revolutionary at a time when people on the left and the right are handwringing about what to do about donald trump who has become president. you wrote a book about how to get things done. tell me why you wanted to do this project. when did you start this project? >> guest: the day after the election. i had meetings planned with my agent, bob burnett, at the big publishers in new york the day after the election which i send donald trump would lose by 10:00 at night. i was probably the only person i can be sure, but i was probably the only person in 30 rock at nbc that night who voted for donald trump and i thought i would be home by 10:00 to do my readers show the next morning. we stayed until 2 a.m. and did much of the next morning. i saw the president speak at two am and was stunned, and if there was, i can sing this paper, if the meeting was like the nfl would also be in the concussion protocol. i went to all this may be expecting the to say thank you very much, we don't need a book on how to rebuild public and party. in they said we don't need a book. and you write a book about what republicans should do with president-elect trump? i can do that. can you do it in 60 days? i can do in 45. what would it be like to have a republican majority and republican president? i did focus the next 45 days, simon & schuster put the boat out on the 24th, the monday after the president was sworn in and it's about what? conservatives ought to do to support the cars, what liberals ought to think about us and how we can get stuff done. >> host: what should liberals think about us? >> guest: that we have the best interest of the country at heart. we care about poor people. we do what people have health insurance. we want the military to be strong. there are ways to accomplish it and if they would open their ears to hearing an argument or read a book like "the fourth way" they might learn that we got a pretty good set of ideas that work repeatedly. the first way was at the ours wake of the government. the way was reagan, pull back to the third way was tony blair and bill clinton, the first way was back but with some conservative trimming around the windows. the forth what is hamiltons way and it is donald trump's which is a big strong federal government doing what ought to do in its enumerated powers and a lot of liberty and a lot of power. >> host: let me make sure you heard you as a conservative you said a big strong federal government. >> guest: in the areas in which powers are enumerated a big navy. 350 ships. and a bigger force, 1400 fighters. and a big part me and huge marine corps so they can kick in the door. a big fence. i want a big fence. i've been arguing that for 10 years any book called painting the map read. build a fence and we never reform immigration. president trump is building a fence. >> host: we'll get into, you have a lot of specifics so we'll get into some of the more nuanced edges but as you mentioned republicans now enjoy a majority. they wield tremendous power. the last time democrats had the white house, the senate and the house, i would say they didn't do much with it. they didn't catch immigration really. no tax reform, no entitlement reform. they didn't even touch guns or climate change really. what should the gop do to avoid sort of sitting on their power and not make the most of this opportunity? .. i think we will get something pure-- your number two, one big thing and i think it will be tax reform. although, some people want to get rid of dodd frank and if we hang onto at the third big thing in the 2019th cycle will be to repeal dodd frank to those are our three big things to undo and what we can do is when we replace obamacare, a national market, which-- the president talked about a race in alliance and you have to understand what is talk about it. you would get it, i get it, but what does that mean? one national market for every insurance product and we can do a great deal on the judiciary with only 51 folks, thanks to senator reed. we can get a great deal done and then the courts can accomplish a great deal of limiting the federal government rule of law? host: back to the democrats and a squandering an opportunity, the things you mentioned they did not do was if i don't recall that one republican supported obamacare, so was that a mistake? is there a lesson there for republicans going forward that these things might be more permanent if we get democratic buy-in? guest: there is a lesson there when it comes to repeal because that which was passed without support can be undone with only our support, but if they want to do something like replace obamacare, it would be good to find a half-dozen to 20 democrats to agree and be brought along. for example, i want immigration overhaul. i think we won't deport 11 million people. was the wall is billed i would like to regularize i don't want to reap-- repeal docket or let people in the country illegally though, so there is a middle ground where you can arrange to export and deport those people who are bad people who have committed felonies more violence in their record, but most of the 11 to 12 billion are not that and probably closer to 90% ago i live in california. i live with illegals every day and i understand the undocumented to be perfectly ordinary people trying to live their lives and improve themselves. i would not trump to deal with democrats on that sake you want to regularize, we will regularize and i'll get these things for obamacare in return. there are deals to be done that would benefit the country and on that it would be useful to have democrats. host: while we are on immigration for so long republicans and democrats have benefited from a broken immigration system running elections on that and fund raise on that and i think people looking at president trump wonder optimistically, maybe, that he does not come without baggage. he sees a problem. he wants to fix it and maybe he will be the president that fixes this broken immigration system, but he will need both parties. guest: let me turn around and ask you a question. whatever donald trump does on immigration i think the charge of embassy bounces off of him. do you agree with that? host: i would think so for many reasons. he has not created a perception that he will be kind on this issue. guest: the nixon to china moment comes and if only next it could sit down and not be accused of city-- being soft on the red and only trump can do an immigration deal and not be accused of amnesty, i mean, some people will. but, no one will hear him. host: on some of the specifics, you lay out, most would require more spending. guest: yes. host: infrastructure, the military, so i am a start of the beast conservative, so explain to me the value of more spending to get what we want. guest: most of the long-term deficit despite entitlement reform in the last chapter of the book is about raising the retirement age sequentially over many years incrementally to where it's 70 to 72 given what's happened with human aging. doing things that will reform entitlement, block it granting medicaid to the states with a limit on what they get and reform medicare with vouchers and i'm not afraid of the v word. was not a lot of money is $85 million and that's since eight-- president obama got a hundred 50 million my argument is to give them one to have what we did president obama, 85 billion, and let him spend it through local agencies that he controls and he will build trump trophies. 85 billion is not a lot of money. rebuilding the military is. we ought to be willing to put 4% of its gdp or maybe more. we are a day to an half percent low into its national defense, so it's a lot of money. epa, cut cut cut, agriculture, cut cut cut , u.s. fish and wildlife, there is a lot of money to be cut, but i would give him what i call non- committed discretionary dollars to do with as the president promised he would do. host: and on that infrastructure, he talked about this at his campaign with somewhat publicans worried about how much he would spend in the early days how do you think it's shaping out to look, what donald trump lets do an immigration and if he has democratic support to do it. guest: on this very day i got a call from a republican congressman, senior conservative unnamed, worried about spending and read about the need for a under donald trump and mike argument is he one, he campaigned on a few things specifically the wall and another is 350 ships in the navy and the other is as infrastructure, basically nothing else and trade deals and boy do i disagree on trade. ima free trade. i did not like that he got out of tt p, but he won and he's doing what he said. my argument is the only office elected nationally and if he runs on a specific things he gets a mandate. ronald reagan ran on eight huge navy and tax cut and he got those things. president obama and on a stimulus and obamacare and he got those things and when you when you get what you want to keep in tag on details, but it may be short-term expensive and long-term advantageous. host: there are republicans that are worried? guest: very much. host: big government conservative. guest: even bigger than george w bush and there's a lot of republicans that don't believe he's a republican. on the stage i would sit there and listened him talk about things and spending-- ima paul ryan republican, i'm a reagan republican, liberty republican. host: morning america's. that's not what we heard on a map-- inauguration day. guest: but, he won and i understand that american carnage. the speech startled me. what did you think? host: i like many parts, but as a conservative it didn't really capture the optimism i think a lot of his supporters have going into tomorrow. guest: we listened to it on my radio show and in fact he made me listen to and he made me read reagan's first inaugural and i had forgotten this because when reagan took over from carter inflation was going along at 14% and the like which he, he did not use carnage, but used a lot of word like destruction and destroyed. it was a dark speech or four years lady it's morning america so i listened without and i also thought about moonlight. have you seen the light movie? host: no. guest: i think it will win best picture, i hope it will. it's about a eight-year old african-american child with a crackhead mom who sexual orientation is up for grabs and he is gay and he doesn't know what that means and he lives in a drug infested neighborhood. host: make me want to see it because you are not. guest: it's a story of how to survive and it takes an affluent anglo like me to a world i never go to nor have ever seen an great movies do that. they take you someplace you've never been or can go. host: there is some redemption, i hope the. guest: there is some redemption and it may not be what you would approve up, but there is redemption and compassion and it shows american carnage is not about white america. it's about all of america suffering under the drug culture and grinding conditions of lawlessness. trump is correct, there is a lot of the country and anglo america, jd vance is is about hamilton ohio. on from ohio mall-- zero how. and opioid epidemic and his mom was a drug abuser, six dads, his natural father gave him up. he said hillbilly grandmother and grandfather with violence every night guns everywhere being sent screaming and yelling, dysfunctional family getting worse. the carnage in america is real. trump called it out and he wants to fix it. host: that book resonated a lot, but i just read today that the illinois governor said that trump has not called about the violence in chicago and they have not had that discussion. let me grant president trump is only like a couple days into his presidency and he's already done a lot, but do you see the words translating into action when it comes to those connections he made with people in the rust belt at blue-collar manufacturers? guest: yes, i saw the first day he did more outreach for van president obama did in a year to his opposition. when he brought in the carpenters union, steelworkers union the cross, he brought in that craftsman and i grew up in uniontown. yet the plumber's people in and these are men and women who build the things and work with their hands and he is expanding his coalition and i believe my light touch industrial policy again conservative, but if you do a corporate tax cut paul ryan speaker told me they want a five half percent grace period, so if you come back and you've got to enter billion dollars parked overseas and if you bring that and we will only tax five half percent. it will generate eight enormous amount of revenue and if i am donald trump i think you bet, but before we let them use that they have to build their next plant, their next campus and lets colette-- what is joe biden's favorite? scranton, young stem, wisconsin because of the example i used of ann arbor. i went to law school in michigan and is a wonderful university town, but it's downtown is empty and worn out and run down. now, it's a light, a fire because five years ago google box 60 acres and moved their campus there and when you put google's second largest investor america into ann arbor, the whole town explodes with startups and service industries and young engineers and developers and all of that stuff. if you do that with facebook in a different state and apple in a different state and i saw that fox can't once to build a 7 billion-dollar flat screen production facility somewhere in the us. if i am president trump i, 25 to 50000 jobs depend on how big it is good jobs, hey, great you are going to build and scranton or you're not going to build it or not of the blue states because that's the blue wall coming down and that is light touch industrial policy. host: is a light touch because republicans complained about democrats wendy to interfere in private businesses in more ways than one. when president trump calls up a business owner and says it build it here or you are not building it anywhere is that really light touch? guest: yes. i'm from california and i have seen rick perry for the last 12 years coming to california like velcro fingers he totally comes in and steals businesses because his tax rate is good over here, so if we are going to lower the corporate tax rates and make a lot of money it is light touch to say i don't care where you build it, but you will build a campus here and by the way it would be great if you belted in one of the blue states that voted for me. abets light touch. host: i want to quote you to you , which for me is uncomfortable, but bear with us. you have a good line in here about the key of weakness. you say trump-- vice president pentz, speaker ryan, mature, if they governed in the key of we inclusivity, energetically, joyously celebrate freedom and prosperity markets are happy people. they want it and to the political carnage that goes back to the impeachment of bill clinton, quick dissolution of 911 unity, post- iraq hyper person attacks on president bush, the panic, the bailouts, the coercion of obamacare, the breaking of the filibuster and the nastiest and longest campaign in modern times i remember all of that as well. is trump the guy who can transcend this devices us versus them and as you say in viewer and usher in an era of goodwill? guest: it's not rhetorically in his wheelhouse. he's not a gifted order, but what he does, he went to an african-american church in the campaign. he didn't say much. he kind of sway the old white guy's way and i get that. if you show up you are saying a lot so i would like to see him show up in the inner-city, as show up in santa ana california which is probably more-- home to more mexicans in one place than any other city in concentrated form in the us. i live in orange county about 10 miles from there, so i would like to see him show up in communities that send a message of inclusiveness and i would like him to keep his twitter feist-- fight with the media. i don't mind him fighting with the media. hyman roth and the godfather, this is the business we have chosen. someone once to say to me on a national stage or low rated talk show host, lindsey graham never-- whenever he sees me he brings that up. that's okay. bite with us, delphi with americans who can't punch back. don't punch down. punch up. punch up at the networks, wall street, the russians, the syrians. don't punch americans and i think he-- if he does that he can hit the key of we. host: i got the trumpet twitter treatment as well. guest: did you? host: yes it's actually a badge of honor. guest: they don't like not being in that class. host: call me a loser. guest: you are a loser, im low rate. host: remarkable times. when did you decide trump was going to get your vote because i know you interviewed him more than a dozen times and i know you told him to quit the race at least once on twitter. where did you get to the place you said this is who i'm voting for. guest: the history is not interesting to anyone that me, but i was switzerland during the whole campaign. you have to be fair. when he won i said i am for you. i've always been for the republican nominee. he attacked the judge in a broadcast, a judge with stage four cancer and i said if you don't talk-- stop it it will kill you. i campaigned for him. we barnstormed for donald trump all through the summer. along comes the access hollywood video and i'm a practicing roman catholic and it's very disturbing for me and i also thought he would get wiped out, so i asked him to please withdraw. he did it withdraw, so my choices donald trump or hillary clinton. with the supreme court i said back in january before he was the nominee, some people boxed themselves invite being never trump and you end up having a binary choice, hillary or donald and i went with trump and when it came down to it i decided on that day of the election to vote for him. i said i would wait. i didn't want another access hollywood video the morning of the election, so i would not commit after that. i was burned. i thought they must have more. i was convinced they had more and people were dealing the russian dossier, but i did not believe that. all sorts of allegations were out there, so i wanted to wait. cost me $60 to go because i live in new york and california allows you to vote on the day up, but it has to be received within three days. i thought i could do it overnight, no, you have to do it by special delivery, so it cost me $68 to get my ballot sent me and send it back, but i voted for him. host: expensive exercise. guest: it was. i take it seriously. host: so, president trump as of this moment pretty abysmal approval numbers right now. in fact, record high disapproval for someone at this point in time. how does he began to turn that around? guest: he is doing effectively what you need to do, which is key promises on the floor we talked about and if he executes his numbers will rise. i saw them rise in the first week rather significantly, double-digit rise. people start to think maybe he isn't like every other politician that campaigns on a and then does b. if he does that alone it will get him 10%, just being who he said he would be. they went down under the election because he had some fights and that's helpful to him and he will figure that out. he's media savvy, but most of his problems come from the last segment about impeachment. put all of the history of impeachment into one chapter so it's-- what did mass and say, what at hamilton say, what did we do with andrew johnson, richard nixon and bill clinton because i think the democrats are setting him up to be impeached. if they get past the journey back. host: i'm glad you brought that up. we are jumping ahead, but before he was inaugurated democrats were talking about impeaching him and i went to read something you said, basically admitting that republicans have impeached our own before. we have done this in the past we will do it again if the country in the party needs it done and if the party needed it done they would do it. the gop has been tested before i did not fail. democrats did not convict there and impeached president. president trump who has become his time of authority so well with proposed appointments with not without controversy is not likely to casually-- he knows the history here and he will self regulate. all the respect. what are you on and can i have some? guest: what i am on is fred belding. host: i don't see a self regulated trump. explain what you mean by that. guest: self-regulating with-- before the election richard painter and a third academic put out an article with brookings same president trump will violate the clause on day one. now, i have been to be teaching law for 20 years and never ever did those words passed my lips. so, what you should do before you fire a way of an opinion i took off, it researched it came to the conclusion, no, it means connected with an office. that's what it means and gifts to mean something different. ben franklin received jewel encrusted snuffbox and had to ask congress-- they are afraid of bribes. then, i read and this is the self-regulation part, president trump hired don mccann, former fec commissioner and he immediately enlisted fred building, former counsel to president bush, president reagan and probably the smartest guy in town. went to have to with my business? what they came up with and i read the opinion carefully is self-regulating, which is to turn the business over so you are only aware of the bottom line of an individual transaction, but-- now you and i both know he owns turnberry. host: he went there during the campaign. guest: he would probably kill his kids if they sold turnberry because he loves turnberry. so if you see him talking about turnberry on ads he's doing bad things, but i believe he will avoid doing that accept in a humorous way host: what you mean by that? guest: he might make a joke. he might say you know, i shouldn't talk about going to turnberry. that's not a constitutional violation. host: you don't worry over the course of the next four years the conflict of interest story will follow him right or wrong at nausea? guest: i do worry it will follow him. host: such a complicated web. guest: if anyone gives anyone a bride he will be impeached especially if it's a democratic congress. he won't take a bride that. this is a smart developer who has used the law to his advantage he won't release his taxes even though he told me he would. that's baked into the cake. the american people heard it, sought, understood it and they voted for him anyway. that's not impeachable. no bribes and he will be fine. keep the kids away from having secret meetings and he will be fine. i do believe he will self regulate on the money. there's no need for him not to and if i am wrong i am wrong and we will know about it. there are legions out there trying to bring him down and i have had e-mail exchanges with his wife and i think she's very smart. i have not had any conversations with jared kershner, but i have read and seen his speeches. i don't know don junior or eric and i assume they are smart and more importantly donald trump did not fall off-- off of the fruit truck on the weighted town and make a billion dollars. he's successful and there is a reason. host: to your point the kids are lovely and smart. i'm going to shift gears a bit. i'm a gay rights supporter. in the book you explain why i shouldn't be worried about trump supreme court overturning gay marriage. explain that a bit to people who may be like me. guest: i had the longest conversation with my editor. i said people care about the decision upholding same sex marriage in all 50 states which was a five-four decision in the book i write i expected president trump gets one more point after this went from the left side of the core meaning and you can 82 so to mayor, roe v wade will be overturned. i believe that because it's bad law and it doesn't hold up to science when the unborn are actually cognitive and i believe it will be overturned to the states to regulate, not for bitten, but back to the states. if you read an opinion called citizens united, there is a concurring opinion in that case by the chief justice and i have known him for a long time. he's the smartest lawyer i have ever met and a wonderful guy and in the concurrence he explains here's the doctrine because they overturned a couple cases when they pass this. .. you would never overturn it because people have relied upon to the detriment and to their deep life-changing decision. they have gotten married have had children. even when prop eight was overturn i was little and easy about that in california because for a period of six or seven months people had gotten married and had children and i thought i'm a little uneasy overturning but it's only eight months. it was only one state and it was a bad decision. but now we've had three years, thousands, tens of thousands of people and got married, thousands of children are in same-sex couples in america has moved on. that churches have not moved on. they have been penalized. but i do not believe chief justice nor justice alito no justice thomas nor any conservative who understands the rule of law in the light would ever vote to overturn it. >> host: interesting. i believe the first president coming to office as a gay-rights supporter. >> guest: i think richard will be our ambassador to nato. i think that's the case. he is a good friend of mine. he and his partner, he's hell on wheels on the russians so you make a great ambassador to nato. he still is homophobic. i don't think he thinks the term applies to donald trump. >> host: i agree but i wonder if you will feel pressured maybe some people voted for him or other republicans in congress to act on that. >> guest: i meant evangelical roman catholic presbyterian. confusing thing, doesn't matter but i move in circles deeply conservative people, nobody wants to relitigate this. what did you want to be is left alone if you want to counsel people as i believe that intimacy is reserved for men and women who have been married. that's my understanding of what to say that, if i want to live that i ought to be left alone and is a difficult line in the interstate commerce clause between the baker, the candlestick maker and the photographer which wrecked werek out which has to do with what the fed to do because you are in commerce and what do not do because of artistic impression. let's all get along. rodney king. >> host: talk about the effect of the reed rule under trump and the democrats shot themselves in the foot about that. >> guest: thank you, harry reid. my hat is off to you. in 19, and 2005 bill frist then republican lead a distant threat to detonate the nuclear option. i was all for it because the filibuster was extraconstitutional. the city can make up its own rules and emit a visceral about filibusters a long. it got abused by the democrats under senator reed and patrick leahy. there were blocking john roberts and blocking the greatest miscarriage of justice not getting on the d.c. circuit. there were blocking david pryor from making on the way out of the appeals court. bill frist said will change the rules of the senate with a simple majority vote. everyone, a bunch republicans screwed around, they get seven democrats gang of eight, four and four. that gang of eight came out and they said were going to save the filibuster and approve this list of judges and so frist did not detonate the nuclear option. flash forward 2013 from democrats are frustrated because republicans had adopted the tactics and minority. they're not approving any judges to d.c. circuit which is statutorily at 11 judges at the time it only had seven. there were four vacant seat republicans not putting anyone all. they did want any liberals, the second most important corporate that controls regulatory state. so harry reid said i'm going to detonate the nuclear option and it's going to blow up everything. republican said you will be sorry, and he did. he change the rules of the senate with 51 votes. that's the reid rule. 51 votes. the role that they changed only applied according to harry reid to appeals courts, district courts and executive branch nominees. what matters more than anything is the rules of this interchange with 51 votes. that's the reid rule and you can't erase a precedent in a continuing body. >> host: did they think they're just going to be in power forever? >> guest: i thought about a lot. why why would you do that? is because they thought hillary would win, even if she did when they thought they would have the senate. no one thought we would take the senate back an 2014. we had to win six in 2014 and we did. then they looked at to the cycle and they said even if we lose the senate will get back the cycle and we barely held on to it. this was before trump. 2013 it's pretty donald trump but they were arrogant. everyone in washington who is arrogant ends up flat on the rear end. it's raining black swans. >> host: republicans were successful in 2010 and 2014, in part because they had an opposition and there was a lot of anger. people, frustration on the ground. how do republican, you know, the same enthusiasm for the next midterm target or not the same kind of people, or do they just stay home? >> guest: momentum. like the patriots. did you march in the women's march? >> host: i didn't. >> guest: my house in d.c. was full of people from california who came to march in the women's march and they are not radical leftists. they are centered and centerleft women who feel threatened by the trump administration in a vague sort of way. i read and "washington post" column about this, mike and debbie coming over to my house before the inauguration deeply distressed, anxious, losing sleep over donald trump. it's really cultural. he is jacksonian in his thunder pig is not lincoln like in his appeal to better angels, malice toward none. he's confrontational, a brawler, angry guy. i think the republicans have to be very careful if the energy shifted to the left. the women's march as were extraordinary. if people want to look past it and pretend it didn't happen like democrats you look past the tea party. we should not mistake that. that is a fundamental shift. we haven't happened -- since 1963 march. that's. that's a fundamental shift, 600 marches around the country, fifth avenue from 34th st. to trump tower completely blocked off and people coming in. those people are not going to stop and they're going to organize. redistricting plus number of counties trump took, the fundamental real limit of american politics should protect the republican majority. that's what democrats thought in 2006, in 2004. if a fundamentally they had redistrict themselves into a majority position and the war and president obama was delivering, they didn't understand the american consensus existed i'm not going to call left or right. an american consensus exists on a number of issues. one of them is immigration. there's a consensus we don't deport 11 million people. that's the american consensus. the american consensus is we built a fence, we have issued canadian. i think there is american consent an would you get off tht can't and we don't make people buy insurance that they don't want you. leave me alone. if i'm sitting in my room you are not allowed to tell me what to do. and you violate that consensus you risk review. if president trump violates that consensus on cultural matters, not policy but attitude, language, what we expect from a president which is intended. i don't mind the tweets again, but "access hollywood." that was what really brought out -- i haven't seen him do that any different now than when he was when he was billy bush. but if he isn't, that would mobilize and it would overwhelm republicans. part of 2010-1214 democrats stayed home. the republicans are not. if republicans get bummed out because kos doesn't do anything, who's going to be excited? >> host: or if they think they don't need to turn out. because things are so great and they can afford to sit home. >> guest: things can be great in two years. >> host: we are i in the street if you're a trump voter angela told by us for months and months and months you're never going to get your way, never going to be president, you might think look, we got away, things are going to be rocking and rolling and great. >> guest: there were some obama people, obama voters. >> host: compass in the white house. he doesn't need me to come out in two years. if i am trump and i'm the republican majority i worry about that. >> guest: there was a vote on the market turned up president obama in 2002 did not vote in 2010, came back in 2012 i did that 2012 and didn't come back in 2016. they were not into hillary but they were into him. he won't be on the ballot. but he will be better than president obama was asking him to come out. he will not be -- president obama is very complacent. even in this election under democrats think he went out there. he really didn't. he talks a lot about himself. he really did not, michelle obama was much better for secretary clinton and the president was. he talked about himself for everyone. he talked about handing on the ballot instead of why she was great. he's an interesting historical study. trump will not make that mistake that abominate. the president will be out there. >> host: you have to hope that senators and congressmen want him to come out for that. you have to hope that he positions himself that way. i didn't vote for donald trump. i'm proud of that but he's our president and i want them to succeed. i really do. i want the country to succeed. how can conservatives like me who didn't support him find ways to support him now without compromising the very principles that led us to not support him through the election? >> guest: a great question. pete weiner is a good friend of mine and he writes, he was a never trumpers and did not vote for the president and i just hope that pete is open to being wrong about what he can accomplish. i'm hoping he can accomplish a lot as well and that he works collaboratively. here's the two best things that it happened that would give you an pete and of the people who didn't vote for him hope. the first is he's working on the speaker right. i think the speaker, and mitch mcconnell, they've adopted a vision of 1600 if the estrogen place, not a person. so 1600 is going to execute. if you worked with us a legislation great and we're just going to not deal with the personality that donald trump, is jacksonian personality. >> host: they don't really comment on that. >> guest: that's okay. the second thing h you did and maybe the best thing he did is he wanted mitt romney for second estate. i'm a big mitt romney thin. i helped him write his speech and 2 20 robert i thought it wod make a great secretary of state. they have a sincere conversation. i believe it to be true. i don't think he was jerking him around. politically people understand said you can't have mitt romney. it will cause revolt. they persuaded. he went looking for second estate and to call the guy, robert gates, one of the great all-time americans, and robert gates comes to the trump tower, you ought to talk to rex tillerson. tell me about it. he's really good. boy scout, eagle scout, ran exxon, okay. passing in. he doesn't know rex tillerson. never met him but he hires him after he checks it out with condi rice and jim baker and all these people say yeah. and by the way, the undecided of energy under obama thinks rex tillerson is a good guy. all these people, so trump the businessman says i've got to run the state department you are the guy. and so that tells he is standing up vat. if i see a series of appointments like scott pruitt at epa. i know scott pruitt pretty well, and andy puzder i know pretty well. they are friends. these are great appointments. scott pruitt will bring the epa back to its regulatory appropriate place it will stop them from destroying growth in america. stop them for the extra leaves of grass of the power mccarthy, and lisa, i can remember her last name, out of control. they blew off congress and it is a rogue agency. rogue agency. he will shut that down. andy puzder will be the bill bennett this administration. he will be an evangelist for franchise. our goal aside, i heard him give a speech want and had them on the racial argue about how we invaded the franchise. there's a new movie called the founder of -- not a nice man but very effective. the franchise andy explained is the greatest engine for picking people with little means and turning them into wealthy people. give them and then they buy second and their work and work and what it's a grocery store or 7-11 or a hardee's or mcdonald's, they accumulate wealth assets that they can invest their time and labor in. andy puzder is so brilliantly evangelical on the stump for free enterprise. so donald trump, and nikki haley, indian american woman who'll stand up and talk about american values in south carolina will be dynamic. by the way i think jeff sessions, i worked for attorney general ed meese and bill smith. jeff sessions escorting the most qualified nominee that we've ever had having served as an assistant united states attorney, united states attorney, estates attorney attoy joseph orchard innocent on the judiciary. great appointment. i don't know the sg yet, solicitor general. associate attorney general, deputy, i know the rumors. if he stands up this team of rivals, i mean rick perry was arrival. i haven't seen bobby kindle on any list yet and some people are not into expected to be in. but he he stands up the a-team, i expect he will come around and say got his quirks but i'm quite hope he gets reelected if it's up against cory booker or the most talented person that right now is probably chris murphy from connecticut. i think he's a likely nominee. kamala harris from california, she's very talented. only two years, four years. obama didn't so maybe kemal harris can do it, too. she's she's very talented and smart. so if you have a hard left that will take the courts and the country in the opposite direction for say president you are still uneasy with them maybe they will convert you. >> host: it's funny. i love books like this that sort of rest with who we are as a movement and is a party and i've always thought that conservatism has been best when it made either and intellectual argument think i ran, those moments when those conservative populating manhattan cocktail parties, or an emotional argument and that was reagan. do you put trump in either one of those categories? >> guest: trump is this really. really. i quote this rate a lot. disraeli is a british prime minister in the 1800s who climbs the greasy pole and finally becomes come he's jewish, becomes anglicans we can be in politics and he is a myth of the party and he is nakedly ambitious. people never thought he believed a thing. they always thought disraeli was for disraeli. but they became the radical reformer, brought and a reform bill, understood there was to england's, more importantly he went to the congress of vienna and bismarck said they are all juden, the old jew mac pickiest penang. he orchestrated everything. he orchestrated everything and disraeli was nixon. went to work for him in 1978 san clemente, had me read lord blakes disraeli. best biography ever. if you understand disraeli you would get me and you'll get american politics. it's about party. i am a party guy. people think that's a dirty word. disraeli makes the argument nothing gets done without a party. a party cannot be small. a party has to be day. trump is on the liberal fringe of the republican party on ideology. so it's not where i am but he built a majority in congress. we had that briefing 2001. 200 2005 was the worst party yer ever. harriet miers, katrina and the war. the wonder we lost the majority. no wonder come it was the worst, whatever they say that is. i think trump might be a party guy 50 might just be a transformative figure for the republican party, and he can keep my junior friends and the republican party, democrats will not win for 50 years. >> host: we will talk about his administration and traditions have long been white house traditions. do you think the white house is going to change him, or that he will change the white house at the nature of that office as we've noted? >> guest: great question. president reagan never took off his coat. president nixon had a tape recorder. so there are different traditions are different republican presidents. george w. bush had six talkshow hosts. the last davis present i was honored to be among that which he asked us to go easy on the new guy because it was a hard job. any error of islamic terrorism and the proliferation of wmd or what president trump called the nuclear, it becomes, of course it must change you. the daily briefing has got to be as scary as hell. i've never been in one, and when i had my clearance as it was back before there was an islamic jihad that wanted to come and tell us if they could right now. so i think that will change anyone. vis-à-vis the world. and i think general mattis is the best appointment by far of all of them. he's a grand strategic thinker. i've only been in the room with him once. i'm sure you have done the hoover fellowship. they put you in the room with 30 journalists and the margin, general, now secretary mattis and he doesn't know. as you is blown away. just by breadth and depth of strategic vision, for structure, the needs of the service, said larry miller to just amazing. he's over at dod. i'm very comfortable. >> host: someone who served under him i read said he has a bearskin rug but that there is not dead. it's just afraid. >> guest: i hadn't heard that. >> host: ther there's some great stories. i'm also looking forward to seeing what he does. so if you are one of those people that visited you to do the women's march, and i are as well visit me in d.c., to participate even though i wasn't, what would you tell them is a reason to read the fourth way? this can't just be for conservatives. it's not. >> guest: the first chapter is about conservatives who built things, churches, local government who understand the needs of the poor, the halt, the blind the length and underclass. and i tried solutions. paul wright is a bleeding heart conservative t. anyone who's been random, he's a catholic social gospel packaged in a goofy midwestern hunting cap with a beard in november. he's a walking talking embodiment of what i believe in and what government should do. they don't believe it. my friends, they always say the funniest thing you probably get this, you are the nicest conservative. >> host: either you're the most normal. >> guest: actually we are legion and there's also a list that you, you just can't understand that talking had stuff in the green room and what is getting along and conservatives want for people to prosper we don't want them to be dependent we don't like crying. we at 700, donald trump keeps coming back to the period that is an astonishing number. chicago and we can in some neighborhoods, not the neighborhood i go to when i am in chicago or you could give it some neighborhood is freaking dangerous. parents walk the kids to school. if you go to the park at night they get shot and a 13. nobody wants that. what did you? rudy stopped in europe. my friend joy-ann reid tells me that they hate rudy. because of the methods he used and that he denies african-americans. well, i don't know if that's true. he won reelection. if donald trump takes the african-american vote from 8%, i think mitt romney got four and he got eight. if he takes it to tempt the democrats are dead. they are dead. easy shatters the african-american consensus that democrats must always win, democratic parties, and so the abovrepublican party might splie could be, three parties a lot of people written that. if you just avoid the clifford david brooks wrote on the first count as election he would be impeached within the year. i think that's crazy. he's not going to do that. he said the white house has some marvelous telephones. do you believe that? not trump tower but it's got some marvelous telephones. i think that is so trump like your we will be talking about, i'm 60 so i get another to score if i'm lucky. my grandfather went into 101, but just want to watch it all and see what historians say about him. on one level i can detach and just say the most interesting moment in american history but it's so dangerous abroad. >> host: i said the same thing that isn't this exciting to watch? even if i don't always like everything. this is an exciting time to be on the front lines of this as we are. last question. you are a democrat. what your prescription or if you have given a prescription to conservatives and to trump and paul ryan. what's your prescription to the democratic party? it seems to be there and a bit of an accident to crisis. they acknowledge the jv vote or they may have left past decade or two but also still want to seem to cling to their progressive, that's where the rockstar are come on the progressive wing. they are not in the middle. what does the democratic party do if you are like me, you want to start parties. that makes each better. what do you tell the? >> i'll tell you anything unless what a bully because they won't listen because i never trust democrats but i would have elected tim ryan the leader of the house. he's a graduate of my high school. we went to john f. kennedy high school in ohio and he is a centerleft democrat who evolved on trust and bring a pro-life catholic to be a pro reproductive rights catholic in the transition which is difficult for anyone who goes there because he wanted to be up there and his party. he might run for governor of ohio and he probably could win. he is extraordinary gifted. seth moran in massachusetts,, marine, hard-nosed, serious about foreign policy. if they go to these people are not -- >> host: they had the chance for tim ryan who also not just midwest and smart, was at dd. he's younger. and nancy pelosi instead says i know you want some younger midwestern talent, we will pick some for you. i just thought okay, they lost it if they didn't get it. >> guest: i'm told by something quite nancy pelosi got it to your ticket. a tool you want it which is you're out of your interviews. don't run again. and, of course, having chuck schumer is perfect from my perspective because he is new york. he is the machine and he knows donald trump. and how can he possibly object when the didn't confirm pompeo? he made a deal in the final report, it was obscured by trump, again the concert were too badly at the same time you can hear anything. president trump needs to be aware. some bad is about the democrats get out there and impeded. chuck schumer promise republicans vote for mike pompeo on friday so that he could go to the cia with depression as of the new director, and broke his word because ron wyden wouldn't play. tom cotton, from arkansas, future president i believe, got into a yelling match with him on the floor and chuck schumer said if you hear eight years ago you would know we didn't confirm this guy. tom cotton said eight years ago i got my shot at in afghanistan. don't tell me. you lie to me. that's a bad way for chuck schumer to start. it's very bad. i wanted to say self extracted, focus on small things, hyperbolic. let them go crazy on everything because then we will win. if you actually cooperate on obama to replacement is actually did they would do better. a lot of people like you and me. we don't want them dead. wounded for a while but restock. and then they can come back in a semi-normal status. >> do you think, i also witnessed the democratic freak out, the meltdown. do you think that will and? you keep, i keep wondering okay, it was election, that the -- let's give them a longer duration, many boycotts at inauguration and some arches. do you think will come prepared with democrats except that this, even people who didn't support trump on the right, except this the kind of just get to work? >> guest: you and i both work with and like van johnson. i got, in the course of the debate was at -- i spent a lot of time with impurity so smart, charismatic and wonderful. there's a temptation for van to go and for joint and for everyone who is a talking head lefty to go nuclear on trump all the time which is a gift applause online. so twitter amplifies everyone's harshest statements because if people don't agree they don't say anything. people agree, they cheer you on. so the application is a dangerous thing for the democrats and it's up to van and joy and other people on the left who are on tv. not their leaders. nobody listens to nancy pelosi as you said. you are just not listening. nobody cares what she said. but if van jones and other people make arguments to move to the center and be responsible, that's powerful. i could work. >> host: knowing van, and he's -- >> guest: we were watching when he does it. >> host: we have our eyes on you. thank you so much. "the fourth way" is a great read. i really enjoyed it. >> guest: than thank you so muc. great interview and i enjoyed it. >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979 c-span was created as a public service by america's cable-television companies and is brought to you today via cable or satellite provider. >> this is booktv on c-span2, television for serious readers. here's our prime time lineup. .. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good evening.