Friend of the library, the Senior Vice President and chief operating officer. And with him, he has been a key supporter of Library Programs like todays leading voices. Pennsylvanias largest electricity and gas utilities responsible for leadership with operations. Safety, service reliability, Customer Satisfaction and financial management, and Philadelphia Police Athletic League and youth basketball coach and you volunteer for the state Margaret School level x association. And introduce todays guest speakers. Please join me in welcoming mike thank you. Good morning. You cant see what i can see but i have a great speaker, great audience. Just a phenomenal way to start my morning so thank you. Todays lecture is sponsored by pico sport ideas. If you dont have that please pull out any that are aside. Advancing smart energy to provide safe, Reliable Energy services for our customers. And an awardwinning suite of Energy Efficiency programs as part of this. Customers have saved half 1 billion over the last few years. This is many customers can use to grow their business and invest in the local economy. Leading voices inspire all of us to become leaders in the workplace and better people in our daily lives. Todays guest is no exception. Daniel shapiro is one of the leading experts on conflict resolution and negotiation. He made a career out of helping people navigate these critical conversations. As a founder and director of Harvard International Negotiation Program daniel has launched successful conflict resolution initiatives in the middle east, europe and east asia. He served as chair of the World Economic forums Global Agenda Council on conflict resolution and developed conflict Management Program reaching 1 million young people in 30 countries. Latest gentlemen, please welcome daniel shapiro. [applause] good morning, how are you all doing this morning . First of all a huge thank you to the library of philadelphia, special thank you to pico is very fitting at 8 00 in the morning to have an Energy Producer sponsoring our event today. Tremendous honor to be here today with all of you. A simple question, in the past 6 months, how many of you have experienced an emotionally charged conflict . Fair enough. My sense is almost every person considered a human being has experienced these kinds of conflict and does experience them on a regular basis. Question is how do you deal with them most effectively . This is where my research has taken me over the past 25 years. On a personal level, in the office, with your loved ones at home and in the International Sphere. How do we deal with conflict more effectively . Let me start with a different question. Does anybody in this room know what a poplar tree is . What is a poplar tree . In a sentence or two. Obviously it is a deciduous tree, the leaves shake in the wind. This is beautiful. A deciduous tree and the leaves shake in the wind. What is a poplar tree . There is a single surprise surprise, the situation reaches the highest high in the United States, the white house where president ford faces a difficult decision. In philadelphia and beyond, what would you do. He turns to the concert very, what do you think we should do, advisor says you know what i think we should do . I think we should bomb the north koreans. The president thinks about it and ultimately decides a more appropriate strategy would be to sibley try to cut down this tree. Back to the scene now, 813 four fighters, 5 fighters, 64 man train, 64 man, trained in tae kwon do, b52 bombers overhead with the singlepurpose of what . Trying to chop down this tree. Do they do it . Yes. How long does it take . About one hour. Was there further incident . No. As i was learning about this situation, what struck me most, this was literally almost world war iii. Over what . Over a tree . Obviously it is over much more than a tree but it begs two fundamental questions we will be talking about today, questions that are just as relevant in the International Sphere as in the sphere of our own home lives. Why do we get so stuck in these emotionally charged conflicts and two, how do we get out . Something strange about these emotionally charged conflicts. In the United States and canada, we had a problem with a tree at our border, you and i would sit down for five minutes, we got this thing figured out. In asia it was almost world war iii. What accounts for this . That is what we will talk about today. Where do these ideas come from . One more point giving it more specific purpose, talk about some of the elements of the book you have in your hand, negotiated and nonnegotiable, two big things, the basis of a framework we have been researching for many years now. What is the fundamental mindset we found tens to divide people in conflict situations even when it is self sabotaging, when it does not solve your own better good. We have discovered a set of emotional forces that tend to pull us toward this mindset even if it is self sabotage. Where do these ideas come from . They come from a lot of places. One from Laboratory Research that myself and colleagues around the world have been doing. How do you deal with differences more effectively . Secondly, through practical work. My own work is across the continent working with somebody from Civil Society groups, former yugoslavia during the war, working with ceos, business executives, heads of state, across the board, learning from all those experiences and trying to capture that into the form of something useful for others as well. One thing, i can promise you my greatest learning has come from negotiated with three of the hardest bargainers the world has ever seen and you will have to believe me on this one. These are my children. I dont know how many of you have beautiful things that look anything like this but these are my. Noah, zachary, liam, you have to trust me, they are my greatest learning on how to negotiate the nonnegotiable. I shared this picture with you to simply once again reinforce the point that you are negotiating all the time. You are dealing with conflict in many different contextss at work and at home. With that, lets jump into the big challenge. The big challenge for today, how should you deal with emotionally charged conflicts. And the home context it is obvious why you dont one negatively charged conflict the tears the family apart, it tears the relationship of art. You cant avoid conflict but you can often avoid emotionally charged divisive conflict. In the work context, this stuff is costly, typically on the financial spreadsheets, one line deals with conflict, litigation, yet there are all these hidden costs to conflict as well. You seem like a nice enough gentleman but i need you. What is your name . Lets say we are working together and i despise you, you despise me. We are a project team together. How good do you think our decisionmaking is going to be . Good or bad. How much will this share with me . I imagine not much. It can be a little deceptive and vice versa. How loyal will we be to one another . Probably not that loyal. How loyal to our outcomes . All these hidden implicit costs on the organization. You lose your star player takes two years to find a replacement, the star player says i have had enough with this organization. Cost of conflict so the question is how should you deal with conflict most effectively . The single most dangerous element of conflict, not about the behavior, not what you say, but your mindset. There is a mindset let me go back one moment. This is how people conceive the process of conflict resolution. We have a problem between us, there is a conflict and lets rationally float across the waters, deal sidebyside with our differences, we will get to that nice Little Island where we can celebrate our success. Conflict resolution. What is the problem with this picture. This is not what conflict typically feels like. It typically looks like this, it pulls one direction or another, the undercurrents, you cant even see them, pulling far away from one another, the head wind, the tailwind and all of a sudden you think you are making such progress in your conflict and back you go 50 km, 50 years, this to me is the reality of the question, what holds us in all these Different Directions . It is this. Is what i call the tribes affect, a divisive mindset. We might be best friends but the second we get into an emotionally divisive conflict, the moment i feel my identity is threatened, who i am, what i stand for, this thing tends to trip in, to come in. What are the three basic characteristics, call to mind the conflict from your own life, and emotionally charged conflict and think about these. The conflict starts to feel adversarial. We might be best friends but now the conflict is me versus you, us versus them. Point to, all of a sudden my thinking is im absolutely right and legitimate, you are absolutely wrong and crazy. 3, i will argue my perspective to death defending it and i am going to close my ears to your perspective. These of the three basic characteristics of this divisive mindset. It is powerful. We are not immune to it. Nobody. Let me give you an example in brief, the first chapter of the book you have in your hand offers details. How many of you have been to switzerland . The number of you how many have been to dominos, switzerland . The mountains of switzerland . A number of years back i was invited by the World Economic forum to do a little workshop in those mountains of switzerland in january for the annual summit of the World Economic forum. Each january convene 40 or 50 heads of state, the ceo of the top 500 companies, Civil Society leaders, Amazing Group of people with incredible portfolios of negotiation experience. I left with a group of 48 people, led a small workshop, no windows, which is called the tribes exercise and in this room, 45, 48 leaders, one by one, deputy head of state in the room, ceos from fortune 50 companies, peace and security experts. Very impressive group. As they walk in they sit at six different tables. We have this wonderful opportunity at your tables to create your own tribes, to create your own group you feel some identification with, true identification with. You need to answer, here are the supplies, you want to dressing your tribal garb, i had this picture of the deputy head of state with a balloon on his head, wonderful black male that i will never use. They spent 50 minutes creating their tribes and come back to the middle of the room and feeling energy in the room. And in front of the room in the most boring voice, and debrief these exercise and interesting exercise but what is the point . All of a sudden the lights go completely dark. Into the room burst this intergalactic alien, future head, bulging eyes, i am an intergalactic alien, i have come to destroy the earth. I will give you one opportunity to save this world from complete destruction. You must choose one of these six tribes to be the tribe of all of you. You cannot change anything about your tribe or yours or yours. If you cannot come to agreement by the round of three rounds of negotiation the world will be destroyed. Out floats this alien. As ridiculous as this exercise sound, these Global Leaders in the room realize we are Global Leaders, we will step up to the task. Round one, six chairs in the middle of the room, a representative of each tribe joins, fastforward, around 2, six chairs in the middle of the room, six representatives, one from each group, no agreement. Round 3 lose the leaders now realize they have one final round to save the world from the aliens, from the explosion. It just so happens as they come back into the room, five men, one woman as representatives of their groups and the moment they are to the center of the room, they start yelling, this woman gets so rightly enraged, she literally stands on her barstool she was sitting on, stand on this thing and yells this is just another example of male competitive behavior. You all come to my tribe. Others refuse and 54321 boom. Our world explodes. I have run this dozens and dozens of times. For leadership across from the middle east, australia, United States, midcareer executives but the most monastic substance, the world explodes again and again. In the course of only 50 minutes, we can allow people to create such an identity they are so attached to that they would rather explode the world than sacrifice that identity. Think of the challenges facing the world today. How do we negotiate climate change, international security, security and stability in the middle east or here in the United States. How do you negotiate with isis for these organizations very identity bound, how do you negotiate with fellow family members when you have fundamental valuebased difference. The opportunity, the real problem with these conflicts is not about skills. The opportunity was with the mindset. How can you transform moving away from the tribes affect to a different mindset. The problem is there are all these forces conspiring against us and in negotiating the nonnegotiable i talk about five of those forces and call these things the 5 lords of the tribal mind five emotional forces that tend to pull us toward the tribes affect, that divisive us versus them thinking, vertigo, taboos, repetition compulsion, assault on the sacred and identity politics. Let me touch on a few of these, you can catch the rest in the booklet lets start with the first, vertigo. Think about the conflict you were thinking about earlier, the difficult conflict between you and somebody else at work, at home. Vertigo is the concept when you are so emotionally consumed in a situation that you can think of nothing else but that conflict, that evil other person who perpetrated that grievance against you. That is vertigo. We all know it. The problem is we get into it without realizing it, then we are stuck in this emotional tornado you and me, both sides, you can see outside those emotional walls and you move towards it. Let me give you an example. A wonderful and eccentric english professor. He was in the mall shopping for a bedspread and he says his wife absolutely thought they needed a 500 bedspread and he said i thought this was the stupidest financial decision we were ever going to make. Of course what happens . They start getting into a conflict in the mall arguing more and more and he said we started screaming at one another and all of a sudden, just a moment, my eyes averted those of my wife. There were onlookers watching us and i had not noticed. He said i looked down at my watch, 20 minutes had passed. I thought it was 5. This is vertigo. It is a warped state of consciousness where time and space dont disappear but they become convoluted, very different and all of a sudden the fact that more years ago on tuesday you forgot to put down the toilet seat. That becomes fodder for the current conversation. Is one of my colleagues calls it there is a time collapse. The evil past becomes present. The feared future becomes the inevitable future. It is at 100 , cannot trust you, this will happen. You see this in broadscale largescale conflicts as well. 50 years ago you did this and it is as though it happened yesterday. We are in this world of vertigo. How do you deal with this, i will deal with most of them, feel for what they are. We are going to do exercise, Early Morning philadelphia. A single person, a soul person, find a partner, someone you do not know, someone sitting next to you. Be near that partner, i promise i will humiliate you. Find a partner. [inaudible conversations] does anybody not have a partner . Does anybody not have a partner . This goes into social hour in philadelphia. Thank you for doing that so quickly. The goal of this exercise is to get to better know the person, might be uncomfortable for some of you. It is part of the learning process. The person you are partnered with. Do not start this exercise, to say go. The things you are sharing, point number one, point number one, what is your salary . Not what tax forms say. With a political campaign, propelling forward, what is your political leaning . Democrat, republican, independence, sick of the whole thing, what is the political leaning . The first two you are sharing. The next two you are taking your best guess what it is like with perception of another person. How attractive do you think your partner is. How attractive do you think they are . So nobody walks away traumatized, a scale from 1 to 10, a one is more, you are okay. Attend is you are the higher philadelphia. That is the deal there. How attractive that is, how old do you think this person is . What do you think this other person at age, the cool thing about this is after the exercise is done you discover if you were right or wrong or what direction . Were you too high or too low . That is the exercise. Any questions about this exercise . Any questions . Are we telling or asking . You are telling for the first two, you are still telling but is your best guess what you believe, how attractive this other person is and what age you think they are . It is all telling but a different form of telling. Question over here . What is number 3 . How attractive do you think the person sitting beside you is . Doing this exercise for a group of very established lawyers, mediators from the new york area. Afterwards i was like were not going to do this. Afterwards, theres this reception. I must just tell you, everybody is doing your little exercise, you know. [laughter] and my sister whos a lawyer as well walked away traumatized. [laughter] why are we doing this exercise . My interest is not in traumatizing any of you. Its because of this taboos. Taboos are social prohibitions. They are, as my motherinlaw likes to put it, the big nonos, the things youre not supposed to say, the things youre not supposed to do, the things youre not supposed to feel in in the family or at the workplace. And the problem with taboos in terms of conflict is that these are often the elements that lie just dead center at the heart of our conflict situations. And yet we are scared to death to talk about them. And this makes for a huge problem. How do you negotiate difference with somebody else when the essence of the problem is something that you will get socially punished for you do discuss . If you do discuss . Dont talk about moms drinking. You know that if you do, moms going to explode. She might threaten to kill herself once again. And yet if you dont talk about it, shes drinking herself to death. Dont talk about the fact that dad always loved you more than me. Shes like, no, i dont think so. [laughter] i was the one. And thats at the home context. At the work context, its just as problematic. Dont give that boss the negative feedback. I promise you if you want that promotion, he or she wont like it. Taboos, how do you deal with them in and, again, just to the fast forward so we can get through some more of these, this is an essential element if you do not deal with taboos, you fall right towards that tribes effect. Me versus you, us versus them, and its just as true, and ill just show you the picture. In the book i offer an example of some of the work i did in egypt with israeli, palestinian and International Leaders there, looking at that conflict. How do you deal with those issues that are utterly taboo to talk about, and yet if you dont talk about them, you get the situation that we continue to see. People its not only issues you cant talk about, i cant even sit down next to you. Its a taboo to meet with the other side. How are we ever going to resolve these conflicts if we dont deal with the taboos . Third. The third, briefly, of these five lores is what Sigmund Freud originally called the repetition compulsion. My definition of it, its a dysfunctional pattern of behavior that we tend to repeat again and again and again. You know, and you might go to a wonderful skills training on conflict resolution, Something Like that, send your employees, and they come back. For the next two weeks, i am a transformed person. And you see the way they relate to the people. Its different. Its more constructive. Its more collaborative for about two weeks, you know . And then all of a sudden those really ingrained patterns start to seep back into their behavior. This is the repetition compulsion. And in relationships this can be utterly challenging, utterly challenging. If you dont deal with a with this again, you get back into those same negative patterns of behavior again and again and again and again whether its the middle east or its our congress here in the United States. Its problematic. It leads us towards this tribes effect, and we get stuck in a situation where were losing value rather than gaining. Thats the repetition compulsion. Let me close with the final sorry, with the fourth of these five lores which is what i call an assault on the sacred. The big idea here is there are many things we hold as sacred. Some, as i call it in the book, can sacredsacred. There is no way i will ever sacrifice, perhaps, on religion or on my love for my children. Theyre sacredsacred. But what i mean by just sacred, oneword sacred, anything you hold deeply meaningful to you, to your identity, to what you stand for, to who you are. Sacred. And the moment somebody comes along and attacks that which you believe is sacred, whew, thats the moment you start spinning towards this tribes effect. And it could be, again, about religion, but it doesnt have to be. You spend months, months putting together a beautiful project design. Youve put your heart, your soul in it. You havent seen your kids over the weekends, youve been at work working on it. And then five weeks sorry, five months later the boss comes into your office and says, boy, thanks so much for doing that. However, weve decided we, the Senior Management have decided were not going to move forward with it. On some small level there as well, it can feel like an assault on the sacred. Now you have the Division Within the organization. This is tough to deal with. And let me close with an example of how one might deal with this and each difficult circumstance. Part of the work i do is in advising hostage negotiators, crisis negotiators. So, for example, i worked with the new York Police Departments hostage negotiation team, was privileged to be trained by them as well. Thought we might think through an example based upon a real life situation. I was not involved in the actual situation. I learned about this through a training program, but i thought we might think about the situation together. It involves a gentleman about, he was about 26 years old. Clearly suffering from schizophrenia and delusions of grandeur. He thought he was better than god. And i should also make a side note. Most people suffering from severe Mental Illness such as schizophrenia are actually less violent than the nonafflicted individual. What we see in the newspapers makes for the misconception, the stereotype of other side. But this gentleman was the exception. He had a violent tendency. And he was there in the subway system in new york city just sort of wandering around. And as hes wandering around, he spots a woman about 20 years old carrying a baby in her arms. And he sees this woman, he runs up to the woman, he grabs the baby out of her arms, he pushes the woman into the train track, runs off into the janitors closet, locks the door behind him. About five minutes later, the new York Police Departments hostage negotiation team, they arrive. And they hear behind the door, if this childs an angel, love this child. If its a demon, you know what i have to do. Bang, open up, open up, open up. Were banging on the other side of the door, and does our approach work, do you think yes or no . Yes or no . No. Of course. What are we failing to do . [inaudible conversations] appreciate. This is the essence to effective negotiating in the most hostile or challenging conflict situations. Our tendency to interrogate, to fight more our side, to defend our own position. And, boy, that does not work especially in these kinds of tough situations. It only escalates the situation. And this gentleman now, if this child is an angel, love this child. If this child is a demon, you know what i have to do. What are you going to say . If the child is an angel, i love if this child is a demon, you know what i have to do. Say it again. Take care of the angel. Take care of the angel. What do you say . If this child is a demon, what are you going to say . If this child is an angel what would you say . [inaudible] say it again. Hes an angel. Say it again one more time loudly so everyone can hear. Hes an angel. This child is an angel. And that is precisely what we said on the other side of the door, the child is an angel. And did it work, what do you think . Yes or no . Yes. Yes or no . Of course. Of course, of course. Not. [laughter] unfortunately, because all of a sudden this gentleman on the other side of the door, angel, angel, how do you know . How do you know . How do you know this child is an angel . There were three people on the other side of the door, how many people were really on the other side of the door. And all of a sudden we have now made precisely the opposite error that we had made in this room three minutes ago. And the reallife situation undoubtedly several hours difference. At first theres no appreciation, like you pointed out. At first were banging on the door like the stereotypic interrogator. You tell me what i need to know, you do what i tell you. That definitely did not work. And yet but three minutes later, we are now way on this other side of appreciation. In a sense now overappreciating. Assuming we know more about what is going on in the mind of this hostage taker than he knows. And that is a dangerous place to be. Just to break it down, make it real, i come home after a tough friday at work, get home and there there my beautiful wife is at the door. She opens up the door, i see she looks a bit tired, and she says to me i have had the most frustrating day of my life with your three boys. [laughter] you know . Now, if my response to my wife is, honey, i know exactly how frustrated you are [laughter] im in trouble, you know . I am absolutely overappreciating, assuming i know more about what is going on in her mind, her heart than she knows. That was our situation here. We took a break and went back to the bare bones basics, the essence of how you negotiate the nonnegotiable to easiest to hardest things to do in a conflict two hardest and easiest things to do, listening and asking openended questions. Talk to us. What do you want . How can we help you . And once we started to ask those questions, we started to learn. From this gentlemans perspective, he was not crazy. He was trying to save the world. Save the world from the demons, bring in those sacred angels. And once we understood that, it completely changed our approach to the negotiation. Because now we could say, look, im nypd. I dont see the angels you see. I dont see the demons you see. But i hear you saying youre trying to save the world. You know what . In our own small way here at nypd, were trying to save the world too. Why dont you open up that door and see if we can try and save the world together. Literally three minutes later, three minutes later, that little door squeaks open, out walks that gentleman with baby in arms. But it is a challenge. When you are facing a situation that seems absolutely nonnegotiable, how do you appreciate . How can you find it within yourself to appreciate the other side at that precise moment . Be that is your greatest source of power. So with that, let me put closure to our time together. Actually, the fifth of the lore, just so you think im not trying to hold something back, identity politics. Just watch the president ial debates, just watch the situation. Youll get it. [laughter] the notion, though, is that there are these five things. You know, we up say, oh, just work with your colleague, make things better, collaborate. Thats useful, but if you dont deal with these underlying dynamics, often hidden, youre going to get sucked down here into this tribes effect. This mindset of us versus them whether you are the leaders at davos or the leaders here in philadelphia. How do you deal with those lores . Thats what the book is largely about. Then theres a whole other part on what i call a commune calaminedset, sort of the communal mindset. How do you build that working relationship when there has been severe grievance whether in the family or at work . So you put it all together, overcoming an emotionallycharged conflict. Guard against that tribes effect, that us versus them in thinking. Counter, try, at least, to counter those five lores. Watch out for vertigo. Dont go there. Yeah. Know what your patterns are, your own repetition come pulses. Try to resist it. If its not working for you and for the relationship. And so on. And finally, as i suggest in the book, emphasize what i call the relentless we. Why does the world sometimes not explode on rare occasion . You get a mandelalike character who says its not about my tribe versus yours, its we, we, we. Its not about democrat versus republican versus independent, we are a United States of america. Its about us, us, us. Thats the essence. So with that, let me just say a huge thank you to all of you. Its an extreme honor to be here. Im originally from harrisburg, used to come here for the amazing steak sandwiches on south street. Its a tremendous honor. Thank you all so much. Thank you. [applause] so now, okay oh, so i apparently facilitate a q a now. How much time do we have . [inaudible] about ten minutes. Okay. So, questions, comments, criticisms, whatever you yes, please. And theres a microphone coming in your direction. Its above you with a lot of hair on it. [laughter] yes. You work with these really difficult situations. Are you always successful . No. All right. So the question was i work in a lot of difficult situations, am i always successful . Absolutely not. You know, i think the mistakes are often where the great learning happens. So as an example, we used a lot of these kinds of ideas behind the scenes around the israelipalestinian conflict, working with some of major parties on both sides. Some of the major groups and leaders to help them move toward breaking the impasse in the most, what, some four or five years ago. And it helped, you know . There was a major effort that we did along with the World Economic forum called break the impasse. Bringing together Business Leaders in particular who said, look, conflict is not good for our business. And at the end of the day, its not good for the people, of course, on a human level. And this had a substantial impact on u ultimately, the breaking of the impasse that led to the political negotiations that happened. That was the good part. The bad part, those negotiations failed. So theres a lot of work that needs to be done even in the home context. My wife would be the first to say, yeah, he tries his hardest to do this stuff, you know . [laughter] but at the end of the day, were all human, and i think that the challenge is how to become more aware of these lores so that, you know, all of us dont fall prey to them. Yeah. Thank you for the question though. Yes, sir, please. How do you deal with a situation where one side wants to listen and appreciate, and the other side takes advantage . Witness the last eight years of our national politics. Yes. You start with the easy questions, dont you . [laughter] i stayed away from u. S. Politics. I think the middle east is a bit more comfortable. You know . [laughter] you see a clear tribalism within the United States politics. I mean, its a clear, clear tribalism. That tribes effect is so ripe. Arguably on both sides to some greater or lesser degree. Each side, i dont want to work with them. And it is not necessarily even sometimes on the merit, its simply the fact that you are group b, and i am group a, and we are not allowed to work with one another. Its taboo. I will be seen as a traitor if i even move toward you, if im caught talking to you on a video camera or a photograph. So is it possible to improve the situation in washington . I think, definitely. You know, i think there is a challenge of the intractable structures that are in place right now, the psychological structures of division. At the same time, there are amazing programs at the Harvard Kennedy school and elsewhere training both current and the next generation of leadership in these kinds of ideas. How can we negotiate more effectively . How do we right now its a loselose. Nobodys winning in this situation arguably. How do you shift that minnesotaalty . Mentality . Im not sure i fully answered your question though. [inaudible] say it again . So what happens if one side is open to negotiating, is listening, doing all these kinds of things and the other side isnt . There is absolutely power in one. There is power in one. Maybe its difficult in the political scene in d. C. Nonetheless, one has more power than you think. In the book i talk about something and some other researchers call the space between. As you and i are negotiating, its not just about you as a body and me as a body, there is this emotional space between us. And we know it in everyday language when we say, oh, theres something between the two of us, you know, and this is a problem. And it only takes one to change that emotional dynamic. You know, if i if you and i are in the midst of a conflict and youre absolutely not listening to me and everybodys here looking at us, you know, i might try and figure out is there the way we can get a third Party Mediator or facilitator to assist in communication between us. Might i say, look, after this whole program is done, lets you and i go out for coffee, just the two of us. Well go to that private cafe down the street, we can talk. I can do things to try and take action to improve the likely hood of twoway communication. In this hostage system that i just demonstrated, one could argue youre powerless. He has the child in his hands. Boy, hes not listening. Thats everything but the truth. What is, to me, whats the core essence of conflict from an emotional perspective . Theres an emotional stalemate. Ing i desperately want to feel understood, heard, valued, appreciated. And so do you. And then theres the odd, instinctual element at precisely that moment that were each begging for the appreciation, neither of us wants to give it. This means power. If one, just one truly tries to listen and understand, you know what says the democrat, i want to sit down and really understand your perspective, republican. Im not going to try and change you or vice versa, republican to democrat. It may just open up the door a little bit more for possibility. Is it the answer . No. Second response to your question, as you and i are negotiating, i also want to think through what some of my colleagues call your best alternative to a negotiated agreement. If you and i i cant come to an agreement, whats my walkaway alternative . What am i going to do . Because i dont want to be imprisoned or held hostage to you in negotiation. I want to know what my alternatives are, can i make them better. Im trying to negotiate a deal with you, youre not listening, youre becoming tough offer and tougher, i might Start Talking to the coo and say, hey, you know what . I have some great products for the energy world. Im still negotiating with you, but if youre a robot, youre absolutely not listening to me, im not going to walk away unemployed with my company falling down, i have an alternative. Consider walking if the other side truly is that robot. Thank you for the questionment yes, please, in the back. Thank you. Well, since you ended with religion, i wanted to know whether or not there was an ethical, moral and or, dare i say spiritual component to the way you, to the way you devise the negotiating tools . I mean, are you driven by any of those pieces, moral, spiritual you know, i think so many in the field are, myself included. Its often, i mean, its dangerous to become, you know, a rabbi or preacher, imam, thats not my im not trained in any of that. However, at the end of day, i do think theres a transcendent element to, you know, the work that were doing in this field. At the end of the day,s what is it about . It is about trying to find that greater degree of interconnection between people. I think the greatest challenge to that deeper Spiritual Connection are all of these mental illusions that start to appear in our mind, youre completely not just dimple, but dangerously not just different, but dangerously different from me. But at the end of the day on this core level, my sense is were absolutely the same. And working across the continents, i remember my work in the middle east, initially how am i supposed to act, what am i supposed to do, who am i supposed to be in and through this work i realized, you know what . Were all human beings. In the middle east with my work there in the arab world and beyond, they care as much about having a Good Relationship with their marital spouse as people do here. They care just as much about their organizational success. Were all human beings. Personally, i think theres a 450u7b8g spiritual component to the work that i do. At the end of the day though, the goal is tactical. Practically, what are the tools that can allow you to execute that greater sense of interconnection in very divisive circumstances. Thank you for your question. And, yes, please. When my children were your age, yeah, when my children were your age and my wife would get pushed against the wall, her backup position was i do not negotiate with terrorists. [laughter] so can you comment about when you should negotiate with terrortists or how your context fits into those situations. Yes. So i will not compare my children to terrorists, although it can feel that way, absolutely. So how do you negotiate with terrorists . Its a critical question. On the one hand, i think some things are, you know, negotiation isnt the answer to everything. You know, god forbid someone was in this room right now with a gun and just starts shooting. I wouldnt advise z people at that precise moment in time to try and talk to that perp. Id say run or lets storm that person. Thats one side. Secondly though, how do you negotiate with alqaeda . Or isis . Many people wrongly assume, i think wrongly, oh, theyre just irrational. Theyre utterly crazy, they have no clear motivation to what theyre doing. Its not true. They are absolutely driven sometimes by the sacred. I feel like my sacred world is being assaulted by yours. Thats good to know. The more i can understand the mentality, the mindset of that potential terrorist, the more i can try and influence him. Two, people say you cant communicate with them. Boy, they are wonderful communicators. I moon, think about the internet i mean, think about the internet communication plan of a group like isis now. To me, thats an opportunity. We can have back and forth negotiation through communications. Three, in the book i talk and this is going more theoretical, but i talk about the notion that we all see the world from our own sphere of identity. Some people, for example, see the world from a completely what i call a quantummist approach. Yeah, somewhat of a constructed person, i can change as a human to some degree, but theres some biological given. And there are others of us in this world who are more in the fundamentalist realm. I am divinely myself, my beliefs are divine, there is nothing about myself that can ever be changed, i am the product of a god or gods. How do you negotiate with that person . I dont know if we have time. We have one minute or one more question . Let me just give a little story. So in the book i share an example of a conversation i had with a very eminent lawyer. And this lawyer had this unusual opportunity to talk with a suicide bomber, a kid, basically, from the middle east before he went off and did his thing. And the question was what should he say in that conversation with the goal of trying to persuade this child, this teenager out of this activity. And his idea was im going to tell child, look, youre 14 years old. You have your whole life ahead of you. You explode yourself, you kill a few people, you might be in the papers for a day, you might call attention to your political cause, but at what cost to you, to others and at what potential that youve lost . Think of what you could do economically, politically and so on. As i was listening though to this idea, what struck me was, boy, this is rational. And as im sitting there as the 14yearold indoctrinated into a certain belief system, who is this western, rational lawyer telling me i have the rest of i dont care about that. I care about sacred, infinite life ahead of me. So how do you negotiate with that kind of person . And my sense is that one still can negotiate. Another way to try and negotiate is to look who are the gatekeepers. Who are the religious figures or others who that 14yearold will listen to. And can you try to work with them on their interpretations of the religious text or Something Like that. Shifting the taboo line in terms of what is acceptable in terms of violence for political reason. So its another way to try and deal with this, you know . And more generally to your question, i think theres a huge need in our societies at large to think about where is the taboo line in terms of violence. You know, every day i have those three cute kids. Every day when they go to school, honestly, i get scared to death. The i love you is a deep i love you with the rare but plausible situations of the school shootings, things like that. The taboo line in terms of violation, i think, has shifted much too far in the wrong direction. We, as a, you know, as a country and as a globe have possibility to shift that as well just as much as working to shift it with these terrorist organizations as well. T means timeout . Okay. Thank you. Its been an honor, thank you. [applause] thank you very much
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