Programs from the past 15 years online at booktv. Org. [applause] well, this is fun. Im a fan, and i dont see any dead people here today. [laughter] a little joke. [laughter] actually, one of the memorable lines is i see dead people which is really fun. I like it. [laughter] i want to start up with something from your writing because i think when people want to read the book, they want to read something that you wrote. Its a personal book. It came out of you. It was not assigned to you. You picked the topic. You picked the passion, education. This wonderful line is when you were in high school, a tough neighborhood in north phillie, where we grew up, irish somehow, black, and very tough, and its a tough rundown neighborhood, the whole place, and you were talking to the kids, africanamerican kids there, wondering why you are the highest paid writer in the world, you tried to get their interest, right way to do it, i think. Im more me than they are them. Explain that about your success as a writer that youre more yourself than most people are themselves, or at least you delve deeper into what that is and how that took you to education as a passion. Some of them were excited, some were not, trying to be provocative, so i said something provocative. I said, word for word, im the highest paid writer in the world, and they sat up. Okay. All the teachers in the back stood up too. I said, why is that . How do you think that happened . They said, luck . Yes, thats possible, lucks involved for sure, and they said, you know somebody . Actually, no, were all indians, no, we dont know anybody. [laughter] nobody in film. So went on and on, and they guessed, and you work hard . I do, but certainly there are people that work harder than me, and i said, you know, theres definitely people smarter than me, you know, my english class in high school, there were two or three that were, and i said, you know, ultimately, i thought about it a lot, and it was i came down to the feeling that i was, you know, ultimately more me than they were them, and so, you know, i live 3,000 miles away from hollywood, wrote a screen play about just me feeling me in a fictional circumstance, but it was about my feeling about spiritualty, my feeling on being a husband, a father, this or that, all of it, the arrogance, the flaws, all of it put together, you know, and i was telling the girl in the front because she was staring at me, just austerized from the group that if you write about your experience, why youre loaning on your hand like that . What happened today before you got here . Why the guy behind you is doing that, why you cant hear your principals voice on the speaker because the speakers not fixed, and what does that make you feel . I cant be you. You are too you know, shown in an amazing light, and when you are yourself, it becomes like a light and pierces through everything, and i think that kind of comes from, something that i guess came from my parents or from, i dont know, from the culture that i was exposed to that theres Something Worthy in me; right . Thats the thing you. Kids to have, and, ncht, that exactly the opposite message they are getting. Ultimately, the book became a kind of very, very evidencebased book. All is very evidencebased. I try to keep my opinion out of it entirely, but my opinion is that were talking about a civil rights issue, and my opinion is that outside the school, they are getting a message, the opposite one, the one that i just said about their work and about what the country believes in them because this is about achieving gaps in intercity, low income, africanamerican, and hispanic, and closing the gap with the white suburban counterparts so telling them the opposite message in the school that they are in to overcome the the message they get outside the house. Well, separate by equal, illegal, unconstitutional now, and how do these kids, say, 9th grade, and say north phillie, how did they get the message thats wrong . When they walk into a classroom because they have to go, they have to go to school. Their parents get them ready for school, they get their clothes together and hopefully they have breakfast. They go to school. What are the signals they get that say youre infear your . That youre not beginning to get anything from this . Whats the thing you try to fight as you get into trying to make education work . Whats the bad education they are getting . So i think you are saying the opposite of what im saying. [laughter] they are getting them outside of school. When they walk in the school, the teachers trying to close the gap, they are dealing with such a hard problem; right . When i at the beginning of the book, i read a disclaimer saying this is making the assumption that no one is going to fix anything outside this school. No ones doing anything about the poverty, about the racism, anything. Can you close the gap just in the school . Put all of the burden on the teachers and the principals . They are not getting that message. Thats not what the research is from, the schools. The schools like you have two kids, an intercity africanamerican city in june in second grade id and a white bush suburban kid in second grade, they can be at the same level in june when they graduate. When they come back in september. The white suburban kid gained one month of learning from the experience he had, and the africanamerican kid lost three months of learning. They are now four months apart in september, and the teachers, again, have different burdens; right . Its not they are getting a bad education. Its that the issues that those teachers teach are very different than the white suburban teachers face; right . That kid is ahead of what the teachers going to teach them. This kids three months behind, has to do second grade stuff all over again while trying to get third grade stuff. You see how its a different challenge. What were talking about is outside the school. I did not find in the research and through all the years of meeting that the problem was actually what you were insip waiting there, they got the wrong message in the school. Its what happens when they leave the school until the next morning when they come home. Two things. You talk about the bad teacher, the roadblock teacher. What is that . What were talking about there is, like, you know, theres, you know, when you look at how powerful the number one thing is the teacher; right . A great teacher, the one in the top 20th percentile. If you get four grade teachers in a row, that teacher alone can close the gap. Those teachers alone. It was possible for everyone in the country to be taught by the top 20 , thats all you have to do. Thats how powerful they are; right . Now, the very, very bottom group, the bottom 233 , which in the book i call them, they are causing so much, so much pull, so much damage, so much loss that three or four decent teachers in the middle cant overcome one child getting one of those teachers putting so much pull. How does that work . How does the unone do so much damage in the row of four . Lets just say in that thing, the teacher above average, a good teacher, they are gaining a little. They are gaining a little bit. Four in a row, you gain, if by chance you got four in a row of the 60 teacher, you gain, but the damage done by the twothirds is losing a grade, losing an entire grade with the one teacher. Thats what im referring to. I do want to clarify one thing, though, because that when you look at all the data, and you look at all the things that the book says, these are the things that you find that will close the gap. Everyone goes to the thing, you know, fire the teachers, fire the teachers. Thats not what the Research Says. If you say to me, you can only do one thing, thats not the thing i would do. You can only do two thingsing thats not what the Research Says to do. Do three things, thats still not the thing to do. That is not everybodys attention is always on that, and thats not what the Research Says is thee thing thats pulling everything down. Just want to you know, you brought it up because i guess i read it. Its one thats most, you know i just want to make sure. One of the five. One in the five. So i was not off base. No, you were not, but i wanted to balance it. [laughter] i think youre argumentative. [laughter] you protest too much. [laughter] it seems to me this sigh is going through a royaling Political Year the last couple years. We had a mayor most liked. He was not the most connected guy in the world, a bit a loof, but he was hoppest, which is god, and he was respected, which is good. He had a school board who was judged to be very tough, demanding, almost like a tiger mom, who basically had an attitude about getting rid of bad teachers. Along comes randy, American Federation of teachers, drops a million bucks in the coffers, and knocked this person out. People thought it was not a good thing for the city. Your view . Wow. Ha [laughter] wow. Okay. So lets go back a bit. So i met michelle, we met her for the book when she was chancellor, and a lovely lady, forthcoming with the beliefs and that stuff, so heres the reality. Youre going to think im dancing around your question, and maybe i am, but [laughter] if a lot of the Ground Breaking work thats caused the research to happen over the last ten years has been by those vanguard tfa alumni that broke the system and done it their own way whether its kip or we can go on with the list; right . They have actually created the tendency. That mentality of shattering the room and im going to start over and im going to do it differently and see what works, thats caused us to have the moment that we have here now where we do have the information, and that meant that rebellious rogue kind of mentality caused change, and it has caused all of the evidence that we have today, so i have im i dont want to weigh in on the politics of it all of, you know, did she go too far, did she hand 8 it in the politically right way, to make change, and as i i want mated in the First Response to you, i the research doesnt say that getting rid of the work that those bottom teachers is the silver bullet. Thats not what the Research Says. Is it a bullet . Its part of the you know the politics of this. Yes. For years, this town, its been hard to get a job in the private sector if youre africanamerican, and 10 so the government, first resort a government jobs for africanamericanings and teaching jobs were respected in the community. A teacher, a woman especially, teaching for 2030 years was respected in the community, and this was a prized position. In comes this person from outside says, were going to get rid of some u you people. People put up barricades, this was a place we had to get jobs, and now youre putting a price on our head . Right, right. Thats a cartoon version, but this is what it was, and there was a lot of fighting from the poor wards, for example, i can tell what happened, and the elite wards said, sure. It was a class distinction fights in politics all the time. How do you settle it . Well, again, thats the hope of this that when we make legislative decisions or a chancellor in a school, a School System is making decisions that they are looking at whats been improving, they want to prove new things. Thats just the nature of, you know, all of us trying to do our own thing, but theres so much that has been proven, and they have data bind them. In fact, when we met michelle, michelle was very excited about the book, and shes been a big sporter because she wanted to have that ammunition herself, you know, and everybody by the way, and even we had Teachers Union over for dinner, and, again, they are having another teacher union, they are not unions and ed reforms, what side are you on, that was not the case, the research was very, you know, nonbiased, and michelle was very excited about us doing this. I am a from a families of doctors and its an evidencebased field. They dont guess how to do heart surgery. They dont know, i think im going to go to its crazy, right . Its crazy so why would you say these are the factors that come in, right . For some reason this field doesnt share the information. I have met with someone in charge of one of the biggest cities in the country of all the Public Schools and they said they are going to start their own Charter School to find out what works best. They have the best Charter Schools and they wont take that information. I was like, why is everybody starting and they are all getting to the same thing. Mike feinberg, they are all coming to the same conclusions. Theres so much overlap in the best practices category. You dont have to figure out how to do heart surgery. Someone else did that already so lets do it as an extra field. You start with what i think is a presumption that people hear this Public Schools are not working. The Public SchoolTeachers Unions are protecting teachers are not the students. I did and say that. I see thats a presumption that Charter Schools are better than traditional Public Schools and if you pick up kids like i try to do with our family worry you try to help them. What was the last thing you said . Traditional schools, people think Charter Schools are better. What i am setting up here is your chance to tell the truth that the presumption is that Charter Schools are better than traditional schools. Opportunity scholarships which are basically vouchers at the washington Jesuit School the parents will do what they can but the rest is helped by other people to get a good education so we are looking for opportunities for kids to really want to work and give them some help. It seems to me you dont think these cliched ideas, we can change schools by going from public to charter and pick up the baskets and help them. You have a very democratic argument in your book which is the bottom quintile has to be helped. The gap is frightening. Its not that we take the top one or two quintiles and boost them and make them Success Stories but the gap the frightening thing is in america there will be this gap and we must not just help the elite or the a students, we have to get the kids who have the Biggest Challenges coming from poverty families. We should point out that poverty is an explanation for most poor performance. Its not iq, its poverty. This audience is pretty liberal i think so i think i mean liberal and a good sense. They dont have fixed positions. Tell me why what i laid out is the problem. Randi weingarten and politics affects teachers recommend students and doesnt understand you have to help. I am for the elite kids. I meet them and they are poised and confident and smart and ready to work. I say do you go to Catholic School and the kids says yeah. I dont want to go to Catholic School. Ive been there but i think its coming from undisciplined backgrounds need that discipline. Here is my prejudices. Im laying them out. Families that come with disorganization of school need to go to organization of school more than what im able willing to put up with like nuns mad. Where do we start . [laughter] no, no there are so many things i want to say about what you said. First of all we started this and we went at it because i went to sit down with everybody. Anybody on all levels and just say what works, what works and everyone had a different set of things and everyone was giving opinions. I said thats great. I want to know what the facts are and what was really interesting is that no one really had the whole handle on the whole list and yet these are the top people in the field. That was fascinating. Why is there an assumption that it hasnt been proven yet . The first thing we did is we decided to take our Research Efforts and get interns and get researchers and gather all the information so we could put it all on the table. Lets get all the Research Classroom size, this, that in the other thing, everything you can think of. Try the categories. Its hundreds and hundreds of articles and trials organizing and looking at it. We got it all together, two years of that and its just a mess. You have one thing here that says it does work and you have one here that says it doesnt work. What are we looking at . Im feeling like they are feeling. Im going to go intuitively through this and cut it. I know what works for my kid so im going to implement that. That is not where you want to be so you need to step back. We are at a moment where that would have been the impasse in the book i talk about this moment. [inaudible] its like that moment. We were at dinner with our friends who are the brilliant doctors and one of them teaches in residence he says when they first come in is i need you to know something. We are talking about education by the way. He said i need you guys to know something. Tell your patience this. If they do these five things, sleep eight hours a day, exercise three times a day, have a balanced diet, dont smoke and be cognizant of your Mental Health and your work environmenf your if you do these five things your chances of getting all these jobs to such an incredible level it needs every pill and treatment ever created. They said i dont believe it and he said heres all the data but this is the thing after member. If you dont do one of them the chances go back to the norm. That is where it went and i went oh my god thats what we are looking for. We are looking for a set of things because its a system. The body is a system that wants to be healthy. Every Inner City School district is working the same way. Its working as a system so how does the system worked . Then we spent the next few years looking at the data and billing are there sets of things that you see . When this trial was done i got a positive report and it was done with this and we started linking it. When you looked at it under that Health Care Paradigm which is probably a system paradigm you saw it. It started to emerge and we started to go wow that works, that small school works when you do this and when you do this. If youd do one of them you will get a lot of false positives wit