And ran for the District Attorney in Northern Colorado and worked there 10 years and in 2014 iran for the house seat. Host you had a Health Crisis that influenced your decision so tell us more about that. In 2013 i had cancer stage for hodgkins lymphoma and as i recovered from that i started to question what do want to do . Well i advocate for term limits here in requires you to think that 52 years old what do i want to do with the rest of my life . I decided i wanted to run for office. Host you are in good health now quite. I am in great health. Thank you. So what defiant . The first thing right after the election all the numbers were brought together there was one lavish party after another the message is very clear if you are willing to play the game life can be a very comfortable existence but the game is to agree with leadership and specialinterest but i am not one of those people that is very agreeable soil was not interested in doing that achene to washington d. C. To have a passion to reduce the size and scope of the federal government it was much more difficult for me in the first term in d. C. Than other people. So in what way was it conveyed to you crack. When you show up in the army choir it is singing there is beef tenderloin and salmon and all sorts of waiters and out call as much as you wanted to consume and then in the caucus room is a beautiful bloom in the house chambers it is a clear message for the word given deaths from the time that you arrive from leadership that says thank you for your sacrifice i have never consumed as many calories as i did during orientation. For you are told quickly you dont vote against your party rules. Calcite get the same instructions and the idea is the most important thing you can do is get reelected and the most important thing is to make sure you play the game. Host slated is to be in line with your party so it is an understanding of what they expect of you . Thats right with the parties of the National Archives and then they speak to the group there is a feeling of being special as a member of congress when youre constantly given special privileges. Host you dont hold back in this book read it and you use some tough language to describe the men and women such as members of congress are happy alligators that feel pretty darned comfortable in the swamps of washington. Guest i dont mean they are alligators if you have those surroundings you get comfortable in the situation but one way to earn that comfort is to spend more money and progovernment and to create programs and take credit for those programs whether they are efficient or effective take credit. So for many members of congress are here it is the best job they ever had the highest paying job they ever had and the job they dont want to develop so the reelection is more important than the actual problem solving that needs to go on. Host you write that influence comes with the price tag. You talk about the dues that they must pay to secure and retain their seats on the influential committees. Also talk about those dues that are required and how they klein and how you deal with that. Both the Republican Democratic party have do is based on assignments if you are on the Committee Like appropriations the dues for the republican is 450,000 per person zero lower committee is too hundred thousand per person to be a chair you have to pay 1. 2 billion dollars for the privilege. The way you raise that money is have events in washington d. C. You have receptions to represent special interest they, and donate money to you. Lobbyist dont show up to those receptions there is a way to coerce the numbers by having the are rages deuce it encourages them to vote as lobbyists and special interest want you to vote xx were on the rules committee and you pay your dues so how would you pay those . If you feel that the lobbyists ask you to vote what do you do quite. I am fortunate in colorado we have to even stirring election cycle we have private individuals come together for the events for the house of representatives. I dont for deceptions for the purpose to hold my dues along with the other three members from colorado our dues are paid by holding those to defense events teeseventeen think there will influence the colorado delegation . I am not 100 percent sure bet i can remember so we have individuals the support the Republican Party that believe the republican should be in the majority. I dont think it is wrong to expect members of the house to raise money for the party to win the majority and the same thing with democrats. That is the reality of politics but what i find offensive is the linkage between raising many and assignment to the committee or the chairmanship or to be in leadership. There has to be a marriage based system and placed to decide who gets on what committee if you spend there 30 years you have expertise that is needed on energy and commerce it is not if you can pay more money should not be the determining factor. Host as a freshman member, it did you pay . Guest 200,000. Host you have described although your eyes are trained on john boehner but you talk about taking overseas trips and committee ships and including your position as president of the freshman class your first year so can you describe what happened in your case and how you dealt with that . In it was an attempt to unseat me as the president entering data orientation that i described earlier i was elected president of the freshman class there were four other members who were elected to different positions is a wideopen job you do what you can to bring people together but there is no real job description. So then they tried to take it away now it is a competition and it became more meaningful at that point so i had the votes to win if it was called so i was notified there would be a meeting in this cave on the heels against putting on the trade Promotion Authority bill it was a vote that leadership was very mad the Freedom Caucus was voting against them so the subcommittee chairmanship was taken away and for members from the Freedom Caucus as a result of the rule there were a number of actions taken against individuals it shows the petty retaliation involved with that kind of vote. Host what did you say to house leadership that the time . Guest what did you say to them . We had a lot of conversations frankly it is a surprise when it happens. House leadership has a job to do part of that is to maintain party the bishop they need to govern as best they can but the problem with the president from the other party it is difficult to govern the have to move to the center for those of us would like to move to the center it is hard to get the votes needed, get the democrats to vote with them. So that was a bad position leadership was in. So your book came out onto say i am curious about the reaction from your colleagues per. Meno in session at the moment. That is a good thing. [laughter] guided if you tax messages and for sales i have not heard anything from leadership i will probably have conversations with everybody returns. Youll the did to the Freedom Caucus of the group of about 35 for 40 house members have taken a stand against the house leadership notably like the john bain resignation and some Freedom Caucus members rejected to the obama repeal and replace bill forcing that to be pulled from the for president ial little different than other members . You were hearing from folks even before it was published little but not much occasionally they would walk up to say did you mention me in the book . A did my best to avoid mentioning names in the book all the way do talk about some members of lot of anecdotes and stories but in terms of throwing people under the bus this is been going on sobol in both parties that for me the important thing is to change the institution people are generally good people when they come to congress and are well meaning but the institution perhaps in the need to change parts of the institution. Host nine no one of your concerns is the last of discipline through the appropriations process we note that the radius to work was appropriations committees would pass 12 separate bills funding the government but that does not happened since the mid 1990s it is a continuing resolution or a big package that pulls together the appropriations and then we sea in recent years a shutdown so the next stop gap measure to keep the lights on april 28 that is another deadline and congress. What about the consequences of making spending decisions it is the wrong way to do it it is managing by crisis we have been promised for a number of years that we deal with each appropriations bill in the house they do with the bills then become together and vote on the bills one final time by having a continuing resolution we have very little time to read the document very few members know what is hidden in the document and the benefits the special Interest Groups and those in leadership that can figure out how to put it into the continuing resolution doesnt benefit the people of the representatives. I did talk about one example of a drug company fell got a bushel provision a special provision that they had given a lot of money to leadership in the senate and they could get the provision into the omnibus bill and it was a tremendous with the small amount of money that they gave 60,000 year intact made tens of millions of dollars. It is a Business Savvy decision but it does not benefit the American People but waste taxpayer dollars. There are solutions and the book it is important to disengage Committee Assignments from the dues. I have a problem paying dues or supporting the party in its efforts but i have a big party a big problem so i have written a letter to the Ethics Committee asking them to make it an ethical when making the assignment to a committee or a chairmanship position and i hope that we do that. Host what is the likelihood . Said you had any response . I sent it a couple of months ago and i have not had a response yet. We have a lot of major issues that have taken attention away from those issues that we face a life plan on going to the chairman of the Ethics Committee to talk about this and plan on getting other members on board to show support we will see if we can get that passed but it is a process that people need to think through and a link which has to be carefully crafted. I dont want to create a rule with an unintended consequence or somebody else suffers as a result. Host what you mentioned earlier i gather this is something you would like to see what what is the appropriate amount of time in congress with term limits lot of the bills that are out there that i support those but some of them are too short we have to be realistic if you have the speaker of the house third in line to the presidency that person should have served a sufficient number of years to have learned the entire system. It is not practical for a speaker to serve four years become speaker for two years that would empower the staff that they see the bureaucracy of the executive branch so we have to be careful but it is hard to pinpoint the exact number i think 12 or 14 or 16 years is fair when you Start Talking about 30 years there are members that have been around since nixon was in peach and that is a long time to be in the swap. Does that give them Institutional Knowledge . I think they are ready institution. Theyre both learning but they also learn ways to avoid a accountability and manipulate the system when you get more comfortable you are less accountable to the people that your present. Host so clearly it is to make a lot of friends. Would this be deeply offensive to some of your colleagues that you describe these terms i did not come here to make friends. I did not have friends when i came here. I came here to do with job this is an indication of that. Hired an outsider to be president because they did not trust the insiders and that sends a clear message. Host the title of your book drain the swamp is the theme that we heard from President Trump campaign what about his performance as we hit the 100 day mark . It is very difficult to say people want to look bad day snapshot and predict but it is difficult to say good things or bad things of this point. From my perspective he made a Great Supreme Court nomination with judge corset from colorado will be a great justice. He has done a great job to pick his cabinet a wish the senate would confirm the more quickly he doesnt have administration in place to run the government so really it is difficult to judge his first 100 days but he has done a good job of sending a signal to the world that america will be actively engaged and not put up with him and atrocities and let other companies countries use biological weapons without a response that is a clear message the president sent and in terms of the ethics involved with washington d. C. He will talk about certain things and we will see if those are done but limiting the years or 2. About entry on the number of years you can lobby the agency worked for is a good idea and congress should adopt that. Host and they also should that puts a limit because one year in the house and i think two years from the senate so you would like to see that barrier that of former member can never become a lobbyist . Did meg the president talks five years that is a good time period it requires you leave congress and go do something else. And make a distinction between being involved with issues are lobbying someone that would be driven is a love for Public Policy even enough to say go do something for five years if you lobby for the Interest Group you should have to wait a certain period of time. Bollenbach to the Freedom Caucus members that were concerned about the initial Health Care Bill because i know there was not a vote cast but explain your position from other members of the Freedom Caucus. I was opposed to the original bill but i thought it got better over time and gave states more flexibility and ultimately provided Better Health care to individuals in this country. Also beyond those four corners of the legislation with the Supreme Court nominee i thought the president deserved initial victory to give him some momentum and specifically tax reform so we would support this bill in terms of regulation of the initial effort but the challenges of the Health Care Area of the budget reconciliation to get something passed through the senate. But to pass a full repeal or replacement. So i describe it in the book as petty retaliation because it isnt life changing at all in the same with the tweet i think that the people in eastern colorado know me, and know who i am, and know i have been in d. C. And they support me. And if the president tweets about something negative about ken buck, i think it is going to be minimal impact and i think that the president has made an interesting decision because the day that the day was poled he had a press concerns and he said no im not mad at the Freedom Caucus theyre my friends and week later he tweets something. So im not sure what psychological is involved in that but regardless i think that Freedom Caucus are going to be allies with president on most that he tries to accomplish. You think health care will come up quickly . Come up again quickly i hope it passes and send it to the senate and see what the senate does with it. Back to the book one with of your Top Priorities seems to encourage your readers to join the article five movement. And that is to get state legislature to call for convention of the states to consider amendment to the constitution including a balanced Budget Amendment. Talk to me a little bit about how that might work and also their concerns that this could lead to a runway conventionon that people can decide to, you know, take another the look at gun rights and whether there is a Second Amendment right to armsover whether gay marriage is constitutional. So how would this work and how do you avoid it running away . So article five of the constitution is the article that kriebs how a constitution could be amend. First way is what we view so far in this countrys history and that is for a measure to pass the house and senate with identical language and then sent to the states for ratification. Now we would need 38 states to ratify amendment to the constitution. The orr way is for the state lught legislature to get together and twothirds to Petition Congress per for a convention of the states. That petition would list a very specific area to be debated at the convention and would not be an a open ended lets rewrite the United States constitution and really the way to make sure that it doesnt become a away convention is not only that it stick to its original purpose. But also that 38 states have to ratify whatever comes of that convention to the idea that were going to change Second Amendment l i can list the the 13 states that would not approve of that. [laughter] and so i think that it is not only prudent for a Constitutional Convention to remain very narrow because whatever creates will not be accepted by majority of the states. But also think theres a stock gap that will encourage to stay fairly narrow. Like the convention to take up are what and sure there are some that advocate for 12 or 13 issues discussed by the issue and if we covered one issue. It would be fine. Two others would be better but i dont think we should go beyond that and first issue id like to see is a balance Budget