Out in the Housing Market is recovering slowly. What is your view on the health of the Housing Market . I have a very negative view that is why the subtitle is what caused a financial crisis and why can happen again because if you point the finger at the private sector and say we have regulated the private sector so there is nothing else to worry about made while the beverage is doing the exact same thing it was doing before to regulate fannie mae and freddie mac but just a few weeks ago to told the annual not take risks on mortgages now except the 3 percent down payment up until now their lawyers insisted that the banks take 5 but now to stimulate the Housing Market with the same problem the government said it really you to except 3 which will be in overtime to exactly the same problem with people have mortgages that they cannot sustain when the cycle turns so we will have another crisis that has the same defect confidential institutions to have something to a financial crisis. We should have understood that it is the governments role to reform the of government rather than trying to impose those restrictions. Host will that be different from the last one did . There will always be some differences but if we keep calling this way with the government in charge were about to have a federal judge prices again in what is important to understand this isnt something that is irrelevant to use them because for those who own homes if work is it your neighborhood fail the value of your home is forced to decline. So your own investments are affected directly by whether your neighbors are people who can sustain in the mortgages they are holding. Sa is very important to a understand why it is bad for the American People as taxpayers to bail out people wendys governor backed organizations fail, but also very directly the American People themselves as homeowners and that is what people have not recognized. Ration system solid underwriting standards to keep a stable housing values host thank you. Guest my pleasure. Thank you. This is about 1 and contains language and some viewers may find offensive. [inaudible conversations] i am the publisher of hearth harpers magazine and i am delighted to welcome you here to a continuing series of events sponsored by harpers am book culture of the columbus located in the hearts of the manhattan Upper West Side and becoming a neighborhood institution. You will note it is its a change for the Citibank Branch that we need your patronage to thrive and so far this support of our customers has been remarkable and we are grateful. It is my great pleasure to introduce Andrew Cockburn author of just published kill chain the rise of the hightech assassins. First as publisher i am lucky to have andrew as our washington editor of roll the he performs brilliantly with equality cannot find pennyroyals a very rare combination the of outrage and studious and craftsman who never lets is anchored in the way of accuracy are wellwritten story telling. What strikes the is the great amount of detailed and entered this stalling is in evidence of the april edition of harpers magazine with a history of corruption and loan sharks at citibank. I am so proud to be publishing this article i hope you will buy it right after you buy a kill chain i will let a after explain the thesis but i cannot resist reading a brief passage that i think captures the essence of the story you and the deeply disturbing approached tarot modern warfare practice by the executive branch. Kill chain is and expose say of the book of the eroded Missile Program that cause such an immense amount of monday in washington and also a history of the obsession with the assassination with sanitized military tactics al works itself out as it removes itself from reality of the ground. This is some additional etfs selfdefeating a a delusional. But this is allah harder to get there and you realize. Is untrue is describing a beating between the internal whistleblower tom christie who has actually tested the predator drone to figure out there highly inaccurate overwhelmingly only 21 percent of the targets of debt of the test did nevada but he is up against the military Industrial Complex in the form i forget her name and she is known as the dragon lady of procurement with the deputy secretary of the air force she would eventually be sentenced to the nine month prison term for corruption but on that morning when she went into confront him to complain about this report he had written about the inaccuracies of the drums she was much fearing her commanding role to rude negotiating prices of milliondollar contracts. They had the impact of the American Airlines flight to when he marches to christies third floor office as was later related to me with the six generals trailing behind her. Not known for diplomacy she came straight to the point. What the fuck is this . Would you read said the al this fucking report that the predator doesnt work . To is that asshole teach 12th . I will read them a new asshole. [laughter] edits the Industrial Complex of the 21st century but he says have you found it anything in the report that is wrong . No. But could easily least take out the bit about not operationally suitable out of the cover letter . They were well aware that christie gave no ground in the letters stood but washington was already in transit by the notion of killing people at a distance. Bravo. Andrew cockburn. [applause] faq. The queue for the very kind introduction. But together we did it. I will start to by reading the description of an actual drop on strike drove strike because it contains the Communications Like the pilots in nevada kennedypowell on the ground in afghanistan. In 2010 a fourdoor pickup truck headed down the rows of southern afghanistan. In then in the is to conduct our. Everybody do one another. Roughly 200 miles southwest of kabul. Many been drawn their way to rand and shopkeepers headed to the capital to buy supplies for students returning to school. And the ethnic minority whenever they had day opportunity. Now in the taliban country was very dangerous but there were short cuts because they were short on gas. But the world around them must have seemed empty but unbeknownst to them with the warmth through their bodies transmitted across the globe. Id people confered across the oceans of continents and if they should live or die. Driving to the Operational Detachment as special forces controlled of Afghan Soldiers soon after midnight. To be planned and executed by the special Operations Command with the highvalue targets. The importance of to be the code name operation injustice. Eyes on the first vehicle. The 27foot long predator drone with the air for red vehicles in pastures to 1 2 miles below. They flashed across the world at the air force base in nevada. Through the desert. Guiding their drone by remotecontrol. And other rooms with the intelligence coordinator who watches the same video. And thin that Florida Panhandle is center of Operations Command to have that Global Network referred to as the distributed Common Ground system. And other system of drone where for your warfare with reconnaissance planes around the globe. In theory anyone or any part of the system that has access into the system from wherever they are. The merger is captured were being watched by a dedicated team a bureaucracy each with specialized tasks. With day intelligence tactical coordinator the chief screener heavily involved with the drone of operations out rating to said junior officer could happen to be her husband. While one watched the screen conclusions were drawn then they would pass them on to the intelligence coordinator sitting in nevada in then with his beloved geographical information field to mitt beneficiary of days arrangements known as the controller he was responsible to a communique eddie and all air support including the predator leading from the young captain calling itself jaguar 25 from the team in nevada that we set solely with his readers in florida. Once theyve put a disembarked after midnight to broadcast to the general there here. Get the Team Together to defend them. Then there was a more uncomplicated suggestion not new to anyone in particular americans were produced by their enemies and was overheard by folks on the ground and in the air. To a lookout for it to reinforcements with the vehicles in tandem laundry into the effort area as in other flashlights before they ever continue and wait for daylight. The Mission Intelligence coordinator zoom in. The is that there is that a fucking rifle . I was hoping we could make out a rifle. Efeel the way i have been able to save move them around your they hold them to swing them across their shoulders. Drone operators are not in immediate contact with the real world. The lease to make itself from the drone tuzes satellite to a thousand miles up in space then to the ground station in germany switching to the fiberoptic cable touche yes for cross semantic ocean and continental units seized before reaching nevada in the trailer. As those are split that it could be to second source much as five seconds. So to the aircraft they are flying dishes it takes too long to deliver that is handled by the station close to the runway. The potential targets on the ground when they hear a drover head the move around as best as possible. But then sometimes it is no better one with an operations told me they can only focus on to read a three vehicles at a time event even slightly with that resolution is lost. History was less precise with dusk toward dawn in the news is efficiency. The video was received by troops on the ground and was even described as crap by one of them. For 24 00 a. M. Order revoking for . We could have a high level taliban and the commander. It wouldnt surprise me if it is one of their important guys. Then came the and welcome message Mission Intelligence coordinator there is a least one child there the suvs. Send me that fucking still. Al least one child . Really . Bullshit. If it is a male he is guilty. May be a teenager but i havent seen anything that looks that short but they are all grouped together that they are reviewing. Review that. Where they so quick to call fucking kids but not the rifle . When many of the passengers got out as the pictures revealed something ominous. This is definitely it. It is their fault. Seriously. That is what they do. To the infrared camera camera, the men and women were indistinguishable from one of the taliban enforcements and one hour of later headed to the american ground units alternately 12 miles away with the indication that whoever they were nevertheless with that flanking maneuver to get behind the troops. 6 59 a. M. The pilot, i cannot wait until this happens with coordination and shit. Far removed as the Fighter Pilots of an earlier age. To combat stress not to mention in that combat pay. It echoed the combat crew and every once in awhile but it back on the ground seven and a half thousand miles away. Do you mind if i took a bathroom break row . Donna hall. It is almost incomprehensible that it was supplanted but that conversation show that the jargon is another layer between them and on the ground the male became a definition of the enemy fighter positive identification as someone publicly identified as a threat there for a legitimate target. They say entirely Different Things to different people. 738am. Roger. Every talking to teenagers or toddlers . Something more to adolescence. Yes. It is just want doubledigit age range. Pop that along on the ground. We agree. Copy that well understand and agree. So watching this go down with dave byrne added ammunition we can play cleanup. I dont care if you follow one died but whatever you decide to do i am with you. As long as we can keep somebody to shoot in the field of view i am happy. The lead helicopter killing 11 passengers the following as the passengers scrambled with that in june brought block. For a diameter of the. And then it blows out the we are window. As a matter of routine for people find the strike with a 2. 75 lynch rocket with the people whove escaped were not running. 8 52 a. M. That is weird. I cannot tell what the fuck they are doing. That is what looks like. Theyre all males with no field in the Group Swimming he is wearing jewelry like a girl but he isnt. If he is a girl he is a big one. But those to word it scramble at price the colored scarves. 23 people were killed including two boys and eight men and three children age five and 14 were wounded. The Mission Intelligence coordinator that would are these . There were in the milk bottle of the vehicle. Women and children. Then as they become adolescents turning back into children. Pilot. Looks like they may be carrying a child as well. Younker than adolescents to me. There is no way to tell. No way to tell from your. Survive will just move on the following year describing a dinner with the Memorial Foundation to support the families of those who have died in action with a big jamboree with defense corporations. Earlier the cia director that customarily referred to the budget with such disdain is now long gone by the corporate sponsorship from the tables jammed into the grand ballroom. To go up through the revolving door with old and current partners. This seems like every other fringe facture has taken the table of her body else is doing business the cia is blighted by scandal revelations of torture and focused intelligence to ignore signs of the intent 8911 attack even george tenet agreed there was heartfelt affection with almost every living cia director for the former Deputy Director himself. Each with the exception for downsizing the enemy i have done more than a artery. With robert m. Gates. Although he left early before he was a father figure inventory who cheered so fervently. With the ruthless determination in the supervisor as an analyst for the soviet Foreign Policy branch wrote a report that had the evidence and all consuming ambition is disruptive. The confirmation of cia chief to work behindthescenes of the Senate Intelligence committee from 1993 moved on from the director of intelligence programs in which capacity he came into the midlevel analyst assigned to brief the white house staffers. He did not like jim much pro when he moved to the caa u. S. Appointed for that station chief summer with actual experience. Some branded work tirelessly to a foreign aid irritating the host to re reluctance to press them for the osama bin lot in biographical details because he said it would irritate them. Exiting Government Service fran and spend the next three years to engaged in preparing a terrorist watch list the issue is page 763,000 in with those useful relationships the wellconnected democrat former National Security advisor that todays issue of president ial candidate barack obama with than finishing brinnins sentences. So that a surgical approach to the terrorist threats with tavis chastising diseases as brennan put it that the hellfire missiles seem to be the ideal tools. But it is also close of an association torture program so instead he makes it to counter terrorism. Betcha years into this administration ever regretted use of both the irish man was the most powerful man but the chief executive and former professor and assistant to reserve a the last word making those final selections has said tuesday afternoon meeting. Our president has the aborticide commenting on obama his involvement at the time of dialogue with the others as their praise for the coveted award after paying tribute to kates spoke of a of a tragic sacrifice the seven men and women killed by a suicide bomber who oppose afghanistan in 2009. But gates moved onto more of the topic to find deeprooted resistance to new technology of the five boys going into your fighter plane combat working nights in day for that vital presence against terrorism so no one he concluded drones and baby drones. The applause was [applause] rabil pause there. Day you have any questions . Obama i gave the speech how we will be more careful now but what has happened . It was with the exact position. And it is what you call a civilian but i am sure as day kill children but since that speech and yemen when they kill civilians but in pakistan they dont really know. And then to keep away from the neighbors you could turn know how many people let you kill. So basically if you put a liedetector test to say he is killing civilians but with that offense is what they do good on that is almost totally electronic with those questionable forces. It is inevitable you kill civilians and would ever obama says. But with the killing of civilians with that catastrophe on the middle east . There if there are spectacular ones like in 2009 with the b1 bomber to feel it is absolutely assured concentration between 80 and 120 civilians. I should say people are fascinated by drones and it is the very carolina with someone sitting half a world away in the b1 bomber offer greater who presses the button to a with the weapons is sitting inside gun metal box looking at a video screen. It is the same distance from reality. But to answer your question to us because of the nature being dropped they kill more in one day about with the drones apart from the people that actually kill it is the effect of society because of the omnipresence where you could hear them all the time. But this seems to have a more traumatizing effect on the society. That is why eight children in pakistan and here in the northwest frontier they go to not play on a sunny day. That is why people gather for weddings in to the rules but many of those have been hit. There are a popular target for trone strikes. If you add up the numbers it is hard to tell. Because it is 70 cases the then turning them into fighter planes this is the family taking in the annals of the paper to a vapor families and were happy to do which. So they would drop the bomb but that was classified as a Successful Operation actually it was disappeared from a the files but initially they said seven terrorist. It is a difficult thing to assess. But it is steady in the city. With the instigators of the violence they are still removed from the ashes of solace. Because of the killings aerodrome strikes. And to be so far removed with the soldiers among as. There is the conceptual killing with a hand to hand combat the very image thanks to drones with the osama bin nodded raid to watching the enemy being killed. But theyre all watching of video. But there also excited to give them the allusion to be close to the action so as a fourstar general with a platoon leaders in a firefight with direct control they think. Is just not give the entirely false picture and it is much more of larry. So that is the insidious thing. Floor reality. As exemplified so those to say there is nothing there. And it is so feared dead in in brith that bureaucracy in he thinks he is controlling. Says interesting that they are culpable of all. That was a long producer but to the fed is one of the most basic points of what is going on. With the illusion of contact one more question. Has anybody tried to do anything about this . Yes. Sure. Died enough but among them is the liquid to announcers of this is rand paul who actually makes the most eloquent statement when with the legal opinion today given sells for rigid to kill the american citizen washington sat very quiet and it is outrageous they had of lawyer runup field to do that will be okay to cobble together that the israelis do. And rand paul cannot with a very eloquent statement that this is outrageous that they have given themselves the power to kill anyone he wants at any time. There are few others like basrelief who is the only member of congress to vote against the original authorization of military force that these stores have been based but the friend is a liberal senator and i love that Drone Program it is so clean and precise but we are destroying society is i apologize the core point of the books is though whole notion of taking off the top speeders to them lot of people say that is space true. But and intel now nobody has produced an explanation of how we know that has to believe the empirical study the data was not as hard but it was done by somebody that i know and he started to investigate this policy strategy. This comes in with other ineffective technological fixes for the iud for the homemade bomb. Said no mistaking of the itt and most of that castigates of the pair of military headquarters during the occupation. One single story is closer to the Generals Office walking in there is a was brown and to do. A nice big plasma screen on the wall you could tell they had priority. The whole of the highvalue target being the center counterpart to the so in the pentagon the easier it analysts tracked individuals grown units around iraq for those to be added to the george priorities. But the of the their own list of highvalue targets are high value of individuals. For example, a report of unspotted from the army observation desk than rashad as he tried to escape astride to it was explained with a lot of big words. But it appeared to be selfevident oer tableau as boreholes already dubious about those presumptions revealed of that strategy works. So with full access to the database that the highvalue targets were killed or captured. Then he went through the records again to save wear each leader had operated. That is a crucial question how had that made a difference with the fight against the insurgents . And with those to compare in the 30 days before as a percentage of change bpd in this procedure Online Access of the graph it delivered a simple message the strategy was making a difference highlighting the need but always there were more deadly. And then to ask general odierno for the understudy and he replied there is a limit to what i can do. With the bureaucratic politics. So. With the nonmilitary Non International question if you think back years ago people were about the proliferation of handguns now they have the ak47s and automatic weapons and i worry that drones are used talk about delivering packages, farmers, photograp hers soon there will be used by say professional hitman or various drug groups to fight against each other is that the inevitable results . It is possible already their smuggling across the Mexican Border but it turns out they kiepura crashing [laughter] so they are not reliable with mexico and u. S. Apparently is littered with them but of course, he had the case the other day of a joke Intelligence Agency decides to fly then drone over the warehouse crashing into a tree. It is called a possible buyout gps severally has made it possible that said technology is not that esoteric. But people worry about other countries mounting drone attacks but i dont think they have the global commandandcontrol system we have killed up that enables them to run those thrown drone operations. There is a lot of other things we can worry about in the meantime i really enjoy your free day your story and it is interesting. I have two questions but i want to get a sharper sense that it seems there are two critiques wonder is of a technological failure that said they cannot see is clearly as say kleve their killing too many civilians but that seems to reread more transparency and a accountability that it would sit comfortably within the american empire to make it more efficient . And the other critique is about less see them working at top form that they can see quite well and they dont kill civilians. Then is that okay . It seems to me we tend not to question the politics have a reason ask that question is i have spoken with survivors of the attacks and they dont talk about accountability and transparency but they want them to have to with of logic that the west allows himself were gives itself the right to attack so can you talk about where you place yourself . They do work a lot of the time. And not tried to say they do that all the time that why was it what rick read at the beginning about the reports if it fails all the time they get the air force official was very angry. It is all about as many people make a huge amount of money that is why you get a very faulty system like this. And i would give you one quick example federal body got the conrad to tell the of Border Patrol to buy six drones the media was a little over 5,000 illegal Border Crossers but dead subversive official agrees the assessment plan and puts a civil infrared telescope through this a mountainside which caused more illegal border crossings and the drones each cost 7000 the cessna is 230. So the inevitable result is the cessna was never used again so what really drives this why do those decisions get made that way . Lets assume that it worked. Then is it okay . As we can see the results are interesting. But that last bit that i read that i read talks about highvalue targets. With hundreds of Successful Missions but then to be the principal weapon so in 2001 for al qaeda ed there were ruffians living in and caves and in afghanistan and back prayers to reach the that video so by now we have supervision over thousands of operations and. That is the successful drive to the things that we have done. But you could hear all the time the sound and 04 earthas of fruit but that is all coming from nine but the result is a traumatized society with ever possibility had to reconcile. Is there a turning point . Through 2007 the air force chief were not wild about drums as tall as case became secretary of defense because every ground corridor with saying more . But they would not deploy. People were fired made because they were resistant to get the drones. That cover story was a nuclear accident. That is all. But was it generational with that new kind of their force so with special forces but what was going on politically or bureaucratically that changed the whole dynamic . It change. Talk about general moseley he was treated as the jumper. And he bought lots of them with their different constituencies. I think the trip the turning point is when and eight direct threat to the cia went to the white house and then he was ahead of the scary but with every mapping and regrouping their coming out to with again. And day got authorization to lose of restrictions on the drones obviously. So to give bush credit in half to be absolutely sure and this is july 2008. Hated got bush to relax that so now they are allowed