Creditors plus the federal loans cannot be solved on the secondary market it does not come up very often. Host what do you teach in New York University . Guest american studies mostly labor studies. Host what is the definition of creditocracy . Guest good question. Creditocracy is my term the world that we live in an increasingly witches the majority of the people that are in debt that cannot be repaid. The simplest response to say this is unfair. But to my mind it is the wrong question to ask because for our creditors it is clear they dont want us to pay off the debt entirely the reason they want the monthly balance there is no profit there wanted to be revolving there is an industry term for people who cannot make ends meet the dont pay the minimum or though late fee or the penalty to never pay down the principle. They keep the sun as long as possible. Host how big is the u. S. Personal that . Guest it depends who you ask people zero small amounts of money and a very limited income with investors daily with the significant obstacle to access basic needs. That the number of people in that category we have about 12 trillion worth of household debt. That number fell a little bit. With the financial crisis in. When did we become a nation that personal debt was a way of living . Every always been that way . Guest no. And for the average familys that was to borrow that. With the long wave of credit the expansion of credit for all the social goods like credit cards. And with the most graphic increase and reese of the financial crash to run off a cliff that would not have fallen. And then cheap credit was taken away. And then to say what kind of crisis developed. May continue to be in that crisis mode. Should people me responsible . Isnt that their responsibility . It is but also relies on the other side. We have a system whereby lenders have to make loans to profit. So the last five years between the fraudulent sale and the deceit so the record of fraudulent is on going so we have to ask for the reasons beyond our control or is a dead delinquency on the other side for the a understanding of knowledge they will never be repaid . Host professors should all personal debt be forgiven . Guest no. That is what i try to focus on in the book. It tries to work through moral arguments to distinguish to make the case that should be paid back the case is to tell. Through the spectrum. Some of the arguments are in the sphere of sovereign debt. That there has been a movement and those of various groups with the forgiveness of the external debt. If it is the aggregate of the debt to believe that makes those arguments more legitimate because some governments like ecuador put together that commission to decide which were legitimate and what were not. But it to customize some of those arguments to apply them to the household that debt to find out what is legitimate to the creditor and watch to provide some social benefit. Host canned of banks or the wonders be a forprofit . Guinea the ideal society we have a more system in certainly in the public bank all over the world one that has operated continuously for the better part of one century of north dakota. And we have the federal Credit Unions of course, that operate on a nonprofit basis with Credit Delivery for the need for community so there is no need for a forprofit motivation to be part of the industry and ideally the evidence suggest it is better. Host in your book creditocracy you talk about payday lenders. Guest yes. It is a huge problem of course,. Especially in the case of low income population. One of the arguments i make in my book is the Education Loan the student let debt is it is a premature form of wage theft because for most people creditors lay claim far in advance of their future we have to surrender our lives to personal Debt Financing is the further surrender of this claim to creditors with a few cats fruits of our labor we have yet to perform with compensation rehab not yet earned so the debtors movement is very similar to the Labor Movement in the heyday of the we had gotten very little odd of the azeri quest. But in response to parents who would ask us what the problem is why they have to pay a sum much for tuition . I would say every family and student has a right to know how the dollars are spent and we should have audits of the kind of institutional debts that the universities are holding and there are conflicts. How big is the Debt Collection industry in the u. S. . I dont have the figures off the top of my head then it is one of the more of unscrupulous. Relearned a little bit of Debt Collection from the jubilee project and we know how the agents by it pennies on the dollar the last ones for less than 3 . As a result of the publicity that we generate through that project now they are much more aware of how little they pay for that debt so when they call you up to harass you you know, that they have paid a penny is on the dollar and they ask for the full dollar from new. So when you know, that even if you only pay 3 they still make off like bandits. They dont lose money even if they just collect a small amount. Host what protections to consumers have . Guest the Us Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that collection industry is one of the factors that has been scrutinizing and is beginning to prosecute. We have always hoped that in terms of federal oversight there is an agency now that is responsible for that. And it does that have a lot of power but it comes into existence so they go after the forprofit colleges that is one of the worst offenders in fact, our student debt bought this summer to the Corinthian College system that was up for Profit Network the federal government pulled the plug this summer and it went bust grieving students high and dry. So we try to help them in some way in the private project so the students could pursue. Host if people are interested in your jubilee project is there of webbs eight web site . It is just in the pilot stages right now but you can see then a jubilee web site and thinking of the affirmation and then shoots insure their trust. Host the name of the book is creditocracy. Professor from New York University. Thank you. Host now joining us by satellite is the author of this childrens book, who are your parents . My father is now the max malcolm x. Host what do you remember about your father . I remember my father coming home he was very tall. Six ft. Four and very tall presences always smiling. And sharing cookies together. I had a doll and a rocking chair. Fortunately it dont remember but i was writing i realized it did have the impact because i was four or five years old by remember when might all coal was leaving it was traumatizing. I would cry and control the blaze though somehow the must have been indicative of the missing my father malcolms father he was the president of the branch of the movement and he helped markets get up to the jail for alleged did mail fraud he was an activist of preacher all these great things. Host how did he die . Guest they say he was killed by the black collegian like the kkk and during the great depression. It was not the greatest situation. Host did your father remember that . Guest he did talk about it in his autobiography. They foresee have as this great protector and provider and then to take speeches and then