Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On Circle Of Treason

Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On Circle Of Treason 20140217

The investigation exposed one of the most destruction operations and that is aims. He has been serving a life sentence now. It is an account of the men he betrayed. Gene passed away at the end of 2012, but their story gained fresh attention as result of the eightpart abc mini series that started airing last month. There has been a lot of focus on women at the cia. The movie woman dark 30 played on the role of women tracking down bin laden and homeland revolves around a female agent. Her drama lacked compared to these shows. And one of the conditions in putting together assets was she have no affairs. Old school there. Sandy remaining a very bright and determined intelligence professional who did our country a very great service. Review of her book in the Washington Times called circle of treason people joining me in welcoming sandy grimes. [ applause ] thank you very much. Can everybody hear me . All right. I am going to take my glasses off so i can see my notes. I am delighted to be here to talk about our book circle of treason. Before i get started, my remarks are going to be brief because i want to leave time for your questions. I want to say i am hear to represent my good friend and coauthor gene fay. As i tell you about our journey to determine who cause the loss of our soviet assets and what led us to search for a trader in the cia. We knew he wouldnt be a stra e stranger but a coworker, colleague and someone we knew very well. But the circle of treason isnt just about how we identified a sp spry. We were able to tell the stories of contacts with the victims. We participated in a number of handling of the searches and we watches as those who knew who were executes. Always concerned we might have made a mistake but led to their death, but i have to be hop hontest that is what a number of us had to do for years until your mole was yet to be identified. We know it is oliver james or rick as he was known to us. He was a colleague and me and him were carpool partners. And rick aims decided to walk to the front door of the soviet union and volunteer his services to the soviet union. Two months later, he decided to provide his kbg handlers with the names of or identifying information on every single human sources reporting on the soviet union. Those who were currently reporting, those who were retired and those who were do dormant. He knew they would face a trial and be executed with a bullet to the back of the head. Now, it is 1985 and the nightmare begins. Late may, gru asset in athens, greece receives a cable saying you are to return to moscow. We bring him safely to the United States. Earlier august, juke from nigeria is arrested in moscow during a home leave. Sometime between august and october, our aspect in portugal sl also arrested in moscow during a home leave. November 26th, a flight bound to moscow over and back, short trip, but we never see him again. Again, early november, kbg asset in bond with germany travels to east berlin for a threeday conference. He disappears. And into february of 1996. Our asset is arrested in moscow. June or july. Rgu asset in moscow is arrested again. July 7th, 1986 our long retired gru asset is arrested in moscow one day after his 66th birthday. He is the highest ranking Intelligence Officer for the soviet union the government has ever run. And into 1987, our asset, also in moscow, also long retired, is arrested. So here we are. It is the end of 1985 and something is seriously wrong obviously. Two possible explanations we either have a human penetration of the cia or our communications have been compromised; in other words they are reading our traffic. What do we do . Our first action was taken in response to a new volunteer. January of 1986, an agent volunteered. We have no idea if this is a traitor or a technical penetration so we have to guard against each possible. With respect to the trader side of the equation we institute what we still to this day call jekonian security measures where we eliminate everybody aware of the new asset. We have to address the technical side as well. With respect to Staff Communications and the possibility they are reading the traffic on the soviet cases. We punted this one and ignored Staff Communications. He didnt there was zero cable traffic between head quarter and the field station where the new asset was located. We went back to the basics. We say it wasnt the stonea age but it was this close. We did have something sort of out of this world at the time. We have our new asset and we are keeping this one alive. Enter my coauthor who is on assignment in garbone as our chief of station. She returns to Head Quarters in 1986 and she is tapped with trying to determine what in the heck happened. She has a Small Task Force of people who begin this effort. At the same time, gene and her people are looking at our losses, they fbi has also established a task force. They had the same problems with their soviet cases during the same time period as we. Now we will have to fast forward. It is early 1991, a little over five and a half years later. And we still do not have a clue as to what happened. Not a clue. That is not to say that there were not plenty of explanations or leads. There were lots. Each was fully investigated. And each was discarded. Meanwhile, the fbi also doesnt have a clue as to what caused their losses. There is a bit of good news, however. We have not lost a single new source since implementing the security measures. And a number of our reporting sources on the soviet union had continued to increase and we were able to keep every single one of them alive. Because of this, there were some people in senior positions in cia who believed that what happened in 1985 and 1986 was largely a historical problem. It might be nice to know the answer. But it wasnt effecting our current operations. We were doing just fine. We were once again back in business. Enter gene again. She was facing mand pp tto mand retirement. She was still suffering from not be able to answer why we had all of the lossess. She wanted to spend time before her mandatory retirement looking at the cases again. It would only be gene looking at the old records. However that was soon to change. And again, i have to be honest, it was due to happenstance that i ended up working with gene, looking for the answer, as did two fbi employees; one a special agent and one a soviet analyst. We added a fifth member to our little task force eventually. A cia officer from the office of security. The book takes you through our search for a trader. Out of 160 cia employees who had access to information about one or more of our lost cases. The investigation was, and i will use one of genes favorite words, was really pronged. It involved months of mind numbing work with the occasional nugget that kept us going. That is not to say there wasnt a eureakia moment. At the time i was given the task of creating a timeline of all of ricks activities from 1985present which was 1992. That particular august morning, i was able to connect meetings, the dates of meetings rick was having with a soviet developmental contact here in washington, d. C. With cash deposits he had made two one of his local checking accounts. This was the first link that would lead to his arrest to his conviction. It was cache. Cast every deposit, and we only had three, everyone was below the 10,000 reporting requirement the feds put on the bank at the time. All right. Lastly, we gene and i ever afraid he was going to get away with treason . You bet we were. We were drawing to a close in 1993 and several months prior the fbi analyst began to repair a report of our findings. This was not a cia document. It was an official fbi document because we were turning everything over to them. Gene and i did have a say in the dress stages of that paper, but the final wording was beyond our control. As we understood it, when the report came out in march 1993, it did want identify rick aims as the primary suspect. It did however have his name on a short list of other possible suspects. We spent two years looking for this person and our analysis proved that to be the case. We also knew, obviously, the fbi didnt share our beliefs and would continue to focus on their short list. But thankfully and truly is thankfully Additional Information became available which didnt identify rick, but it certainly pointed in his direction. And most importantly it forced the fbi to open a fullscale investigation on rick aims. One year later, february 21st, 1994, president s day, the government holiday, and we were at work. Rick aims was arrested by the fbi around the corner from his house. He was on his way to cia Head Quarters to answer. Not too long after that his wife was arrested at their home. Both pled guilty to espionage. The wife received five years and upon her release she was stripped of her u. S. Citizenship and deported to columbia. Rick received life. And you know, i was just thinking it is almost 20 years. Coming up on 20 years. He is at alan allenwood, pennsylvania, still residing there. Gene and i are most proud we have been finally given permission to be able to tell the story of our assets. They are about real people and spying and contribution. And most importantly, and as gene and i and so many others at cia understood, who these soviet Intelligence Officer volunteered their services to the United States government, they knew they were putting their lives in our hands and we, meaning the cia, failed them. We could not repay them for their sacrifices and certainly couldnt repay their family for losses. But we owed each and everyone an answer. That was our goal. That was our mission and that is the story of the circle of truth. This happened over 20 years ago. With data mining and predictive analytics, do you think that would have helped you in your search . Not at all. I will use this as an example rick aims had no personal meetings here in washington, d. C. All of the personal meetings with his kbg handlar were abroad. However we managed, just like bob hanson, if you keep it simple it tends to work. The basics dont fail you in spying. He loaded drops. He made signal sites. He unloaded drops. And he had complete technical coverage by the fbi and they are very good at that. I mean the phones were bugged, there were cameras everywhere and it wasnt just his house, it was at cia Head Quarters. There were beacons on his car. All of that stuff, no, not in terms of the spying we did. Questions, please [inaudible question] increase affluence and i am questions about how people san antonio people couldnt see the increased consumption. You read about his red jag in the papers. Lets put it this way, rick, as i said, he walked in and started to work for the soviets in april 1985. You saw zero change in rick aims until he returned from a tour in rome in 1989. He was still the rick aims i had always known. Truly. But rick said this was his cover story. That he had gotten the money from his wifes family. Her father had died in the mid80s. We knew they were from a wellconnected family in columbia. As a matter of fact, the family as it turned out, it was the extended family, gave the land to build the largest soccer field in bogaton. He met rick when they were both assi assigned to columbia city. She got her appointment from the president of columbia. So it wasnt out of the question some of the money came from her side of the family. But i always say this with respect to the red jag. Rick and i parked in the same garage. And this is while we were on the task force. I had to walk past three jags before i got to my car and one was ricks. This wasnt out of the ordinary. And the name, and i might add this, with respect to ricks drinking. Gene and i had known him for over 20 years. I socialized with rick a little. We were not close in friends, but we were close in age. Even at the christmas parties, which were nice affairs, i never saw rick drunk, ever. I think he was a binge drinker. And whenever his wife was out of the country or town he would get drunk. It was, i think, sort of this, i owe myself won. I never met his wife, but she was apparently so difficult. Her lawyers couldnt stand her. And even the people listening in on the phone they thought rick was abused. If you would told me rick aims was going to be one of the worst traders this country as seen i would have said not the rick aims i knew which was since 1973. Were there other people around you other than rick aims that drew more suspicious thoughts . And have you thought about what makes him stand out against the others in that he seems to not suspect today such an extreme dream . Do you know what happened to his wife now in columbia . I dont have a clue but i would expect she is alive and well and living the good life. They did have one child. Paul is his name. He is in his 20s now. After ricks arrest. But it worked. What we did was we ask, we had the four members of our little task force, sandy, jeanne, and the two jims from the fbi, and six other individuals. Four from cia, two from the fbi. We asked thement them to please privately write down on a piece of paper. Im almost embarrassed to tell the story. The name of five or six people who made them uneasy. Dont forget, were looking for a traitor here. And made them uneasy and individuals they thought we should take a close look at first. Okay. Then we asked them to please put them in rank or door. The one that made you the most uneasy, first place, second, and so on down. As we say, of it not a contest you wanted to win. We took the submissions, we totaled all the numbers, and a real surprise. Rick came out on top. He had the most points 21. And i will toot my own horn here. As i say, i will use genes words all those who voted on sandy gets the gold star. She him them in first place. Now, here we are. We have new short list. Rick wasnt the only one who got more than one or two points. What we did, we looked at the small group first. Eventually it became the primary target. Our primary focus. That is not to say that we didnt continue to look at the rest of the people. By this time about 150 or 2000 on the list. We concentrated on those on the short list. That is sort of how it got sorted out. Thank you. Yeah . So these events were 85, 86, 87, and the task force was formed four people were formed when . 91. 11. I got there in may and i think the bureau guys not at the end of june. A time line question how long did the four of you meet and it follows this yes, before you diser reed in and thought he was prime . Like was it immediately because of it was about a year. About a year. It was less than a year. It was less than a year. Because the eureka moment came a little bit more than a year. Then there was no question. Then there was no question. Well, there wasnt a question to sandy and jeanne. [inaudible] exactly. Then what happened the bureau in 1993 came in after we got that Additional Information. They got the fie is a approval. Then it was truly an investigative affair. Obviously were very involved with the justice department, and the attorney. Because they want evidence to be able to prove espionage charge. Its one of the wore cases in the world you have to try. They have to catch them in the act. But we didnt. How if they vet the members in the program to make sure you werent the mole . There must have been unbelievable. How did they take a chance im curious. I have to say youre the second person to ever ask me the question. I think it is a great question. Because it would be the first i would ask. We had to be repolllied it was crazy. We were fortune that she and i knew almost all the sources. We had been doing different thicks. Things. She was in. So she was unaware of some of these new sources. The current ones. And i was handling all of our activity related to soviet east europeans in africa. Now, i certainly was aware of one of the cases. He was one my branch was responsible for keeping alive. That was cocial who was in lagos nigeria. I was aware of that. Because we had insufficient knowledge but youre correct. We both did have to be repolllied. We had it had been determined that sandy and gene were going to Work Together and the fbi guys were going to come over. So then we got news so you to have a polygraph. I will never forget that day. I said and gene said youll do fine, sandy. I said because thats i have to go first. [laughter] but i got a speeding ticket on that day on the way to the polygraph office. Yes. The five of you the agency aware you were in the middle of it or kept no. We didnt keep it from anybody. And i think that is an important distinction. This was not going to be a paper exercise. Like the first time around. We were looking for a human penetration of cia. Rick was aware of it. We interviewed rick. We cant use that word. The bureau didnt like us to word. We talked to people aware of operations to gather more information about how paper was handled. You know, you can read what it says in the file. Now days an email. You really dont know the interaction of people. Yeah . So two questions. Im surprised that he could walk to the soviet embassy in washington, d. C. , and didnt twhawnt embassy under surveillance. Two, im wondering for there was a moment before he was arrested when he realized you knew who he was. Or if not, what was it like to have to work once you realized it was him you hadnt he had minute arrested yet. How difficult was it to have to deal with him . It was more than difficult, you know, i think most the time were pretty good actor and actresses. That was tough. And i will say personally confession. I smoked during those days. [laughter] and you couldnt spoke in the building. I would go out to the courtyard to have my cigarette. Rick was a very heavy smoker. And because were friends, you know, acquaint he would come over. How are you doing today, sandy. How is the search going . I stopped smoking. [laughter] [applause] i was so afraid i was going to mess it up. So i stopped but, you know, in hindsight i didnt have a thing to worry about. Rick was so arrogant. There was no way that two ladies and add two fbi guys are ever going to catch me. It was really that. And then first part oh the surveillance. Okay. Youre absolutely right. The bureau has coverage. What did rick do . After he leaves the soviet union leaves the soviet embassy. He calls his buddies. I would assume its the Washington Field office i dont know. And said if you see a guy went to the embassy at 1 15 p. M. Today, it is i. Now, he had sort of an excuse for being there. Sort of. We, at cia headquarter, never knew that he walk to the embassy until later during the investigation. You know, when the bureau was basically handling things. However, at the Time Beginning in early 1985, rick was developing, as said, a soviet national. He was an arms control specialist. There was nothing out of the ordin

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