She did a lot of great things, and she also gave a lot of nutty advice and did some questionable things, and she was a complicated, you know, complex person. To the the result is, hope any, the complicated, complex portrait of her. And i think anyone who reads something about themselves has very mixed feelings about it. I would hate to read manager this long about myself something this long about myself. [laughter] [inaudible] and she never did like puff pieces [inaudible] and she liked a zippy read. [laughter] thanks, barbara. Anyway thats all we have time for. Thank you for coming, everybody. Lets give another round of applause for our authors. [applause] again, weve got plenty of books up at the register as well as wine. And hardboiled eggs. Just kidding. Laugh [laughter] [inaudible conversations] watching the nonfiction authors on booktv is the best its for serious readers. On cspan they can have a long or conversation and delve into their subjects. Booktv weekends, they bring you author after author after author that spotlight the work of fascinating people. I love booktv and im a cspan fan. Meg jacobs, its really a pleasure to get a chance to talk to you here at the carter center. I and also welcome the audience thats come out tonight to listen to our conversation. Meg jacobs is the author of panic at the pump the Energy Crisis and the transformation of american politics in the 1970s. Meg is a, teaches history and Public Affairs at princeton. Youve written, this is third or fourth book . Something like that. Something like that. You wrote a book i was interested in because were going to be talking about conservatives, liberals, but one of them is you were the coauthor of conservatives in power, the reagan years, 198189. Okay, interesting. Okay. Were going to talk a bit about conservative politics, and liberal politics for that matter too tonight. Let me, lets start with this, if we can. Okay. And you correct me. You have a thesis for this book. And ill let you describe it, obviously, but essentially what you argue in this book is that the two Energy Crises of the 70s, 73, 79 yeah. Essentially were part of and a major factor in the transformation of american politics, and among other things, made americans realize that perhaps government could not take care of them the way we had assumed for a long time and, thus, paving the way for a conservative revolution. Fair enough . Fair enough. Very good job. Thank you. [laughter] and thanks for having me here. That is, that is what i discovered in writing this. And its really, and it became a really interesting story, the way that all of the anger, the frustration as americans waited hours upon hours on gas lines during these two oil shocks really led to a transformation in how americans perceived their relationship to government, that government, in fact, could no longer take care of them, provide for them, guarantee them is access to the kind of lifestyle theyd been living and that really comes to a head in the summer of 1979 when people are just furious and blame washington, hold washington accountable. Well, of course, explore that in more depth as we move through our conversation. But, you know, some of the people who will listen to this, some of the people who are here have no recollection of what either of these crises were like. This was, in both cases, tremendously traumatic episodes in our contemporary history, werent they . Well, if you think about it, right, regardless of when you were born because i think this still holds true, if you ask americans what possession sort of best symbolizes, you know, your sense of, you know, of being an american, people would say the car, right . Its sort of long romance with the car. And, indeed, right up until the oil shock, right up until the Energy Crisis american cars were getting bigger and bigger and bigger. They were living rooms on wheels. And people felt a deep attachment. And now you take the car, this sort of symbol of progress, of american success, and now its become the opposite. Its a sign can and symbol of sign and symbol of weakness, of decline and decay as people wait for hours upon hours in these milelong gas lines. That, thats it. The gas lines were the most dramatic symbol of how americans had to rethink how we lived. And they were, i mean, i remember them quite well. I remember the fear that we had of driving with almost no gas left in our cars and hoping that we could get to a gas station that might have a short enough line that thered be gas left. It was really extraordinary. It was not the america that we thought we lived in. Well, i chose the title panic at the pump, its a praise that journalists and roars used at the time and reporters used at the time. And i thought it was really apt to call the book panic at the pump, because a that sense of pan panic, of pandemonium captured americans mindset at the time, and its interesting to think about why. The actual shortage of fuel was not overwhelming, did not in and of itself require a massive change in lifestyle, and yet americans reacted as if this was the end of the world as they had known it. And so this triggered a kind of behavior, a sort of paniclike behavior where as you describe, this sort of fear of running out. So people were driving around with a months supply of gasoline in their tanks rather than, you know, rather than in the ground which, of course, exacerbated the crisis. Well, the Energy Crisis of the mid or the continuing Energy Problems that led to a crisis at the end of the 70s had a major impact on the carter presidency as you talk about in great detail. Because were sitting here in the carter president ial library, we will get to a little bit more indepth conversation specifically about carter and what he experienced in trying to deal with the problems that he faced with energy. But lets back up. Okay. For a minute. You kind of bookend your book yes. With george h. W. Bush. Yeah. You open the book with george and barbara bush moving to odessa, texas, to do what . They go in search of oil and the american dream. So george h. W. Bush graduates from yale in 1948. He decides he doesnt want to follow in his familys footsteps and go to wall street, hes going to go search for his own fortune, albeit with some family connections, out in texas. And it really sort of captured what i was talking about a moment ago, this sort of sense of endless abundance, right . This is a moment of great discoveries in west texas, and he arrives at the right moment, and its there that hes going to seek his fortune and also helped to build the Republican Party which we can talk about too in texas. And so we start there before 1973 arab embargo, because i want to sort of capture what america, what American Culture was like, what expectations of the average american were like that sort of best represented by this freeflowing black gold that came out of the ground. And i end the book in 1991 after weve been through the emergency crisis which americans saw as a crisis of shortage, a crisis of scarcity, a crisis of dependence on foreign oil. And so the book ends with george h. W. Bush, the oil man, as president in the white house with the gulf war when americans go to secure the access of oil from the middle east. Fascinating story arc, actually. One of the things you point out is that in terms of searching for the american dream, when he and barbara arrive, they arrive in texas in, as you say, 48, and theyre the perfect time. Because theres been a huge, a discovery of a huge oil reserve. Yeah. This raybury trend . Yeah. So this was a promise that we made the right decision. We were going to make it big in the oil business. Yeah. And whats interesting and what then sort of sets the story in motion is when that appears to no longer be the case. So america had been the great energy producer, oil producer throughout the 20th century. It literally helped to fuel the growth of our economy, a sort of cardriven economy. But by late 1960, there was the sense that we had reached our geological peak of production, of domestic production. Lets back up even a little bit more because, you know, bush may have gone to the oilfields hoping that he would just been n oil man. But when youre dealing with oil in this country, you cant escape politics, and he learned that relatively quickly. Yeah. In 1954, you remind us, the the Supreme Court made an important ruling that would help trigger george bushs interest in getting involved politically in the production and distribution of oil. So the Supreme Court ruled that the government had the right, the ability to control natural gas prices. And natural gas and oil often come out of the same well in the ground. Theyre seen as interchangeable fuels in some instances, and so the fear and the concern of oil men like bush is that now the governments going to interfere across the board and control the price of oil too. And whats interesting about this Supreme Court decision is it comes out of this sort of new deal mentality that americans sort of have the right, as fdr said in 1932 when he was first running for president , that electricity is not a luxury, right . That americans have a sort of right to cheap and affordable energy, and americans sort of have that mentality, and it hadnt really been a problem until we start to have demands that exceed our supply. One of the important points that you make, excuse me, one of the important points that you make in the book is that we associate the new deal with roosevelt and the democrats but, in fact, the new deal infused a lot of republican thinking of the time as well. Federal government having a major role in helping people live better lives. Well, i think that we could see the period from the 40s, 50s on as a sort of consensus of that position. But then there were interesting people like george h. W. Bush who in response to the Supreme Court decision and then also to the Environmental Movement felt that the problem is too much government interference. And so bush quite deliberately and its an exaggeration to say singlehandedly but hes very instrumental in trying to build up the Republican Party in texas. And with the argument that its the Republican Party that supports free enterprise, and is so to actually increase our domestic supply, to make us secure that we have to sort of vote republican and remove all of these controls. And in this sets up a tension, a dynamic that will be at play throughout your entire book. Controls, deregulation, where do we get our oil from, domestic or foreign. And this plays out through the entire history of this period that youre writing about. Yes. One thing that we tend to lose sight of is that the new deal in some ways, that kind of mentality lived a lot longer than we remember. This sort of expectation that government will take care of us, and if all of a sudden theres a shortage and gasoline prices spike through the roof, well, then its governments job to do something about it. And that mentality is really still very much in play in the 1970s including when president carter has to deal with this problem in the summer of 1979. And it looked to me like a crucial moment came with the Energy Crisis. Of course the stories that sort of the disillusionment with washington started before so we have vietnam, of course, we have watergate, but i see those events playing out differently than the Energy Crisis. So, the argument essentially is that if vietnam and watergate taught americans they could not trust their political leaders, then the Energy Crisis demonstrated that washington didnt work. Lets walk through the crises. Wed look at the first crisis a little bit more quickly because we want to focus on our host here tonight, jimmy carter. By the way, we will, at a certain point, turn the microphones over to you, so if you want to think about questions you may want to ask. 1967, the arabisraeli war breaks out, and that is the first time that the arab states decide that perhaps they should Work Together to use oil as a pressure against americas involvement with israel. But they cant make it work at that point. Why not . Well, this is what the difference between 1967, when it ineffective, and 1973 when they are effective, is the changing situation in the global oil market. Its just at this moment that demand for energy is endless in the United States, so we make up about at that time a fifth five percent of the worlds population but we use Something Like you say 80 in the book . I think we use a third of the worlds energy. So five percent so, theres this growing demand as people move further and farther from where they work and drive more and more and expect all climates to be fully i. R. A. Air conditioned and thats a trop in supply, and its because of the changing situation that the arab producers understand they have more leverage in the marketplace. Even in the first arab israeli war, the fact that it was known that the arab states were thinking about using oil as a weapon woke some people up in the Political Leadership that we could not risk dependence on middle eastern oil. By 1970 you say opec was produces twice as much oil as the United States, so we were in a dangerous situation. And yet one that leaders are not fully aware of because the other thing that happened in this period, as sort of domestic decline supply declined is for the first time we become major importer of oil. So, in 1970, we dont import that much. By 1973, we import about a third of our oil needs. So, actually george h. W. Bush i thought maybe im wrong but i want to clarify, because if it isnt right i want them to be aware of it. He i thought h. W. Said war brought home the fact they free world could not risk dependence on foreign oil. So oilmen in this country hes this back and force character because he is in washington washington as a congressman. Theyre sounding the warning but no one is listening. Its not the political leaders. Its the oil interests. He is sort of there, republican voice from the south, and but no one is really listening, and so when the arab embargo comes in the fall of 1973, one of nixons advisers describes it as an energy pearl harbor. Comes as that much of a shock. Lets talk about that. Although we could say we in 1969, nixon is in office and we have the San Bernardino oil spill, horrendous Natural Disaster and forces nixon to subtly think about becoming a conservationist. True, and we could say that nixon did a lot for the Environmental Movement and he signed into law the National Environmental policy act, this sweeping piece of legislation, one that is impossible 0 imagine today russian talks about the coexistence between man and nature and nixon things this will boost is standing for this reelection battle in 72 and these are the pressures the oil industry is experiencing. So as theyre having to drill in sort of more remoter and harsher locales, theyre now perceiving themselves to be saddled with new regulations and this intensifies the crunch and theyre the first ones to talk about the crunch. Thank you for setting that up. Now we come to 1973, when you point out that the Energy Crunch really hit hard. The northeast, midwest, had tremendous shortages of heating oil. Yep. The arabisraeli war, the yom kippur war comes along, and this time the arab states say, yeah, we are going to use oil as a weapon and they announce an embargo. Right . Yes. So, in retaliation for the United States support of israel, the arab producers announce an embargo and also do another thing, which is even more consequential, they announce a cutback in production which will shrink the supply and allow them to do a massive price increase. So its the combination of a shortage and a surge in prices that americans are completely stunned by. What is the Nixon White House to do to respond to this . How do they decide first to act on this . Well, nixon was a good politician. He understood issues that resonated with voters. He understood this would be what his pollsters said was a gut level issue, and he is trying to figure out what to do, and is faced with a Democratic Congress, and the congress says, well, you know, lets ration, which is impossible to imagine today, and the 1970s are closer to the 1940s than they are to today, and rationing falls eight votes short in the senate and say, lets put lets roll back the prices at the pump, and these things actually happened, which is impossible for us to imagine today. But the sort of anger and even violence and sense of chaos on the gas lines is quite intense. So under pressure, nixon appoints the first ever energy czar, and as a reminder, there is no such thing as a department of energy because energy is not perceived to be something that we have to do anything about. We just have a lot of it so we dont have to do anything about it. So, there is no department of energy, and nixon appoints, under pressure, the first ever energy czar, William Simon, who is a sort of freemarket, wall street guy, but finds himself under pressure to make decisions like, which Public Events should go on as planned should we have the daytona 500 or maybe this year it should be the daytona 450. That was an actual conversation . An actual conversation. And decision. That he had to decide. So, you have so this really sort of elaborate intervention to deal with a sense of crisis from the gas lines. At the same time what was happening withinflation. I thought you were going to Say Something different. This is the beginning of what will become the sort of decadelong problem with inflation, which the Energy Crisis mag any tied, and so magnified so this is generating support for something that is impossible for us to conceive of now. Government should just set the prices. If theyre too high, lets do something about it. And we its really hard for us to imagine t