She is interviewed by california representative karen bass, the top democrat on the Foreign Affairs subcommittee on africa. Host i must tell you that i enjoyed every minute of reading the book. Guest thats the best thing you could say to me. Host absolutely. When theres a book you almost disappointed when it comes to the end. Thats exactly the way i felt in reading madame president. It was special to me because i certainly know president Johnson Sirleaf and i thought i knew about her past and all, but you went into such incredible detail about her rise, and it left me feeling what an unbelievable leaders she is, international leader. But it also made want to ask about you. I know this isnt her first book. Your first book is the house of sugar beach, right . Guest yes. Im from liberia, and just accept that you just said. I thought i knew a lot about her when i started researching for this book because i was alike. And i heard of or all of my life can even as littl as a little g. She was a political dissident. Once i started digging into it i was amazed at how much i didnt know. I am from library to pick my family was from the free my great great great grandfather, elijah johnson, was on the first ship of 88 freda freed black slaves in 1820. They ended up first in sierra leone and eventually ended up in liberia in 1822. Thats on my moms side. On my father side they were five cooper brothers that sailed from Norfolk Virginia in 182 1829, to liberia and thats where my dad side of the family comes from. Host. I grew up there and onld to the United States in 1980, but after a military coup coup in liberia, these were very brave and courageous but this is a very, very unbalanced antebellum society, things would society that flight from except this time they were the ones going over. This whole unbalanced system sort of explored in 1980 after after there was a military to. I have found those who are in the government who were targeted. My cousin he was minister of Foreign Affairs executed, by firing squad. Host we see in the book . Use of march the people out . Guest he is one of the 13 different interestingly, ellen Johnson Sirleaf at the time was minister of finance and there were 13 cabinet officials who were killed or choose one of the few who was not and wait for some reason what in the book as well. Host i had to joy that was one of the riveting scenes in the book. Because when you talk about wenches basically pretty much marched out that she was anticipating being executed because she knew what it happened and the way the people were crying to her to save them before they were marched out. She wasnt able to do that obviously, but that was one of the most captivating part of the book. I have to tell you that i think that the part of use history that people dont really know about. I like the way in the beginning of the book you described how it was a combination of forces. There were racists that one of the black folks to leave because they didnt want freed black people roaming around the United States, and then they were also the people who were supportive, who were abolitionists and a combined forces and that led to the first trip. I think the u. S. Population know so little about the slavery. , and as part of our history. We didnt know about but i do to take that i was disappointed to hear that our ancestors went back there and replicated, not completely the oppression they faced in the United States, but the way they treated the native liberians or the native africans because they were not liberia, was not very good. Guest it shows so much about the universality of the way we treat each other as human beings, treat each other. Our ancestors who went back there were, one of the good things they did was to outlaw, britain had outlawed the slave trade in west africa at that point, and they were very, very antislavery. Antislavery. Keep in mind that a lot of the native africans who met in there had been engaged in the slave trade. They were the people who are selling their brothers and sisters into slavery, and they were singing this way of life completely economic stem for them, eradicated. That was part of some attention between the two sides. You also had a lot of beliefs among these colonists that because, and this is we get into some of the racial complexity that library has been dealing with for almost 200 years now, a lot of these colonists were mixed race, children of white slave owners, women had these mixed race children and he wanted to get these children off of the plantation. And so these kids went back to africa thinking that, many of them thinking that because they had white blood they were therefore superior to some of the native africans. All of this, there is a tangle of race and class and the slave trade and all of that fed into the pot of what became liberia. Its such an interesting history. Its so wedded to the United States. Host let me ask you a question because in the beginning of the book you talk about the various tribes that were in conflict with each other before the africanamericans arrived, and then later in the book you talk about the tensions between the various sex. Where they still those original tribal differences . Like when taylor comes around and the people aligned with them . Guest some of it was in some of it wasnt. The crown people never like the others. That goes back a long way. A lot of these entities were massed when the freed american slaves arrived and then it just became native liberians versus the freed slaves. We called them the kongo people. The kongo country kitchen. Once that was ripped away then we sort of went back to a lot of tension between the different ethnic groups that a bin that they can with and then there were some that were created later on when the military coup was led by a guy who became president , and he elevated his tribe. He appointed them all to the high levels of the Library Office can just like other sedan in the past. Just different people. That angered a lot of the other tribes so you had a lot of this tribal warfare going on as well. That was one of the things that led to the civil war. Host you left when youre 14. You left in 1980. I wanted to know you could spend a bit describing life was like before . As a 14yearold maybe you saw some of the beginning to happen, the tensions and all. Maybe didnt. But what was life like for you in liberia before . Guest a lot of this is in my book, the house at sugarbeet. For me it was a completely normal african childhood except that i was sort of treated as low bit like a little princess, protected by my family. We were in a couple session of a class position so even though it is a terribly poor country of its protective wall that. I went to a really good school. My brother and my sisters. I played out in the yard. My parents i topic him we moved to the statehouse, a hous houset sugar beaches on the atlantic ocean, 22 rooms. I had my own bedroom for the first time in my life. I was scared to sleep by myself. My parents did what was right, elaborate the tiger they went out and got me a sister. Her mom i prefer to live with us because theres a chance to go to a better school. This is very common in liberia. Eunice and i will raise to get ancestors. Then when that trying to happen and are found was attacked, we ran away. Eunice didnt come with us. She chose not to come which is something i did was at the time. I came here thinking we just left her, but its a long, complicated story that a go into my first book that we were separated for 23 years and it wasnt until 2003, i didnt know didnt know she was alive. I went back and found her again. And sort of found my sister can. Thats what my whole first book was about, about going through, when the trench will happen in 1980 by fannie was attacked. My mom was gang raped by shoulders which he traded herself to protect me and eunice and my younger sister. We went through a lot and then came as immigrants. As refugees actually. Eventually got american citizenship but we get amnesty under the Ronald Reagan amnesty act in 1988. But a lot of it was, my childhood uprooting wa with her growing up as a liberian, my kind of life seizing under the 1980 coup and coming to the United States and trying to push the liberian part out of my life because all i wanted was to assemble it can be like everybody else. And then realizing years later that i needed this part of my life back. Host when did you first meet madame president . Whats she present or did you know before . Guest one before limit she had just become president. It was in 2006 when she came here for a big address, a joint session of congress. Ive known about her all my life because host what did you know . Guest she became famous, she was minister of finance in 1979 19819791980 when the coun but it time i was 14. She knew my parents, and so she was somebody that as a child growing up in liberia i heard of. She was always speaking truth to power virtually always criticizing the same government that she worked for. In 1985 when she was arrested and thrown into jail, i heard all about that. She became at the sense of a political icon. She was its really bad , said a bad word. Host i know what was coming. Guest angela davis afro, political fighting, talking truth to power pictures jailed and she wasnt going to ban anything to get her to take this senate seat. After she won, she is pretty stubborn time what i think a member seeing a picture her in your and reminded me of the six is actually when she gets out of prison. Wearing the tshirt that said something military. Guest she has the dreadlocks. Host ive known her for a few years and so i know as the elegant state woman. Guest you have met her. Its so hilarious because you matter. You know how when you first meet she comes across as so reserved. She seemed very standoffish. Then you put that together with host absolutely. I also imagine when youre talking about you knew her as minister of finance, wasnt she the only one that had a position that i in the country . Guest liberia, at the time she was collecting she was the only woman in a cabinet in 19791980. She was certainly the first woman to be in such a high position. But library has always been, its a very patriarchal place but theyve always been a handful of women up in higher levels of government. She was a female minister of finance. In 1979 that was a pretty big deal. Host a few things have sitting to me. I knew a little bit about her past internship work for the world bank, the imf. She was a harvard trained economist, and in the way she, you discover any book, that she systematically build those relationships with the International Finance community. And i wonder if she had it in her mind, you talk about in the very beginning she knew she was destined for something, but i wonder if she had in the back of her mind always that she would wind up being president. Because she strategically use those relationships to deal with that Death Library was facing. I dont think anyone else wouldve been able to have done that. Guest i dont think anyone else couldve gotten library is dead. 4. 7 billion in debt. Was about to be kicked out of the imf, was about, i mean, couldnt qualify for anything. The country was this post were apocalyptic mess at this point. Itd been through 15 years of civil war, 23 years of gross financial mismanagement, and the place was a rack. And because she had these International Context and she had this background, she is uniquely qualified to begin the process to get this debt forgiven. That was a big deal. I asked him many times winky to think youre going, when did you decide you wanted to run for president . Ive never gotten a good answer from her. Its something that he falls for her but i think it started a long time ago. I think it started back when she left her abusive husband. She was a victim of domestic abuse. She got married at 17. By the time she was 21 she had four boys under the age of four or five. She left them and came to the United States. She left them with her mother and her motherinlaw and came to the United States to get her associate degree. Then went back to library and started working for the ministry of finance. That was the moment pictures one of the very few handful of women working in the Debt Division for the ministry of finance in the 1960s. You can imagine this was a very maledominated area i think that sort of started back then. Her husband come ship fights with her husband and he was very abusive. She started an affair with another liberian man. Host that was pretty shocking. Pretty bold. He drove up to the house. Guest yeah, and she finally walked out and took control of her life in the middle 1960s, which women, you think think back to then, women didnt really do that. You sort of took it and took it and took it. She was pretty extraordinary from early, from the getgo. Host knowing how humble she is, she probably would not admit this guest shes not humble. No one who would run host every encounter ive had with her, shes so understated. I interacted with her numerous, because she comes to the u. S. , and shes no stranger on the hill. Most people know her, but shes always very understated given her stature and all. I think given all of her experience in the financial world, internationally, i dont know how she couldv could looke guys, whether you were talking about samuel doe or ten or any of and not guest idiot . Host thank you. I think that was the name of one of the chapters of the book. She called the president and immediate. Guest that was a different campus speech here in philadelphia. Then she went back, she and comprehensive we went back to liberia. As speeches so that we should call the military ticket of liberia and idiot and they were back to liberia and the two were in jail. Thats what happens when you call the president and idiot. Host do you think it weighed heavy on her initial support for taylor . Guest thats a big blemish in her reputation. When Charles Taylor first invaded liberia in 1989 right at the turn of 1989, 1990, she supported him. A lot of people who probably shouldve known better supported him at the time because they were so fed up with samuel doe. Host didnt the United States support him . Guest that cia helped busting out of jail. Looking at the people who initially supported taylor, we could be here all day. But, so she initially supported him and it wasnt until come it took eight months before became sort of company was clear and liberia that his forces were as bad as doe. But she took it, as it became known that he was, the people that hed unleashed on the country were easily as violent as he was, and they had unleashed rape and assault and murder on the civilian population, not only attacking the government soldiers but the liberian civilians as well and that is what it took for when Charles Taylor killed one of her close friends, for her to turn on you. She flipped on them but she still paying the price even to this day for the initial support. She said you know . He turned out to be a madman. She did help put them in power. Host but i wonder, too, and i dont member if he described in the book, what was the initial reason for it . They killed doe so what was the initial reason for attacking the people . It wasnt as though there was an uprising supporting doe unless i missed that. Guest those tribes still supported him. Thats what the whole civil war was about. Charles taylor invaded liberia in december of 1989, through the ivory coast and came over the border and there were so many people, the tribes had been attacked by the doe regime, the people who supported the other laboring guy who tried to attempt a coup in 1985. As doe brutally quelled at this effort and it got everybody in that tribe. So there were people who were very, very angry at doe and they are the ones who flock to taylor. But they all stayed and thats where you get this and thats what the whole, the actual civil war comes from. Whereas people getting killed because of the tribe that they belong to. And that was horrific and thats what started the whole liberia becambe convinced that the timer child soldiers. Both sides can government soldiers and the rebels, abducting the children of these women and turning them into child soldiers and raping the mothers in front of the children and then taking the children away. That was a truly horrific time for liberia. Host i was shocked to read about how the kids were drugged, was terrible. Switching gears and minute, thinking about the women, the market women, the women who organized. Guest they were my favorite. Host as i traveled throughout many african countries always see the market women. Trekkie they are ubiquitous, everywhere. Host knowing how they deliberately organize, and theres one part in the book where they are organizing separate from Johnson Sirleaf. She is going about doing a Tradition Campaign and theyre doing their own separate organizing. And then they essentially confront her pick of 1. In the capital, confront in a positive way and she becomes or emotional. I just wondered what you thought about that. Why didnt she recognize them in the beginning . Was it that she did want to be the woman president . She did want to be associated with the working women . What was the reason they organize heavily trafficked i dont think she did want to be the woman president , but i think theres some technocratic parts of the personality that kind of, they dont ruler, but this woman is in her heart a global bureaucrat who, she looks at things. She breaks down problems. She is not overemotional. She can be, there are times that she comes at things in a very bureaucratic way. When she was running for president she looked at this wasteland and thought this is a country that needs this and fat and fat, and im going to fix it. She thought she could win the presidency on her own merit just looking at presenting her walkers world host people looked at her like what . Meanwhile though, and she was aware of this, meanwhile there was this guerrilla, underground Guerrilla Campaign going on by these market women who had endured 15 years of horrific civil war that they thought was brought on by them in. They were not going to have that anymore. They wanted a femalepresident. They saw this woman, a harvard educated lobo bureaucratic she stood up to doe. They knew she was to begin with and the he thought she is our g, we are going after. Once she realized, she embraced that entire movement. Host another fascinating part was when they were praying and they could of an executed. I dont know, when the men drove up in tanks and they are praying in front of guest the men, all the soldiers, taylors fierce soldiers take this was in 2003 at the end, towards the end of the work where the women were so tired of war, they started paying for priest and many the men go to these peace talks. Theres the scene, and i talk to the women who were there, they were praying in the white tshirts at airfields in front of the boulevard and they been praying for days. They had been out there. Its a deeply religious country who believe in african religions and their traditions but were also a christian and a lot of muslims as well. Its a very religious place and they been praying and praying. Charles taylor Security Forces came with orders to shoot them. They are chambering rent in a machine gun at the women and women are just continuing to pray. They didnt get up. And then couldnt bring himself to shoot them. They walked away and that was a seminal moment. Host it was. Just like a seminal moment about her and he could have executed her. And so once she became president and then they were trying to clean up the streets, because the market women were creating a little bit of a problem. I wondered what happened. So the did create some booths where they could go to market in a better way. So did they ever assimilate to that . Guest its still a fight. During the war, everybody, the market women, i cant say enough about how the market women carried that country on their backs. During the war these with the women who went to walk to the border through all these rebel held territory. They endured attacks from these crazy men in hollowing masks, blonde wigs and wedding gowns. Host what was about . Guest it was all about magic. All about african magic in voodoo. They believed if they were this and that it would be, protect them from bullets. Generally but naked. We know how to do war in liberia. We do really interesting. General but naked brigade. They believe they will if they were naked they wouldnt get, a bullet wouldnt penetrate the body. It was all that kind of stuff. These womens with the ones who kept the economy, what economy there was, functioning and moving, and kept people fed and they kept, there protected their children the best that they could. The rate percentage was like 70 and they had the children of the rate this in the force. They put those children on the backs and went back to make the market. These are the women who sort of brought in many ways and into the war when they started demanding peace and praying and all of that. These of the women that galvanized behind ellen Johnson Sirleaf. They were her base, they counter elected. So many men, she was running against a Football Player. Host who is still running. Guest still running. This is a guy who didnt have a credible College Education versus a harvard educated global bureaucrat. All the young men were flocking to the Football Player and the women flock to her. They got in and he got elected and that turned out that there were merely one of her biggest headaches because he wanted to continue to make their markets industries which avoided been doing it in the past. Where she, ms. On the global bureaucrat comes as unicode to the markedly. Mark quinn should be in barclays and not on the side of the road. We need open up the road for development all of that. Theyre still on attention. Then she had her enforcer that she eventually had. Host she made a woman chief of police, right . Guest yes. And she got indicted for corruption. Liberia has been plagued by corruption for its entire history. Host so the women were not fully brought in . Guest they were brought in. That was just kee a bit when haa problem i went to her. Even she fall the mark when bishop also the biggest advocate. She established the market womens fund. She did a lot for them. Its that even i wouldnt call it a lovehate relationship. They are her biggest backers but theres always some political tension. Host i wondered about the market women when ebola hit, considering the pathway that ebola took. In the first case that you talk about, do you know what happened to the women . Guest the women were hit to julie, because women tend to be caregivers and at the ones, and ebola, the biggest tragedy in my mind of ebola is that it punishes you for caring about people. The people were killed by ebola or family members of people who got ebola or healthcare workers or healthcare givers, thats it. You are punished for helping people and those larger going to come its going to hit a lot of women that way. That was a big part of the whole tragedy of ebola but its also, liberians were able to pull themselves out of ebola. They were hit hard at the liberia was hit harder than sierra leone or guinea pig is a cut into, an urban setting. That was a big deal but liberia also got through quicker than at the two countries in part because of the women come in part because i think of madam president , ellen Johnson Sirleaf, who she had some huge missteps at the beginning of the ebola epidemic where she is what the rest of the country were in denial and did water for an investors and people were looking to develop liberia host negotiate the airlines coming. Guest you cant pretend there is no Health Epidemic going on. She didnt do well the first few months but she eventually got some sense not into a calm and then she spun into like you. At that point she got the whole country, and the whole country sort of, the country many ways pushed her on ebola. In large part because she allowed a lot of free speech. Theres a lot of criticism of her on the airwaves. Host what was the committee that she quarantined . Guest that was a big deal. There was a riot after that. It was just a lot of one misstep after another but eventually liberia and madam president got their act together and think that point the country did extraordinarily well while loggg itself out of it. Host i remember when she approached one indie book but a member when it happened when she approached president obama. I know its going to be, it was one of his incredible legacy the way he mobilized the entire world. She also was the one that approached him. Guest she wrote a letter to them. As a liberian, ive watched george bush in africa and i watched barack obama on africa. I have been so displayed with obama on africa leading up to that point. I thought bush is a much better on the continent that obama was. I almost felt as obama was Holding Africa hands off because he came in off the sink and president of the transamerica and he proved that when ebola happened i was interested in how he is going to react to this and doe wrote a letter and said you have to help us. You have the history. The french and the ritz will help the sierra leone ends but the United States has, i was tuesday whether he would respond or he responded in a huge way, like 3000 american troops, built 1700 host very controversial. Guest it was a really big deal. His response on ebola i think made up in my mind in many ways for what i thought was a weekish africa policy overall. Host i think he did do some Significant Initiative on africa but anything he did or said considering that he was accused of being a kenyan that snuck into the United States, it was definitely hard or him to have an association. So i want to do a couple of things. Did any of the Women Leaders, or rather hopefully all the Women Leaders five, the market women . Are in event still active . I guess i was hoping that one of them wouldve run for president considering liberia is right in the middle of a campaign right now. Guest women involved right now liberian politics is fabulous. Its already shaping into this, the Football Player is running again. His running mate now is Charles Taylors exwife and georges baby mama is also running, the woman hes had a baby with its also running for president against him host what is she an elected official . Guest no picture is a former model. Shes in the u. S. But looks like shes thrown her hat into the ring in liberia as well. I dont think i dont get the most a credible female at the top of the ticket, but we dont know, Election Campaign is like a twomonth campaign. We dont have ten years. Host thank goodness. Guest things really get going. You see a lot host it was interesting. I was reading and light green paper the other day to hear that Charles Taylor was calling. I did know he accessed to a phone but is actually calling guest i saw the report is a phone conversation with george. I dont know enough about that to know what hes in jail. Hes up for war crimes for life. Theres also another crazy story this is not the how hes going to be back in my view by the end of the year. My goodness. Thats a happening. Host going back again to earlier in the book when madam president receive the nobel prize, and also the tactics that the women use in terms of taking the voting cards away from the signs because it didnt want their sons to go vote for george. Tell me more about that especially the nobel prize first. Guest the women were so hellbent on getting a woman elected president. They were so fed up with the men that theyre going to do any way they could. The men play dirty and so the women were perfectly happy to play dirty as well. Ellen Johnson Sirleaf they found the person vehicle for that. Somebody with no qualms at all about flinging any dirt that the men fling at her with dirtier dirt. It was number thinks that supporters did. They bribed guys to give the voter id card so that when the men showed up they wouldnt be able to vote. All the young boys were voting for the Football Player. A lot of them, their moms stole their voter id cards so they couldnt vote. There were two rounds. The first front and the second rent a lot of young men didnt realize they would need to voter id card after the first ran to vote in the second rent. Thats how the women were able to get around that. Women were parked at bars upanddown the highway, saying give me your card for a cold beer. Give me your card for this. All this come at the polls women with pass the same baby around to give the women because you you were nursing mother, you could cut to the front of his ten hour lines and vote. They would pass the same baby around. There were all sorts of sneaky things. Then there was this, they dug up this video that george weah, the Football Player may come back when he is playing in italy for the Italian Soccer Team in which he appeared in a commercial butt naked in front of white women. That commercial they unearth this video. It was 14 years old and the producer drop the debt and bill of the liberian political scene. Liberia as i mentioned earlier as they would mix of bible spouting puritanism and deep racial anxieties. And having this video show up got the women en masse as i saw this as rejection of black women. Men were jealous. Either way it was a loser issue for george weah. There was a lot of stuff that they did to get ellen Johnson Sirleaf elected. Jumping from there now to the nobel. In 2011, whats really funny about this, the reason why you are conflating them is because the nobel him right in the middle of her reelection. The reElection Campaign. Shes running to get again running like george weah, the other tickets, other male president ial candidates running at the time, literally two weeks before election day and she gets the Nobel Peace Prize. The men went crazy. They were like, this is fixed. We cant believe it. Shshes in cahoots with the nobl peace prize community. She bribed them to do this. Like, and so they did something like, they were boycotting the election. For a liberia leader, this is a country that, the last president died in office or run out of town, convicted of war crimes. We are not a country that produces Nobel Peace Prize people. People were so shocked at the idea. They woke up that morning and its like, the president won a Nobel Peace Prize . Is it even possible . The election was basically over at that point. Host it was appropriate that she won because what was liberia before . There was no hint of war while she was president , right . Guest but she fought battles. Thats not easy to do because a lot of that tension that led to the civil war are still there. Shes done actually a really good job of keeping that at bay by bringing Charles Taylors people endure government, by trying to like trying to reach out to the opposition so that you dont have people who feel that they are so completely left out of the process. You have to remember, Charles Taylor was a horrible madman, in my opinion. There were a lot of people in liberia who still believe in them. Host why do they still all of his crimes were exposed to the world. They were horrific. Guest because they think the other side did worse. They think the doe people did worse and he was just fighting back. Not comparing that to her. Host but, i mean, i would think that after seeing the horrific crimes everybody you just mentioned, and indigo through how long was the term . Ten years . Guest 12 years. Host 12 years of summary is completely opposite. And the fact that taylor is still a force to be contended with. Weah is not associate with any of the crimes like that come easy treachery no. He was a Football Player during the war. He without one of the participants of the civil war. He wasnt there. He was playing football in europe. One of the things he does bring to the table is this idea that he come at a time when most liberians during the civil war were looking like crazy people on the news and all the world, it was his one liberian guy who was bringing honor to the country. He was african player of the century. He won an award and thats what a lot of his popularity comes from. Host hes a celebrity. Guest hes a celebrity. Host maybe we should warn the liberian people about celebrities. The African Women that all approached her in your chapter thats called the oracle, what happened with that . So the astor if she would essentially, because it was so excited, but i want to go back and be president and that was before president banda . Guest no. Where was it related to georgia banda questions run the same time. This is in 2013. I was was in for the meeting and. Host you were there for that meeting . Guest i was in the ring. 2013 i took Optical Research for the book. Were followed her around the flange wall. I was in the meeting with him for about an hour and a half as youre waiting for come. They are very, very quiet. They were all nervous. They were from mollie host who were they . Guest all aspiring African Women politicians. A couple of them were in office but a lot of them were women who want to go into politics. Some of them were in office but do want to know how she did it so they could take it back to their own countries. Organize their own grassroots movement. It was so cool to the industry with these beautiful women, all in the outfits, and then, but they were all so nervous and is very quiet in the room. I was sitting in the time to talk to some of them, but they were so jittery. Then she walked in and the room goes crazy. Its like beyonce walking in. It was like completely, just this rockstar in their eyes. Theyre coming to end a look at her sort of like the oracle of monrovia is coming to pay homage to find i did it and it wanted, she talked to them and she held at these sessions often. She still does this. She still does have women from all around the continent talk to her and she meets with them all the time. Host good. So they didnt guest she was talking about, talking to a high level politicians around the continent to see about forming an organization to back women. I think thats still in progress. Host thats great. What role do you think shes playing out in terms of the election . I know our Vice President is running and she supposedly backing him. Try to luke warm backing. Its like, yeah, shes technically shes backing him but she hasnt come out in any real way. Nobody really believes that she wants him to win. There was a conflict between the two of them were she basically told him, if you want to president im not going to do for you to get to go out and fight for the same way i did. Host that actually worries me a little bit because for her not to play a very aggressive role, when what looks like its going to be the opposition, which is tranfourteentaylor, the Football Player and the former wife of Charles Taylor, and i dont want to say just because, i matter, editor want to say just because she was his former wife, she was an excellent bit i dont buy with him at the height of his reign, is that correct or no . She was with him when she was with his wife. I dont know exactly when they split up. George taylor is in some i focus a lot of attention on, do you know if his followers follow her . Guest yeah. Host with a situation, and you just said a few minutes ago that the tensions from before, madam president mightve kept them at bay, but also seems as though they could explode again. Guest thats too. Dont assume that we weah is going to win. Theres a belief he has a feeling of support. Host this is the whole thing about democracy. One of the things that worries me in my role in congress, i meet with African Leaders often. And we as the United States have a policy that we want to see fair and free elections. It worries me sometimes that some countries might not be exactly ready. I know i am worried about what happens in liberia post madam president. And so if the Vice President is relatively weak and you have weah and taylor tragedy there are other candidates. Theres a former cocacola executive. He is probably the most similar to doe. Hes probably the one that use would most like to see win. Because hes got that same kind of International Finance background. I think hes a possibility but his issue is hes very americanized. Im not entirely sure. Im going to get in trouble fore next time i say this. This guys who to call me up and say stop saying that. Im not sure he can use liberian english. I want to him talk. Theres charles who is right in the past. He is been beaten by her before. All the characters from the past are all reassembled, ready to go at the starting gate. At this point we dont know who, there are all cast of characters who will become of this election is going to be come as a journalist, i think will be fast dating. Host will go back . Guest i want to. I want to go write about it but also kind of want to make fun of it and maybe i shouldnt do that. Host can you imagine, have you seen an election we have an ex couple running against each other . How do you even begin to write about that . Host exactly. Guest and they have a kid. Host lets hope its a small child. I do worry that because with a country that has made progress of member talking to you president Johnson Sirleaf and are telling me about how they didnt have the electricity infrastructure, that that had been destroyed. Thats like even hard for us to comprehend. Guest i was in liberia for christmas. They finally tur turned the ligs back on. After 26 years. During the civil war the dam was attacked and the lights went out. I talked to people who have not had electricity we cant even we have a power outage or for a few days. Even the rich and liberia can afford electricity still hoard electricity. Go into the average liberian sum, people have electricity and during the day theyre not going to lights on, it will not win anything. The refrigerator we turned off. They still run the freezer for three hours in the middle of the night and just enough to keep things kind of cold and medical back off again. This is the way the country is sort of lived for so long. You are just getting this infrastructure back. Youre right, theres a lot of reasons to be worried about the end of this term when we seem sort of 12 years of relative calm. But i think theres also plenty of reasons for hope. I think one of the things that she has done that i think is going to be hard to turn back is freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Liberians have now gotten used to the fact they can go on the radio and they can call the president , call her and eat if they want. She will not throw them in jail. And they do. Routinely. They call her every name in the book and they are so used to that, that its hard to imagine they will tolerate being tossed back into repressive regime. I think its become so ingrained now in the liberian character that they have the freedom to speak that they never had before. Host do you think if she had a third term that she would win . Guest i think if she ran again, i think you would. Host what you think the future holds guest let me make a point that that is huge. You deal with [talking over each other] these are guys that event and offers 30, 40, 50 years. African president s, than me into mondays african countries countries do not step down until you put a gun to their head. The idea that the first woman elected president of an african country served for two years and in steps down is a huge, huge thing. Never for the first time in liberia were going to have example of a post president we have never had that before. Host i had the honor of being with her in january inauguration of the present one one thing she did that was incredible in african history is when the president of the gambia changed his mind, first he conceded when he lost his election, any changes might decide to stay, and she was in charge of the west african region and she went over there and basically said either used up that we will come get you. Guest than the organized, and they went in. We are making progress. I think we making better progress than the rest of the continent. Its the point that we have far better come with this eastwest like fight but our food is way better. Our culture rocks. Our clothes are better. We have better books, better art, better exotic animals. Host what you think the future holds . What does madam president do next . Guest i think you privacy a lot of her on the speech circuit. She said shes going to retire but i dont believe that. I dont think shes going to be quiet. She 78 but she still has a lot, in enormous amount of vigor. Ive been following her around for this book, i was exhausted. Finally hit, we went on these upcountry tours and we finally get back to where were staying for the night at 2 oclock and more and should should be ready for interview. Unlike, ive got to sleep. Host well, i just think she is such an incredible role model, and again, having interacted with her a lot over the last seven years, my 70 in congress, and to see her as being very understated but extremely powerful at the same time. I only wish that it wouldve been in congress when she addressed company, thats the first, no, nelson mandela. Guest and another liberian president has done that. Host he did . Guest of the big deal. Back in the 70s. And liberia has always been americas biggest ally. Even though we are tiny bit but he addressed congress but it was a big deal for ellen Johnson Sirleaf to do. She had the Junior League pearls and the headrest and the whole outfit. She can do liberian english and american english and go back and forth. She wrapped herself up an american cloak and delivered this very americanized type speech. She thanked congress for all theyve done. This is the same congress the wall street journal just called a donothing congress. You guys brought peace for liberia and all that. It was a huge political triumph for. Host was it during the time that lead up a load to a speaker and she was brought in speaker pelosi. She was brought in by pelosi and cheney wasnt there. Ive watched that video again and again. I remember barack obama at the time, john boehner was walking down the aisle, ellen Johnson Sirleaf, and nancy pelosi was right there as well. They were escorting her in to the chamber. So theyre coming down the aisle. Theyre stopping and talking everybody, members on both sides are shaking his. And theres a moment where she gets up towards the front and barack obama who at that time was the junior senator from chicago standing there. John boehner just disappear. Its like hes not nancy pelosi comes rent and introduced her to senator obama and that was the first time she met barack obama. Hillary clinton wasnt there, Joe Biden Biden pick it was like, and she is very good at playing congress. She was praying on the phone with chris coons delaware. She does a lot of the homework. Host you mentioned the tiptapes i want to see that dat. Guest i wasnt there. I thought you talk about george weah naked tape. Host no. I would love to see her, you know, give that speech and imagined that in congress. That mustve been a very great exciting time trying to a cool scene. A really cool scene. Host absolutely. It will be very interesting to see what she does next and i like that she told me shes going to be on the speaker circuit. Maybe i will see both on the speaker circuit. Guest i most other plugging this or that, but ive been really enjoying, i really enjoyed working on the book and it would now because it took me four years to write and you get to the point where its a labor of love. Its also this, and now im like okay, im still working at the new times, my day jus job, whati do now at 4 a. M. . Host its a wonderful book to read. It was a great contribution, and i really appreciate having the opportunity to read the book and to have a conversation with the author. Guest this has been so fun. Thank you so much. Host thank you. Cspan, where history unfolds a daily. In 1979 cspan was created as a Public Service by americas cabletelevision companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. Is this the best of times to be living in . From a Global Health perspective. We think the answer to that is pretty simple. It depends on where you are living. One statistic that its got a lot of attention recently partly because bill gates has spoken about and tweeted about it is that from 20002015 annual child deaths declined from 10 million per annum the 6 million per anna. That is extraordinary. We still lose 6 million children a year. We lose when building shown on the date of the birth and 1 million more in the first week of life. So while if you just kind of think about, goodness, theres been a 40 to clinton isnt that extraordinary . Yes. But as mothers of two small children, i dont want to be on the other side of that statistic. We dont think anyone should be. So while we still have enormous work to do, we also do recognize that the world has made real progress. To end on a slightly more optimistic note, we concludeour book with the lessons the global polio eradication initiative. Started in 1988, a real coordinated effort catalyzed by the w. H. O. But in partnership with a number of other institutions, both funders and kind on the ground partners. It is i think at this moment in time easy to focus on the fact that we still have polio cases in the world despite almost 30 years of concerted effort. But over those 30 years more than 3 billion show have been vaccinated against polio, more than 20 million volunteers have been mobilized and the work has taken place in more than 130 countries. So that is fairly extraordinary. So yes, we have work to do, but we think the moral imperative is to go on because we approve what can happen when we do focus and mobilize appropriately. You can watch this and other programs online at booktv. Org