruption in america. It is not a history of the corruption in america. [laughter] if it were i would be much older than i am now. Rather is a history of what corruption has meant in american law. So so you might use the word corruption think about what it would mean if you are a juror in a case any have to decide whether a gift was given corruptly or not. And i actually think that within corruption and the language of corruption there is a whole bunch of different theories embedded. Your theory about your theory about what corruption means implies it. What democracy means. Your theory about what corruption means has implications for what you think a person is whether you think a person is capable of serving public good what you think a person is necessarily egotistical and selfserving. The book began in 2007 when i i read a Supreme Court case were Justice Roberts that kind of an patient. The defense was arguing that corruption meant Something Like something broad like when those in Public Service are serving providence. He said enough is enough. He use that language. Corruption is quid pro quo. It was not actually as important for that case but it was an interesting question. The Supreme Court seems to have a peculiar conception of what corruption means. I want to figure out what it is meant historically. In some ways the writing was on the wall. Mccutchen versus sec. Once the once the Supreme Court has decided that corruption only meant great brockwell and explicit exchange they could no longer looked complacently on laws, campaignfinance laws which have previously been about and did not serve anticorruption purpose. My investigation led me back to the Constitutional Convention. The Constitutional Convention the talked about they talked about corruption what they talked about almost anything. Madison familiar to those of you in the neighborhood you can see madisons notes of the convention. He use convention. He used the word corruption are corruptly 54 times are now. On almost every single topic having the senate should be. A the question i would that be more or less likely to lead to corruption. It was not quid pro quo bribery. It did not into the lexicon to the 1970s. There were no bribery laws. The corruption was what elected officials serve their own interest instead of serving other interests. So one of the big topics of the convention was what they called the problem of policeman. People who would go into elected office in order to get appointed by the king to some nice sinecure. Of course i think we have a problem placement now going to elected office to later become lobbyists. Over 50 percent of congressman now go on to become lobbyists. Arguably not for the king that for private interest because people tend to serve the future master as well as the present one. So i found that i want to make sure i am get on time. There is so much to tell you. So the 1st 3rd of the book, and i wont go into details showing how much the best parts of our founding are tied up in a real anxiety about the ways in which those in public power can start to become selfish and greedy. And they have a theory of a person which i share all we are capable of being public oriented and capable of being privately warranted. The job of law is to encourage the public spiritedness and to discourage and tatian. So having just to be clear, i am a very serious patriot a Langston Hughes patriot. Langston hughes and one of his more beautiful palms says let america be america again. America was never america to me. Let it be the dream and dream mainstreamed. A mainstreamed. A Langston Hughes theory is not that the founders were perfect. They were terrible on race, terrible and gender. There is no golden age. Rather there are seeds of something are caesar something very powerful in the founding of this democracy, and we should honor that and pull out the best parts of our history to make the best possible future and let america be america again. After this after this ambitious founding to root out all of the temptations to erect as one founder said, every practicable obstacle to corruption what happened . Well, immediately justice well, immediately Justice Marshall said corruption has crept into our early republic. And there were real questions about how to deal with corruption a lot. The real problems that have been ongoing questions, what do you do with half of legislatures bribes to pass a law . Is that not a lot is that one out a lot because it was passed corruptly . Is it a lot because we in the court cant figure out what is a corruptly past line or isnt . Another of the great public set us so as to provide a hundred years s what do you do with lobbying . Lobbying is corrupt. Against the Public Policy of the United States. States. A felony in georgia felony in california. They had been an old man he hired a lawyer. The lawyer get his money back the contracts you cant enforce by can enforce by contrast to sell sex or babies or organs. Because as i said, there is no evidence of bribery. Great corporations of our day or higher and they will make the case the statehouses. And every rightthinking man would call after out. So that gradually fades away shakespeare and 30 seconds version of American History now in the 1970s, 1976. Bricktown limits on Campaign Spending. In the last four years we had that fight no whether congress can pass what Congress Considers anticorruption laws. The court especially in the last ten years havent striking have been striking them down because the court says they are not anticorruption laws. Limits on Campaign Spending or not anticorruption laws. Limits in limits in some cases on contributions are not anticorruption laws be as this court believes that there is only one thing corrupt, quid pro quo, fairly explicit bribery. I think the i think the house is on fire in terms of our democracy. There are a lot of different ways we can respond. My response is to say both as a a letter to the court and letter to ourselves that fighting corruption is one of the best parts of the american tradition and we should on that. Really as opposed war of independence fight and probably one of the most difficult fights that we will ever be involved in. Thank you. [applause] hello, everyone. Thank you for being here. Perfect to be in the government chamber. Pure and pure and free from corruption is any government body can be. Already booked. [laughter] special and a little odd to be speaking in the place where elected officials speak. A special place to be here with you all. My book is called too big to jail. Office of the attorney general. That fades away. Eric holder looking very stern. There is no such thing as too big to jail. A very very serious voice. I guess i should i should call off the book. [laughter] so the concerns that i described my spent many years collecting data on corporate prosecution. Attorney general holder has told us that those concerns concerns, wherever they are a purely imaginary. I am sorry command i we will i we will check its over to check. [laughter] i actually gave him a copy of my earlier book. What happened in the cases of people exonerated by dna. None of those were federal cases. All the people free by dna were in state court not federal court. This project is all about federal cases. I we will wait until holder is out of office to try to give my copy of it. What he then said that his message manon was that no Financial Institution is about prosecution in this country that was actually a helpful thing for them to say because immunity from prosecution at what time of we come to what it is important for the atty. Gen. To tell us that banks are not immune from prosecution . That does not dispel any number of other concerns were might have but im not just banks but other types of companies are prosecuted. I think there is a whole family of too big to jail concerns. I thought my title was creative. It turns out it was not at all. Lots of people have been using it. Actually, a lot of people started 1st using the too big to jail catchphrase about a case that holder was kind of responding to in this video message, the case called hsbc a bank headquartered in england. England. If you go a few years farther back to 2009 they were hearings in the United States senate before the Subcommittee Department of subcommittee on investigations chaired at the time by sen. Carl senator carl event. A shame he decided not to run for office because he did remarkable things as chair of that subcommittee. They had the head of hsbc Compliance Program. A Compliance Program is not necessarily a a lawyer responsible for making sure that the law is followed. The head of compliance is there in the 1st thing he doesnt exist down is says basically i think its good for everyone to know that i quit. I have resigned my position. It will help the big move forward. Thank you very much. Why did he resign on the floor of the senate . Well, hsbc was under investigation for the largest largest pattern of Money Laundering, sanctions violations money flowing to terrorists places terrorists, places where money should not be going in a grand scale. Apparently mexican drug cartels assigned proxies to put cash into the precise specification so that they could quickly throw the cash and the window. Billions of dollars making its way up the mexican. In levines committee they subpoenaed 1. 4 million pages of documents produced an enormous report which is fascinating to read the toward the back there are lots of emails of different employees. The prior head of compliance was saying, look, we only have a couple dozen employees to look at transactions across a lot of money different banks. We just dont have the staff good to here. You are fired. Terrible emails. Dont you know that hamas is a list of terrorist organization. Terrible stuff coming out of the regulators who knew about these problems but then see as the job to nothing about the problems on the ground. And what happened was during this the Money Laundering type of violations going on there was immediately and department of justice investigation in the case ends up getting broader nation district of new york. Now, the question would be well, well, could you prosecute the bank and what would happen . When way that the us is different than just about any country in the world we do have on paper the strictest standard for corporate criminal liability it exists. One that was approved in 1909 case reshaping the physical landscape of our country. Railroads to violate the law with impunity you know, where would there be accountability . Of course Companies Need to be held accountable criminally. That is a strict standard. Its not something totally unrelated. The company is also accountable for the crime that because the company itself committed the crime but because it is responsible and has to pay the fine. Companies obviously cannot literally be put in jail. But the companies responsible for the companies will have to pay. If employee committed Money Laundering Money Laundering is treated very seriously. Very very broad my ongoing offenses. There is a Real Estate Broker is someone drives up with a goldplated cadillac and says i reflective paper some houses the cash and the broker knows your not supposed to accept more than 10,000 cash and just says oh, sure. I would like some houses with quite secretive well padded basements, anything with the firing range of the useful actually. The broker would have enough reason reason to think of that this may be someone up to something illicit and the broker could be on the hook for Money Laundering and spent decades in prison. In in the broker is an even like the mexican drug cartels. The brokers interest is only in selling houses and making a mess commission. Still can absolutely be prosecuted for my laundering. For Money Laundering. The bank is convicted the bank is automatically supposed to have charter revocation proceedings loses charter. The financial penalty, those kind of consequences this of the big deal. What companies are worried about is the regulatory consequences of a conviction people like People Like Us if convicted may lose the right to vote. If i was convicted i might be disabled from practicing law. Doctors doctors if convicted may lose the medical license relicensing for a company is more important. If a bank is not chartered a cannot do business. If an Accounting Company can do work with public is because the crime that they can do its business. Hsbc was in charge of my on. A Money Laundering case of a skill grander than anyone had seen before. Charged as to violations of the Bank Secrecy Act which is a lot of Money Laundering related requirements that you have a good a good Compliance Program to take moneylaundering, stuff like that. Basically they were charged with more technical crimes which did not involve the loss of their charter because the prosecutor did not want to destroy the bank, bank they want to fix it was really is a good thing. Some nasty people who apparently were approving proving these violations were many years, but good people. Maybe you dont want to destroy the bank. Fine. But the bank enters is a deferred prosecution agreement. What that meant what that meant was the bank were not exactly prosecutable. It would not have a criminal record. What i noticed when i started collecting data i have a big were turned into a corporate offender registry i maintain it with the university of Virginia Law Library for over 2,000 is convicted of different federal crimes since 2,001 a few hundred companies that have gotten these outofcourt deals. Oh, so if you companies joke or deals, but it tends to be the biggest companies, the public companies, the Multinational Companies that dont get a conviction no judgment if they dont follow it there is no breach of probation. Instead it is a deferred prosecution. If you are lowlevel juvenile the judge message a stake is taking for a year and we we will dismiss the charges in the case will go forward. Not exactly just a warning. Good behavior for five years they paid a big fine. 1. 9 billion and agreed that they would hire a monitor to supervise approving these of the bank. People started to really raise too big to jail concerns because not a single employee was prosecuted. No one was in no one has sense. The bank agreed the bank agreed to fully cooperate in any investigation. No employees are prosecuted. People on both sides of the aisle started as a this applies to the bank. It paid enormous fine but we dont no whether it has changed and no people were held accountable. And apparently the bank is not complying that well either. No conviction, but this is still a case filed in the courthouse. I want to know what has been happening. The bank is still there are real problems. Now the bank may be recidivist. The biggest week the biggest Bank Whistleblower of alltime shows that hsbc was helping all sorts of taxpayers evade taxes and switzerland. Those investigations are not fully gone forward if true that that was occurring is the same time as this other stuff id mean they would be recidivist except they dont have a crawl record. So what would be the consequence . Unclear. Unclear. I just want to describe that as a highprofile example of the concerns that many have with the lack of criminal accountability ends of the biggest corporate crimes and he was never heard of. Companies are paying bigger pfizer we never saw before. Whenever some billiondollar corporate find a decade ago. They can brag about having body and bigger corporate pfizer never know. Whether this is a good form of accountability with no individual people held accountable remaining and peter what changes are being made is anything improved, do they really poor crime a lot of too big to jail concerns remain. The atty. Gen. Has told us that we should get over it and it does not exist. Thank you. [applause] welcome. It is a pleasure to be here. We clearly have troublemakers panel. [laughter] we could talk for about a week away ourselves. Did the buying of the president. Yeah. Its true. And we just did the hsbc secretly material on the in france. A network of a hundred and 85 journalists and 60 countries. They started looking at the same data across all. Very exciting. That is affirming an exciting. Much of what were talking about is depressing, but once in a while you like you find the truth and it is exciting. For years i have been doing things like follow the money and i still do. Around the investigative around the investigative workshop at American University and we investigate all kinds of things. Frontline documentaries. But this book is why we are here. My book i worked on for nine years, three manuscripts, to publishers and a partridge in a pear tree. It was quite an ordeal. I became obsessed i should not use that word basically i was obsessed with the false statements that were just flying by and no one paying attention. Most investigative reporters dont Pay Attention to what politicians say. But generally speaking anyway, i notice that it finally got to me at the end of 2004. I was stepping down. At some time the founder needs to leave the building i decided i was astonished by a a poll that said that 60 percent of the American People still believe there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq even though the pres. Himself with part of the said there actually were no weapons there to make knowledge that publicly. Wait a minute. 60 dont really care what the truth is. The facts were irrelevant. It disturbed me because i had ignore the statements all these years looking at documents and i decided i better start looking at what they say and how they use Public Relation firms and all this other stuff. Being an analretentive researcher at eight or nine researchers look for two and half years for 380000 were database of all of the false and erroneous statements from september 11 until two years later. A top a top officials, and we found 935 false and erroneous statements which are other words for. And of course its outrageous. Who said the most and when did they say it. It was coordinated. A particular times the lead up to the congressional incidentally. They all come out the same day. Very carefully coordinated. Related powells speech before the un. When the statements when the statements were made. That is all very interesting. That is a case where it is pretty clear. We went in on basic false pretenses. We can talk about that for a couple years but theres only eight or nine moments. The book is only a few pages really. Then i felt the need of course am a student of history like many. I felt the need to go back and look. Certainly this is not the 1st time we have been a little off on the facts and find out later. So i started going really in a detailed fashion all the way back to mccarthy. 200. 200 communists in the state department. Turns out there was never one. Dont get me started. We come to the obvious one well, there were two. There was a journalist covering race. A Major National a Major National media outlet covered race until the mid 50s and i covered some of that. I have a chapter about race and language and when journalists discover the truth about things the vietnam war from 60 to 75 is, of course a horrific case. We we dont find out the truth really until 1970. We still dont know the complete truth. We only found out 2,005 from the nsa that there was no 2nd attack. We began a war resolution that passed within less than a week. We. We had been violating the air men and why space bar months. We did not find out to the pentagon papers in 1971. Been bradley would say, what would happen if we had known the truth in 1964 instead of 1971 . 1971 . I think a lot of things mightve changed. I dont know. Anyway, i went through all these things. The one that is most egregious i also like the Corporate Information not just government. We started looking to the tobacco industry. In the 20th century hundred Million People lost their life for smoking. In this century will be a billion people. And that is and that is the World Health Organization numbers. Why . Because we have exported tobacco consistently from jimmy carter to barack obama as us trade representative have been a consultant for Philip Morris. Reply open free markets around the world. The companies now offloaded the growing. The Industrial Production and the marketing to children all over the world. Exponentially going to increase the number of deaths command we are still doing it as we speak. Promote trade. Anyway, so then i continuing this of sisyphus was trying to be somewhat the room i looked at ten years of the biggest misrepresentations by us officials. Obviously watergate, vietnam, the ones we just heard. They are they are all listed. You can go and look deeply at all. I look at the misrepresentation that was made. I like i like it when the epiphany 1st occurs the public often official acknowledgments. And then where were the journalists . In the journalists actually were frequently nowhere to be found. They were taking they were taking in massive sums of money from 1971 until the end of the 90s. They took and 12 billion in ads from the tobacco industry. The newspapers and magazines no one won the Pulitzer Prize of the poor quarter enemies or any of the great awards for tobacco coverage. Funny how that works. Im sure is entirely coincidental. There is there is a part of the book that is rather searing and my own profession. I told the real story not for the for the world. Turning our anything about what happened inside 60 minutes, why i quit, walked away. Must i was being censored. A particular name was being taken out for all the wrong reasons. But i talk about moments when the media has been reluctant to do the kind of reporting should do. You know there are classic stories not original to my own reporting being basically for stuff the airways in the 50s. Classic story that has been told frequently but what i do with tobacco is look from 1940 all the way to 2,000 and i show i show approximately ten cases of censorship in the media as recent as the 1990s when journalists and abc and cbs two tv shows abc, one at cvs well strongarmed and censored by their bosses to make more money because they wanted to sell. Afraid of litigation. One documentary was going to track the export of tobacco on planet earth they filmed on four continents. They Philip Morris protestant billiondollar lawsuit that same day the producers of this other film coming soon suddenly are told, you know we have a problem with your documentary. We need to have a talk and rework it. Of course that was the beginning of the end. They wanted all of his notes and materials and he never gave it to them. That is how we know about what happened next. So my book really tried to look at im still very interested in all the subjects. Corruption and the things were talking about. The part that i decided i also had to Pay Attention to was the impunity with which people just good oldfashioned line and do it repeatedly and get away with it. That is irritating and significant and seismic in terms of implications because there is no inability for what people actually say and frankly obviously for what you just heard of what they do. That is that is the serious problem in a democracy. I we will stop there. Thanks. [applause] okay. We have got about 20 minutes to take questions. I we will try and get to as many as we can. In the interest of accommodating everyone have asked that your questions be short and to the. And only generalinterest questions. They will they will come around with the microphone. This is being recorded for later broadcast on cspan. I think maybe Public Access as well. Thanks to them in the city of charlottesville for use of the site. Does anyone have a question . Thank you. I have a couple of recommendations for reading. Mr. Lewis, have you read day of deceit to mac. I have not. Check into that. It goes back pretty far. Dr. Teachout, what doctor teachout, what a wonderful name not a dr. A lawyer. He had a jd. Is that considered an accurate . A tremendous thing about american corruption in tammany hall, George Washington plunkett who give us the concept of honest graft and dishonest graft. You have read that i help. Okay. I hope. Okay. So my question will be for all three of you and relates it affects to the future. Mr. Lewis in his book is laid out the possibility of electronic journalism. Get to a short direct question. Electronic journalism is being the ability to expose all this corruption. Im asking you you, people in our reading books agrees to. Is there a way and i try to approach or something we can begin to talk about the corruption in the soundbite in the Bumper Sticker that america wants . You guys want to jump in. A really great question. We lost one 3rd of all professional reporter since 2,000 and 104 or five times more puerto rico people and journalists. Yet people are more inclined to do the electronic thing. Folks over 50 were still watch tv news. A very strange dichotomy about who consumes news in which ways of it all and how to make it palatable for the largest possible audience is not my expertise. I am mostly teaching how to do it. I think we are at a sea change moment. Exciting and electric. Electric. We do stories around the world and seconds. The power of that is awesome i wish more people were seeing it then do now. One difference, there is the ability to share Information Online in a way where people can add to it or comment on it and used it in different ways. Long before i thought about writing a book about corporate prosecutions after collecting information and deferred prosecution agreements and putting them online as a resource. About 2500 corporate prosecution agreements. Lawyers is because there trying to negotiate something they want to see what other companies at. Its valuable for them to be able to do is also valuable for researchers to see which companies were prosecuted for full on bribery, environmental violations a lot of discomfort with criminal offender registries for individual people but i but i feel less uncomfortable with the idea of shaming companies that committed crimes. The moral the moral character is different. One of my goals was to make available as electronic resource all this information about corporate crime. Ive been maintaining that for ten years now. You can share information in a way that you cant in the book. He can create interactive resources. The people find them . Thats a different challenge get the word out but i think there are interesting new opportunities that these electronic resources create. You can do things you cant in a book. No question that whatever possible Better Future we have will be online. To to me that is not the core question. The core question is how power is attributed and that if you want to build a society where at least some people are telling the truth its a way in which we are all deeply connected. Telling a similar stories of concentrated power a society on big pro trust buster is a lot more decentralized economic power you actually of more companies my support support different news interests surges comcast. More decentralized more decentralized power to support a more decentralized is industry. So i like of the internet and the power behind. Let me ask a quick ball. Why do you think citizens in a more outraged as they hear some of these things. A lot of expression of outrage lies in a sense of power so that you express rage when you feel like is a chance you can do something about it. I think having more chuck might not like this but oldfashioned populist ranks expressing that power, in some ways legitimizing that rage these people have a silent rage or silent anxiety. You see a lot of rich from the tea party because people feel like they are out of power. The reason is because of the government. A lot less legitimate as it is in a handful of corporations to take power. Or take power. I just think the rage is like a Sleeping Giant and can wake up. Do you think people are actually paying attention to issues of corporate accountability more . Good reason because some large institutions almost destroy the World Economy and people have a sense of just how close to the brink a Global Economy came and how little has changed since maybe 20 years ago our background nervousness and fear nuclear war. Now some fast internet trade will go haywire and all of a sudden markets crash around the world. That may be paranoid but not completely given how close we came and structural protections can be relied on to prevent some kind of wall street type meltdown. People are paying close attention to what happens when a Major Company commits a crime for what happens when is a corruption scandal. To have those things happen is just reality called Human Interaction but we have a system that is corrupt and we dont want to help politicians so we continue. And not saying theyre not examples but. [laughter] that people have taser mindless Public Financing but the numbers are flipping there are still serious hurdles to get past. [laughter] data is public support for Public Financing an alltime high levels. So depressing. As you look ahead what d. C. How screwed are we . [laughter] can we predict the future. It comes from two sources echoes from imagining anions serious ally would feel in 1900. Give up. It the suffragists have been active for decades. The populist had been shouting down with monopolies they own the country lot stock and barrel of the presidency. In the organizing that happened in ways that we could not imagine that led to a middleclass flourishing through the civil rights era. I know that precise mechanism but is that we cannot give up. Because it is a response to the organizing that it isnt a perfect heir of the development from this type of organizing. And with no public outrage on the unprecedented scale. To be methodically a reported. How do you folks feel about the coverage and the short history . [laughter] we dont disagree ended is minimized looking at a big event with trade deals with that president ial convention in. As the protesters do. But they kept them away from the media. But now they will force be the person is a the hospital. There is an issue of how government handles protest to say it isnt all that happened it is more complicated. With there zero views of what there is about. And then it is hard to sit in the cold. There is no precedent that we are aware of it is exciting to see. Du you think that is effective . To make it is not easy to amend the constitution but that idea is a long shot over anything important. That to amend that constitution with Citizens United is effective . Sued his bold and dangerous we should talk about the Court Packing that is so deeply e out of touch with those anticorruption measures but it is easy for Congress Members to say they support a constitutional amendment because they have done their dirt blood dash clot dash they have done their duty. They should never be considered deficient every official should also support Public Financing which is currently allowed. To do with the currently could do. Citizens united have they talk about mandatory sentencing . [laughter] that is the flip side that corporate persons can be prosecuted. There is a provision for them to be sentenced so just to give back the process with said decent process. Big deal but it is very rare to see that provision never used. They often pay of fraction under the guidelines if at most a half to give back of profits not that they all commit the crime there are mitt mandatory minimums you would think there would have to do more than just to give back to profit. Brandons book has what it means for second demand rates we have time for one or two more quick questions. Did you know, that there were added retract their erroneous statements to set the record straight . There are some corrections in the paper that it could be nine page one with a few sentences. The biggest scandal since the 70s like plagiarism or stealing stories from other people
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